Author Topic: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)  (Read 3132850 times)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6300 on: April 30, 2019, 12:00:37 PM »
In 1984, it was the government listening in to what was said in your house, with the purpose of arresting you and reprogramming you think differently. Moderne spying devices from facebook, google, apple, etc work by detailed algorithms who try to discover your patterns, to give you personalized content and commercials. You won't get arrested for it. But I do agree that it is pretty scary. As soon as I ever google once on some subject, facebook starts showing me adds about that subject for a long time...
Unfortunately, it's a bit more insidious than that.  It doesn't only affect what ads you see, but it also affects what prices you see.  Amazon, specifically, has been caught showing different prices to different users.  All that data can/will be used to maximize their profit from you.

kanga1622

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6301 on: April 30, 2019, 12:06:40 PM »
See? This is why biweekly salary is confusing and silly for workers with an annual salary.* The number if work hours is never going to be exactly the same due to weekends, Leap Years, etc, and the fact that there aren't an even number of weeks in a year means that the paycycle will be off sometimes. Different companies are going to deal with all these problems different ways and none of them make much sense, even if you do technically get all the pay you're owed eventually.

The whole point of being salaried and exempt from overtime is not have to worry about time worked down to this level of detail.

*I can definitely see the benefits of keeping the paycycle an even number of days for hourly workers, though.

Hourly employee here. Believe it or not, I'd like monthly paychecks as well. Literally all of my obligations are paid on a monthly basis, and I'm tired of the headache of my paychecks moving to whatever flippin' day of the month they feel like being on. I'd rather just get all my money on one day, and blast the auto pay to everyone a couple days after and just be done with it.

(I would also accept being paid on two set days of the month like the 1st and 15th or whatever).

DH and I work for the same employer. We get paid once a month on the last working day of the month. Then we push through payments to all the utilities, mortgage, savings, etc and leave the budgeted spending amounts in the checking account for use throughout the month. We致e been on this pay cycle for over a dozen years and I love it! DH has a side hustle right now that pays every two weeks and I forget when those paydays are since they are constantly changing. Good thing that income is moved into an IRA so we don稚 really have to worry too much about the exact date it hits - just transfer at the end of the month. 

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6302 on: April 30, 2019, 01:06:01 PM »
Quote
If I知 visiting your house, we値l have a boring day if we play board games, but a great one if we rake the leaves and dig some trenches for an irrigation system.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/09/20/seek-not-to-be-entertained/

Last night my wife and I stayed with one of her coworkers in another town. There was wine and conversation inside and a pile of unsplit firewood outside... I'm really not antisocial just "different". Our hostess does appreciate it.

Loren Ver

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6303 on: April 30, 2019, 01:28:49 PM »
Quote
If I知 visiting your house, we値l have a boring day if we play board games, but a great one if we rake the leaves and dig some trenches for an irrigation system.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/09/20/seek-not-to-be-entertained/

Last night my wife and I stayed with one of her coworkers in another town. There was wine and conversation inside and a pile of unsplit firewood outside... I'm really not antisocial just "different". Our hostess does appreciate it.

Haha.  This really made me smile.  My DH is similar he would rather be doing than "visiting".

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6304 on: April 30, 2019, 01:33:57 PM »
Unfortunately, it's a bit more insidious than that.  It doesn't only affect what ads you see, but it also affects what prices you see.  Amazon, specifically, has been caught showing different prices to different users.  All that data can/will be used to maximize their profit from you.

Hint: Don't go online-shopping on an Apple product.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6305 on: April 30, 2019, 01:57:02 PM »
Quote
If I知 visiting your house, we値l have a boring day if we play board games, but a great one if we rake the leaves and dig some trenches for an irrigation system.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/09/20/seek-not-to-be-entertained/

Last night my wife and I stayed with one of her coworkers in another town. There was wine and conversation inside and a pile of unsplit firewood outside... I'm really not antisocial just "different". Our hostess does appreciate it.

Haha.  This really made me smile.  My DH is similar he would rather be doing than "visiting".
Heh, I resemble this remark!

Hirondelle

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6306 on: April 30, 2019, 02:13:29 PM »
On this forum I regularly post financial information and my home currency is euro. However, I bought my current computer while living abroad and somehow it does not have a euro sign (). I've tried virtually every 'how to get a euro sign on my keyboard' sign but still haven't found one that works. As posting in $ feels inaccurate I have to either copy-paste the euro sign from an old post of myself (e.g. in the race threads this is easy) or to go to Google, type in euro sign and copy paste it from there.

The effort I do to keep my financial info accurate here..

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6307 on: April 30, 2019, 03:46:07 PM »
On this forum I regularly post financial information and my home currency is euro. However, I bought my current computer while living abroad and somehow it does not have a euro sign (). I've tried virtually every 'how to get a euro sign on my keyboard' sign but still haven't found one that works. As posting in $ feels inaccurate I have to either copy-paste the euro sign from an old post of myself (e.g. in the race threads this is easy) or to go to Google, type in euro sign and copy paste it from there.

The effort I do to keep my financial info accurate here..

Which OS is this?  There痴 definitely a way

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6308 on: April 30, 2019, 04:05:58 PM »
Quote
If I知 visiting your house, we値l have a boring day if we play board games, but a great one if we rake the leaves and dig some trenches for an irrigation system.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/09/20/seek-not-to-be-entertained/

Last night my wife and I stayed with one of her coworkers in another town. There was wine and conversation inside and a pile of unsplit firewood outside... I'm really not antisocial just "different". Our hostess does appreciate it.

Haha.  This really made me smile.  My DH is similar he would rather be doing than "visiting".

That痴 a great way to put it.

APowers

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6309 on: April 30, 2019, 06:43:04 PM »
On this forum I regularly post financial information and my home currency is euro. However, I bought my current computer while living abroad and somehow it does not have a euro sign (). I've tried virtually every 'how to get a euro sign on my keyboard' sign but still haven't found one that works. As posting in $ feels inaccurate I have to either copy-paste the euro sign from an old post of myself (e.g. in the race threads this is easy) or to go to Google, type in euro sign and copy paste it from there.

The effort I do to keep my financial info accurate here..

Which OS is this?  There痴 definitely a way

Press and hold the alt key. Then type 0128. Then release the alt key. Boom.

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6310 on: April 30, 2019, 07:01:23 PM »
On this forum I regularly post financial information and my home currency is euro. However, I bought my current computer while living abroad and somehow it does not have a euro sign (). I've tried virtually every 'how to get a euro sign on my keyboard' sign but still haven't found one that works. As posting in $ feels inaccurate I have to either copy-paste the euro sign from an old post of myself (e.g. in the race threads this is easy) or to go to Google, type in euro sign and copy paste it from there.

The effort I do to keep my financial info accurate here..

Which OS is this?  There痴 definitely a way

Press and hold the alt key. Then type 0128. Then release the alt key. Boom.

AFAIK this only works with a numpad and there could be easier ways based on the Os.  On windows 10, eg you can switch to the international keyboard and right alt+5

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6311 on: April 30, 2019, 10:40:18 PM »
Alexa: I read 1984. Besides, when we lived aboard, as Alexa gained in popularity, our home internet consisted of 1 or 2 GB each on our cheap phone plans.
I love this!   Biggest reason I will never have a smart home.   But so few people have read 1984, I rarely use that reference.  People don't understand that Alexa is always 'listening', and there aren't adequate privacy rules.  Plus, I don't want to hand my security over to a third party.

I won稚 have an Alexa or similar device in my house. A friend and I recently had a very creepy experience at her house when her Alexa self-activated (we hadn稚 said 鄭lexa) in the middle of our convo.

I also don稚 understand why someone would want a TV with a built-in camera. Isn稚 that a telescreen?

Agreed, I feel the same about Siri and Ok Google.
OTOH,  our water heater is so far from the kitchen that it takes forever to get hot water, so we have a [very expensive] recirculation pump that is connected to a timer. Problem is, I'm FIRE and don't follow a predictable schedule. Our kid gave us that google hockey puck and installed it near the kitchen. Now I just okay Google to turn the hot water on. This reduces the amount of time the recirc pump operates, saving $. My MPP is remembering to tell it to turn the water off.

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6312 on: May 01, 2019, 12:06:10 AM »
Alexa: I read 1984. Besides, when we lived aboard, as Alexa gained in popularity, our home internet consisted of 1 or 2 GB each on our cheap phone plans.
I love this!   Biggest reason I will never have a smart home.   But so few people have read 1984, I rarely use that reference.  People don't understand that Alexa is always 'listening', and there aren't adequate privacy rules.  Plus, I don't want to hand my security over to a third party.

I won稚 have an Alexa or similar device in my house. A friend and I recently had a very creepy experience at her house when her Alexa self-activated (we hadn稚 said 鄭lexa) in the middle of our convo.

I also don稚 understand why someone would want a TV with a built-in camera. Isn稚 that a telescreen?

Agreed, I feel the same about Siri and Ok Google.
OTOH,  our water heater is so far from the kitchen that it takes forever to get hot water, so we have a [very expensive] recirculation pump that is connected to a timer. Problem is, I'm FIRE and don't follow a predictable schedule. Our kid gave us that google hockey puck and installed it near the kitchen. Now I just okay Google to turn the hot water on. This reduces the amount of time the recirc pump operates, saving $. My MPP is remembering to tell it to turn the water off.

Look into IFTTT.  I don't personally use it, but it should theoretically be able to turn the pump back off after a certain amount of time.  Or like it could be part of the program when you leave the house. 

Hirondelle

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6313 on: May 01, 2019, 12:16:02 AM »
On this forum I regularly post financial information and my home currency is euro. However, I bought my current computer while living abroad and somehow it does not have a euro sign (). I've tried virtually every 'how to get a euro sign on my keyboard' sign but still haven't found one that works. As posting in $ feels inaccurate I have to either copy-paste the euro sign from an old post of myself (e.g. in the race threads this is easy) or to go to Google, type in euro sign and copy paste it from there.

The effort I do to keep my financial info accurate here..

Which OS is this?  There痴 definitely a way

Press and hold the alt key. Then type 0128. Then release the alt key. Boom.

AFAIK this only works with a numpad and there could be easier ways based on the Os.  On windows 10, eg you can switch to the international keyboard and right alt+5

THANK YOU! You've basically solved all my problems now. I never realized that my laptop simply didn't have my native language installed, neither as a language nor the keyboard. I used the alt + 5 thing on my previous laptop and I could never figure out why it didn't work on this one. Now I can talk about . And I can add dts 疣d ther things n ltters 瀏稱n :).

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6314 on: May 01, 2019, 01:27:15 AM »

THANK YOU! You've basically solved all my problems now. I never realized that my laptop simply didn't have my native language installed, neither as a language nor the keyboard. I used the alt + 5 thing on my previous laptop and I could never figure out why it didn't work on this one. Now I can talk about . And I can add dts 疣d ther things n ltters 瀏稱n :).

lcome

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6315 on: May 01, 2019, 08:20:39 AM »
Payday was yesterday. I checked our balances and called my wife from my work desk to whisper "The money, it piles up so fast..."

It isn't that we make that much money, its just that we don't spend that much money.

And I can't tell anyone but her and you folks.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6316 on: May 01, 2019, 08:23:29 AM »

THANK YOU! You've basically solved all my problems now. I never realized that my laptop simply didn't have my native language installed, neither as a language nor the keyboard. I used the alt + 5 thing on my previous laptop and I could never figure out why it didn't work on this one. Now I can talk about . And I can add dts 疣d ther things n ltters 瀏稱n :).

lcome

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6317 on: May 01, 2019, 08:43:46 AM »
Alexa: I read 1984. Besides, when we lived aboard, as Alexa gained in popularity, our home internet consisted of 1 or 2 GB each on our cheap phone plans.
I love this!   Biggest reason I will never have a smart home.   But so few people have read 1984, I rarely use that reference.  People don't understand that Alexa is always 'listening', and there aren't adequate privacy rules.  Plus, I don't want to hand my security over to a third party.

I won稚 have an Alexa or similar device in my house. A friend and I recently had a very creepy experience at her house when her Alexa self-activated (we hadn稚 said 鄭lexa) in the middle of our convo.

I also don稚 understand why someone would want a TV with a built-in camera. Isn稚 that a telescreen?

Agreed, I feel the same about Siri and Ok Google.
OTOH,  our water heater is so far from the kitchen that it takes forever to get hot water, so we have a [very expensive] recirculation pump that is connected to a timer. Problem is, I'm FIRE and don't follow a predictable schedule. Our kid gave us that google hockey puck and installed it near the kitchen. Now I just okay Google to turn the hot water on. This reduces the amount of time the recirc pump operates, saving $. My MPP is remembering to tell it to turn the water off.

Look into IFTTT.  I don't personally use it, but it should theoretically be able to turn the pump back off after a certain amount of time.  Or like it could be part of the program when you leave the house.

You could also retrofit the recirculation pump to be a push-button based system. Then you push a button, it pumps water until there's hot water in the loop, and promptly shuts off. Traditional push-button systems would require wiring from the button to the pump, but it sounds like your pump is connected to the wireless network. Maybe you could find a wireless button + thermocouple solution.

Loren Ver

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6318 on: May 01, 2019, 08:54:37 AM »
Alexa: I read 1984. Besides, when we lived aboard, as Alexa gained in popularity, our home internet consisted of 1 or 2 GB each on our cheap phone plans.
I love this!   Biggest reason I will never have a smart home.   But so few people have read 1984, I rarely use that reference.  People don't understand that Alexa is always 'listening', and there aren't adequate privacy rules.  Plus, I don't want to hand my security over to a third party.

I won稚 have an Alexa or similar device in my house. A friend and I recently had a very creepy experience at her house when her Alexa self-activated (we hadn稚 said 鄭lexa) in the middle of our convo.

I also don稚 understand why someone would want a TV with a built-in camera. Isn稚 that a telescreen?

Agreed, I feel the same about Siri and Ok Google.
OTOH,  our water heater is so far from the kitchen that it takes forever to get hot water, so we have a [very expensive] recirculation pump that is connected to a timer. Problem is, I'm FIRE and don't follow a predictable schedule. Our kid gave us that google hockey puck and installed it near the kitchen. Now I just okay Google to turn the hot water on. This reduces the amount of time the recirc pump operates, saving $. My MPP is remembering to tell it to turn the water off.

Your MPP may be leading my down to a solution for my MPP!  My kitchen is far from my water heater so it takes a long time for water to get there.  Now i am looking into recirculating pumps and related systems....

Thanks!

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6319 on: May 01, 2019, 09:06:56 AM »
Alexa: I read 1984. Besides, when we lived aboard, as Alexa gained in popularity, our home internet consisted of 1 or 2 GB each on our cheap phone plans.
I love this!   Biggest reason I will never have a smart home.   But so few people have read 1984, I rarely use that reference.  People don't understand that Alexa is always 'listening', and there aren't adequate privacy rules.  Plus, I don't want to hand my security over to a third party.

I won稚 have an Alexa or similar device in my house. A friend and I recently had a very creepy experience at her house when her Alexa self-activated (we hadn稚 said 鄭lexa) in the middle of our convo.

I also don稚 understand why someone would want a TV with a built-in camera. Isn稚 that a telescreen?

Agreed, I feel the same about Siri and Ok Google.
OTOH,  our water heater is so far from the kitchen that it takes forever to get hot water, so we have a [very expensive] recirculation pump that is connected to a timer. Problem is, I'm FIRE and don't follow a predictable schedule. Our kid gave us that google hockey puck and installed it near the kitchen. Now I just okay Google to turn the hot water on. This reduces the amount of time the recirc pump operates, saving $. My MPP is remembering to tell it to turn the water off.

Look into IFTTT.  I don't personally use it, but it should theoretically be able to turn the pump back off after a certain amount of time.  Or like it could be part of the program when you leave the house.

I use IFTTT to run a couple of things.  The problem I've found is that there aren't very many really great ways to set a timer using it.  There are some hacky things like setting a google calendar event 30 minutes in the future and then using that event a trigger to turn it off.  I mainly use it to get emails from the house when things go wrong.  Power off, water leak, etc.  My house has an email address specifically for those kinds of notifications. 

Just Joe

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6320 on: May 01, 2019, 09:12:41 AM »
I use IFTTT to only charge my devices to about 80% which I've read makes the lithium battery age better.

Plug in a switched outlet, plug in my charger to that and then tell the software to switch off the outlet in an hour or two or several depending on the device.

Also, its a safety for my ebike charger. If I forget to unplug it, the timer will do that for me.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6321 on: May 01, 2019, 06:09:16 PM »
Payday was yesterday. I checked our balances and called my wife from my work desk to whisper "The money, it piles up so fast..."

It isn't that we make that much money, its just that we don't spend that much money.

And I can't tell anyone but her and you folks.

This made me snicker. Good job!

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6322 on: May 01, 2019, 06:50:48 PM »
I致e considered a heating loop, but it would never make financial sense given I only waste a few gallons of water waiting for it to get warm. I usually will try to repurpose that water for something else but it痴 not always possible.  Would be really nice to have a seconds drain that just goes outside to the plants

Trifele

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6323 on: May 02, 2019, 04:55:39 AM »
Payday was yesterday. I checked our balances and called my wife from my work desk to whisper "The money, it piles up so fast..."

It isn't that we make that much money, its just that we don't spend that much money.

And I can't tell anyone but her and you folks.

Love this! 

So true.  I was talking to my 82 year old dad the other day, and he was "complaining" (in a very MPP way) how the money piles up in his checking account until he remembers to shovel it out into investments and CDs a couple times a year.  His total income (SS and a tiny pension) is $1250 a month, and he's living on a lot less than that.  You rock, Dad.     

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6324 on: May 02, 2019, 06:43:39 AM »
Payday was yesterday. I checked our balances and called my wife from my work desk to whisper "The money, it piles up so fast..."

It isn't that we make that much money, its just that we don't spend that much money.

And I can't tell anyone but her and you folks.

Love this! 

So true.  I was talking to my 82 year old dad the other day, and he was "complaining" (in a very MPP way) how the money piles up in his checking account until he remembers to shovel it out into investments and CDs a couple times a year.  His total income (SS and a tiny pension) is $1250 a month, and he's living on a lot less than that.  You rock, Dad.     

What a great role model you have!

Just Joe

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6325 on: May 02, 2019, 08:38:43 AM »
So true.  I was talking to my 82 year old dad the other day, and he was "complaining" (in a very MPP way) how the money piles up in his checking account until he remembers to shovel it out into investments and CDs a couple times a year.  His total income (SS and a tiny pension) is $1250 a month, and he's living on a lot less than that.  You rock, Dad.     

What a great role model you have!

Yeah - your Dad is doing it right - savings even with a modest income.

Its crazy to ponder that with a little planning - and luck (lots of luck) - we will always have enough money to take care of at least life's basics b/c of savings, investments, etc. Still have to reach retirement but we can do that.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6326 on: May 02, 2019, 10:53:57 AM »
I致e considered a heating loop, but it would never make financial sense given I only waste a few gallons of water waiting for it to get warm. I usually will try to repurpose that water for something else but it痴 not always possible.  Would be really nice to have a seconds drain that just goes outside to the plants
I ran the numbers once, and it's way less waste than that, even.  Our furthest shower wastes about half a gallon waiting for hot water, and our house is not exactly small.

frugalnacho

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6327 on: May 02, 2019, 11:56:48 AM »
I致e considered a heating loop, but it would never make financial sense given I only waste a few gallons of water waiting for it to get warm. I usually will try to repurpose that water for something else but it痴 not always possible.  Would be really nice to have a seconds drain that just goes outside to the plants
I ran the numbers once, and it's way less waste than that, even.  Our furthest shower wastes about half a gallon waiting for hot water, and our house is not exactly small.

The waste doesn't concern me, it's the time wasted.  I have to run my kitchen faucet for like 3 full minutes before it gets hot.  It's insanely frustrating to have to use cold water, or if I really need it hot and it hasn't been used in hours I have to just leave it running and walk away so it can warm up.  I don't understand it either, because my kitchen sink is only like 20 feet away from the water heater in the basement.  I don't understand how it takes so long for hot water to make it's way up.  The shower is further but warms up much faster because it has a much higher flow rate, but that still takes a few minutes.  And it takes about 10 minutes for the pipes to be fully saturated so every shower is a game of finding the correct setting, then a minute later adjusting it slightly cooler as the hot water fraction of the stream has gotten much hotter, then a minute later adjusting it again.  Or I just blast full on hot water for a few minutes to saturate the line, then dial in the setting I want.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6328 on: May 02, 2019, 01:05:17 PM »

The waste doesn't concern me, it's the time wasted.  I have to run my kitchen faucet for like 3 full minutes before it gets hot.  It's insanely frustrating to have to use cold water, or if I really need it hot and it hasn't been used in hours I have to just leave it running and walk away so it can warm up.  I don't understand it either, because my kitchen sink is only like 20 feet away from the water heater in the basement.  I don't understand how it takes so long for hot water to make it's way up. 


Our old home had had a water filtration unit added into the water flow.  The hot water heater was at the back of the house, 10 ft from the kitchen sink.  The big filtration unit was added to the crawlspace in the front of the house.   So, the water was piped to the front of the house and then back to the kitchen.   Except before we moved in, the filtration unit had been removed.   The in and out pipes were joined up so the water still made that long trip.   Took us awhile to figure out what was going on.

Hope that helps!

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6329 on: May 02, 2019, 01:40:41 PM »
Payday was yesterday. I checked our balances and called my wife from my work desk to whisper "The money, it piles up so fast..."

It isn't that we make that much money, its just that we don't spend that much money.

And I can't tell anyone but her and you folks.

This made me snicker. Good job!

I had that exact same thing a few days ago when I reached 10k! Could only celebrate that with my partner and on MMM.

My MPP: my senior coworkers, who make 2-3 times as much as I do, often complain about how life is so expensive. I find it very hard to emphasize as I have half of my income left over at the end of the month and I earn the parttime equivalent of an average income.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6330 on: May 02, 2019, 04:20:51 PM »

The waste doesn't concern me, it's the time wasted.  I have to run my kitchen faucet for like 3 full minutes before it gets hot.  It's insanely frustrating to have to use cold water, or if I really need it hot and it hasn't been used in hours I have to just leave it running and walk away so it can warm up.  I don't understand it either, because my kitchen sink is only like 20 feet away from the water heater in the basement.  I don't understand how it takes so long for hot water to make it's way up. 


Our old home had had a water filtration unit added into the water flow.  The hot water heater was at the back of the house, 10 ft from the kitchen sink.  The big filtration unit was added to the crawlspace in the front of the house.   So, the water was piped to the front of the house and then back to the kitchen.   Except before we moved in, the filtration unit had been removed.   The in and out pipes were joined up so the water still made that long trip.   Took us awhile to figure out what was going on.

Hope that helps!
Wow, and I thought my house was plumbed stupid!

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6331 on: May 03, 2019, 01:44:10 AM »
I致e considered a heating loop, but it would never make financial sense given I only waste a few gallons of water waiting for it to get warm. I usually will try to repurpose that water for something else but it痴 not always possible.  Would be really nice to have a seconds drain that just goes outside to the plants
The heating loop is likely to be much worse considering the amount of energy needed to keep the loop at safe temperature (you don't want it too low because of legionnaires disease).

It's probably better to add a small boiler which is filled by the main. Instant hot water without much loss if it's properly insulated.

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6332 on: May 03, 2019, 04:43:05 AM »
I致e considered a heating loop, but it would never make financial sense given I only waste a few gallons of water waiting for it to get warm. I usually will try to repurpose that water for something else but it痴 not always possible.  Would be really nice to have a seconds drain that just goes outside to the plants
I ran the numbers once, and it's way less waste than that, even.  Our furthest shower wastes about half a gallon waiting for hot water, and our house is not exactly small.

The waste doesn't concern me, it's the time wasted.  I have to run my kitchen faucet for like 3 full minutes before it gets hot.  It's insanely frustrating to have to use cold water, or if I really need it hot and it hasn't been used in hours I have to just leave it running and walk away so it can warm up.  I don't understand it either, because my kitchen sink is only like 20 feet away from the water heater in the basement.  I don't understand how it takes so long for hot water to make it's way up.  The shower is further but warms up much faster because it has a much higher flow rate, but that still takes a few minutes.  And it takes about 10 minutes for the pipes to be fully saturated so every shower is a game of finding the correct setting, then a minute later adjusting it slightly cooler as the hot water fraction of the stream has gotten much hotter, then a minute later adjusting it again.  Or I just blast full on hot water for a few minutes to saturate the line, then dial in the setting I want.

Try a thermostatic valve at the shower.  They aren稚 exactly cheap but it痴 really nice to set and forget the temp

Just Joe

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6333 on: May 03, 2019, 08:51:34 AM »
Insulate the pipes?

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6334 on: May 03, 2019, 09:16:28 AM »
Insulate the pipes?
That unfortunately doesn't address the issue, which is the energy required to heat up those pipes.  Insulation reduces the energy lost *while* you're taking a shower, and (in theory) will reduce how much hot water you need, but it won't reduce the time to get hot water or the gradual shift in water temperature as the pipes heat up.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6335 on: May 03, 2019, 09:53:12 AM »
I致e considered a heating loop, but it would never make financial sense given I only waste a few gallons of water waiting for it to get warm. I usually will try to repurpose that water for something else but it痴 not always possible.  Would be really nice to have a seconds drain that just goes outside to the plants
I ran the numbers once, and it's way less waste than that, even.  Our furthest shower wastes about half a gallon waiting for hot water, and our house is not exactly small.

The waste doesn't concern me, it's the time wasted.  I have to run my kitchen faucet for like 3 full minutes before it gets hot.  It's insanely frustrating to have to use cold water, or if I really need it hot and it hasn't been used in hours I have to just leave it running and walk away so it can warm up.  I don't understand it either, because my kitchen sink is only like 20 feet away from the water heater in the basement.  I don't understand how it takes so long for hot water to make it's way up.  The shower is further but warms up much faster because it has a much higher flow rate, but that still takes a few minutes.  And it takes about 10 minutes for the pipes to be fully saturated so every shower is a game of finding the correct setting, then a minute later adjusting it slightly cooler as the hot water fraction of the stream has gotten much hotter, then a minute later adjusting it again.  Or I just blast full on hot water for a few minutes to saturate the line, then dial in the setting I want.

 I had a house with the water heater in the basement, there was an extra pipe that went up to the kitchen faucet, this return line went to the bottom of the water heater. it was a gravity system, the hot water rose causing the water to circulate. I always had hot water at the kitchen faucet it worked very well. Here is an example, although it shows several faucets connected, I only had one.
See the picture here;
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/123464/makewater-heater-gravity-feed
Search term--water heater gravity recirculation line
 Lots of examples.

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6336 on: May 03, 2019, 10:36:08 AM »
In our townhouse, the sink that gets hot water the quickest is the half bath. Since we rent, we will do nothing about it, but I am now curious about how much water it takes at each location.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6337 on: May 03, 2019, 12:12:54 PM »
We bought a house last year. After we moved in I discovered they had plumbed hot water to the toilets! It's common to add a small amount of hot water to the cold water to prevent the tank from sweating because water comes out of the ground at less than 40 degrees here. Straight hot water is a new one though. MPP: I'd have to completely redo the plumbing and tear a lot of sheet rock out to fix it. The energy savings would never justify the expense or the materials used but it breaks my heart a little every time I flush hot water down the drain...

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6338 on: May 03, 2019, 12:46:05 PM »
Insulate the pipes?
That unfortunately doesn't address the issue, which is the energy required to heat up those pipes.  Insulation reduces the energy lost *while* you're taking a shower, and (in theory) will reduce how much hot water you need, but it won't reduce the time to get hot water or the gradual shift in water temperature as the pipes heat up.

It may not make a noticeable difference, but insulated pipes will definitely heat up faster with less total energy

Imagine trying to heat an uninsulated house vs an insulated one.  We could do the math, but our instincts tell us that we need the energy to heat the thermal mass itself, PLUS the energy to replace what was radiated during the time it took to heat the thermal mass. 


NorCal

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6339 on: May 03, 2019, 01:15:04 PM »
I致e considered a heating loop, but it would never make financial sense given I only waste a few gallons of water waiting for it to get warm. I usually will try to repurpose that water for something else but it痴 not always possible.  Would be really nice to have a seconds drain that just goes outside to the plants
I ran the numbers once, and it's way less waste than that, even.  Our furthest shower wastes about half a gallon waiting for hot water, and our house is not exactly small.

The waste doesn't concern me, it's the time wasted.  I have to run my kitchen faucet for like 3 full minutes before it gets hot.  It's insanely frustrating to have to use cold water, or if I really need it hot and it hasn't been used in hours I have to just leave it running and walk away so it can warm up.  I don't understand it either, because my kitchen sink is only like 20 feet away from the water heater in the basement.  I don't understand how it takes so long for hot water to make it's way up.  The shower is further but warms up much faster because it has a much higher flow rate, but that still takes a few minutes.  And it takes about 10 minutes for the pipes to be fully saturated so every shower is a game of finding the correct setting, then a minute later adjusting it slightly cooler as the hot water fraction of the stream has gotten much hotter, then a minute later adjusting it again.  Or I just blast full on hot water for a few minutes to saturate the line, then dial in the setting I want.

 I had a house with the water heater in the basement, there was an extra pipe that went up to the kitchen faucet, this return line went to the bottom of the water heater. it was a gravity system, the hot water rose causing the water to circulate. I always had hot water at the kitchen faucet it worked very well. Here is an example, although it shows several faucets connected, I only had one.
See the picture here;
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/123464/makewater-heater-gravity-feed
Search term--water heater gravity recirculation line
 Lots of examples.

My house has a water circulating system.  I estimate it costs me $25-35/month in water heating.  It isn't cheap.  I wouldn't replace it if it ever came time to redo plumbing.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6340 on: May 03, 2019, 01:25:11 PM »
Insulate the pipes?
That unfortunately doesn't address the issue, which is the energy required to heat up those pipes.  Insulation reduces the energy lost *while* you're taking a shower, and (in theory) will reduce how much hot water you need, but it won't reduce the time to get hot water or the gradual shift in water temperature as the pipes heat up.

It may not make a noticeable difference, but insulated pipes will definitely heat up faster with less total energy

Imagine trying to heat an uninsulated house vs an insulated one.  We could do the math, but our instincts tell us that we need the energy to heat the thermal mass itself, PLUS the energy to replace what was radiated during the time it took to heat the thermal mass.

Where it might be noticeable is in the time it takes for the water to cool off again. I could see insulating the pipes reducing the percentage of times when you need to wait for the water to warm up. Especially in the kitchen where hot water is used intermittently throughout cooking and then cleaning up.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6341 on: May 03, 2019, 05:16:52 PM »
Our hot water heater is way on one end of a long narrow house, and both kitchens are at the other end.  Fortunately the main bathroom and the laundry and close to the hot water.

We insulated all the hot water pipes throughout the house, but other than that we just run the hot for awhile before running the dishwasher.  It's annoying, but probably less expensive than trying to fix it.  Especially since our water is from a well and our hot water is essentially free from out geothermal system.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6342 on: May 03, 2019, 05:21:32 PM »
Our hot water heater is way on one end of a long narrow house, and both kitchens are at the other end.  Fortunately the main bathroom and the laundry and close to the hot water.

We insulated all the hot water pipes throughout the house, but other than that we just run the hot for awhile before running the dishwasher.  It's annoying, but probably less expensive than trying to fix it.  Especially since our water is from a well and our hot water is essentially free from out geothermal system.

How does that work?  Is your house built on hot magma?

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6343 on: May 03, 2019, 05:49:09 PM »
Our hot water heater is way on one end of a long narrow house, and both kitchens are at the other end.  Fortunately the main bathroom and the laundry and close to the hot water.

We insulated all the hot water pipes throughout the house, but other than that we just run the hot for awhile before running the dishwasher.  It's annoying, but probably less expensive than trying to fix it.  Especially since our water is from a well and our hot water is essentially free from out geothermal system.

How does that work?  Is your house built on hot magma?
No, it's a ground source heat pump.  It both heats in winter and cools in summer, plus keeps the water in the tank hot.  When you calculate it based on electricity used it's about 400% efficient.  I love my geothermal furnace!

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6344 on: May 03, 2019, 06:11:17 PM »
Our hot water heater is way on one end of a long narrow house, and both kitchens are at the other end.  Fortunately the main bathroom and the laundry and close to the hot water.

We insulated all the hot water pipes throughout the house, but other than that we just run the hot for awhile before running the dishwasher.  It's annoying, but probably less expensive than trying to fix it.  Especially since our water is from a well and our hot water is essentially free from out geothermal system.

How does that work?  Is your house built on hot magma?
No, it's a ground source heat pump.  It both heats in winter and cools in summer, plus keeps the water in the tank hot.  When you calculate it based on electricity used it's about 400% efficient.  I love my geothermal furnace!

Ah ok I wouldn稚 call that free but even my gas water heater is a negligible expense

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6345 on: May 03, 2019, 07:16:49 PM »
Our hot water heater is way on one end of a long narrow house, and both kitchens are at the other end.  Fortunately the main bathroom and the laundry and close to the hot water.

We insulated all the hot water pipes throughout the house, but other than that we just run the hot for awhile before running the dishwasher.  It's annoying, but probably less expensive than trying to fix it.  Especially since our water is from a well and our hot water is essentially free from out geothermal system.

How does that work?  Is your house built on hot magma?
No, it's a ground source heat pump.  It both heats in winter and cools in summer, plus keeps the water in the tank hot.  When you calculate it based on electricity used it's about 400% efficient.  I love my geothermal furnace!

Ah ok I wouldn稚 call that free but even my gas water heater is a negligible expense
We would have had to pay 17000 just to get gas to our house, so we opted not to bother.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6346 on: May 06, 2019, 09:02:28 AM »
This happened almost 10 years ago but I still laugh to myself thinking about how it must have seemed to others.

When I was 25 I decided to get a nose job and chin implant after wanting one for many years. (non-mustachian for sure but I've never regretted it for a minute as it helped my self-esteem tremendously. I'm actually really glad that I did it back then before we were really mustachian as I probably would feel too guilty about it now). DH and I were extreme savers so we had the money easily. The same summer we also planned a trip to Europe to coincide with grad school graduation and PCSing from active-duty military. We had plenty of savings to cover both of these major events in cash.
At my pre-op appointment at my plastic surgeon's office I asked if I could use my rewards card to pay the bill (about 6k) and they said sure. I remember excitedly telling them that I wanted the rewards points because we were going to Europe later that summer and I was going to use the points for the hotel rooms. The receptionists were nice and asked me a few questions about our trip. But later I realized they must have thought I was some young giddy fool just charging things left and right on her credit card, like plastic surgery and trips to Europe, racking up debt in the process. I'm sure they never could have imagined someone my age having more than enough cash to pay for those things outright.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6347 on: May 06, 2019, 11:25:18 AM »
My MPP is that I'm getting really tired of reading/watching/listening to "tips to save you money" only to realize that I already do everything on the list. 

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6348 on: May 06, 2019, 11:31:05 AM »
My MPP is that I'm getting really tired of reading/watching/listening to "tips to save you money" only to realize that I already do everything on the list.
YES! It's like seeking out a reading list of suggested great books only to discover the list is for grade school children instead of adults.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6349 on: May 06, 2019, 12:03:39 PM »
My MPP is that I'm getting really tired of reading/watching/listening to "tips to save you money" only to realize that I already do everything on the list.

It's even more frustrating when the "tips" belong on the wall of shame and comedy. "Buy a new car to save on maintenance" is bad enough but the worst I've seen/heard on a regular basis is "you must carry a balance on you credit cards to raise your credit score". I even heard that from the leader of a local real estate investing group. Between that and a complete lack of concern for a math error on his spread sheet I lost confidence in the group.