Overheard at Work

[shotgunwilly]

My current boss is an older gentleman, who clearly doesn't understand that politics should not be brought up in the workplace.  He routinely refers to "Obama Bin Laden".  This week, he said it in a meeting with a lot of international co-workers.  They visibly recoiled at that comment.  I resisted the urge to point out that outside of the US, our president is viewed far more favorably than he is here in the deep South!

Are you in Houston? A friend of mine describes her work in much the same way.

Close enough, I'm in the suburbs of Austin.  But our corporate offices are in Houston.  I'd bet we work in the same industry.

I wouldn't exactly call a suburb of Austin the "deep South". As a native Texas (DFW-area), I always make it a point to separate Texas from "the South", especially the areas near the big cities. Sounds like the boss is just a conservative nutjob, regardless of location.

I would have to disagree with you there.  Austin is certainly a progressive blueberry, but get one inch outside of the city, and it's regressive all the way.  I'm in Williamson County, and all the southern stereotypes hold true here.  It's a nice place to live, but us progressive types learned a long time ago to smile and change the subject when it comes to politics or religion.

It's very sad, because the suburbs of most of the big cities do a lot to neutralize the Democratic votes that are cast.  I'm not saying it's a waste of a vote, but it is disheartening to see that this trend will make it much harder to turn TX back to blue.  Jon Stewart did a really good segment on it after Wendy Davis lost.

I will agree that the boss is a conservative nutjob.  He fits in very well here.

That's a shame. There are a few people I work with like that, but I think of them as quaint country-folk, not as the norm. I suppose over the years I've taught myself to separate people from their politics, since most people mean well, just haven't looked into the science and facts much.

Hey now, give them a break. They can't all spend the majority of their time on the internet studying the science and getting their "facts" from disproportionately liberal forum communities and misinformed media sources.

[Papa Mustache]

As someone who once had a car payment I don't see how that's an excuse. It's all about living within one's means. I used to keep an extra $1000-1500 sitting in the checking account as a floor that I would never plan on spending, just in case I overspent or didn't get paid on time or something. It may not be the most optimal life arrangement, but it's extremely easy to do and better than having your hair on fire once per month! In the 3 or 4 years I had that loan I never had a financial problem.

(BTW people telling me my advice is inapplicable because I don't have a house/kid/fancy car in my life is a big pet peeve of mine, so it's nice that I can actually speak from experience on one of these!)

When I was single (years ago) that would have been enough money to keep on tap for emergencies. These days $5K is what I prefer to have on tap. I'm aiming for 6 months of salary as we can save it. Honestly we've always gotten by without much in savings but we were very poor for a long time. I don't want to be poor anymore and I don't want to worry that one of our very elderly cars will leave us stranded and I'll need to seek a loan to repair it.

Never called on our parents for money, never needed a loan for a car repair (done them myself and saved big money over the years), etc. Some of that was luck, some of that was careful planning. Mostly luck though. ;)

The money experts always recommended what seemed like to us unattainable amounts of emergency cash. Finally we're to a place where we can actually make progress in that direction. All it would have taken was better decisions about 20 years ago. -eye rolling-

[Papa Mustache]

I've got two in the past week.

1.  Can anyone lend me $600 for Yo Gabba Gabba tickets?  Child X really LOVES them but we can't afford to go.  Me "Holy CRAP a kids show is that expensive?!?!"  Her "Well, that's the first 15 rows and you get a back stage VIP pass, only the best for child X (who is all of maybe 3 and won't remember anything about this meeting"  Mind you I am pretty sure they are still paying off around 60k in credit card debt that she wracked up before getting married.

2.  Co Worker who gets in large boxes from fancy stores all the time and routinely spends hundreds a week on clothes.   "Ugh, our home health aid wants a raise, I TOLD her 4 years ago when we hired her there would be no raises because we can't afford it".  Me: "Well how much are you paying her"  Her "800 a month for both of my parents who are on dialysis and live in NYC"  Her and her husband pull in over 200k (probably closer to 250) a year combined, this aid takes care of her parents 24-7 365 because she doesn't want to have to deal with them and when I asked she swore poverty that she couldn't afford an extra 50 a month to pay this woman (under the table mind you)...aaaand she just spent 3k, on a couch that she was flashing pictures in the office of...  We continued to talk and I brought up early retirement and got the "I don't know how you can save on our crappy salaries, we can only save 300 a month"....she earns about 20-30k more a year than me, and I'm pushing 90 a year.

#1 - we are taking a family vacation this year. Discussing places to go and thought of a free museum. Then I dismissed it b/c we'd been. Then remembered the kids were so small that the oldest doesn't remember it and the second wasn't in this world yet. Wahoo! They'll love it...

#2 - Worked for a lady just like this. Could give us college guys a small raise b/c she was too tight (stingy) yet she leased one fancy import convertible after another.  My coworker was complaining that she ought to give us a raise (we had a good crew that went above and beyond for her) and i told him to try if he liked but there would not be any raises.

Years later I found out through the grapevine that she and her hubby weren't rich but huge spenders - boat, RV, vacation house, home pool, etc. They spent every dime they made. Eventually they split and she took up a favorite substance to abuse - don't know which one. Money woes continued and then the detached garage burned down (taking an RV with it). Then the house burned down. Then some commercial property burned as well. Huh? Who is that unlucky? With no evidence to the contrary and because I have a huge imagination - I think I know what happened as well as many other folks who live around here...

[firelight]

Not overheard from work, but from a guy that I'm selling my spare watch to.

I had listed it at $140 and he wanted to buy it at $100. We agreed on $120 and he said he is down to his last $100 and needs to wait till Friday to be paid. He asked me to hold the item for him till Friday. :O

If all he has is $100, he shouldn't be buying a stupid watch. But I'm the seller and I'll take his offer.

[Migrator Soul]

A bit different. We were out on the range, and I was helping some junior soldiers with their equipment. One of them had mentioned how he is broke all the time, and can't afford to take his girlfriend out on a date. Me being the curious and slightly helpful sort, I inquired about where all his spare cash goes. He said, well, "I have a really high insurance payment, because I keep getting nailed with speeding tickets, and my car payment is pretty good sized, then I have to pay for unlimited data, tethering, and such on my phone, and I just bought a new iphone six, and I had to tint my windows on my car after getting a new aftermarket stereo put in, and I hate the DFAC food, so I go out to ***** bar to eat, and end up drinking."

It goes on for a while. A while being the point where I stopped listening and waited for his mouth to close. My response was "You are a retard. If you want to get your shit together, ask. But before you waste money on a woman that you will claim is the love of your life in six months to get out of the barracks, you may want to downsize just a bit on all this shit you don't need."

Queue whining about how he needs this and that and the other.. The next month I see him come to work with brand new rims on his vehicle. Always bright.

[Daisy]

Aargh- I used to sit opposite the most negative, draining woman ever. She was overweight,  loudly claimed it was thyroid (nope, it's the cakes you shove into your gaping maw daily), and would critique every piece of food I brought in, looking for the unhealthy stuff, and then exclaim about the sugary/fatty parts of my lunch, and oh, aren't you lucky, wouldn't it be nice to have a metabolism like yours??? Drove me nuts. I used to put a square of chocolate in my oats each morning in lieu of sweetener, and god, she never failed to tell the whole office about my 'chocolatey' breakfast (never mind the hour I spent in the gym before work, and that it was 10grams of chocolate). She would point out my bananas and handful of nuts and smugly tell me they were way too full of sugar/fat for her, but ooh, lucky naturally skinny you, you can eat it. I wanted to smother her. Sorry, a bit OT. Coworkers.

I believe I've posted this here before, but I have _never_ gotten unsolicited advice on my diet or exercise from someone who was actually fit.

I also find it frustrating when someone who appears to be not-in-the-best-shape makes comments on me eating avocados or nuts or whole eggs (the yolk and all!) or some other thing like that and they claim that it is "high fat - you shouldn't eat it!". Fruits - "too much sugar!". Whole eggs - "the yolks will kill you!". Although I think this may be the types of things they hear from their doctors or some widely accepted (but incorrect) nutritional advice.

Me - I prefer to eat whole natural foods in a balanced way. I usually just stare back at them because, at least from outward appearances, I think I am healthier than they are. But who really knows...I could drop dead tomorrow from eating avocados, nuts, and whole eggs. No one really knows others' internal health.

[fb132]

Aargh- I used to sit opposite the most negative, draining woman ever. She was overweight,  loudly claimed it was thyroid (nope, it's the cakes you shove into your gaping maw daily), and would critique every piece of food I brought in, looking for the unhealthy stuff, and then exclaim about the sugary/fatty parts of my lunch, and oh, aren't you lucky, wouldn't it be nice to have a metabolism like yours??? Drove me nuts. I used to put a square of chocolate in my oats each morning in lieu of sweetener, and god, she never failed to tell the whole office about my 'chocolatey' breakfast (never mind the hour I spent in the gym before work, and that it was 10grams of chocolate). She would point out my bananas and handful of nuts and smugly tell me they were way too full of sugar/fat for her, but ooh, lucky naturally skinny you, you can eat it. I wanted to smother her. Sorry, a bit OT. Coworkers.

I believe I've posted this here before, but I have _never_ gotten unsolicited advice on my diet or exercise from someone who was actually fit.

I also find it frustrating when someone who appears to be not-in-the-best-shape makes comments on me eating avocados or nuts or whole eggs (the yolk and all!) or some other thing like that and they claim that it is "high fat - you shouldn't eat it!". Fruits - "too much sugar!". Whole eggs - "the yolks will kill you!". Although I think this may be the types of things they hear from their doctors or some widely accepted (but incorrect) nutritional advice.

Me - I prefer to eat whole natural foods in a balanced way. I usually just stare back at them because, at least from outward appearances, I think I am healthier than they are. But who really knows...I could drop dead tomorrow from eating avocados, nuts, and whole eggs. No one really knows others' internal health.

As long as you don't abuse on eating avocados, nuts and eggs, it is still better than eatin Doritos, Coca Cola and chocolate that most people prefer to eat.

[GuitarStv]

Aargh- I used to sit opposite the most negative, draining woman ever. She was overweight,  loudly claimed it was thyroid (nope, it's the cakes you shove into your gaping maw daily), and would critique every piece of food I brought in, looking for the unhealthy stuff, and then exclaim about the sugary/fatty parts of my lunch, and oh, aren't you lucky, wouldn't it be nice to have a metabolism like yours??? Drove me nuts. I used to put a square of chocolate in my oats each morning in lieu of sweetener, and god, she never failed to tell the whole office about my 'chocolatey' breakfast (never mind the hour I spent in the gym before work, and that it was 10grams of chocolate). She would point out my bananas and handful of nuts and smugly tell me they were way too full of sugar/fat for her, but ooh, lucky naturally skinny you, you can eat it. I wanted to smother her. Sorry, a bit OT. Coworkers.

I believe I've posted this here before, but I have _never_ gotten unsolicited advice on my diet or exercise from someone who was actually fit.

I also find it frustrating when someone who appears to be not-in-the-best-shape makes comments on me eating avocados or nuts or whole eggs (the yolk and all!) or some other thing like that and they claim that it is "high fat - you shouldn't eat it!". Fruits - "too much sugar!". Whole eggs - "the yolks will kill you!". Although I think this may be the types of things they hear from their doctors or some widely accepted (but incorrect) nutritional advice.

Me - I prefer to eat whole natural foods in a balanced way. I usually just stare back at them because, at least from outward appearances, I think I am healthier than they are. But who really knows...I could drop dead tomorrow from eating avocados, nuts, and whole eggs. No one really knows others' internal health.

As long as you don't abuse on eating avocados, nuts and eggs, it is still better than eatin Doritos, Coca Cola and chocolate that most people prefer to eat.

I feel really bad for these people.  Some of them honestly believe that there is too much sugar in fruit, or fat in an avocado and end up making the decision to eat processed junk instead.  There is so much misinformation about diet out there, it's not surprising that many people develop radically skewed ideas about food and eating.

[dycker1978]

Aargh- I used to sit opposite the most negative, draining woman ever. She was overweight,  loudly claimed it was thyroid (nope, it's the cakes you shove into your gaping maw daily), and would critique every piece of food I brought in, looking for the unhealthy stuff, and then exclaim about the sugary/fatty parts of my lunch, and oh, aren't you lucky, wouldn't it be nice to have a metabolism like yours??? Drove me nuts. I used to put a square of chocolate in my oats each morning in lieu of sweetener, and god, she never failed to tell the whole office about my 'chocolatey' breakfast (never mind the hour I spent in the gym before work, and that it was 10grams of chocolate). She would point out my bananas and handful of nuts and smugly tell me they were way too full of sugar/fat for her, but ooh, lucky naturally skinny you, you can eat it. I wanted to smother her. Sorry, a bit OT. Coworkers.

I believe I've posted this here before, but I have _never_ gotten unsolicited advice on my diet or exercise from someone who was actually fit.

I also find it frustrating when someone who appears to be not-in-the-best-shape makes comments on me eating avocados or nuts or whole eggs (the yolk and all!) or some other thing like that and they claim that it is "high fat - you shouldn't eat it!". Fruits - "too much sugar!". Whole eggs - "the yolks will kill you!". Although I think this may be the types of things they hear from their doctors or some widely accepted (but incorrect) nutritional advice.

Me - I prefer to eat whole natural foods in a balanced way. I usually just stare back at them because, at least from outward appearances, I think I am healthier than they are. But who really knows...I could drop dead tomorrow from eating avocados, nuts, and whole eggs. No one really knows others' internal health.

As long as you don't abuse on eating avocados, nuts and eggs, it is still better than eatin Doritos, Coca Cola and chocolate that most people prefer to eat.

I feel really bad for these people.  Some of them honestly believe that there is too much sugar in fruit, or fat in an avocado and end up making the decision to eat processed junk instead.  There is so much misinformation about diet out there, it's not surprising that many people develop radically skewed ideas about food and eating.

At the risk of getting foamy... I agree with this.  Eating fat is not the issue, eating sugar is not the issue.  The issue is that we have gotten everything out of whack.  Omega 6 fat is supposed to be consumed in about a 4:1 ratio with omega 3 fat.  We are consuming it about 16:1.  This is because of the way that we are processing everything.  I remember as a kid, picking a carrot out of the garden we grew, whipping it on my pants, and eating it...dirt and all.  If you allowed that today, you would be a bad parent.  We need to go back to a simpler time.   

Simpler for food.  Simpler because we did not seem to need all of the useless stuff we "need" now.  So I guess less stuff, more cash flow, better food... Hmm I might be on to something.

[MgoSam]

Aargh- I used to sit opposite the most negative, draining woman ever. She was overweight,  loudly claimed it was thyroid (nope, it's the cakes you shove into your gaping maw daily), and would critique every piece of food I brought in, looking for the unhealthy stuff, and then exclaim about the sugary/fatty parts of my lunch, and oh, aren't you lucky, wouldn't it be nice to have a metabolism like yours??? Drove me nuts. I used to put a square of chocolate in my oats each morning in lieu of sweetener, and god, she never failed to tell the whole office about my 'chocolatey' breakfast (never mind the hour I spent in the gym before work, and that it was 10grams of chocolate). She would point out my bananas and handful of nuts and smugly tell me they were way too full of sugar/fat for her, but ooh, lucky naturally skinny you, you can eat it. I wanted to smother her. Sorry, a bit OT. Coworkers.

I believe I've posted this here before, but I have _never_ gotten unsolicited advice on my diet or exercise from someone who was actually fit.

I also find it frustrating when someone who appears to be not-in-the-best-shape makes comments on me eating avocados or nuts or whole eggs (the yolk and all!) or some other thing like that and they claim that it is "high fat - you shouldn't eat it!". Fruits - "too much sugar!". Whole eggs - "the yolks will kill you!". Although I think this may be the types of things they hear from their doctors or some widely accepted (but incorrect) nutritional advice.

Me - I prefer to eat whole natural foods in a balanced way. I usually just stare back at them because, at least from outward appearances, I think I am healthier than they are. But who really knows...I could drop dead tomorrow from eating avocados, nuts, and whole eggs. No one really knows others' internal health.

As long as you don't abuse on eating avocados, nuts and eggs, it is still better than eatin Doritos, Coca Cola and chocolate that most people prefer to eat.

I feel really bad for these people.  Some of them honestly believe that there is too much sugar in fruit, or fat in an avocado and end up making the decision to eat processed junk instead.  There is so much misinformation about diet out there, it's not surprising that many people develop radically skewed ideas about food and eating.

At the risk of getting foamy... I agree with this.  Eating fat is not the issue, eating sugar is not the issue.  The issue is that we have gotten everything out of whack.  Omega 6 fat is supposed to be consumed in about a 4:1 ratio with omega 3 fat.  We are consuming it about 16:1.  This is because of the way that we are processing everything.  I remember as a kid, picking a carrot out of the garden we grew, whipping it on my pants, and eating it...dirt and all.  If you allowed that today, you would be a bad parent.  We need to go back to a simpler time.   

Simpler for food.  Simpler because we did not seem to need all of the useless stuff we "need" now.  So I guess less stuff, more cash flow, better food... Hmm I might be on to something.

I find obesity to be similar to people that can't save. It's a simple matter of what matters to each of us individually. The fat women with 'tyroid' problems, is like someone who complains that they can't save their earnings even though they may make 30k more than their mustachain coworker. She may think that skinny people are lucky, and I'm guessing that she will think that people that FIRE in their 30s are depraved or come from money or have some special skill that mere mortals like her lack.

I will admit I lose my patience with such people and have stopped being idle and just nodding at their comments. My coworkers are pretty good about not making stupid comments, but I have a salesmen that will not shut up about anything and I have had to become harsh with him about it. The fat coworker mentioned by 11ducks is lucky I don't work with her, I'm usually pretty quick to say, "No I"m not fit by luck, I'm fit because I don't stuff a cake down my throat. Next time you mention my foot, I'll mention your food."

[dycker1978]

Aargh- I used to sit opposite the most negative, draining woman ever. She was overweight,  loudly claimed it was thyroid (nope, it's the cakes you shove into your gaping maw daily), and would critique every piece of food I brought in, looking for the unhealthy stuff, and then exclaim about the sugary/fatty parts of my lunch, and oh, aren't you lucky, wouldn't it be nice to have a metabolism like yours??? Drove me nuts. I used to put a square of chocolate in my oats each morning in lieu of sweetener, and god, she never failed to tell the whole office about my 'chocolatey' breakfast (never mind the hour I spent in the gym before work, and that it was 10grams of chocolate). She would point out my bananas and handful of nuts and smugly tell me they were way too full of sugar/fat for her, but ooh, lucky naturally skinny you, you can eat it. I wanted to smother her. Sorry, a bit OT. Coworkers.

I believe I've posted this here before, but I have _never_ gotten unsolicited advice on my diet or exercise from someone who was actually fit.

I also find it frustrating when someone who appears to be not-in-the-best-shape makes comments on me eating avocados or nuts or whole eggs (the yolk and all!) or some other thing like that and they claim that it is "high fat - you shouldn't eat it!". Fruits - "too much sugar!". Whole eggs - "the yolks will kill you!". Although I think this may be the types of things they hear from their doctors or some widely accepted (but incorrect) nutritional advice.

Me - I prefer to eat whole natural foods in a balanced way. I usually just stare back at them because, at least from outward appearances, I think I am healthier than they are. But who really knows...I could drop dead tomorrow from eating avocados, nuts, and whole eggs. No one really knows others' internal health.

As long as you don't abuse on eating avocados, nuts and eggs, it is still better than eatin Doritos, Coca Cola and chocolate that most people prefer to eat.

I feel really bad for these people.  Some of them honestly believe that there is too much sugar in fruit, or fat in an avocado and end up making the decision to eat processed junk instead.  There is so much misinformation about diet out there, it's not surprising that many people develop radically skewed ideas about food and eating.

At the risk of getting foamy... I agree with this.  Eating fat is not the issue, eating sugar is not the issue.  The issue is that we have gotten everything out of whack.  Omega 6 fat is supposed to be consumed in about a 4:1 ratio with omega 3 fat.  We are consuming it about 16:1.  This is because of the way that we are processing everything.  I remember as a kid, picking a carrot out of the garden we grew, whipping it on my pants, and eating it...dirt and all.  If you allowed that today, you would be a bad parent.  We need to go back to a simpler time.   

Simpler for food.  Simpler because we did not seem to need all of the useless stuff we "need" now.  So I guess less stuff, more cash flow, better food... Hmm I might be on to something.

I find obesity to be similar to people that can't save. It's a simple matter of what matters to each of us individually. The fat women with 'tyroid' problems, is like someone who complains that they can't save their earnings even though they may make 30k more than their mustachain coworker. She may think that skinny people are lucky, and I'm guessing that she will think that people that FIRE in their 30s are depraved or come from money or have some special skill that mere mortals like her lack.

I will admit I lose my patience with such people and have stopped being idle and just nodding at their comments. My coworkers are pretty good about not making stupid comments, but I have a salesmen that will not shut up about anything and I have had to become harsh with him about it. The fat coworker mentioned by 11ducks is lucky I don't work with her, I'm usually pretty quick to say, "No I"m not fit by luck, I'm fit because I don't stuff a cake down my throat. Next time you mention my foot, I'll mention your food."

I get some of your point.  There can be issues with thyroid... it can up your weight by something like 3-4%.  No really a big deal.  But, companies now have perfected making food, so it is addicting.  Did you know that sugar, fat mix in processed food activates the same regions of the brain as does cocaine.  I get that you can change, but as someone who has recently, it is hard and requires a lifestyle change.
/foam

My co worker has just bought a 2500 sq foot house that has a 1400 sq ft shop in the back yard.(My house is only 1050 sq feet). It also has a 3 car garage attached to the front of the house. He has both of them full of all the stuff he and his SO has accumulated over the years.  He doesn't even have room for his cars in the garage, and has to park them on the street.

They have decided that they need to renovate the new house.  So first thing he talks about is the $15000 gas cooktop that they "need" for the kitchen.  Then they are going to change one of the bedrooms, into a walk in closet for the master bed room.  They have gotten a blue print of the house and are making it into a feature wall in this closet.  It will be etched on glass.  Total cost of the closet, according to him $30000.

Wow...$30000 for a place to store your clothes....

There is more... Much more.  But it hurts to go on.

[MgoSam]

I get some of your point.  There can be issues with thyroid... it can up your weight by something like 3-4%.  No really a big deal.  But, companies now have perfected making food, so it is addicting.  Did you know that sugar, fat mix in processed food activates the same regions of the brain as does cocaine.  I get that you can change, but as someone who has recently, it is hard and requires a lifestyle change.
/foam

I understand your point entirely and don't mean to discount someone's health concerns. I'm aware of how food companies have become among the biggest drug dealers in the world, and my reaction was to be more conscious of what I put into my body. Though I work out a good amount, I will admit that I am overweight due to eating foods that I shouldn't...but I understand that this is on me, and no one else. It may be hard to overcome thyroid problems, but it certainly can be done. I know a girl that was about 280 pounds in college, I didn't know her then but was amazed at hearing this because when I had met her (5 years after she graduated) she had lost half of that weight by exercising, eating healthy, and taking medication for her thyroid (this is just an example, I don't know specifics of her case or anyone's, so don't know how typical this result is). The point I'm making it is that nothing in life is easy and there will always be obstacles. While the result you want may be unfeasible, I believe that that instead of complaining, we would be better off if we worked out butts off to try to overcome them.

[fartface]

CW was just recognized for 30 years of service. Uhhh...WHY are you still working after 30 years? Nevermind. We get to talking about our kids. She has two sons. One just graduated college and the other just finished his 2nd or 3rd year. Both sons have moved home for summer. She complained that they're total slobs and have doubled her grocery bill -- this in the first 5 mins of our conversation.

ME: So what's the graduate up to?
CW: Well, he has a part-time job.  He's saving up for a trip to Europe in 8 months and didn't want to commit to an employer and then have to resign.
ME: Oh
CW: Yeah, it's so nice to only have to pay for one kid in college.
ME: Oh, you helped your boys with college? So that means no student loans then, at least?
CW: Heavens no...we could only help so much. Both boys have HUGE loans. At least the oldest has finally started paying for his own gas. We told him he'd have to after he decided to lease a new car.
ME: (gulping for air) So...you paid for his car, gas, insurance all through college? Do you pay their cell phone bills too?
CW: Well, yeah, of course...

So, I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and I can't. The 24 year old graduate will only take a part-time job because he wants to spend a month or more in Europe next year. He just leased a car. Has thousands in student loans. Mooches terribly off his parents. And everybody is fine with the whole situation. Meanwhile, his dear old mom is slaving away at a high stress job and taking extra work over summer to "pay the bills". Seriously?

[dycker1978]

I get some of your point.  There can be issues with thyroid... it can up your weight by something like 3-4%.  No really a big deal.  But, companies now have perfected making food, so it is addicting.  Did you know that sugar, fat mix in processed food activates the same regions of the brain as does cocaine.  I get that you can change, but as someone who has recently, it is hard and requires a lifestyle change.
/foam

I understand your point entirely and don't mean to discount someone's health concerns. I'm aware of how food companies have become among the biggest drug dealers in the world, and my reaction was to be more conscious of what I put into my body. Though I work out a good amount, I will admit that I am overweight due to eating foods that I shouldn't...but I understand that this is on me, and no one else. It may be hard to overcome thyroid problems, but it certainly can be done. I know a girl that was about 280 pounds in college, I didn't know her then but was amazed at hearing this because when I had met her (5 years after she graduated) she had lost half of that weight by exercising, eating healthy, and taking medication for her thyroid (this is just an example, I don't know specifics of her case or anyone's, so don't know how typical this result is). The point I'm making it is that nothing in life is easy and there will always be obstacles. While the result you want may be unfeasible, I believe that that instead of complaining, we would be better off if we worked out butts off to try to overcome them.

We are making the same point in different ways... even with a thyroid issue you can lose weight.  And you are right, noting in life is easy, but the things that are hard make us stronger and better people.

[dycker1978]

CW was just recognized for 30 years of service. Uhhh...WHY are you still working after 30 years? Nevermind. We get to talking about our kids. She has two sons. One just graduated college and the other just finished his 2nd or 3rd year. Both sons have moved home for summer. She complained that they're total slobs and have doubled her grocery bill -- this in the first 5 mins of our conversation.

ME: So what's the graduate up to?
CW: Well, he has a part-time job.  He's saving up for a trip to Europe in 8 months and didn't want to commit to an employer and then have to resign.
ME: Oh
CW: Yeah, it's so nice to only have to pay for one kid in college.
ME: Oh, you helped your boys with college? So that means no student loans then, at least?
CW: Heavens no...we could only help so much. Both boys have HUGE loans. At least the oldest has finally started paying for his own gas. We told him he'd have to after he decided to lease a new car.
ME: (gulping for air) So...you paid for his car, gas, insurance all through college? Do you pay their cell phone bills too?
CW: Well, yeah, of course...

So, I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and I can't. The 24 year old graduate will only take a part-time job because he wants to spend a month or more in Europe next year. He just leased a car. Has thousands in student loans. Mooches terribly off his parents. And everybody is fine with the whole situation. Meanwhile, his dear old mom is slaving away at a high stress job and taking extra work over summer to "pay the bills". Seriously?

We have to give our kids the best right?

Seriously though... maybe let the kid make mistakes and learn.  Stop babying the kids and let them become an adult.  If you want productive members of society then you must allow them to be.  I moved from home when I was 18, struggled to make it paying rent and what ever.  I knew that my parents would never let me starve, but I did not ask for money because I was an idiot.    I did have 2 weeks once where all I ate was KD and hot dogs because that was all I could afford after spending my cheque on stupid stuff.  I was OK.  ARG... if we keep babying people, we will get babies.

/rant

[iamlindoro]

CW was just recognized for 30 years of service. Uhhh...WHY are you still working after 30 years? Nevermind. We get to talking about our kids. She has two sons. One just graduated college and the other just finished his 2nd or 3rd year. Both sons have moved home for summer. She complained that they're total slobs and have doubled her grocery bill -- this in the first 5 mins of our conversation.

ME: So what's the graduate up to?
CW: Well, he has a part-time job.  He's saving up for a trip to Europe in 8 months and didn't want to commit to an employer and then have to resign.
ME: Oh
CW: Yeah, it's so nice to only have to pay for one kid in college.
ME: Oh, you helped your boys with college? So that means no student loans then, at least?
CW: Heavens no...we could only help so much. Both boys have HUGE loans. At least the oldest has finally started paying for his own gas. We told him he'd have to after he decided to lease a new car.
ME: (gulping for air) So...you paid for his car, gas, insurance all through college? Do you pay their cell phone bills too?
CW: Well, yeah, of course...

So, I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and I can't. The 24 year old graduate will only take a part-time job because he wants to spend a month or more in Europe next year. He just leased a car. Has thousands in student loans. Mooches terribly off his parents. And everybody is fine with the whole situation. Meanwhile, his dear old mom is slaving away at a high stress job and taking extra work over summer to "pay the bills". Seriously?

Being a mustachian too, I totally get where you're coming from.  I think we've got to try not to get to myopic, though, as this is very common both in terms of parenting behavior and young adult behavior.  I would wager that a vast majority of parents pay for their kids gas, cell phone bills, and other incidentals during college.  I would stake the same amount on most kids relying more on loans than parental contributions.

The Europe trip is less widespread, but still pretty common.  Hey, I did it.  In fact, with a few notable exceptions (I was paying my own living costs) this could totally be me.  Got out of school, worked a part time job, saved up, went and lived in Europe for almost a year.

As I said, I get what you're saying here-- just wanted to call out that this forum is most fun when it's the truly outrageous rather than emphasizing behavior that is common and (compared to some of the crazier stories) not all that self destructive.  Heck, even as a mustachian I could see myself paying gas, food, and cell phone for my kids when they're in college.  I'd probably encourage travel abroad, too, though I would insist on them covering their living expenses as they saved.

[merula]

I did have 2 weeks once where all I ate was KD and hot dogs because that was all I could afford after spending my cheque on stupid stuff. 

KD?  What is that?

Given than the author is Canadian, I'm going to assume Kraft Dinner, aka Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.

[Kevin S.]

I did have 2 weeks once where all I ate was KD and hot dogs because that was all I could afford after spending my cheque on stupid stuff. 

KD?  What is that?

guessing kraft dinner?

[dycker1978]

I did have 2 weeks once where all I ate was KD and hot dogs because that was all I could afford after spending my cheque on stupid stuff. 

KD?  What is that?

Given than the author is Canadian, I'm going to assume Kraft Dinner, aka Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.

Yup no name brand comes on sale for about .25 a box.

[Sam E]

CW was just recognized for 30 years of service. Uhhh...WHY are you still working after 30 years? Nevermind. We get to talking about our kids. She has two sons. One just graduated college and the other just finished his 2nd or 3rd year. Both sons have moved home for summer. She complained that they're total slobs and have doubled her grocery bill -- this in the first 5 mins of our conversation.

ME: So what's the graduate up to?
CW: Well, he has a part-time job.  He's saving up for a trip to Europe in 8 months and didn't want to commit to an employer and then have to resign.
ME: Oh
CW: Yeah, it's so nice to only have to pay for one kid in college.
ME: Oh, you helped your boys with college? So that means no student loans then, at least?
CW: Heavens no...we could only help so much. Both boys have HUGE loans. At least the oldest has finally started paying for his own gas. We told him he'd have to after he decided to lease a new car.
ME: (gulping for air) So...you paid for his car, gas, insurance all through college? Do you pay their cell phone bills too?
CW: Well, yeah, of course...

So, I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and I can't. The 24 year old graduate will only take a part-time job because he wants to spend a month or more in Europe next year. He just leased a car. Has thousands in student loans. Mooches terribly off his parents. And everybody is fine with the whole situation. Meanwhile, his dear old mom is slaving away at a high stress job and taking extra work over summer to "pay the bills". Seriously?

Being a mustachian too, I totally get where you're coming from.  I think we've got to try not to get to myopic, though, as this is very common both in terms of parenting behavior and young adult behavior.  I would wager that a vast majority of parents pay for their kids gas, cell phone bills, and other incidentals during college.  I would stake the same amount on most kids relying more on loans than parental contributions.

The Europe trip is less widespread, but still pretty common.  Hey, I did it.  In fact, with a few notable exceptions (I was paying my own living costs) this could totally be me.  Got out of school, worked a part time job, saved up, went and lived in Europe for almost a year.

As I said, I get what you're saying here-- just wanted to call out that this forum is most fun when it's the truly outrageous rather than emphasizing behavior that is common and (compared to some of the crazier stories) not all that self destructive.  Heck, even as a mustachian I could see myself paying gas, food, and cell phone for my kids when they're in college.  I'd probably encourage travel abroad, too, though I would insist on them covering their living expenses as they saved.

You're right that this is a common style of parenting, but it doesn't require a Mustachian to take issue with it. My parents raised me such that they expected by the time I was a teenager that if I wanted something, I could pay for it. They told me very early on, if I wanted a cell phone I'd have to buy it. If I wanted a driver's license, I'd be paying for the driver's ed, license fees, gas I use, and my portion of the insurance -- if I couldn't afford it, they'd be happy to give me rides as needed or tell me to walk/bike wherever. If I wanted a car, same deal: Get a job, save up, pay for a car; until then I can borrow theirs when I need it. Of course my parents would pay for things for me, within reason, and help out on certain things, because they were reasonable people. But the overarching principle was, "If you want it, you must also be willing to work for it." It's not about Mustachianism or frugality, it's just about giving your kids the tools to grow into responsible, independent, able, working adults.

[iamlindoro]

You're right that this is a common style of parenting, but it doesn't require a Mustachian to take issue with it. My parents raised me such that they expected by the time I was a teenager that if I wanted something, I could pay for it. They told me very early on, if I wanted a cell phone I'd have to buy it. If I wanted a driver's license, I'd be paying for the driver's ed, license fees, gas I use, and my portion of the insurance -- if I couldn't afford it, they'd be happy to give me rides as needed or tell me to walk/bike wherever. If I wanted a car, same deal: Get a job, save up, pay for a car; until then I can borrow theirs when I need it. Of course my parents would pay for things for me, within reason, and help out on certain things, because they were reasonable people. But the overarching principle was, "If you want it, you must also be willing to work for it." It's not about Mustachianism or frugality, it's just about giving your kids the tools to grow into responsible, independent, able, working adults.

I can't find a single sentence here I disagree with.  My point was just that if we take commonplace and marginally destructive behaviors and raise them to the level of "hall of shame," it removes all nuance from our ability to judge these things and we risk becoming shrill and myopic.  I don't think what was described is the right way to parent/spend, but I also want to try to retain some semblance of perspective.

[Joggernot]

I get some of your point.  There can be issues with thyroid... it can up your weight by something like 3-4%.  No really a big deal.  But, companies now have perfected making food, so it is addicting.  Did you know that sugar, fat mix in processed food activates the same regions of the brain as does cocaine.  I get that you can change, but as someone who has recently, it is hard and requires a lifestyle change.
/foam

I understand your point entirely and don't mean to discount someone's health concerns. I'm aware of how food companies have become among the biggest drug dealers in the world, and my reaction was to be more conscious of what I put into my body. Though I work out a good amount, I will admit that I am overweight due to eating foods that I shouldn't...but I understand that this is on me, and no one else. It may be hard to overcome thyroid problems, but it certainly can be done. I know a girl that was about 280 pounds in college, I didn't know her then but was amazed at hearing this because when I had met her (5 years after she graduated) she had lost half of that weight by exercising, eating healthy, and taking medication for her thyroid (this is just an example, I don't know specifics of her case or anyone's, so don't know how typical this result is). The point I'm making it is that nothing in life is easy and there will always be obstacles. While the result you want may be unfeasible, I believe that that instead of complaining, we would be better off if we worked out butts off to try to overcome them.

We are making the same point in different ways... even with a thyroid issue you can lose weight.  And you are right, noting in life is easy, but the things that are hard make us stronger and better people.

As a male whose thyroid died because of a side affect from other medication, I can give first hand notice that when the thyroid medicine was prescribed, my energy level almost doubled, and the extra things I was able to do helped get the weight back off.  Low thyroid saps your energy and it becomes a vicious circle.  I don't think I would have been able to work through it and become stronger.  The medicine was very needed.

[dividend]

I was talking to one of my cube-mates about upcoming summer plans, and how busy the summer is.  I've got a weekend in NYC this month, a a week in Germany in July, and 2 full weeks in Hawaii in September.  He literally said, "What are you, a millionaire?"  I started to explain about gaming credit cards for airline miles, and VRBO, and the ridiculously good deal I got by patiently Pricelining a car in Honolulu.  And I very pointedly did not explain that after the husband and I save/invest 50% of our take home we budget our vacations separately (because that's not anyone's business).  But people really assume that you can't do both. 

I have another co-worker that I've been friends with for 10+ years.  I've always told him I was going to retire at 45 (I'm 34).  I think he used to think I was joking, but the other day he asked me, in front of our boss, if that was still my plan.  I said probably.  My boss looked dumbfounded.  He said, "I don't understand how people retire."  I thought he meant, what do people do with their time?  But then he went on, "I can't imagine having enough money to not work."  Eek.  (My boss is probably 25 years older than me.)  My co-worker chimed in to point out that I have always lived well below my income, and my boss looked at me for a moment before he had like this light bulb moment and said, "Oh, that's why you can take those lavish vacations every year!"  Because apparently, I'm the only one in the office who takes 2 weeks at a time off to go somewhere interesting.  I so wanted to explain that, no, I don't live far below my means and then spend the difference on vacations, I figure out ways to travel that fit my budget after I meet my savings goals.  But again, none of this makes any sense to people.

Also, a few months ago, we started be able to expense our cell phone bills since we take company e-mails on them.  After the first round was submitted, my boss asked me why mine was so much less then everyone else's.  I use Republic Wireless, and my bill was like $31.12.  Apparently, every other person on our team had submitted up to the $70 max, and he was flabbergasted that I had such cheap cell service. 

In January, we had to travel for an orientation.  We weren't in the travel expense system yet, so were were asked in December to book our own flights and we would be reimbursed.  I was astounded at the number of people who protested that they couldn't possibly afford a plane ticket in the same month as Christmas. 

Same coworker who outed me as a Mustachian decided to buy a new car, because his car was 5 years old.  Discussed the process at length in our cubicle.  Highlights include - "I've just accepted that I'll always have a car payment,"  the rational that by the time you've paid off a new car it has fallen out of warranty and you'll have to start paying for adhoc repairs, and his wife deciding as he shopped for a car that she missed her old VW and deciding to purchase a VW Jetta at the same time.  I'm currently in negotiations with my local Honda dealership to get the price of a 2015 Fit down to $10k after trade so I can buy it with cash.  I'm taking me time, since mine is only 8 years old and I don't NEED a new one, but the new one is purple and has 8 years newer fancy features.  Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

One more.  Same two cube-mates discussing Soylent (the geeky meal replacement powdered shakes) as an alternative to actually cooking meals.  I said that it was pretty expensive.  They looked online and found that it would cost $9-10 per person per day, and they both agreed that seemed pretty reasonable.  I said that's more than I budget for groceries for my husband and I per person, how did it compare to their grocery budgets?  Blank stares.  Crickets.  I asked what their grocery budgets were, and both of them looked at me like they didn't understand the question.  Why would you have a grocery budget?  Well, to know how much I have to spend on food.  We make IT money, we can afford to buy groceries.   

I love my cube-mates dearly.  But I'm clearly an alien and now I try very hard to not get drawn into these kinds of conversations. 

[dandarc]

One more.  Same two cube-mates discussing Soylent (the geeky meal replacement powdered shakes) as an alternative to actually cooking meals.

Just remember to tell them to stay away from anything green that comes out of those packets.

Seriously - clever name for the product, and that company be well positioned when the dystopian future finally arrives.

[partgypsy]

Aargh- I used to sit opposite the most negative, draining woman ever. She was overweight,  loudly claimed it was thyroid (nope, it's the cakes you shove into your gaping maw daily), and would critique every piece of food I brought in, looking for the unhealthy stuff, and then exclaim about the sugary/fatty parts of my lunch, and oh, aren't you lucky, wouldn't it be nice to have a metabolism like yours??? Drove me nuts. I used to put a square of chocolate in my oats each morning in lieu of sweetener, and god, she never failed to tell the whole office about my 'chocolatey' breakfast (never mind the hour I spent in the gym before work, and that it was 10grams of chocolate). She would point out my bananas and handful of nuts and smugly tell me they were way too full of sugar/fat for her, but ooh, lucky naturally skinny you, you can eat it. I wanted to smother her. Sorry, a bit OT. Coworkers.

I believe I've posted this here before, but I have _never_ gotten unsolicited advice on my diet or exercise from someone who was actually fit.

I also find it frustrating when someone who appears to be not-in-the-best-shape makes comments on me eating avocados or nuts or whole eggs (the yolk and all!) or some other thing like that and they claim that it is "high fat - you shouldn't eat it!". Fruits - "too much sugar!". Whole eggs - "the yolks will kill you!". Although I think this may be the types of things they hear from their doctors or some widely accepted (but incorrect) nutritional advice.

Me - I prefer to eat whole natural foods in a balanced way. I usually just stare back at them because, at least from outward appearances, I think I am healthier than they are. But who really knows...I could drop dead tomorrow from eating avocados, nuts, and whole eggs. No one really knows others' internal health.

I never make comments about what I eat, but for some reason there was a period of time (usually overweight) women loved to make comments about what I was eating: "you put beets on your salad? Those are really high in sugar". "I never eat peanut m'ms, only regular m m's, nuts are fattening". "Dried fruit is really high in calories you know". "I wish I could eat what you eat, but I have low glycemic index (self-diagnosed) sugar so I need to eat less carbs" (ordering fried chicken on top of a lettuce salad, drenched with dressing). These were the same people who were literally on some diet all the time, and would love to inform you how this is how you should eat. The particular diet would change around every 6 months. Me, I believe everything in moderation, dieting doesn't help, and that regular exercise is more important than following some ideal food diet, as long as minimize the junk food, fast food and sodas. 

[I'm a red panda]

Yup no name brand comes on sale for about .25 a box.

This is the ONE thing I've found that I absolutely will not buy generic.

[Chris22]

I did have 2 weeks once where all I ate was KD and hot dogs because that was all I could afford after spending my cheque on stupid stuff. 

KD?  What is that?

Given than the author is Canadian, I'm going to assume Kraft Dinner, aka Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.

Yup no name brand comes on sale for about .25 a box.

Before my senior year in college, my buddies and I rented a house (had to live off campus senior year and had to do a 1-year lease, 9 months not available).  Well, as a 21y/o, obviously if there was a house to be lived in that wasn't with my parents, I was going to live there.  So I did.  My parents helped me out during school, but basically said "if you live at home during the summer you can eat our food for free, if you want to live at school, that's your choice, but you're paying for it."  Okay, no problem.  That's the summer I learned to watch for the 5/$3 sale on Kraft M&C, and I learned where all the ATMs that allowed a $10 withdrawl were instead of $20, etc.  My roommates and I would store up change and go to bars with $.50 drink specials every night, we'd put $2 in one pocket for train fare home and the other pocket would have drinking money, but then you'd be talking to girls and run out of drinking money and make the drunken choice to hoof it back 5 miles (or try to find a closer bed with "companionship") instead of taking the train and drink that last $2....

Those were the days.  Loved it. 

[Joshin]

I find obesity to be similar to people that can't save. It's a simple matter of what matters to each of us individually. The fat women with 'tyroid' problems, is like someone who complains that they can't save their earnings even though they may make 30k more than their mustachain coworker. She may think that skinny people are lucky, and I'm guessing that she will think that people that FIRE in their 30s are depraved or come from money or have some special skill that mere mortals like her lack.

I hate to continue the foam, but I see so many misunderstandings of hypothyroidism that I can't let keep sliding by. While a low thyroid is only responsible for minimal weight gain, it is also responsible for major, major energy loss. When I was diagnosed and given meds, the first thing I noticed was an increase in energy, as in to crazy levels I hadn't felt since my mid-20's. The docs don't tell you this, and they don't tell you to take advantage of it right away, or you will adjust to it and stay lazy.

It's almost impossible to lose weight with no energy. I went from highly active hiking/backpacking and reasonable weight, to overweight and no activity, all over the course of a few years. It took several years for anyone to even mention the thyroid to me, so I though it wa age, lifestyle creep, and stress. I WAS overweight, I'm (almost) not now. I would have been physically and mentally incapable of losing the weight without constant monitoring of the thyroid and proper medication. That is what gave me the energy I needed to exercise both my body and my self restraint. Unfortunately, my experience when I was trying to find a Dr. was most of them saw this condition as a fat woman's disease that would just get worse because it was something fat, lazy women got. Really, it is a disease that can make previously thin, active women fat and lazy. We don't know why it happens, society judges us, out confidence tanks, and we accept the blame, because everyone knows only lazy people get fat.

[MgoSam]

I find obesity to be similar to people that can't save. It's a simple matter of what matters to each of us individually. The fat women with 'tyroid' problems, is like someone who complains that they can't save their earnings even though they may make 30k more than their mustachain coworker. She may think that skinny people are lucky, and I'm guessing that she will think that people that FIRE in their 30s are depraved or come from money or have some special skill that mere mortals like her lack.

I hate to continue the foam, but I see so many misunderstandings of hypothyroidism that I can't let keep sliding by. While a low thyroid is only responsible for minimal weight gain, it is also responsible for major, major energy loss. When I was diagnosed and given meds, the first thing I noticed was an increase in energy, as in to crazy levels I hadn't felt since my mid-20's. The docs don't tell you this, and they don't tell you to take advantage of it right away, or you will adjust to it and stay lazy.

It's almost impossible to lose weight with no energy. I went from highly active hiking/backpacking and reasonable weight, to overweight and no activity, all over the course of a few years. It took several years for anyone to even mention the thyroid to me, so I though it wa age, lifestyle creep, and stress. I WAS overweight, I'm (almost) not now. I would have been physically and mentally incapable of losing the weight without constant monitoring of the thyroid and proper medication. That is what gave me the energy I needed to exercise both my body and my self restraint. Unfortunately, my experience when I was trying to find a Dr. was most of them saw this condition as a fat woman's disease that would just get worse because it was something fat, lazy women got. Really, it is a disease that can make previously thin, active women fat and lazy. We don't know why it happens, society judges us, out confidence tanks, and we accept the blame, because everyone knows only lazy people get fat.

This makes a lot of sense and I'm sorry for your experience. Thank you for posting this, and I hope that none of my comments were out of line.

[BlueHouse]

I've got two in the past week.

1.  Can anyone lend me $600 for Yo Gabba Gabba tickets?  Child X really LOVES them but we can't afford to go.  Me "Holy CRAP a kids show is that expensive?!?!"  Her "Well, that's the first 15 rows and you get a back stage VIP pass, only the best for child X (who is all of maybe 3 and won't remember anything about this meeting"  Mind you I am pretty sure they are still paying off around 60k in credit card debt that she wracked up before getting married.

2.  Co Worker who gets in large boxes from fancy stores all the time and routinely spends hundreds a week on clothes.   "Ugh, our home health aid wants a raise, I TOLD her 4 years ago when we hired her there would be no raises because we can't afford it".  Me: "Well how much are you paying her"  Her "800 a month for both of my parents who are on dialysis and live in NYC"  Her and her husband pull in over 200k (probably closer to 250) a year combined, this aid takes care of her parents 24-7 365 because she doesn't want to have to deal with them and when I asked she swore poverty that she couldn't afford an extra 50 a month to pay this woman (under the table mind you)...aaaand she just spent 3k, on a couch that she was flashing pictures in the office of...  We continued to talk and I brought up early retirement and got the "I don't know how you can save on our crappy salaries, we can only save 300 a month"....she earns about 20-30k more a year than me, and I'm pushing 90 a year.

I misread #2 at first.  I thought Co worker got INTO boxes so that perhaps she could entertain her young children by jumping out of them instead of taking them to a silly concert.  Honestly, those Gabba Gabba things are costumes!  put a pillowcase over your head, draw eyes on them, and dance around for your youngster.  They don't know the difference (or maybe they just don't care because it's still entertainment).

My mom tells a story all the time about how she fooled me when I was 3 or 4 and wanted a certain doll for Christmas. "Baby Go Bye Bye".  She said it's all I ever spoke of.  When she finally found it, she was appalled by how expensive it was and how flimsy it was and refused to pay the price.  So she found a very inexpensive toy car and a cheap baby doll that she said was much much nicer.  The baby didn't come anywhere close to fitting into the car, they were two completely different scales.  But when I saw it on Xmas morning, I screamed with delight and never knew the difference. 

Kids do not know the difference between the real thing and a substitute.  And I have absolutely no recollection of anything at 3 years old anyway.  I do know that I ended up drawing all over that baby's face with permanent marker though. 

[Kris]

Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

Lolwut?

What could his rationale have possibly been?  I am very curious!

[wenchsenior]

I find obesity to be similar to people that can't save. It's a simple matter of what matters to each of us individually. The fat women with 'tyroid' problems, is like someone who complains that they can't save their earnings even though they may make 30k more than their mustachain coworker. She may think that skinny people are lucky, and I'm guessing that she will think that people that FIRE in their 30s are depraved or come from money or have some special skill that mere mortals like her lack.

I hate to continue the foam, but I see so many misunderstandings of hypothyroidism that I can't let keep sliding by. While a low thyroid is only responsible for minimal weight gain, it is also responsible for major, major energy loss. When I was diagnosed and given meds, the first thing I noticed was an increase in energy, as in to crazy levels I hadn't felt since my mid-20's. The docs don't tell you this, and they don't tell you to take advantage of it right away, or you will adjust to it and stay lazy.

It's almost impossible to lose weight with no energy. I went from highly active hiking/backpacking and reasonable weight, to overweight and no activity, all over the course of a few years. It took several years for anyone to even mention the thyroid to me, so I though it wa age, lifestyle creep, and stress. I WAS overweight, I'm (almost) not now. I would have been physically and mentally incapable of losing the weight without constant monitoring of the thyroid and proper medication. That is what gave me the energy I needed to exercise both my body and my self restraint. Unfortunately, my experience when I was trying to find a Dr. was most of them saw this condition as a fat woman's disease that would just get worse because it was something fat, lazy women got. Really, it is a disease that can make previously thin, active women fat and lazy. We don't know why it happens, society judges us, out confidence tanks, and we accept the blame, because everyone knows only lazy people get fat.

For skipping over purposes: FOAM ALERT...

Just adding to the foam to agree. My husband developed hypothyroid in his early 40s...he had always been super active, and all of a sudden he wanted to sleep all the time. He gained some weight...but the problem was mostly his fitness level plummeted. With medication, he went back to to normal.

Weight is such a crazy combo of genetic, environmental, and behavioral factors. In addition to medical conditions (diabetes, PCOS, and pituitary disorders also can contribute to/cause weight gain in kind of a chicken/egg cycle), bodies often have plateau weights that they 'like'.  I'm 5'4" and 102 lbs at 44 years old, which is the same weight as I was in college.  I would love to take a lot of credit for this, but it's somewhat a fluke of my metabolism. I'm not a very consistent or intense exerciser, but I do eat generally unprocessed, plant-heavy diet. I eat a lot of healthy fats. My weight is a little too low, but right now, I can't GAIN weight (except by weight training)...I actively tried for 9 months and finally gave up. I just can't eat enough food except by liquid calories, which I get sick of. My body just burns it off with no effort. At other times in my life my body seemed to cling effortlessly to my next highest 'plateau' weight of 113-115 lbs. I wasn't doing much different then...body just liked it there better when I was in my late 30s.

Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

[jba302]

"I wish I could eat what you eat, but I have low glycemic index (self-diagnosed) sugar so I need to eat less carbs"

[klystomane]

Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

Please don't take what I'm about to say personally...this is merely my observation.

I don't understand why somebody can't just "quit" food. I have three uncles who smoked for 10+ years and all three quit cold turkey, and this was back when all manly men smoked.

If you're not supposed to eat it, don't eat it.

If you can't stand being around it and can't control yourself, don't buy it, or, avoid it.

I have yet to personally meet somebody who is overweight (based on BMI) who does not have some sort of food indulgence that they should not be into (soda, cake, fatty foods etc.)...and I'm not even taking exercise into consideration.

The fittest guys (read thin) in my workplace are the ones that exercise regularly, and eat healthy. They are the ones that don't eat the cake from the monthly birthday parties, or partake in the unhealthy free breakfasts and lunches.

But then again, it could all just be a coincidence since my sample size is so small.

[dividend]

Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

Lolwut?

What could his rationale have possibly been?  I am very curious!

His argument is a mix  of :

• You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
• If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
• By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
• Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.

I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

[Indexer]

His argument is a mix  of :

• You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
• If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
• By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
• Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.

I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Um.... bullet point 1 would make sense if it was a house... but we are talking about a new car.  The car is depreciating.....  You are still losing money.

I don't even need to address the other 3 bullet points, at least not on this forum. 

[dycker1978]

Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

Please don't take what I'm about to say personally...this is merely my observation.

I don't understand why somebody can't just "quit" food. I have three uncles who smoked for 10+ years and all three quit cold turkey, and this was back when all manly men smoked.

If you're not supposed to eat it, don't eat it.

If you can't stand being around it and can't control yourself, don't buy it, or, avoid it.

I have yet to personally meet somebody who is overweight (based on BMI) who does not have some sort of food indulgence that they should not be into (soda, cake, fatty foods etc.)...and I'm not even taking exercise into consideration.

The fittest guys (read thin) in my workplace are the ones that exercise regularly, and eat healthy. They are the ones that don't eat the cake from the monthly birthday parties, or partake in the unhealthy free breakfasts and lunches.

But then again, it could all just be a coincidence since my sample size is so small.

Just an FYI Dwayne Johnston(the Rock from WWE) is obese according to BMI.  Not the best scale to measure on.

https://www.yahoo.com/health/why-dwayne-the-rock-johnson-is-technically-obese-117180855078.html

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I'm overweight based on BMI. I am 4'11" tall and weigh 127 pounds.

I do not overindulge in any one food. Obviously I overindulge a little in ALL of them and need to spend more time on my bike. But then, I don't think I "look" overweight by American standards these days, so maybe I'm not in the previous poster's sample.

[wenchsenior]

"I wish I could eat what you eat, but I have low glycemic index (self-diagnosed) sugar so I need to eat less carbs"

Think [ETA: partgypsy's coworker or whomever) probably means that he/she has reactive hypoglycemia, and therefore needs to eat foods low on the glycemic index to keep blood sugar from spiking and then crashing. I have the same condition. It is similar to eating how a diabetic would. But I realize you were commenting on the irony of the saturated fat].

[wenchsenior]

Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

Please don't take what I'm about to say personally...this is merely my observation.

I don't understand why somebody can't just "quit" food. I have three uncles who smoked for 10+ years and all three quit cold turkey, and this was back when all manly men smoked.

If you're not supposed to eat it, don't eat it.

If you can't stand being around it and can't control yourself, don't buy it, or, avoid it.

I have yet to personally meet somebody who is overweight (based on BMI) who does not have some sort of food indulgence that they should not be into (soda, cake, fatty foods etc.)...and I'm not even taking exercise into consideration.

The fittest guys (read thin) in my workplace are the ones that exercise regularly, and eat healthy. They are the ones that don't eat the cake from the monthly birthday parties, or partake in the unhealthy free breakfasts and lunches.

But then again, it could all just be a coincidence since my sample size is so small.

No, I generally agree with you. Most weight gain is totally preventable.

All I meant is, people have to eat food to live. You don't have to smoke or drink or do drugs or gamble or have sex or whatever to survive. Food is, for most people, also a source of IMMENSE pleasure, so even eating healthy foods, it's easy for some people slip into overindulgence.  I've also met some people who literally HATE the taste/texture of vegetables and fruit. This is an alien concept to me, but then, I find the fact that people don't want to eat salad 4 or 5 times a week baffling. That would be difficult hurdle to cross every day, forever.

But yes, exercise and eating well will keep most peoples' weight stable, and that requires some discipline and (mostly) just good habits. At least with me it's mostly habit.

[Pooperman]

Meh. Bodies are just so weird and individual that I  that I really hesitate to judge peoples' weight unless I regularly (like, nearly every day) see someone stuffing their face with processed or unhealthy food and know for sure they never exercise. And even then, food can be addictive...and unlike other substances, you can't 'quit' food, so you if you are susceptible to overeating, you are always at risk.

Please don't take what I'm about to say personally...this is merely my observation.

I don't understand why somebody can't just "quit" food. I have three uncles who smoked for 10+ years and all three quit cold turkey, and this was back when all manly men smoked.

If you're not supposed to eat it, don't eat it.

If you can't stand being around it and can't control yourself, don't buy it, or, avoid it.

I have yet to personally meet somebody who is overweight (based on BMI) who does not have some sort of food indulgence that they should not be into (soda, cake, fatty foods etc.)...and I'm not even taking exercise into consideration.

The fittest guys (read thin) in my workplace are the ones that exercise regularly, and eat healthy. They are the ones that don't eat the cake from the monthly birthday parties, or partake in the unhealthy free breakfasts and lunches.

But then again, it could all just be a coincidence since my sample size is so small.

No, I generally agree with you. Most weight gain is totally preventable.

All I meant is, people have to eat food to live. You don't have to smoke or drink or do drugs or gamble or have sex or whatever to survive. Food is, for most people, also a source of IMMENSE pleasure, so even eating healthy foods, it's easy for some people slip into overindulgence.  I've also met some people who literally HATE the taste/texture of vegetables and fruit. This is an alien concept to me, but then, I find the fact that people don't want to eat salad 4 or 5 times a week baffling. That would be difficult hurdle to cross every day, forever.

But yes, exercise and eating well will keep most peoples' weight stable, and that requires some discipline and (mostly) just good habits. At least with me it's mostly habit.

Pretty sure sex is a required part of survival. Not of yourself, but of your species.

[Migrator Soul]

Pretty sure sex is a required part of survival. Not of yourself, but of your species.

No, I am pretty sure its required for the survival of my sanity, and thus, by extension, myself. :D

[markbike528CBX]

....... My weight is a little too low, but right now, I can't GAIN weight (except by weight training)...I actively tried for 9 months and finally gave up. I just can't eat enough food except by liquid calories, which I get sick of. My body just burns it off with no effort.

Your answer is BEER.  --- at least it works for me  :-)

But seriously:
Hyperthyrodism?  Have you been to the doctor to check it out?

[grantmeaname]

Pretty sure sex is a required part of survival. Not of yourself, but of your species.

No, I am pretty sure its required for the survival of my sanity, and thus, by extension, myself. :D

Today's SMBC is very topical.

[Migrator Soul]

Pretty sure sex is a required part of survival. Not of yourself, but of your species.

No, I am pretty sure its required for the survival of my sanity, and thus, by extension, myself. :D

Today's SMBC is very topical.

You sir, have made my night.

[grantmeaname]

Glad to be of service.

[Kris]

Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

Lolwut?

What could his rationale have possibly been?  I am very curious!

His argument is a mix  of :

• You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
• If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
• By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
• Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.

I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ...

[Migrator Soul]

Said coworker keep trying to convince me that it's a terrible idea to pay cash for a car, and that he's much better off always driving a new car with payments and a warranty. 

Lolwut?

What could his rationale have possibly been?  I am very curious!

His argument is a mix  of :

• You're always better off borrowing money if the interest rate is less than inflation or then you can make investing it, otherwise you actually LOSE money.  Hint : he doesn' t actually invest the money.
• If the car ages out of warranty, then you have to start paying for maintenance yourself.  So clearly the better option is to always drive a new car with a warranty and then you never have to come up with money if the car needs repairs.  Instead of, ya know, having a budget line item for vehicle maintenance.
• By taking out a car loan, you get a five year newer, better car with tomorrow's dollars, which, presumably are going to worth less.
• Once you pay off your car loan, the money is already in your budget for the next one.

I adore him, but something I just can't even with him. 
We agreed to disagree about the second day of our friendship, and we've been having this same exact argument since 2006 when he went with me to buy the car I'm currently driving.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ...

Dude sounds like half the privates in my unit. If only they listened to me... one can dream, right?

[wenchsenior]

....... My weight is a little too low, but right now, I can't GAIN weight (except by weight training)...I actively tried for 9 months and finally gave up. I just can't eat enough food except by liquid calories, which I get sick of. My body just burns it off with no effort.

Your answer is BEER.  --- at least it works for me  :-)

But seriously:
Hyperthyrodism?  Have you been to the doctor to check it out?

HA! My mom keeps trying to get me to drink stout LOL, but I really only like beer occasionally. I drink wine with dinner, but that doesn't have quite a much an effect for weight gain. And yes, I've had all kinds of tests, repeatedly. I have a lot of mild, chronic health-related issues, some diagnosed, some possibly unid'd autoimmune that tests have never specifically diagnosed. I'm not sure my weight has any relation to that, though. Like I said, I was the same weight in college after dropping about 20 lbs from my high school weight. And I held it stable pretty easily back then, too.

[RunHappy]

At work I was listening to people brag about the length of their commutes.  One guy was 45 minutes, another was 1h 15m, another guy chimed in that they are looking at houses where the commute would be 1h 30m.