Author Topic: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)  (Read 5065522 times)

Anette

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7750 on: August 18, 2020, 11:56:53 PM »
Thank you SwordGuy, that is very inspiring

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7751 on: August 19, 2020, 04:09:25 AM »
Interesting tactic Swordguy!

I was discussing the economy with a relative, who was complaining about how the rich were expected to support the unemployed.  I said that I'd be willing to do my part and pay taxes as needed to get people on their feet again.  She looked at me in my elderly t-shirt and shorts, with my dented car, and said scornfully, "I'm not talking about people like YOU!"

I didn't feel like I needed to enlighten her about my net worth, but yes, I do now fall into the "haves" demographic.

She is totally right. If you aren't complaining about too high taxes, you aren't rich!!

But in honesty, that is like the factory owner complaining about the taxes to build streets the factory workers use to get to his factory.

I've only bought one entire house this year to help someone, and it's a good feeling. I don't tell people about it though.
If you want to feel even better, you could buy me a house and make me FIRE 10 years earlier :P

Jokes side, remember all those foreclosures after the banking crisis? Houses were bought on the cheap by big funds and people were sitting on the street. That is a perfect example of what I think your "investment" hould not be.

Personally I would love to have the money to restaurate all the 200+ years old houses in my small town. Their view is such a pity!

PMG

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7752 on: August 19, 2020, 05:03:40 AM »
Thank you for that story @SwordGuy and that real work and risk investing directly in people. Iíve got lots of interesting things to think through.

We are really early in our $ saving journey and earning more money than ever (though small potatoes compared to many on this forum!) and it really has us thinking about how we can be generous. For so many years we were so tight, it feels amazing to be able to start giving things away.

Perhaps thatís a mpp, struggling to balance focusing on our own future security with the desire to be generous to those in need around us.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 05:05:41 AM by PMG »

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7753 on: August 19, 2020, 08:40:35 AM »
Thank you for that story @SwordGuy and that real work and risk investing directly in people. Iíve got lots of interesting things to think through.
You're welcome!    Honestly, there really wasn't much risk. 

We are really early in our $ saving journey and earning more money than ever (though small potatoes compared to many on this forum!) and it really has us thinking about how we can be generous. For so many years we were so tight, it feels amazing to be able to start giving things away.
Generosity doesn't have to be "big" like a house.   Sometimes what people need most is a generous spirit to shower them with friendship and affection.

Perhaps thatís a mpp, struggling to balance focusing on our own future security with the desire to be generous to those in need around us.
It is.   

I ran across two comments some years ago that stuck with me.   "Money doesn't change people, it just lets them be more of what they already are."       That and "Begin as you mean to continue."

Targeted help doesn't have to cost a lot of money.   It doesn't even have to cost money at all.   Here's an example.   My dad had passed away and my mom got sick.   I had to go fly to see her at the last minute.     She lived about 7 hours away.   That money was a sunk cost.

I had a friend who didn't have much money and who had wanted to visit her friends in the city where my mom lived.    Instead of buying a return plane ticket, I paid her to drive my car to my mom's city.   She spent the weekend with her friends and then we both drove home in my car.   I think I even saved $10!   She got needed cash in her pocket, she got a paid vacation, we had a nice chat on the drive home, AND it wasn't charity because she was doing me a favor by saving me money.  (I never mentioned it was only a few dollars.)    The opportunities are out there if you look for them.

merula

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7754 on: August 19, 2020, 09:03:34 AM »
This is probably a dumb question, but for those of you who've sent people anonymous checks, how do you actually accomplish that? Is it a bank thing? A money order?

jinga nation

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7755 on: August 19, 2020, 09:14:58 AM »
Couponing isn't any fun any more. I used to have such fun matching sales to coupons and getting the 'best deals'. Now I realize I don't need much of that stuff--packaged snacks, makeup, prepared foods. There are more frugal options in most cases.

Most coupons I see for supermarkets are for name-brand packaged items, mostly processed items, not actually healthy despite the labeling.
Hasn't really worked for us since we buy fresh fruit and veg, and store brand items. And if we need to buy bulk, it's off to Sam's Club.

I think it's rare that I see someone using coupons in the checkout aisle.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7756 on: August 19, 2020, 09:23:18 AM »
This is probably a dumb question, but for those of you who've sent people anonymous checks, how do you actually accomplish that? Is it a bank thing? A money order?

I don't think it's a dumb question at all!

We haven't done it yet.    I think a cashier's check would work.  I don't know anything about money orders.

We have a real estate company but very few people know what it's name is, so writing the checks from that is an option.   I suppose people could track it back to us but most wouldn't.  We just have to double-check with our accountant.

We thought about setting up a charity donor fund (which would have it's own account).  But we have to do some more research.   I'm not sure that "the tax rules" for who you can give what to would mesh with what we want to do, so a formal non-profit might not be a good move.

PMG

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7757 on: August 19, 2020, 09:29:24 AM »
Couponing isn't any fun any more. I used to have such fun matching sales to coupons and getting the 'best deals'. Now I realize I don't need much of that stuff--packaged snacks, makeup, prepared foods. There are more frugal options in most cases.

Most coupons I see for supermarkets are for name-brand packaged items, mostly processed items, not actually healthy despite the labeling.
Hasn't really worked for us since we buy fresh fruit and veg, and store brand items. And if we need to buy bulk, it's off to Sam's Club.

I think it's rare that I see someone using coupons in the checkout aisle.

I do in app grocery coupons that load to the loyalty card, and both our stores, Kroger & Food City, often have coupons for store brand items, like oatmeal, yogurt, cheese etc. Silly they make us jump through the hoops for those discounts, but I often do it and it adds up to a couple dollars each time.

ysette9

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7758 on: August 19, 2020, 09:41:05 AM »
There's a spending chart making the social media rounds from an article about a 25 yr old Boston man who makes $100K and spends about $33K.   Of course, lots of uninformed comments by the hoi polloi about how it's impossible, etc.

The young man, to his credit, donates over $600 a month for charitable purposes.   This is a source of complete disbelief to a lot of people.  They simply can't comprehend it's possible.   It's only a bit over 7% of his income.  I personally know quite a few families who tithe (that's 10% for those who don't know) and I'm sure you've all seen case studies where people tithe to their church or charities.

So, my MPP problem is that for me to give us as an example, I have to say, "Dude, we buy ENTIRE HOUSES to help other people out.   Three in the last 2 years, as a matter of fact."

Not sure they'll believe that.
I saw that chart going around on FB and there were a number of things that didnít add up. Like how you earn $100k in a location where rent is $800/mo. The charity thing didnít make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure.

SquashingDebt

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7759 on: August 19, 2020, 10:06:43 AM »
There's a spending chart making the social media rounds from an article about a 25 yr old Boston man who makes $100K and spends about $33K.   Of course, lots of uninformed comments by the hoi polloi about how it's impossible, etc.

The young man, to his credit, donates over $600 a month for charitable purposes.   This is a source of complete disbelief to a lot of people.  They simply can't comprehend it's possible.   It's only a bit over 7% of his income.  I personally know quite a few families who tithe (that's 10% for those who don't know) and I'm sure you've all seen case studies where people tithe to their church or charities.

So, my MPP problem is that for me to give us as an example, I have to say, "Dude, we buy ENTIRE HOUSES to help other people out.   Three in the last 2 years, as a matter of fact."

Not sure they'll believe that.
I saw that chart going around on FB and there were a number of things that didnít add up. Like how you earn $100k in a location where rent is $800/mo. The charity thing didnít make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure.


I earn almost $100k now and my rent is $745 a month :)  Specialized job in a LCOL area.

I haven't seen the chart though, so can't comment on it specifically.

merula

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7760 on: August 19, 2020, 10:13:54 AM »
There's a spending chart making the social media rounds from an article about a 25 yr old Boston man who makes $100K and spends about $33K.   Of course, lots of uninformed comments by the hoi polloi about how it's impossible, etc.

The young man, to his credit, donates over $600 a month for charitable purposes.   This is a source of complete disbelief to a lot of people.  They simply can't comprehend it's possible.   It's only a bit over 7% of his income.  I personally know quite a few families who tithe (that's 10% for those who don't know) and I'm sure you've all seen case studies where people tithe to their church or charities.

So, my MPP problem is that for me to give us as an example, I have to say, "Dude, we buy ENTIRE HOUSES to help other people out.   Three in the last 2 years, as a matter of fact."

Not sure they'll believe that.
I saw that chart going around on FB and there were a number of things that didnít add up. Like how you earn $100k in a location where rent is $800/mo. The charity thing didnít make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure.


I earn almost $100k now and my rent is $745 a month :)  Specialized job in a LCOL area.

I haven't seen the chart though, so can't comment on it specifically.

You can find $800 rent just about anywhere, as long as you're willing to compromise on everything else. Roommates, renting a single basement room in a house, etc.

I live in a MCOL city, earn in that neighborhood, and I can get a variety of studios in the city on public transit routes for $800. They're tiny, not well maintained and have zero amenities, but they're out there.

My mortgage for a 1400 sq ft house would've been about $800-900 if I hadn't gone for the 15 year option.

ChickenStash

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7761 on: August 19, 2020, 10:35:03 AM »
There's a spending chart making the social media rounds from an article about a 25 yr old Boston man who makes $100K and spends about $33K.   Of course, lots of uninformed comments by the hoi polloi about how it's impossible, etc.

The young man, to his credit, donates over $600 a month for charitable purposes.   This is a source of complete disbelief to a lot of people.  They simply can't comprehend it's possible.   It's only a bit over 7% of his income.  I personally know quite a few families who tithe (that's 10% for those who don't know) and I'm sure you've all seen case studies where people tithe to their church or charities.

So, my MPP problem is that for me to give us as an example, I have to say, "Dude, we buy ENTIRE HOUSES to help other people out.   Three in the last 2 years, as a matter of fact."

Not sure they'll believe that.
I saw that chart going around on FB and there were a number of things that didnít add up. Like how you earn $100k in a location where rent is $800/mo. The charity thing didnít make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure.


I earn almost $100k now and my rent is $745 a month :)  Specialized job in a LCOL area.

I haven't seen the chart though, so can't comment on it specifically.

You can find $800 rent just about anywhere, as long as you're willing to compromise on everything else. Roommates, renting a single basement room in a house, etc.

I live in a MCOL city, earn in that neighborhood, and I can get a variety of studios in the city on public transit routes for $800. They're tiny, not well maintained and have zero amenities, but they're out there.

My mortgage for a 1400 sq ft house would've been about $800-900 if I hadn't gone for the 15 year option.

I haven't seen that particular chart, either, but that income level and rent isn't all that unusual here in fly-over country. $800 would get a pretty nice apartment in my area. That would be for a single person. Roommates and such would drop it accordingly. About the lowest I've seen for a single occupant is $500 but that getting to be a pretty small apartment.

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7762 on: August 19, 2020, 10:47:29 AM »
I thought about turning on the AC, but there was a brown out while I was debating with myself.

A couple of days later, DH mentioned turning on the AC and I pointed out that we probably shouldn't start during high peak hours, given the rolling blackouts in the area. Plus, he couldn't commit to communicating with our roommate who likes the heat and would have to shut her windows to allow us to turn the AC on. Instead, he decided to get up earlier and get some of his work done before it gets too hot.

It is only in the high 80s. I think consecutive days in the mid 90s and we would have gone ahead and used the AC.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 10:49:20 AM by ixtap »

Anette

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7763 on: August 19, 2020, 11:11:26 AM »
There's a spending chart making the social media rounds from an article about a 25 yr old Boston man who makes $100K and spends about $33K.   Of course, lots of uninformed comments by the hoi polloi about how it's impossible, etc.

The young man, to his credit, donates over $600 a month for charitable purposes.   This is a source of complete disbelief to a lot of people.  They simply can't comprehend it's possible.   It's only a bit over 7% of his income.  I personally know quite a few families who tithe (that's 10% for those who don't know) and I'm sure you've all seen case studies where people tithe to their church or charities.

So, my MPP problem is that for me to give us as an example, I have to say, "Dude, we buy ENTIRE HOUSES to help other people out.   Three in the last 2 years, as a matter of fact."

Not sure they'll believe that.
I saw that chart going around on FB and there were a number of things that didnít add up. Like how you earn $100k in a location where rent is $800/mo. The charity thing didnít make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure.

I see your point but you could obviously have differing opinions on that
As @englishteacheralex once put it on this forum

 " Habitual giving trains one's soul to stop thinking of money as a fortress against misfortune or an end in and of itself. We don't give because various charities need money, we give because we need to get rid of money's hold on our soul"

Can't remember when and exactly where he wrote this but I have this quote on my fridge now and think especially the second sentence is really true ( but not the only reason for giving)
I think this feeling of abundance that you can have even while you are earning little is something to be cherished while a scarcity mindset is extremely unhelpful and stressful.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7764 on: August 19, 2020, 12:42:09 PM »
There's a spending chart making the social media rounds from an article about a 25 yr old Boston man who makes $100K and spends about $33K.   Of course, lots of uninformed comments by the hoi polloi about how it's impossible, etc.

The young man, to his credit, donates over $600 a month for charitable purposes.   This is a source of complete disbelief to a lot of people.  They simply can't comprehend it's possible.   It's only a bit over 7% of his income.  I personally know quite a few families who tithe (that's 10% for those who don't know) and I'm sure you've all seen case studies where people tithe to their church or charities.

So, my MPP problem is that for me to give us as an example, I have to say, "Dude, we buy ENTIRE HOUSES to help other people out.   Three in the last 2 years, as a matter of fact."

Not sure they'll believe that.
I saw that chart going around on FB and there were a number of things that didnít add up. Like how you earn $100k in a location where rent is $800/mo. The charity thing didnít make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure.

That chart came from an article.   The article clearly (and I do mean CLEARLY) explains that the young man has 3 roommates.   So rent, utilities, cable and the housecleaner bill would be 4 times as high in total.

The chart showed "spending".   Charity is spending.   Savings is not "spending".

Travis

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7765 on: August 19, 2020, 06:15:53 PM »
Couponing isn't any fun any more. I used to have such fun matching sales to coupons and getting the 'best deals'. Now I realize I don't need much of that stuff--packaged snacks, makeup, prepared foods. There are more frugal options in most cases.

Most coupons I see for supermarkets are for name-brand packaged items, mostly processed items, not actually healthy despite the labeling.
Hasn't really worked for us since we buy fresh fruit and veg, and store brand items. And if we need to buy bulk, it's off to Sam's Club.

I think it's rare that I see someone using coupons in the checkout aisle.

We only do it when the coupon is in the aisle right in front of the item as we pluck it off the shelf. I tried doing the digital coupon thing, but nothing we buy is ever on offer.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7766 on: August 19, 2020, 07:16:41 PM »
This came across my FB feed this evening and I really like it.   It fits in with the discussion we have about how to help people out.  Sometimes it really is this easy.

And the equally important part is how the lady avoids making the other folks feel like they are receiving charity.   It's not always possible to do that but it's awesome when you can.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7767 on: August 20, 2020, 03:24:20 AM »
Couponing isn't any fun any more. I used to have such fun matching sales to coupons and getting the 'best deals'. Now I realize I don't need much of that stuff--packaged snacks, makeup, prepared foods. There are more frugal options in most cases.

Most coupons I see for supermarkets are for name-brand packaged items, mostly processed items, not actually healthy despite the labeling.
Hasn't really worked for us since we buy fresh fruit and veg, and store brand items. And if we need to buy bulk, it's off to Sam's Club.

I think it's rare that I see someone using coupons in the checkout aisle.

Haha, similar here often. I get excited to see a big discount just to realize it is for some expensive brand, which is more expensive even with discount than the store brand (which often is similar or even better).
Dang, I can't save money even with a 40% discount!

btw. a few weeks ago I have watched a video of a US couple making a comparison between name brands and ALDI. Holy sh*** where those two dumbfounded that they payed only half for stuff that was 20% better, 50% equally (or nigligible worse) and only 30% noticeable worse than the expensive brands.
T'was quite funny.
(Also watch Americans testing Japanese seven-eleven konbini food to really appreciate how bad your US stuff is :D)

ysette9

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7768 on: August 20, 2020, 08:50:53 AM »

btw. a few weeks ago I have watched a video of a US couple making a comparison between name brands and ALDI. Holy sh*** where those two dumbfounded that they payed only half for stuff that was 20% better, 50% equally (or nigligible worse) and only 30% noticeable worse than the expensive brands.
Iím sorry, I just canít follow this. The Aldi brands are cheaper? Better? Worse? 30% better/worse/more expensive/cheaper?

PhilB

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7769 on: August 20, 2020, 09:53:42 AM »

btw. a few weeks ago I have watched a video of a US couple making a comparison between name brands and ALDI. Holy sh*** where those two dumbfounded that they payed only half for stuff that was 20% better, 50% equally (or nigligible worse) and only 30% noticeable worse than the expensive brands.
Iím sorry, I just canít follow this. The Aldi brands are cheaper? Better? Worse? 30% better/worse/more expensive/cheaper?

They were all half the price.  50% of them were as good. 30% were worse.  20% were better.

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7770 on: August 20, 2020, 10:04:37 AM »

btw. a few weeks ago I have watched a video of a US couple making a comparison between name brands and ALDI. Holy sh*** where those two dumbfounded that they payed only half for stuff that was 20% better, 50% equally (or nigligible worse) and only 30% noticeable worse than the expensive brands.
Iím sorry, I just canít follow this. The Aldi brands are cheaper? Better? Worse? 30% better/worse/more expensive/cheaper?

They were all half the price.  50% of them were as good. 30% were worse.  20% were better.

There is a British show that goes in and swaps out a family's favorites for a week with everything in generic packaging. They can rarely tell which items were switched and which were not. The only problem is, the replacements come from like five different stores, so shopping would be a nightmare.

I find that Aldi's prices aren't any lower than generic, while the grocery store I get my generics at has a wider variety. It seems like Aldi's is similar to Trader Joe's in so far as most of the excitement seems to be around pre made foods and treats, with a limited selection of ingredients.

ysette9

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7771 on: August 20, 2020, 10:54:50 AM »

btw. a few weeks ago I have watched a video of a US couple making a comparison between name brands and ALDI. Holy sh*** where those two dumbfounded that they payed only half for stuff that was 20% better, 50% equally (or nigligible worse) and only 30% noticeable worse than the expensive brands.
Iím sorry, I just canít follow this. The Aldi brands are cheaper? Better? Worse? 30% better/worse/more expensive/cheaper?

They were all half the price.  50% of them were as good. 30% were worse.  20% were better.
Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

ysette9

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7772 on: August 20, 2020, 10:58:21 AM »

btw. a few weeks ago I have watched a video of a US couple making a comparison between name brands and ALDI. Holy sh*** where those two dumbfounded that they payed only half for stuff that was 20% better, 50% equally (or nigligible worse) and only 30% noticeable worse than the expensive brands.
Iím sorry, I just canít follow this. The Aldi brands are cheaper? Better? Worse? 30% better/worse/more expensive/cheaper?

They were all half the price.  50% of them were as good. 30% were worse.  20% were better.

There is a British show that goes in and swaps out a family's favorites for a week with everything in generic packaging. They can rarely tell which items were switched and which were not. The only problem is, the replacements come from like five different stores, so shopping would be a nightmare.

I find that Aldi's prices aren't any lower than generic, while the grocery store I get my generics at has a wider variety. It seems like Aldi's is similar to Trader Joe's in so far as most of the excitement seems to be around pre made foods and treats, with a limited selection of ingredients.
Iím a TJís fan. I appreciate that the selection is narrower because it makes it easier for e to shop: much less mental fatigue. If I go to a place like Safeway I spend way more time shopping and end up vaguely dissatisfied because it is a lot of work to choose between the five brands and six flavors of whatever while taking into account different package sizes and cost per unit and weekly sales. Ugh. Just give me creamy peanut butter and let me be on my way! I also find on average TJ products have fewer ingredients, way fewer gotcha crap additives, and often the taste and quality just seems higher. I went through a period before having kids of being intensely lactose intolerant and found I had a much easier time navigating labels at TJís than at Safeway.

Poundwise

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7773 on: August 20, 2020, 12:38:00 PM »
There's a spending chart making the social media rounds from an article about a 25 yr old Boston man who makes $100K and spends about $33K.   Of course, lots of uninformed comments by the hoi polloi about how it's impossible, etc.

The young man, to his credit, donates over $600 a month for charitable purposes.   This is a source of complete disbelief to a lot of people.  They simply can't comprehend it's possible.   It's only a bit over 7% of his income.  I personally know quite a few families who tithe (that's 10% for those who don't know) and I'm sure you've all seen case studies where people tithe to their church or charities.

So, my MPP problem is that for me to give us as an example, I have to say, "Dude, we buy ENTIRE HOUSES to help other people out.   Three in the last 2 years, as a matter of fact."

Not sure they'll believe that.

I just love your MPP, @SwordGuy !

We set up a DAF (no harder than setting up any other sort of fund online) but find that it reduces spontaneity... when times are hard, it often coincides with the market being down, which makes me reluctant to sell.  It's a good option for scheduled regular donations.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 12:40:24 PM by Poundwise »

Anette

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7774 on: August 20, 2020, 03:32:07 PM »
There's a spending chart making the social media rounds from an article about a 25 yr old Boston man who makes $100K and spends about $33K.   Of course, lots of uninformed comments by the hoi polloi about how it's impossible, etc.

The young man, to his credit, donates over $600 a month for charitable purposes.   This is a source of complete disbelief to a lot of people.  They simply can't comprehend it's possible.   It's only a bit over 7% of his income.  I personally know quite a few families who tithe (that's 10% for those who don't know) and I'm sure you've all seen case studies where people tithe to their church or charities.

So, my MPP problem is that for me to give us as an example, I have to say, "Dude, we buy ENTIRE HOUSES to help other people out.   Three in the last 2 years, as a matter of fact."

Not sure they'll believe that.
I saw that chart going around on FB and there were a number of things that didnít add up. Like how you earn $100k in a location where rent is $800/mo. The charity thing didnít make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure.

I see your point but you could obviously have differing opinions on that
As @englishteacheralex once put it on this forum

 " Habitual giving trains one's soul to stop thinking of money as a fortress against misfortune or an end in and of itself. We don't give because various charities need money, we give because we need to get rid of money's hold on our soul"

Can't remember when and exactly where he wrote this but I have this quote on my fridge now and think especially the second sentence is really true ( but not the only reason for giving)
I think this feeling of abundance that you can have even while you are earning little is something to be cherished while a scarcity mindset is extremely unhelpful and stressful.

I think that I'm missing some subtleties here. @Annette can you help me to understand your position? I quite like the quote that you shared but fail to see how that wisdom differs from what SwordGuy or others who give is doing.  His extreme generosity shows that he is using money as a tool for good, rather than hoarding it just in case.

Is your disagreement rather with the idea that you should maybe give less while you're earning less so that you can build your own stash before helping others? I can certainly see how giving would be a way to ease the scarcity mindset because it lets you see your own abundance (in health, ability to work and other areas, even if not in savings). Where I often cringe in the case studies is when people tithe while increasing their debt every month. So long as they're in the black, I'm all for giving.

Thank you @Sunhat  for asking as I realise now it wasn't obvious what I was referring to.
So I was referring to yvette9s statement, specifically the last two sentences.
 "The charity thing didn't make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure."

 Security obviously is not easily measured but rather a personal feeling of what does a person need to feel financially secure so the statement is somewhat vague. I imagine a lot of people will be feeling that their future is secure once they reach FI but I feel giving is something I want to do along the way already, enjoying that grateful, humble feeling of abundance, knowing I am blessed and fortunate.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7775 on: August 20, 2020, 09:46:04 PM »
There's a spending chart making the social media rounds from an article about a 25 yr old Boston man who makes $100K and spends about $33K.   Of course, lots of uninformed comments by the hoi polloi about how it's impossible, etc.

The young man, to his credit, donates over $600 a month for charitable purposes.   This is a source of complete disbelief to a lot of people.  They simply can't comprehend it's possible.   It's only a bit over 7% of his income.  I personally know quite a few families who tithe (that's 10% for those who don't know) and I'm sure you've all seen case studies where people tithe to their church or charities.

So, my MPP problem is that for me to give us as an example, I have to say, "Dude, we buy ENTIRE HOUSES to help other people out.   Three in the last 2 years, as a matter of fact."

Not sure they'll believe that.
I saw that chart going around on FB and there were a number of things that didnít add up. Like how you earn $100k in a location where rent is $800/mo. The charity thing didnít make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure.

I see your point but you could obviously have differing opinions on that
As @englishteacheralex once put it on this forum

 " Habitual giving trains one's soul to stop thinking of money as a fortress against misfortune or an end in and of itself. We don't give because various charities need money, we give because we need to get rid of money's hold on our soul"

Can't remember when and exactly where he wrote this but I have this quote on my fridge now and think especially the second sentence is really true ( but not the only reason for giving)
I think this feeling of abundance that you can have even while you are earning little is something to be cherished while a scarcity mindset is extremely unhelpful and stressful.

I think that I'm missing some subtleties here. @Annette can you help me to understand your position? I quite like the quote that you shared but fail to see how that wisdom differs from what SwordGuy or others who give is doing.  His extreme generosity shows that he is using money as a tool for good, rather than hoarding it just in case.

Is your disagreement rather with the idea that you should maybe give less while you're earning less so that you can build your own stash before helping others? I can certainly see how giving would be a way to ease the scarcity mindset because it lets you see your own abundance (in health, ability to work and other areas, even if not in savings). Where I often cringe in the case studies is when people tithe while increasing their debt every month. So long as they're in the black, I'm all for giving.

Thank you @Sunhat  for asking as I realise now it wasn't obvious what I was referring to.
So I was referring to yvette9s statement, specifically the last two sentences.
 "The charity thing didn't make sense when there was no slice in the pie for saving. Charity is nice but that is way down the list after you make sure your own present and future are secure."

 Security obviously is not easily measured but rather a personal feeling of what does a person need to feel financially secure so the statement is somewhat vague. I imagine a lot of people will be feeling that their future is secure once they reach FI but I feel giving is something I want to do along the way already, enjoying that grateful, humble feeling of abundance, knowing I am blessed and fortunate.
I see what you are saying and I donít necessarily disagree with you. The specific reason I say that in this example is the person is said to be 25. So unless there is an inheritance involved, this person likely is nowhere near financial security due to having recently started her/his career. If the person were 35 and we could assume they had saved a comfortable cushion in case of hardship, Iíd be more likely to agree with you.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7776 on: August 20, 2020, 10:01:28 PM »
The specific reason I say that in this example is the person is said to be 25. So unless there is an inheritance involved, this person likely is nowhere near financial security due to having recently started her/his career. If the person were 35 and we could assume they had saved a comfortable cushion in case of hardship, Iíd be more likely to agree with you.

In one year that 25 year old will have more liquid assets than more than 35% of all American households have in total net worth.

Short of a catastrophic medical or legal issue -- which a paltry $600 a month for a few years simply wouldn't make a bit of difference given the US legal and medical systems -- that young man will be just fine.


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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7777 on: August 21, 2020, 01:45:46 AM »
I find that Aldi's prices aren't any lower than generic, while the grocery store I get my generics at has a wider variety. It seems like Aldi's is similar to Trader Joe's in so far as most of the excitement seems to be around pre made foods and treats, with a limited selection of ingredients.
ALDI bought Trader Joes. Or they fusioned or they bought brand names rights, something like that. You can even buy Trader Joes brand in Germany (but only nuts I think).

shelivesthedream

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7778 on: August 22, 2020, 05:05:08 AM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7779 on: August 22, 2020, 06:32:18 AM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!

SwordGuy's meme, but asking your neighbor for their junk mail?

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7780 on: August 22, 2020, 08:50:51 AM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!
Next time, you can save the cores and peelings to make vinegar. It's passive, cheap and easy.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7781 on: August 22, 2020, 11:47:48 AM »
Not as much a scam as, say, "towels," or "doctors," but a scam nevertheless.

Oh crap what did I miss?

Ummm...towels? Nobody in history ever needed a "towel." Not a single "towel" ever needed to be sold--guess what I've found works: a t-shirt!!

Also, yeah, everybody knows that without the scam of "doctors" nature would take over and world population would be much, much lower and much, much healthier. So, if you care about the environment and public health, no need to look further than this bizarre long-con scam for the problem. :)

Well I'd argue that nobody in history ever needed a t-shirt because guess what else works?  A TOWEL.  That's right you got played.

You are actually quite good at this--plus found another scam--SILVERWARE! Ate my whole chicken breast and a potato today out of the no-name tupperware with my hand. Wash up afterwards and silverware revealed as scam royale.

Couldn't help but hop on this train. What is it with everyone having to have NAIL CLIPPERS?!?!?!? Our ancestors weren't stupid enough to buy and keep such useless junk... Just maintain adequate flexibility by doing yoga daily so you can chew off your toenails 1x/month like a real homo sapien. ;)

You'll be happy to know that this week I have found another scam: DRAINS! For the past three days it's been just bail the bathroom sink out into the toilet a couple times/day--cheaper than a plumber!!

shelivesthedream

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7782 on: August 22, 2020, 01:57:37 PM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!
Next time, you can save the cores and peelings to make vinegar. It's passive, cheap and easy.

Do you have a link to some instructions? Especially some with science and "why", not just what to do. I would be well up for it, but Mr SLTD might need a bit on convincing. We're likely to have more apples coming our way!

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7783 on: August 22, 2020, 05:19:59 PM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!
Next time, you can save the cores and peelings to make vinegar. It's passive, cheap and easy.

Do you have a link to some instructions? Especially some with science and "why", not just what to do. I would be well up for it, but Mr SLTD might need a bit on convincing. We're likely to have more apples coming our way!

Entire branch of apples broke and now I've got like 10 gallons that aren't quite ready to eat.  Was thinking apple sauce but vinegar might do the trick.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7784 on: August 22, 2020, 06:36:21 PM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!
Next time, you can save the cores and peelings to make vinegar. It's passive, cheap and easy.

Do you have a link to some instructions? Especially some with science and "why", not just what to do. I would be well up for it, but Mr SLTD might need a bit on convincing. We're likely to have more apples coming our way!

Entire branch of apples broke and now I've got like 10 gallons that aren't quite ready to eat.  Was thinking apple sauce but vinegar might do the trick.

Both, actually.  The vinegar uses the parts of the apple that sauce doesn't.  I've done it before - it's fun, but I don't go through enough cider vinegar to justify it, especially since it can't be used for canning as the acid concentration isn't standardized.

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7785 on: August 22, 2020, 07:21:21 PM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!
Next time, you can save the cores and peelings to make vinegar. It's passive, cheap and easy.

Do you have a link to some instructions? Especially some with science and "why", not just what to do. I would be well up for it, but Mr SLTD might need a bit on convincing. We're likely to have more apples coming our way!
I have never tried it, but I got the idea from this post. Scroll way down to the bottom. I have a corer like that, and a couple of packets of champagne yeast, so it caught my eye. Googling it is on my to-do list.

https://granolashotgun.com/2020/08/10/lazaretto-dining/

ysette9

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7786 on: August 22, 2020, 09:50:50 PM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!
Haha, somewhat in the same vein, we are looking after our neighborís house while they are camping and I wanted to clean out their guinea pigsí cage, but donít have anything resembling a newspaper to line the cage.

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7787 on: August 22, 2020, 10:28:45 PM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!
Haha, somewhat in the same vein, we are looking after our neighborís house while they are camping and I wanted to clean out their guinea pigsí cage, but donít have anything resembling a newspaper to line the cage.
Paper towels? A paper grocery bag? MPP for sure.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7788 on: August 23, 2020, 12:54:41 AM »
We've almost eliminated junk mail, we don't buy newspapers, we're as paperless as possible... and now our compost heap has too many fruit peelings from a load of free apples we got and froze and we don't have enough "browns" to put on it. Oh the humanity!
Haha, somewhat in the same vein, we are looking after our neighborís house while they are camping and I wanted to clean out their guinea pigsí cage, but donít have anything resembling a newspaper to line the cage.
Paper towels? A paper grocery bag? MPP for sure.

Neither of those work.  It's for the articles.

ysette9

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7789 on: August 23, 2020, 08:09:34 AM »
Paper grocery bag... now there is an idea

Monerexia

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7790 on: August 23, 2020, 12:21:14 PM »
Not as much a scam as, say, "towels," or "doctors," but a scam nevertheless.

Oh crap what did I miss?

Ummm...towels? Nobody in history ever needed a "towel." Not a single "towel" ever needed to be sold--guess what I've found works: a t-shirt!!

Also, yeah, everybody knows that without the scam of "doctors" nature would take over and world population would be much, much lower and much, much healthier. So, if you care about the environment and public health, no need to look further than this bizarre long-con scam for the problem. :)

Well I'd argue that nobody in history ever needed a t-shirt because guess what else works?  A TOWEL.  That's right you got played.

You are actually quite good at this--plus found another scam--SILVERWARE! Ate my whole chicken breast and a potato today out of the no-name tupperware with my hand. Wash up afterwards and silverware revealed as scam royale.

Couldn't help but hop on this train. What is it with everyone having to have NAIL CLIPPERS?!?!?!? Our ancestors weren't stupid enough to buy and keep such useless junk... Just maintain adequate flexibility by doing yoga daily so you can chew off your toenails 1x/month like a real homo sapien. ;)

You'll be happy to know that this week I have found another scam: DRAINS! For the past three days it's been just bail the bathroom sink out into the toilet a couple times/day--cheaper than a plumber!!

WOW--added bonus I have discovered--I usually flush once/day but I have found that with the bailing of the sink it flushes the toilet by itself so no need to waste that sink water ever again--who knew I had been being scammed all these years by that simple drain?!

Monerexia

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7791 on: August 24, 2020, 12:14:07 AM »
Not as much a scam as, say, "towels," or "doctors," but a scam nevertheless.

Oh crap what did I miss?

Ummm...towels? Nobody in history ever needed a "towel." Not a single "towel" ever needed to be sold--guess what I've found works: a t-shirt!!

Also, yeah, everybody knows that without the scam of "doctors" nature would take over and world population would be much, much lower and much, much healthier. So, if you care about the environment and public health, no need to look further than this bizarre long-con scam for the problem. :)

Well I'd argue that nobody in history ever needed a t-shirt because guess what else works?  A TOWEL.  That's right you got played.

You are actually quite good at this--plus found another scam--SILVERWARE! Ate my whole chicken breast and a potato today out of the no-name tupperware with my hand. Wash up afterwards and silverware revealed as scam royale.

Couldn't help but hop on this train. What is it with everyone having to have NAIL CLIPPERS?!?!?!? Our ancestors weren't stupid enough to buy and keep such useless junk... Just maintain adequate flexibility by doing yoga daily so you can chew off your toenails 1x/month like a real homo sapien. ;)

You'll be happy to know that this week I have found another scam: DRAINS! For the past three days it's been just bail the bathroom sink out into the toilet a couple times/day--cheaper than a plumber!!

WOW--added bonus I have discovered--I usually flush once/day but I have found that with the bailing of the sink it flushes the toilet by itself so no need to waste that sink water ever again--who knew I had been being scammed all these years by that simple drain?!

Guess nobody's really excited about my mensa-level hack. Weird i thought everybody would be rushing to plug their bathroom sinks and elevate me to Justin Bieber status before Q4.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7792 on: August 24, 2020, 03:45:14 AM »
I am not really sure if I understood the details... but in cramped japanese bathroms it is not that unusual to find the sink above the flush canister.

https://agonzojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/p9200576.jpg

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7793 on: August 24, 2020, 06:43:30 AM »
I am not really sure if I understood the details... but in cramped japanese bathroms it is not that unusual to find the sink above the flush canister.

https://agonzojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/p9200576.jpg
Yup, been there, seen it, used it.  It's pretty awesome--you reuse the grey water from the sink to flush the toilet.  In the installation I used, when you flush the toilet, the faucet starts running, and you use that water to wash your hands.  Basically, instead of the toilet fill valve going directly into the tank, it comes out the faucet instead.  It also happens to run for the right duration for properly washing your hands :)

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7794 on: August 24, 2020, 06:46:06 AM »
I am not really sure if I understood the details... but in cramped japanese bathroms it is not that unusual to find the sink above the flush canister.

https://agonzojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/p9200576.jpg
Yup, been there, seen it, used it.  It's pretty awesome--you reuse the grey water from the sink to flush the toilet.  In the installation I used, when you flush the toilet, the faucet starts running, and you use that water to wash your hands.  Basically, instead of the toilet fill valve going directly into the tank, it comes out the faucet instead.  It also happens to run for the right duration for properly washing your hands :)

I'm guessing that's new water coming out of the faucet, not water from the toilet.   It's early and when I first read that while somewhat bleary-eyed, you should have seen my eyes bug out of my head!

Abe

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7795 on: August 24, 2020, 01:38:02 PM »
Haha. I made a setup like that and thought it was great. My wife didn't. Should try it again with a preschooler, he may find it amazing.

Monerexia

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7796 on: August 24, 2020, 01:41:41 PM »
I am not really sure if I understood the details... but in cramped japanese bathroms it is not that unusual to find the sink above the flush canister.

https://agonzojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/p9200576.jpg

Yes yes! Looks like a bit of a reach/straddle deal, however.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7797 on: August 25, 2020, 03:44:07 AM »
I am not really sure if I understood the details... but in cramped japanese bathroms it is not that unusual to find the sink above the flush canister.

https://agonzojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/p9200576.jpg

Yes yes! Looks like a bit of a reach/straddle deal, however.
In a luxuriously big US house there is no reason to not make it sideways reachable or even detached.
The (un)funny thing though is that now that everyone has water saving toilets there is often not enough water flow in old canals, which were designed for higher flows.
Perfect example of where a good change inadvertedly turns into shit ;)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7798 on: August 25, 2020, 05:24:32 AM »
I am not really sure if I understood the details... but in cramped japanese bathroms it is not that unusual to find the sink above the flush canister.

https://agonzojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/p9200576.jpg

Yes yes! Looks like a bit of a reach/straddle deal, however.
In a luxuriously big US house there is no reason to not make it sideways reachable or even detached.
The (un)funny thing though is that now that everyone has water saving toilets there is often not enough water flow in old canals, which were designed for higher flows.
Perfect example of where a good change inadvertedly turns into shit ;)
Yup, the good ol' law of unintended consequences.  Kinda like California and solar power :)

dcheesi

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7799 on: August 25, 2020, 08:06:25 AM »
I find that Aldi's prices aren't any lower than generic, while the grocery store I get my generics at has a wider variety. It seems like Aldi's is similar to Trader Joe's in so far as most of the excitement seems to be around pre made foods and treats, with a limited selection of ingredients.
ALDI bought Trader Joes. Or they fusioned or they bought brand names rights, something like that. You can even buy Trader Joes brand in Germany (but only nuts I think).
Yes and no. The confusion stems from the fact that the original Aldi in Germany is split into two separate entities (Aldi Nord and Aldi SŁd). One of these owns ALDI in the USA, while the other owns Trader Joe's.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 08:08:02 AM by dcheesi »