Overheard at Work

[MrsPotts]

I individually portion out dinner leftovers every night and put them into the tupperware rotation, but he takes them out of the fridge for lunch. Does that count as me packing his lunch?

It's not that I have anything against the concept of a wife packing her husband lunch. If you're handling the food anyway might as well. It's the idea that a man says he is incapable of doing so and needs a wife to do it. That's the ridiculous part. On various levels.

I've seen my boyfriend try to get food from a pot onto a plate. It's not pretty. I'm not sure he would be capable of dishing out leftovers into tupperwares, let alone cooking the food to begin with. I don't mind though, he does enough chores I hate to make up for it.

I do all of the dishing up at the Potts house, no matter who cooks, for the same reason.

[vivophoenix]

My credit score has been over 800 for years and with work travel I run LOTS of transactions on my personal cards.  Typically I pay off the balance every week or two - could not tell you when the closing statement date is.  I will also blip over 50% utilization a few times per year for a week or two.

"who cares?"  lets see, from zillow for a 300k loan, 30% down, 30 year fixed, with no extra payments.
4.093 with a score of 760 or higher: total interest paid - 154,991.05$
4.119 with a score just under 700: total interest paid - 156,131.71$
5.691 with a score 600-619: 228,351.64%

So yes it seems going from 'great' to 'good' credit does not change much (~1.1k over 30 years), but lower scores will hurt.

This is my point exactly.  Just by not being stupid you end up with a good credit score, and a good score will land you with a good rate on a mortgage if you have a good down payment.  Seems like a lot of work to save ~$3 per month in the scenario above.  I guess if your life is that optimized and you want to put the effort in to that, good on you.  I've got bigger fish to fry in my life.

Who gives a crap about optimizing your credit score?  We are Mustachians!  Our credit scores will be good enough for what we need it for without even thinking about it.  We pay our bills on time, don't have maxed out cards or massive amounts of other hair on fire debt.  That alone will get you a decent credit score.  We also don't borrow money for clown cars so the only time it really matters what your credit is like is when you buy a house.  The important thing about your credit when you buy a house is to not have bad credit.  If you have a decent downstroke and credit that isn't "bad" you will get a good interest rate.

personally i care because while my goal is to pay down my student loans asap, i also hope to refinance them at a lower rate.

everyone isnt at the same place in life.

that is one of the things i rather dislike about these forums, is the assumption that everyone is at the same place financially.
being on this forum doesnt mean everything is followed religious.

 im doing the best i can with what i have.

Sir, I'd like to inform you that your hair is indeed, on fire.  Please proceed to the nearest money source and extinguish your flaming scalp quickly.  Once the smell of burning human hair dissipates you will find that your credit score will already be in good shape. 

Be careful on the refinance.  A "refinance" of student loans is usually just a consolidation and doesn't help, but in fact hurts you.  They get consolidated with a weighted average interest rate and you end up paying the same interest.  You would be better off rapidly paying off the one with the highest interest rate while making minimum payment on the rest.  This will usually save you more interest.

a) guess what? some people were stupid in their former lives, so they arent going from good to great.
 
b)i am very aware my hair is on fire. treating my debt like an emergency is still going to take years. and if in those years i can refinance at a lower interest rate. that is still saving me money and deaccelerating exponentially  the amount of time till debt free

C) that is not true.

a refinance through the government with the federal loans is an average weighted loan.

a refinance of my private loans based upon my credit score alone could range from 3- 7% interest.

this response merely highlights my complaint that everyone comes from different backgrounds, and people dont seem to respect that

[hernandz]

I empty the dishwasher because he hates doing that. He feeds the dogs because I hate the smell of their wet food. I troubleshoot the computers because he doesn't have the patience, though he does have the skills. He scrapes the driveway when it needs it because I can't reach the pedals on our backhoe. He usually takes out the trash because his vehicle is far more suited to hauling trash than mine.

The point is, in the long run, we split things evenly and according to our skills and preferences. As long as it works out for us, who cares what the stereotypes are?

Before I joined this forum, I would never have known (or considered)  someone so bad-ass as to have their own backhoe.  Let that be a lesson that we should both test drive the backhoe before purchase.

--still mostly a city girl, but starting to lean a little bit country--

[AlanStache]

@ Timmmy 

This is my point exactly.  Just by not being stupid you end up with a good credit score, and a good score will land you with a good rate on a mortgage if you have a good down payment.  Seems like a lot of work to save ~$3 per month in the scenario above.  I guess if your life is that optimized and you want to put the effort in to that, good on you.  I've got bigger fish to fry in my life.

Sorry, tested then confirmed your point, did not intend it to come off as disagreeing.  Have read else where there is a diminishing returns curve on credit score - this all seems to support that.

100% agree; there is very much a point to going from less than good to good.

[dycker1978]

My credit score has been over 800 for years and with work travel I run LOTS of transactions on my personal cards.  Typically I pay off the balance every week or two - could not tell you when the closing statement date is.  I will also blip over 50% utilization a few times per year for a week or two.

"who cares?"  lets see, from zillow for a 300k loan, 30% down, 30 year fixed, with no extra payments.
4.093 with a score of 760 or higher: total interest paid - 154,991.05$
4.119 with a score just under 700: total interest paid - 156,131.71$
5.691 with a score 600-619: 228,351.64%

So yes it seems going from 'great' to 'good' credit does not change much (~1.1k over 30 years), but lower scores will hurt.

This is my point exactly.  Just by not being stupid you end up with a good credit score, and a good score will land you with a good rate on a mortgage if you have a good down payment.  Seems like a lot of work to save ~$3 per month in the scenario above.  I guess if your life is that optimized and you want to put the effort in to that, good on you.  I've got bigger fish to fry in my life.

Who gives a crap about optimizing your credit score?  We are Mustachians!  Our credit scores will be good enough for what we need it for without even thinking about it.  We pay our bills on time, don't have maxed out cards or massive amounts of other hair on fire debt.  That alone will get you a decent credit score.  We also don't borrow money for clown cars so the only time it really matters what your credit is like is when you buy a house.  The important thing about your credit when you buy a house is to not have bad credit.  If you have a decent downstroke and credit that isn't "bad" you will get a good interest rate.

personally i care because while my goal is to pay down my student loans asap, i also hope to refinance them at a lower rate.

everyone isnt at the same place in life.

that is one of the things i rather dislike about these forums, is the assumption that everyone is at the same place financially.
being on this forum doesnt mean everything is followed religious.

 im doing the best i can with what i have.

Sir, I'd like to inform you that your hair is indeed, on fire.  Please proceed to the nearest money source and extinguish your flaming scalp quickly.  Once the smell of burning human hair dissipates you will find that your credit score will already be in good shape. 

Be careful on the refinance.  A "refinance" of student loans is usually just a consolidation and doesn't help, but in fact hurts you.  They get consolidated with a weighted average interest rate and you end up paying the same interest.  You would be better off rapidly paying off the one with the highest interest rate while making minimum payment on the rest.  This will usually save you more interest.

a) guess what? some people were stupid in their former lives, so they arent going from good to great.
 
b)i am very aware my hair is on fire. treating my debt like an emergency is still going to take years. and if in those years i can refinance at a lower interest rate. that is still saving me money and deaccelerating exponentially  the amount of time till debt free

C) that is not true.

a refinance through the government with the federal loans is an average weighted loan.

a refinance of my private loans based upon my credit score alone could range from 3- 7% interest.

this response merely highlights my complaint that everyone comes from different backgrounds, and people dont seem to respect that

+1 to this

This is a great fourm, and MMM is a great site.  It has made me think alot about my poor choices and where I can cut back in order to get my hair to stop burning.

People on this site, however, need to realize that their position is not the same as everyone elses.  I have debt, and a lot of it.  I have paid off $20000 in the 4 months since I found this site, some because of better managment, some because of a windfall in cash. 

I watch my credit score closly, because I have goon from bad to ok... on my way to good.  This allows me to refinace my debt at better rates and pay more efficantly on my debt, so yes this is important. 

Sometimes people need to stop and think that not everyone on this site is in a good place.  Some of us came here to get out of debt and be smarter with our money and find it somewhat dicouraging when I have a credit score of 616 and someone quotes that "just not being stuipid you end up with a good credit score..."  I think MMM set up this comunity to help people not discourage...

Rant over

[RetiredAt63]

You are thinking real working apron - think "hostess apron" and pearls.

It's all in the apron and pearls - June cleaver would be so proud!

The sad truth is that any activity that calls for pearls decidedly does not call for an apron, and vice versa. :-)

[Threshkin]

+1 to this

This is a great fourm, and MMM is a great site.  It has made me think alot about my poor choices and where I can cut back in order to get my hair to stop burning.

People on this site, however, need to realize that their position is not the same as everyone elses.  I have debt, and a lot of it.  I have paid off $20000 in the 4 months since I found this site, some because of better managment, some because of a windfall in cash. 

I watch my credit score closly, because I have goon from bad to ok... on my way to good.  This allows me to refinace my debt at better rates and pay more efficantly on my debt, so yes this is important. 

Sometimes people need to stop and think that not everyone on this site is in a good place.  Some of us came here to get out of debt and be smarter with our money and find it somewhat dicouraging when I have a credit score of 616 and someone quotes that "just not being stuipid you end up with a good credit score..."  I think MMM set up this comunity to help people not discourage...

Rant over

+1
The point of this site is to educate and help people achieve FI.  At times this is done by face slaps regarding ongoing or planned spending choices.  But many people come to this site carrying a lot of financial baggage from previous bad decisions. 

Beating someone up over events in the past only makes the poster feel superior.  Advising someone in a hole on how to stop digging and to get out of the hole adds value to our group as a whole.

[Timmmy]

My credit score has been over 800 for years and with work travel I run LOTS of transactions on my personal cards.  Typically I pay off the balance every week or two - could not tell you when the closing statement date is.  I will also blip over 50% utilization a few times per year for a week or two.

"who cares?"  lets see, from zillow for a 300k loan, 30% down, 30 year fixed, with no extra payments.
4.093 with a score of 760 or higher: total interest paid - 154,991.05$
4.119 with a score just under 700: total interest paid - 156,131.71$
5.691 with a score 600-619: 228,351.64%

So yes it seems going from 'great' to 'good' credit does not change much (~1.1k over 30 years), but lower scores will hurt.

This is my point exactly.  Just by not being stupid you end up with a good credit score, and a good score will land you with a good rate on a mortgage if you have a good down payment.  Seems like a lot of work to save ~$3 per month in the scenario above.  I guess if your life is that optimized and you want to put the effort in to that, good on you.  I've got bigger fish to fry in my life.

Who gives a crap about optimizing your credit score?  We are Mustachians!  Our credit scores will be good enough for what we need it for without even thinking about it.  We pay our bills on time, don't have maxed out cards or massive amounts of other hair on fire debt.  That alone will get you a decent credit score.  We also don't borrow money for clown cars so the only time it really matters what your credit is like is when you buy a house.  The important thing about your credit when you buy a house is to not have bad credit.  If you have a decent downstroke and credit that isn't "bad" you will get a good interest rate.

personally i care because while my goal is to pay down my student loans asap, i also hope to refinance them at a lower rate.

everyone isnt at the same place in life.

that is one of the things i rather dislike about these forums, is the assumption that everyone is at the same place financially.
being on this forum doesnt mean everything is followed religious.

 im doing the best i can with what i have.

Sir, I'd like to inform you that your hair is indeed, on fire.  Please proceed to the nearest money source and extinguish your flaming scalp quickly.  Once the smell of burning human hair dissipates you will find that your credit score will already be in good shape. 

Be careful on the refinance.  A "refinance" of student loans is usually just a consolidation and doesn't help, but in fact hurts you.  They get consolidated with a weighted average interest rate and you end up paying the same interest.  You would be better off rapidly paying off the one with the highest interest rate while making minimum payment on the rest.  This will usually save you more interest.

a) guess what? some people were stupid in their former lives, so they arent going from good to great.
 
b)i am very aware my hair is on fire. treating my debt like an emergency is still going to take years. and if in those years i can refinance at a lower interest rate. that is still saving me money and deaccelerating exponentially  the amount of time till debt free

C) that is not true.

a refinance through the government with the federal loans is an average weighted loan.

a refinance of my private loans based upon my credit score alone could range from 3- 7% interest.

this response merely highlights my complaint that everyone comes from different backgrounds, and people dont seem to respect that

+1 to this

This is a great fourm, and MMM is a great site.  It has made me think alot about my poor choices and where I can cut back in order to get my hair to stop burning.

People on this site, however, need to realize that their position is not the same as everyone elses.  I have debt, and a lot of it.  I have paid off $20000 in the 4 months since I found this site, some because of better managment, some because of a windfall in cash. 

I watch my credit score closly, because I have goon from bad to ok... on my way to good.  This allows me to refinace my debt at better rates and pay more efficantly on my debt, so yes this is important. 

Sometimes people need to stop and think that not everyone on this site is in a good place.  Some of us came here to get out of debt and be smarter with our money and find it somewhat dicouraging when I have a credit score of 616 and someone quotes that "just not being stuipid you end up with a good credit score..."  I think MMM set up this comunity to help people not discourage...

Rant over

You said yourself you made poor choices.  Those poor choices dragged down your finances and your credit score.

I was stupid and had a metric crap ton of debt.  I also had a crappy credit score.  I started making smart choices, paid off my debt and my credit score went up.  I didn't make a single decision based on what it would do to my credit score.  I made every decision based on the fastest way out of debt.  Credit score going up was just a byproduct. 

Also, you can't refi your way out of debt. 

@AlanStache

[vivophoenix]

You said yourself you made poor choices.  Those poor choices dragged down your finances and your credit score.

I was stupid and had a metric crap ton of debt.  I also had a crappy credit score.  I started making smart choices, paid off my debt and my credit score went up.  I didn't make a single decision based on what it would do to my credit score.  I made every decision based on the fastest way out of debt.  Credit score going up was just a byproduct. 

Also, you can't refi your way out of debt. 

@AlanStache

kudos to you

but that was your way of handling your debt.

my way is different


no you can not finance yourself out of debt, but you can use it as a tool to decrease the amount of money  used to pay back this debt.


how is this any different than refinancing a mortgage?

people get told to do this all the time, but its ignored for other types of debt?

[dycker1978]

My credit score has been over 800 for years and with work travel I run LOTS of transactions on my personal cards.  Typically I pay off the balance every week or two - could not tell you when the closing statement date is.  I will also blip over 50% utilization a few times per year for a week or two.

"who cares?"  lets see, from zillow for a 300k loan, 30% down, 30 year fixed, with no extra payments.
4.093 with a score of 760 or higher: total interest paid - 154,991.05$
4.119 with a score just under 700: total interest paid - 156,131.71$
5.691 with a score 600-619: 228,351.64%

So yes it seems going from 'great' to 'good' credit does not change much (~1.1k over 30 years), but lower scores will hurt.

This is my point exactly.  Just by not being stupid you end up with a good credit score, and a good score will land you with a good rate on a mortgage if you have a good down payment.  Seems like a lot of work to save ~$3 per month in the scenario above.  I guess if your life is that optimized and you want to put the effort in to that, good on you.  I've got bigger fish to fry in my life.

Who gives a crap about optimizing your credit score?  We are Mustachians!  Our credit scores will be good enough for what we need it for without even thinking about it.  We pay our bills on time, don't have maxed out cards or massive amounts of other hair on fire debt.  That alone will get you a decent credit score.  We also don't borrow money for clown cars so the only time it really matters what your credit is like is when you buy a house.  The important thing about your credit when you buy a house is to not have bad credit.  If you have a decent downstroke and credit that isn't "bad" you will get a good interest rate.

personally i care because while my goal is to pay down my student loans asap, i also hope to refinance them at a lower rate.

everyone isnt at the same place in life.

that is one of the things i rather dislike about these forums, is the assumption that everyone is at the same place financially.
being on this forum doesnt mean everything is followed religious.

 im doing the best i can with what i have.

Sir, I'd like to inform you that your hair is indeed, on fire.  Please proceed to the nearest money source and extinguish your flaming scalp quickly.  Once the smell of burning human hair dissipates you will find that your credit score will already be in good shape. 

Be careful on the refinance.  A "refinance" of student loans is usually just a consolidation and doesn't help, but in fact hurts you.  They get consolidated with a weighted average interest rate and you end up paying the same interest.  You would be better off rapidly paying off the one with the highest interest rate while making minimum payment on the rest.  This will usually save you more interest.

a) guess what? some people were stupid in their former lives, so they arent going from good to great.
 
b)i am very aware my hair is on fire. treating my debt like an emergency is still going to take years. and if in those years i can refinance at a lower interest rate. that is still saving me money and deaccelerating exponentially  the amount of time till debt free

C) that is not true.

a refinance through the government with the federal loans is an average weighted loan.

a refinance of my private loans based upon my credit score alone could range from 3- 7% interest.

this response merely highlights my complaint that everyone comes from different backgrounds, and people dont seem to respect that

+1 to this

This is a great fourm, and MMM is a great site.  It has made me think alot about my poor choices and where I can cut back in order to get my hair to stop burning.

People on this site, however, need to realize that their position is not the same as everyone elses.  I have debt, and a lot of it.  I have paid off $20000 in the 4 months since I found this site, some because of better managment, some because of a windfall in cash. 

I watch my credit score closly, because I have goon from bad to ok... on my way to good.  This allows me to refinace my debt at better rates and pay more efficantly on my debt, so yes this is important. 

Sometimes people need to stop and think that not everyone on this site is in a good place.  Some of us came here to get out of debt and be smarter with our money and find it somewhat dicouraging when I have a credit score of 616 and someone quotes that "just not being stuipid you end up with a good credit score..."  I think MMM set up this comunity to help people not discourage...

Rant over

You said yourself you made poor choices.  Those poor choices dragged down your finances and your credit score.

I was stupid and had a metric crap ton of debt.  I also had a crappy credit score.  I started making smart choices, paid off my debt and my credit score went up.  I didn't make a single decision based on what it would do to my credit score.  I made every decision based on the fastest way out of debt.  Credit score going up was just a byproduct. 

Also, you can't refi your way out of debt. 

@AlanStache

Agreed with this almost 100%

But when you owe(much like I did 4 months ago) $60,000 ar 19.9% refi helps to atleast make progress on the debt.

I now owe $80,000 and all of it is below 10%.  Not great but much better.  Al least now I can make some progress and get this shit gone.

So yes still in debt after refi - but in a much better place to pay it off.

[dycker1978]

You said yourself you made poor choices.  Those poor choices dragged down your finances and your credit score.

I was stupid and had a metric crap ton of debt.  I also had a crappy credit score.  I started making smart choices, paid off my debt and my credit score went up.  I didn't make a single decision based on what it would do to my credit score.  I made every decision based on the fastest way out of debt.  Credit score going up was just a byproduct. 

Also, you can't refi your way out of debt. 

@AlanStache

kudos to you

but that was your way of handling your debt.

my way is different


no you can not finance yourself out of debt, but you can use it as a tool to decrease the amount of money  used to pay back this debt.


how is this any different than refinancing a mortgage?

people get told to do this all the time, but its ignored for other types of debt?

+1

[frugalnacho]

+1 to this

This is a great fourm, and MMM is a great site.  It has made me think alot about my poor choices and where I can cut back in order to get my hair to stop burning.

People on this site, however, need to realize that their position is not the same as everyone elses.  I have debt, and a lot of it.  I have paid off $20000 in the 4 months since I found this site, some because of better managment, some because of a windfall in cash. 

I watch my credit score closly, because I have goon from bad to ok... on my way to good.  This allows me to refinace my debt at better rates and pay more efficantly on my debt, so yes this is important. 

Sometimes people need to stop and think that not everyone on this site is in a good place.  Some of us came here to get out of debt and be smarter with our money and find it somewhat dicouraging when I have a credit score of 616 and someone quotes that "just not being stuipid you end up with a good credit score..."  I think MMM set up this comunity to help people not discourage...

Rant over

+1
The point of this site is to educate and help people achieve FI.  At times this is done by face slaps regarding ongoing or planned spending choices.  But many people come to this site carrying a lot of financial baggage from previous bad decisions. 

Beating someone up over events in the past only makes the poster feel superior.  Advising someone in a hole on how to stop digging and to get out of the hole adds value to our group as a whole.

Yes and I think the point of the discussion was to use credit cards to buy what you need, then pay it off in full every month (and NEVER carry a balance) and you will end up coming out far ahead of actively trying to game your credit score to get lower interest rates on loans. 

[vivophoenix]

+1 to this

This is a great fourm, and MMM is a great site.  It has made me think alot about my poor choices and where I can cut back in order to get my hair to stop burning.

People on this site, however, need to realize that their position is not the same as everyone elses.  I have debt, and a lot of it.  I have paid off $20000 in the 4 months since I found this site, some because of better managment, some because of a windfall in cash. 

I watch my credit score closly, because I have goon from bad to ok... on my way to good.  This allows me to refinace my debt at better rates and pay more efficantly on my debt, so yes this is important. 

Sometimes people need to stop and think that not everyone on this site is in a good place.  Some of us came here to get out of debt and be smarter with our money and find it somewhat dicouraging when I have a credit score of 616 and someone quotes that "just not being stuipid you end up with a good credit score..."  I think MMM set up this comunity to help people not discourage...

Rant over

+1
The point of this site is to educate and help people achieve FI.  At times this is done by face slaps regarding ongoing or planned spending choices.  But many people come to this site carrying a lot of financial baggage from previous bad decisions. 

Beating someone up over events in the past only makes the poster feel superior.  Advising someone in a hole on how to stop digging and to get out of the hole adds value to our group as a whole.

Yes and I think the point of the discussion was to use credit cards to buy what you need, then pay it off in full every month (and NEVER carry a balance) and you will end up coming out far ahead of actively trying to game your credit score to get lower interest rates on loans. 

and the point i was making was that i do pay my balance every month.

pay no interest

gain 2% cash back

and I still use my cc to game the credit score system, so that i cab get a good interest rate.

so that is why talking about credit scores is valuable to some people.

it may not be valuable to you, but for me it is.

[AH013]

Of course the bank isn't making money off of me. But by increasing my limit, they're hoping I'll say "oooh look at all the pretty things I can buy now!" and mess myself up. Nice try, banks. I'm onto you!

This is not completely true.  I used to run a business and alot of the profits for credit card companies is the 3.5% to 7.5% charge, depending on the card, to the business,  at the time of purchase.  Credit card companies allways make sure they get their share, even in the odd case(like us) where the balance is paid off every month.

This is actually very accurate.  I remember a news report where they interviewed some high level executive of one of the major credit card carriers, and the subject came to those people who pay off their balance in full every month.  The news reporter had it in her mind that these must be the worst customers for the credit card companies since they don't pay any finance charges, and the exec dropped some knowledge on her.  He gave her a look of WTF?!? and informed her that these were actually the BEST customers of credit card companies, and ones that they heavily targeted in marketing.  The reason being, they were collecting the same merchant fees off of their usage (more so, since more of their disposable income could be used for new spending rather than paying interest), and they rarely if ever had to worry about default, which was a huge impairment to profitability.

He ran the math for her and proposed 2 people*:
'Pay in Full Guy' with a $5k credit limit spending $1k a month, paying it in full, paying no interest, but generating $360 a year in merchant fees ($12,000*3%) and a 1% chance of defaulting on $1k ($10 expected loss)
'Max My Balance Guy' with a $5k credit limit, a $4k balance, $1k spending a month, generating the same $360 a year in merchant fees but also paying $720 a year in interest ($4k*18%), but a 5% chance of defaulting on $5k ($250 expected loss).

'Pay in Full Guy' generates more income per $1 at risk than does 'Max My Balance Guy', which means for every $1,000 of capital a bank is willing to risk, they can have 100 'Pay in Full' Guys generating $36,000 a year, or 4 'Max My Balance' Guys generating $4,320.  From there it was pretty obvious why 'Pay in Full' was awesome and you want the most of them you can get.

*I forget the actual numbers, but you get my point

[FIPurpose]

+1 to this

This is a great fourm, and MMM is a great site.  It has made me think alot about my poor choices and where I can cut back in order to get my hair to stop burning.

People on this site, however, need to realize that their position is not the same as everyone elses.  I have debt, and a lot of it.  I have paid off $20000 in the 4 months since I found this site, some because of better managment, some because of a windfall in cash. 

I watch my credit score closly, because I have goon from bad to ok... on my way to good.  This allows me to refinace my debt at better rates and pay more efficantly on my debt, so yes this is important. 

Sometimes people need to stop and think that not everyone on this site is in a good place.  Some of us came here to get out of debt and be smarter with our money and find it somewhat dicouraging when I have a credit score of 616 and someone quotes that "just not being stuipid you end up with a good credit score..."  I think MMM set up this comunity to help people not discourage...

Rant over

+1
The point of this site is to educate and help people achieve FI.  At times this is done by face slaps regarding ongoing or planned spending choices.  But many people come to this site carrying a lot of financial baggage from previous bad decisions. 

Beating someone up over events in the past only makes the poster feel superior.  Advising someone in a hole on how to stop digging and to get out of the hole adds value to our group as a whole.

Yes and I think the point of the discussion was to use credit cards to buy what you need, then pay it off in full every month (and NEVER carry a balance) and you will end up coming out far ahead of actively trying to game your credit score to get lower interest rates on loans. 

and the point i was making was that i do pay my balance every month.

pay no interest

gain 2% cash back

and I still use my cc to game the credit score system, so that i cab get a good interest rate.

so that is why talking about credit scores is valuable to some people.

it may not be valuable to you, but for me it is.

Why would this be valuable to you if you never pay interest? For an emergency?

[frugalnacho]

and the point i was making was that i do pay my balance every month.

pay no interest

gain 2% cash back

and I still use my cc to game the credit score system, so that i cab get a good interest rate.

so that is why talking about credit scores is valuable to some people.

it may not be valuable to you, but for me it is.

How do you buy what you need (and no more) and maximize the efficiency of getting CC rewards, but also game the credit score system without manufactured spending?

[vivophoenix]

Why would this be valuable to you if you never pay interest? For an emergency?

I'm sorry i may have not been clear.

information about raising credit scores, as well as, actively trying to improve my credit score is valuable to me.

some people believe this knowledge isnt worth worrying/talking about

[frugalnacho]

Why would this be valuable to you if you never pay interest? For an emergency?

He pays interest on student loans.

[vivophoenix]

and the point i was making was that i do pay my balance every month.

pay no interest

gain 2% cash back

and I still use my cc to game the credit score system, so that i cab get a good interest rate.

so that is why talking about credit scores is valuable to some people.

it may not be valuable to you, but for me it is.

How do you buy what you need (and no more) and maximize the efficiency of getting CC rewards, but also game the credit score system without manufactured spending?

well first off, i use a rewards card with no annual fee.

I put the following on my card, which are auto billed and constant each month:

 cell phone
 internet
 charitable giving
 public transit pass

 im not usually even carrying the card around with me. (limits spending more than needed)


this use of cc accomplishes the following:
A)its real spending

B) these are real budgeted utilities that i have the cash for already, so i do not over spend, I usually pay my cc off the same day i make a charge. if i ever notice the amount approaching over 30% for example i took a vacation, i will pay it before the high balance is reported.

C) what happens to be 'owed' on my credit card the day the company reports to the bureaus is then shown on my credit report
 
D)which shows that i am an active borrower, and also because these utilities cost very little in comparison to my credit line, i have a low rate of utilization.

D) as i continue to build a positive credit history that is active and also low utilization, this credit card will also be aging on my credit report. as it ages it will raise my score because it will be a credit card that is old with a perfect history of payment.

[Lis]

Of course the bank isn't making money off of me. But by increasing my limit, they're hoping I'll say "oooh look at all the pretty things I can buy now!" and mess myself up. Nice try, banks. I'm onto you!

This is not completely true.  I used to run a business and alot of the profits for credit card companies is the 3.5% to 7.5% charge, depending on the card, to the business,  at the time of purchase.  Credit card companies allways make sure they get their share, even in the odd case(like us) where the balance is paid off every month.

This is actually very accurate.  I remember a news report where they interviewed some high level executive of one of the major credit card carriers, and the subject came to those people who pay off their balance in full every month.  The news reporter had it in her mind that these must be the worst customers for the credit card companies since they don't pay any finance charges, and the exec dropped some knowledge on her.  He gave her a look of WTF?!? and informed her that these were actually the BEST customers of credit card companies, and ones that they heavily targeted in marketing.  The reason being, they were collecting the same merchant fees off of their usage (more so, since more of their disposable income could be used for new spending rather than paying interest), and they rarely if ever had to worry about default, which was a huge impairment to profitability.

He ran the math for her and proposed 2 people*:
'Pay in Full Guy' with a $5k credit limit spending $1k a month, paying it in full, paying no interest, but generating $360 a year in merchant fees ($12,000*3%) and a 1% chance of defaulting on $1k ($10 expected loss)
'Max My Balance Guy' with a $5k credit limit, a $4k balance, $1k spending a month, generating the same $360 a year in merchant fees but also paying $720 a year in interest ($4k*18%), but a 5% chance of defaulting on $5k ($250 expected loss).

'Pay in Full Guy' generates more income per $1 at risk than does 'Max My Balance Guy', which means for every $1,000 of capital a bank is willing to risk, they can have 100 'Pay in Full' Guys generating $36,000 a year, or 4 'Max My Balance' Guys generating $4,320.  From there it was pretty obvious why 'Pay in Full' was awesome and you want the most of them you can get.

*I forget the actual numbers, but you get my point

Aah... you learn something new every day! Next time my dad harps on me for paying my card in full each month, I'll show him this. Thanks!

[solon]

People! People!

Did you overhear all this at work?

[Gray Matter]

People! People!

Did you overhear all this at work?

Well, in a way, since I was reading it at work.  Does that count?

[Rural]

I individually portion out dinner leftovers every night and put them into the tupperware rotation, but he takes them out of the fridge for lunch. Does that count as me packing his lunch?

It's not that I have anything against the concept of a wife packing her husband lunch. If you're handling the food anyway might as well. It's the idea that a man says he is incapable of doing so and needs a wife to do it. That's the ridiculous part. On various levels.

I've seen my boyfriend try to get food from a pot onto a plate. It's not pretty. I'm not sure he would be capable of dishing out leftovers into tupperwares, let alone cooking the food to begin with. I don't mind though, he does enough chores I hate to make up for it.

I'm actually working on making my peace with our fairly traditional division of labor.


He built the house, and mostly, I clean it. He hunts, I gather (literally). He's the one who carries anything over 50 pounds. I pack his lunch, because otherwise he would forget, and he's too cheap to buy even the school lunches, so he'd come home with a headache.


I empty the dishwasher because he hates doing that. He feeds the dogs because I hate the smell of their wet food. I troubleshoot the computers because he doesn't have the patience, though he does have the skills. He scrapes the driveway when it needs it because I can't reach the pedals on our backhoe. He usually takes out the trash because his vehicle is far more suited to hauling trash than mine.

The point is, in the long run, we split things evenly and according to our skills and preferences. As long as it works out for us, who cares what the stereotypes are?

I like to imagine you're both dudes. That way you're knocking down even more stereotypes!

Heh. Okay, then, if it makes you happy, go for it. I'm the short dude with the old lady haircut.

[Nords]

People! People!

Did you overhear all this at work?

Oh, great.  More on-topic police.  You guys should create your own forum for exclusive on-topic posting.

[dragoncar]

People! People!

Did you overhear all this at work?

Oh, great.  More on-topic police.  You guys should create your own forum for exclusive on-topic posting.

A guy at work keeps interjecting off-topic nonsense, so I'm technically on-topic here. 


_{The guy is me}

[jordanread]

People! People!

Did you overhear all this at work?

Oh, great.  More on-topic police.  You guys should create your own forum for exclusive on-topic posting.

A guy at work keeps interjecting off-topic nonsense, so I'm technically on-topic here. 


_{The guy is me}

Ha! And honestly, could you imagine how boring consistently on topic comments would be?

Now, I didn't hear this at work, but I've always found it funny running into mustachians elsewhere on the internet. I remember reading a comment where somebody said something like "and I bet he had a leaf blower too! Ha!". The resulting vitriol was amazing. I just nodded to myself and kept reading.

[gooki]

But when you owe(much like I did 4 months ago) $60,000 ar 19.9% refi helps to atleast make progress on the debt.

I now owe $80,000 and all of it is below 10%.  Not great but much better.  Al least now I can make some progress and get this shit gone.

So yes still in debt after refi - but in a much better place to pay it off.

Sounds like you got front loaded with $20,000 additional debt to save 9.9% interest.

[AlanStache]

I think going OT is all about content, interesting discussions of debt, cc's, mortgage rates and credit scores is nice.  Three page mud slinging fests about multi-level marketing... less so.  But interesting content is in the eye of the beholder.

Really what we need to be focusing on in this thread is airplane fuel costs per passenger mile!!!

[crispy]

Have one to add!  Coworker has been telling me about the elaborate birthday party she is planning for her daughter including a tiered fondant cake and a visit from a Disney princess.  Both of these items costs a few hundred dollars not to mention all the other stuff she's planned.  The kicker is that she has been in pain for a few months because she broke her back molar and knocked out the filling.  She told me yesterday, 'I really need to get my tooth fixed, but I don't have the $200 needed to pull it out much less get a crown."  There just are no words.

[dycker1978]

People! People!

Did you overhear all this at work?

Oh, great.  More on-topic police.  You guys should create your own forum for exclusive on-topic posting.

that made me seriously LOL

[dycker1978]

But when you owe(much like I did 4 months ago) $60,000 ar 19.9% refi helps to atleast make progress on the debt.

I now owe $80,000 and all of it is below 10%.  Not great but much better.  Al least now I can make some progress and get this shit gone.

So yes still in debt after refi - but in a much better place to pay it off.

Sounds like you got front loaded with $20,000 additional debt to save 9.9% interest.

LOL Typo... first number should be 80000 second should be 60000... now have 20000 less.

[Cheddar Stacker]

But when you owe(much like I did 4 months ago) $60,000 ar 19.9% refi helps to atleast make progress on the debt.

I now owe $80,000 and all of it is below 10%.  Not great but much better.  Al least now I can make some progress and get this shit gone.

So yes still in debt after refi - but in a much better place to pay it off.

Sounds like you got front loaded with $20,000 additional debt to save 9.9% interest.

LOL Typo... first number should be 80000 second should be 60000... now have 20000 less.

Good because I almost had a heart attack after reading the typo. Congrats on the progress. Big turnaround, but keep it going.

[JetBlast]

Today a young coworker was complaining about retirement to an older coworker. The conversation went something like this
Young cw "I'll never be able to retire thanks to Obama and the nazis blah blah blah"
Old cw "if I was your age I would just try and save one dollar everyday and put that in a savings account you would be set by the time you retire"

At least old CW didn't go along with young CWs obummer/gummint keeping me down complainypants horseshit. The math of old CW might suck but his suggestion save and take control of retirement planning is a good start.

[Lis]

I'm always surprised at how many coworkers come in with a cup from Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts. Our company has at least 3 Keurig machines and about 30 different types of coffee and tea to go with it. Not to mention all different kinds of milk, sugar, sugar substitutes...

The best is when a few associates start going out in the afternoon to get a cup because they need a break. Why do we have a break room with a coffee maker then?

[vivophoenix]

I'm always surprised at how many coworkers come in with a cup from Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts. Our company has at least 3 Keurig machines and about 30 different types of coffee and tea to go with it. Not to mention all different kinds of milk, sugar, sugar substitutes...

The best is when a few associates start going out in the afternoon to get a cup because they need a break. Why do we have a break room with a coffee maker then?

a) its a break from the office
B) you get to go outside
C) starbucks doesnt make that caramel frappe

[trailrated]

A good friend of mine just leased a brand new Camero at $450/month and asked me to spot the $50 he needed to join our fantasy football league and that he would pay me back on payday... wtf

[GuitarStv]

It's all in the apron and pearls - June cleaver would be so proud!

The sad truth is that any activity that calls for pearls decidedly does not call for an apron, and vice versa. :-)

 . . . are you suggesting that activities exist which call for pearls?

[gimp]

. . . are you suggesting that activities exist which call for pearls?

Necklaces, sure, definitely.

[Dr. A]

I'm always surprised at how many coworkers come in with a cup from Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts. Our company has at least 3 Keurig machines and about 30 different types of coffee and tea to go with it. Not to mention all different kinds of milk, sugar, sugar substitutes...

The best is when a few associates start going out in the afternoon to get a cup because they need a break. Why do we have a break room with a coffee maker then?

a) its a break from the office
B) you get to go outside
C) starbucks doesnt make that caramel frappe

+1 (I assume you meant Keurig doesn't make caramel frappe)

After I gave up the occasional Starbucks, but was still in my big corporate gig, I still tagged along with my buddy when he went on a frappuchino run for the opportunity to stretch my legs and unplug for a few minutes.

[Davids]

I'm always surprised at how many coworkers come in with a cup from Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts. Our company has at least 3 Keurig machines and about 30 different types of coffee and tea to go with it. Not to mention all different kinds of milk, sugar, sugar substitutes...

The best is when a few associates start going out in the afternoon to get a cup because they need a break. Why do we have a break room with a coffee maker then?

Same thing at my company we have keurigs and other automatic coffee machines as well with many different flavors for coffee, tea and hot chocolate yet people still come in with their dunkin donuts, starbucks or wawa coffee cups.

[solon]

...people still come in with their dunkin donuts, starbucks or wawa coffee cups.

wawa? is this a brand I'm not familiar with, or is this an infantile complainypants person? :)

[Ashyukun]

...people still come in with their dunkin donuts, starbucks or wawa coffee cups.

wawa? is this a brand I'm not familiar with, or is this an infantile complainypants person? :)

It's a gas station/minimart chain in PA, saw a lot of them when I was working on-site at a plant there a lot a few years back.

[Rural]

It's all in the apron and pearls - June cleaver would be so proud!

The sad truth is that any activity that calls for pearls decidedly does not call for an apron, and vice versa. :-)

 . . . are you suggesting that activities exist which call for pearls?

Indeed. We may not be thinking of the same sorts of activities, though. :-)


 I wear pearls, completely without irony, once or twice a week.

[Lizzy B.]

I'm a long time lurker, but I finally overheard something today that made me want to take the plunge:

I over heard some coworkers discussing one coworker's adult son who is trying to buy a new car since his current car, a quite mustachian sedan from the sounds of things, was finally reaching the end of it's life.  This son lives on his own and doesn't rely on his parents for financial support.  The Coworker said that her son was looking at something used, maybe a '95 or '00 model, since he could by it with cash. She thought that this wasn't a good idea since "it's so hard to find a reliable used car and you don't know how a car has been treated."  She recommended that he purchase a new SUV since "if you're buying a car, why not get a nice one". 

Okay, that's not great advice (particularly the SUV part since he's doing fine with his sedan right now) but at least I can understand having trouble evaluating the quality and reliability of used cars.  Her next comments blew me away though:

She said her son currently put approx 50% of his paycheck into his 401k since he's trying to save a lot now since he might not be able to save as much when he has kids or gets married.  She was really upset by this, though, and thought that "at this time in life, he should be focusing on buying things and paying bills, not saving."

I could understand if he was living in her house still or SHE was paying his bills, but the guy has it together and has the money to save BECAUSE he keeps his bills low.  Maybe he's already member here, but hasn't shared the secret with his mom yet...

[Cheddar Stacker]

I'm a long time lurker, but I finally overheard something today that made me want to take the plunge:

I over heard some coworkers discussing one coworker's adult son who is trying to buy a new car since his current car, a quite mustachian sedan from the sounds of things, was finally reaching the end of it's life.  This son lives on his own and doesn't rely on his parents for financial support.  The Coworker said that her son was looking at something used, maybe a '95 or '00 model, since he could by it with cash. She thought that this wasn't a good idea since "it's so hard to find a reliable used car and you don't know how a car has been treated."  She recommended that he purchase a new SUV since "if you're buying a car, why not get a nice one". 

Okay, that's not great advice (particularly the SUV part since he's doing fine with his sedan right now) but at least I can understand having trouble evaluating the quality and reliability of used cars.  Her next comments blew me away though:

She said her son currently put approx 50% of his paycheck into his 401k since he's trying to save a lot now since he might not be able to save as much when he has kids or gets married.  She was really upset by this, though, and thought that "at this time in life, he should be focusing on buying things and paying bills, not saving."

I could understand if he was living in her house still or SHE was paying his bills, but the guy has it together and has the money to save BECAUSE he keeps his bills low.  Maybe he's already member here, but hasn't shared the secret with his mom yet...

Guckles, welcome to the forum. Please slap that co-worker tomorrow. Tell her I told you to do it. Thanks.

[Middlesbrough]

Had a good one today. CW is 50 and makes just into the 6 figures not including bonuses in a LCOL area here. He also has several rental properties he runs off to maintain at the end of working days in summer. He was talking today about hoping he can retire by 65! Another CW tried saying he would be fine by 60, but he scoffed and reiterated he was hoping for 65.

The odd part is he makes many good decisions considering he used to drive a very old beat up truck with over 200,000 miles when he isn't biking into work. He is a health nut who refuses to eat out and loves working out. He must really be spending a lot on vacations which are cross country or to the Caribbean and he complains about wife's spending habits. Still doesn't add up.

[dragoncar]

Had a good one today. CW is 50 and makes just into the 6 figures not including bonuses in a LCOL area here. He also has several rental properties he runs off to maintain at the end of working days in summer. He was talking today about hoping he can retire by 65! Another CW tried saying he would be fine by 60, but he scoffed and reiterated he was hoping for 65.

The odd part is he makes many good decisions considering he used to drive a very old beat up truck with over 200,000 miles when he isn't biking into work. He is a health nut who refuses to eat out and loves working out. He must really be spending a lot on vacations which are cross country or to the Caribbean and he complains about wife's spending habits. Still doesn't add up.

He may just be a boglehead and believe you need $5 million to retire regardless of actual expenses

[FuturePrimitive]

He may just be a boglehead and believe you need $5 million to retire regardless of actual expenses

I was just going to say the same thing, it seems like a lot of people really struggle with the concept of actually spending/living off of their retirement savings rather than their salary, even when they have way more than enough. OTOH, maybe he has big plans to travel the world in complete luxury. (But it doesn't sound like it based on your description of his behavior.)

[dandarc]

I'm a long time lurker, but I finally overheard something today that made me want to take the plunge:

I over heard some coworkers discussing one coworker's adult son who is trying to buy a new car since his current car, a quite mustachian sedan from the sounds of things, was finally reaching the end of it's life.  This son lives on his own and doesn't rely on his parents for financial support.  The Coworker said that her son was looking at something used, maybe a '95 or '00 model, since he could by it with cash. She thought that this wasn't a good idea since "it's so hard to find a reliable used car and you don't know how a car has been treated."  She recommended that he purchase a new SUV since "if you're buying a car, why not get a nice one". 

Okay, that's not great advice (particularly the SUV part since he's doing fine with his sedan right now) but at least I can understand having trouble evaluating the quality and reliability of used cars.  Her next comments blew me away though:

She said her son currently put approx 50% of his paycheck into his 401k since he's trying to save a lot now since he might not be able to save as much when he has kids or gets married.  She was really upset by this, though, and thought that "at this time in life, he should be focusing on buying things and paying bills, not saving."

I could understand if he was living in her house still or SHE was paying his bills, but the guy has it together and has the money to save BECAUSE he keeps his bills low.  Maybe he's already member here, but hasn't shared the secret with his mom yet...

My wife's mom had a similar opinion before we were married - "why worry about retirement now, plenty of time to save later".  This has since been downgraded to the more generic "I don't know how you live".  So long as your CW doesn't convince her son to stop living as wisely as he is currently, I suppose no harm done.  Slap some "you should be proud" sense into her if you can.

[DeepEllumStache]

Overheard my cube neighbor on the phone, sounding excited as he talked about buying a larger house, "And then you get to buy things to fill it!"