Overheard at Work

[mtn]

I think we need a thread on the best pizza:

0) Homemade
1) Fast Food Chains
2) Restaurant Chains (like Cali Pizza Kitchen)
3) Frozen

Man, I love pizza.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/share-your-homemade-pizza/

Also quite delicious for lunch the next day.

Like my stance on beer, I firmly believe that anyone can make something that is decent in quality and much more cost efficient with a little practice

Been through that thread. Made a couple of the pizzas. Reaffirmed my earlier belief that Pizza is one of the few things that I cannot make good enough/inexpensive enough to justify not ordering out.

Between the time to make it (dough and sauce specifically, each take at least 2 hours to do right) and the cleanup, it just isn't worth it. FOR ME.

[kelvin]

We had an NYC event coordinator coming to my employer for a weekend event - definitely not in NYC.

She asked if someone was coming to get her from the airport. Okay. Then if someone would take her here and there and back and forth. Nice lady.

The obvious answer was to rent a car. Said she couldn't do that b/c she gave up her license years ago.

And then she took a job where she travels out of the city! ;)

Time to go get another license. You'll need it...

What about:
Uber/Lyft??
Taxi??
City bike??

Everyone owns a car here or several. Town does not have a big taxi business but there are a few. That was the humor of the situation to us. She was fine in the end. Probably thinking twice about any assumptions that the country is uniformly like a big city with its myriad of transport options.

People I've met who have "given up their license" were all trouble. Trouble of the I-can't-get-insurance variety, usually with a side order of my-credit-score-is-garbage. They can't afford the insurance or the car or both.

Dunno what this lady used to do, but I hope what she's doing now is working out well for her, that she's learned from the past and is moving forward in a good direction.

[Chris22]

I think we need a thread on the best pizza:

0) Homemade
1) Fast Food Chains
2) Restaurant Chains (like Cali Pizza Kitchen)
3) Frozen

Man, I love pizza.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/share-your-homemade-pizza/

Also quite delicious for lunch the next day.

Like my stance on beer, I firmly believe that anyone can make something that is decent in quality and much more cost efficient with a little practice

Been through that thread. Made a couple of the pizzas. Reaffirmed my earlier belief that Pizza is one of the few things that I cannot make good enough/inexpensive enough to justify not ordering out.

Between the time to make it (dough and sauce specifically, each take at least 2 hours to do right) and the cleanup, it just isn't worth it. FOR ME.

Agree. We eat pizza once a week usually and it's our Friday night treat to finish off the week. A big part of that treat is not having to cook or clean (aside from rinsing a couple plates) after a week of work.  There are lots and lots of meals I won't order from it because I can do them better, pizza ain't one of them. And honestly neither is beer given the relate I drink it (1-2 cans a week)

[Goldielocks]

We had an NYC event coordinator coming to my employer for a weekend event - definitely not in NYC.

She asked if someone was coming to get her from the airport. Okay. Then if someone would take her here and there and back and forth. Nice lady.

The obvious answer was to rent a car. Said she couldn't do that b/c she gave up her license years ago.

And then she took a job where she travels out of the city! ;)

Time to go get another license. You'll need it...

What about:
Uber/Lyft??
Taxi??
City bike??

Everyone owns a car here or several. Town does not have a big taxi business but there are a few. That was the humor of the situation to us. She was fine in the end. Probably thinking twice about any assumptions that the country is uniformly like a big city with its myriad of transport options.

People I've met who have "given up their license" were all trouble. Trouble of the I-can't-get-insurance variety, usually with a side order of my-credit-score-is-garbage. They can't afford the insurance or the car or both.

I don't know why someone would give up a license, unless they stopped driving, moved to a new state with weird license transfer requirements and did not want to renew for $72 (example) when it came around time.    Having a license is almost free unless you have to pay off points or tickets.  You don't need insurance or a car just to carry a drivers license.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

We had an NYC event coordinator coming to my employer for a weekend event - definitely not in NYC.

She asked if someone was coming to get her from the airport. Okay. Then if someone would take her here and there and back and forth. Nice lady.

The obvious answer was to rent a car. Said she couldn't do that b/c she gave up her license years ago.

And then she took a job where she travels out of the city! ;)

Time to go get another license. You'll need it...

What about:
Uber/Lyft??
Taxi??
City bike??

Everyone owns a car here or several. Town does not have a big taxi business but there are a few. That was the humor of the situation to us. She was fine in the end. Probably thinking twice about any assumptions that the country is uniformly like a big city with its myriad of transport options.

People I've met who have "given up their license" were all trouble. Trouble of the I-can't-get-insurance variety, usually with a side order of my-credit-score-is-garbage. They can't afford the insurance or the car or both.

I don't know why someone would give up a license, unless they stopped driving, moved to a new state with weird license transfer requirements and did not want to renew for $72 (example) when it came around time.    Having a license is almost free unless you have to pay off points or tickets.  You don't need insurance or a car just to carry a drivers license.

She could have "given up" her license as part of a plea deal related to impaired driving. In my state, aggravated DWI can be pled down to an ordinary DWI but the offender's license goes away for a while and there's a structured process to get it back.

[economista]

We had an NYC event coordinator coming to my employer for a weekend event - definitely not in NYC.

She asked if someone was coming to get her from the airport. Okay. Then if someone would take her here and there and back and forth. Nice lady.

The obvious answer was to rent a car. Said she couldn't do that b/c she gave up her license years ago.

And then she took a job where she travels out of the city! ;)

Time to go get another license. You'll need it...

What about:
Uber/Lyft??
Taxi??
City bike??

Everyone owns a car here or several. Town does not have a big taxi business but there are a few. That was the humor of the situation to us. She was fine in the end. Probably thinking twice about any assumptions that the country is uniformly like a big city with its myriad of transport options.

People I've met who have "given up their license" were all trouble. Trouble of the I-can't-get-insurance variety, usually with a side order of my-credit-score-is-garbage. They can't afford the insurance or the car or both.

I don't know why someone would give up a license, unless they stopped driving, moved to a new state with weird license transfer requirements and did not want to renew for $72 (example) when it came around time.    Having a license is almost free unless you have to pay off points or tickets.  You don't need insurance or a car just to carry a drivers license.

She could have "given up" her license as part of a plea deal related to impaired driving. In my state, aggravated DWI can be pled down to an ordinary DWI but the offender's license goes away for a while and there's a structured process to get it back.

When I read the original post 2 things came to mind:
1) She is from New York City.  I've never lived there, but from what I've heard it is ridiculously expensive to keep and store a car there.  With all of the public transportation options, it is very likely she simply gave up her license because she didn't ever need one and it was easier to just keep a state ID or a passport as her form of ID.  However, if she is now working a job that requires her to travel outside the city, she should probably get another license. 
2)  She could be visually impaired.  I know quite a few VI people who aren't fully blind to the point where they need to walk around with a cane or dog, but blind enough that it is dangerous for them to drive a vehicle.  My SO is one of them.  He has been legally blind since he was 3 years old, but he could see enough to drive from age 16 to around 28.  At that point he "gave up" his license.  He can see relatively well straight-on during the day (he has RP so extreme tunnel vision) and he is good at hiding it, so most people who meet him have no idea he has a visual impairment. 

[BuffaloStache]

When I read the original post 2 things came to mind:
1) She is from New York City.  I've never lived there, but from what I've heard it is ridiculously expensive to keep and store a car there.  With all of the public transportation options, it is very likely she simply gave up her license because she didn't ever need one and it was easier to just keep a state ID or a passport as her form of ID.  However, if she is now working a job that requires her to travel outside the city, she should probably get another license. 
2)  She could be visually impaired.  I know quite a few VI people who aren't fully blind to the point where they need to walk around with a cane or dog, but blind enough that it is dangerous for them to drive a vehicle.  My SO is one of them.  He has been legally blind since he was 3 years old, but he could see enough to drive from age 16 to around 28.  At that point he "gave up" his license.  He can see relatively well straight-on during the day (he has RP so extreme tunnel vision) and he is good at hiding it, so most people who meet him have no idea he has a visual impairment.

These are both very valid points. I grew up near NYC, and had many friends that moved to NYC when we got older and never bothered renewing their licenses. Having a car there was just too expensive. I also have a friend who is VI, so I could see that here too.

[RyanAtTanagra]

These are both very valid points. I grew up near NYC, and had many friends that moved to NYC when we got older and never bothered renewing their licenses. Having a car there was just too expensive. I also have a friend who is VI, so I could see that here too.

I don't own a car, but I would never give up my actual license, wtf.  It's not expensive or a lot of effort to maintain a license.  I didn't realize that was something people did.  Do they think they'll never again step foot outside of NYC, where reasonable public transit isn't an option?  Or have to DD for someone?  Or rent a car to go on vacation?  I guess if you live in your little neighborhood bubble and never leave it... but man that seems short sighted.

[Dollar Slice]

These are both very valid points. I grew up near NYC, and had many friends that moved to NYC when we got older and never bothered renewing their licenses. Having a car there was just too expensive. I also have a friend who is VI, so I could see that here too.

I don't own a car, but I would never give up my actual license, wtf.  It's not expensive or a lot of effort to maintain a license.  I didn't realize that was something people did.  Do they think they'll never again step foot outside of NYC, where reasonable public transit isn't an option?  Or have to DD for someone?  Or rent a car to go on vacation?  I guess if you live in your little neighborhood bubble and never leave it... but man that seems short sighted.

For the record, it was a giant, GIANT pain in my ass to transfer my license from MA after I moved to NYC. I ended up having to take a day and a half off work and ended up visiting two different social security offices and two different DMVs before successfully getting a license. I haven't driven a car in 15 years and it was pretty tempting to just say "fuck it."

[Reynold]

These are both very valid points. I grew up near NYC, and had many friends that moved to NYC when we got older and never bothered renewing their licenses. Having a car there was just too expensive. I also have a friend who is VI, so I could see that here too.

I didn't realize that was something people did.  Do they think they'll never again step foot outside of NYC, where reasonable public transit isn't an option?  Or have to DD for someone?  Or rent a car to go on vacation?  I guess if you live in your little neighborhood bubble and never leave it... but man that seems short sighted.

I visited my aunt in NYC in grad school, and she was paying as much to park her car as I paid in rent for my apartment.  She later gave up her car.  Native New Yorkers can be a special folk, sure, sure they expect to go to other places, like San Francisco or Boston.  But why would you ever go anywhere smaller/less civilized than that, what could they possibly have to offer? 

I had a friend who grew up in NYC, when he heard DW and I were honeymooning for 2 weeks in England, he assumed we would spend the whole time in London, as he did when he was there for a semester.  No, there are some other things to see in England too, thanks. . . :)   To be fair, he did have a driver's license so he could rent a car once in a while to visit a wilderness area like Connecticut.   

To drag this at least tangentially back to the "at work" part of the thread, when our CEO visits, he does expect one of the other upper executives to drive him around places.  Uber is a bit thin in this area, and wasn't here at all until relatively recently.  Rank hath its privileges. 

[BuffaloStache]

To drag this at least tangentially back to the "at work" part of the thread, when our CEO visits, he does expect one of the other upper executives to drive him around places.  Uber is a bit thin in this area, and wasn't here at all until relatively recently.  Rank hath its privileges.

Thanks for steering us back in the right direction :-P. My CEO does this frequently as well, even when he is at the company headquarters. I always figured it was a personal security thing (one of our building security members acts as his private body guard in some insrances), but maybe it's a rank thing too.

[WildJager]

Sitting at lunch today, coworkers are talking about the expensive price of alcohol here (in Québec alcohol is price-hiked and managed by the province in order to collect taxes on it - it's much much more expensive than elsewhere in North America, beer being the exception).

CW 1: I think I could have bought a second house by now with the amount of money alcohol has cost me in my life so far.
CW 2: Ugh, me too, it's so ridiculously expensive. *wah wah* the government is robbing us blind.
CW 1: My wife tells me its a waste but she likes wine as much as I do.
CW 1 & CW 2: *Look at me.
Me: I'm not really a drinker, I don't care much for alcohol.
CW 3: Wow, you must be rich!
Me internally: yes, as we all are - alcohol is a luxury you f***heads, not a necessity.
Me out loud: rock climbing gear and camping weekends are expensive... that's my alcohol budget.
Me internally: no they aren't, not if you do it right. Quick, eat your sandwich, GET OUT!

Whenever I get shit for being "cheap" due to bike commuting, bringing lunch, etc followed up with comments about how I must be loaded, my go to response is, "I would be, but I spend it all on hookers and blow."

Then silently answer, "Yeah, I am loaded, you made the connection yourself.  Follow through."  I think most people don't recognize that saving money is investing in freedom.  They don't understand how much you actually need to be FI (you hear people say shit like $5MM or something dumb) and assume it's an impossible amount to save, therefore why bother. 

[Abooki]

Whenever I get shit for being "cheap" due to bike commuting, bringing lunch, etc followed up with comments about how I must be loaded, my go to response is, "I would be, but I spend it all on hookers and blow."

Then silently answer, "Yeah, I am loaded, you made the connection yourself.  Follow through."  I think most people don't recognize that saving money is investing in freedom.  They don't understand how much you actually need to be FI (you hear people say shit like $5MM or something dumb) and assume it's an impossible amount to save, therefore why bother.

I can definitely RELATE to this just from today.
CW1:"hey we get paid this week?"
Me: " no that is next week"
CW1:" I would lost without *insert wife's name*. I would have bill collectors following me" (side note: when gets calls he always says I am not answering that that is a bill collector"
Me: "We(my partner and I) look at the finances together. Since we have goals we need to meet together"
CW1: "Totally understand I have to make my mortgage payment and pay the 400$ baby photoshoot - this month"
Me :" Definitely not that for us- we are planning for early retirement at 35"
CW1: "WHAT 35!" *laughs like I don't know what I am talking about*
Me: "Yes 35- anything is possible with proper planning and frugal behaviour"
CW1: "How much do you think you need?"
Me: " around 600k"
CW1: "WHAT - and how long to plan on being alive. Well I guess you are not going to have kids. And if you do I will definitely be checking to see how this little plan of yours goes" *continues to laugh like I am stupid*
CW2 - gives me a look since we are both into FIRE. And later IMs me.

Me: "I plan on living as long as I can. please do- and we are definitely going to have kids"
I find it funny how someone who is living pay check to pay check, buys 10 dollar breakfast at work and 11 dollar lunches and lives 30 miles one way to work is so skeptical on how I am living my life. And even if that FI number goes up. He honestly thinks that one needs millions to retire.

[lifejoy]

I work with a woman whose 60+ year old parents are buying her a car (she's in her 40's) because she can't afford one. They are still working. She gets her nails and hair done regularly. She makes $60k a year.

This pains me.

[Tom Bri]

[/quote]

Tobacco seeds are so tiny, they get everywhere and into everything.  Yet when they grow, they look like many other "desired" annuals for the first couple of months.  I remember once weeding and I ripped out everything BUT the tobacco plants.     Therefore, I do not recommend growing your own tobacco due to the challenges wind-spread tobacco seeding brings.
[/quote]

Not very aggressive, and easy to remove. A few will pop up as volunteers in the garden. I like the look of the plant, and it has a very pretty cluster of pink flowers.

I roll and smoke maybe 5 or 6 cigars a year. They taste decent, not as good as a really good cigar. Chewed, home-cured tobacco has a nice flavor, and is less aggravating than store bought, although a LOT less nicotine.

[kib]

I can definitely RELATE to this just from today.

Me :" Definitely not that for us- we are planning for early retirement at 35"
CW1: "WHAT 35!" *laughs like I don't know what I am talking about*
Me: "Yes 35- anything is possible with proper planning and frugal behaviour"
CW1: "How much do you think you need?"
Me: " around 600k"
CW1: "WHAT - and how long to plan on being alive. Well I guess you are not going to have kids. And if you do I will definitely be checking to see how this little plan of yours goes" *continues to laugh like I am stupid*

I find it funny how someone who is living pay check to pay check, buys 10 dollar breakfast at work and 11 dollar lunches and lives 30 miles one way to work is so skeptical on how I am living my life. And even if that FI number goes up. He honestly thinks that one needs millions to retire.

  Well ya gotta admit, if he's going to live like that, he Will need millions.  I don't think he's skeptical about how you're living your life, he's totally clueless.  Educating the mindless masses is a long road, but fortunately it has lots of turning.  Personally, I'd laugh my way to the bank.

[BuffaloStache]

I can definitely RELATE to this just from today.
CW1:"hey we get paid this week?"
Me: " no that is next week"
CW1:" I would lost without *insert wife's name*. I would have bill collectors following me" (side note: when gets calls he always says I am not answering that that is a bill collector"
Me: "We(my partner and I) look at the finances together. Since we have goals we need to meet together"
CW1: "Totally understand I have to make my mortgage payment and pay the 400$ baby photoshoot - this month"
Me :" Definitely not that for us- we are planning for early retirement at 35"
CW1: "WHAT 35!" *laughs like I don't know what I am talking about*
Me: "Yes 35- anything is possible with proper planning and frugal behaviour"
CW1: "How much do you think you need?"
Me: " around 600k"
CW1: "WHAT - and how long to plan on being alive. Well I guess you are not going to have kids. And if you do I will definitely be checking to see how this little plan of yours goes" *continues to laugh like I am stupid*
CW2 - gives me a look since we are both into FIRE. And later IMs me.

This is why I'm not clear with my FIRE plans to most of my coworkers. They know I live frugally, but I don't think any of them realize how much my DW makes and that we have plans to RE. I find it a lot less awkard that way.

[Abooki]

This is why I'm not clear with my FIRE plans to most of my coworkers. They know I live frugally, but I don't think any of them realize how much my DW makes and that we have plans to RE. I find it a lot less awkard that way.

Definitely that is way forward for me.

[rockeTree]

CW Tuesday: I'm very frugal but my one indulgence is that I just have to have a brand new car every two years. (Note long driving commute).

CW Wednesday: shoes are my real indulgence, well shoes and cars I guess!

CW Thursday (at lunch, four people, three of whom are eating packed lunches): I just don't know how you can find time to make lunches. I eat lunch out every day and really dinner almost every day. We hate doing dishes so...

In the last two months said CW has bought a new house ("can't have a baby in a condo!"), with stated plans of buying another larger house if there's ever a second kid, bought all new furniture for every room in the house ("our old stuff didn't really suit the scale of the rooms in the new place") and complained about the salary just to me at least four times... there must be a grand a month of pure fluff that could be had by keeping a car for five years and learning some basic cooking skills.


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[Playing with Fire UK]

...there must be a grand a month of pure fluff that could be had by keeping a car for five years and learning some basic cooking skills.

You wouldn't deny your colleague their one indulgence surely? They are pretty frugal apart from the indulgences. And cooking creates dishes to be washed up; are you a monster?

[Travis]

I've been giving one of my coworkers occasional investing advice ever since he mentioned a) he admitted he has very little invested despite his decent salary and b) he's heard me talk about it a few times.  I walked into his office the other day and he and his office-mate were discussing loan options for a new vehicle.  He has three kids of car seat size so he'll need a fairly large vehicle.  My off the cuff advice was "don't get a loan." He responded that he didn't have $40,000 lying around in his account. My counter was "So don't spend $40k."  He said "while that could probably work, I still want my wife to be happy with me."  Apparently she's the one pushing for a brand new vehicle.  I'm not blaming her for their saving issues because I don't know the couple that well, but since a car payment like that is a significant part of a household budget he'll have some hurdles to overcome if he's serious about saving.

[kelvin]

I've been giving one of my coworkers occasional investing advice ever since he mentioned a) he admitted he has very little invested despite his decent salary and b) he's heard me talk about it a few times.  I walked into his office the other day and he and his office-mate were discussing loan options for a new vehicle.  He has three kids of car seat size so he'll need a fairly large vehicle.  My off the cuff advice was "don't get a loan." He responded that he didn't have $40,000 lying around in his account. My counter was "So don't spend $40k."  He said "while that could probably work, I still want my wife to be happy with me."  Apparently she's the one pushing for a brand new vehicle.  I'm not blaming her for their saving issues because I don't know the couple that well, but since a car payment like that is a significant part of a household budget he'll have some hurdles to overcome if he's serious about saving.

Ehhhh... I've met some couples where the spouse is accustomed to a certain lifestlye, and would seriously consider divorce if that were to change drastically.

I've also met couples that use "I need it to keep the spouse happy" or "I need it for the kids" or "the kids deserve only the best" as an excuse to buy the luxury item they don't need.

[Sydneystache]

Colleague earns a base rate of $50K. He went to a private school as a kid. His wife has expensive tastes. He is now doing all sorts of side jobs, because oh fuck - wife wants a bigger house and he has family pressure from his father to send his 3 boys to the same private school that he attended (where fees are at $20k a year).

The ironic thing is he is in a catchment area where the local government high school is beating said private school in the local tests (NAPLAN) here. As for his wife, met her once...sorry but you didn't marry someone rich, you're not rich, and apparently she bitches he is too busy working. Get off your arse, give your kids to your in-laws (but can't, she doesn't like his mum) and start working again!

I give them 3 years. Max.

[cheapass]

I've been giving one of my coworkers occasional investing advice ever since he mentioned a) he admitted he has very little invested despite his decent salary and b) he's heard me talk about it a few times.  I walked into his office the other day and he and his office-mate were discussing loan options for a new vehicle.  He has three kids of car seat size so he'll need a fairly large vehicle.  My off the cuff advice was "don't get a loan." He responded that he didn't have $40,000 lying around in his account. My counter was "So don't spend $40k."  He said "while that could probably work, I still want my wife to be happy with me."  Apparently she's the one pushing for a brand new vehicle.  I'm not blaming her for their saving issues because I don't know the couple that well, but since a car payment like that is a significant part of a household budget he'll have some hurdles to overcome if he's serious about saving.

Is his wife working?

Yes -> hope she likes her job enough to work an extra year or two to pay for an unnecessary vehicle.

No-> what the fuck is she doing frivolously spending the family's money that her husband busts his ass to earn?

[11ducks]

Colleague earns a base rate of $50K. He went to a private school as a kid. His wife has expensive tastes. He is now doing all sorts of side jobs, because oh fuck - wife wants a bigger house and he has family pressure from his father to send his 3 boys to the same private school that he attended (where fees are at $20k a year).

The ironic thing is he is in a catchment area where the local government high school is beating said private school in the local tests (NAPLAN) here. As for his wife, met her once...sorry but you didn't marry someone rich, you're not rich, and apparently she bitches he is too busy working. Get off your arse, give your kids to your in-laws (but can't, she doesn't like his mum) and start working again!

I give them 3 years. Max.

My bro and his wife are battling this at the moment. She grew up wealthy and went to the finest
Private school in the area (absolutely lovely, bright girl, but has never really had a job in spite of her fine education), my bro went public, doing ok on a modest-reasonable wage ($50k) that supports their small family. Her mother (horrible botoxed lush) is demanding they send 4yr old nephew to fancy private school ($20k pa), even though they just bought a house on the same street as a lovely public school. She dangles money in front of them, but it always comes with strings attached, and she is pretty but generally is awful to my brother. Thankfully, it looks like my brothers wife is on the same page as bro (public school) for now.

[The Guru]

CW Tuesday: I'm very frugal but my one indulgence is that I just have to have a brand new car every two years. (Note long driving commute).

CW Wednesday: shoes are my real indulgence, well shoes and cars I guess!

CW Thursday (at lunch, four people, three of whom are eating packed lunches): I just don't know how you can find time to make lunches. I eat lunch out every day and really dinner almost every day. We hate doing dishes so...

In the last two months said CW has bought a new house ("can't have a baby in a condo!"), with stated plans of buying another larger house if there's ever a second kid, bought all new furniture for every room in the house ("our old stuff didn't really suit the scale of the rooms in the new place") and complained about the salary just to me at least four times... there must be a grand a month of pure fluff that could be had by keeping a car for five years and learning some basic cooking skills.


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After that exchange I'd be dying to ask " OK...where is all this alleged frugality???"

[Abe]

I'm finishing a long, grueling training program to become a surgeon. Some of my co-residents are frugal like me, and are going to be fine. We'll all probably semi-retire in 10-15 years. According to Facebook, some of the residents in other programs are already buying BMWs, while carrying a 6%+ student debt loan equivalent to a mortgage in size. This while they still have another year of training to go!! You should not owe $200k in student debt and owe $50k for a car simultaneously. That is insane.

[BuffaloStache]

In the last two months said CW has bought a new house ("can't have a baby in a condo!"), with stated plans of buying another larger house if there's ever a second kid, bought all new furniture for every room in the house ("our old stuff didn't really suit the scale of the rooms in the new place") and complained about the salary just to me at least four times... there must be a grand a month of pure fluff that could be had by keeping a car for five years and learning some basic cooking skills.

Granted our son is just over a month and a half old, but DW and I live fine in a condo with our baby and have had many relatives/guests spend nights with us. Think about it- the majority of humans on this planet live in similar/less square footage with larger families and somehow make it work.

[sleepyguy]

Most of my coworkers are pretty bad at financial matters, although this particular is clueless.

CW - constantly complains about money and how hard our work is (it isn't, easiest job ever).  Is early 40s, has wages garnished and still over 100K student loans.  Rents because can't gather a down payment, also had "settle" for a used F150 even though he wanted a new one... obviously has monthly payments.  Instead of selling his hold Dodge pickup, the wife uses it as the commuter car now and they sold their compact sedan "huh?".  Oh complains about gas/commute prices constantly.  Eats out everyday.  Oh, doesn't even MAX out the company retirement matching plan because he can't "afford" it... yes you heard that right.  Eats out everyday, yet can't MAX out a measily 6% to get a 6% company match, told me he puts 3%.  Overall nice guy but financial life is a wreck.

[Gone_Hiking]

Colleague earns a base rate of $50K. He went to a private school as a kid. His wife has expensive tastes. He is now doing all sorts of side jobs, because oh fuck - wife wants a bigger house and he has family pressure from his father to send his 3 boys to the same private school that he attended (where fees are at $20k a year).

The ironic thing is he is in a catchment area where the local government high school is beating said private school in the local tests (NAPLAN) here. As for his wife, met her once...sorry but you didn't marry someone rich, you're not rich, and apparently she bitches he is too busy working. Get off your arse, give your kids to your in-laws (but can't, she doesn't like his mum) and start working again!

I give them 3 years. Max.

My bro and his wife are battling this at the moment. She grew up wealthy and went to the finest
Private school in the area (absolutely lovely, bright girl, but has never really had a job in spite of her fine education), my bro went public, doing ok on a modest-reasonable wage ($50k) that supports their small family. Her mother (horrible botoxed lush) is demanding they send 4yr old nephew to fancy private school ($20k pa), even though they just bought a house on the same street as a lovely public school. She dangles money in front of them, but it always comes with strings attached, and she is pretty but generally is awful to my brother. Thankfully, it looks like my brothers wife is on the same page as bro (public school) for now.

Ugh!  A former coworker once insisted that I should put my kid on a private school.  The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year.  Her ex kept fit by doing certain extracurricular activities with the nurses.  So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home.  Private education and designer clothing boutiques was all she knew - but her budget now only allowed for public education and discount retailers.   I can only imagine how it must have felt to have to step down to the level of the masses.  When she was insisting on private school for education of my kid, she really was trying to be helpful,  but boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

[Sydneystache]

The private boys school here are copping it atm because there has been a royal commission into institutional child abuse. One headmaster from a school, Knox, said one of the boys in question was essentially asking for it. Another, from Kings, sent the debt collectors in after the parents refused to pay the fees after their son told them of abuse.

If someone wants to send their kid to a place where they can get bullied, bastardised or anally raped for the privilege of paying $20-$40k a year, I am sure other places will do it more cheaply and will build so-called character for less trauma.

The piteous thing is the abuse was more likely to happen to a kid if he was socially isolated (single parent family) and far from home (boarders/country kids).

[Gone_Hiking]

The private boys school here are copping it atm because there has been a royal commission into institutional child abuse. One headmaster from a school, Knox, said one of the boys in question was essentially asking for it. Another, from Kings, sent the debt collectors in after the parents refused to pay the fees after their son told them of abuse.

If someone wants to send their kid to a place where they can get bullied, bastardised or anally raped for the privilege of paying $20-$40k a year, I am sure other places will do it more cheaply and will build so-called character for less trauma.

The piteous thing is the abuse was more likely to happen to a kid if he was socially isolated (single parent family) and far from home (boarders/country kids).

This is absolutely reprehensible.  Did the commission bring any charges?

[Sydneystache]

Still ongoing

https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au

Re:charges, the commission refers cases to the police and they then investigate and press charges.

[rockeTree]

In the last two months said CW has bought a new house ("can't have a baby in a condo!"), with stated plans of buying another larger house if there's ever a second kid, bought all new furniture for every room in the house ("our old stuff didn't really suit the scale of the rooms in the new place") and complained about the salary just to me at least four times... there must be a grand a month of pure fluff that could be had by keeping a car for five years and learning some basic cooking skills.

Granted our son is just over a month and a half old, but DW and I live fine in a condo with our baby and have had many relatives/guests spend nights with us. Think about it- the majority of humans on this planet live in similar/less square footage with larger families and somehow make it work.

My house is smaller than her old condo and we have four in it just fine. But there must be something she wants but doesn't buy that makes her feel 'frugal'...


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[snowball]

I was talking with a new colleague, a Canadian citizen but working in the US.  She is pretty young and naive generally (first job, first time living away from home) and we started talking about health insurance.  She said that it was cheaper for her to fly home ($200 r/t) if she needed to see a doctor so she declined the health insurance we have through work (We have decent choices and a range of prices).  I asked her about accidents or something unexpected where she couldn't fly home.  Her answer was, "I'm just trying to be extra careful about that..."

Crazy.  You have to be a resident of your province to maintain the health coverage.  Her canadian coverage will expire within 3 months of leaving her province.  US Residents (even canadians) pay for medical clinics and emergency in Canada.

When I lived in Alberta, I did hear of someone living in Montana and going back to Alberta for health care when they needed it; several provinces actually reinstitute coverage immediately, if you don't have bridging coverage from your old province, instead of requiring the 3-month waiting period you get in BC/Ontario/other-provinces-I-forget.  So maybe she plans to return to one of those provinces and get instant coverage*.  I feel like that must be some kind of fraud though, as she's not paying taxes into the health care system, and would probably have to (mis)represent herself as a returning resident, when in reality she'd be planning to return to the States.

*But I bet not.  :P  Seems more likely she's simply never notified the provincial health plan of her change of address, and is letting them believe she still lives with her parents.  Still fraud, but she'll probably get away with it, unless she does something like file a non-resident tax return, which I hear vastly increases the likelihood someone will check up on whether your health coverage is still active.

But all of that aside, it's just ridiculous to rely on no emergencies ever happening to you.  In kindness, I imagine she's not only young and naive, but must also have led a charmed life up to this point - never experienced any unexpected bad events in her life, and can't quite believe such a thing could happen to her.  And maybe she doesn't realize how expensive emergency health care in the U.S. can be, though you'd have to be living under a rock for that...

[infogoon]

Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.

[BabyShark]

Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.

Why would you do that???  I haven't lived there in nearly 9 years but I still refuse to order wings anywhere but Buffalo.

[BuffaloStache]

Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.

As someone who has lived both in/near NYC and in Buffalo- I completely relate.

When ordering pizza here in Colorado I typically just refer to it as "saucy cheese bread", because somehow that makes me feel better about eating it. As for wings, I've found a couple places here in Colorado that have a chef from Buffalo or a Buffalo connection, so their wings are definitely passable.

[Hunny156]

So, this conversation dropped itself into my cubicle a few minutes ago.  Co-worker is waiting for my cube-mate to come back from a meeting, and we made small talk.  I found out it was her first day back from a planned medical procedure about 3 weeks ago.  She's fine, just tired and slowly ramping up to full work days.  But she shared the following nuggets:

*     Short Term Disability has been a pain to deal with, she still hasn't gotten paid and is running out of cash, b/c she has bills to pay.
*     On the day of surgery, she forgot that she had to make a $2K payment, and she couldn't come up with the full amount, so they agreed to bill her for the remainder instead of postponing the surgery.  She pulled out her HSA card, a credit card, and her hubby's CC, but didn't have enough between the three to make the full $2K.  (Our employer front loads our HSA every Jan 1st with $1,300)
*     Since she hasn't received the paycheck from last Friday (we get paid 2x/mo), she's out of cash.  She admitted that she NEVER saves any money, but happened to have a little bit in savings, so she was able to liquidate savings to make the mortgage payment. 

I did my best to be sympathetic, but I'm sure there was a bit of panic on my face.  We live in a relatively LCOL area, she easily makes six figures plus her hubby works too, and we happen to work for a company in financial services that is heavily based on the importance of saving.  Mind. Blown.

[cheapass]

We live in a relatively LCOL area, she easily makes six figures plus her hubby works too, and we happen to work for a company in financial services that is heavily based on the importance of saving.  Mind. Blown.

The cobbler's children truly have no shoes. I'm amazed at how many educated, savvy business/finance people have their work affairs in order but the personal finance is a mess. Like, often times it's the exact same concepts...

[Just Joe]

So, this conversation dropped itself into my cubicle a few minutes ago.

I wonder if that will ever change how they manage their finances.

I imagine for some folks the disappointment of not being able to go out with friends is all it took to nudge them into developing a personal savings plan as a teenager. For other people apparently it takes some major life event first.

[Vindicated]

I imagine for some folks the disappointment of not being able to go out with friends is all it took to nudge them into developing a personal savings plan as a teenager. For other people apparently it takes some major life event first.

Interesting to think about.  I wonder what gave other people that "nudge".

I'm going to go start a thread about it, because I'm bored at work ;)

[Blissful Biker]

I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year, lives with her parents and must have a large closet because she seems to have a never ending supply of fashionable clothes and shoes. 

When it feels appropriate I try to mentor some of the younger folks on my team on basic life skills, particularly the women (as I am one too).  In her performance review we talked about her career goals and life goals.  She would like to move our of her parents place but "can't afford it".   Our company matches retirement savings up to 4% of salary, but she doesn't contribute anything, again because she "can't afford it". 

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.  I fear for the young engineers she flirts with in the office. 

[cheapass]

She would like to move our of her parents place but "can't afford it".   Our company matches retirement savings up to 4% of salary, but she doesn't contribute anything, again because she "can't afford it". 

lol. "Have you thought about why you can't afford it?"

[scottish]

Downside is that when I go elsewhere (other than NY/CT) and people order in/take us out for pizza, it's invariably inferior.  Was at our office in Tulsa once and they ordered in from "the best pizza place in town" and it was almost inedible.

I've lived in Buffalo for twenty-plus years now. I once ordered wings from the hotel bar when I was at a conference in Tempe, Arizona. I know the taste of disappointment.

As someone who has lived both in/near NYC and in Buffalo- I completely relate.

When ordering pizza here in Colorado I typically just refer to it as "saucy cheese bread", because somehow that makes me feel better about eating it. As for wings, I've found a couple places here in Colorado that have a chef from Buffalo or a Buffalo connection, so their wings are definitely passable.

DOH!   I just learned why they're called Buffalo Wings.    I always thought wtf, who thinks buffalos have wings.

[ysette9]

DOH!   I just learned why they're called Buffalo Wings.    I always thought wtf, who thinks buffalos have wings.

Count me in as a second person who learned something today! I always wondered the same thing, but chalked it up to the same nonsense as someone wanting to eat wings to begin with. Then again, I'm not into skin, gristle, or bone, so I can't relate to someone who wants to eat something that is primarily skin, gristle, and bone.

[Dave1442397]

I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year, lives with her parents and must have a large closet because she seems to have a never ending supply of fashionable clothes and shoes. 

When it feels appropriate I try to mentor some of the younger folks on my team on basic life skills, particularly the women (as I am one too).  In her performance review we talked about her career goals and life goals.  She would like to move our of her parents place but "can't afford it".   Our company matches retirement savings up to 4% of salary, but she doesn't contribute anything, again because she "can't afford it". 

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.  I fear for the young engineers she flirts with in the office.

I know someone who did just that. I worked with her 25 years ago, when we were both just starting out at a big corporation. She used to date a lot of prospective husbands. I lost touch after I left the company, but recently found her on Facebook (friend of a friend) and saw that she got married, never worked again, but has a beautiful family and seems to enjoy life. I have no idea what her husband does.

As for the clothes, I worked at a company where the CFO was a single woman in her fifties, making $250k/yr. She always had expensive outfits, and lots of them. She had a house in Texas that she visited a few times a year, and a house in PA that she lived in.

She told us that she was buying a bigger house in PA, and a few people said they'd help her move. It turned out that the reason she needed a bigger house was that she had filled the current three-bedroom house with clothes. The people who helped with the move said that every closet was stuffed, and the bedrooms were filled with department store-style clothes racks. She also admitted that the reason she hadn't sold her house in Texas was that it was also stuffed with clothes and shoes.

[mustachepungoeshere]

DOH!   I just learned why they're called Buffalo Wings.    I always thought wtf, who thinks buffalos have wings.

Count me in as a second person who learned something today!

Third!

[Goldielocks]

I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year, lives with her parents and must have a large closet because she seems to have a never ending supply of fashionable clothes and shoes. 

When it feels appropriate I try to mentor some of the younger folks on my team on basic life skills, particularly the women (as I am one too).  In her performance review we talked about her career goals and life goals.  She would like to move our of her parents place but "can't afford it".   Our company matches retirement savings up to 4% of salary, but she doesn't contribute anything, again because she "can't afford it". 

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.  I fear for the young engineers she flirts with in the office.

ARGH!   

At 22, I earned $38k per year and had moved out and was supporting my full time student husband, owned a car, ate out, owned a few nice outfits, paid for a honeymoon, etc.  I realize inflation and all in the past 20 year would make this seem like $60k now..., but still.   "Can't afford it" indeed!

[LennStar]

As for the clothes, I worked at a company where the CFO was a single woman in her fifties, making $250k/yr. She always had expensive outfits, and lots of them. She had a house in Texas that she visited a few times a year, and a house in PA that she lived in.

She told us that she was buying a bigger house in PA, and a few people said they'd help her move. It turned out that the reason she needed a bigger house was that she had filled the current three-bedroom house with clothes. The people who helped with the move said that every closet was stuffed, and the bedrooms were filled with department store-style clothes racks. She also admitted that the reason she hadn't sold her house in Texas was that it was also stuffed with clothes and shoes.

UFF!!!

I cannot even imagine that. She doesn't us a room as walkable wardrobe but a whole house?

I suspect half of the clothes she never wore even once.

Did she talk with a specialist about her mental problem? And I don't mean someone from the clothes store.
Reminds me of this:
https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/05/facebook-helped-advertisers-target-teens-who-feel-worthless/

According to the report, the selling point of this 2017 document is that Facebook's algorithms can determine, and allow advertisers to pinpoint, "moments when young people need a confidence boost."

by buying useless suff, no doubt.