Overheard at Work

[ysette9]

Like many things in life, I imagine a lot of what we prefer is related to what we grew up with and what we are used to. I spent a winter living in the Denver area and a year in France, both places admittedly have relatively wild weather, but still harsher than what I grew up with. As a kid I would read about snow and thought it sounded so fun and romantic. I completely agree that heat sucks because you can only take off so many clothes and if you are still hot, all you can do is suffer. If you have the right clothes, cold can be okay, as long as you don't have to shovel or scrape or drive.

I travel regularly though not frequent for work across the US. I have only ever been on one trip where I wasn't immensely grateful to be back home again after, and that was this lovely boondoggle trip to the San Juan islands. :) I certainly hear people appreciate four seasons and more power to you. It is way more important to me to never have to think about what measures I have to take to mentally and physically steel myself to fight the uncomfortable elements. The older I get the greater a source of joy that is for me. Again, to each their own.

[russianswinga]

I fantasize about living in San Diego or Hawaii, but I know I'd miss real seasons.

We have seasons in San Diego!
- Fish Taco season
- Carne Asada season
- Guacamole season
- Craft Beer season

If it's weather you're after, it changes too! We have nice, nicer, and excellent weather.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:

I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.

I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

Reminds me of a "small talk" conversation with a male boss from another office recently.  I'm not an engineer but am in a Male dominated industry.  He mentioned that he notices we women seemed to really say what we mean.  Umm myself and the other woman he was talking about are "senior" (have been in the industry for 10+ years) I'm not sure when it happens but after having to continually prove ourselves sometime between 5-15 years in you develop a case of the "I don't give a fucks" with a lot of office politics/small talk.

ETA:  early on in my career I had a boss tell me I should modify the way I talk, "stop talking like a girl" because guys don't want to deal with their wives at work.  I didn't report him because he honestly thought that he was giving me solid career advise.  It was hard to take him seriously after that.

In fairness it's also hard to take a person seriously if they're trying to communicate in baby talk using words like "tummy", "brekkie" and "vacay". It's even worse when they're making their voices artificially high and infantile, and ending? each phrase? with a rising inflection? as though they're asking a question? in an obvious attempt to act insignificant, nonthreatening, and therefore incompetent. I have yet to meet a person who identifies as male be that obviously beta.

[Alim Nassor]

Coworker who makes about 85K/year. Recently sold her duplex which was only a couple miles from work because she was getting married and going to start a family (her unit was a 2 bed/2 bath, probably 1100 sf). Bought a 400K+ "dream house" in the countryside with space for her two horses to live in the backyard (or whatever you call your backyard when it has horses living in it).

"We'll be making a monthly payment to the hospital for, like, the rest of our lives. No, seriously. For like the next 50 years. It's an $80K bill."

This bill is for anti venom for a snake bite that her now husband incurred at their OLD, awesome duplex house, before they got married, when he didn't have health insurance. And they STILL bought the far-away, big dream house. Bummer.

I got bit by a snake while in my backyard.  Anti-venom bill for that was 160k   Total bill was 180k.  Thank God I had insurance from a previous job where they offered severance and benefit continuation, along with the insurance at my new job.  I didn't pay a nickel

[Inaya]

Coworker who makes about 85K/year. Recently sold her duplex which was only a couple miles from work because she was getting married and going to start a family (her unit was a 2 bed/2 bath, probably 1100 sf). Bought a 400K+ "dream house" in the countryside with space for her two horses to live in the backyard (or whatever you call your backyard when it has horses living in it).

"We'll be making a monthly payment to the hospital for, like, the rest of our lives. No, seriously. For like the next 50 years. It's an $80K bill."

This bill is for anti venom for a snake bite that her now husband incurred at their OLD, awesome duplex house, before they got married, when he didn't have health insurance. And they STILL bought the far-away, big dream house. Bummer.

I got bit by a snake while in my backyard.  Anti-venom bill for that was 160k   Total bill was 180k.  Thank God I had insurance from a previous job where they offered severance and benefit continuation, along with the insurance at my new job.  I didn't pay a nickel

Holy crap! I had no idea antivenom was that expensive! I wasn't scared of snakes before, but I might consider it now.

[Just Joe]

There is a side business right there. Raising snakes and collecting venom. (No thanks...)

[TomTX]

It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

On the flip side, the weather here, while always nice, is never exciting.  I miss things like a hot summer day suddenly dropping 20 degrees and knowing a killer thunderstorm is coming that's going to rattle the dishes in the cabinets.  Or 2 feet of beautiful fresh snowfall covering everything.
 And the change of seasons help create a feeling of the passage of time.  Time passes by quicker here, I've noticed, because it's always the same.  I can never complain about the weather in the bay area, but it's definitely not 'perfect' for everyone.

Shoot, we dropped 40 degrees in 10-12 hours recently.

[BuffaloStache]

It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

On the flip side, the weather here, while always nice, is never exciting.  I miss things like a hot summer day suddenly dropping 20 degrees and knowing a killer thunderstorm is coming that's going to rattle the dishes in the cabinets.  Or 2 feet of beautiful fresh snowfall covering everything.
 And the change of seasons help create a feeling of the passage of time.  Time passes by quicker here, I've noticed, because it's always the same.  I can never complain about the weather in the bay area, but it's definitely not 'perfect' for everyone.

Shoot, we dropped 40 degrees in 10-12 hours recently.

This happens all the time in Colorado. 80 degrees one day, snow the next.

[mustachepungoeshere]

In fairness it's also hard to take a person seriously if they're trying to communicate in baby talk using words like "tummy", "brekkie" and "vacay". It's even worse when they're making their voices artificially high and infantile, and ending? each phrase? with a rising inflection? as though they're asking a question? in an obvious attempt to act insignificant, nonthreatening, and therefore incompetent. I have yet to meet a person who identifies as male be that obviously beta.

1. Don't come to Australia. If the garbos get a sore tummy from eating an off avo for brekkie, they might need an ambo.
2. While I don't consider all abbreviations to be baby talk, I'm with you on chronic baby talk and the rising inflection.

http://www.askamanager.org/2013/05/how-to-get-an-employee-to-stop-using-baby-talk-in-the-office.html

[mustachepungoeshere]

In fairness it's also hard to take a person seriously if they're trying to communicate in baby talk using words like "tummy", "brekkie" and "vacay". It's even worse when they're making their voices artificially high and infantile, and ending? each phrase? with a rising inflection? as though they're asking a question? in an obvious attempt to act insignificant, nonthreatening, and therefore incompetent. I have yet to meet a person who identifies as male be that obviously beta.

1. Don't come to Australia. If the garbos get a sore tummy from eating an off avo for brekkie, they might need an ambo.
2. While I don't consider all abbreviations to be baby talk, I'm with you on chronic baby talk and the rising inflection.

http://www.askamanager.org/2013/05/how-to-get-an-employee-to-stop-using-baby-talk-in-the-office.html

Ps. I'm devo* that Marty isn't here to back me up on this. (He's on adventure in Bostwana.)


* Full disclosure: I can't stand this expression!

[RetiredAt63]

Like many things in life, I imagine a lot of what we prefer is related to what we grew up with and what we are used to. I spent a winter living in the Denver area and a year in France, both places admittedly have relatively wild weather, but still harsher than what I grew up with. As a kid I would read about snow and thought it sounded so fun and romantic. I completely agree that heat sucks because you can only take off so many clothes and if you are still hot, all you can do is suffer. If you have the right clothes, cold can be okay, as long as you don't have to shovel or scrape or drive.

I travel regularly though not frequent for work across the US. I have only ever been on one trip where I wasn't immensely grateful to be back home again after, and that was this lovely boondoggle trip to the San Juan islands. :) I certainly hear people appreciate four seasons and more power to you. It is way more important to me to never have to think about what measures I have to take to mentally and physically steel myself to fight the uncomfortable elements. The older I get the greater a source of joy that is for me. Again, to each their own.

You have major earthquake prep instead.    ;-)

[JLee]

It's extremely frustrating, but it seems like the cycle is being set up to repeat itself:

I have a beautiful young lady on my team at work.  She would be about 22 yrs old, earns about $40K/year...

Her master plan is to find a high earning young man to look after her.   It makes me sad.  She is bright and could easily be a self sufficient young woman.   

I feel like that many times leads to what was mentioned earlier in this thread:

...The coworker had just divorced her husband who, as a head of a hospital wing, was bringing in over half a million dollars a year... So they divorced, the judge didn't award alimony, and she had to go back to work after many years of staying at home.  She landed in my group, earning less than one tenth of what her ex used to bring home. 
...boy, dealing with a fallen socialite is something I will not miss.

Hopefully you can influence her onto the path of self sufficiency! FWIW, I'm a male engineer and some of the brightest people I know are independent female engineers that work at my company.

I feel like female engineers have much more drive than their male counterparts in most cases.  They are out to prove they can hack it in what is traditionally male dominated.  My wife is one and she has issues with RE b/c of the drive to prove she can do it all ... many others i run into are quite similar.  - more so in the millenial generation than previous generations as well.  maybe its not true everywhere but alot of the older been around the block female engineers i run into are space taker uppers b/c they know they are satisfying a diversification spot just being there.

Reminds me of a "small talk" conversation with a male boss from another office recently.  I'm not an engineer but am in a Male dominated industry.  He mentioned that he notices we women seemed to really say what we mean.  Umm myself and the other woman he was talking about are "senior" (have been in the industry for 10+ years) I'm not sure when it happens but after having to continually prove ourselves sometime between 5-15 years in you develop a case of the "I don't give a fucks" with a lot of office politics/small talk.

ETA:  early on in my career I had a boss tell me I should modify the way I talk, "stop talking like a girl" because guys don't want to deal with their wives at work.  I didn't report him because he honestly thought that he was giving me solid career advise.  It was hard to take him seriously after that.

In fairness it's also hard to take a person seriously if they're trying to communicate in baby talk using words like "tummy", "brekkie" and "vacay". It's even worse when they're making their voices artificially high and infantile, and ending? each phrase? with a rising inflection? as though they're asking a question? in an obvious attempt to act insignificant, nonthreatening, and therefore incompetent. I have yet to meet a person who identifies as male be that obviously beta.

I have a (male) coworker who does that (plus the occasional exaggerated lispy voice, e.g. "Thtaaaap ihhht").

Fortunately he's not here today, so I can work in peace. :D

[MandalayVA]

After my servitude with Ginormocorp ends, I hope to whatever deity is out there that I NEVER hear these expressions again:

Cool beans
Cool-cool
Awesomesauce--this one in particular can go die in a fire
"I know THAT'S right"
Miss or Mister (name) (WTF, I'm not your owner)

In addition:

Grown women speaking in baby talk
Grown men whining

[9-Volt]

There is a side business right there. Raising snakes and collecting venom. (No thanks...)

All profit could go right out the window with one bite. Or would you get a discount for being in the supply chain?

[BuffaloStache]

After my servitude with Ginormocorp ends...

That is a great way of putting it. I'm definitely stealing this.

[Just Joe]

In fairness it's also hard to take a person seriously if they're trying to communicate in baby talk using words like "tummy", "brekkie" and "vacay". It's even worse when they're making their voices artificially high and infantile, and ending? each phrase? with a rising inflection? as though they're asking a question? in an obvious attempt to act insignificant, nonthreatening, and therefore incompetent. I have yet to meet a person who identifies as male be that obviously beta.

1. Don't come to Australia. If the garbos get a sore tummy from eating an off avo for brekkie, they might need an ambo.
2. While I don't consider all abbreviations to be baby talk, I'm with you on chronic baby talk and the rising inflection.

http://www.askamanager.org/2013/05/how-to-get-an-employee-to-stop-using-baby-talk-in-the-office.html

I used to hear this growing up in the 80s. Usually well off women who stayed at home (no career). Was a friendly greeting to reach out to each other. Like a clique thing.  We didn't do this with our kids, do do this to the family dog sometimes. Can't imagine doing it in a professional setting.

[JustTrying]

It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

When I lived in Southern California (where the residents obsess about the fantastic weather as if it's the most amazing thing possible) I used to say, "Nice weather doesn't make up for mean people!" (I found Southern Californians to be rather selfish). I then moved to the Pacific Northwest, where the weather is terrible and the people are amazing! And that's when I realized that nice weather DOES kind of make up for mean people! ;)

[ysette9]

In l fairness, as a Bay Area native, I can say that southern California is practically a different state. :)

Back to the earthquake comment, that is a risk, but something that happens every decade or two or three. Bad weather is something you deal with all day, day after day. I've been here almost all of my life and have lived through two major earthquakes. Obviously you can't predict which fault will go next, but there is a lot you can do to prepare with earthquake retrofitting, not doing silly things like having lots of glass figurines in a free-standing cabinet, and buying insurance.

[mm1970]

It boggles my mind that people choose to live (or continue living) in places like that where the weather is so inhospitable that you can't even wait at a bus shelter without risking heat stroke or frost bite. I'll take my high cost of housing with my perfect weather over that nonsense any day of the week.

When I lived in Southern California (where the residents obsess about the fantastic weather as if it's the most amazing thing possible) I used to say, "Nice weather doesn't make up for mean people!" (I found Southern Californians to be rather selfish). I then moved to the Pacific Northwest, where the weather is terrible and the people are amazing! And that's when I realized that nice weather DOES kind of make up for mean people! ;)

True that.  I had a hard time when I moved here (Central/ So Cal).  Everyone I met talked about how "awesome" and "friendly" they were.

But it was all superficial.  Not actually friendly.  It took awhile to make friends.  Mostly my friends were grad students, but they kept graduating.  The locals are a hard nut to crack.

[nnls]

In fairness it's also hard to take a person seriously if they're trying to communicate in baby talk using words like "tummy", "brekkie" and "vacay". It's even worse when they're making their voices artificially high and infantile, and ending? each phrase? with a rising inflection? as though they're asking a question? in an obvious attempt to act insignificant, nonthreatening, and therefore incompetent. I have yet to meet a person who identifies as male be that obviously beta.

1. Don't come to Australia. If the garbos get a sore tummy from eating an off avo for brekkie, they might need an ambo.
2. While I don't consider all abbreviations to be baby talk, I'm with you on chronic baby talk and the rising inflection.

http://www.askamanager.org/2013/05/how-to-get-an-employee-to-stop-using-baby-talk-in-the-office.html

Ps. I'm devo* that Marty isn't here to back me up on this. (He's on adventure in Bostwana.)


* Full disclosure: I can't stand this expression!

I will back you up, Aussies abbreviate most things, and I have been told by both Americans and British that we end phrases with a rising inflection like we are asking questions. I am not sure if that's true though

[Goldielocks]

I will back you up, Aussies abbreviate most things, and I have been told by both Americans and British that we end phrases with a rising inflection like we are asking questions. I am not sure if that's true though ?

Fixed the punctuation for you.

[RetiredAt63]

I will back you up, Aussies abbreviate most things, and I have been told by both Americans and British that we end phrases with a rising inflection like we are asking questions. I am not sure if that's true though ?

Fixed the punctuation for you.

You'd feel right at home in Canada, eh?

[kayvent]

I will back you up, Aussies abbreviate most things, and I have been told by both Americans and British that we end phrases with a rising inflection like we are asking questions. I am not sure if that's true though ?

Fixed the punctuation for you.

You'd feel right at home in Canada, eh?

What are you talking aboot?

[Fomerly known as something]

I love that we assume I was talking baby talk, I've never done so in my life.  I also don't end my statements with a question.  Nope I'm not exactly sure how I talked like a girl.

[Step37]

I was talking to my CW today about buying stuff off of kijiji (like Craigslist).

CW: I used to sell a lot of vehicles on there. My wife and I used to trade in our vehicles every couple of years. We don't do that anymore, though, because we're poor.
Me: I see...
Inside Voice Me: aaaaarrrrggghhhh! 1. You are not "poor" (combined household at least 150k I am sure); that is an insult to ACTUAL poor people. 2. You commute in a fancy 2016 pick-up truck, so it's not as though you've stopped this behaviour. 3. YOUR VEHICLE HABITS ARE KEEPING YOU "POOR"!!

Maybe one day I'll forward him an MMM article or mention something... he'd think it was completely off the wall, but maybe it would plant a seed.

[BuffaloStache]

Maybe one day I'll forward him an MMM article or mention something... he'd think it was completely off the wall, but maybe it would plant a seed.

This brings up an interesting point. I think we can all agree that MMM is very solidly on one end of the spectrum when it comes to frugality and personal finance... Does anyone know any "middle of the road" reference material to at least get people to start to think more frugally?

[RyanAtTanagra]

Maybe one day I'll forward him an MMM article or mention something... he'd think it was completely off the wall, but maybe it would plant a seed.

This brings up an interesting point. I think we can all agree that MMM is very solidly on one end of the spectrum when it comes to frugality and personal finance... Does anyone know any "middle of the road" reference material to at least get people to start to think more frugally?

Jacob (ERE) was on one end of the spectrum.  I would say MMM IS middle of the road for frugality.  I think you want something on the other end of the frugality spectrum.  A 'little bit' frugal, for people that are not at all frugal.  I would say any of the mainstream personal finance people.  Ramsey, TSD, GRS, etc.

[boarder42]

Need to get a mainstream FatFIRE blogger going.  that would work for those of us with high incomes in LCOL areas.  i'm a cafeteria mustachian.  we live 20 miles from our jobs lake front with a boat and travel constantly -   but traveling is done with travel hacking.  we dont go out much at all ... we cook all our food at home for the most part grocery shop intelligently.  no cable tv. 22 dollar amonth cell phone bills.  thermostat setting that would kill most people.  we live a lifestyle that costs the avg american over 120k a year and it costs us around 40k plus mortgage.  a FatFIRE blogger would get people to dip their toes in the water and see what it feels like. Maybe they'd be more extreme maybe they'd settle for less.  But really if it could just make them invest and understand indexing they'd be miles ahead of the competition.

[Chris22]

Need to get a mainstream FatFIRE blogger going.  that would work for those of us with high incomes in LCOL areas.  i'm a cafeteria mustachian.  we live 20 miles from our jobs lake front with a boat and travel constantly -   but traveling is done with travel hacking.  we dont go out much at all ... we cook all our food at home for the most part grocery shop intelligently.  no cable tv. 22 dollar amonth cell phone bills.  thermostat setting that would kill most people.  we live a lifestyle that costs the avg american over 120k a year and it costs us around 40k plus mortgage.  a FatFIRE blogger would get people to dip their toes in the water and see what it feels like. Maybe they'd be more extreme maybe they'd settle for less.  But really if it could just make them invest and understand indexing they'd be miles ahead of the competition.

I'm in a similar boat.  My wife and I each make 6 figures at relatively low-stress middle management jobs, and aren't looking to retire particularly early (probably in our 50s; we're mid-30s).  Our friend group has similar (or higher!) incomes, so we feel frugal doing things like keeping $30k cars 8 years instead of leasing $50-60k cars every 2 years, or living in a nice updated $350k house instead of a $500-600k house like a lot of them.  We're not interested in squeezing every last nickel like a true mustachian, because honestly, we don't have to in order to meet our financial goals.  I would be interested in a more 'middle of the road' blog, especially if it focused on things like buying lasting quality to save money in the long run (where does it make sense to do so versus where does it not?  What products are worth a premium and which ones are just more expensive?), or buying self-supporting vacation/rental properties. 

[nobody123]

Need to get a mainstream FatFIRE blogger going.  that would work for those of us with high incomes in LCOL areas.  i'm a cafeteria mustachian.  we live 20 miles from our jobs lake front with a boat and travel constantly -   but traveling is done with travel hacking.  we dont go out much at all ... we cook all our food at home for the most part grocery shop intelligently.  no cable tv. 22 dollar amonth cell phone bills.  thermostat setting that would kill most people.  we live a lifestyle that costs the avg american over 120k a year and it costs us around 40k plus mortgage.  a FatFIRE blogger would get people to dip their toes in the water and see what it feels like. Maybe they'd be more extreme maybe they'd settle for less.  But really if it could just make them invest and understand indexing they'd be miles ahead of the competition.

I'm in a similar boat.  My wife and I each make 6 figures at relatively low-stress middle management jobs, and aren't looking to retire particularly early (probably in our 50s; we're mid-30s).  Our friend group has similar (or higher!) incomes, so we feel frugal doing things like keeping $30k cars 8 years instead of leasing $50-60k cars every 2 years, or living in a nice updated $350k house instead of a $500-600k house like a lot of them.  We're not interested in squeezing every last nickel like a true mustachian, because honestly, we don't have to in order to meet our financial goals.  I would be interested in a more 'middle of the road' blog, especially if it focused on things like buying lasting quality to save money in the long run (where does it make sense to do so versus where does it not?  What products are worth a premium and which ones are just more expensive?), or buying self-supporting vacation/rental properties.

Me too.  I think "cafeteria mustachian" describes me perfectly.  Six figure income, half a million nest egg, in my late 30s, LCOL area, but my peers think I'm a cheap bastard for not living larger than I do.  Plan on working another 20 years to pay for kids college and ensure we can live the lifestyle we want, so not really focused on retiring ASAP.  I have the McMansion, but a 10 year old car and don't take $5K vacations every year.  I like this forum for ideas on where to potentially cut without my wife noticing and for finding good value for luxury items that I refuse to cut out of my life (boarder42 gave me a good wine tip a month or so ago), but there's a lot of "hair on fire" noobie stuff to weed through to find it.

[boarder42]

Need to get a mainstream FatFIRE blogger going.  that would work for those of us with high incomes in LCOL areas.  i'm a cafeteria mustachian.  we live 20 miles from our jobs lake front with a boat and travel constantly -   but traveling is done with travel hacking.  we dont go out much at all ... we cook all our food at home for the most part grocery shop intelligently.  no cable tv. 22 dollar amonth cell phone bills.  thermostat setting that would kill most people.  we live a lifestyle that costs the avg american over 120k a year and it costs us around 40k plus mortgage.  a FatFIRE blogger would get people to dip their toes in the water and see what it feels like. Maybe they'd be more extreme maybe they'd settle for less.  But really if it could just make them invest and understand indexing they'd be miles ahead of the competition.

I'm in a similar boat.  My wife and I each make 6 figures at relatively low-stress middle management jobs, and aren't looking to retire particularly early (probably in our 50s; we're mid-30s).  Our friend group has similar (or higher!) incomes, so we feel frugal doing things like keeping $30k cars 8 years instead of leasing $50-60k cars every 2 years, or living in a nice updated $350k house instead of a $500-600k house like a lot of them.  We're not interested in squeezing every last nickel like a true mustachian, because honestly, we don't have to in order to meet our financial goals.  I would be interested in a more 'middle of the road' blog, especially if it focused on things like buying lasting quality to save money in the long run (where does it make sense to do so versus where does it not?  What products are worth a premium and which ones are just more expensive?), or buying self-supporting vacation/rental properties.

Me too.  I think "cafeteria mustachian" describes me perfectly.  Six figure income, half a million nest egg, in my late 30s, LCOL area, but my peers think I'm a cheap bastard for not living larger than I do.  Plan on working another 20 years to pay for kids college and ensure we can live the lifestyle we want, so not really focused on retiring ASAP.  I have the McMansion, but a 10 year old car and don't take $5K vacations every year.  I like this forum for ideas on where to potentially cut without my wife noticing and for finding good value for luxury items that I refuse to cut out of my life (boarder42 gave me a good wine tip a month or so ago), but there's a lot of "hair on fire" noobie stuff to weed through to find it.

I really would like to start one to show people how to stretch 40k into a 120k lifestyle b/c thats what i do and what we live. 
I think the biggest miss for people trying to live the FatFIRE (and normal FIRE for that matter life) is HOW to buy things.  We have it all b/c of how i purchase things.  for example you want that high quality item you've determined is what you "want" ... setup some slickdeal alerts and just wait for it to come up for sale.  almost everything is a want not a need.  Basically you can apply the MMM grocery shopping principal to just about every thing you buy.  the boat we have i searched for 2-3 years waiting on the deal to upgrade our older less functional boat to.  and bought it 33%+ under market value.  i still have equity in a boat --- wtf boat equity you're crazy --- also our house we live in a lake community and wanted to be lake front.  we waited an searched for 3-4 years waiting for the right house then bought it 20% under market value.  it was more house than we wanted but it had the equity value and building what we wanted would have cost 30-40% more.  you can apply this to any consumer purchase and everything we as humans purchase is almost entirely consumer based.  and we're done working at 37 still ... crazy to think thats how long it takes to build that wealth. 

and that purchasing mind set applies to everything from TVs to cars to home reno's.

[Abooki]

This is an Overseen At Work.

Most people in the state I work in and more specifically the job I work at drive trucks(RAM 5000- and the like- I am not a car person but that is how they look like) and Jeeps(Wranglers- mostly). And also our jobs don't need us to have trucks(pretty standard divide between office and factory workers). But what I find funny is:

• People after or before work sit in their trucks or take naps or take breaks in their car as the car is running.
• I have seen people get new trucks(one lady - two trucks brand new in the last 6 months-she parks in the same spot daily that is how I know)
• Why do so many people have trucks and jeep wranglers when we live in the most likely one of the most flattest place in the USA?!

[eddie]

This is an Overseen At Work.

Most people in the state I work in and more specifically the job I work at drive trucks(RAM 5000- and the like- I am not a car person but that is how they look like) and Jeeps(Wranglers- mostly). And also our jobs don't need us to have trucks(pretty standard divide between office and factory workers). But what I find funny is:

• People after or before work sit in their trucks or take naps or take breaks in their car as the car is running.
• I have seen people get new trucks(one lady - two trucks brand new in the last 6 months-she parks in the same spot daily that is how I know)
• Why do so many people have trucks and jeep wranglers when we live in the most likely one of the most flattest place in the USA?!

I've been wondering the same thing since I was 16.  I think it's because people aspire to think of themselves and rugged, manual labor types when they will realistically off-road in the Jeep  or truly need the hauling capacity of the truck 1-2x per year, if ever. 

I've needed the ability to haul boxes of shoes and clothes for my job for over a decade.  I probably use my vehicle for that purpose 50-75x a year.  I had a Ford Windstar minivan out of college with a dent on every panel and the back seats removed.  I got it with 198k miles and it died at around 245k.  Then I bought a 2001 Honda CRV with 110k miles for $4,500 and I still have it 7 years later.  We have had 12-15 part-time employees at my job over the past 6-7 years.  Mostly high school or college aged.  I can think of 2 that have driven cheaper cars than me.  I don't make a killing, about $70k last year, but I don't want to drive my net worth around.

[zolotiyeruki]

but I don't want to drive my net worth around.

Wow, that about sums it up.  Well put!

[Linea_Norway]

Today in the lunch break I showed my colleagues my lunchbox of which the lock has broken off. Therefore I had put some elastics around it to close it. I told them I was looking for a new box, but was waiting until I found one for a good price. They they laughed and says that those elastics worked fine and there was no reason at all to buy a new lunchbox. I objected that I yesterday had some bread that was so thick that even 5 elastics couldn't keep the box closed. Then they advised me to sit on it first and then close it. :-)
I think I will wait until the start of the new school year (august/september) when lunch boxes are on sale for a very low price.

[Just Joe]

I'm in a similar boat.  My wife and I each make 6 figures at relatively low-stress middle management jobs, and aren't looking to retire particularly early (probably in our 50s; we're mid-30s).  Our friend group has similar (or higher!) incomes, so we feel frugal doing things like keeping $30k cars 8 years instead of leasing $50-60k cars every 2 years, or living in a nice updated $350k house instead of a $500-600k house like a lot of them.  We're not interested in squeezing every last nickel like a true mustachian, because honestly, we don't have to in order to meet our financial goals.  I would be interested in a more 'middle of the road' blog, especially if it focused on things like buying lasting quality to save money in the long run (where does it make sense to do so versus where does it not?  What products are worth a premium and which ones are just more expensive?), or buying self-supporting vacation/rental properties.

Funny seeing numbers like that bandied around as "frugal". Still, you have the income and make the most of it. Good on you.

[Chris22]

I'm in a similar boat.  My wife and I each make 6 figures at relatively low-stress middle management jobs, and aren't looking to retire particularly early (probably in our 50s; we're mid-30s).  Our friend group has similar (or higher!) incomes, so we feel frugal doing things like keeping $30k cars 8 years instead of leasing $50-60k cars every 2 years, or living in a nice updated $350k house instead of a $500-600k house like a lot of them.  We're not interested in squeezing every last nickel like a true mustachian, because honestly, we don't have to in order to meet our financial goals.  I would be interested in a more 'middle of the road' blog, especially if it focused on things like buying lasting quality to save money in the long run (where does it make sense to do so versus where does it not?  What products are worth a premium and which ones are just more expensive?), or buying self-supporting vacation/rental properties.

Funny seeing numbers like that bandied around as "frugal". Still, you have the income and make the most of it. Good on you.

It's all relative. If you looked at the way the "average" couple with a $250-300k HHI spent, and the way we spend, it does feel frugal by comparison.

[gReed Smith]

I'm in a similar boat.  My wife and I each make 6 figures at relatively low-stress middle management jobs, and aren't looking to retire particularly early (probably in our 50s; we're mid-30s).  Our friend group has similar (or higher!) incomes, so we feel frugal doing things like keeping $30k cars 8 years instead of leasing $50-60k cars every 2 years, or living in a nice updated $350k house instead of a $500-600k house like a lot of them.  We're not interested in squeezing every last nickel like a true mustachian, because honestly, we don't have to in order to meet our financial goals.  I would be interested in a more 'middle of the road' blog, especially if it focused on things like buying lasting quality to save money in the long run (where does it make sense to do so versus where does it not?  What products are worth a premium and which ones are just more expensive?), or buying self-supporting vacation/rental properties.

Funny seeing numbers like that bandied around as "frugal". Still, you have the income and make the most of it. Good on you.

If you look at the "What's your number?" thread, you will see that probably the majority of the board (at least based on that sample) is not extremely frugal.  But, we can draw ideas and inspiration from the hardcore/genuine Mustachians.

[mtn]

I'm in a similar boat.  My wife and I each make 6 figures at relatively low-stress middle management jobs, and aren't looking to retire particularly early (probably in our 50s; we're mid-30s).  Our friend group has similar (or higher!) incomes, so we feel frugal doing things like keeping $30k cars 8 years instead of leasing $50-60k cars every 2 years, or living in a nice updated $350k house instead of a $500-600k house like a lot of them.  We're not interested in squeezing every last nickel like a true mustachian, because honestly, we don't have to in order to meet our financial goals.  I would be interested in a more 'middle of the road' blog, especially if it focused on things like buying lasting quality to save money in the long run (where does it make sense to do so versus where does it not?  What products are worth a premium and which ones are just more expensive?), or buying self-supporting vacation/rental properties.

Funny seeing numbers like that bandied around as "frugal". Still, you have the income and make the most of it. Good on you.

If you look at the "What's your number?" thread, you will see that probably the majority of the board (at least based on that sample) is not extremely frugal.  But, we can draw ideas and inspiration from the hardcore/genuine Mustachians.

Everything is a comparison. That is why for some people you can even call a Tesla frugal--compared to a Rolls Royce, for example.

I view Mustachianism as a recipe. Everyone can take some ingredients from it and make it their own. They don't have to follow it to the T.

[plainjane]

I'm in a similar boat.  My wife and I each make 6 figures at relatively low-stress middle management jobs, and aren't looking to retire particularly early (probably in our 50s; we're mid-30s).  Our friend group has similar (or higher!) incomes, so we feel frugal doing things like keeping $30k cars 8 years instead of leasing $50-60k cars every 2 years, or living in a nice updated $350k house instead of a $500-600k house like a lot of them.  We're not interested in squeezing every last nickel like a true mustachian, because honestly, we don't have to in order to meet our financial goals.

Funny seeing numbers like that bandied around as "frugal". Still, you have the income and make the most of it. Good on you.

It also depends where you live.  In some cities - cough, Toronto, cough - a $500-600k house would probably be considered frugal right now.

[Abo345]

Long time lurker who finally decided to create an account to share the anti-mustacian ways of one particular dumbass at work. More examples to come.

CW loves talking about his new SUV he bought used from a dealer.

CW: It was such a great deal, only $25k! It would have cost over $50k had I bought the same car new. Plus it came with an extended warranty for free! You can't find a deal like that on Craigslist buying a car, nobody on Craigslist sells cars with an extended warranty! Ha! Plus I was smart about it, because buying a pickup truck would have been way more than the SUV. Such a great deal!

Me: is that the car you commute (over 20 miles) to work in? What's your MPG?

CW: yep, 15 mpg. But that's good considering how big it is and my old Suburban I drove to work got even less. I need a big car you can't move anything in a small car, if you ever have to move anything it's a pain in your kind of car...blah blah blah

...later that same day:

CW: (talking about the new $2k patio set he just got)
Me: so did you move the patio furniture to your house yourself with your giant car?
CW: NO!! The store we bought it from offers free delivery such a good deal!
Me: do you use your backyard a lot and spend a lot of time out there?
CW: not really, but maybe with the patio set we might. But my wife (who doesn't work) hates looking at this boulder in our backyard. It's going to cost $2500 to get it removed. I mean it blocks a portion of the yard, so once we get that removed then we might spend more time in the backyard.

[Freedom Invested]

CW: It was such a great deal, only $25k! It would have cost over $50k had I bought the same car new.

These are the types that are screwed in a layoff and then have trouble making payments on their 'great deal.'

[The Guru]

Long time lurker who finally decided to create an account to share the anti-mustacian ways of one particular dumbass at work. More examples to come.

CW loves talking about his new SUV he bought used from a dealer.

CW: It was such a great deal, only $25k! It would have cost over $50k had I bought the same car new. Plus it came with an extended warranty for free! You can't find a deal like that on Craigslist buying a car, nobody on Craigslist sells cars with an extended warranty! Ha! Plus I was smart about it, because buying a pickup truck would have been way more than the SUV. Such a great deal!

Me: is that the car you commute (over 20 miles) to work in? What's your MPG?

CW: yep, 15 mpg. But that's good considering how big it is and my old Suburban I drove to work got even less. I need a big car you can't move anything in a small car, if you ever have to move anything it's a pain in your kind of car...blah blah blah

...later that same day:

CW: (talking about the new $2k patio set he just got)
Me: so did you move the patio furniture to your house yourself with your giant car?
CW: NO!! The store we bought it from offers free delivery such a good deal!

I bet the facepalm you gave yourself after hearing that remark must have left a welt.

!
Me: do you use your backyard a lot and spend a lot of time out there?
CW: not really, but maybe with the patio set we might. But my wife (who doesn't work) hates looking at this boulder in our backyard. It's going to cost $2500 to get it removed. I mean it blocks a portion of the yard, so once we get that removed then we might spend more time in the backyard.

Ha ha! What a dumbass! If he had bought the pickup he could have pulled it out himself and saved $2500! Assuming he wasn't towing a Space Shuttle or something. Jeez, doesn't he watch TV?

[nnls]

People at my work yesterday

CW1 - Buying shares is like gambling
CW2 - Worse than gambling because you basically always lose
CW1 - True, but as long as you only do it in $1k  lots its not too bad, you can sometimes find some good ones in small companies, particularly exploration ones
Me - If you buy indexed funds it should go up if you hold on to them
CW1 - But they cost too much

Then they went back to talking about some hot tip a mate of a mate knows about.

In the end they decided to just bet on the footy (this was a $50 bet not a $1000 bet though)

[markbike528CBX]

nnls: Please clarify "just bet on the footy" - I believe this refers to football (US "soccer"), but that's just my parochial thought.

[nnls]

nnls: Please clarify "just bet on the footy" - I believe this refers to football (US "soccer"), but that's just my parochial thought.

Actually refers to Australian Football

Though in Australia footy can be AFL, rugby or soccer. We call American football gridiron

Though the people in my team will bet on anything, one weekend they had a multi on that featured a women's korean soccer game. They try to cap themselves at about $500 a month but often go over

[markbike528CBX]

Dang,   $500 AUD  = $ 369  USD/month,  that's half my house mortgage!

[nnls]

Dang,   $500 AUD  = $ 369  USD/month,  that's half my house mortgage!

Yeah its crazy. I have been out with people from work who have no issue dropping $2k on a bet. This is on top of the $60 a month for lotto and the $60 a month for betting club thing that most of them are in. I am considered strange as I don't really gamble.

The exceptions being I will sometimes put a six pack on a footy game and a will sometimes go in on team lotto if the jackpot is big (it's usually $5 each and I do this maybe 3 times a year)

[BlueHouse]

DOH!   I just learned why they're called Buffalo Wings.    I always thought wtf, who thinks buffalos have wings.

Count me in as a second person who learned something today! I always wondered the same thing, but chalked it up to the same nonsense as someone wanting to eat wings to begin with. Then again, I'm not into skin, gristle, or bone, so I can't relate to someone who wants to eat something that is primarily skin, gristle, and bone.

The beauty of Wings is not in eating the chicken parts.  They are merely a blue-cheese-delivery mechanism. 

[solon]

DOH!   I just learned why they're called Buffalo Wings.    I always thought wtf, who thinks buffalos have wings.

Count me in as a second person who learned something today! I always wondered the same thing, but chalked it up to the same nonsense as someone wanting to eat wings to begin with. Then again, I'm not into skin, gristle, or bone, so I can't relate to someone who wants to eat something that is primarily skin, gristle, and bone.

The beauty of Wings is not in eating the chicken parts.  They are merely a blue-cheese-delivery mechanism.

Right?

But I can't for the life of me figure out why some people eat them with ranch!