Overheard at Work

[Beard N Bones]

I've been just itchin' to make a post on this thread.  \
As a small business owner, we have had our fair share of "interesting" characters as employees.  But one employee we had defined  what Anti-Mustachian/Consumerism is all about.  Henceforth she will be named Mrs. Anti-Mustachian (MAM).  Some background info on her and her family:
- They "bought" (ie. financed) a brand new gas guzzling SUV.   List price is 38,000 +.  They already had 2 vehicles (old beater van, couple years old mid-sized car), one of which they are still making payments on.  We live in a small Canadian town where it takes less than 30 min to walk across town.  (This is a story I will share at some other time, as it is so good it deserves its own separate post.)
- They make a decent wage.  He works a trade (est $55/hr full time) and she worked as a part time receptionist ($15/hr). 
- They bought a very inexpensive house where an extended family member supplied them with the down payment.  House should have been paid off a long time ago - but they are still paying mortgage payments.
- Credit cards are always carrying a balance.
- I'm sure they have no budget but she told me her husband allows her $100/day miscellaneous Blow It money.
- They don't have any retirement savings, but are hoping the husbands pension is good enough.
- Being quite young (early 30s), she has many health issues that can be mainly contributed to: 1. Poor sleep. 2. Poor diet.  3. No exercise. 4. Smoking cigarettes.
- They have 3 kids and a large dog.
- They are "collectors" of board games and electronic gaming systems - she has hoarding tendencies.
- She would brag to us, her employers, that she would be able to wake up 5 minutes before work started and be there on time.  (Yeah, my teeth would grind and steam would exit my ears when she would say this.)
-  When she gets upset with her husband, part of her retaliation is to spend a large amount of money on purchases he wouldn't be happy with (shopping trips in the neighbouring city, expensive clothes, books, etc etc.)  Unfortunately for her husband, she sees him as the problem for everything. 
Now that you've got some background info, here it is...

It was not long ago that MAM booked a holiday to Las Vegas.  She wanted to go on a holiday with her family (mom, aunt, sisters).  Because saving money was not one of her strengths, she went to the closest casino (130km away) on a weekend to try to win herself some holiday money.  On arriving to work Monday morning she was very excited to share that she had won enough money playing Black Jack that her flights and accommodation in Vegas could now be paid for in advance.  She told me she gave that money to her mom so that she would not spend it on anything before her trip.  (You know you have a problem with money when...)  She went on to say that it is impossible to lose money playing Black Jack.   Yep, she really believes this.
Fast forward to the Monday following her trip to Vegas...
It was quite apparent she wasn't quite so excited about life.  She had just enough energy to shuffle her feet down the hall.  She said to those that entered our office that "my brain just isn't working today" and laughed about it.  It was apparent she was exhausted.  When time permitted, I asked her how the holiday was.  She stated that "she met soooo many nice people and made some really good friends."  She went on to say that one night in the casino, she was in need of some more money.  She had maxed out her credit cards and had no available cash.  So she called her credit card company, asking for a credit limit increase.  She was told by the cc company that she wasn't eligible to have her credit card limit increased because she had already increased her credit card limit within the last three days.  She told me she was upset with the credit card company and she gave Customer Service an ear full.

I once again inquired about her views on the profitability on Black Jack.  Contrary to that experience, she still felt it is a sure thing.  "You can't lose playing that game."
Queue my forehead hitting the wall...  more to come on MAM.

[Playing with Fire UK]

Wait, wait, wait $100 per day, per DAY?!?

Please tell me 'Blow It' money is what my dirty mind is thinking as a charge for services rendered in the bedroom.

And, just to be clear, MAM thinks that Blackjack is set up to give people money. Is it impolite to ask why she is still working? Looking forward to future tales.

[MgoSam]

^ Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Even if it was only for the work week, that would mean $25k annually, or roughly half her husbands's assumed pre-tax salary.

[dandarc]

And, just to be clear, MAM thinks that Blackjack is set up to give people money. Is it impolite to ask why she is still working? Looking forward to future tales.

Exactly - if you actually believe this, surely you can do way better at the tables than $15 / hour, right?

[MrMoogle]

Wait, wait, wait $100 per day, per DAY?!?

Please tell me 'Blow It' money is what my dirty mind is thinking as a charge for services rendered in the bedroom.

And, just to be clear, MAM thinks that Blackjack is set up to give people money. Is it impolite to ask why she is still working? Looking forward to future tales.

Well, if you are good at counting cards, Blackjack isn't so bad.  Maybe she doesn't do it often, so she doesn't get caught?

[MgoSam]

And, just to be clear, MAM thinks that Blackjack is set up to give people money. Is it impolite to ask why she is still working? Looking forward to future tales.

Exactly - if you actually believe this, surely you can do way better at the tables than $15 / hour, right?

Man this brings me back to my first real taste of gambling. Thankfully I lost my shirt because I haven't wanted to risk a penny at a casino since. Due to work I usually spend a few weeks a year in Vegas, but now stay off-strip at a hotel that only has slots. Rate is far lower, has a lot so I'll rent a car and pick up groceries and other things and enjoy my stay in Vegas. I rarely venture to the strip anymore, and if I do it's nearly always to take out a customer.

[Beard N Bones]

Wait, wait, wait $100 per day, per DAY?!?

Please tell me 'Blow It' money is what my dirty mind is thinking as a charge for services rendered in the bedroom.

And, just to be clear, MAM thinks that Blackjack is set up to give people money. Is it impolite to ask why she is still working? Looking forward to future tales.

Yes, you read that correctly Playing With Fire, $100 Canadian Dollars per day.  To do the simple math for you, that's $36,500/year.  Absolutely mind blowing.  Hard to wrap my head around those numbers (considering my wife and I "allow" $100 for her and $30 for myself per month for that type of spending.)
And no, Blow It money has nothing to do with sexual favors in this case (as far as I know.)
And no, I don't think it impolite to ask "why she is still working?"  I have asked the same questions many times before.  Thankfully she doesn't work for us any more.
And no MrMoogle, she is not a card counter.  I am confident in that.

[dragoncar]

Wait, wait, wait $100 per day, per DAY?!?

Please tell me 'Blow It' money is what my dirty mind is thinking as a charge for services rendered in the bedroom.

And, just to be clear, MAM thinks that Blackjack is set up to give people money. Is it impolite to ask why she is still working? Looking forward to future tales.

Yes, you read that correctly Playing With Fire, $100 Canadian Dollars per day.  To do the simple math for you, that's $36,500/year.  Absolutely mind blowing.  Hard to wrap my head around those numbers (considering my wife and I "allow" $100 for her and $30 for myself per month for that type of spending.)
And no, Blow It money has nothing to do with sexual favors in this case (as far as I know.)
And no, I don't think it impolite to ask "why she is still working?"  I have asked the same questions many times before.  Thankfully she doesn't work for us any more.
And no MrMoogle, she is not a card counter.  I am confident in that.

It kinda sounds like the husband is just agreeing to cover all the family expenses and his wife is free to spend her income however she wants.  She probably makes around $100/day given the above numbers (of course pre tax).  This arrangement is not entirely unconventional

[Playing with Fire UK]

It kinda sounds like the husband is just agreeing to cover all the family expenses and his wife is free to spend her income however she wants.  She probably makes around $100/day given the above numbers (of course pre tax).  This arrangement is not entirely unconventional

Regardless of convention, I hope we can agree that 36,500 CAD per year for fun money is bat-shit crazy?

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Wait, wait, wait $100 per day, per DAY?!?

Please tell me 'Blow It' money is what my dirty mind is thinking as a charge for services rendered in the bedroom.

And, just to be clear, MAM thinks that Blackjack is set up to give people money. Is it impolite to ask why she is still working? Looking forward to future tales.

Yes, you read that correctly Playing With Fire, $100 Canadian Dollars per day.  To do the simple math for you, that's $36,500/year.  Absolutely mind blowing.  Hard to wrap my head around those numbers (considering my wife and I "allow" $100 for her and $30 for myself per month for that type of spending.)
And no, Blow It money has nothing to do with sexual favors in this case (as far as I know.)
And no, I don't think it impolite to ask "why she is still working?"  I have asked the same questions many times before.  Thankfully she doesn't work for us any more.
And no MrMoogle, she is not a card counter.  I am confident in that.

It kinda sounds like the husband is just agreeing to cover all the family expenses and his wife is free to spend her income however she wants.  She probably makes around $100/day given the above numbers (of course pre tax).  This arrangement is not entirely unconventional

Neither, I'm told, is the charge for services between married people.

[ender]

It kinda sounds like the husband is just agreeing to cover all the family expenses and his wife is free to spend her income however she wants.  She probably makes around $100/day given the above numbers (of course pre tax).  This arrangement is not entirely unconventional

Regardless of convention, I hope we can agree that 36,500 CAD per year for fun money is bat-shit crazy?

Oh I don't know, it seems reasonable. You could buy brand new cars and light them on fire every year for that amount too.

Err, wait. I guess not :P

[Beard N Bones]

Another Chapter in the Story of Mrs. Anti-Mustachian (MAM)...

It was previously mentioned that MAM and her husband "bought" (read: financed) a new gas guzzling SUV recently.  Unfortunately there is so much more to the story than meets the eye with this one.  You read through the pages and threads of the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and you will see countless examples of the poor choices people make regarding vehicle purchases.  I've only read through 40 some odd pages through this Overhead at Work thread, but I am confident this is the worst one of its kind in all that has been posted thus far.  MAM has taken things to a whole different level.  Here is what MAM has done... and what she plans to do.

As stated earlier, MAM and her husband spent $38,000 to purchase a gas guzzling, bed pan and catheter-included, SUV.  MAM told me her husband was more hesitant in making large purchases than herself.  (yep, another way she talks down on her husband.  Because, of course, how she makes purchases is the right way to do it.  Queue Eye Roll.)  This time around, it was her trying to convince her husband that a new vehicle was necessary.  She had already been to the dealership and found two vehicles that seemed to tickle her fancy.  No question she would have purchased the one she wanted without her husband there if she could.  But alas, he was a necessary part of the process as someone that would sign papers for the financing needed for the purchase.  She expressed frustration: "In the past, they went to the dealership one day, signed the appropriate paperwork, and drove away with the vehicle they wanted that same day.  Why is he dragging his feet in buying a vehicle this time?!  You know we need another vehicle.  Our van runs but it makes all sorts of noises and there are warning lights blinking on the dash.  Even though the mechanic that looked at it said that the warning light doesn't make the van unsafe and the van is still operable, we need a new vehicle."  So within a week of her telling me this, she arrives at work one day ecstatically excited.  The previous evening her and her husband went to the dealership and decided on a vehicle.  They "splurged" on the vehicle that cost an extra $1500 because it was a Sparkling Diamond color (or some ridiculous color name like it).  Yep, fantastic deal she tells me, because it is 0% financing for 8 years.  That is less than $200 biweekly she goes on to say.  My response was a goofy smile, mandible of jaw on the floor, and I stammered out a "w. w.. wwwow.  That is great.  Good for you."  Queue my Forehead hitting the Wall once again...

And this is where it gets worse.  Within the first week of getting the vehicle, she is talking about plans she has for her and her family.  She thinks that her current purchase is so good, that she is going to "sell" their SUV to her daughter (16 years old, just got her driver's license) in a couple of years.  That way, her and her husband can get a new vehicle again at that point, and her daughter won't have to worry about driving an old, cheap car.  Yep, her daughter is still in school, works a minimum wage job, and her mom is going to give her a real life education on how to make financing payments - on a car.  Considering the vehicle she bought, the very little maintenance they do on their vehicles, the amount of (needless) driving they would put on that vehicle in a couple of years, even the fact she smokes in the vehicle all the time, there is no doubt she will "sell" the vehicle to her daughter for more than it is worth - she says "for whatever remains on the financing of the car, is what I would sell it for." 

No, don't teach you child about making responsible financial choices.  No, rather, teach them the ways of anti-mustachianism in very real terms and make them learn hard life lessons instead - if they learn them at all. 
I've got a very young family and just typing this out, makes my stomach queezy and I'm way too worked up for my good.  Time to walk home, get some fresh air, and calm down ("keepin' calm and stachin' on!)

[Goldielocks]

Reminds me...

FIL sold us his car, a 10 year old Acura sedan that had quite a bit of mileage on it.  He acted like he was doing us a favour by selling his "baby" to us at the full retail value.   Never mind that he had never sold a car privately in his life, had always done a trade in, and happily, too.   And he expected us to be ever grateful to him.   It was touch and go, but DH bought the car because it was priced at private retail, equivalent to the other seller we found, it was what we generally wanted, and we know the owner.  Thank goodness MIL got a bit upset at FIL when she found out and insisted on taking it to the mechanic and paying for repairs before handing it over.

Of course, two years later SIL, received a new Acura from FIL because DH was given an Acura two years before and the new Acura was a very good price....  I think another poster commented (different thread) about how people remember and justify things all twisted.

Never "sell" your old crap to your kids!   I liked the forced savings idea (where money is returned as education) another poster mentioned,  but selling stuff you don't want anymore to your kids, and calling it a "gift" or "Favour" is crappy.

[nick69]

Never "sell" your old crap to your kids!   I liked the forced savings idea (where money is returned as education) another poster mentioned,  but selling stuff you don't want anymore to your kids, and calling it a "gift" or "Favour" is crappy.

Depends on whether you think there should be some sort of forced 'family hand me down discount' or if its just business.

I bought my first car off my parents when they decided it was time for an upgrade (they'd had it 15+ yrs at that point). I wasn't forced to buy anything, the option was just there if it made financial sense (and it did). The only reason they sold it to me instead of the dealership was that I offered them $1 more than the trade in price.

[theadvicist]

At least she got 0% financing :)

Yeah, but is there really such a thing as 0%? I always think it's just worked into the purchase price.

When we bought my engagement ring, we were told, "And we do 0% financing! It won't cost you a penny!". My husband-to-be said, "So how much discount can you offer for paying in full today?", and it turned out, it was 5% of the price.

[LennStar]

Yes, 0% offers are always already in the price.
Also, the company giving you 0% makes a better deal then giving the money to a bank at -0.1% (Yes, banks here in Europe charge you (big businesses) now for giving your money to them. But we have solved the finance crisis ahaahahahaaaaaaaa!)

[KodeBlue]

Wait, wait, wait $100 per day, per DAY?!?

Please tell me 'Blow It' money is what my dirty mind is thinking as a charge for services rendered in the bedroom.

And, just to be clear, MAM thinks that Blackjack is set up to give people money. Is it impolite to ask why she is still working? Looking forward to future tales.

Well, if you are good at counting cards, Blackjack isn't so bad.  Maybe she doesn't do it often, so she doesn't get caught?

How can she count cards? She apparently can't even count money.

[marty998]

Guy in lift talking to friend...

"We spend $160 on personal training"
"A month?"
"A week"

I just raised my eyebrows and walked out. I mean... I guess it looked like it was working for him.

There's worse you could be spending cash on then making yourself more healthy.

[Ceridwen]

Today I'm meeting someone in my office lobby to sell a baby item I sold to them online.  In the elevator this morning, a colleague sees me with the (rather bulky) item and inquires, so I tell her my plans.

CW: How much are you getting for that?
Me: $5
CW: Wow, I would not go to this trouble for $5!
Me: -

Exiting elevator
CW: (sarcastically) Enjoy your $5!
Me: I WILL!!!

[Ceridwen]

At least she got 0% financing :)

Yeah, but is there really such a thing as 0%? I always think it's just worked into the purchase price.

When we bought my engagement ring, we were told, "And we do 0% financing! It won't cost you a penny!". My husband-to-be said, "So how much discount can you offer for paying in full today?", and it turned out, it was 5% of the price.

My husband went through the same thing when he bought my engagement ring, but they offered no discount for paying in full, so he took the 0% financing just to spite them.

[Paul der Krake]

At least she got 0% financing :)

Yeah, but is there really such a thing as 0%? I always think it's just worked into the purchase price.

When we bought my engagement ring, we were told, "And we do 0% financing! It won't cost you a penny!". My husband-to-be said, "So how much discount can you offer for paying in full today?", and it turned out, it was 5% of the price.

My husband went through the same thing when he bought my engagement ring, but they offered no discount for paying in full, so he took the 0% financing just to spite them.

He showed them by taking the thing they were pushing?

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Today I'm meeting someone in my office lobby to sell a baby item I sold to them online.  In the elevator this morning, a colleague sees me with the (rather bulky) item and inquires, so I tell her my plans.

CW: How much are you getting for that?
Me: $5
CW: Wow, I would not go to this trouble for $5!
Me: -

Exiting elevator
CW: (sarcastically) Enjoy your $5!
Me: I WILL!!!

Oddly, the CW wouldn't have thought it weird to go to that amount of trouble for an overpriced latte, which would involve SPENDING $5.

[dandarc]

At least she got 0% financing :)

Yeah, but is there really such a thing as 0%? I always think it's just worked into the purchase price.

When we bought my engagement ring, we were told, "And we do 0% financing! It won't cost you a penny!". My husband-to-be said, "So how much discount can you offer for paying in full today?", and it turned out, it was 5% of the price.

My husband went through the same thing when he bought my engagement ring, but they offered no discount for paying in full, so he took the 0% financing just to spite them.

He showed them by taking the thing they were pushing?

They might have even gotten more money on the 0% financing.  I know at a retail job I used to work, the 6-months same-as-cash financing we had to offer actually paid the store something like 102% of the amount financed.

[MrMoogle]

At least she got 0% financing :)

Yeah, but is there really such a thing as 0%? I always think it's just worked into the purchase price.

When we bought my engagement ring, we were told, "And we do 0% financing! It won't cost you a penny!". My husband-to-be said, "So how much discount can you offer for paying in full today?", and it turned out, it was 5% of the price.

My husband went through the same thing when he bought my engagement ring, but they offered no discount for paying in full, so he took the 0% financing just to spite them.

He showed them by taking the thing they were pushing?

They might have even gotten more money on the 0% financing.  I know at a retail job I used to work, the 6-months same-as-cash financing we had to offer actually paid the store something like 102% of the amount financed.

0%, but added "financing fees."

[Ceridwen]

At least she got 0% financing :)

Yeah, but is there really such a thing as 0%? I always think it's just worked into the purchase price.

When we bought my engagement ring, we were told, "And we do 0% financing! It won't cost you a penny!". My husband-to-be said, "So how much discount can you offer for paying in full today?", and it turned out, it was 5% of the price.

My husband went through the same thing when he bought my engagement ring, but they offered no discount for paying in full, so he took the 0% financing just to spite them.

He showed them by taking the thing they were pushing?

First of all, they weren't pushing it.  He went in and bought exactly what he wanted to.  Buy yes, he figured that if they wanted to go through the extra expense on their end (paperwork, employee time, etc) to set up 0% financing, he'd let them go through the effort.

[Chris22]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

[Ceridwen]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

Interesting.   I had no idea that's how it could work.

[mm1970]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

Interesting.   I had no idea that's how it could work.

Yes, I read some information on how to buy a car (from a dealer), which I unintentionally followed when our last car died and we bought new.

1.  First negotiate the price of the car.
2.  Negotiate the trade in amount (or vice versa?)
3.  Financing, if you need it.

They always try to lump it, but the important thing is to do all 3 separately.

So on that particular car, they kept trying to lump them together, and I wouldn't budge.  I finally got up to leave and they met my price. 
Then we  moved on to the trade in on my POS (it was fair.  The actual trade in value if it had been running was about $800).

When it came to financing, we pulled out the checkbook.

[mtn]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

If you pay in cash, they (either the dealership or financing company, doesn't matter) get nothing other than the profit from the sale of the car. If you finance, even at 0%, they at least have a chance at making more--if you miss a payment, you pay a late fee. If you can't make your payment for some reason, they'll renegotiate with you at a lower monthly payment and higher interest rate for longer term. But if you paid in cash? They have no chance at that.

And it means nothing to most dealerships if they get paid now or later--the exception would be the small mom and pop shops.

[Chris22]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

If you pay in cash, they (either the dealership or financing company, doesn't matter) get nothing other than the profit from the sale of the car. If you finance, even at 0%, they at least have a chance at making more--if you miss a payment, you pay a late fee. If you can't make your payment for some reason, they'll renegotiate with you at a lower monthly payment and higher interest rate for longer term. But if you paid in cash? They have no chance at that.

And it means nothing to most dealerships if they get paid now or later--the exception would be the small mom and pop shops.

Fair points, except that a dealership does get paid at time of sale, the financing company buys the car from the dealer (takes title) and then you pay the financing company.  Once the sale occurs, the dealership is essentially done. 

[Digital Dogma]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

I found this was true with many of the Subrau dealerships near me, but after many many visits around the state I found one hungry for a sale. When they'd ask about financing I'd tell them "We're not interested in financing" and they'd lose all interest in making a sale. We had a low interest car loan set up through Navy Federal Credit Union but weren't about to let that slip during negotiations. When we got past the negotiation aspect of the deal to the high-pressure sales pitch for warranty and turned down everything, we presented the high pressure salesman with the info he needed to finance the vehicle through Navy Federal. He went through all sorts of affectation that "ooh this will be so much more difficult than financing through us"... isn't that why we paid the dealership a $400 conveyance fee?

[Chris22]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

I found this was true with many of the Subrau dealerships near me, but after many many visits around the state I found one hungry for a sale. When they'd ask about financing I'd tell them "We're not interested in financing" and they'd lose all interest in making a sale. We had a low interest car loan set up through Navy Federal Credit Union but weren't about to let that slip during negotiations. When we got past the negotiation aspect of the deal to the high-pressure sales pitch for warranty and turned down everything, we presented the high pressure salesman with the info he needed to finance the vehicle through Navy Federal. He went through all sorts of affectation that "ooh this will be so much more difficult than financing through us"... isn't that why we paid the dealership a $400 conveyance fee?

Why were you worried about being secretive?  Every time I've bought a car, I've gotten a pre-approval from my bank or CU at an interest rate (usually it's about 2.5%) and then went in to the dealer.  When it came time to pay, I've said, I've got this pre-approved check at 2.5%, I'll use that unless you can beat it.  All but one time (when I was buying a used car from a dealer that sold a different make, so I wasn't eligible for their captive finance arm) they've beaten the rate.  What do you gain from keeping your financing source a secret? 

[frugalnacho]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

I found this was true with many of the Subrau dealerships near me, but after many many visits around the state I found one hungry for a sale. When they'd ask about financing I'd tell them "We're not interested in financing" and they'd lose all interest in making a sale. We had a low interest car loan set up through Navy Federal Credit Union but weren't about to let that slip during negotiations. When we got past the negotiation aspect of the deal to the high-pressure sales pitch for warranty and turned down everything, we presented the high pressure salesman with the info he needed to finance the vehicle through Navy Federal. He went through all sorts of affectation that "ooh this will be so much more difficult than financing through us"... isn't that why we paid the dealership a $400 conveyance fee?

Why were you worried about being secretive?  Every time I've bought a car, I've gotten a pre-approval from my bank or CU at an interest rate (usually it's about 2.5%) and then went in to the dealer.  When it came time to pay, I've said, I've got this pre-approved check at 2.5%, I'll use that unless you can beat it.  All but one time (when I was buying a used car from a dealer that sold a different make, so I wasn't eligible for their captive finance arm) they've beaten the rate.  What do you gain from keeping your financing source a secret?

I think he means before the sale.  Once you tell them you've obtained a good rate elsewhere, they know they won't be able to make any profit on the financing portion of the sale.  They may actually negotiate down to a reasonable vehicle price if they think they can get it all back by setting you up with a 23% loan.

[Chris22]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

I found this was true with many of the Subrau dealerships near me, but after many many visits around the state I found one hungry for a sale. When they'd ask about financing I'd tell them "We're not interested in financing" and they'd lose all interest in making a sale. We had a low interest car loan set up through Navy Federal Credit Union but weren't about to let that slip during negotiations. When we got past the negotiation aspect of the deal to the high-pressure sales pitch for warranty and turned down everything, we presented the high pressure salesman with the info he needed to finance the vehicle through Navy Federal. He went through all sorts of affectation that "ooh this will be so much more difficult than financing through us"... isn't that why we paid the dealership a $400 conveyance fee?

Why were you worried about being secretive?  Every time I've bought a car, I've gotten a pre-approval from my bank or CU at an interest rate (usually it's about 2.5%) and then went in to the dealer.  When it came time to pay, I've said, I've got this pre-approved check at 2.5%, I'll use that unless you can beat it.  All but one time (when I was buying a used car from a dealer that sold a different make, so I wasn't eligible for their captive finance arm) they've beaten the rate.  What do you gain from keeping your financing source a secret?

I think he means before the sale.  Once you tell them you've obtained a good rate elsewhere, they know they won't be able to make any profit on the financing portion of the sale.  They may actually negotiate down to a reasonable vehicle price if they think they can get it all back by setting you up with a 23% loan.

Maybe I just give off the "good credit vibe" or something, but every dealer I've worked with doing this has always taken it as a challenge, if I bring them 2.5%, they're going to get me 2.4% or better come hell or high water.  Given that Subaru dealers are used to working with a reasonably affluent customer base, I doubt they are anticipating soaking anyone with a 23% loan, and I don't believe new car dealers have their own captive financing anyways (it's through the manufacturer or maybe a bank), there's nothing in it for them for a higher interest rate. 

[mtn]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

If you pay in cash, they (either the dealership or financing company, doesn't matter) get nothing other than the profit from the sale of the car. If you finance, even at 0%, they at least have a chance at making more--if you miss a payment, you pay a late fee. If you can't make your payment for some reason, they'll renegotiate with you at a lower monthly payment and higher interest rate for longer term. But if you paid in cash? They have no chance at that.

And it means nothing to most dealerships if they get paid now or later--the exception would be the small mom and pop shops.

Fair points, except that a dealership does get paid at time of sale, the financing company buys the car from the dealer (takes title) and then you pay the financing company.  Once the sale occurs, the dealership is essentially done.

Correct, except for the bolded part above (not my words). It is in both the dealer and the finance company's best interest to get you to finance. But you're right, hence the reason why making a cash offer to [most large] dealerships doesn't really help you as a negotiating tactic.

[frugalnacho]

Sometimes cash/100% at front is cheaper, but many times, they push the financing so hard that it's actually worse for you if you want to pay in cash.  Go negotiate a deal on a car where they think you're financing at 0%, and then tell them at the last minute you want to pay cash, they'll try to renegotiate the deal because they want you in the financing, even at 0%.  They get kickbacks from the financing company to keep you financed, even at 0%.  Can't say I completely understand it, but I've witnessed it.

I found this was true with many of the Subrau dealerships near me, but after many many visits around the state I found one hungry for a sale. When they'd ask about financing I'd tell them "We're not interested in financing" and they'd lose all interest in making a sale. We had a low interest car loan set up through Navy Federal Credit Union but weren't about to let that slip during negotiations. When we got past the negotiation aspect of the deal to the high-pressure sales pitch for warranty and turned down everything, we presented the high pressure salesman with the info he needed to finance the vehicle through Navy Federal. He went through all sorts of affectation that "ooh this will be so much more difficult than financing through us"... isn't that why we paid the dealership a $400 conveyance fee?

Why were you worried about being secretive?  Every time I've bought a car, I've gotten a pre-approval from my bank or CU at an interest rate (usually it's about 2.5%) and then went in to the dealer.  When it came time to pay, I've said, I've got this pre-approved check at 2.5%, I'll use that unless you can beat it.  All but one time (when I was buying a used car from a dealer that sold a different make, so I wasn't eligible for their captive finance arm) they've beaten the rate.  What do you gain from keeping your financing source a secret?

I think he means before the sale.  Once you tell them you've obtained a good rate elsewhere, they know they won't be able to make any profit on the financing portion of the sale.  They may actually negotiate down to a reasonable vehicle price if they think they can get it all back by setting you up with a 23% loan.

Maybe I just give off the "good credit vibe" or something, but every dealer I've worked with doing this has always taken it as a challenge, if I bring them 2.5%, they're going to get me 2.4% or better come hell or high water.  Given that Subaru dealers are used to working with a reasonably affluent customer base, I doubt they are anticipating soaking anyone with a 23% loan, and I don't believe new car dealers have their own captive financing anyways (it's through the manufacturer or maybe a bank), there's nothing in it for them for a higher interest rate.

Yes, but that should be a completely separate issue from negotiating the price.  First discuss the price of the car, then the financing.   They will magically beat out the competitions offer by 0.1% because making some money is better than making no money, but they would give you a much much worse rate if they could get away with it.

[toodleoo]

Coworker told me today: I gotta finish paying off my 401(k) loan so I can take out another loan to pay for my daughter's wedding!

*facepalm*

[lizzie]

OK, I brought this on myself intentionally, but it was kinda fun...

My boss is fond of mocking me for being, as he says, "cheap" because I do things like bring my lunch from home and bike or bus to work. Also, on the rare occasions when we do go out as a group (like to take an intern out or something), he'll pay with his credit card and we're expected to pay him back, and I expect him to give me back the change I'm owed. This makes me "cheap" even though he earns far more than I do.

Anyway, the other day after one of these lunches he stopped at the bank to get a $100 bill to give his nephew for graduation. I knew this was probably a bad idea, but I couldn't resist: I needled him by saying, "$100? That's all? I just gave my niece $500 for her graduation."***

So my boss actually calls in another coworker to berate me to her: "Can you believe Lizzie gave her niece $500 for graduation? What a faker, she's always pretending to be so frugal, bringing in her lunch blah blah blah, but she's richer than any of us!"

I said, "You know, you might want to consider that those things are actually related."

The look on his face: priceless.


***This might seem excessive, but I had my reasons, such as that I enjoy spoiling my niece because she's a sweetheart who's had a rough life and besides she can really use it.

[With This Herring]

Another Chapter in the Story of Mrs. Anti-Mustachian (MAM)...

*snip description of absolute fiscal carnage, beautifully detailed*

Queue Cue my Forehead hitting the Wall once again...

FTFY
("Cue" because it is the signal to make something happen, such as when a movie director says "Cue fight scene!"  The idiom isn't about lining things up.)

*snip*
And this is where it gets worse.  Within the first week of getting the vehicle, she is talking about plans she has for her and her family.  She thinks that her current purchase is so good, that she is going to "sell" their SUV to her daughter (16 years old, just got her driver's license) in a couple of years.  That way, her and her husband can get a new vehicle again at that point, and her daughter won't have to worry about driving an old, cheap car.  Yep, her daughter is still in school, works a minimum wage job, and her mom is going to give her a real life education on how to make financing payments - on a car.  Considering the vehicle she bought, the very little maintenance they do on their vehicles, the amount of (needless) driving they would put on that vehicle in a couple of years, even the fact she smokes in the vehicle all the time, there is no doubt she will "sell" the vehicle to her daughter for more than it is worth - she says "for whatever remains on the financing of the car, is what I would sell it for." 

No, don't teach you child about making responsible financial choices.  No, rather, teach them the ways of anti-mustachianism in very real terms and make them learn hard life lessons instead - if they learn them at all. 
I've got a very young family and just typing this out, makes my stomach queezy and I'm way too worked up for my good.  Time to walk home, get some fresh air, and calm down ("keepin' calm and stachin' on!)

Oh, that's horrendous.  Is there a chance you know MAM Junior well enough to tell her "Whatever you do, don't agree to take over payments on that SUV.  Tell your parents you are uncomfortable driving it and buy a small, older, low-mileage Toyota with cash.  You'll thank me in ten years."

[TOgirl]

I bring my breakfast/coffee/lunch to work everyday, but often go with coworkers when they buy their food, as it makes for a nice break from the office, and a nice walk. I eat my food before or after we walk to buy theirs. Last week, a new designer pizza place opened up down the street (in one of the most expensive areas in the city) so obviously coworkers HAD TO try it out!!! They order paper thin, personal size margherita pizzas (hand tossed, blah blah...) ball of dough, three leaves of basil, some sauce, and a few spots of mozzeralla...for $10.95 plus 13% tax....when they came out of the oven, the crust had bubbled up as pizza crust does, but the bubbles were all burnt. They brought their pizzas back and we ate in a meeting room together once I grabbed my lunch from my desk. As they scraped the burnt flakes off of their pizzas, they were exclaiming "wow...these are a great deal, at a restaurant these would easily be $18 each plus tax and tip, we scored on lunch today!!!" Hmmm....my packed meals for the day cost about $3 total, and none of them are burnt...

[zephyr911]

I bring my breakfast/coffee/lunch to work everyday, but often go with coworkers when they buy their food, as it makes for a nice break from the office, and a nice walk. I eat my food before or after we walk to buy theirs. Last week, a new designer pizza place opened up down the street (in one of the most expensive areas in the city) so obviously coworkers HAD TO try it out!!! They order paper thin, personal size margherita pizzas (hand tossed, blah blah...) ball of dough, three leaves of basil, some sauce, and a few spots of mozzeralla...for $10.95 plus 13% tax....when they came out of the oven, the crust had bubbled up as pizza crust does, but the bubbles were all burnt. They brought their pizzas back and we ate in a meeting room together once I grabbed my lunch from my desk. As they scraped the burnt flakes off of their pizzas, they were exclaiming "wow...these are a great deal, at a restaurant these would easily be $18 each plus tax and tip, we scored on lunch today!!!" Hmmm....my packed meals for the day cost about $3 total, and none of them are burnt...

THREE DOLLARS A DAY on work food? What are you, rich? ;)

[Proud Foot]

Not quite at work but on the way home yesterday I heard this ad on the radio..

"Don't know what to get Dad for Father's Day? Come down to xyz gunshop and get the latest brand name AR-15 rifle plus 1,000 rounds of ammunition for only $999!!!"

I don't have any idea of whether that is a good deal or not, but do people actually spend that much for one holiday gift?  i think the total I have spent on gifts for my Dad for all Father's Days combined is less than that!

[mtn]

Not quite at work but on the way home yesterday I heard this ad on the radio..

"Don't know what to get Dad for Father's Day? Come down to xyz gunshop and get the latest brand name AR-15 rifle plus 1,000 rounds of ammunition for only $999!!!"

I don't have any idea of whether that is a good deal or not, but do people actually spend that much for one holiday gift?  i think the total I have spent on gifts for my Dad for all Father's Days combined is less than that!

They're probably advertising to anyone who wants the ammo; father's day is just the reason. I'm sure there are some people out there who will spend that much, but most won't. I think I'm taking my dad out to play golf and get lunch at White Castle.

[Chris22]

Not quite at work but on the way home yesterday I heard this ad on the radio..

"Don't know what to get Dad for Father's Day? Come down to xyz gunshop and get the latest brand name AR-15 rifle plus 1,000 rounds of ammunition for only $999!!!"

I don't have any idea of whether that is a good deal or not, but do people actually spend that much for one holiday gift?  i think the total I have spent on gifts for my Dad for all Father's Days combined is less than that!

For my family, and others I know, Father's Day is the one holiday where dad maybe picks his own gift out and goes out and buys it.  And it's usually stuff like a new grill or a a tool or something that Dad needed (or "needed") anyways.  One year I told my wife don't buy me anything, I just want to go to the golf store and get a new putter.  This year I told her I am sick of dealing with the two leaky, rickety, constantly breaking plastic hose reels and crappy garden hoses we have, I'm going to go out and buy a nice metal cart and a decent, durable, quality hose that will last and not leak all over.  Stuff like that.   

[Kitsune]

Huh. In my family, Father's Day (and Mother's Day) is an excuse to do something nice for the person.

So, like... My husband will probably get to sleep in and my daughter and I will make a breakfast he likes. We're having my dad over for dinner so he can spend time with his grandkid. That kind of thing. For Mother's Day, I got to sleep in and drink a latte in bed while reading a book, and my husband cut tulips from the garden and brought them in because he knows I love tulips. Maybe minor expenses in terms of ingredients, but mostly it's about effort and caring. (Ok - we got my mom flowers, because that matters to her. 15$ expense.)

My colleague, though... New bbq and tools for Father's Day! A kitchen aid bbq, because why wouldn't you spend 500$ extra for a brand name that doesn't add bbq quality! And then she complains about being broke. SIGH.

[zolotiyeruki]

Not quite at work but on the way home yesterday I heard this ad on the radio..

"Don't know what to get Dad for Father's Day? Come down to xyz gunshop and get the latest brand name AR-15 rifle plus 1,000 rounds of ammunition for only $999!!!"

I don't have any idea of whether that is a good deal or not, but do people actually spend that much for one holiday gift?  i think the total I have spent on gifts for my Dad for all Father's Days combined is less than that!

It depends on the gun, really.  You can get a decent low-end AR-15 for $550 (plus shipping and any FFL fees), but you can also spend >$1k.  Ammo for those rifles is somewhere in the $0.25-$.40/round range, typically.

[Warlord1986]

Daddy usually gets some specialty shaving cream and/or specialty coffee and/or a bottle of specialty olive oil. Each is less than $10. They work for Father's Day, Christmas, birthday, etc. The response I get tells me they're appreciated.

[mm1970]

I bring my breakfast/coffee/lunch to work everyday, but often go with coworkers when they buy their food, as it makes for a nice break from the office, and a nice walk. I eat my food before or after we walk to buy theirs. Last week, a new designer pizza place opened up down the street (in one of the most expensive areas in the city) so obviously coworkers HAD TO try it out!!! They order paper thin, personal size margherita pizzas (hand tossed, blah blah...) ball of dough, three leaves of basil, some sauce, and a few spots of mozzeralla...for $10.95 plus 13% tax....when they came out of the oven, the crust had bubbled up as pizza crust does, but the bubbles were all burnt. They brought their pizzas back and we ate in a meeting room together once I grabbed my lunch from my desk. As they scraped the burnt flakes off of their pizzas, they were exclaiming "wow...these are a great deal, at a restaurant these would easily be $18 each plus tax and tip, we scored on lunch today!!!" Hmmm....my packed meals for the day cost about $3 total, and none of them are burnt...

THREE DOLLARS A DAY on work food? What are you, rich? ;)

Hah, funny.  Last week I was doing some  math on my work food.  Back in the day, when I'd explained to coworkers that I was packing lunches and saving $3500 a year doing it (packing for 3 people), I was eating a lot more carbs.

So I realized that my salad/ veggies/ fruit/ protein lunches are closer to $5, compares to my beans-and-rice lunches of $1.50.

But hey, I'm less chubby!

[MgoSam]

So I realized that my salad/ veggies/ fruit/ protein lunches are closer to $5, compares to my beans-and-rice lunches of $1.50.

But hey, I'm less chubby!

I usually toss a few pounds of frozen chicken breasts in the slow cooker with two hot sauces and turn it on low for 9 hours, shred and put in a container. My lunches consist of nuking a portion of the chicken and eating it with a quick salad. The salad is extremely simple, usually just a mix of greens (spinach, kale, romaine, ect). It costs maybe $2 per lunch.

[TOgirl]

I bring my breakfast/coffee/lunch to work everyday, but often go with coworkers when they buy their food, as it makes for a nice break from the office, and a nice walk. I eat my food before or after we walk to buy theirs. Last week, a new designer pizza place opened up down the street (in one of the most expensive areas in the city) so obviously coworkers HAD TO try it out!!! They order paper thin, personal size margherita pizzas (hand tossed, blah blah...) ball of dough, three leaves of basil, some sauce, and a few spots of mozzeralla...for $10.95 plus 13% tax....when they came out of the oven, the crust had bubbled up as pizza crust does, but the bubbles were all burnt. They brought their pizzas back and we ate in a meeting room together once I grabbed my lunch from my desk. As they scraped the burnt flakes off of their pizzas, they were exclaiming "wow...these are a great deal, at a restaurant these would easily be $18 each plus tax and tip, we scored on lunch today!!!" Hmmm....my packed meals for the day cost about $3 total, and none of them are burnt...

THREE DOLLARS A DAY on work food? What are you, rich? ;)

Hah, funny.  Last week I was doing some  math on my work food.  Back in the day, when I'd explained to coworkers that I was packing lunches and saving $3500 a year doing it (packing for 3 people), I was eating a lot more carbs.

So I realized that my salad/ veggies/ fruit/ protein lunches are closer to $5, compares to my beans-and-rice lunches of $1.50.

But hey, I'm less chubby!

Hahaha! I don't know if it's really $3 a day...I keep a big bag of oats at work for oatmeal, (add a scoop of protein powder and frozen berries to it), and then leftovers for lunch - usually veggies or salad, with chicken or tuna...but it sure makes me feel rich at the end of the week, when they've spent $60-70 plus on lunches and I've spent maybe $10-15 on all my breakfasts and lunches for the week...

I get how it's hard for them though - they have no time! A quote from this morning "nope, didn't pack a lunch again!!! I know I know!! I SHOULD!!! But I didn't have time because we were out for dinner!"

Let's not discuss their fancy coffee habits several times a day....while I use the keurig in the office and a reusable pod, so my cups of survival are $0.04 each...