Overheard at Work

[MamaStache]

Here's another one for you about a co-worker that is approx. 50 yr old, and lives paycheck to paycheck.

She left work early on Thursday because her husband was just notified that he would be laid off in June (over 2 months advance notice).   She walked out an hour early teary-eyed, and the following day called in sick to work.

When I went to her desk this morning, I said "I'm sorry to hear about your husband getting laid off.  Has he heard any more details?"

She proceeded to tell me that they are expecting to lose everything (she was starting to get teary eyed again).   He will get 36 weeks severance and they are just going to try and keep the house.

I asked if he will try to find another job and she said that it was pointless because his position is in a dying field.  He is just going to  "take the summer off and spend it at the cabin with his mom." 

I feel like I shouldn't be this pissed off.  I do not feel bad for them.  It is their own fault for not building up any savings (hello emergency fund!?)   

   

Wait. 8 week's notice + 36 week's severance + 26 weeks of Unemployment, right? My god, that's like 16 months of time at partial or full salary to find a job. Heck if you get right on it, that's almost time enough to retrain in something completely new. This should not be a crisis.

Right, unless you are a lazy idiot.    Question though...   can you get another job while you are still receiving severance from an old company, or would the old company stop paying?   I would be so excited in this situation to earn "double income" and I would work my ass off finding a new job so I could end up ahead.   

[AlanStache]

I've had that since December (FT job+well paid temp job half time) and DOUBLE SALARIES ARE AMAZING. And I'm so busy working I can't find time to do anything except shove the money into my savings investment account.

FTFY

Remember the IRA income limits - if applicable.

[warfreak2]

One guy was bitching that he spends $150 per month on gas PER WEEK.  He has a long drive and also a 6.7 liter massive pickup truck.....cry me a river!

$150 per month isn't too bad so i'm guessing it's $150 a week.  Holy crap, that's almost $8000 in gas a year!

No, the units are $/time², i.e. it measures the rate of acceleration of his clown car spending.

[somepissedoffman]

One guy was bitching that he spends $150 per month on gas PER WEEK.  He has a long drive and also a 6.7 liter massive pickup truck.....cry me a river!

$150 per month isn't too bad so i'm guessing it's $150 a week.  Holy crap, that's almost $8000 in gas a year!

No, the units are $/time², i.e. it measures the rate of acceleration of his clown car spending.

Haha!

[Mori]

He will get 36 weeks severance and they are just going to try and keep the house.

I asked if he will try to find another job and she said that it was pointless because his position is in a dying field.  He is just going to  "take the summer off and spend it at the cabin with his mom." 

I feel like I shouldn't be this pissed off.  I do not feel bad for them.  It is their own fault for not building up any savings (hello emergency fund!?)   

This is sad because they don't even seem to be serious yet (about figuring their plan out). It's like she's given up halfway through the struggle. With that much wiggle room there's so much to do and so many cards they can still play--the defeatist attitude there is the most depressing part.

[Hunny156]

He will get 36 weeks severance and they are just going to try and keep the house.

I asked if he will try to find another job and she said that it was pointless because his position is in a dying field.  He is just going to  "take the summer off and spend it at the cabin with his mom." 

I feel like I shouldn't be this pissed off.  I do not feel bad for them.  It is their own fault for not building up any savings (hello emergency fund!?)   

This is sad because they don't even seem to be serious yet (about figuring their plan out). It's like she's given up halfway through the struggle. With that much wiggle room there's so much to do and so many cards they can still play--the defeatist attitude there is the most depressing part.

One of my good friends is a recruiter, and she sees this happen all the time.  I look at severance as a chance to find a new job before the $$ runs out and maybe even get ahead, but most people look at it like a paid vacation, and a new job will pop up in the nick of time.  I would never be able to enjoy my "time off" if I thought like these people do!

If my employer gave me that much notice and severance, I assure you, my resume would have been out in the market before the end of the 1st day!

[zinnie]

I guess I should just be glad I won't be her in a few years when she graduates with student loans, credit card debt, a bad work ethic, and a PhD in English literature... :)

English literature?!?! Seriously?! Unless what she's getting is actually a PhD in composition and rhetoric from an English department--which is the only English PhD for which there is a viable job market at the moment; comp/rhet is actually doing pretty well--she is doomed. Had she asked your advice earlier and had you come here to transmit her request, I would've pointed her to the Chronicle.com forum (Chronicle for Higher Education), where hundreds upon hundreds of professors and PhD students are available 24/7 to set her straight.

Oh, she is well aware of the landscape/ job market out there. We work in an industry where we have a copy of the latest Chronicle in our break room! :)

[zinnie]

Another one: my company switched from a bi-monthly pay schedule to a bi-weekly pay schedule (pay divided into 26 checks per year instead of 24). Panic ensued because the checks are smaller, even though they come more often. Excerpt from a discussion this morning:

I am so unhappy about the bi-weekly switch in 2014. All of our bills are based on a per-month schedule and now we have less money each month except May and October, when we have a random third paycheck. Responsible people (like me) must cancel automatic payments to the mortgage company, credit cards, student loan companies, etc. because we are not paid the same time each month. Please put a stop to this personal accounting nightmare!!! I cannot get paid less every month until MAY!

Responsible people not being able to handle this switch is my favorite part of the comment...and that she has less money each month except for the months where there are three paychecks. Because, you know, all that matters in personal finance is how many paychecks you get in a month. Not what it adds up to over time...

[AlanStache]

Honestly if I had to adjust things like auto mortgage payment and hold more cash because of the odd timing I might get annoyed too.  I could cope with the change but still if I had to keep more cash uninvested that is not doing me any favors.  Her attitude of things being all about her does not come off well.

[Le0]

Me: Did you get you tax return yet... :) I did

cw: no my father does the families taxes so we have given him all the documents yet.

Me: O ok

cw: but I can't even spend any of it on anything fun this year because we have to pay off a new van!

...

[dragoncar]

Honestly if I had to adjust things like auto mortgage payment and hold more cash because of the odd timing I might get annoyed too.  I could cope with the change but still if I had to keep more cash uninvested that is not doing me any favors.  Her attitude of things being all about her does not come off well.

Agree... I am paid biweekly and would much prefer bimonthly.  I typically have extra cash sloshing around my checking account between the last payday of the month (whenever that is) and automatic payments on the first.  It's fine, but I'd probably be annoyed if they changed my paydays around.

[Tempe]

Honestly if I had to adjust things like auto mortgage payment and hold more cash because of the odd timing I might get annoyed too.  I could cope with the change but still if I had to keep more cash uninvested that is not doing me any favors.  Her attitude of things being all about her does not come off well.

Agree... I am paid biweekly and would much prefer bimonthly.  I typically have extra cash sloshing around my checking account between the last payday of the month (whenever that is) and automatic payments on the first.  It's fine, but I'd probably be annoyed if they changed my paydays around.

This discussion of changes to pay makes me think of one of my coworkers. Our pay periods are the 1st to the 15th, then the 16th to the end of the month. We get paid for those pay periods about 5 days after they end. I have a coworker that freaks out every time rent is coming up because they need that paycheck for rent since the rent is due on the 1st-5th. I dunno how they are  blowing through the other paycheck they got mid way through the month *rolls eyes* I dunno how after 5 months they still freak out over rent after knowing when we get paychecks.

[Paul der Krake]

It would make a lot more sense for everyone to be paid once a month. You know, just like virtually every other bill we pay once a month.

[homehandymum]

It would make a lot more sense for everyone to be paid once a month. You know, just like virtually every other bill we pay once a month.

A couple of people I know get paid monthly.  Everyone else just gasps and says "how do you do it!?  That last week must be hell!" 

Because apparently you just spend money in the account until it is all gone, and then hang on for grim death until the next paycheck comes through.

[nicknageli]

I get an equal psychic thrill out of funding our IRAs for the year (which I did in one day) as I do from putting $20 in the savings account.

[frugalecon]

It would make a lot more sense for everyone to be paid once a month. You know, just like virtually every other bill we pay once a month.

A couple of people I know get paid monthly.  Everyone else just gasps and says "how do you do it!?  That last week must be hell!" 

Because apparently you just spend money in the account until it is all gone, and then hang on for grim death until the next paycheck comes through.

Last summer we vacationed with some friends who are teachers. Their district had just transitioned from paying every month for 12 months to paying only during the 10 months of school. DH and I had fronted the cost of renting the vacation house, and it took months for them to pay their share to us. My impression was that they were pretty broke long before the paychecks started up again.

[Paul der Krake]

It would make a lot more sense for everyone to be paid once a month. You know, just like virtually every other bill we pay once a month.

Yes, but I want to avail myself of the fun of transferring money to savings/investments as often as possible, as the delight does not scale with the amount invested. This is why I like that the two of us, with three jobs and multiple streams of freelance income, experience payday at least 20 times a month. I get an equal psychic thrill out of funding our IRAs for the year (which I did in one day) as I do from putting $20 in the savings account.

I can appreciate that, the reinforcement is powerful motivator.

Personally, I'm the lazy engineer type who wants to deal with everything at once, exactly once a month, preferably in under 15 minutes. Pay rent, glance over CC bills, write a check for whatever tax is due that time of the year, and allocate everything else to the different investment accounts, done. Which is why I love being paid monthly. Don't let any of my coworkers know I said that, though.

[Beaker]

He will get 36 weeks severance and they are just going to try and keep the house.

I asked if he will try to find another job and she said that it was pointless because his position is in a dying field.  He is just going to  "take the summer off and spend it at the cabin with his mom." 

I feel like I shouldn't be this pissed off.  I do not feel bad for them.  It is their own fault for not building up any savings (hello emergency fund!?)   

This is sad because they don't even seem to be serious yet (about figuring their plan out). It's like she's given up halfway through the struggle. With that much wiggle room there's so much to do and so many cards they can still play--the defeatist attitude there is the most depressing part.

One of my good friends is a recruiter, and she sees this happen all the time.  I look at severance as a chance to find a new job before the $$ runs out and maybe even get ahead, but most people look at it like a paid vacation, and a new job will pop up in the nick of time.  I would never be able to enjoy my "time off" if I thought like these people do!

If my employer gave me that much notice and severance, I assure you, my resume would have been out in the market before the end of the 1st day!

It's great if you can make the timing work. I got laid off last summer. They telegraphed it so far in advance that on the day they laid me off I already had a lunch interview scheduled - my third with that company. Signed the papers for new job 5 days after getting laid off. I did take a few weeks of "paid vacation" in between jobs, though.

It still amuses me to think about the manager apologetically telling me they'd have to let me go - and then looking confused about why I was practically laughing in his face.

[skyrefuge]

I could cope with the change but still if I had to keep more cash uninvested that is not doing me any favors. 

I typically have extra cash sloshing around my checking account between the last payday of the month (whenever that is) and automatic payments on the first.

Hmm, we might need to create an Overmustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy too! If a change from 24 to 26 paychecks gives you mental pains over the extra cash you're leaving uninvested, you might be obsessing over details that won't even be visible in your lifetime financial picture. I'm all for optimizing, but you might have already gone past the point of diminishing returns on this one!

[Albert]

It would make a lot more sense for everyone to be paid once a month. You know, just like virtually every other bill we pay once a month.

A couple of people I know get paid monthly.  Everyone else just gasps and says "how do you do it!?  That last week must be hell!" 

Because apparently you just spend money in the account until it is all gone, and then hang on for grim death until the next paycheck comes through.

Hmmm… I've worked part or full time for 17 years now and I've always been paid monthly. Only after reading this board I found out that it is a problem for some folks.

[cdttmm]

A coworker was printing out all of her year-end statements from her various credit cards at work today...because she needed to give them to her accountant so that she could get an interest deduction on her tax return. I don't think she believed me when I told her that her credit card interest isn't deductible...

[dragoncar]

I could cope with the change but still if I had to keep more cash uninvested that is not doing me any favors. 

I typically have extra cash sloshing around my checking account between the last payday of the month (whenever that is) and automatic payments on the first.

Hmm, we might need to create an Overmustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy too! If a change from 24 to 26 paychecks gives you mental pains over the extra cash you're leaving uninvested, you might be obsessing over details that won't even be visible in your lifetime financial picture. I'm all for optimizing, but you might have already gone past the point of diminishing returns on this one!

Hey, man, I said it's fine.... FINE!  I'm fine.



edit:

A coworker was printing out all of her year-end statements from her various credit cards at work today...because she needed to give them to her accountant so that she could get an interest deduction on her tax return. I don't think she believed me when I told her that her credit card interest isn't deductible...

I believe it used to be, so she's not nuts for thinking that. Her information is just very dated, on a par with knowing how to change the ribbon on your typewriter.*

*To the last 3 typewriter users in the universe. Yes, I know you're here; how very mustachian of you. My point stands.

Actually, if she heads over to Loyal3 and buys stocks on credit, is it tax deductible?  AFAIK, investment interest still is.

[Numbers Man]

A coworker was printing out all of her year-end statements from her various credit cards at work today...because she needed to give them to her accountant so that she could get an interest deduction on her tax return. I don't think she believed me when I told her that her credit card interest isn't deductible...

I believe it used to be, so she's not nuts for thinking that. Her information is just very dated, on a par with knowing how to change the ribbon on your typewriter.*

*To the last 3 typewriter users in the universe. Yes, I know you're here; how very mustachian of you. My point stands.

ROFL - I believe the credit card interest deduction was phased out at least 20 years ago. Good one about the typewriter.

[voidmain]

Another one: my company switched from a bi-monthly pay schedule to a bi-weekly pay schedule (pay divided into 26 checks per year instead of 24). Panic ensued because the checks are smaller, even though they come more often. Excerpt from a discussion this morning:

I am so unhappy about the bi-weekly switch in 2014. All of our bills are based on a per-month schedule and now we have less money each month except May and October, when we have a random third paycheck. Responsible people (like me) must cancel automatic payments to the mortgage company, credit cards, student loan companies, etc. because we are not paid the same time each month. Please put a stop to this personal accounting nightmare!!! I cannot get paid less every month until MAY!

Responsible people not being able to handle this switch is my favorite part of the comment...and that she has less money each month except for the months where there are three paychecks. Because, you know, all that matters in personal finance is how many paychecks you get in a month. Not what it adds up to over time...

I would definitely not like getting switched to bi-weekly. It wouldn't mean anything really different for my financial situation but it would trigger my OCDness a bit.

[frugalecon]

Another one: my company switched from a bi-monthly pay schedule to a bi-weekly pay schedule (pay divided into 26 checks per year instead of 24). Panic ensued because the checks are smaller, even though they come more often. Excerpt from a discussion this morning:

I am so unhappy about the bi-weekly switch in 2014. All of our bills are based on a per-month schedule and now we have less money each month except May and October, when we have a random third paycheck. Responsible people (like me) must cancel automatic payments to the mortgage company, credit cards, student loan companies, etc. because we are not paid the same time each month. Please put a stop to this personal accounting nightmare!!! I cannot get paid less every month until MAY!

Responsible people not being able to handle this switch is my favorite part of the comment...and that she has less money each month except for the months where there are three paychecks. Because, you know, all that matters in personal finance is how many paychecks you get in a month. Not what it adds up to over time...

I would definitely not like getting switched to bi-weekly. It wouldn't mean anything really different for my financial situation but it would trigger my OCDness a bit.

I get paid biweekly, and it works out well. The two extra pay checks are essentially identical to our property taxes, so I just use them for that purpose. No need to even budget for it.

[chicagomeg]

A coworker was printing out all of her year-end statements from her various credit cards at work today...because she needed to give them to her accountant so that she could get an interest deduction on her tax return. I don't think she believed me when I told her that her credit card interest isn't deductible...

I believe it used to be, so she's not nuts for thinking that. Her information is just very dated, on a par with knowing how to change the ribbon on your typewriter.*

*To the last 3 typewriter users in the universe. Yes, I know you're here; how very mustachian of you. My point stands.

ROFL - I believe the credit card interest deduction was phased out at least 20 years ago. Good one about the typewriter.

You can also technically take a student loan interest deduction if the only thing you use the card for is qualified educational expenses. Though something tells me that's not the case.

[zinnie]

Another one: my company switched from a bi-monthly pay schedule to a bi-weekly pay schedule (pay divided into 26 checks per year instead of 24). Panic ensued because the checks are smaller, even though they come more often. Excerpt from a discussion this morning:

I am so unhappy about the bi-weekly switch in 2014. All of our bills are based on a per-month schedule and now we have less money each month except May and October, when we have a random third paycheck. Responsible people (like me) must cancel automatic payments to the mortgage company, credit cards, student loan companies, etc. because we are not paid the same time each month. Please put a stop to this personal accounting nightmare!!! I cannot get paid less every month until MAY!

Responsible people not being able to handle this switch is my favorite part of the comment...and that she has less money each month except for the months where there are three paychecks. Because, you know, all that matters in personal finance is how many paychecks you get in a month. Not what it adds up to over time...

I would definitely not like getting switched to bi-weekly. It wouldn't mean anything really different for my financial situation but it would trigger my OCDness a bit.

This is interesting to me--I saw it as a good thing because we get the money sooner, and every two weeks is easier for me to keep straight than trying to remember which day of the week is the 10th and 25th and which day they will deposit it if payday is on the weekend, etc.

I was mostly intrigued/surprised by the fact that she literally thinks that she is getting less money 10 months of the year and more money 2 months of the year. The checks come every two weeks and they are the exact same amount each time. it is only the division into "months" that makes it seem off balance...

I didn't include the whole rant but she went on to complain (on a board visible to my entire company, that is intended for professional discussions) about how she couldn't pay her bills this month and was bringing the issue up with HR, etc. It got very heated and awkward.

[dragoncar]

I was mostly intrigued/surprised by the fact that she literally thinks that she is getting less money 10 months of the year and more money 2 months of the year.

Well, she is getting less money 10 months and more money 2 months.  I see what you are saying, and obviously this shouldn't cause any "responsible" person to have trouble paying bills.  I guess everyone has their own preferences (I don't care what day of the week I get paid, for example).

[dragoncar]

Saw a scene the other day while waiting in a hospital hallway. Two construction workers walked by carrying their lunch coolers. The 2nd fellow had a pretty banged up lunch cooler with no lid, so I could see his various packages sitting in there as well as his banana.  I immediately thought of MMM and how the guy was clearly not wasting his hard earned $$$ on a new lunch cooler...his worked fine for carrying a lunch. Who needs a lid? Made me smile :-))

Cooler without a lid?  I'd just use a bag.

[dragoncar]

@dragoncar -- I was giving the guy the benefit of the doubt in assuming the cooler was a acquired cheap or free ;-) also, a lunch sitting in a sunny car from 7am till noon in a bag might not hold up as well as one in a cooler with a ice pack.

I'm still confused as to the efficacy without a lid.  Anyway, everyone knows you just put your frozen burrito on the dashboard in the morning, and by lunch time you have a hot snack.

[Nudelkopf]

It would make a lot more sense for everyone to be paid once a month. You know, just like virtually every other bill we pay once a month.

I just assumed everyone got paid fortnightly. My bills are all fortnightly (rent, sport.. actually, that's all my bills). Monthly confuses me because each month has a different amount of days in it - there always 14 days in a fortnight, so to me it makes it more even.

[mgarl10024]

Another one: my company switched from a bi-monthly pay schedule to a bi-weekly pay schedule (pay divided into 26 checks per year instead of 24).

I've never understood why:
- bi-monthly means twice per month (24 paycheques)
- bi-weekly means every two weeks (26 paycheques)

Shouldn't bi-weekly mean twice per week?  (or bi-monthly every two months) to be consistent?

MG

[Primm]

I thought bi-monthly *did* mean every two months. I would have thought twice a month should be semi-monthly. Surely there's a grammar Nazi on here who can chime in.

[lithy]

Bimonthly means both twice a month and every two months.

Let that one sink in.

[mgarl10024]

Bimonthly means both twice a month and every two months.

Let that one sink in.

I was going to order a new bicycle, but I now wont know whether it comes with half a wheel or two wheels.  :-)

[warfreak2]

That's language for you. Flammable and inflammable mean the same thing, too. So long as people commonly use (and understand) "bimonthly" to mean "every half a month", then that's what it means. In a strict etymological sense, it should mean "every two months", and "semimonthly" should mean "every half a month", but etymology isn't the only determinant of the meaning of a word. Otherwise a "boyfriend" would be a boy who is your friend.

[AlanStache]

Letting the English majors determine the rules of English instead of the Math and Engineering majors was probably the worst mistake we ever made in setting up the English language.  And dont get me started on how bad the English majors messed up the spelling conventions.

[warfreak2]

English majors don't determine the rules of the English language, though a small number of them might like to pretend they do. In some sense, nobody makes the rules, and in another sense, everybody does.

[Rural]

In some sense, nobody makes the rules, and in another sense, everybody does.

Language is a system that functions only through consensus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Course_in_General_Linguistics

[Paul der Krake]

It would make a lot more sense for everyone to be paid once a month. You know, just like virtually every other bill we pay once a month.

I just assumed everyone got paid fortnightly. My bills are all fortnightly (rent, sport.. actually, that's all my bills). Monthly confuses me because each month has a different amount of days in it - there always 14 days in a fortnight, so to me it makes it more even.

That's interesting, is it typical for bills to be fortnightly in Australia? What about things like utilities or, gasp, cell phone bills?

Funnily enough, rents in England (well London at least) are often advertised per week, but they calculate the pcm, or per-calendar-month amount, and that's what you pay. Maybe because it sounds less expensive? But unless you work a labour intensive job or some sort of temp job, everyone is still paid monthly.

[mgarl10024]

Funnily enough, rents in England (well London at least) are often advertised per week, but they calculate the pcm, or per-calendar-month amount, and that's what you pay.

Maybe, as you suggest, this is London centric.  I live outside of London, and rents are always pcm, although I have recently seen the odd agent start to quote per week - but this is a new development here.

[Primm]

Most bills in Australia are monthly or multiple monthly (quarterly, annual). About the only things I know of that are fortnightly are rent and gym / sports memberships.

[randymarsh]

Funnily enough, rents in England (well London at least) are often advertised per week, but they calculate the pcm, or per-calendar-month amount, and that's what you pay.

Just for fun one time I was looking at London apartments on Craigslist. I kept thinking "I thought London was expensive; these are the same or less than rent here?!?" Then I realized...

[rocksinmyhead]

I think we should all just start using the word "fortnightly" like you Brits and Aussies. I like it, it makes me feel like I'm on a quest or something.

[limeandpepper]

Funnily enough, rents in England (well London at least) are often advertised per week, but they calculate the pcm, or per-calendar-month amount, and that's what you pay.

That's how it works in Melbourne, Australia as well. Or at least every place I've rented here. Apparently some other states do it differently. My company pays fortnightly. Bills are usually monthly or quarterly, sometimes half-yearly, and occasionally you can pay annually for some things, I think.

[Vorpal]

I think we should all just start using the word "fortnightly" like you Brits and Aussies. I like it, it makes me feel like I'm on a quest or something.

Thank you for that, I needed a chuckle :)

[thd7t]

It would make a lot more sense for everyone to be paid once a month. You know, just like virtually every other bill we pay once a month.

A couple of people I know get paid monthly.  Everyone else just gasps and says "how do you do it!?  That last week must be hell!" 

Because apparently you just spend money in the account until it is all gone, and then hang on for grim death until the next paycheck comes through.

I kind of end up feeling that way, because I "pay myself first" and really feel like I don't have that money.  I've done it for as long as I can remember.  I admit that I always feel broke at the end of the month even when I'm saving around 40% (you may scoff, but it's pretty good for me, and getting better).

[Rural]

Funnily enough, rents in England (well London at least) are often advertised per week, but they calculate the pcm, or per-calendar-month amount, and that's what you pay.

Just for fun one time I was looking at London apartments on Craigslist. I kept thinking "I thought London was expensive; these are the same or less than rent here?!?" Then I realized...

Rents at the extreme lower end of slum housing in the city of the college where i work are advertised (and paid, as far as I know) weekly. Mostly I think the target is factory workers, who are paid weekly. I imagine it makes eviction faster as well as making it sound cheaper.

Pay schedules vary wildly around here, but the general rule I've observed is that the more professional the job is considered to be, the less frequent the pay (up to the max of monthly, the schedule both my husband and I are on).

[Fireman]

I think we should all just start using the word "fortnightly" like you Brits and Aussies. I like it, it makes me feel like I'm on a quest or something.

[rocksinmyhead]

I think we should all just start using the word "fortnightly" like you Brits and Aussies. I like it, it makes me feel like I'm on a quest or something.

noooooo! but we were set to reach the Willamette Valley in a fortnight!!!