Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)

[ixtap]

My husband won't make time to download his W2 and I can't even bug him about it because we don't have all of our 1099 Bs yet.

[Taran Wanderer]

I always used to wonder why they would have an RMD in the first place, and why people would complain about it. Now that I've found MMM, and have started to save aggressively, it's all making sense now!

Here's your new best friend and a link to an interesting rabbit hole:

https://www.gocurrycracker.com/who-pays-no-taxes/

That’s a great explanation. Thanks for sharing.

[Sibley]

I'm internally wincing at what my utility bills are going to look like this month. Have one faucet dripping 24/7 for a day so far and will be into the weekend at least. The heat has been set higher 24/7 since last Friday. I've got a space heater running at least half the time. At least it's only one room that is actually at risk of freezing the pipes.

The utility room pipes did freeze while I was gone last weekend, but it seems there was no damage done. We used pex specifically because it is more forgiving of freezing, and that room is just dumb.

[LennStar]

I'm internally wincing at what my utility bills are going to look like this month. Have one faucet dripping 24/7 for a day so far and will be into the weekend at least. The heat has been set higher 24/7 since last Friday. I've got a space heater running at least half the time. At least it's only one room that is actually at risk of freezing the pipes.

The utility room pipes did freeze while I was gone last weekend, but it seems there was no damage done. We used pex specifically because it is more forgiving of freezing, and that room is just dumb.

Thanks for reminding me for one reason why I happily rent a flat in a multi-party building. There just isn't that sort fo problem. And if there would be, someone else would do something asap.

[LateToTheParty]

I moved from 40 hours/week to 20 hours/week at work + DH is retiring this week.   Therefore, I changed my withholding to married filing single to increase taxes withheld (in order to offset estimated taxes for doing Roth conversions in these lower tax years) AND I increased 401k to 60% + changed it to Roth 401k instead of traditional 401k.

Net pay for 2 consecutive pay periods was ~ $300; this is about what I expected it to be.

However, when I looked at more detailed view, I realized they were still paying my old salary at 1.0 FTE!  The majority of the salary was going to taxes and 401k Roth.  And the net pay was ~ the same as what I was expecting for half-time salary.

So now I owe backpay on the overpayment.   Most of which went directly to taxes and Roth 401k.

My boss wondered why I did not notice the oveerpayment after first pay period.  Ummmmm....  cuz I’m working for insurance benefits at this point, and stuffing as much as I can into retirement....  🤷🏻‍♀️  Didn’t even notice!  I reported it as soon as I realized. 

[fuzzy math]

I'm internally wincing at what my utility bills are going to look like this month. Have one faucet dripping 24/7 for a day so far and will be into the weekend at least. The heat has been set higher 24/7 since last Friday. I've got a space heater running at least half the time. At least it's only one room that is actually at risk of freezing the pipes.

The utility room pipes did freeze while I was gone last weekend, but it seems there was no damage done. We used pex specifically because it is more forgiving of freezing, and that room is just dumb.

Also suffering the deep freeze a few hours west of you. I'm fully expecting an $800 power bill... that's with the house at 65, frost on my single pane windows (just moved here, going to replace windows in spring). The most frustrating part is not having had a regular bill yet to compare it to.

[Sibley]

I'm internally wincing at what my utility bills are going to look like this month. Have one faucet dripping 24/7 for a day so far and will be into the weekend at least. The heat has been set higher 24/7 since last Friday. I've got a space heater running at least half the time. At least it's only one room that is actually at risk of freezing the pipes.

The utility room pipes did freeze while I was gone last weekend, but it seems there was no damage done. We used pex specifically because it is more forgiving of freezing, and that room is just dumb.

Also suffering the deep freeze a few hours west of you. I'm fully expecting an $800 power bill... that's with the house at 65, frost on my single pane windows (just moved here, going to replace windows in spring). The most frustrating part is not having had a regular bill yet to compare it to.

Ouch. Mine won't be that high, though I do need to add insulation in the attic.

I assume you have old wood windows? Storms may be cheaper, and properly maintained wood windows last longer than vinyl.

[Alternatepriorities]

I'm internally wincing at what my utility bills are going to look like this month. Have one faucet dripping 24/7 for a day so far and will be into the weekend at least. The heat has been set higher 24/7 since last Friday. I've got a space heater running at least half the time. At least it's only one room that is actually at risk of freezing the pipes.

The utility room pipes did freeze while I was gone last weekend, but it seems there was no damage done. We used pex specifically because it is more forgiving of freezing, and that room is just dumb.

Also suffering the deep freeze a few hours west of you. I'm fully expecting an $800 power bill... that's with the house at 65, frost on my single pane windows (just moved here, going to replace windows in spring). The most frustrating part is not having had a regular bill yet to compare it to.

Ouch! I can’t recommend a wood stove highly enough. My first house is now a rental, and doesn’t have a Wood Stove. It’s about 25% smaller, doesn’t have an energy loosing and garage door and is generally better insulated with than our current house with new windows (I did a lot of work on it). Despite all of that it still uses 1/3 more gas than the house with the wood stove as long as I am there to feed it...

[fuzzy math]

I'm internally wincing at what my utility bills are going to look like this month. Have one faucet dripping 24/7 for a day so far and will be into the weekend at least. The heat has been set higher 24/7 since last Friday. I've got a space heater running at least half the time. At least it's only one room that is actually at risk of freezing the pipes.

The utility room pipes did freeze while I was gone last weekend, but it seems there was no damage done. We used pex specifically because it is more forgiving of freezing, and that room is just dumb.

Also suffering the deep freeze a few hours west of you. I'm fully expecting an $800 power bill... that's with the house at 65, frost on my single pane windows (just moved here, going to replace windows in spring). The most frustrating part is not having had a regular bill yet to compare it to.

Ouch! I can’t recommend a wood stove highly enough. My first house is now a rental, and doesn’t have a Wood Stove. It’s about 25% smaller, doesn’t have an energy loosing and garage door and is generally better insulated with than our current house with new windows (I did a lot of work on it). Despite all of that it still uses 1/3 more gas than the house with the wood stove as long as I am there to feed it...

I have a pellet stove that some dumb chimney guy has been out 3x to "work on" that still hasn't resulted in it being fixed. Its not a complicated fix, he just says "oops i ordered the wrong part" then ghosts me for 2 weeks while his truck isn't working etc... its been a huge source of frustration in a really busy time

[merula]

Ouch. Mine won't be that high, though I do need to add insulation in the attic.

I assume you have old wood windows? Storms may be cheaper, and properly maintained wood windows last longer than vinyl.

Can confirm. My 100 year old house has seen its share of Minnesota winters. The original windows with 1980s storms are going strong; the 2000s-era vinyl replacements are on their last legs. (Although I did have the originals retrofitted with modern sliders as several of the ropes of the weight-and-pulley system had broken.)

Does anyone know if it's possible to put original-style wooden windows BACK?

[Morning Glory]

Ouch. Mine won't be that high, though I do need to add insulation in the attic.

I assume you have old wood windows? Storms may be cheaper, and properly maintained wood windows last longer than vinyl.

Can confirm. My 100 year old house has seen its share of Minnesota winters. The original windows with 1980s storms are going strong; the 2000s-era vinyl replacements are on their last legs. (Although I did have the originals retrofitted with modern sliders as several of the ropes of the weight-and-pulley system had broken.)

Does anyone know if it's possible to put original-style wooden windows BACK?

I have modern double hung wooden windows plus storms in most of my house. Not drafty at all. The sliding glass door in my kitchen is drafty. So are the casement style windows on an enclosed porch.

It is brutally cold and windy right now. I am thankful to be able to work from home today, but I'm going a bit crazy here with not getting out much. First world problem, I know.

[SwordGuy]

Ouch. Mine won't be that high, though I do need to add insulation in the attic.

I assume you have old wood windows? Storms may be cheaper, and properly maintained wood windows last longer than vinyl.

Can confirm. My 100 year old house has seen its share of Minnesota winters. The original windows with 1980s storms are going strong; the 2000s-era vinyl replacements are on their last legs. (Although I did have the originals retrofitted with modern sliders as several of the ropes of the weight-and-pulley system had broken.)

Does anyone know if it's possible to put original-style wooden windows BACK?

I have modern double hung wooden windows plus storms in most of my house. Not drafty at all. The sliding glass door in my kitchen is drafty. So are the casement style windows on an enclosed porch.

It is brutally cold and windy right now. I am thankful to be able to work from home today, but I'm going a bit crazy here with not getting out much. First world problem, I know.

We used to live in a drafty old apartment and then a slightly less drafty old house.   We just stapled plastic sheeting over the windows on the outside.  (The cats would have shredded them on the inside.)   Really helped with warming the place up.    Poor-people solutions.

[Steeze]

Duck Brand polycryo door kit also makes a badass addition to your ultralight camping kit as a ground cloth.

[Gerard]

Canadian MPP: I developed an elaborate multi-year plan to withdraw from my RRSP, based on amount of pension, tax rates, etc. But the equities in the RRSP are growing in value faster than the amount I'm taking out each year!

[SwordGuy]

Canadian MPP: I developed an elaborate multi-year plan to withdraw from my RRSP, based on amount of pension, tax rates, etc. But the equities in the RRSP are growing in value faster than the amount I'm taking out each year!

Now, THAT's a real problem!    We feel your pain!

(Imagine a "Cue the Tiny Violins Gif.")  :)

[Sibley]

Ouch. Mine won't be that high, though I do need to add insulation in the attic.

I assume you have old wood windows? Storms may be cheaper, and properly maintained wood windows last longer than vinyl.

Can confirm. My 100 year old house has seen its share of Minnesota winters. The original windows with 1980s storms are going strong; the 2000s-era vinyl replacements are on their last legs. (Although I did have the originals retrofitted with modern sliders as several of the ropes of the weight-and-pulley system had broken.)

Does anyone know if it's possible to put original-style wooden windows BACK?

Yes, you can get NEW wooden windows that are the old style. They cost a lot though. And then they will need the regular maintenance and upkeep, so unless you can do that don't bother.

[ixtap]

Maxed one BoA card for online shopping due to donations. The other one was changed to a new category before we realized that. Anytime DH talks about buying something, I remind him that we aren't doing any online shopping until at least March 1, when I can change the category again.

[sui generis]

We got the debit card in the mail from the most recent pandemic relief bill.  With me having no income since I'm FIREd, we managed to qualify for something like $170.  DH decided that he will just use it grocery shopping instead of transferring to bank account or whatever and so this is going to mess up my expenses tracking because there is a 99% chance I will forget to get the receipt from him to include in our spreadsheet and groceries will look artificially low.  By the time I realize it's missing, the receipt will probably already be recycled. 

This is not only an MPP, but is also a problem of being old enough to know I'll probably forget something by the time the critical moment arrives, but that not being good enough to make the ol' memory work.  If I can figure out what day he's going shopping, I'll try to remember(!) to put a note on my calendar that will remind me to get the receipt from him right away..

[Taran Wanderer]

Our monthly “bills” are too high.

• 401k
• 403b
• Roth IRAs
• 529s
• Taxable account
• Short term savings

We can’t afford ridiculous luxuries because of all these “bills”...

[BicycleB]

Our monthly “bills” are too high.

• 401k
• 403b
• Roth IRAs
• 529s
• Taxable account
• Short term savings

We can’t afford ridiculous luxuries because of all these “bills”...

@Taran Wanderer, you have a diverse portfolio of excuses for not spending!

[Just Joe]

For those with drafty houses. Look up a draft pen. Normally used in conjunction with a blower door which pressurizes the house slightly. Saw one in use on an early episode of "This Old House" over the weekend. Pretty neat. Maybe a cigar or incense stick might do the same job. YT has alot of videos on the subject naturally.

[NumberJohnny5]

We got the debit card in the mail from the most recent pandemic relief bill.  With me having no income since I'm FIREd, we managed to qualify for something like $170.  DH decided that he will just use it grocery shopping instead of transferring to bank account or whatever and so this is going to mess up my expenses tracking because there is a 99% chance I will forget to get the receipt from him to include in our spreadsheet and groceries will look artificially low.  By the time I realize it's missing, the receipt will probably already be recycled. 

This is not only an MPP, but is also a problem of being old enough to know I'll probably forget something by the time the critical moment arrives, but that not being good enough to make the ol' memory work.  If I can figure out what day he's going shopping, I'll try to remember(!) to put a note on my calendar that will remind me to get the receipt from him right away..

If it's going to be 100% used for groceries, just go ahead and put a $170 expense for groceries on your spreadsheet. If it's really important to get an accurate weekly spend, then check the card balance once a week, say Saturday night after all spending is done for the week (unless he's out buying groceries, obviously). Now, there's a chance that a purchase will be pending but not yet posted, but you can simply check the available balance vs what the available balance was the last week. If it went down $35, then put $35 under groceries for that week. Personally, I'd just take the easy way out and deduct $170 on day one, it'll average out in the end.

[DeniseNJ]

Our monthly “bills” are too high.

• 401k
• 403b
• Roth IRAs
• 529s
• Taxable account
• Short term savings

We can’t afford ridiculous luxuries because of all these “bills”...

YES, this! I swept a bunch of money into online savings accounts from our checking acct. Then I wanted to look at used cars this weekend, but I felt like maybe we can't afford to buy a car right now since we have so little money. Um, we still have the same money, it just isn't sitting in our regular checking acct. But for some reason, and since these savings acct aren't super easily accessible, I feel broke. It's an Ally savings acct and it takes several days to transfer over so I can't just go to an ATM or bank and take out 3K if I need it.

I used to be broke all the time before MMM and have cc bills too. Now if I don't have $10K immediately available I feel lost. So dumb.

[Monerexia]

Our monthly “bills” are too high.

• 401k
• 403b
• Roth IRAs
• 529s
• Taxable account
• Short term savings

We can’t afford ridiculous luxuries because of all these “bills”...

YES, this! I swept a bunch of money into online savings accounts from our checking acct. Then I wanted to look at used cars this weekend, but I felt like maybe we can't afford to buy a car right now since we have so little money. Um, we still have the same money, it just isn't sitting in our regular checking acct. But for some reason, and since these savings acct aren't super easily accessible, I feel broke. It's an Ally savings acct and it takes several days to transfer over so I can't just go to an ATM or bank and take out 3K if I need it.

I used to be broke all the time before MMM and have cc bills too. Now if I don't have $10K immediately available I feel lost. So dumb.

Yes I used to wonder why I felt so stupid and.embarrassed when shopping for clothes, browsing car lots for cars, motorcycles and so forth. Now I realize that feeling was..."intuition."

[Alternatepriorities]

Our monthly “bills” are too high.

• 401k
• 403b
• Roth IRAs
• 529s
• Taxable account
• Short term savings

We can’t afford ridiculous luxuries because of all these “bills”...

YES, this! I swept a bunch of money into online savings accounts from our checking acct. Then I wanted to look at used cars this weekend, but I felt like maybe we can't afford to buy a car right now since we have so little money. Um, we still have the same money, it just isn't sitting in our regular checking acct. But for some reason, and since these savings acct aren't super easily accessible, I feel broke. It's an Ally savings acct and it takes several days to transfer over so I can't just go to an ATM or bank and take out 3K if I need it.

I used to be broke all the time before MMM and have cc bills too. Now if I don't have $10K immediately available I feel lost. So dumb.

I've also noticed that if I put "spare" cash into my taxable vanguard account I/we don't want to spend it, but if I leave it sitting in the checking account it doesn't seem like as big of deal to spend it... Which is weird, because I really do believe money is fully fungible.

[Taran Wanderer]

I've also noticed that if I put "spare" cash into my taxable vanguard account I/we don't want to spend it, but if I leave it sitting in the checking account it doesn't seem like as big of deal to spend it... Which is weird, because I really do believe money is fully fungible.

Exactly! Isn’t the psychology of money fascinating?

[Green_Tea]

Idk what exactly you're wanting to track but investments aren't expenses in my book neither.

You might enjoy this collection of graphs for some more inspiration :)
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/show-off-your-excel-etc-graphs/msg2748344/#msg2748344

[SwordGuy]

While the author included income from dividends in his extensive examples, i can't find "investments" under the expenses categories.
Oversight? Hard to imagine, given the presence of some form of investment return on the income side. And clearly the money invested is not money going to the bank, waiting to be put to work.
If i do mark it down as expense, though, the gulf between income and expenses will look far worse than it would otherwise, which might demotivate me.

I thought of including a second, right-hand y-axis for total assets to alleviate the problem.

It really depends on what you're measuring.

For example, technically, the principal portion of a mortgage payment is a transfer of one asset (cash) to another asset (property equity).  So, from a net worth perspective it's not an expense, it's a transfer, like swapping stock for bonds and vice-versa.

From a monthly, "I've got to pay my bills!" cash flow perspective, it sure as hell IS an expense.   It's got to be paid.

So, what are you trying to measure?

For example:

How much are my monthly expenses changing?   
How much are my savings changing?   
How is my net worth changing?
How is my passive income changing?
How is my passive income compared to my planned FIRE expenses?

Different things will be included to properly answer those questions.

Decide on the question first.

[Dicey]

While the author included income from dividends in his extensive examples, i can't find "investments" under the expenses categories.
Oversight? Hard to imagine, given the presence of some form of investment return on the income side. And clearly the money invested is not money going to the bank, waiting to be put to work.
If i do mark it down as expense, though, the gulf between income and expenses will look far worse than it would otherwise, which might demotivate me.

I thought of including a second, right-hand y-axis for total assets to alleviate the problem.

It really depends on what you're measuring.

For example, technically, the principal portion of a mortgage payment is a transfer of one asset (cash) to another asset (property equity).  So, from a net worth perspective it's not an expense, it's a transfer, like swapping stock for bonds and vice-versa.

From a monthly, "I've got to pay my bills!" cash flow perspective, it sure as hell IS an expense.   It's got to be paid.

So, what are you trying to measure?

For example:

How much are my monthly expenses changing?   
How much are my savings changing?   
How is my net worth changing?
How is my passive income changing?
How is my passive income compared to my planned FIRE expenses?

Different things will be included to properly answer those questions.

Decide on the question first.

That's where the confusion with the authors intend starts for me. A mortgage is an expense (divided into shelter for paying it down and charges/interest) in his list of examples.
The property coming out at the other end does not find a place in the listing, again.

Since what's left over between expenses and income is considered savings, i suppose that's what my investment choices shall be in the chart to be created.

@Tinker, which edition are you reading? Joe D died relatively young and never owned his own home. He also lived  during a time when there was very little information on investing and higher fees/barriers to entry. His partner, Vicki Robin, has updated the original book in recent years.

Just like The Tightwad Gazette, the book is based on sound principles, but hasn't kept up with the times. Fortunately, YMOYL has been updated.

[LennStar]

An mortgage into a house can be seen as expense because it is a replacement of renting, it is money put into something that loses (well, should) worth every year instead of gains like an investment and causes following expenses.

But i still like the idea of a wall mounted graph with room for the next, say, 10-15 years heading into FI. Yes, on a wall in a room open to visitors. Why not, money matters making people uncomfortable is stupid.

It's stupid, but totally normal. It's like singing. If you can't do it (or just think you are bad at singing) you don't want others talk about you singing or see you. Same with your money management skills.

[markbike528CBX]

I always used to wonder why they would have an RMD in the first place, and why people would complain about it. Now that I've found MMM, and have started to save aggressively, it's all making sense now!

Here's your new best friend and a link to an interesting rabbit hole:

https://www.gocurrycracker.com/who-pays-no-taxes/

Two MMPs
1) We just put the 1040 etc in the mail, so I have no -thing to obsess about entertainment for a few months, as few 2021 tax-interesting things have happened yet.
2) In the 2020 taxes, we did not have enough taxes $109 to take full advantage of the tax break on a new high-efficiency furnace $150.

[RobertFromTX]

I finally did something right.

My 2019 income was too high to get the full stimulus payments at the time, but back in January 2020 I set my 401k and HSA deduction to the maximums. This lowered my taxable income for 2020 below the amount needed for the full stimulus payment.

So even though my real income was higher, because I reduced my taxable income I got a much larger than expect refund due to the credits related to under-stimulus payments.

Looks like I'll get to buy a little extra VTSAX this month :)

[fuzzy math]

I finally did something right.

My 2019 income was too high to get the full stimulus payments at the time, but back in January 2020 I set my 401k and HSA deduction to the maximums. This lowered my taxable income for 2020 below the amount needed for the full stimulus payment.

So even though my real income was higher, because I reduced my taxable income I got a much larger than expect refund due to the credits related to under-stimulus payments.

Looks like I'll get to buy a little extra VTSAX this month :)

This is not a problem in any sense of the word! I think your problem was that in 2019 you were not taking advantage of all your investment options and it cost you a 9 month delay in receiving a stimulus check.

My MPP is that I'm holding off on filing my 2020 taxes until I hear the terms of stimulus #3. It bothers me to have it sitting waiting this long...

[mr.moneybeard]

When I tell people I have half a million dollars they don't believe me because my clothes are 15 years old and my car is rusty!

[ixtap]

When I tell people I have half a million dollars they don't believe me because my clothes are 15 years old and my car is rusty!

Who are you telling you have half a million dollars and why? Even our parents only know a ballpark figure, and we wanted them to truly understand that they do not need to worry about us. FIL once asked if we had a million and all I said was "I haven't looked at the stock market this week." We really were in that ballpark, so it was an honest answer. Recently, he asked his son how much he makes and DH gave him a percentile, rather than a dollar amount. I really liked that answer because we have had the "what is rich" conversation with him and haven't been able to impression him how well off we consider ourselves. That isn't because he doesn't know the numbers, it is because being rich means something different to him.

[mr.moneybeard]

Who are you telling you have half a million dollars and why? Even our parents only know a ballpark figure, and we wanted them to truly understand that they do not need to worry about us. FIL once asked if we had a million and all I said was "I haven't looked at the stock market this week." We really were in that ballpark, so it was an honest answer. Recently, he asked his son how much he makes and DH gave him a percentile, rather than a dollar amount. I really liked that answer because we have had the "what is rich" conversation with him and haven't been able to impression him how well off we consider ourselves. That isn't because he doesn't know the numbers, it is because being rich means something different to him.

Oh just my pals, my brother, a guy at work, etc. Mainly in conversation where I'm telling them how awesome saving money is, lol. Like, "you wouldn't believe it I've only saved 25k each year of the last 10 and my networth is already at half a million! It's magic, you gotta start, you'd be surprised!"

[Dicey]

When I tell people I have half a million dollars they don't believe me because my clothes are 15 years old and my car is rusty!

Who are you telling you have half a million dollars and why?

Same question. Seriously, the power of Stealth Wealth is AMAZING. Once you give it up, it's gone forever. That's what this place is for. You might want to think of us as kind of a Fight Club, "The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club!"  It's safe to talk about money here, but not to the outside world, even if they are family. Perhaps especially if they are family.

[mr.moneybeard]

Same question. Seriously, the power of Stealth Wealth is AMAZING. Once you give it up, it's gone forever. That's what this place is for. You might want to think of us as kind of a Fight Club, "The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club!"  It's safe to talk about money here, but not to the outside world, even if they are family. Perhaps especially if they are family.

I LOVE that reference! I was mainly trying use it as a selling point as to why they should go ahead and start saving pre-tax! Both of those conversations, they were asking me how much I save / how I invest, etc.

[ixtap]

Same question. Seriously, the power of Stealth Wealth is AMAZING. Once you give it up, it's gone forever. That's what this place is for. You might want to think of us as kind of a Fight Club, "The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club!"  It's safe to talk about money here, but not to the outside world, even if they are family. Perhaps especially if they are family.

I LOVE that reference! I was mainly trying use it as a selling point as to why they should go ahead and start saving pre-tax! Both of those conversations, they were asking me how much I save / how I invest, etc.

These questions can be answered in percentages, etc. Frankly, a half million means little out of context.

[mr.moneybeard]

These questions can be answered in percentages, etc. Frankly, a half million means little out of context.

Sure to you it is out of context but to the people I said it to it was in context because they know me, and my profession/salary. I've tried explaining things with percentages to people who have never invested before and their eyes glaze over. 11% 17% 32% huh? All arbitrary numbers to them, half a million is easy and concrete for them to understand.

[Taran Wanderer]

I think we should talk about it. People need to know what the possibilities are. How do they change their ways if they don’t see the benefits?

[NumberJohnny5]

On an individual level, it's best to not let people know that you have more money than them, even if you're trying to educate them on how they can be more like you. On a societal level, it's better to be more open about finances so we can all learn from each other.

I'm selfish, so I mostly keep quiet about how well we're doing, except for a literal few people (even then, we don't give the whole picture).

[mr.moneybeard]

I think we should talk about it. People need to know what the possibilities are. How do they change their ways if they don’t see the benefits?

Agreed! I don't like that money is such a taboo subject. I've always talked about it, even when I had none. Talking to my boss as a 16 year old about his net worth, exactly what he made per year, his investments, etc... that was one of the big things that helped get me here.

[Dicey]

I think we should talk about it. People need to know what the possibilities are. How do they change their ways if they don’t see the benefits?

Agreed! I don't like that money is such a taboo subject. I've always talked about it, even when I had none. Talking to my boss as a 16 year old about his net worth, exactly what he made per year, his investments, etc... that was one of the big things that helped get me here.

I talk about finances, particularly as it relates to early retirement, to anyone who has half an interest. I NEVER tell them how much money I have. Only you guys. Sorta.

[Dicey]

@Tinker, which edition are you reading? Joe D died relatively young and never owned his own home. He also lived  during a time when there was very little information on investing and higher fees/barriers to entry. His partner, Vicki Robin, has updated the original book in recent years.

Just like The Tightwad Gazette, the book is based on sound principles, but hasn't kept up with the times. Fortunately, YMOYL has been updated.

Revised 2008. With exception of the advise on investments, i think the book has aged well.
Nothing new to a reader of MMM, but nice to have some outside/foundational sources regardless.
Plus i did enjoy crafting my wall graph artifact. First record of my journey to FI(RE) outside of bits and bytes.

The latest edition came out in 2018, IIRC. It was a major rewrite. Funny, just yesterday, DH and I were checking out the SS website and downloading our lifetime earnings.  Reminded me of YMOYL.

[dragoncar]

I think we should talk about it. People need to know what the possibilities are. How do they change their ways if they don’t see the benefits?

Agreed! I don't like that money is such a taboo subject. I've always talked about it, even when I had none. Talking to my boss as a 16 year old about his net worth, exactly what he made per year, his investments, etc... that was one of the big things that helped get me here.

I talk about finances, particularly as it relates to early retirement, to anyone who has half an interest. I NEVER tell them how much money I have. Only you guys. Sorta.

I don't like to use raw numbers either but if anyone is paying attention it's painfully obvious.  I don't work.  My home purchase price is public information.  Estimate my lifestyle expenses and multiply by 25 to get my approximate (minimum) net worth.

If anything, people will probably overestimate my NW assuming I spend more than I do (I pretty much only spend money when I find a great deal).  I've had ex-coworkers try to be subtle like "I remember you were talking about bitcoin way back in the day, did you ever end up buying some?"   For the record, no i never bought bitcoin although maybe I'd be super rich if I followed that lark to throw $5k at it really early on (I've got like $10k in coin lost to the data demons on an old hard drive somewhere)

[merula]

My MPP: I'm close to the two comma club according to Personal Capital, but I can't really appreciate it because I think Zillow is overvaluing my house by probably 30%, so it doesn't feel real.

But then at some point I'm going to hit, like, 1.07m, and that's not going to feel like a meaningful accomplishment either.

[TomTX]

My MPP: I'm close to the two comma club according to Personal Capital, but I can't really appreciate it because I think Zillow is overvaluing my house by probably 30%, so it doesn't feel real.

But then at some point I'm going to hit, like, 1.07m, and that's not going to feel like a meaningful accomplishment either.

Based on reports I'm hearing around Austin - my house probably added 30% in value over the past year. Possibly more. Listing prices alone for nearby properties would make me think 25-30% - but I keep reading laments on Reddit from house-hunters who are getting outbid by a significant margin despite making ~$50k, all-cash offers on just about anything that comes on the market. One RE agent was telling me about a house that was listed $50k above recent comps, her client bid the $50k above listing price, all cash. Same day had an offer for $80k above listing.

Lots of big tech companies moving from the Bay Area to Austin along with the employees making FAANG-like salaries, and houses simply aren't being built at an appreciable rate. Bidding $600k on what was a $450k house a year ago doesn't phase them - they're used to houses half the size going for twice the price.

I guess that's my MPP today: I'm probably at least $50k off on any net worth calculation I do.

[Plina]

My MPP: I'm close to the two comma club according to Personal Capital, but I can't really appreciate it because I think Zillow is overvaluing my house by probably 30%, so it doesn't feel real.

But then at some point I'm going to hit, like, 1.07m, and that's not going to feel like a meaningful accomplishment either.

Based on reports I'm hearing around Austin - my house probably added 30% in value over the past year. Possibly more. Listing prices alone for nearby properties would make me think 25-30% - but I keep reading laments on Reddit from house-hunters who are getting outbid by a significant margin despite making ~$50k, all-cash offers on just about anything that comes on the market. One RE agent was telling me about a house that was listed $50k above recent comps, her client bid the $50k above listing price, all cash. Same day had an offer for $80k above listing.

Lots of big tech companies moving from the Bay Area to Austin along with the employees making FAANG-like salaries, and houses simply aren't being built at an appreciable rate. Bidding $600k on what was a $450k house a year ago doesn't phase them - they're used to houses half the size going for twice the price.

I guess that's my MPP today: I'm probably at least $50k off on any net worth calculation I do.

I am contemplating moving closer to my family to a smaller town and I can double the size of my apartment for cheaper then my current apartment. This size would cost less than half in the city center. I could also buy a house for basically the same cost in the city center, while I can’t afford a house here in a neighbourhood were I want to live. I would need to move out to the suburbs and I would still have to pay a lot more than I want. So I totally understand the sentiment that prices that seems crazy for a local seems cheap for somesome from the outside.

To buy this apartment I paid 15000 USD over the list price to get it before the official viewing. I signed the papers about two hours after seeing it. I had not time to see a lot of apartments as I needed one asap so I looked at three apartments in close approximity to the one other with 30 minutes between in a neighbourhood were I could see myself living. I calculated that I would save the commission to the realtor in a year instead of paying absurd rents by subletting so after that period I could sell and buy another if I didn’t like this.

[fuzzy math]

My MPP: I'm close to the two comma club according to Personal Capital, but I can't really appreciate it because I think Zillow is overvaluing my house by probably 30%, so it doesn't feel real.

But then at some point I'm going to hit, like, 1.07m, and that's not going to feel like a meaningful accomplishment either.

I don't list my home in personal capital for this reason. Your net worth isn't super helpful for an asset that you can't easily cash out. Would you feel more accomplished if you deleted it and waited to hit it in $1MM of investments?

However I will say that I live in a small city in the midwest and am in the process of selling home for $50k more than it appraised for in Jan 2020 when I refinanced. I thought my Zillow estimate was nuts too, and my realtor gave me a big speech about how they're not accurate, but the 7 offers on my home spoke otherwise.