Overheard at Work

[Megma]

CW in next cube is showing a visitor pics of a $39K SUV financed for his dainty 90lb wife a few months ago.

CW: "Cause every soccer mom needs a winch, right? lol"
Visitor "Ooh, that's badass".
CW: "We don't do much outdoor stuff"
Me: *rolls eyes so hard, optic nerve damage may ensue*

Don't they know you can't tow with a Prius? or maybe Toyota lied to me! :-)

[jda1984]

I work with a lot of Indians in high tech.  Quite often I'll get emails of someone going home early, or coming in late, and they'll say it like, "Coming in late today afternoon." or "Going to remote office today evening."  I've never heard that before, I've always heard "this afternoon" or "this evening".  Then there is their British influence with anti-clockwise and holiday.

I work with an Indian guy and he uses this construction as well.  I have other Indian friends who don't seem to use it, so I wonder if it is geographical similar to some of the items we have in American English.

[I'm a red panda]

So, just curious, what bothers you about him saying fellas? I can't imagine it's to degrade women?

Most people do not use these words to INTENTIONALLY degrade women; they are rarely meant as slurs. But as a society, defaulting to the male -minimizes- the presence and importance of women.



Did anyone notice facebook changed their default icon that shows if you have friend requests? It used to be a male with a female behind him.  Now, if you report being female, the female is in front.  They also changed the "notification" icon, that is a globe. It shows the continent you live on in front, rather than always North America.

[dsmexpat]

I don't hugely mind the default assumptions. I grew up in a part of England so white there was only one non white kid at school and even he was born in England and of Indian descent. I feel like I never really picked up how to treat non white people differently because we never had any to practice on and being good members of the middle class we knew racism was bad. I pretty much treat everyone as if they were white. Male too, it was an all boys school and my extra curricular activities were mostly things like Boy Scouts and so forth.

So if you say you went to see your doctor I'm thinking he's a white man. But equally if you mention the bin men I'm also thinking white men. And if I meet your doctor and she's a black, gay woman I'm still going to treat her with all the respect I'd give a white man because I never got the hang of how exactly you modify your behaviour to adjust to black, gay women. Hell, it's basically the treat others as you wish to be treated. I'm a white man, I like to be treated like a white man, I'll treat you like a white man.

Incidentally it becomes problematic when you start mixing with girls a lot more at university. I am oblivious to subtext and pretty much anything that didn't routinely come up with a bunch of teenage boys.

[maco]

As an Indian person, born in Canada, but lived in Atlanta for 20+ years I can't help but use y'all and find this comment more offensive than a lot of the recent race discussions from the Facebook thread.

Don't worry, I'm not mad over it just think it's interesting how American it is to throw around labels and classify people....

I grew up with "you guys" and TBH, after years of migrating around and using/hearing both, I think "y'all" is more functional. Also find it amusing that the more liberal/PC regions prefer the inherently sexist version of the second-person plural... ahaha xD

I run in feminist circles, and "y'all" and "folks" have become standard parts of the vocabulary in those circles for their gender neutrality.

I have always used 'guys' as a gender neutral phrase, but lately a lot of women have subtly mentioned they would like to be included as well. When dude says "C'mon guys, lets get started!"  doesn't it generally mean everyone within earshot?

Apparently not. I need to find a new word.

I'd recommend 'folks'.  "C'mon folks, let's get started."   Gets the same meaning across and no gender whatsoever.

I think my little sister would also suggest "C'mon peeps!" (peeps being short for people)

[WerKater]

So, just curious, what bothers you about him saying fellas? I can't imagine it's to degrade women?

Most people do not use these words to INTENTIONALLY degrade women; they are rarely meant as slurs. But as a society, defaulting to the male -minimizes- the presence and importance of women.



Did anyone notice facebook changed their default icon that shows if you have friend requests? It used to be a male with a female behind him.  Now, if you report being female, the female is in front.  They also changed the "notification" icon, that is a globe. It shows the continent you live on in front, rather than always North America.

In my case the female is in front, even though I am male (and male on Facebook, too). And no, I had not noticed any of this.
In fact, I had never even noticed until now that:
- There is one male and female in that one icon. I always just thought that there is a generic number of generic people.
- The round-thingy icon is a globe.

I don't hugely mind the default assumptions. I grew up in a part of England so white there was only one non white kid at school and even he was born in England and of Indian descent. I feel like I never really picked up how to treat non white people differently because we never had any to practice on and being good members of the middle class we knew racism was bad. I pretty much treat everyone as if they were white. Male too, it was an all boys school and my extra curricular activities were mostly things like Boy Scouts and so forth.

So if you say you went to see your doctor I'm thinking he's a white man. But equally if you mention the bin men I'm also thinking white men. And if I meet your doctor and she's a black, gay woman I'm still going to treat her with all the respect I'd give a white man because I never got the hang of how exactly you modify your behaviour to adjust to black, gay women.

Incidentally it becomes problematic when you start mixing with girls a lot more at university. I am oblivious to subtext.

Wow. I think I am you ;-)
I am subtext-impaired, too. And I am an extreme individualist and quite rational. My girlfriend, on the other hand, is relatively sensitive about issues of racism and nationalism and such. After a while of trying to sensitize me about these issues (that I do understand to exist but have a hard time to understand), she gave up. And she told me that she now understood that these things are hard to understand for me because it would never even occur to me that someone's skin color or gender might matter to a given question unless there is an actual rational connection (like women have a harder time to use a urinal than men). And that, as a result, I would never even get the idea that someone might base something he says or does on racism, beause that whole concept is basically beyond me ;)

[HairyUpperLip]

My boss sometimes says, "Ok fellas...blahblah," to address a majority female group. I'm not that sensitive, but that one drives me nuts. One time I answered him (cheerily), "Ok gal!" and the fella stuff tapered off a bit.

And I remember thinking as a kid - wtf, what a cry baby thing to cry about. Like the fuck if I was trying to imply anything negative.

So, just curious, what bothers you about him saying fellas? I can't imagine it's to degrade women?

I loathe him so anything he says annoys me. I'm usually cool with whatever, but this subject reminds me of a guy who heard me call a close girlfriend, "Bitch" in an ironic and playful way. It was a term of endearment between two close women. He complained, " How come you can use that word and it's ok?" And we just laughed. There's a Chris Rock bit, and I'm sure lots of others comedians have taken on the topic, on in-group use of terms, like the n-word. But, true dat, if I liked and respected my boss, I'm sure I would barely notice it. On the other hand, what is so difficult in a non-social, work environment about choosing, e.g., everyone, everybody, all, y'all, my dear subordinates, team, teammates, [plural of our shared job title], ladies and gents, people, youse...?

ETA: why do I post this shit? Ugh. I swore I would stay out of this stuff having watched threads derail over it many times here, and now I'm doing it.

ETA 2: I said Ni!

lol - totally fair. You just don't like the guy so whatever he says irks you.

[HairyUpperLip]

So, just curious, what bothers you about him saying fellas? I can't imagine it's to degrade women?

Most people do not use these words to INTENTIONALLY degrade women; they are rarely meant as slurs. But as a society, defaulting to the male -minimizes- the presence and importance of women.

I never even thought of it like that. I just thought it's been human nature to typically default to the more masculine word when available.

I've always been raised to think of women as equals (in life, family, and religion even) so I never would think twice about it personally. I guess actually having respect for people makes it hard to detect when pseudo-respect needs to be used.

[I'm a red panda]

I never even thought of it like that. I just thought it's been human nature to typically default to the more masculine word when available.

I don't think default to male is 'human nature' it is male driven society.  If somehow society had evolved as female driven, the default would probably have been the other way around.

So if you say you went to see your doctor I'm thinking he's a white man. But equally if you mention the bin men I'm also thinking white men. And if I meet your doctor and she's a black, gay woman I'm still going to treat her with all the respect I'd give a white man because I never got the hang of how exactly you modify your behaviour to adjust to black, gay women.

Yeah- and most people would; but then there are those who don't.  I remember a big issue coming up when The Hunger Games came out. A favorite character, Rue, was portrayed by a black actress- and it caused an OUTCRY. People were livid.  Except the book clearly describes her as black, but only briefly. The more memorable part of the book was that she reminded Katniss of her little sister Prim, who was white- so most people probably formed an image of Rue in their head as white.  Reasonable people probably thought "hmm... I missed that" but others went crazy on twitter.

I will honestly say that, as a white female- I don't really face many issues with discrimination. It isn't huge to me to be called "you guys"; but I get momentarily annoyed whenever I'm assumed to be a man here, because a person in a finance forum clearly must be male, right? I think racism is more prevalent than sexism in our society; so in general I don't say much; but I think softly educating people that small things make a difference is important.  If you have only ever been part of the minority, it can be difficult to see the privilege given to you as being the default.

In my case the female is in front, even though I am male (and male on Facebook, too).

Oh weird. Maybe they just moved the female in front, it used to be male in front.  My husband told me the male was still in front on his, but he possibly- like you- never noticed they were gendered.

[Ghzbani]

come on man

Thanks.  (It bothered me too.

:)

Ahhhh....

You had a little typo there, forgot the colon before your smiley.  Don't worry, I fixed it for you! :)

Epic! You are my hero.

[Papa Mustache]

My husband does not seem to have the brain for thinking about money, so I just handle that entire side of our marriage. About eight months ago, I just informed him one day we now had enough money to buy an apartment and I had booked some showings, so could he please be available next Saturday? He's cheap and not-acquisitive and generally agrees we should have lots of savings, so it works out, but I'm reasonably certain he couldn't even estimate accurately his take-home pay, our net worth, the mortgage payment, or other basic info.

What's the difference between an apartment and a condo? In my neck of the woods people rent apartments and buy condos. I have a house so this is only a passing concern but I'm still curious about it. ;)

[ingrownstudentloans]

What's the difference between an apartment and a condo? In my neck of the woods people rent apartments and buy condos. I have a house so this is only a passing concern but I'm still curious about it. ;)

Semantics.  I think you are generally right that you can buy a condo but you can also rent a condo from the individual condo owner.  Apartments, in my mind, are in apartment buildings in which you cannot buy a unit as an individual and the whole building is owned by the apartment building owners. 

I rent a condo in a building that you can buy units in.  I rent directly from the woman that owns the condo unit.

[Papa Mustache]

I mentioned this thread to my 18 yr old daughter... apparently the word to use is 'Bro' :)

Bro works for groups that include the ladies??? Am confused... ;)

I want to hear someone using "y'all" with a Brit or New York accent...

[Joggernot]

What's the difference between an apartment and a condo? In my neck of the woods people rent apartments and buy condos. I have a house so this is only a passing concern but I'm still curious about it. ;)

Semantics.  I think you are generally right that you can buy a condo but you can also rent a condo from the individual condo owner.  Apartments, in my mind, are in apartment buildings in which you cannot buy a unit as an individual and the whole building is owned by the apartment building owners. 

I rent a condo in a building that you can buy units in.  I rent directly from the woman that owns the condo unit.

I own a condo that I rent out, either short term or long term.  Right now I have a renter through August, and then he goes back to his main office.  Works for both of us.

[Papa Mustache]

Don't they know you can't tow with a Prius? or maybe Toyota lied to me! :-)

In the UK the Prius is rated for towing 3500 pounds...

(My CR-V gets an extra 500 lbs in the UK rating - same vehicle otherwise. They also rate the vehicle capable of towing more with trailer brakes. No mention of that in the USA b/c we have lawyers here and drivers who tow but don't know what they are doing...)

(I might be kidding about the Prius)

[zephyr911]

What's the difference between an apartment and a condo? In my neck of the woods people rent apartments and buy condos. I have a house so this is only a passing concern but I'm still curious about it. ;)

Semantics.  I think you are generally right that you can buy a condo but you can also rent a condo from the individual condo owner.  Apartments, in my mind, are in apartment buildings in which you cannot buy a unit as an individual and the whole building is owned by the apartment building owners. 

I rent a condo in a building that you can buy units in.  I rent directly from the woman that owns the condo unit.

I knew I'd be glad I went to real estate school eventually!

Condominium developments are defined by each individual state, but they have several characteristics in common. Each residence is legally a separate piece of real property, and each is connected to a share of the land underneath the building (often known as an "air lot", since it's not an actual physical area of the earth), and also comes with shared ownership of the common areas (hallways, roof, rec areas), which are overseen and maintained by a condo association using funds collected from property owners. Whether they are lived in by the owner or rented out is immaterial. An apartment building normally sits on one lot, and the units aren't legally identified as separate pieces of property, because one owner keeps them all and manages them collectively, and all costs are paid out of rents received.

Theoretically, a builder could keep some of the units in a condo development as rentals, but if they kept them all, there'd be no point making it a condo development because of the legal and administrative costs of creating all the units.

Yay!

[zephyr911]

This is a bit of a mess when it comes to things like bank financing and there are a lot more rules attached to owning a co-op, so they are cheaper than condos in NYC.

That and you have to get everything approved by the other weirdos who live in the co-op, right?

[Megma]

What's the difference between an apartment and a condo? In my neck of the woods people rent apartments and buy condos. I have a house so this is only a passing concern but I'm still curious about it. ;)

Semantics.  I think you are generally right that you can buy a condo but you can also rent a condo from the individual condo owner.  Apartments, in my mind, are in apartment buildings in which you cannot buy a unit as an individual and the whole building is owned by the apartment building owners. 

I rent a condo in a building that you can buy units in.  I rent directly from the woman that owns the condo unit.

I knew I'd be glad I went to real estate school eventually!

Condominium developments are defined by each individual state, but they have several characteristics in common. Each residence is legally a separate piece of real property, and each is connected to a share of the land underneath the building (often known as an "air lot", since it's not an actual physical area of the earth), and also comes with shared ownership of the common areas (hallways, roof, rec areas), which are overseen and maintained by a condo association using funds collected from property owners. Whether they are lived in by the owner or rented out is immaterial. An apartment building normally sits on one lot, and the units aren't legally identified as separate pieces of property, because one owner keeps them all and manages them collectively, and all costs are paid out of rents received.

Theoretically, a builder could keep some of the units in a condo development as rentals, but if they kept them all, there'd be no point making it a condo development because of the legal and administrative costs of creating all the units.

Yay!

Similarly, from my understanding having owned both, a townhouse is structured differently than a condo in that you actually own the land under your unit. However, you also have townhouse style condos (I live in one😃) where the homes are not stacked like apartments but the ownership structure is like that of a condo in that you own shares in the association rather than the land itself.

Maybe others know more?


Wait, Joe Average, you were really told that a Prius can tow or this was a joke? When I moved a few years back I tried to get a hitch on my Prius and Toyota was like "oh hell no"... Maybe it just couldn't tow enough weight to be worth it? But I was planning to tow something smaller than a camper!

[Silverado]

So, just curious, what bothers you about him saying fellas? I can't imagine it's to degrade women?

Most people do not use these words to INTENTIONALLY degrade women; they are rarely meant as slurs. But as a society, defaulting to the male -minimizes- the presence and importance of women.

Pure BS. Suck it up, grow a thicker skin, and worry about something worthwhile.

Bad mood on a Saturday here, sorry y'all.

[midweststache]

So, just curious, what bothers you about him saying fellas? I can't imagine it's to degrade women?

Most people do not use these words to INTENTIONALLY degrade women; they are rarely meant as slurs. But as a society, defaulting to the male -minimizes- the presence and importance of women.

Pure BS. Suck it up, grow a thicker skin, and worry about something worthwhile.

Bad mood on a Saturday here, sorry y'all.

Pure BS. Representation matters. Feeling included in a work environment and not maligned matters. Some people would let "guys" slide, as it's become fairly gender neutral in use; fellas is clearly male leaning. Why not the term "everyone"? It's an easy change to make, and goes a long way in creating a more equitable environment.

Perhaps unrelated, but it popped in my head when I saw this thread: https://thenib.com/lighten-up-4f7f96ca8a7e

[Silverado]

So, just curious, what bothers you about him saying fellas? I can't imagine it's to degrade women?

Most people do not use these words to INTENTIONALLY degrade women; they are rarely meant as slurs. But as a society, defaulting to the male -minimizes- the presence and importance of women.

Pure BS. Suck it up, grow a thicker skin, and worry about something worthwhile.

Bad mood on a Saturday here, sorry y'all.

Pure BS. Representation matters. Feeling included in a work environment and not maligned matters. Some people would let "guys" slide, as it's become fairly gender neutral in use; fellas is clearly male leaning. Why not the term "everyone"? It's an easy change to make, and goes a long way in creating a more equitable environment.

Perhaps unrelated, but it popped in my head when I saw this thread: https://thenib.com/lighten-up-4f7f96ca8a7e

Ok you nudged me. Make it simple, from this point forward, guys, fellas, et. al. identically mean "everyone". That way, everyone needs to change a little bit. Words change and evolve all the time.

Or, just go with 'allgender' as a fully neww term. And link everything to mean that.

[Travis]

I recently stayed at a coworker's house just before I moved which made me privy to some of their domestic concerns. They have a household income of around $200-$220k.  25% of that is tax free.  They just moved into that house and are paying about $1800/month.  They are cash poor.  The wife made the comment that she gets nervous at the end of the month making sure the checking account stays positive while the husband spent a Saturday studying houses in their neighborhood because all of their friends were getting into real estate and he thought they should too.  I saw two laptops, a desktop, and two tablets in the house, and a garage full of outdoors gear and a very nice 1957 Chevy.  They shop entirely organic and the husband loves to grill.  They also have a taste for cigars and fine wines.  We were talking shop and the conversation drifted to finances and the wife said they invest; however, her statement on the subject was "we send our money to a broker every month and as long as it [the investment] doesn't lose money we're happy."  I'm grateful they let me have their couch for a few days since that saved me from a hotel stay, but I really hope they get a handle on their spending.  They're going to really hurt if they try their hand at real estate with their level of financial knowledge.

[11ducks]

As an Indian person, born in Canada, but lived in Atlanta for 20+ years I can't help but use y'all and find this comment more offensive than a lot of the recent race discussions from the Facebook thread.

Don't worry, I'm not mad over it just think it's interesting how American it is to throw around labels and classify people....

I grew up with "you guys" and TBH, after years of migrating around and using/hearing both, I think "y'all" is more functional. Also find it amusing that the more liberal/PC regions prefer the inherently sexist version of the second-person plural... ahaha xD

I run in feminist circles, and "y'all" and "folks" have become standard parts of the vocabulary in those circles for their gender neutrality.

I have always used 'guys' as a gender neutral phrase, but lately a lot of women have subtly mentioned they would like to be included as well. When dude says "C'mon guys, lets get started!"  doesn't it generally mean everyone within earshot?

Apparently not. I need to find a new word.

I'd recommend 'folks'.  "C'mon folks, let's get started."   Gets the same meaning across and no gender whatsoever.

I mentioned this thread to my 18 yr old daughter... apparently the word to use is 'Bro' :)

I just graduated with a degree in teaching and is my ed classes we discussed at length to NEVER use the term "guys" when addressing mixed gender groups. We were encouraged to use y'all, folks, ladies&gentlemen, etc. The habit has been ingrained in me, and, even though I am not in a teaching career, I use y'all enough that people sometimes ask where I grew up in the South.

I teach and tend to call my class 'weirdos', 'freaks', 'whackjobs' etc. Example - "alright weirdos, time to check homework". Perfectly PC and eminently appropriate. Sometimes 'beautiful people', if they are being particularly charming. As long as everyone is offended equally (and you aren't serious about it) it tends to work out well.

[runningthroughFIRE]

How many assholes are on this ship?

I knew it.  I'm surrounded by assholes.

Keep firing, assholes!

[shelivesthedream]

It is already simple, just use "everyone" to mean everyone - no need to deal with the various connotations of the other terms you suggest.

Even simpler!

Uh, but, like, "everyONE" might, like, alienate Siamese twins. </joke> Maybe it's time to drop this foam. It's not like anybody is changing anybody else's mind.

[cavewoman]

At my job I determine eligibility for TANF (cash aid)  SNAP (foodstamps) and Medicaid.

50% of the time _{(statistic made up and in no way accurate)}  if they own a vehicle, it is way nicer and newer than mine.

In my front brain, I know that I shouldn't get annoyed by this.  But sometimes..... I just want to slip out a little facepunch.

[Taran Wanderer]

We have a woman at work who is married, mid fifties, no kids, she and her husband both work, and she says they have to work because they don't have enough to retire.  She talks about their 3500sf house, 3000sf shop with car lift, new cars, and their wonderful doggies that require so much care. Her husband wants to retire, but they can't unless they downsize, and they don't (or she doesn't?) want to downsize. All I can think is WTF?

And this woman is our corporate treasurer.

[Silverado]

It is already simple, just use "everyone" to mean everyone - no need to deal with the various connotations of the other terms you suggest.

Even simpler!

Uh, but, like, "everyONE" might, like, alienate Siamese twins. </joke> Maybe it's time to drop this foam. It's not like anybody is changing anybody else's mind.

Well, i'm going to give the 'folks' thing a go. Can't say it will stick, but its worth a try.

Why? The individuals who have the self esteem issue should change. This continued wussification saddens me. Oh well.

On another topic, are people watching the bogleheads discussion on beater driving? Some of that is funny.

[zolotiyeruki]

On another topic, are people watching the bogleheads discussion on beater driving? Some of that is funny.

Link please?

[I'm a red panda]

Why? The individuals who have the self esteem issue should change. This continued wussification saddens me. Oh well.

What the hell does not accepting lack of representation have to do with low self esteem?  The fact that some people are willing to speak out about this rather than just accept the male dominated world speaks to me of HIGHER self esteem. 

Do you think all minorities should just 'grow a thicker skin' or just women?

[SweetLife]

Ho-hum ... I am a women and prefer not to worry about "everyone's/you all's/people's/guys/gents/insert appropriate term here" reasons for saying  "everyone's/you all's/people's/guys/gents/insert appropriate term here" ... in fact, I try not to listen to much of what is said at work that does not deal directly with what I do ... am toooo busy counting my little soldiers .... one soldier, two soldier, three soldier ... go to work for me!!! :)

[Shamantha]

Do you think all minorities should just 'grow a thicker skin' or just women?

A minority? Women??? :-)

I address people in my team as guys whether they are men or women, and people are fine with that, I am as well, there are way more serious issues than colloqial terms that imply gender in how you address a group. What does bother me at work is people refusing to shake my hand because I am a woman. And no amount of creating a thicker skin or embracing cultural diversity can make me feel OK about this.

[mm1970]

Do you think all minorities should just 'grow a thicker skin' or just women?

A minority? Women??? :-)

I address people in my team as guys whether they are men or women, and people are fine with that, I am as well, there are way more serious issues than colloqial terms that imply gender in how you address a group. What does bother me at work is people refusing to shake my hand because I am a woman. And no amount of creating a thicker skin or embracing cultural diversity can make me feel OK about this.

Yes.  In my engineering company, we have two buildings.  I officially have all four stalls in my building to myself now, as the only woman in my building. 

The other building has more women.  The bulk of them not engineering.

In my PTA board meetings, the one dude is the minority.
At work, not so much.

[zephyr911]

Mmm, such sweet delicious foam!

[Pooperman]

Mmm, such sweet delicious foam!

Only 197 pages of it!

[zephyr911]

What in the fuck is that?

[Pooperman]

What in the fuck is that?

A chemical reaction that creates foam very quickly--one that should not have been put into a soda bottle. You can find demonstrations of it in tall cylinders where the foam still shoots out, but not 30ft+ (if not stopped by the ceiling).

Edit: Here's another video (less explosive, and more explanatory): https://youtu.be/Ejyy5ATouw8. It's a reaction between Sodium Iodide and Hydrogen Peroxide where the released oxygen is captured by dish soap.

[zephyr911]

A chemical reaction that creates foam very quickly--one that should not have been put into a soda bottle. You can find demonstrations of it in tall cylinders where the foam still shoots out, but not 30ft+ (if not stopped by the ceiling).

Who says they shouldn't have done that? I, for one, celebrate their choice to do so! ;)

[Pooperman]

A chemical reaction that creates foam very quickly--one that should not have been put into a soda bottle. You can find demonstrations of it in tall cylinders where the foam still shoots out, but not 30ft+ (if not stopped by the ceiling).

Who says they shouldn't have done that? I, for one, celebrate their choice to do so! ;)

You replied a bit quickly, but I put a link for you in the post above yours and an explanation of what is going on. But yeah, foam.

[zephyr911]

You replied a bit quickly, but I put a link for you in the post above yours and an explanation of what is going on. But yeah, foam.

That was fun!

BACK ON TOPIC:
Group of CW's just came in from the cafe'. I appear to have been disinvited from the breakfast club, which I used to go along with daily but have been participating in less and less, or tagging along without buying anything. Was it something I said?
Oh well, back to using up my instant oatmeal packets so I can graduate to bulk oats and push my FIRE date up by a week. MMM FTW ;)

[shotgunwilly]

So, just curious, what bothers you about him saying fellas? I can't imagine it's to degrade women?

Most people do not use these words to INTENTIONALLY degrade women; they are rarely meant as slurs. But as a society, defaulting to the male -minimizes- the presence and importance of women.

Pure BS. Suck it up, grow a thicker skin, and worry about something worthwhile.

Bad mood on a Saturday here, sorry y'all.

Pure BS. Representation matters. Feeling included in a work environment and not maligned matters. Some people would let "guys" slide, as it's become fairly gender neutral in use; fellas is clearly male leaning. Why not the term "everyone"? It's an easy change to make, and goes a long way in creating a more equitable environment.

Perhaps unrelated, but it popped in my head when I saw this thread: https://thenib.com/lighten-up-4f7f96ca8a7e

Ok you nudged me. Make it simple, from this point forward, guys, fellas, et. al. identically mean "everyone". That way, everyone needs to change a little bit. Words change and evolve all the time.

Or, just go with 'allgender' as a fully neww term. And link everything to mean that.

It is already simple, just use "everyone" to mean everyone - no need to deal with the various connotations of the other terms you suggest.

Even simpler!

MOD NOTE: SEE FORUMS RULES WHEN YOUR TEMPORARY BAN IS OVER

[grantmeaname]

Not gender neutral, but not just slang for a vagina either.

But I'm sure your willy just made an honest mistake.

[zephyr911]

Not gender neutral, but not just slang for a vagina either.

But I'm sure your willy just made an honest mistake.

What a pusillanimous dick.

[shotgunwilly]

Not gender neutral, but not just slang for a vagina either.

But I'm sure your willy just made an honest mistake.

What a pusillanimous dick.

Wankers. :D

[gimp]

I think from now on, I will refer to groups of people as "males" instead. Just to really piss off anyone who gets annoyed by gendered pronouns. "Hey you males, how's it going?"

[retireatbirth]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

[mustachepungoeshere]

Colleague is on the phone - during work hours - trying to renegotiate his car lease, to lower the payments to something he can afford.

He's 59, he and his wife are DINKs.

>.<

[nobodyspecial]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

Was sitting in a meeting this morning working out that I can retire in 3years on $24K pa.
I was so bored that I was doing the multiplication long hand while pretending to take notes.

[Cheddar Stacker]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

So did you pay them to find out their magical formula?

[forummm]

Got an email at work. Aon Hewitt says I'm on track to retire in 32 years! I can pay them for the details on how they figured that out. The 32 years is just when I turn 65.

So did you pay them to find out their magical formula?

The magic formula is: retireatbirth(-$$$) -> Aon Hewitt(+$$$)