Overheard at Work

[warfreak2]

I did have a colleague (single guy) who ate out every single meal his entire adult life.  He went to the same local cafeteria-style restaurant for dinner every night.  Other than this, though, he was extremely frugal, and when he died (while still working in his 80's) he left a giant pile of money to charities.

Did he win a bet against a foolish café owner?

"Hey Frank, I bet you I can put both arms behind my back and pinch my nose."
"That's impossible Joe, there's no way you can do that!"
"Can too!"
"No way Joe, if you can do that then you eat here for life, for free, it just ain't gonna happen"
*puts arms behind back*
"Well? How you gonna pinch your nose now?"
*removes arms from behind back, then subsequently pinches nose*
"Goddamnit Joe, not again..."

[Zamboni]

^His name was Jim.  :-)  And he probably had little social conversations with the people working at that cafeteria every night.

[AlanStache]

Good friend of mine swore eating out was cheaper than cooking at home.  She never had more than a few eggs and some cereal at home.  Calmed it was more expensive to buy food for home as it just spoiled.  I would totally call BS but she paid off a large medical bill as a single mother making <50k/year in a few years.  I think the trick to making this work for her was getting large portions and eating the left overs for a second meal.  Maybe not a viable option of physically active men but worked for her.

[warfreak2]

more expensive to buy food for home as it just spoiled

Well, yeah, if you buy a bunch of food and don't eat it, that's gonna cost you.

[rocksinmyhead]

I know two families who don't like "house food" can't cook worth a shit

Really, 95% of the restaurant food is not as good as what I make at home on a daily basis.  Going out to eat is more about getting a break from cooking and a change of scenery, or something I can't make at home, like wood fired pizza.

this, exactly.

[greenmimama]

Good friend of mine swore eating out was cheaper than cooking at home.  She never had more than a few eggs and some cereal at home.  Calmed it was more expensive to buy food for home as it just spoiled.  I would totally call BS but she paid off a large medical bill as a single mother making <50k/year in a few years.  I think the trick to making this work for her was getting large portions and eating the left overs for a second meal.  Maybe not a viable option of physically active men but worked for her.

I am not saying it is cheaper, but when I was single I ate out a lot more, and it never seemed that much more expensive, although I don't eat a lot, a kids happy meal was plenty for me :)

Now with a family of 5, it is by far cheaper to eat at home, but I have come a long way in cooking and baking! A very long way.

[AlanStache]

I am not saying it is cheaper, but when I was single I ate out a lot more, and it never seemed that much more expensive,

Yes, I can very much see how for some people at some times it could be cost competitive to mostly eat out.  Buying in bulk at Costco and cooking at home will always be cheapest (ignoring growing your own) but if you can get two meals worth of food from a take-out place for under ten bucks that is not to far behind.  (nutrition aside).  10$/day * 30day = 300$ in take-out + 50$ in misc from grocery store: 350$/per month is not crazy high, apply this to someone working 12hr/day and it becomes a reasonable option. 

[ok I am now safely hidden under my desk please commence throwing freely obtained rotten tomatoes for my heresy.  :-)  ]

[skunkfunk]

I am not saying it is cheaper, but when I was single I ate out a lot more, and it never seemed that much more expensive,

Yes, I can very much see how for some people at some times it could be cost competitive to mostly eat out.  Buying in bulk at Costco and cooking at home will always be cheapest (ignoring growing your own) but if you can get two meals worth of food from a take-out place for under ten bucks that is not to far behind.  (nutrition aside).  10$/day * 30day = 300$ in take-out + 50$ in misc from grocery store: 350$/per month is not crazy high, apply this to someone working 12hr/day and it becomes a reasonable option. 

[ok I am now safely hidden under my desk please commence throwing freely obtained rotten tomatoes for my heresy.  :-)  ]

[throws rotten tomato]

You'd be better off buying frozen pre-cooked food and heating it up as needed. When I was single I could buy a frozen something-or-other for a dollar.

[sol]

0$/day * 30day = 300$ in take-out + 50$ in misc from grocery store: 350$/per month is not crazy high

Where are you eating out for an average of $3.33 per meal?

I tend to eat four times per day.  When I eat out, even at fast food, the tab is typically at least $9, sometimes $11, for a single meal.  Even if you were not a 6'4" active man and could squeeze two meals out of that and skimp on breakfast, I still can't see how you would average less than $15/day.

By your math that gets you to $450/month for a small person to eat small amounts of crappy food for a month.  I can feed enormous healthy meals to my family of five all months long for that amount of money.  Not only is eating out not cost effective, it's not even close.

[huadpe]

0$/day * 30day = 300$ in take-out + 50$ in misc from grocery store: 350$/per month is not crazy high

Where are you eating out for an average of $3.33 per meal?

I tend to eat four times per day.  When I eat out, even at fast food, the tab is typically at least $9, sometimes $11, for a single meal.  Even if you were not a 6'4" active man and could squeeze two meals out of that and skimp on breakfast, I still can't see how you would average less than $15/day.

By your math that gets you to $450/month for a small person to eat small amounts of crappy food for a month.  I can feed enormous healthy meals to my family of five all months long for that amount of money.  Not only is eating out not cost effective, it's not even close.

Lunches tend to be much better deals than dinners for most eating out.  E.g. the Chinese food place by me has lunch specials in the $5-7 range, and they give you a lot of food.  Fast food also charges you for a drink, which you usually don't need. 

Cooking at home is definitely cheaper, but if you're going to eat out, there are ways to be more efficient about it. 

[AlanStache]

Just checked local Chinese take-out place: 9$ will get you the most expensive thing on the menu (not counting family meals) is a big plate too-includes rice.  Yes, as I said this probably will not work for active man and is based on getting leftovers out of one purchase.  When my gf packs my lunch she includes about half of what I would pack for myself. 

300th post.

[OneDogGP]

How about this one:

Our CFO was discussing operating costs with another exec and when he found out the average salary of our employees he said, "How do they live on that?!  I spend more than that each year just on wine!".

Not that anything will be done for any of these nice people, but it disgusts me every time I think about it.

[geekette]

0$/day * 30day = 300$ in take-out + 50$ in misc from grocery store: 350$/per month is not crazy high

Where are you eating out for an average of $3.33 per meal?

I tend to eat four times per day.  When I eat out, even at fast food, the tab is typically at least $9, sometimes $11, for a single meal.  Even if you were not a 6'4" active man and could squeeze two meals out of that and skimp on breakfast, I still can't see how you would average less than $15/day.

By your math that gets you to $450/month for a small person to eat small amounts of crappy food for a month.  I can feed enormous healthy meals to my family of five all months long for that amount of money.  Not only is eating out not cost effective, it's not even close.

Lunches tend to be much better deals than dinners for most eating out.  E.g. the Chinese food place by me has lunch specials in the $5-7 range, and they give you a lot of food.  Fast food also charges you for a drink, which you usually don't need. 

Cooking at home is definitely cheaper, but if you're going to eat out, there are ways to be more efficient about it.

True - our local take out Chinese place charges $5 for lunch.  My mom occasionally comes over to help me with big yard projects, we can split that, and she takes the leftovers home for dinner.  One of the few ways I actually enjoy veggies.

[CommonCents]

I've seen this too.  A manager of another team was on £40,000+ ($66,000+) and didn't join the pension scheme or the sharesave scheme as they couldn't afford it.  Amazes me that for relatively minor sacrifices now you could be significantly better off in the future, and yet this isn't seen as doable.

I made this mistake myself.  When I first started work, I was a temp employee, so not entitled to the employer match in the superannuation scheme.  I read the paperwork and decided it wasn't worth contributing at that point - I'd be better off paying off my student loan. 

2 years later when I changed to a permanent position with the same employer, I didn't get the full HR induction seminar because I wasn't a new employee, and when asked about the superann scheme, all I remembered was that I had decided it wasn't the best choice.  It completely passed me by that I would now be getting an employer match, that would equate to a 100% return.  It wasn't until after I'd left the job to be a SAHM that it occurred to me that I'd given up a couple of years of employer-matched retirement savings.  doh!

Are you certain that there was not a long vesting period that would have taken that match away from you when you quit?

No, not at all sure.  That might well be the case.  It was over a decade ago and can't remember details.  Now that you ask, I recall that they also front-loaded the fees, so that the first 2 years would have been really quite expensive.

So, it still was probably the right choice, given that the savings went into student loan and mortgage repayment instead. 

Thanks for helping me see that :)

I did this too.  I knew I would be applying for law school in 1-2 years (ended up going in 2.5 years, due to timing of applications/school years).  Due to vesting, I wouldn't get anything but a tiny fraction of the match, so I didn't do it.  Still regret it, but so it goes.  I did contribute the max to my Roth IRA while there at least.

[zinnie]

How about this one:

Our CFO was discussing operating costs with another exec and when he found out the average salary of our employees he said, "How do they live on that?!  I spend more than that each year just on wine!".

Not that anything will be done for any of these nice people, but it disgusts me every time I think about it.

Things to not say out loud when you are an exec.  Eek.

[Insanity]

I am not saying it is cheaper, but when I was single I ate out a lot more, and it never seemed that much more expensive,

Yes, I can very much see how for some people at some times it could be cost competitive to mostly eat out.  Buying in bulk at Costco and cooking at home will always be cheapest (ignoring growing your own) but if you can get two meals worth of food from a take-out place for under ten bucks that is not to far behind.  (nutrition aside).  10$/day * 30day = 300$ in take-out + 50$ in misc from grocery store: 350$/per month is not crazy high, apply this to someone working 12hr/day and it becomes a reasonable option. 

[ok I am now safely hidden under my desk please commence throwing freely obtained rotten tomatoes for my heresy.  :-)  ]

And from a social aspect if you can afford it you are paying someone a wage to provide you a service allowing them to support themselves…..  Similarly to having someone clean your house ;)

[nawhite]

And from a social aspect if you can afford it you are paying someone a wage to provide you a service allowing them to support themselves…..  Similarly to having someone clean your house ;)

I see what you did there ;-)

But seriously, wow, do I hate that thread. Whenever I get drawn into it, my facepunch muscles go into overdrive but they play so much complainypants defense that I feel like I'd just be trolling.

[pdxbator]

A woman at work (part-time mind you) who recently graduated with large school loans is always talking about how much she is in debt. Then she shares that she goes out nearly every night for dinner because she is so bored with cooking her lunches. Then she just shared today that she saw Cirque du Soleil which is in town with her husband. Tickets usually run at least $100/person for them. Meanwhile I'm 41 now and plan to be FI and out of the workplace by 50.

[aclarridge]

A woman at work (part-time mind you) who recently graduated with large school loans is always talking about how much she is in debt. Then she shares that she goes out nearly every night for dinner because she is so bored with cooking her lunches. Then she just shared today that she saw Cirque du Soleil which is in town with her husband. Tickets usually run at least $100/person for them. Meanwhile I'm 41 now and plan to be FI and out of the workplace by 50.

Cirque du Soleil was worth the $100 IMO. Just fyi :)

[LucyBIT]

Him: How do you like the new car?
Her: Well, I feel guilty.
Him: Why?

enter me thinking it's because she spent a lot of money on a shiny new car

Her: It's not a hybrid.

No, it's not a hybrid, it's an Infiniti G37x, which a quick google tells me is MSRP $30,000+.

[BlueHouse]

Due to vesting, I wouldn't get anything but a tiny fraction of the match, so I didn't do it.

To anyone else with similar thoughts:  Please don't let an unfavorable vesting schedule dissuade you from investing at least up to the match. First, plans change and we often stay longer than planned. Second, vesting is one of the most easily negotiated items when leaving a company. Employers can and often do allow someone to be vested fully as part of an exit buyout. You have to ask for it though. You never know what can happen, so don't assume it's not worth it.

[Target2018]

Just this morning in the breakroom, someone is talking about a friend that won 1.2 million with a scratch-off lottery ticket.  A company Director (in his mid 50s) comments, "If I won that I could probably cut the number of years I have left to work by 10". I'd be out of here today

[dragoncar]

Just this morning in the breakroom, someone is talking about a friend that won 1.2 million with a scratch-off lottery ticket.  A company Director (in his mid 50s) comments, "If I won that I could probably cut the number of years I have left to work by 10". I'd be out of here today

Hey, same here!

[CommonCents]

Due to vesting, I wouldn't get anything but a tiny fraction of the match, so I didn't do it.

To anyone else with similar thoughts:  Please don't let an unfavorable vesting schedule dissuade you from investing at least up to the match. First, plans change and we often stay longer than planned. Second, vesting is one of the most easily negotiated items when leaving a company. Employers can and often do allow someone to be vested fully as part of an exit buyout. You have to ask for it though. You never know what can happen, so don't assume it's not worth it.

Agreed I wouldn't do this now - but at the time I was 21, making a very small salary in an expensive city with expensive student loans.  We all don't optimize.  I'm pretty pleased I walked away from that time of life with no further debt and some student loans paid down.  (And I did leave as planned.)  That said, I'm pretty skeptical that a low level employee would receive an exit buyout.  (I know you say it happens, but even in general, I find it doesn't make sense for the company to agree to it, when you are leaving.)

[AlanStache]

Generic question from someone who has had very few "adult jobs" but what are you negotiating with when you are leaving a company that you could get the vesting taken care of?

[Bigote]

Generic question from someone who has had very few "adult jobs" but what are you negotiating with when you are leaving a company that you could get the vesting taken care of?

I think the idea of negotiating it on your way out is unusual to say the least.   The whole idea of vesting is to give you the incentive to stay.  The one exception (in my experience) is if the company lets you go -  then it is pretty common or even standard to have vesting accelerated.   

Its also common, at least in the investment banking world, for the acquiring bank to make you whole on any unvested stock from the bank you're leaving.  e.g. you quit JP Morgan to go to Credit Suisse, leaving $X worth of shares on the table vesting over 3 years.   Credit Suisse then gives you the equivalent value in their shares vesting over the same timeframe - they've kept you whole, in other words.

[Zamboni]

How about this one:

Our CFO was discussing operating costs with another exec and when he found out the average salary of our employees he said, "How do they live on that?!  I spend more than that each year just on wine!".

Not that anything will be done for any of these nice people, but it disgusts me every time I think about it.

Wow, just wow. 

[alphalemming]

Negotiating accelerated vesting sounds like something more common when negotiating a severance package

[ritz]

A partner, talking about one of her clients with another partner: "That talk you gave <client> really opened his eyes. He sold off $70,000 of his wine collection to pay down some of his debts!"

[countdown]

Man who is consistently unhappy at work for one reason or another: "I don't stay here for the money, I have a side business that pays 2x my salary and have enough in the bank to not need the extra money. I stay for the medical (benefits)."

It makes me want to cry. Especially now that the Exchanges are open, purchasing individual coverage can be done with small investment of time and self-education, freeing up the rest of his life! He didn't want to hear it.

[Bigote]

A partner, talking about one of her clients with another partner: "That talk you gave <client> really opened his eyes. He sold off $70,000 of his wine collection to pay down some of his debts!"

A first step!   Brings tears to my eyes.  lol

[SweetLife]

Ok my antimustachian shame ... I went shopping in the states on the 1st of April and bought a bunch of stuff ... then came back to Canada took husband to shop for a bunch of stuff (groceries etc) ... Spent my entire shipping budget for April in 1 day ...

Yes the freezer is full of yummy meat ... and the fridge is full of veggies BUT most of the rest of the stuff though "on sale" could have waited till half way through the month ...

This month we decided to keep all receipts to make sure we were within the budget I had come up with lol... big FAIL
So face punching myself and leaving all future shopping to  my husband who is much better at "going in getting what we need and leaving ... not cruising the aisles for "deals" ugh "

[going2ER]

"I would be rich if I could stop eating out"

Why yes you would be, but are you actually planning on stopping? There is nothing forcing you to eat out all the time. It's amazing how some people think.

[Shor]

A partner, talking about one of her clients with another partner: "That talk you gave <client> really opened his eyes. He sold off $70,000 of his wine collection to pay down some of his debts!"

A first step!   Brings tears to my eyes.  lol

It makes me want to vomit.... happily.. but... ugh.. more than my salary in wine..

[Norrie]

Man who is consistently unhappy at work for one reason or another: "I don't stay here for the money, I have a side business that pays 2x my salary and have enough in the bank to not need the extra money. I stay for the medical (benefits)."

It makes me want to cry. Especially now that the Exchanges are open, purchasing individual coverage can be done with small investment of time and self-education, freeing up the rest of his life! He didn't want to hear it.

I stay at my job because of the medical benefits, because I have REALLY GOOD benefits through work, and we have a family member with an expensive chronic illness. Our medical bills are ridiculous despite our good insurance, and after looking into the exchange, we weren't comfortable with our options. Any of my co-workers looking in from the outside would probably wonder what in the hell we're doing, because I earn very little, my husband earns more than enough to be a one-income family, and there are a lot of other things that I'd like to do. But our extensive medical needs (which may not be completely obvious to others) make leaving my job a very, very frightening thing to do.

[stevesteve]

Man who is consistently unhappy at work for one reason or another: "I don't stay here for the money, I have a side business that pays 2x my salary and have enough in the bank to not need the extra money. I stay for the medical (benefits)."

It makes me want to cry. Especially now that the Exchanges are open, purchasing individual coverage can be done with small investment of time and self-education, freeing up the rest of his life! He didn't want to hear it.

I stay at my job because of the medical benefits, because I have REALLY GOOD benefits through work, and we have a family member with an expensive chronic illness. Our medical bills are ridiculous despite our good insurance, and after looking into the exchange, we weren't comfortable with our options. Any of my co-workers looking in from the outside would probably wonder what in the hell we're doing, because I earn very little, my husband earns more than enough to be a one-income family, and there are a lot of other things that I'd like to do. But our extensive medical needs (which may not be completely obvious to others) make leaving my job a very, very frightening thing to do.

The maximum out-of-pocket cost limit for any individual Marketplace plan for 2014 can be no more than $6,350 for an individual plan and $12,700 for a family plan.

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/

Am I missing something?  Are there lots of things that aren't "essential health benefits" that you have to pay for?  Is it prescriptions?

[Peony]

@stevesteve, she may live in a state that doesn't have many options under its exchange. For example, Alabama residents have about seven health plans from which to choose; the national average is 53 (based on article from the interwebs that claimed to be citing Dept. of Health & Human Services info).

[huadpe]

The maximum out-of-pocket cost limit for any individual Marketplace plan for 2014 can be no more than $6,350 for an individual plan and $12,700 for a family plan.

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/

Am I missing something?  Are there lots of things that aren't "essential health benefits" that you have to pay for?  Is it prescriptions?

Also, that out of pocket max is for in-network services only.  Most of the ACA plans have somewhat narrow networks, and if you have an obscure condition, there may well be zero specialists who treat it and are within an ACA network.

The reason that work coverage can cover that and an ACA plan won't is that some employers, in order to attract good talent, pay through the nose for extremely good coverage.  I'm talking $2000-3000 per employee per month paid by the employer.

Now, an extremely expensive plan with great out of network benefits like that could be sold on the exchanges or even off-exchange, but it would be a financial disaster for the insurers.  Because only extremely sick people with expensive chronic conditions would buy it.

edited to fix quote messup

[The Mobile Mustachian]

AnnaD
I could write a book with stories like this. I think my favorite was the employee that came into my office and spent 10 minutes telling me a tale of woe about their financial situation. Finally he said the bottom line was he needed to take out a 401k loan. My response was "you never signed up for the 401k plan!"

This one is my favorite.

[greenmimama]

AnnaD
I could write a book with stories like this. I think my favorite was the employee that came into my office and spent 10 minutes telling me a tale of woe about their financial situation. Finally he said the bottom line was he needed to take out a 401k loan. My response was "you never signed up for the 401k plan!"

This one is my favorite.

And also the saddest.

[AlanStache]

AnnaD
I could write a book with stories like this. I think my favorite was the employee that came into my office and spent 10 minutes telling me a tale of woe about their financial situation. Finally he said the bottom line was he needed to take out a 401k loan. My response was "you never signed up for the 401k plan!"

This one is my favorite.

And also the saddest.

Yeah cant say I am real big on laughing at people in this much trouble because of there own ignorance.  Should they have known better, yes, but I am sure I have messed up lots of times where I did not see it coming from an angle others would have said was obvious.

EDIT: I am more than happy to laugh at people making bad choices, and hearing this sort of story is a great warring for others I just dont like taking it light heartedly.

[Thegoblinchief]

"$100 is cheap enough to buy it and replace it in a year when I find something I really like."

[Zamboni]

^What is this $100 about?  Because if it's a car, then I agree.  Getting a year out of a $100 car would be pretty sweet.  Is it shirt?  Then not such a good deal.

[Thegoblinchief]

Light fixtures, decorative home goods, that kind of thing.

If it had been a car, I'd be sharing their badassity :P

[skunkfunk]

Light fixtures, decorative home goods, that kind of thing.

If it had been a car, I'd be sharing their badassity :P

I guess I should brag on my coworker! He buys, fixes up, and then sells early 90's ford festivas, all for under $1000. They get 40 mpg if you're normal, 60+ if you are him. He drives it to work. Unfortunately his commute is over 20 miles, but hey, at least he has the least expensive and most efficient car that I have ever heard of.

[FunkyStickman]

Light fixtures, decorative home goods, that kind of thing.

If it had been a car, I'd be sharing their badassity :P

I guess I should brag on my coworker! He buys, fixes up, and then sells early 90's ford festivas, all for under $1000. They get 40 mpg if you're normal, 60+ if you are him. He drives it to work. Unfortunately his commute is over 20 miles, but hey, at least he has the least expensive and most efficient car that I have ever heard of.

I used to have a Festiva, great little cars. I'd recommend one to almost anybody, you'd be surprised what you can haul in one.

[Travis]

Military Facepunch Extravaganza!

Bullshitting with a civilian  consultant:

Consultant: Must be nice to be here tax-free.
Me: Must be nice to make more than three times as much as me.
Consultant: Well, I'm paying more in taxes than your annual salary.
Me: Are you putting any of it into an IRA?
Consultant: A what?
(I explain the concept, but he says he isn't interested in that because he couldn't spend it right away.)

During a lesson about military retirement (warning against borrowing cash from your future pension):

Staff Sergeant: Now, how could you spend $100,000?
Corporal, mockingly: Invest it? RIGHT (Accountant)?
Sergeant, seriously: You could get a car. No, you could afford 3 car payments!

Eating lunch:

Me: How long are you going to be out here?
Contractor: As long as I can. I could use the money.
Me: I don't blame you. If I was making such good money, I'd retire in a couple years.
Contractor: Well, even if I stay the whole deployment I won't be out of debt.
Me: Did you buy a house?
Contractor: No, I have $130,000 in student loans and credit card debt.
Me: Woah, that's a lot, but at least you got a degree out of it.
Contractor: I didn't even get a degree.

(He took college classes at one of those for profit online schools aimed at military, I forget which one.)

I bumped into a SPAWAR contractor (internet cafe maintenance) in Afghanistan a couple years ago.  He was late 20s and making over $200k to fly around and maintain a few of the cafes on the FOBs.  He also bragged that he paid more in taxes than my troops were making (same career field).  He couldn't shut up about the computer equipment and sports car he was going to buy when he got home.  His US-based salary was about $50k.  The conversation ended when I asked about his long term financial goals.  On the opposite end, I was talking to the head generator mechanic at Kandahar Airfield a few weeks later. He was late 50s, early 60s and making around $250k that year.  It sounded like he was pretty much set without this deployment, but he was using the money to buy their retirement home in cash and pay off the previous two he owned to become rentals to fund his retirement. 

I'm deploying again in a couple weeks and just finished a decent series of financial seminars.  Usually the younger troops plan on blowing their money on toys, but a few took interest in fancy new ideas like compound interest and the older crowd looked at how to fine tune their portfolios and debt reduction.

[Thegoblinchief]

I used to have a Festiva, great little cars. I'd recommend one to almost anybody, you'd be surprised what you can haul in one.

Never had a Festiva, but my brother used to have a 87 Civic hatch (similar size). Once hauled enough lumber to patch a 15x15 hole in a deck where a hot tub used to be.

[Hedge_87]

Not overheard but seen today. My coworker and I had to go the city building. It's a VERY small town. Instead of parking in the first available spot on the opposite side of the road and simply walking across the street. We instead drove past the building to the next block, drove all the way around the block so we could be heading the right way to park directly in front of the building right next to the handicap spot. I sat in the car trying to rationalize what I had just witnessed and couldn't come up with anything. It is a 20mph road with very light traffic so saftey in crossing was not an issue. There is no cross walks so it wasn't for fear of jaywalking lol

[happyfeet]

Well, in the neighborhood...a neighbor paid $80 for a few ounces of super fantastic shampoo.  Rolls eyes.