Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 13253400 times)

Slow&Steady

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 698
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20550 on: July 27, 2018, 09:25:15 AM »
There is a gentleman that is in the office next to me and rumor has spread that he will be leaving in December, and not to a new job.  He looks to me to be in his 50s, maybe early 50s.  I of course think this is an awesome sign of FIRE but am not sure because he is a very private guy. 

Most of my other coworkers are completely baffled by this.  I have heard that some of them even made fun of him when he started working here because he brings his lunch everyday and uses washable dishes to eat his lunch. 

I am dying to ask him if he is retiring early and give him a huge congrats but he is so private that I am pretty sure that would be too much for him.   
What've you got to lose?  I'd *love* to hear if he's secretly built up a stache.

His manager confirmed that he was retiring today during lunch, the speculation is that he is 57 (I think he looks closer to 50).  I believe his manager is older than him, managers statement was "Yes ___ is retiring at the end of the year, some people save money better than others".

Here is your script:

Slow&Steady: "Hello Co-worker X, congratulations on your retirement.  BTW, what is your mustache code-name?"
Co-Worker X: Either
A.) Puzzled look, scurries away without response.
or
B.) "I'm so glad you asked, my MMM forum handle is SuperSecretStealthMustachedNinja." And you have a new friend for life!

Apparently I am allowed to know this now, co-worker is retiring at 55!  I told him "Good job, I have heard a lot of people say you are lucky.  I know it isn't luck it was work, congrats!"

Pretty sure he is not on MMM, he is planning to use 72t but did not know that he is allowed to pull his Roth contributions (not earnings) without penalty.

CptCool

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20551 on: July 27, 2018, 12:56:16 PM »
Had a weird Anti-Mustachian/Lazy-ass person encounter at work yesterday.  Was doing a small construction project in the parking lot of a busy little shopping centre.  I noticed that the area I coned-off (2 parking spaces, now full of tools and supplies) kept collecting empty shopping carts when I wasn't looking, which I would then have to put away because they were in my way.  8 or 10 moved carts later I had the pleasure of watching it in action.  A lady parked next to the area I was working (in an old Dodge Durango, figures) and walked into the liquor store, 10 min later she came out with a shopping cart of booze and loaded it into the back of the Durango and left the cart in my area and proceeded to go into the grocery store, of course 10 min later she comes out with ANOTHER cart, loads her stuff into the Durango Dump Truck and leaves her second cart next to her other one right in my way.  Thanks lady.  So I went up to her and said "Hi, do you mind putting the carts back, because otherwise I have to do it and I've already had to move like 8 or 10 carts out of my way today". She didn't say anything but moved the liquor store cart all of like 30' back to where it belongs and then proceeded to take a 10 min smoke break.  She then got in the Dump Truck and drove off without putting away the second cart when I was off in another area.  I hate people.

Next time keep some zip ties handy and tie it to their door handle

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9918
  • Registered member
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20552 on: July 27, 2018, 01:51:16 PM »
Had a weird Anti-Mustachian/Lazy-ass person encounter at work yesterday.  Was doing a small construction project in the parking lot of a busy little shopping centre.  I noticed that the area I coned-off (2 parking spaces, now full of tools and supplies) kept collecting empty shopping carts when I wasn't looking, which I would then have to put away because they were in my way.  8 or 10 moved carts later I had the pleasure of watching it in action.  A lady parked next to the area I was working (in an old Dodge Durango, figures) and walked into the liquor store, 10 min later she came out with a shopping cart of booze and loaded it into the back of the Durango and left the cart in my area and proceeded to go into the grocery store, of course 10 min later she comes out with ANOTHER cart, loads her stuff into the Durango Dump Truck and leaves her second cart next to her other one right in my way.  Thanks lady.  So I went up to her and said "Hi, do you mind putting the carts back, because otherwise I have to do it and I've already had to move like 8 or 10 carts out of my way today". She didn't say anything but moved the liquor store cart all of like 30' back to where it belongs and then proceeded to take a 10 min smoke break.  She then got in the Dump Truck and drove off without putting away the second cart when I was off in another area.  I hate people.

People not putting their carts away kills me. More than once I've given someone shit for leaving their cart either free in the parking lot or next to the cart storage area inside (like, in the lobby but not slid into the back of the next cart). Seriously, how much energy does it take to neatly put your cart back in the bullpen?

Totally a pet peeve.  I only saw it happen once and I definitely gave some some shit but it was ineffective.  Lady played dumb... like oh do you want the cart?  No, just don't leave it in a friggin parking space.  I think they should bring back the cart deposits.

FIRE@50

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 553
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20553 on: July 27, 2018, 01:55:18 PM »
Shop at Aldi

10dollarsatatime

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 703
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Utah
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20554 on: July 27, 2018, 03:29:14 PM »
Background:  Employee from another department is retiring.  He's worked here FOREVER.

Conversation had during my department's staff meeting:

Boss: Guy is retiring.  His reception is Wednesday.  ... I didn't think he was old enough to retire.
CW:  He's not 65.  I've known him forever.
Boss:  You can't retire before 65.
Me:  That's not necessarily true, boss.
Boss:  I guess you can start collecting your pension at 62.
CW:  I think he's only 58.
Boss:  I wonder why he's retiring?
CW:  He's got 30 years.
Boss:  But his pension doesn't kick in for at least 4 more years.
Me:  He probably saved $$ in his 457, so he can bridge the gap.  That's basically why that account exists.
Boss: ...

Boss turns 65 in a couple of years.  I'm not convinced he'll retire then.  He has some silly ideas when it comes to money.

Lyngi

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 219
  • Age: 54
  • Location: USA
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20555 on: July 27, 2018, 10:05:27 PM »
       Had a conversation with a coworker(1) today.  Back during the housing crisis CW1 was in the process of buying a big, beautiful house.  We got to see pictures of it and I was so envious, it was amazing and perfect.   We have the same position and so made the same amount of money.  I just couldn't figure out what was wrong with me.  Why couldn't I find such a great house to buy.   Fast forward 10 or so years and I just found out that coworker has lost that big house and a lot more. The large income came with a large lifestyle creep that was unsustainable. 
      Later on the coworkers in my group were talking about CW1's situation and were very surprised.  CW1 was working a lot and was making a lot of money.  I told them how I had coveted the house and how I thought I was doing something wrong. 

Coworker G said, "NO, you were doing something right! And your house is paid off"
Coworker M jokingly said, "You must be a millionaire." 
Me, "Why yes. Yes I am"

CW1's story is tragic.  You just don't know what is going on with the Joneses and life is not a competition.



LennStar

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3672
  • Location: Germany
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20556 on: July 28, 2018, 12:30:06 AM »
Talking about housing bubble, this one looks like it is over. Just read yesterday that all numbers (price increase, amount of houses bought etc). are suddenly at a long time low.
Together with the other little things it may be the first real sign of the next crash.

Exited?

merula

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1609
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20557 on: July 28, 2018, 06:21:44 AM »
Talking about housing bubble, this one looks like it is over. Just read yesterday that all numbers (price increase, amount of houses bought etc). are suddenly at a long time low.
Together with the other little things it may be the first real sign of the next crash.

Exited?

Is that nationally or in a particular market?

LennStar

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3672
  • Location: Germany
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20558 on: July 28, 2018, 10:13:47 AM »
Talking about housing bubble, this one looks like it is over. Just read yesterday that all numbers (price increase, amount of houses bought etc). are suddenly at a long time low.
Together with the other little things it may be the first real sign of the next crash.

Exited?

Is that nationally or in a particular market?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-26/american-housing-market-is-showing-signs-of-running-out-of-steam

tralfamadorian

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20559 on: July 28, 2018, 11:23:04 AM »
Talking about housing bubble, this one looks like it is over. Just read yesterday that all numbers (price increase, amount of houses bought etc). are suddenly at a long time low.
Together with the other little things it may be the first real sign of the next crash.

Exited?

Is that nationally or in a particular market?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-26/american-housing-market-is-showing-signs-of-running-out-of-steam

I'm on the online newsletter lists for a bunch of realtors in my farm markets. Most of full of shit but a couple have proven to be unicorns and are honest with what they believe to be happening in their markets. Both have called what they believe to be the start of the slowdown though the statistics do not bear that out yet. One's reasoning was that he was seeing a bunch of buyer's agent bonuses popping up- mostly $5k with a couple $10k- and a free cruise for a completed purchase for a buyer. Both the $10k agent bonus and the silly buyer's carrots, he had not seen since 2007.

Kyle Schuant

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1314
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20560 on: July 28, 2018, 03:54:51 PM »
The market slowdown is happening in Australia, too. Interest rates are finally creeping back up, but also there's been a banking royal commission which has exposed a lot of dodgy behaviour from the banks, so that many of them are tightening things up in anticipation of more regulatory oversight in the future.

I don't see the market crashing here, like prices halving in a year or two or something. So long as an economy is growing generally, there is spare cash floating around to invest. In a manufacturing economy this cash can go to investing in manufacturing businesses, but because of the free market workers in Australia have to compete with unpaid child labour in the Congo (coltan mining) or widget makers on $5 a day locked in their dormitories at night in China, so mining is hugely automated and manufacturing fizzling out here. We have a service economy, and that does need investment, but since a factory plant costs more to set up than a restaurant or gym or office, there's just not the same need for capital investment in a service economy as there is in a manufacturing one. So where does the spare cash go? Real estate.

Obviously rising interest rates will mean less spare cash floating around, both since fewer people will borrow and more will be inclined to just save their cash. But ultimately Australia's population is growing, so unless more of us do house-sharing the demand for more housing will remain, and there's not really anywhere else for people to put spare cash except savings accounts. Unless of course they send their money overseas...

So I see prices levelling out and dropping a bit, but not crashing. The only prospect of a crash is if there's a general recession. But in that case we have other problems regardless of house prices.

Raymond Reddington

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 200
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: NYC
  • "The Concierge of Cash"
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20561 on: July 28, 2018, 04:41:22 PM »
I don't see a crash here either. I see stagnation in overprice markets, and lenders' (and regulators') reactions to that stagnation will determine where we go from here. If the market is allowed to run wild trying to get real estate activity back to "normal" levels, then the risky behavior that precedes a crash will undoubtedly return within 5 years of the start of that behavior. If regulators and lenders generally leave things alone, we will see negative growth in saturated markets, and a slightly higher than offsetting growth in underappreciated markets that will maintain slow positive growth in median prices overall, which may actually lag inflation enough to be significant enough to encourage more homeownership over time. Of course, what's going to be interesting is when the big bomb hits, which is the upcoming deaths of millions of baby boomers creating a glut of inherited homes/supply which will likely loosen things up in the next 10-30 years...especially if many outlive their retirement savings as predicted and have to take reverse mortgages.

Kyle Schuant

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1314
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20562 on: July 28, 2018, 06:08:20 PM »
Immigration is the other aspect, Raymond. If both the US and Australia continue to have lots of migration, particularly skilled migration, that helps keep demand for (purchased) housing high despite the boomers dropping off.

More significant would be any change in expectations. One of the reasons for the change in price which people don't talk about much is size of house and household. In 1950 the average new house in Australia was 100m2 with 3.6 people, now it's 231m2 with 2.6 people. So we've gone from 28 to 89m2 per person. So while house prices relative to income have doubled, house sizes and area per person have more than doubled.

If people changed to wanting smaller places then prices could drop somewhat; but again, they wouldn't crash, since such cultural changes tend to be slow and owners would raise prices to compensate, so for example here in Australia the house on the "quarter-acre block" (usually in fact 600-800m2) is often subdivided into 3 dwellings, but these 3 dwellings are each 2/3 the price of the old one, not 1/3.

bklyncyclist

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20563 on: July 28, 2018, 08:00:24 PM »
Had dinner with a family friend.

I have never heard this particular reason for not contributing a single $ into any retirement accounts. Or to think of it, any accounts.
The plan is to end up penniless... by design... to qualify for Medicaid.
He is 55 with 0 retirement savings and no net worth to speak of.

I was so shocked, I didn't have a response.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 08:40:57 PM by bklyncyclist »

Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7408
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20564 on: July 28, 2018, 08:14:52 PM »
Had dinner with a family friend.

I have never heard this particular reason for not contributing a single $ into any retirement accounts. Or to think of it, any accounts.
The plan is to end up penniless... by design... to qualify for Medicare.
He is 55 with 0 retirement savings and no net worth to speak of.

I was so shocked, I didn't have a response.

Are you sure he said Medicare? Not Medicaid? Because if he said Medicare, and meant Medicare, then he's got much bigger issues. Like lack of general intelligence.

bklyncyclist

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20565 on: July 28, 2018, 08:33:59 PM »
Correction... He did say Medicaid...
Thank you Sibley for pointing out the error.

Primm

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Age: 55
  • Location: Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20566 on: July 29, 2018, 07:38:27 AM »
Today outside the supermarket with my two kids we got bailed up by a nice young woman selling for a company called Eat Fresh, or something. Apparently, they send you a box with a week's worth of food chopped up and ready to go in the pan and a sheet with a recipe on it. In this way you get to pay more for fresh food and recipes than you would normally, but unlike paying more at a restaurant you still have to cook and do the dishes afterwards.

People do apparently sign up for it.

Hello Fresh. It doesn't come chopped up either, you have to do that yourself.

I've used it twice. The first time I got a free delivery courtesy of a friend who signed up (clearly not Mustachian). It was ok I guess, but not really my thing. I made sure I cancelled before the second week, and removed my card details from the system.

So then my email was in the system, and after a month or so I started getting the discount offers. I got the second box when it was down to "Hey, try us again for $20 for a week's worth of groceries!"

So the two boxes (both made 5 dinners for 2 people) cost me a grand total of $20. Averaging $2 per meal per person, which quite frankly I can do myself at a stretch and with sale products from Aldi, and the herbs didn't last very long, definitely not the full week.

I don't get why people pay full price (I think from memory it was something like $79?) for this either.

Kyle Schuant

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1314
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20567 on: July 29, 2018, 06:59:05 PM »
They don't even chop it up for you? So it's just a recipe and the ingredients for it which you can get at any greengrocer, butcher or supermarket?


Wow, the things people will pay for.

talltexan

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5344
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20568 on: July 30, 2018, 07:51:20 AM »
Yep I've figured it out.  He's addicted to Pule cheese: made from the milk of Balkan donkeys from Serbia.  About $600/lb.

Isn't that the stuff where the tennis player Novak Djokovic basically bought every farm that makes it? So you're paying such a high price because a rich tennis star controls the entire world supply?

SteadyDoinIt

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 53
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20569 on: July 30, 2018, 09:54:50 AM »
Coworker talking about his new car purchase this weekend:

1) while in the finance office: "I just finished figuring out how I'm going to afford this car, and now they started talking to me about how they're adding all of these warranties. I can't afford it with all of that!"
2) also in the finance office: "So I told them, 'if you give me 6% apr, I'll take it.'"
3) "I'm just going to refinance it and hopefully get 5.5%"
4) "But we love the car though. It's so great. We think we want to go camping more often since we have it."

High comedy on a Monday morning!

Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7408
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20570 on: July 30, 2018, 11:35:38 AM »
Coworker talking about his new car purchase this weekend:

1) while in the finance office: "I just finished figuring out how I'm going to afford this car, and now they started talking to me about how they're adding all of these warranties. I can't afford it with all of that!"
2) also in the finance office: "So I told them, 'if you give me 6% apr, I'll take it.'"
3) "I'm just going to refinance it and hopefully get 5.5%"
4) "But we love the car though. It's so great. We think we want to go camping more often since we have it."

High comedy on a Monday morning!

Your coworker is making my brain hurt.

Uturn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 889
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20571 on: July 30, 2018, 01:57:38 PM »

2) also in the finance office: "So I told them, 'if you give me 6% apr, I'll take it.'"
3) "I'm just going to refinance it and hopefully get 5.5%"

I do not miss the days of buying cars on credit and having to play this game.  Hoping my credit and debt to income ratio was good enough to please the banker. 

tungsten

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20572 on: July 30, 2018, 06:24:18 PM »
Not at work but from a housemate about work:

My housemate Bill is living in our house for free because he does some work for the landlord on the side, but otherwise has nothing saved and has had no real job or other income for a long time.  Recently he got a job driving a water truck around a construction site all day spraying water to mitigate the dust. "That's great!" I said.  He was really excited about it, and I was happy for him to maybe turn his life around.  About 4 days later he's identified a critical problem with the job; "it's boring" he says.  His solution? "I'm just going to get really stoned everyday WHILE driving the truck."  Not a surprise since he's kind of a wake and bake kind of person, but after that it made it really hard for me to be sympathetic to his situation.  Geez man, how about listening to podcasts or something? 

draculawyer

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20573 on: July 30, 2018, 07:14:09 PM »
Wow. I remember when a HS classmate posted on FB a while back about how her law school debt was finally under six figures.
I was floored at the time at that level of student debt. Four times that? I don’t even have words.

That actually includes her house, her husband's student loans from undergrad, and her remaining law school loans. Law school costs up to $250k, I believe.

Kyle Schuant

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1314
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20574 on: July 30, 2018, 08:05:28 PM »
The median Australian household income is now AUD79,160. Apparently, this means life is a huge struggle.


Also, women are less financially literate than men, and unsurprisingly,


"The survey found that the poverty rate among the least financially literate group is more than twice the poverty rate among the most-literate group."

Education is important.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 08:34:47 PM by Kyle Schuant »

nnls

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: Perth, AU
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20575 on: July 30, 2018, 09:47:50 PM »
The median Australian household income is now AUD79,160. Apparently, this means life is a huge struggle.


Also, women are less financially literate than men, and unsurprisingly,


"The survey found that the poverty rate among the least financially literate group is more than twice the poverty rate among the most-literate group."

Education is important.

it worried me people couldnt answer those questions, most were basic maths

LennStar

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3672
  • Location: Germany
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20576 on: July 31, 2018, 05:48:06 AM »
The median Australian household income is now AUD79,160. Apparently, this means life is a huge struggle.


Also, women are less financially literate than men, and unsurprisingly,


"The survey found that the poverty rate among the least financially literate group is more than twice the poverty rate among the most-literate group."

Education is important.

it worried me people couldnt answer those questions, most were basic maths

To be fair, most of those questions are extremely simplyfying and as such, if you take them without guessing the intention, must be answered "wrong".

Quote
Suppose that by the year 2020 your income has doubled, but the prices of all of the things you buy have also doubled. In 2020, will you be able to buy more than today, exactly the same as today, or less than today with your income?

Since the "things I buy" are only 20% of my income, I can buy a lot more then. But I dont think a "more" would be counted as correct right?

The most important think for any questionaire are the questions, and they seldom are good.

Davnasty

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2793
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20577 on: July 31, 2018, 07:44:13 AM »
The median Australian household income is now AUD79,160. Apparently, this means life is a huge struggle.


Also, women are less financially literate than men, and unsurprisingly,


"The survey found that the poverty rate among the least financially literate group is more than twice the poverty rate among the most-literate group."

Education is important.

it worried me people couldnt answer those questions, most were basic maths

To be fair, most of those questions are extremely simplyfying and as such, if you take them without guessing the intention, must be answered "wrong".

Quote
Suppose that by the year 2020 your income has doubled, but the prices of all of the things you buy have also doubled. In 2020, will you be able to buy more than today, exactly the same as today, or less than today with your income?

Since the "things I buy" are only 20% of my income, I can buy a lot more then. But I dont think a "more" would be counted as correct right?

The most important think for any questionaire are the questions, and they seldom are good.

I don't see how you're coming up with more. Are you considering future savings or perhaps the fact that you could spend more now if you wanted to?

The wording is "will you be able to buy more". I don't read it as relating to actual spend.

On the other hand, I wonder if #3 was missed more than the other questions; I don't think that necessarily equates to financial illiteracy. Diversification of investments does seem fairly basic but it's also not simple math.

Just Joe

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6693
  • Location: In the middle....
  • Teach me something.
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20578 on: July 31, 2018, 07:46:36 AM »

2) also in the finance office: "So I told them, 'if you give me 6% apr, I'll take it.'"
3) "I'm just going to refinance it and hopefully get 5.5%"

I do not miss the days of buying cars on credit and having to play this game.  Hoping my credit and debt to income ratio was good enough to please the banker.

I have zero interest in ever negotiating the price of a new(er) car again. What the best "out the door price"? I'm not negotiating. I have my own financing. No trade-in. Tell the dealer they have half an hour before we walk out the door.

Or just skip it all and get the financing through your bank or credit union. Last time we bought a car with financing I called the credit union, they readied the paperwork over the phone and I stopped by to sign it and picked up the check.

And buy from some place like CarMax where what you see is what you get, no negotiating the price. The time we used them the car was much cheaper than the dealers and flawless. Still serves us well today.

CptCool

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20579 on: July 31, 2018, 08:48:32 AM »
Quote
Suppose that by the year 2020 your income has doubled, but the prices of all of the things you buy have also doubled. In 2020, will you be able to buy more than today, exactly the same as today, or less than today with your income?

Since the "things I buy" are only 20% of my income, I can buy a lot more then. But I dont think a "more" would be counted as correct right?

The most important think for any questionaire are the questions, and they seldom are good.

This was a poorly worded question. The correct answer is supposed to be 'exactly the same', but it assumes you spend 100% of your income.

$100k income, buy $50k stuff --> $200k income, buy $100k stuff. Doubling income and expenses still allows for double the amount of stuff I could buy. That's the way I thought of it too, so I guess I'm financially illiterate according to that article's definition

grandep

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 107
  • Location: New Mexico
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20580 on: July 31, 2018, 09:12:29 AM »
Quote
Suppose that by the year 2020 your income has doubled, but the prices of all of the things you buy have also doubled. In 2020, will you be able to buy more than today, exactly the same as today, or less than today with your income?

Since the "things I buy" are only 20% of my income, I can buy a lot more then. But I dont think a "more" would be counted as correct right?

The most important think for any questionaire are the questions, and they seldom are good.

This was a poorly worded question. The correct answer is supposed to be 'exactly the same', but it assumes you spend 100% of your income.

$100k income, buy $50k stuff --> $200k income, buy $100k stuff. Doubling income and expenses still allows for double the amount of stuff I could buy. That's the way I thought of it too, so I guess I'm financially illiterate according to that article's definition

Say a widget costs $10. I make $1000 a month and choose to spend $200 a month on widgets, or 20 widgets per month. That leaves me with an extra $800, enough to buy another 80 widgets if I so choose.

By 2020, my income has doubled to $2000 a month, but the cost of widgets has increased to $20. I still want my 20 widgets per month, so I now spend $400 each month on widgets, leaving me with $1600 left over, enough to buy another 80 widgets if I so choose.

So it seems that the correct answer is, in fact, exactly the same. In absolute terms, I have more money left over, but the purchasing power has decreased.

Am I missing something? Perhaps I am financially illiterate, but it seems to me that the questionnaire was right.

CptCool

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20581 on: July 31, 2018, 10:35:41 AM »
Quote
Suppose that by the year 2020 your income has doubled, but the prices of all of the things you buy have also doubled. In 2020, will you be able to buy more than today, exactly the same as today, or less than today with your income?

Since the "things I buy" are only 20% of my income, I can buy a lot more then. But I dont think a "more" would be counted as correct right?

The most important think for any questionaire are the questions, and they seldom are good.

This was a poorly worded question. The correct answer is supposed to be 'exactly the same', but it assumes you spend 100% of your income.

$100k income, buy $50k stuff --> $200k income, buy $100k stuff. Doubling income and expenses still allows for double the amount of stuff I could buy. That's the way I thought of it too, so I guess I'm financially illiterate according to that article's definition

Say a widget costs $10. I make $1000 a month and choose to spend $200 a month on widgets, or 20 widgets per month. That leaves me with an extra $800, enough to buy another 80 widgets if I so choose.

By 2020, my income has doubled to $2000 a month, but the cost of widgets has increased to $20. I still want my 20 widgets per month, so I now spend $400 each month on widgets, leaving me with $1600 left over, enough to buy another 80 widgets if I so choose.

So it seems that the correct answer is, in fact, exactly the same. In absolute terms, I have more money left over, but the purchasing power has decreased.

Am I missing something? Perhaps I am financially illiterate, but it seems to me that the questionnaire was right.

You interpreted it correctly, or at least how the survey was intended. I misinterpreted it because I instinctively assumed there was savings involved. They say "all of the things you buy" have doubled, rather than saying "all of the things you could buy" or something similar. They're implying that you spend 100% of income, which is what tripped me up. Just a MPP I guess

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9918
  • Registered member
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20582 on: July 31, 2018, 11:34:45 AM »
Quote
Suppose that by the year 2020 your income has doubled, but the prices of all of the things you buy have also doubled. In 2020, will you be able to buy more than today, exactly the same as today, or less than today with your income?

Since the "things I buy" are only 20% of my income, I can buy a lot more then. But I dont think a "more" would be counted as correct right?

The most important think for any questionaire are the questions, and they seldom are good.

This was a poorly worded question. The correct answer is supposed to be 'exactly the same', but it assumes you spend 100% of your income.

$100k income, buy $50k stuff --> $200k income, buy $100k stuff. Doubling income and expenses still allows for double the amount of stuff I could buy. That's the way I thought of it too, so I guess I'm financially illiterate according to that article's definition

Say a widget costs $10. I make $1000 a month and choose to spend $200 a month on widgets, or 20 widgets per month. That leaves me with an extra $800, enough to buy another 80 widgets if I so choose.

By 2020, my income has doubled to $2000 a month, but the cost of widgets has increased to $20. I still want my 20 widgets per month, so I now spend $400 each month on widgets, leaving me with $1600 left over, enough to buy another 80 widgets if I so choose.

So it seems that the correct answer is, in fact, exactly the same. In absolute terms, I have more money left over, but the purchasing power has decreased.

Am I missing something? Perhaps I am financially illiterate, but it seems to me that the questionnaire was right.

You interpreted it correctly, or at least how the survey was intended. I misinterpreted it because I instinctively assumed there was savings involved. They say "all of the things you buy" have doubled, rather than saying "all of the things you could buy" or something similar. They're implying that you spend 100% of income, which is what tripped me up. Just a MPP I guess

I agree it could be worded better, but I don’t think they assume you spend 100% of income.  They are asking about your purchasing power, what you are able to purchase, which does not increase.  It’s right in the question: “will you be able to buy more”.  No, you will not be able to buy more than you are now able to (even though you are now able to buy more than you actually do, which is true regardless of inflation)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 11:36:40 AM by dragoncar »

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8433
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20583 on: July 31, 2018, 11:54:46 AM »
I agree it could be worded better, but I don’t think they assume you spend 100% of income.  They are asking about your purchasing power, what you are able to purchase, which does not increase.  It’s right in the question: “will you be able to buy more”.  No, you will not be able to buy more than you are now able to (even though you are now able to buy more than you actually do, which is true regardless of inflation)

From my perspective, the answer to this question is entirely dependent on your investment returns relative to inflation.

Following the above example, if I buy 20 widgets and invest the remaining $800, then as long as that investment earns more than inflation (and wage growth, here assumed to be equal to inflation), then in the future when both my income and the cost of widgets have doubled my investment will be worth more widgets than it was before.

Tis the nature of compound growth in a capitalist economy.  As long as we manage to keep inflation lower than ROI, you always get richer over time by investing, and thus you can always buy more in the future than you can today.

Of course, the real secret here is that by choosing to regularly invest and get so rich, you learn not to need those riches.  That's true prosperity.  There are lots of miserable millionaires who are so in debt they will never get to enjoy their success.

sea_saw

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2479
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20584 on: August 01, 2018, 06:27:25 AM »
From my perspective, the answer to this question is entirely dependent on your investment returns relative to inflation.

But the question has nothing to do with investment returns. For ease of reference, actual full wording of the question:
Quote
5. Suppose that by the year 2020 your income has doubled, but the prices of all of the things you buy have also doubled. In 2020, will you be able to buy more than today, exactly the same as today, or less than today with your income?

It's not a trick question about whether by 2020 you're likely to have saved and invested enough to be better off than you are now. It's testing basic financial literacy, asking whether you understand that if your pay doubles and in the same period all your costs double, that's not the same thing as you getting double your pay today, even though the numbers look big and shiny.

It's similar to question 2, which is checking whether you understand that if your savings interest rate is below inflation, the value of those savings is actually going down even though the numbers are going up.

The first three questions are based on standard(ish) ones that have been used in many studies around the world (I'm used to seeing them as multiple choice, like this: http://gflec.org/education/3-questions-that-indicate-financial-literacy/). The last two I don't remember seeing before and the wording is less well thought out (especially IMO Q4), but I can see what they're trying to get at.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9918
  • Registered member
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20585 on: August 01, 2018, 10:28:15 AM »
From my perspective, the answer to this question is entirely dependent on your investment returns relative to inflation.

But the question has nothing to do with investment returns. For ease of reference, actual full wording of the question:
Quote
5. Suppose that by the year 2020 your income has doubled, but the prices of all of the things you buy have also doubled. In 2020, will you be able to buy more than today, exactly the same as today, or less than today with your income?

It's not a trick question about whether by 2020 you're likely to have saved and invested enough to be better off than you are now. It's testing basic financial literacy, asking whether you understand that if your pay doubles and in the same period all your costs double, that's not the same thing as you getting double your pay today, even though the numbers look big and shiny.

It's similar to question 2, which is checking whether you understand that if your savings interest rate is below inflation, the value of those savings is actually going down even though the numbers are going up.

The first three questions are based on standard(ish) ones that have been used in many studies around the world (I'm used to seeing them as multiple choice, like this: http://gflec.org/education/3-questions-that-indicate-financial-literacy/). The last two I don't remember seeing before and the wording is less well thought out (especially IMO Q4), but I can see what they're trying to get at.

I feel like this is a prime test-taking skill.  You have to know enough about the subject to understand what the intent of the question is.  Even if you could interpret it both ways, it should be obvious which answer they are looking for.

wbranch

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 183
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Some Mountain Ridge
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20586 on: August 01, 2018, 11:19:14 AM »
From my perspective, the answer to this question is entirely dependent on your investment returns relative to inflation.

But the question has nothing to do with investment returns. For ease of reference, actual full wording of the question:
Quote
5. Suppose that by the year 2020 your income has doubled, but the prices of all of the things you buy have also doubled. In 2020, will you be able to buy more than today, exactly the same as today, or less than today with your income?

It's not a trick question about whether by 2020 you're likely to have saved and invested enough to be better off than you are now. It's testing basic financial literacy, asking whether you understand that if your pay doubles and in the same period all your costs double, that's not the same thing as you getting double your pay today, even though the numbers look big and shiny.

It's similar to question 2, which is checking whether you understand that if your savings interest rate is below inflation, the value of those savings is actually going down even though the numbers are going up.

The first three questions are based on standard(ish) ones that have been used in many studies around the world (I'm used to seeing them as multiple choice, like this: http://gflec.org/education/3-questions-that-indicate-financial-literacy/). The last two I don't remember seeing before and the wording is less well thought out (especially IMO Q4), but I can see what they're trying to get at.

I want to know how many people pick "refuse to answer" in those studies.

Siebrie

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20587 on: August 03, 2018, 05:10:33 AM »
We had a student for a month to help out with menial tasks; he is moving to London soon for Uni. I told him about all the cheap and free things he can do there, while my boss and a colleague warned him about how expensive London is, while looking at me with great eyes, completely disbelieving me.

This came up during his farewell sushi lunch (delivered to the office for 60euros/4 people). My boss suggested it wouldn't be enough, because she and her 3 kids (10, 10 and 7) ate that much every time they ordered sushi, which she then volunteered was at least once a week. It's my grocery budget for a week, for 2 adults and 2 kids :D

Boss is otherwise doing well, she saw the stranglehold she could have on Management, being the only suitable person for the job (and performing well), and almost doubled her salary to >400k/annum within 6 months after starting.

Stash Engineer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 527
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20588 on: August 03, 2018, 03:13:54 PM »
I have a coworker who just bought a brand new BMW M2.  He stated that he wanted to “keep my car payment under $800/month”.  He already owns two other cars that I know of - a BMW 5 series and one of the collector model Supras.  That payment must be getting to him because he was overheard on the phone negotiating the sale of one of his guitars.  I would estimate his salary at around $80k. 

RWD

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6499
  • Location: Arizona
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20589 on: August 03, 2018, 03:28:25 PM »
I have a coworker who just bought a brand new BMW M2.  He stated that he wanted to “keep my car payment under $800/month”.  He already owns two other cars that I know of - a BMW 5 series and one of the collector model Supras.  That payment must be getting to him because he was overheard on the phone negotiating the sale of one of his guitars.  I would estimate his salary at around $80k.
I bet he got at least a 7 year loan (or he's leasing it). It's pretty difficult to get a brand new M2 for under $800/month without putting a significant amount down. MSRP starts at $59k plus options.

Stash Engineer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 527
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20590 on: August 03, 2018, 09:01:41 PM »
I didn’t get the impression that it was leased.  He very well could have done a 84+ month loan on it.  There is another guy in the department that’s the same pay grade with a new F-sport.  I love cars too, but that’s nuts. 

nnls

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: Perth, AU
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20591 on: August 05, 2018, 12:25:44 AM »
Workmate just mentioned that their wife had gone and spent extra money at Coles (Australian grocery store) to get more Little Shop Collectables

They dont have kids, this is just to try and get them, apparently their freezer was already full and they have stockpiled toilet paper/ detergent ect to try and get as many of these as possible. They have also bought a collectors case

MarciaB

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 544
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20592 on: August 05, 2018, 10:45:43 AM »
Workmate just mentioned that their wife had gone and spent extra money at Coles (Australian grocery store) to get more Little Shop Collectables

They dont have kids, this is just to try and get them, apparently their freezer was already full and they have stockpiled toilet paper/ detergent ect to try and get as many of these as possible. They have also bought a collectors case

WTF?! I had to click the link to see this...little trial sized things? Toothpaste and whatnot? Are you kidding me, with a little collector case...??!! What the everliving fuck??

onlykelsey

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20593 on: August 05, 2018, 10:52:33 AM »
Quote
ey have stockpiled toilet paper/ detergent ect to try and get as many of these as possible. They have also bought a collectors case

WTF?! I had to click the link to see this...little trial sized things? Toothpaste and whatnot? Are you kidding me, with a little collector case...??!! What the everliving fuck??

I didn't click and assumed they were some sort of collectible figurine... so... this is better, I guess??

JAYSLOL

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2131
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20594 on: August 05, 2018, 11:23:56 AM »
Workmate just mentioned that their wife had gone and spent extra money at Coles (Australian grocery store) to get more Little Shop Collectables

They dont have kids, this is just to try and get them, apparently their freezer was already full and they have stockpiled toilet paper/ detergent ect to try and get as many of these as possible. They have also bought a collectors case

Wow, that's pretty dumb.  I like to avoid collecting anything labeled as a collectable ("Collectors Edition!"), it's officially not a real collectable if it's marketed as one. 

nnls

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: Perth, AU
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20595 on: August 05, 2018, 04:01:46 PM »
Quote
ey have stockpiled toilet paper/ detergent ect to try and get as many of these as possible. They have also bought a collectors case

WTF?! I had to click the link to see this...little trial sized things? Toothpaste and whatnot? Are you kidding me, with a little collector case...??!! What the everliving fuck??

I didn't click and assumed they were some sort of collectible figurine... so... this is better, I guess??
They are just collectibles, they arent trials. just plastic figurines of what looks like real products

MarciaB

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 544
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20596 on: August 05, 2018, 04:13:11 PM »
Like happy meal toys but for adult shoppers I suppose. Good lord, what next?!

nnls

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Location: Perth, AU
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20597 on: August 05, 2018, 04:40:26 PM »
Like happy meal toys but for adult shoppers I suppose. Good lord, what next?!

I usually do my grocery shopping there (its the closest when I walk) I have gotten the ones that come with my shop, and given them to my niece who has put them in her barbie house. But I certainly wouldn't be going out of my way to shop there, but I can see why kids might like them. Adults collecting them makes no sense   

(and people are selling them on ebay )

Darryl

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Adelaide, Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20598 on: August 05, 2018, 10:01:25 PM »
Workmate just mentioned that their wife had gone and spent extra money at Coles (Australian grocery store) to get more Little Shop Collectables

They dont have kids, this is just to try and get them, apparently their freezer was already full and they have stockpiled toilet paper/ detergent ect to try and get as many of these as possible. They have also bought a collectors case


It's sad that with all this talk about plastics and their effect on the environment at the moment that Coles comes up with this!!!!

Kyle Schuant

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1314
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20599 on: August 05, 2018, 10:16:16 PM »
The plastics thing is a nice distraction. Some 55% of our carbon emissions come from our homes and workplaces, how we build and power them and transport ourselves around. Another 21% comes from industry - ultimately, from making the stuff we buy or use, from roads to clothes to doohickeys. That's 76% in things which have to do with our non-food consumption.

By focusing on things like plastic bags, we conveniently distract ourselves from the most important stuff. It's like the doctors working on a bruise when you have a compound fracture of the leg. But I guess it gives people warm fuzzies.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!