Author Topic: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)  (Read 3102283 times)

RePatriot

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5400 on: July 23, 2018, 08:29:11 AM »
We are so close to cresting the $100k NW mark.  It would be perfect timing, because as a teacher I tell time in school years.  However, HR has dropped the ball and failed to deposit my 401k money for 2 months.  Now, I have my fingers crossed that it gets dumped in by 8/1 when I calculate NW or else it will be another month until it "counts" as crossing that threshold.

To compound the non-issue, we are also working through paperwork to get mutual funds purchased by DW's grandparents under our management.  Those funds were supposed to kick-start our journey to $250k!

RWD

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5401 on: July 23, 2018, 08:44:42 AM »
However, HR has dropped the ball and failed to deposit my 401k money for 2 months.

They may owe you for lost earnings:
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/401k-plan-fix-it-guide-you-have-not-timely-deposited-employee-elective-deferrals

Sibley

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5402 on: July 25, 2018, 09:14:40 AM »
My MPP: just started a new job, with a pay raise, so I'm still figuring out what take home pay will be after all benefits have kicked in (401k takes 2 months here).

At the same time:
I will be paying off my SL in September.
Chose to do low interest financing for project cash flow purposes vs. pull money from accounts already earmarked for that spending (am clearing more in gains than the loan costs, so it was a no brainer for me, and I'll pay it off pretty quickly anyway from normal cash flow).
Will now have 3 separate HSAs that I would really prefer to combine into one.
Pending the paperwork to rollover my old 401k.
Plus the associated updating of my tracking for all the changes.

I will be spending a bunch of time researching, updating and reevaluating everything to ensure it's all optimized. Once all the damn paperwork shows up. At least it's all converging at once, so I can do the analysis once vs multiple times.

Slow&Steady

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5403 on: July 25, 2018, 09:48:29 AM »
My MPP: just started a new job, with a pay raise, so I'm still figuring out what take home pay will be after all benefits have kicked in (401k takes 2 months here).

At the same time:
I will be paying off my SL in September.
Chose to do low interest financing for project cash flow purposes vs. pull money from accounts already earmarked for that spending (am clearing more in gains than the loan costs, so it was a no brainer for me, and I'll pay it off pretty quickly anyway from normal cash flow).
Will now have 3 separate HSAs that I would really prefer to combine into one.
Pending the paperwork to rollover my old 401k.
Plus the associated updating of my tracking for all the changes.

I will be spending a bunch of time researching, updating and reevaluating everything to ensure it's all optimized. Once all the damn paperwork shows up. At least it's all converging at once, so I can do the analysis once vs multiple times.

MPP - Trying to be patient enough to wait for all the paperwork to show up so you only do the updating/reevaluation 1 time. 

Sibley

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5404 on: July 25, 2018, 12:37:50 PM »
My MPP: just started a new job, with a pay raise, so I'm still figuring out what take home pay will be after all benefits have kicked in (401k takes 2 months here).

At the same time:
I will be paying off my SL in September.
Chose to do low interest financing for project cash flow purposes vs. pull money from accounts already earmarked for that spending (am clearing more in gains than the loan costs, so it was a no brainer for me, and I'll pay it off pretty quickly anyway from normal cash flow).
Will now have 3 separate HSAs that I would really prefer to combine into one.
Pending the paperwork to rollover my old 401k.
Plus the associated updating of my tracking for all the changes.

I will be spending a bunch of time researching, updating and reevaluating everything to ensure it's all optimized. Once all the damn paperwork shows up. At least it's all converging at once, so I can do the analysis once vs multiple times.

MPP - Trying to be patient enough to wait for all the paperwork to show up so you only do the updating/reevaluation 1 time.

Pretty much. And I can add one thing to my list - someone else around here posted about their cc having an annual fee now. I have the same cc, unused in the drawer, so guess what I get to go check on? (First Financial Bank, go check yours if you have it)

solon

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5405 on: July 27, 2018, 12:05:02 PM »
My propane provider sent out a notice of an opportunity to bulk-buy propane for the winter at a reduced rate. I looked at my usage for last winter.  I used so little propane that it will be cheaper for me to pay retail.

Zoot

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5406 on: July 31, 2018, 04:11:47 AM »
MPP:  Got an unexpected bonus at work, and since 401(k) contributions were taken out at my usual max-it-out-for-the-year percentage contribution rate, I am now on track to go over the yearly max.  Had to adjust my 401(k) contribution rate AND my additional withholding (side hustles and 1099 income FTW) to account for the unexpected income.

Imma

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5407 on: July 31, 2018, 01:12:08 PM »
I had a full refund + shipping refund for a faulty dress I bought. I bought it online using my credit card, so the money was refunded to my card.

In my country, you can't use a creditcard to buy groceries, and I don't buy much else, so now there's a +€70 balance on my card. There's a fee to transfer the money back to my bank account, and I only receive interest if the positive balance is higher than €500. This money is going to be sitting there until I need to order something online again.

rantk81

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5408 on: July 31, 2018, 03:27:39 PM »
After reviewing my monthly finances, realizing that I'm essentially FI now, and reviewing my insurance/liability-insurance coverage, it seemed to me that I needed more coverage to "protect my status" of being FI. So today I met with my insurance agent, and purchased an additional liability policy.  Damn, there goes another $400/yr for a few million extra in coverage.  Good thing that that's just a drop in the bucket...

WranglerBowman

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5409 on: July 31, 2018, 04:04:50 PM »
I use capital one investing and they are merging with E-Trade. All my stock will be transferred over except for fractional shares. I have .96 in a fractional share of a stock that's gone up 1100% and I really don't want to sell. That .96 came entirely from dividends! Sure I could re-buy it as a whole share but it's the principle damnit!!! Next dividend date was going to put me over the fraction to a whole share. Selling then buying is NOT THE SAME.

Sent from my H1623 using Tapatalk

Amen! Capital One for me too...for the time being.  It's especially frustrating when you have to sell a fractional share of Amazon, or worse Berkshire Hathaway... 

merula

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5410 on: August 02, 2018, 05:18:15 AM »
After reviewing my monthly finances, realizing that I'm essentially FI now, and reviewing my insurance/liability-insurance coverage, it seemed to me that I needed more coverage to "protect my status" of being FI. So today I met with my insurance agent, and purchased an additional liability policy.  Damn, there goes another $400/yr for a few million extra in coverage.  Good thing that that's just a drop in the bucket...

You may want more liability coverage, if you have more assets and your risk appetite is such that you feel that's warranted.

BUT, did you look into increasing deductibles or dropping physical damage or towing coverages? If you're FI, you can afford to pay a higher deductible or pay to replace your car in an accident, and those changes will save a significant amount of money.

rantk81

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5411 on: August 02, 2018, 07:26:46 AM »
You may want more liability coverage, if you have more assets and your risk appetite is such that you feel that's warranted.

BUT, did you look into increasing deductibles or dropping physical damage or towing coverages? If you're FI, you can afford to pay a higher deductible or pay to replace your car in an accident, and those changes will save a significant amount of money.

Good advice, but not applicable to me. I have no auto policy (I haven't had a car in years.)  I purchased additional home and personal liability coverage, with exclusions saying I'm not a regular driver.  And my deductibles on my homeowners policy have been at the maximum level for quite some time already.


BTDretire

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5412 on: August 02, 2018, 08:38:25 AM »

Me: Really? I hear complaints all the time about how they have no ATMs hardly, and it's tough to get your money out. And didn't their CEO just get in trouble for (info withheld to protect the guilty)
Everyone else: Well, yeah, I mean they're small, but that's to be expected. But at least they don't charge fees!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 What's an ATM?
 Oh, wait, I remember, I used one back in the middle 80s.

 I do have customers that don't have cash, so they go to the local
ATM, pay $2.50 to get $40.

DaMa

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5413 on: August 02, 2018, 09:27:02 AM »
I had conversations with two different people this week that need plastic surgery for legit medical reasons -- one a breast reduction and the other a tummy tuck.  The insurance companies have denied pre-approval.  I suggested that they go ahead and just pay out-of-pocket and pursue the insurance companies, since they would probably get paid.  Each looked at me like I'd lost my mind.  I mean sure it's $20k, but it's their health.  Plastic surgeons have payment plans.  Neither of these woman would hesitate to spend $30k on a new car.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5414 on: August 02, 2018, 01:31:33 PM »

Me: Really? I hear complaints all the time about how they have no ATMs hardly, and it's tough to get your money out. And didn't their CEO just get in trouble for (info withheld to protect the guilty)
Everyone else: Well, yeah, I mean they're small, but that's to be expected. But at least they don't charge fees!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 What's an ATM?
 Oh, wait, I remember, I used one back in the middle 80s.

 I do have customers that don't have cash, so they go to the local
ATM, pay $2.50 to get $40.
What are cheques?

I was born in the early 80s and I have never seen one in RL. I have heard that the last banks stopped accepting cheques from non-business customers 2 years ago.

If I need money, I go to the next bank that is in "my" of the 2 big pools and I get whatever cash amount I want with no costs.

merula

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5415 on: August 02, 2018, 01:47:31 PM »
What are cheques?

I was born in the early 80s and I have never seen one in RL. I have heard that the last banks stopped accepting cheques from non-business customers 2 years ago.

If I need money, I go to the next bank that is in "my" of the 2 big pools and I get whatever cash amount I want with no costs.

Come to the U.S., where you can have the magical experience of standing behind someone paying with check in the grocery store. Just like it's 1970!

"What's the date today?"
"August 2"
"August already?" [tears out check] "Can you throw this away for me, I started writing July."
"Your total is $15.67."
"It can't be fifty dollars!"
"No, it's FIFTEEN."
"Oh, OK, fifteen fifty-seven."
"No, sixty-seven."
"Oh, sixty-seven." [3 minutes later] "Here you go."
"Sir, you made this out to Amy's Supermarket. This is Bert's Supermarket."
"What?! I thought this was Amy's!"
"Amy's was located down the street, and they closed last year."
"Well, fine, throw that away. What's the date again?"

RWD

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5416 on: August 02, 2018, 01:50:41 PM »

Me: Really? I hear complaints all the time about how they have no ATMs hardly, and it's tough to get your money out. And didn't their CEO just get in trouble for (info withheld to protect the guilty)
Everyone else: Well, yeah, I mean they're small, but that's to be expected. But at least they don't charge fees!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 What's an ATM?
 Oh, wait, I remember, I used one back in the middle 80s.

 I do have customers that don't have cash, so they go to the local
ATM, pay $2.50 to get $40.
What are cheques?

I was born in the early 80s and I have never seen one in RL. I have heard that the last banks stopped accepting cheques from non-business customers 2 years ago.

If I need money, I go to the next bank that is in "my" of the 2 big pools and I get whatever cash amount I want with no costs.

A cheque is the British spelling of check. I was born in the mid-80s and I've encountered them a ton and still do. The main difference now is that we deposit them via mobile app instead of in person. Are they just not used in Germany? What is the common safe method of person-to-person transactions there?

solon

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5417 on: August 02, 2018, 01:53:27 PM »
I've been on a spending fast for the last week, and it's kind of depressing. I have no transactions to download, categorize, summarize, analyze.

WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL THIS FREE TIME!?!?

lemanfan

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5418 on: August 02, 2018, 03:10:57 PM »
A cheque is the British spelling of check. I was born in the mid-80s and I've encountered them a ton and still do. The main difference now is that we deposit them via mobile app instead of in person. Are they just not used in Germany? What is the common safe method of person-to-person transactions there?

The last time I used a check in Sweden was in 1998 and they were rare even back then.  Person-to-person transactions here are normally in cash, direct bank transfers (quick and free) or a mobile payment system called Swish (instant, and free between individuals). 

ketchup

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5419 on: August 02, 2018, 03:36:51 PM »
US here, and I just deposited four checks today!  Living in the future.

RWD

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5420 on: August 02, 2018, 03:43:30 PM »
A cheque is the British spelling of check. I was born in the mid-80s and I've encountered them a ton and still do. The main difference now is that we deposit them via mobile app instead of in person. Are they just not used in Germany? What is the common safe method of person-to-person transactions there?

The last time I used a check in Sweden was in 1998 and they were rare even back then.  Person-to-person transactions here are normally in cash, direct bank transfers (quick and free) or a mobile payment system called Swish (instant, and free between individuals).

We have Zelle and Venmo here in the US. They haven't gained enough traction to take the place of important transactions though.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5421 on: August 02, 2018, 03:53:12 PM »
A cheque is the British spelling of check. I was born in the mid-80s and I've encountered them a ton and still do. The main difference now is that we deposit them via mobile app instead of in person. Are they just not used in Germany? What is the common safe method of person-to-person transactions there?

The last time I used a check in Sweden was in 1998 and they were rare even back then.  Person-to-person transactions here are normally in cash, direct bank transfers (quick and free) or a mobile payment system called Swish (instant, and free between individuals).

We have Zelle and Venmo here in the US. They haven't gained enough traction to take the place of important transactions though.

I think that may be generational, too though. I've used venmo to accept money selling my wedding dress, we used it to get paid back from the attendants of my BIL's bachelor party, etc. I think it's pretty common in the mid to late 20s group?

nnls

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5422 on: August 02, 2018, 04:38:15 PM »
A cheque is the British spelling of check. I was born in the mid-80s and I've encountered them a ton and still do. The main difference now is that we deposit them via mobile app instead of in person. Are they just not used in Germany? What is the common safe method of person-to-person transactions there?

The last time I used a check in Sweden was in 1998 and they were rare even back then.  Person-to-person transactions here are normally in cash, direct bank transfers (quick and free) or a mobile payment system called Swish (instant, and free between individuals).

We have Zelle and Venmo here in the US. They haven't gained enough traction to take the place of important transactions though.

I think that may be generational, too though. I've used venmo to accept money selling my wedding dress, we used it to get paid back from the attendants of my BIL's bachelor party, etc. I think it's pretty common in the mid to late 20s group?

I am Australian and I dont think I have ever used a cheque.

Either just pay with card or direct bank transfer. My friends will just put money straight from their account into mine. We dont need to use a third party app like vemo, everyones bank can do it online. we have been doing this since before I was 18, though obviously only on smart phones since they became common

rantk81

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5423 on: August 02, 2018, 04:45:46 PM »
Oh yes, here in the USA we love our byzantine methods of transferring money!

Want to send it electronically?  You can do it with something called "ACH" which can take up to about a week for the actual funds to make it to the destination.  Want it faster?  You can do a "Wire Transfer" which is almost-instant, but has fees ranging from about $20-$50, usually on both ends of the transaction for sending and receiving. And it's only available for certain hours of the day (business hours -- and sometimes the "window" to do it closes "early".)  And usually you need to fill out about 5 or 6 fields on a web page (or even sign paperwork in person) to do this, and potentially have to verify it over a phone call.

Oh, just peer to peer transfers?  Yeah, there's Zelle and Venmo, but they aren't universally supported by every bank and/or credit union... and they have low daily limits.  Just enough to pay a monthly rent bill on a cheap rental... but anything more than a couple grand or so, and you're out of luck.

And yes, and then there are "Checks" -- where you are basically giving the other person a piece of paper that has your own account number on it, along with your name and address!  What could possibly go wrong?

Want to do cash?  Well, most ATMs have daily limits of a few hundred dollars... and if you try to withdraw several thousand dollars at a teller, you are given funny looks, and potentially have your "information reported" to the IRS.

Yeah, it's great...

nnls

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5424 on: August 02, 2018, 07:27:19 PM »
Oh yes, here in the USA we love our byzantine methods of transferring money!

Want to send it electronically?  You can do it with something called "ACH" which can take up to about a week for the actual funds to make it to the destination.  Want it faster?  You can do a "Wire Transfer" which is almost-instant, but has fees ranging from about $20-$50, usually on both ends of the transaction for sending and receiving. And it's only available for certain hours of the day (business hours -- and sometimes the "window" to do it closes "early".)  And usually you need to fill out about 5 or 6 fields on a web page (or even sign paperwork in person) to do this, and potentially have to verify it over a phone call.

Oh, just peer to peer transfers?  Yeah, there's Zelle and Venmo, but they aren't universally supported by every bank and/or credit union... and they have low daily limits.  Just enough to pay a monthly rent bill on a cheap rental... but anything more than a couple grand or so, and you're out of luck.

And yes, and then there are "Checks" -- where you are basically giving the other person a piece of paper that has your own account number on it, along with your name and address!  What could possibly go wrong?

Want to do cash?  Well, most ATMs have daily limits of a few hundred dollars... and if you try to withdraw several thousand dollars at a teller, you are given funny looks, and potentially have your "information reported" to the IRS.

Yeah, it's great...

I read somewhere once that Australia and NZ are often the places for financial companies to try out new ideas as we are relatively rich countries with a small population so its easy enough to role out. Also in Australia we have 4 main banks that most people use so that probably helps as well.

But transferring cash from one bank account to another, either happens straight away or takes a day and is free, I dont know of any bank that doesnt offer this via online banking.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5425 on: August 02, 2018, 09:02:57 PM »
In the UK, I can log on to online banking, spend five minutes setting up a direct payment, and it is credited to the beneficiary's account within two hours.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5426 on: August 02, 2018, 10:29:28 PM »
Zelle, Venmo...  PayPal, invented in US by Elon Musk (his first fortune) ... Google Pay works quite well, I collect with it... Apple Pay...  yes checks / wire transfers / cash...  America has lots of payment systems, just like we have many brands of soap...

nnls

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5427 on: August 02, 2018, 10:43:36 PM »
Zelle, Venmo...  PayPal, invented in US by Elon Musk (his first fortune) ... Google Pay works quite well, I collect with it... Apple Pay...  yes checks / wire transfers / cash...  America has lots of payment systems, just like we have many brands of soap...

But wouldnt it be easier to just transfer direct from one bank account to another (from any bank to any bank) without having to sign up for a third party app?

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5428 on: August 02, 2018, 10:54:53 PM »
Zelle, Venmo...  PayPal, invented in US by Elon Musk (his first fortune) ... Google Pay works quite well, I collect with it... Apple Pay...  yes checks / wire transfers / cash...  America has lots of payment systems, just like we have many brands of soap...

But wouldnt it be easier to just transfer direct from one bank account to another (from any bank to any bank) without having to sign up for a third party app?

It really would, and I have no idea why they wouldn’t roll it out. Could be regulatory because then they could have easily obliterated paypal

lemanfan

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5429 on: August 02, 2018, 11:39:04 PM »
Zelle, Venmo...  PayPal, invented in US by Elon Musk (his first fortune) ... Google Pay works quite well, I collect with it... Apple Pay...  yes checks / wire transfers / cash...  America has lots of payment systems, just like we have many brands of soap...

But wouldnt it be easier to just transfer direct from one bank account to another (from any bank to any bank) without having to sign up for a third party app?

In the Swish app available in my country, the app is owned by the major banks.  The app really makes it simpler, and ties the transfer to a phone number (which most people remember or can find out easily) rather than a long bank account number which you don't use in everyday life.

And bank transfers here normally takes a few hours, or overnight - while the Swish app really is instantaneous.

nnls

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5430 on: August 03, 2018, 12:48:07 AM »
Zelle, Venmo...  PayPal, invented in US by Elon Musk (his first fortune) ... Google Pay works quite well, I collect with it... Apple Pay...  yes checks / wire transfers / cash...  America has lots of payment systems, just like we have many brands of soap...

But wouldnt it be easier to just transfer direct from one bank account to another (from any bank to any bank) without having to sign up for a third party app?

In the Swish app available in my country, the app is owned by the major banks.  The app really makes it simpler, and ties the transfer to a phone number (which most people remember or can find out easily) rather than a long bank account number which you don't use in everyday life.

And bank transfers here normally takes a few hours, or overnight - while the Swish app really is instantaneous.

we now have transfers using your phone number or email if you want to set it up, but its still just through the banks online system not a different one. Using this is suppose to make it instant.

meerkat

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5431 on: August 03, 2018, 05:53:44 AM »
Planet Money did an episode on this in 2013 and revisited the topic recently but there wasn't much to update. If I remember rightly, it's a little bit of the U.S. being so large and complex and having so many financial institutions that it's a problem on a much, much larger scale than it is in, say, Britain. It's also a little bit of the U.S. financial system as a whole not feeling like it's much of a priority. I'm curious how stuff like Venmo will impact that in the next ten to twenty years.

Hirondelle

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5432 on: August 03, 2018, 06:10:06 AM »
Planet Money did an episode on this in 2013 and revisited the topic recently but there wasn't much to update. If I remember rightly, it's a little bit of the U.S. being so large and complex and having so many financial institutions that it's a problem on a much, much larger scale than it is in, say, Britain. It's also a little bit of the U.S. financial system as a whole not feeling like it's much of a priority. I'm curious how stuff like Venmo will impact that in the next ten to twenty years.

Thing is though, within Europe (eurozone) I can still transfer money cost-free, hassle-free, it just might take 2 days or so. Only additional thing I need is a BIC code on top of the IBAN code. And that's with tons of country-specific banks that don't exist in any of the other countries, way worse than the US where there's a couple major banks that are all over the place. I get it's not the easiest country to implement such a thing coming from another system, but it's also no excuse to stay 10 years behind the rest of the (developed) world :)

bluebelle

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5433 on: August 03, 2018, 07:48:59 AM »
I find it very interesting how many people are saying they've never written or received a physical cheque.   I got one last week from 'checkout 51', which is a rebate app here in Canada.  I don't write many physical cheques, as others have said, etransfer is easier.  However it has a $3,000 daily limit.  I guess my MPP problem is that I write cheques bigger than that.  (we're having our dream retirement home built, so there are a few 'big' cheques being written).

But even without that - Never written or received a cheque - wow.  Never gotten a cheque as a gift?  Never written a cheque as a gift?  (after receiving over $10K in cash as wedding gifts many years ago and having to deal with getting it to the bank, I never gift cash at weddings)

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5434 on: August 03, 2018, 08:12:15 AM »
Are they just not used in Germany? What is the common safe method of person-to-person transactions there?

No private person uses them, and as I said, most banks even do them anymore for privates, and some not even for businesses.

If you want to transfer money, you just "tell" your bank to transfer it to the other person's account. In the past by filling out a paper and giving it to a bank employee, now with your card on the machine or just online.

Cost-free in (normally) one work-day as long as I was old enough to do money things.

With SEPA system you can transfer to all Euro banks. I think since this year also with the limit of one day.

Interestingly this year the Sparkasse(n) (the most conservatives) have started an "instant" transfer service. But most of them charge for that.

RWD

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5435 on: August 03, 2018, 08:41:14 AM »
Zelle, Venmo...  PayPal, invented in US by Elon Musk (his first fortune) ... Google Pay works quite well, I collect with it... Apple Pay...  yes checks / wire transfers / cash...  America has lots of payment systems, just like we have many brands of soap...

But wouldnt it be easier to just transfer direct from one bank account to another (from any bank to any bank) without having to sign up for a third party app?
You don't have to sign up for Zelle, it's built-in to a lot of bank accounts.


Are they just not used in Germany? What is the common safe method of person-to-person transactions there?

No private person uses them, and as I said, most banks even do them anymore for privates, and some not even for businesses.

If you want to transfer money, you just "tell" your bank to transfer it to the other person's account. In the past by filling out a paper and giving it to a bank employee, now with your card on the machine or just online.

Cost-free in (normally) one work-day as long as I was old enough to do money things.

With SEPA system you can transfer to all Euro banks. I think since this year also with the limit of one day.

Interestingly this year the Sparkasse(n) (the most conservatives) have started an "instant" transfer service. But most of them charge for that.
Interesting, thanks!

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5436 on: August 03, 2018, 10:27:02 AM »
Planet Money did an episode on this in 2013 and revisited the topic recently but there wasn't much to update. If I remember rightly, it's a little bit of the U.S. being so large and complex and having so many financial institutions that it's a problem on a much, much larger scale than it is in, say, Britain. It's also a little bit of the U.S. financial system as a whole not feeling like it's much of a priority. I'm curious how stuff like Venmo will impact that in the next ten to twenty years.

We already have a perfectly workable system, the push ACH deposit.  Banks just have to allow regular people to do a push without authorization

I wonder in Europe are there weird scams where people send you money unsolicited and then try to extort you?

Imma

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5437 on: August 03, 2018, 10:54:35 AM »
I find it very interesting how many people are saying they've never written or received a physical cheque.   I got one last week from 'checkout 51', which is a rebate app here in Canada.  I don't write many physical cheques, as others have said, etransfer is easier.  However it has a $3,000 daily limit.  I guess my MPP problem is that I write cheques bigger than that.  (we're having our dream retirement home built, so there are a few 'big' cheques being written).

But even without that - Never written or received a cheque - wow.  Never gotten a cheque as a gift?  Never written a cheque as a gift?  (after receiving over $10K in cash as wedding gifts many years ago and having to deal with getting it to the bank, I never gift cash at weddings)

I'm 28 and I've never seen a physical check in my life.

People either get cash from an ATM, pay by card in a store, or do a wire transfer. I got my own bank account (with a debit card) when I turned 12, which is the traditional age to open a bank account in my country, and I remember the first year I had a bank account, I did wire transfers on paper  - write a paper slip that looks kind of like a check, put it in a free envelope, send it to the bank and they manually processed the transfer. This would take 2-3 days. After that we got internet at home and I started using online banking.

For the past 5 years or so, nearly everyone under the age of 60 has had an online banking app on their smartphone, that allows you to transfer money from your phone. Those transactions are instant if you're paying to the same bank, or the same day when it goes to another bank.

The banks in my country have also developed an online payment system together (paypal-ish) that all banks and all major webshops participate in.

For gifts, I have always received gift certificates, cash or wire transfers (from my parents, for my birthday). In my country it would be very unusual for someone to receive 10k in cash as a wedding gift, but potentially, if you have a massive wedding with 300 guests, I guess that could happen. Giving large sums of money is pretty uncommon here. I wouldn't even know where to get a check if I wanted to write one - I have no idea if my bank still uses checks at all. I think technically it's still possible to do a wire transfer on paper, but not even my 85-year old grandma does that anymore. Checks have not been commonly used in my lifetime.

In my job, I do a lot of international payments, and no country has such a bad system for wire transfers as the USA. All transactions within Europe are easy, and international wire transfers to far away places like Australia, China or the middle east are no problem. But wire transfers to and from the US take a long time, are expensive and you need to fill in all the details of the reciepient and their bank to make sure the payment arrives. Another additional problem are international payments in USD. They need to go through an intermediate bank in the US and this costs money and delays the payment.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5438 on: August 03, 2018, 12:17:23 PM »
That's pretty stark! I hope we upgrade before getting completely left out of the global economy.

Mezzie

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5439 on: August 03, 2018, 12:43:43 PM »
Wow. I pay my gardener* by check at his request (and mail it tk his PO box; how quaint!). He lives in the neighborhood, and I keep meaning to ask where exactly so I can just drop off the check. I'd much rather do an account transfer.

I get a rent check from the roommates monthly, and any stipend work I do outside my district is paid by check (and rare). That's about it! It's too bad, too, since the checks I use are DC Comics themed (silver age) and pretty cool. :p

*No facepunches for the gardener, please. It's one of the costs of physical disability.

GuitarStv

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5440 on: August 03, 2018, 12:49:25 PM »
I rented for a while and our landlord demanded a cheque . . . so I got a chequebook from my bank and learned out to write them for that purpose.  Haven't used one before or since though . . . and I'm 37.  Do grocery stores and the like even take cheques any more?

ketchup

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5441 on: August 03, 2018, 02:28:27 PM »
I rented for a while and our landlord demanded a cheque . . . so I got a chequebook from my bank and learned out to write them for that purpose.  Haven't used one before or since though . . . and I'm 37.  Do grocery stores and the like even take cheques any more?
I know that the grocery store I frequent near work definitely takes checks (Jewel-Osco for you midwesterners).  They were updating their checkout systems recently and had a big sign saying that if you write a check for the first time past x date, you'll have to show your ID or something.

I've certainly never used one there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1epEtB0lVo&feature=youtu.be&t=166

Cookie78

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5442 on: August 03, 2018, 11:36:23 PM »
I have checks and use them on occasion, but not enough to have needed to buy another box of them within the past 15+ years. I prefer e-transfer or credit card when possible. The last time I used a check was for a wedding gift.

I also have a tenant who prefers to pay with post-dated checks. Works for me just fine especially since I can use E-deposit and don’t have to go to the bank.

Also my health insurance rebates used to all be sent via check, until I set up automatic deposit.

penguintroopers

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5443 on: August 03, 2018, 11:55:25 PM »
With all the talk about "Who even uses checks anymore?" all I could think about is rent and tithing at church.

Well, and the DMV. (Which would also take cash, but wont take my debit card... so since I hardly ever carry cash, check it is).

I just realized I may use checks more often than I use cash. 24 years old for reference.

Also, I tried to send money to a friend of the same age using Zelle, and she couldn't figure out how to get the money and the money got sent back to me.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5444 on: August 04, 2018, 12:11:48 AM »
MPP - I didn't need the extra income, but I really want to live overseas as an expat.  I'm going to make extra money that I don't need, so I sold some aggressive investments that I don't need the gains from to counterbalance against taking any risk to make 'extra' gains.  I just want to be FatFIRE, not necessarily 'obeseFIRE'.

I even had Mustachians jump on me for this, so maybe it's a UberMustachian People Problem?

Hirondelle

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5445 on: August 04, 2018, 12:35:55 AM »
MPP - I didn't need the extra income, but I really want to live overseas as an expat.  I'm going to make extra money that I don't need, so I sold some aggressive investments that I don't need the gains from to counterbalance against taking any risk to make 'extra' gains.  I just want to be FatFIRE, not necessarily 'obeseFIRE'.

I even had Mustachians jump on me for this, so maybe it's a UberMustachian People Problem?

Expat life can be great. If you get too obeseFIRE - how about just giving the money away?
(depending on the country you'd expat in you could do a lot of good there, or just back home, or just anywhere)

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5446 on: August 04, 2018, 12:47:03 AM »
MPP - I didn't need the extra income, but I really want to live overseas as an expat.  I'm going to make extra money that I don't need, so I sold some aggressive investments that I don't need the gains from to counterbalance against taking any risk to make 'extra' gains.  I just want to be FatFIRE, not necessarily 'obeseFIRE'.

I even had Mustachians jump on me for this, so maybe it's a UberMustachian People Problem?

Expat life can be great. If you get too obeseFIRE - how about just giving the money away?
(depending on the country you'd expat in you could do a lot of good there, or just back home, or just anywhere)

Quite a long time ago, in my 20's and on my first expat assignment, I dreampt about being rich enough to use my chemical engineering background and self-funding to make third-world countries cleaner on a large scale (water and steam scrubbers, oil-in-water filters, gas-flotation units...).  I'm starting to get excited about jumping in and  (knowing what I know now) use the internet to try to leverage my cause!  No downside and plenty of upside, possibly for everyone for minimal costs (if enough people contribute a small amount)!  Just need to be more 'Pete' about making it exciting.

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5447 on: August 04, 2018, 11:57:19 AM »
MPP - I didn't need the extra income, but I really want to live overseas as an expat.  I'm going to make extra money that I don't need, so I sold some aggressive investments that I don't need the gains from to counterbalance against taking any risk to make 'extra' gains.  I just want to be FatFIRE, not necessarily 'obeseFIRE'.

I even had Mustachians jump on me for this, so maybe it's a UberMustachian People Problem?

Lol, you only got jumped on because you made an inflammatory post in the market timing thread with no context

Bicycle_B

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5448 on: August 04, 2018, 12:59:50 PM »
MPP - I didn't need the extra income, but I really want to live overseas as an expat.  I'm going to make extra money that I don't need, so I sold some aggressive investments that I don't need the gains from to counterbalance against taking any risk to make 'extra' gains.  I just want to be FatFIRE, not necessarily 'obeseFIRE'.

I even had Mustachians jump on me for this, so maybe it's a UberMustachian People Problem?

Lol, you only got jumped on because you made an inflammatory post in the market timing thread with no context

Now I understand why you did it! At the time, I thought you were joking.

Well, all of your plans make sense. Good luck in your new adventures, @EscapeVelocity2020!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #5449 on: August 04, 2018, 05:07:22 PM »
Cheques  - I use for rent and membership payment in some groups, and for some courses with those groups, and paying some contractors.  Otherwise?   I use my credit card - most transactions are within my Tap limit, so I am in danger of forgetting my PIN number.  I use cash so little, $100 in my wallet lasts a few months.

It's not an age thing (look at my name), it is a country/banking thing.