Overheard at Work

[Marty]

As soon as I walked into work to start my 12 hour shift today I experienced something noteworthy for this discussion!  My two coworkers know that I ride motorcycles and so do they.  CW1 yells my name and excitedly asks if I want to ride to the BMW dealership this weekend with him and CW2 so they can both buy BMW S1000RRs ($19,000 brand new).  I politely decline saying I have to work noon to midnight on Saturday and Sunday (truth).  They’ve been talking about getting new motorcycles for the past week and even tried getting me to buy a new one with them.  I’m perfectly happy with my $6000 bike that I paid for in cash :)

What makes this even worse is that CW1 had his motorcycle stolen a few months ago and never reported the incident to his insurance company because he owes more on the bike than it’s worth.  So he is still paying insurance/payments on his stolen motorcycle.  CW2 was freaking out last year about his re-enlistment (we’re in the Marine Corps) taking longer than it should and how he can’t afford to be out for even a week because he lives paycheck to paycheck and wouldn’t be able to afford his mortgage payment.  On top of that, CW2 just recently bought (financed) a brand new $14,000 Harley-Davidson about 5 months ago and is already “bored” of it so he is willing to trade it in to the BMW dealership and roll his negative equity into the new motorcycle.  FML this is why the military gets a bad rep when it comes to personal finance and buying flashy vehicles with deployment money, re-enlistment money, or flat-out no money.

Coworker's older teenage son shows up at home with a brand new crotch rocket. He tells dad, "no worries, it's only $100 a month". Problem #1, it's a teaser rate, and jumps several hundred a month in a year. Problem #2, there is no full coverage insurance that the kid can afford, since he is a punk with a shit driving record, and he isn't even an adult yet. The only reason this stupidity was even possible is that the manufacturer was also the lender. Problem #3 the kid is an award winning motocross racer who isn't smart enough to not end up dead, or in a wheelchair, while operating a street bike that can go in excess of 160MPH.  Problem #4, dad quickly has enough of this crap, and tells son that it's getting sold,and dad will come up with the cash to bridge the deficit, and make this horror story go away. Shit deal for dad, but better than a late night trip to the morgue. Final problem, when selling a fairly new crotch rocket, you will not only lose your ass, but you will attract a universe worth of dreamers, idiots, and liars.

     "Dude, I can spot you $2000 down, if you can do a personal loan for the balance. I'm solid, YO"

   " Dude, my student loan comes through in a few weeks, can I give you a hundred to hold it"

   "Will you take a trade? I have an Xbox and a 400 YZ that's totally badass. That cool bro.?

It was painful to watch. The bike was finally liquidated, and dad was out $4k.

Those responses to the motorcycle ad are pretty accurate with most of the sportbike riding crowd, unfortunately.  Makes us look like we all have half a brain.  Sucks for the kid's dad though.  Btw, the one co-worker that had the Harley traded it in yesterday and purchased the brand new BMW S1000RR.  Sigh.

[Kevin S.]

As soon as I walked into work to start my 12 hour shift today I experienced something noteworthy for this discussion!  My two coworkers know that I ride motorcycles and so do they.  CW1 yells my name and excitedly asks if I want to ride to the BMW dealership this weekend with him and CW2 so they can both buy BMW S1000RRs ($19,000 brand new).  I politely decline saying I have to work noon to midnight on Saturday and Sunday (truth).  They’ve been talking about getting new motorcycles for the past week and even tried getting me to buy a new one with them.  I’m perfectly happy with my $6000 bike that I paid for in cash :)

What makes this even worse is that CW1 had his motorcycle stolen a few months ago and never reported the incident to his insurance company because he owes more on the bike than it’s worth.  So he is still paying insurance/payments on his stolen motorcycle.  CW2 was freaking out last year about his re-enlistment (we’re in the Marine Corps) taking longer than it should and how he can’t afford to be out for even a week because he lives paycheck to paycheck and wouldn’t be able to afford his mortgage payment.  On top of that, CW2 just recently bought (financed) a brand new $14,000 Harley-Davidson about 5 months ago and is already “bored” of it so he is willing to trade it in to the BMW dealership and roll his negative equity into the new motorcycle.  FML this is why the military gets a bad rep when it comes to personal finance and buying flashy vehicles with deployment money, re-enlistment money, or flat-out no money.

Coworker's older teenage son shows up at home with a brand new crotch rocket. He tells dad, "no worries, it's only $100 a month". Problem #1, it's a teaser rate, and jumps several hundred a month in a year. Problem #2, there is no full coverage insurance that the kid can afford, since he is a punk with a shit driving record, and he isn't even an adult yet. The only reason this stupidity was even possible is that the manufacturer was also the lender. Problem #3 the kid is an award winning motocross racer who isn't smart enough to not end up dead, or in a wheelchair, while operating a street bike that can go in excess of 160MPH.  Problem #4, dad quickly has enough of this crap, and tells son that it's getting sold,and dad will come up with the cash to bridge the deficit, and make this horror story go away. Shit deal for dad, but better than a late night trip to the morgue. Final problem, when selling a fairly new crotch rocket, you will not only lose your ass, but you will attract a universe worth of dreamers, idiots, and liars.

     "Dude, I can spot you $2000 down, if you can do a personal loan for the balance. I'm solid, YO"

   " Dude, my student loan comes through in a few weeks, can I give you a hundred to hold it"

   "Will you take a trade? I have an Xbox and a 400 YZ that's totally badass. That cool bro.?

It was painful to watch. The bike was finally liquidated, and dad was out $4k.

Those responses to the motorcycle ad are pretty accurate with most of the sportbike riding crowd, unfortunately.  Makes us look like we all have half a brain.  Sucks for the kid's dad though.  Btw, the one co-worker that had the Harley traded it in yesterday and purchased the brand new BMW S1000RR.  Sigh.

Ugh...so very true. I had multiple stories like that when trying to sell my last motorcycle. The best one was what the bike was worth in stock in his "weed business" . I drove by his shop 2 months ago (one of the many on Colfax here) - sure enough it's closed up and currently has a lease sign on the front window haha. Turds...

Sad that your co worker bought that bmw. Cool motorcycle but you never finance a toy ! It's just asking for trouble - ask me how I know lol

[SeaEhm]

My mid twenties co-worker has a baby on the way and told me yesterday he and his wife(they kinda got married just cause the baby but whatever) are going to be trading in both their cars. Car number one is a 2013 Mazda 3 with 70k miles, the other a 2015 Ford Focus with 12k miles. They'll be traded on a Subaru WRX/FullCab Sierra and a Toyota RAV4, respectively. 

Reason why? Safety and space. They want their baby to be safe and need the space to haul him/stuff around.

I would guess he makes about $45-55k a year. I don't know what she makes but from the conversations we have had, I believe she has a receptionist job.

And he also told me he got a quote over the weekend of $200 for landscaping work around his house. 

WTF???

I laughed when he said that because on my lunch break I went to Lowe's and bought 15 bags of mulch for the front flower bed. It cost $41 and took me less than an hour to lay it all down last night.

Bet your car smelled delicious after work, haha.  (Actually like the smell of manure/mulch for some odd reason)

So the couple makes maybe $100k and are upgrading their cars? Wow! I love hearing that story.  Helps me justify my next car purchase quite easily, haha.

[Chris22]

Interested in what sort of landscaping one can get done for $200.  Around here, a couple yards of mulch delivered is probably $100+, or you can spend around the same buying it bag by bag.  I then have to pay $2/bag to have yard waste taken away (no place to dump it).  So $200 could be a really good deal depending on what was being done.  I'm pretty sure aside from just a pure mowing, I couldn't even get a landscaping crew to come out for a job that was only going to cost $200. 

[Tjat]

Interested in what sort of landscaping one can get done for $200.  Around here, a couple yards of mulch delivered is probably $100+, or you can spend around the same buying it bag by bag.  I then have to pay $2/bag to have yard waste taken away (no place to dump it).  So $200 could be a really good deal depending on what was being done.  I'm pretty sure aside from just a pure mowing, I couldn't even get a landscaping crew to come out for a job that was only going to cost $200.

Agreed. I've had various quotes over the years like $350 to remove a stump, $800 to trim some high trees, etc. that I can't imagine what limited service could be done for $200. I feel that's the not much over the price of a bag of grass seed.


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[dragoncar]

Interested in what sort of landscaping one can get done for $200.  Around here, a couple yards of mulch delivered is probably $100+, or you can spend around the same buying it bag by bag.  I then have to pay $2/bag to have yard waste taken away (no place to dump it).  So $200 could be a really good deal depending on what was being done.  I'm pretty sure aside from just a pure mowing, I couldn't even get a landscaping crew to come out for a job that was only going to cost $200.

Agreed. I've had various quotes over the years like $350 to remove a stump, $800 to trim some high trees, etc. that I can't imagine what limited service could be done for $200. I feel that's the not much over the price of a bag of grass seed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The ony thing that cheap is unskilled labor.  You could get 2-3 solid days of weeding done, or holes dug and refilled

[Jubes]

Coworker who makes about 85K/year. Recently sold her duplex which was only a couple miles from work because she was getting married and going to start a family (her unit was a 2 bed/2 bath, probably 1100 sf). Bought a 400K+ "dream house" in the countryside with space for her two horses to live in the backyard (or whatever you call your backyard when it has horses living in it).

"We'll be making a monthly payment to the hospital for, like, the rest of our lives. No, seriously. For like the next 50 years. It's an $80K bill."

This bill is for anti venom for a snake bite that her now husband incurred at their OLD, awesome duplex house, before they got married, when he didn't have health insurance. And they STILL bought the far-away, big dream house. Bummer.

[farfromfire]

Coworker who makes about 85K/year. Recently sold her duplex which was only a couple miles from work because she was getting married and going to start a family (her unit was a 2 bed/2 bath, probably 1100 sf). Bought a 400K+ "dream house" in the countryside with space for her two horses to live in the backyard (or whatever you call your backyard when it has horses living in it).

"We'll be making a monthly payment to the hospital for, like, the rest of our lives. No, seriously. For like the next 50 years. It's an $80K bill."

This bill is for anti venom for a snake bite that her now husband incurred at their OLD, awesome duplex house, before they got married, when he didn't have health insurance. And they STILL bought the far-away, big dream house. Bummer.

Seems like the right decision, if they expect 5 more snake bites at their old duplex

[Fomerly known as something]

"I'm so tired of people shitting on me! If I didn't need this job, I would be SO out of here!!"

I can't count how many times I have heard this. And everytime I have heard this from my colleagues I try to introduce them to the concept of FIRE and all they say "that is stupid". We are all in our early- late 20s - they have time to change things over but most likely won't

And it's converse, I'm in the GOV so will likely stay another 8 years to keep my health benefits and retire are the ripe old age of 47.  But things are kind of crazy in my division so I've made the comment that I might just walk out the door on the 17th, (that is the day I will always quit since my pension is calculated by the month).  I'd get a smaller respectable pension starting at 62.  I get the comment but how would you live without a pension.  Um investments and retirement accounts.

[Abooki]

it is indeed sad that some people can't imagine a life without a pension or in my case the most they will get is social security and whatever is in their 401ks. Some have actually borrowed from their 401ks to buy Mcmansions in my area that is about 350k+ and most of them have no kids(not that is a reason for a mcmansion).

"I'm so tired of people shitting on me! If I didn't need this job, I would be SO out of here!!"

I can't count how many times I have heard this. And everytime I have heard this from my colleagues I try to introduce them to the concept of FIRE and all they say "that is stupid". We are all in our early- late 20s - they have time to change things over but most likely won't

And it's converse, I'm in the GOV so will likely stay another 8 years to keep my health benefits and retire are the ripe old age of 47.  But things are kind of crazy in my division so I've made the comment that I might just walk out the door on the 17th, (that is the day I will always quit since my pension is calculated by the month).  I'd get a smaller respectable pension starting at 62.  I get the comment but how would you live without a pension.  Um investments and retirement accounts.

[CptCool]

Interested in what sort of landscaping one can get done for $200.  Around here, a couple yards of mulch delivered is probably $100+, or you can spend around the same buying it bag by bag.  I then have to pay $2/bag to have yard waste taken away (no place to dump it).  So $200 could be a really good deal depending on what was being done.  I'm pretty sure aside from just a pure mowing, I couldn't even get a landscaping crew to come out for a job that was only going to cost $200.

Agreed. I've had various quotes over the years like $350 to remove a stump, $800 to trim some high trees, etc. that I can't imagine what limited service could be done for $200. I feel that's the not much over the price of a bag of grass seed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The ony thing that cheap is unskilled labor.  You could get 2-3 solid days of weeding done, or holes dug and refilled

I had an 3ft x 5ft stump ground up for $80. The guy had a special machine for it and it took about 20min. It left a lot of sawdust (which would have cost an extra $80 to dispose of), but I just threw part of it away, burned some of it, and put some in a garden/compost area.

I then had someone regrade the 15x35ft yard for another $250 after the stump was gone. Just one guy with a bobcat & probably a shovel & chalk line (i didn't watch the whole process).

This was in the fall of last year in the twin cities MN for reference, so a medium-low COL area. Also, the yard was just a bunch of dirt after doing all this, so I spent an afternoon with a tiller and spreader for some grass seed which is coming in nice. Not all landscaping needs to be expensive, you just need to find the right people for the job

[Chris22]

Interested in what sort of landscaping one can get done for $200.  Around here, a couple yards of mulch delivered is probably $100+, or you can spend around the same buying it bag by bag.  I then have to pay $2/bag to have yard waste taken away (no place to dump it).  So $200 could be a really good deal depending on what was being done.  I'm pretty sure aside from just a pure mowing, I couldn't even get a landscaping crew to come out for a job that was only going to cost $200.

Agreed. I've had various quotes over the years like $350 to remove a stump, $800 to trim some high trees, etc. that I can't imagine what limited service could be done for $200. I feel that's the not much over the price of a bag of grass seed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The ony thing that cheap is unskilled labor.  You could get 2-3 solid days of weeding done, or holes dug and refilled

What threw me off was the phrase "had a quote done" suggesting a professional landscaping firm.  Around here, no way I get a firm for a job that small, just not worth their time.  I think even buying plants/trees from the local nursery, they want minimum $500 of work to come out and plant them for you.  Now if it's two guys, possibly of questionable "documentation", and a couple shovels, sure, but they're not coming out to "give quotes" either. 

[Cyanne]

Interested in what sort of landscaping one can get done for $200.  Around here, a couple yards of mulch delivered is probably $100+, or you can spend around the same buying it bag by bag.  I then have to pay $2/bag to have yard waste taken away (no place to dump it).  So $200 could be a really good deal depending on what was being done.  I'm pretty sure aside from just a pure mowing, I couldn't even get a landscaping crew to come out for a job that was only going to cost $200.

Agreed. I've had various quotes over the years like $350 to remove a stump, $800 to trim some high trees, etc. that I can't imagine what limited service could be done for $200. I feel that's the not much over the price of a bag of grass seed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The ony thing that cheap is unskilled labor.  You could get 2-3 solid days of weeding done, or holes dug and refilled

I had an 3ft x 5ft stump ground up for $80. The guy had a special machine for it and it took about 20min. It left a lot of sawdust (which would have cost an extra $80 to dispose of), but I just threw part of it away, burned some of it, and put some in a garden/compost area.

I then had someone regrade the 15x35ft yard for another $250 after the stump was gone. Just one guy with a bobcat & probably a shovel & chalk line (i didn't watch the whole process).

This was in the fall of last year in the twin cities MN for reference, so a medium-low COL area. Also, the yard was just a bunch of dirt after doing all this, so I spent an afternoon with a tiller and spreader for some grass seed which is coming in nice. Not all landscaping needs to be expensive, you just need to find the right people for the job

I don't think that the Twin Cities counts as a medium-low cost of living area. We are above the national average although below the HCOL on the east and west coasts.

http://www.areavibes.com/minneapolis-mn/cost-of-living/

[Fomerly known as something]

Anyone who is not looking for a new job when they are eligible to retire is lying (pension position).

My thoughts, unless they actually are planning to retire.

[paddedhat]

Coworker who makes about 85K/year. Recently sold her duplex which was only a couple miles from work because she was getting married and going to start a family (her unit was a 2 bed/2 bath, probably 1100 sf). Bought a 400K+ "dream house" in the countryside with space for her two horses to live in the backyard (or whatever you call your backyard when it has horses living in it).

"We'll be making a monthly payment to the hospital for, like, the rest of our lives. No, seriously. For like the next 50 years. It's an $80K bill."

This bill is for anti venom for a snake bite that her now husband incurred at their OLD, awesome duplex house, before they got married, when he didn't have health insurance. And they STILL bought the far-away, big dream house. Bummer.

The bigger story here is that they are being raped by the American medical machine. A few hundred bucks in cost of the actual antivenom, and a few thousand in mark-up if there is an insurer involved. Private pay? Oh, that's gonna' be an $80k bill. Will you be paying in full, or will you be paying on our plan? $800 a month for the next eight years sounds fair, right?  It's just stunning that we are the only country on the planet that allows health care providers to commit crimes like this.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Coworker who makes about 85K/year. Recently sold her duplex which was only a couple miles from work because she was getting married and going to start a family (her unit was a 2 bed/2 bath, probably 1100 sf). Bought a 400K+ "dream house" in the countryside with space for her two horses to live in the backyard (or whatever you call your backyard when it has horses living in it).

"We'll be making a monthly payment to the hospital for, like, the rest of our lives. No, seriously. For like the next 50 years. It's an $80K bill."

This bill is for anti venom for a snake bite that her now husband incurred at their OLD, awesome duplex house, before they got married, when he didn't have health insurance. And they STILL bought the far-away, big dream house. Bummer.

The bigger story here is that they are being raped by the American medical machine. A few hundred bucks in cost of the actual antivenom, and a few thousand in mark-up if there is an insurer involved. Private pay? Oh, that's gonna' be an $80k bill. Will you be paying in full, or will you be paying on our plan? $800 a month for the next eight years sounds fair, right?  It's just stunning that we are the only country on the planet that allows health care providers to commit crimes like this.

Worse still: instead of identifying correcting the abuses, the public continues to obsess over the means of payment (single vs multi-) and on whether healthy people should be forced to pay into a system that accommodates the grotesque overbilling.

[Dicey]

You're killing yourself, but you're doing it frugally? #Getthefuckouttahere!

I grow my own tobacco, and roll cigars and chew some of it.

That quote was from me to someone else, but since you've chosen to quote it, I would ask you the same question.

Hint: the part after the hash tag would stay the same.

[dragoncar]

You're killing yourself, but you're doing it frugally? #Getthefuckouttahere!

I grow my own tobacco, and roll cigars and chew some of it.

That quote was from me to someone else, but since you've chosen to quote it, I would ask you the same question.

Hint: the part after the hash tag would stay the same.

Although tobacco isn't necessarily healthy, home grown doesn't have the same terrible additives as commercial, right?

[Linea_Norway]

Although tobacco isn't necessarily healthy, home grown doesn't have the same terrible additives as commercial, right?

That sounds plausible. To chewing tobacco, the type that you put under your lip, they add small pieces of glass. This is supposed to cut up your mouth a bit, so that the tobacco gets more effect. I would think that the original tobacco leaves are slightly safer than commercial tobacco. The only thing is that you don't have control of the amount of effective substance. It could vary.

[geekette]

Although tobacco isn't necessarily healthy, home grown doesn't have the same terrible additives as commercial, right?

That sounds plausible. To chewing tobacco, the type that you put under your lip, they add small pieces of glass. This is supposed to cut up your mouth a bit, so that the tobacco gets more effect. <snip>

Nope, just an urban legend.

[zephyr911]

And it's converse, I'm in the GOV so will likely stay another 8 years to keep my health benefits and retire are the ripe old age of 47.  But things are kind of crazy in my division so I've made the comment that I might just walk out the door on the 17th, (that is the day I will always quit since my pension is calculated by the month).  I'd get a smaller respectable pension starting at 62.  I get the comment but how would you live without a pension.  Um investments and retirement accounts.

I'm doing FERS training this Thursday and Friday along with my director and DCG, both of whom are retired full-bird colonels and have been civil service longer than I have. I'm sure I'll raise an eyebrow or two just by being in the class. The closest I've come to disclosing my actual plan to anyone here was when I was convincing the trainer to let me register ("this is only for people retiring within five years" / me - "well, I do plan on going within five" - *to self* "months").

I'll be out of here for 20+ years before the paycheck shows up, and honestly, I don't expect to pick up a whole lot of new information in these courses, but getting out of my normal mind-numbing routine for two days and still getting paid was just too good to pass up.

[BlueHouse]

("this is only for people retiring within five years" / me - "well, I do plan on going within five" - *to self* "months").

LOVE LOVE LOVE!  Congrats Zephyr911

[BuffaloStache]

("this is only for people retiring within five years" / me - "well, I do plan on going within five" - *to self* "months").

LOVE LOVE LOVE!  Congrats Zephyr911

Ditto- congrats!
-------
The morale has been pretty low at my company for a while, so one of my coworkers is trying to organize an afterwork event for some of the people in my working group. He asked me what we should do, and I recommended going for a walk in one of the nearby parks or on a hike. Then he said that some of the other guys were interested in going golfing, to which I said I would prefer not. I then spent the next 10 min explaining that I don't like to golf, and I view it as an expensive hobby...

[Just Joe]

You could just go along and not actively golf. I tried that b/c I don't golf. The group I went with didn't like it.

[RyanAtTanagra]

You could just go along and not actively golf. I tried that b/c I don't golf. The group I went with didn't like it.

That's what I'd do.  To me, golfing is just something you do while drinking.  Same with fishing, or bowling.  Those activities bore me, so I opt out and just hang out and drink and watch everyone else.

[Goldielocks]

You're killing yourself, but you're doing it frugally? #Getthefuckouttahere!

I grow my own tobacco, and roll cigars and chew some of it.

That quote was from me to someone else, but since you've chosen to quote it, I would ask you the same question.

Hint: the part after the hash tag would stay the same.

Although tobacco isn't necessarily healthy, home grown doesn't have the same terrible additives as commercial, right?

Tobacco seeds are so tiny, they get everywhere and into everything.  Yet when they grow, they look like many other "desired" annuals for the first couple of months.  I remember once weeding and I ripped out everything BUT the tobacco plants.     Therefore, I do not recommend growing your own tobacco due to the challenges wind-spread tobacco seeding brings.

[briesas]

You're killing yourself, but you're doing it frugally? #Getthefuckouttahere!

I grow my own tobacco, and roll cigars and chew some of it.

That quote was from me to someone else, but since you've chosen to quote it, I would ask you the same question.

Hint: the part after the hash tag would stay the same.

Growing my own tobacco is totally going to be my retirement hobby.

[dragoncar]

You're killing yourself, but you're doing it frugally? #Getthefuckouttahere!

I grow my own tobacco, and roll cigars and chew some of it.

That quote was from me to someone else, but since you've chosen to quote it, I would ask you the same question.

Hint: the part after the hash tag would stay the same.

Growing my own tobacco is totally going to be my retirement hobby.

tastes like grandma!

[jinga nation]

Tax season deadline in the US... every year I have to hear this, in a military (with contractors and civilians) environment:

• Taxes are too damn high
• Bad roads and infrastructure
• IRS are assholes/thieves
• Bitch Whine Moan

These are the same people who

• buy used luxury cars/trucks on a 6 year loan
• moan about the traffic (the metro is in the top 10-20 worst traffic rankings in North America)
• whine that the Tampa and St. Pete Mayors spend public money to improve their downtowns yet they go downtown for the food/drink/art festivals and free parks
• and stuff we Mustachians are used to hearing

Headphones ON, Music ON, Tune OUT.

[zephyr911]

Tax season deadline in the US... every year I have to hear this, in a military (with contractors and civilians) environment:

• Taxes are too damn high
• Bad roads and infrastructure
• IRS are assholes/thieves
• Bitch Whine Moan

These are the same people who

• buy used luxury cars/trucks on a 6 year loan
• moan about the traffic (the metro is in the top 10-20 worst traffic rankings in North America)
• whine that the Tampa and St. Pete Mayors spend public money to improve their downtowns yet they go downtown for the food/drink/art festivals and free parks
• and stuff we Mustachians are used to hearing

Headphones ON, Music ON, Tune OUT.

There's a lot of stuff I respect and genuinely admire about military culture, like the loyalty and work ethic, but on some issues (see above) so many just don't get it... and what's with everyone loving soldiers/cops/first-responders/etc, and hating the IRS? They're just the soldiers and cops of the financial world, implementing policy created by legislators... don't like tax code, bitch to your Congressman. Meanwhile, obey the fuckin' law. And don't get me started on infrastructure. There's just nothing good to say about our collective myopia thereon. We cost ourselves more money in car damage and public health than we save by not inflation-indexing our gas tax, but NOOO MUH TAXEZZZ :P

/rant

[Chris22]

("this is only for people retiring within five years" / me - "well, I do plan on going within five" - *to self* "months").

LOVE LOVE LOVE!  Congrats Zephyr911

Ditto- congrats!
-------
The morale has been pretty low at my company for a while, so one of my coworkers is trying to organize an afterwork event for some of the people in my working group. He asked me what we should do, and I recommended going for a walk in one of the nearby parks or on a hike. Then he said that some of the other guys were interested in going golfing, to which I said I would prefer not. I then spent the next 10 min explaining that I don't like to golf, and I view it as an expensive hobby...

People don't like what they don't like, that's fine, but golf does not have to be an expensive hobby at all.  Plenty of good golf to be played for <$20/round on public courses. 

[merula]

People don't like what they don't like, that's fine, but golf does not have to be an expensive hobby at all.  Plenty of good golf to be played for <$20/round on public courses.

With what clubs?

You're right that golf doesn't have to be as expensive as some people make it, but if you contrast it with soccer, basketball or tennis, which can often be played for free in public parks with less expensive equipment, golf is more costly.

[Chris22]

People don't like what they don't like, that's fine, but golf does not have to be an expensive hobby at all.  Plenty of good golf to be played for <$20/round on public courses.

With what clubs?

Oh come on, that's like saying biking is expensive because you have to run out and buy a bike. 

You're right that golf doesn't have to be as expensive as some people make it, but if you contrast it with soccer, basketball or tennis, which can often be played for free in public parks with less expensive equipment, golf is more costly.

I forgot that anything that costs more than $ZERO is "expensive".  Christ. 

[mtn]

People don't like what they don't like, that's fine, but golf does not have to be an expensive hobby at all.  Plenty of good golf to be played for <$20/round on public courses.

With what clubs?

You're right that golf doesn't have to be as expensive as some people make it, but if you contrast it with soccer, basketball or tennis, which can often be played for free in public parks with less expensive equipment, golf is more costly.

Used clubs. I have a total of $300 into my golf clubs. More than half of that is in my two putters--but I can get a superb putter for $10, and I'm very unusual in carrying 2. Actually, a full 1/2 of that is in one putter.

I could buy, and have bought, a set of excellent golf clubs including bag, driver, putter, wedges, and irons, for less than $75--and unless you play 100 rounds a year, your clubs will usually last 10-30 years, unless your swing speed changes dramatically in that time.

I'll say that my golf addiction is cheaper than my hockey, racing, and fishing addictions. The only reason my Guitar addiction is cheaper is because they are legitimately appreciating investments.

[Vindicated]

People don't like what they don't like, that's fine, but golf does not have to be an expensive hobby at all.  Plenty of good golf to be played for <$20/round on public courses.

I agree with this.

I bought my clubs for $75 used (Not counting the $110 putter my parents got me for Christmas), and typically spend <$20 per round.  I only played 4 times last year, and will probably only play 4-6 again this year.  It's worth it to me, even if there are cheaper options for hobbies.

[Paul der Krake]

Seconding the used golf clubs. They last for DECADES.

[Pooperman]

Seconding the used golf clubs. They last for DECADES.

Agreed. My used set is older than I am haha. It has a wood wood.

[Chris22]

I started with one of those "all in one" department store sets for $200, and gradually swapped clubs out here and there, mostly used or last season's model on eBay.  Haven't bought a new club in years.  Basically, golf costs me a $20 case of balls 1-2x a season (depending on how badly I suck), a new $7 golf glove once a year (they get stinky and wear through) and maybe a new $50 pair of golf shoes every 5 years.  And then whatever I want to pay as far as greens fees and the park district courses nearby charge ~$16 for 9 holes after 1PM.

[cheapass]

With what clubs?

I found my clubs next to our apartment dumpster :)

[mm1970]

People don't like what they don't like, that's fine, but golf does not have to be an expensive hobby at all.  Plenty of good golf to be played for <$20/round on public courses.

With what clubs?

You're right that golf doesn't have to be as expensive as some people make it, but if you contrast it with soccer, basketball or tennis, which can often be played for free in public parks with less expensive equipment, golf is more costly.

Meh, so you still have to buy a soccer ball.  Or a tennis racket and balls.  My husband used to play tennis with a friend, and had to buy a fair number of balls, plus had to have the racket restrung.

Now, I don't know how many public courses we have here (don't golf), but there are no public tennis courts.  There are a few around that you can get into, but they are owned by the city or by private parks.  They have monitors who go around and check, and charge you a fee if they find you playing ($6-10 per person).  Even first thing in the morning on a Sat or Sun (7:30 am) was not safe.

[mm1970]

People don't like what they don't like, that's fine, but golf does not have to be an expensive hobby at all.  Plenty of good golf to be played for <$20/round on public courses.

With what clubs?

You're right that golf doesn't have to be as expensive as some people make it, but if you contrast it with soccer, basketball or tennis, which can often be played for free in public parks with less expensive equipment, golf is more costly.

Used clubs. I have a total of $300 into my golf clubs. More than half of that is in my two putters--but I can get a superb putter for $10, and I'm very unusual in carrying 2. Actually, a full 1/2 of that is in one putter.

I could buy, and have bought, a set of excellent golf clubs including bag, driver, putter, wedges, and irons, for less than $75--and unless you play 100 rounds a year, your clubs will usually last 10-30 years, unless your swing speed changes dramatically in that time.

I'll say that my golf addiction is cheaper than my hockey, racing, and fishing addictions. The only reason my Guitar addiction is cheaper is because they are legitimately appreciating investments.

Sounds cheaper than my running and swimming hobbies. (Swimsuits (x2 per year), YMCA membership, running shoes (x2 per year), race entries)

[mtn]

People don't like what they don't like, that's fine, but golf does not have to be an expensive hobby at all.  Plenty of good golf to be played for <$20/round on public courses.

With what clubs?

You're right that golf doesn't have to be as expensive as some people make it, but if you contrast it with soccer, basketball or tennis, which can often be played for free in public parks with less expensive equipment, golf is more costly.

Used clubs. I have a total of $300 into my golf clubs. More than half of that is in my two putters--but I can get a superb putter for $10, and I'm very unusual in carrying 2. Actually, a full 1/2 of that is in one putter.

I could buy, and have bought, a set of excellent golf clubs including bag, driver, putter, wedges, and irons, for less than $75--and unless you play 100 rounds a year, your clubs will usually last 10-30 years, unless your swing speed changes dramatically in that time.

I'll say that my golf addiction is cheaper than my hockey, racing, and fishing addictions. The only reason my Guitar addiction is cheaper is because they are legitimately appreciating investments.

Sounds cheaper than my running and swimming hobbies. (Swimsuits (x2 per year), YMCA membership, running shoes (x2 per year), race entries)

There are more costs--golf shoes, golf gloves, golf attire (not an added expense for me, but could be for others), golf balls.. but there are ways around all of it to do it cheaper/freer.

[Frankies Girl]

People don't like what they don't like, that's fine, but golf does not have to be an expensive hobby at all.  Plenty of good golf to be played for <$20/round on public courses.

With what clubs?

You're right that golf doesn't have to be as expensive as some people make it, but if you contrast it with soccer, basketball or tennis, which can often be played for free in public parks with less expensive equipment, golf is more costly.

Used clubs. I have a total of $300 into my golf clubs. More than half of that is in my two putters--but I can get a superb putter for $10, and I'm very unusual in carrying 2. Actually, a full 1/2 of that is in one putter.

I could buy, and have bought, a set of excellent golf clubs including bag, driver, putter, wedges, and irons, for less than $75--and unless you play 100 rounds a year, your clubs will usually last 10-30 years, unless your swing speed changes dramatically in that time.

I'll say that my golf addiction is cheaper than my hockey, racing, and fishing addictions. The only reason my Guitar addiction is cheaper is because they are legitimately appreciating investments.

My dad played golf for well over 20 years, and he was as cheap (not frugal - CHEAP) as they come. He played public courses, walked and never rode cart unless someone else insisted on renting one, and got all of his clubs and supplies second-hand (he was addicted to yard sales and you can pick them up soooo cheap there). He taught himself how to cut down club shafts if they were too long, rewrapped/replaced grips and would never miss an opportunity to fish abandoned balls out of the brush or water traps (he had a special golfer's tool that extended and had a little scoop on the end for this).

When he died, we gave away over 2 dozen golf bags and probably close to 3-400 clubs of various brands and age. Way more than he could ever use (and use up) in probably multiple lifetimes.

[infogoon]

With what clubs?

I found my clubs next to our apartment dumpster :)

I got a full set of hand-me-downs for free from someone on my college golf team when he upgraded.

[shelivesthedream]

Tax season deadline in the US... every year I have to hear this, in a military (with contractors and civilians) environment:

• Taxes are too damn high
• Bad roads and infrastructure
• IRS are assholes/thieves
• Bitch Whine Moan

These are the same people who

• buy used luxury cars/trucks on a 6 year loan
• moan about the traffic (the metro is in the top 10-20 worst traffic rankings in North America)
• whine that the Tampa and St. Pete Mayors spend public money to improve their downtowns yet they go downtown for the food/drink/art festivals and free parks
• and stuff we Mustachians are used to hearing

Headphones ON, Music ON, Tune OUT.

There's a lot of stuff I respect and genuinely admire about military culture, like the loyalty and work ethic, but on some issues (see above) so many just don't get it... and what's with everyone loving soldiers/cops/first-responders/etc, and hating the IRS? They're just the soldiers and cops of the financial world, implementing policy created by legislators... don't like tax code, bitch to your Congressman. Meanwhile, obey the fuckin' law. And don't get me started on infrastructure. There's just nothing good to say about our collective myopia thereon. We cost ourselves more money in car damage and public health than we save by not inflation-indexing our gas tax, but NOOO MUH TAXEZZZ :P

/rant

Also, are military salaries not paid through taxes? If taxes were lower, wouldn't many of these people lose their jobs?

[jinga nation]

Tax season deadline in the US... every year I have to hear this, in a military (with contractors and civilians) environment:

• Taxes are too damn high
• Bad roads and infrastructure
• IRS are assholes/thieves
• Bitch Whine Moan

These are the same people who

• buy used luxury cars/trucks on a 6 year loan
• moan about the traffic (the metro is in the top 10-20 worst traffic rankings in North America)
• whine that the Tampa and St. Pete Mayors spend public money to improve their downtowns yet they go downtown for the food/drink/art festivals and free parks
• and stuff we Mustachians are used to hearing

Headphones ON, Music ON, Tune OUT.

There's a lot of stuff I respect and genuinely admire about military culture, like the loyalty and work ethic, but on some issues (see above) so many just don't get it... and what's with everyone loving soldiers/cops/first-responders/etc, and hating the IRS? They're just the soldiers and cops of the financial world, implementing policy created by legislators... don't like tax code, bitch to your Congressman. Meanwhile, obey the fuckin' law. And don't get me started on infrastructure. There's just nothing good to say about our collective myopia thereon. We cost ourselves more money in car damage and public health than we save by not inflation-indexing our gas tax, but NOOO MUH TAXEZZZ :P

/rant

Also, are military salaries not paid through taxes? If taxes were lower, wouldn't many of these people lose their jobs?

Understanding feedback loops is not part of the learning curriculum. Only life or a Control Theory book can teach you that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory

When I've suggested to the BMWs (yes that's what I call BitchMoanWhiners) to email their local, state, federal reps, and that there's online sites for that, "Oh that's too damn hard". WTF they're online all day on Facebook and Youtube and Buzzfeed.

Myopia... misery loves company. Meanwhile I'm trying my hardest to FIRE the fuck outta here, despite the curve balls life throws at my personal and professional lives.

[Linea_Norway]

My colleague used to have a building company. He and his brother did all the work in buying building grounds and getting approvals. Everything except for the building itself, which they used their father for. His job was uncertain and planned to be cancelled in 2008. He was planning to make himself an alternative career. Eventually his real job was not cancelled anymore and he got too busy at it. Brother fucked himself up with narcotics and the father with the construction company died. So the whole thing is off.
He also told me he received a whole extra year salary to stay working at his job when it was so uncertain. This was from 2006 to 2008.

[Mr. Green]

A co-worker's wife's brand new Mercedes ($70,000 SUV) was hit by someone else and sustained extensive damage. Now that it's fixed, they want to get a different car. They want to sell it quick before the damage has a chance to hit the Carfax report and devalue the car. However, he doesn't have the $10,000 to float for the likely difference in the sale price and the balance of the loan. My co-worker also just bought a $100,000 BMW 750.  I was floored that they just bought $170,000 worth of cars but don't have 10k rattling around.

[BuffaloStache]

I was floored that they just bought $170,000 worth of cars but don't have 10k rattling around.

Wowza. If this isn't a firm commitment to the clown-car commuting lifestyle, I don't know what is.

[ysette9]

In my new role here there are a few people around me who get takeout food every day for lunch during the workweek. I realize that for this particular thread that is nothing worth posting about, but it has been particularly interesting for me because it highlights how most people at work don't buy food and most bring their own lunch. Thankfully it is just that way things are, so me bringing my lunch doesn't stand out but is totally normal. I would guess that by the nature of our work and industry, most people at work earn between $100-200k depending on how long they have been working.