Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)

[RWD]

My company overcontributed to my HSA. Again. The contribution form even has a "100%" checkbox that I used and they still messed it up... I guess I need to plan on slightly less than max since they can't seem to figure this out (even though the 401k contributions cut off at max just fine).

My company does not calculate HSA contributions or do a max cut off.  We have to be aware of our pass-through plan contribution amount, subtract that, and pick a contribution amount that doesn't go over the max.

Totally lame

Name and shame!  What company is contracted to do the payroll?  It must be a small outfit if they don't get HSA cut-offs right.

My company uses UltiPro. Wikipedia says they have 5,000+ employees, so not a small outfit at all.

[ProxyRetired]

I get paid on the 15th and 30th of each month. if the payday falls on a weekend, we get paid the Friday before. Our pay check posts to the system five days before the actual payday. I check it to see how much my check has varied. It gives me a about five days to budget/plan before the check lands.

I went to check this morning and nothing was posted. I pinged the morning HR person, who had no idea what I was talking about.

Them: "You get paid today?"
Me: "No, it publishes in the system. We get paid Friday."
Them: "Oh, I've never looked at my paystub before."
Me: "Oh. How do you know if something messed up?"
Them: "I just spend what they pay me."

[rantk81]

Them: "Oh, I've never looked at my paystub before."
Me: "Oh. How do you know if something messed up?"
Them: "I just spend what they pay me."

Holy $#!+!  That's someone in HR who is also your payroll contact?  Wow!

[LennStar]

Them: "Oh, I've never looked at my paystub before."
Me: "Oh. How do you know if something messed up?"
Them: "I just spend what they pay me."

Holy $#!+!  That's someone in HR who is also your payroll contact?  Wow!

I see a possibility of massive savings!

[SwordGuy]

So, the title of this thread is "Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)", so I'll share a story.

Years back, my wife and I were trying to understand where we were spending our money so we -- oh, heck, you know why!

I asked my wife how much she was spending on gasoline to go to work each month so I could put that into our spreadsheet.

What she didn't know is that whenever I had to run a quick errand to the store I would often use her car and fill it up with gas as an "I love you".  I had been doing this for years.

So she couldn't actually remember the last time she had gotten gasoline for her car.   I kept asking her for several months before I fessed up.

[Miss Piggy]

What she didn't know is that whenever I had to run a quick errand to the store I would often use her car and fill it up with gas as an "I love you".  I had been doing this for years.

So she couldn't actually remember the last time she had gotten gasoline for her car.   I kept asking her for several months before I fessed up.

@SwordGuy As someone who absolutely hates pumping gas, I have such a deep appreciation for this!

Full disclosure: I bought a plug-in hybrid almost solely because I hate pumping gas. That was about 9 years ago; I'm still driving that car, and I can count on one hand the number of times I pump gas in a year. And yes, usually my husband is the one actually doing the gas pumping.

[ProxyRetired]

Them: "Oh, I've never looked at my paystub before."
Me: "Oh. How do you know if something messed up?"
Them: "I just spend what they pay me."

Holy $#!+!  That's someone in HR who is also your payroll contact?  Wow!

Yep. I don't get it. They've messed up payroll before (our parent company accidently took $600 out of my check), but I've caught it before it hit my bank account.

[CatamaranSailor]

My current employer uses a truly awful company for their 401(k). I've been pushing for them to switch providers (and they seem open to the idea, just moving slowly).

So, my problem is this...open an account with the shit company or keep pushing them to switch while not being about to take advantage of a 401(k) at all? Still saving and still funding IRA's but it's truly bugging.

[Sugaree]

My company overcontributed to my HSA. Again. The contribution form even has a "100%" checkbox that I used and they still messed it up... I guess I need to plan on slightly less than max since they can't seem to figure this out (even though the 401k contributions cut off at max just fine).

My company does not calculate HSA contributions or do a max cut off.  We have to be aware of our pass-through plan contribution amount, subtract that, and pick a contribution amount that doesn't go over the max.

Mine doesn't either, but we we have at least three HDHP options that may or may not have the same passthrough amount so it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to calculate the cutoff. 

[zolotiyeruki]

My MPP:  our payroll/401k/etc company (Paychex) doesn't allow for a mega backdoor Roth. I'm finally at an income level where it's relevant to me, and I can't do it :(

[glacio09]

My MPP:  our payroll/401k/etc company (Paychex) doesn't allow for a mega backdoor Roth. I'm finally at an income level where it's relevant to me, and I can't do it :(

I think I'm approaching that level and will need to have that conversation soon.

Right now I have a problem one below that. I'm doing my first backdoor Roth IRA conversion because there's a chance with raises and bonuses I could go over the limit this year. I opened the traditional IRA account last Tuesday and moved the $6,500 in. On Friday the website said the money was in the money market account. Perfect. So I tried to move it to the Roth account. Error. I tried Monday. Error. Today (Tuesday). Error. I finally asked for help and was told that the money will fully settle on Thursday for me to move it. I have been shitting bricks for a week. This is my first time doing "advanced" loophole finances and I was so worried that I screwed up already. So thankful that I have an actual timeline now.

On a lighter note, I've been reading old journals and it is nerve wracking reading pre-2020 started journals. It's like watching a horror movie and knowing that the killer is behind the door, but you can't warn them.

[SwordGuy]

On a lighter note, I've been reading old journals and it is nerve wracking reading pre-2020 started journals. It's like watching a horror movie and knowing that the killer is behind the door, but you can't warn them.

Mine started in Dec of 2012, when I was convinced a major stock drop was due any month now, and we're still going happy despite having no idea what the market will do. :)

[RetiredAt63]

On a lighter note, I've been reading old journals and it is nerve wracking reading pre-2020 started journals. It's like watching a horror movie and knowing that the killer is behind the door, but you can't warn them.

I went to a play once that was set during WWII in Britain, and one of the main characters was a Polish Count flying with the RAF.  Pretty crummy watching, knowing what would happen to Poland after WWII when he was happily planning his return home.   I know, a fictional character, but still. 

[ixtap]

Semi retired and watching The Money Guy: realizing we are moving backwards through the financial order of operations. Depending on how carried away DH gets with a planned purchase this summer, we might not even be financial mutants any more!

[TomTX]

My current employer uses a truly awful company for their 401(k). I've been pushing for them to switch providers (and they seem open to the idea, just moving slowly).

You might remind them that legally they have a fiduciary duty to choose a reasonable provider and investment choices.

I used this approach to get our plan to switch out overpriced "target date" funds for reasonable ones: From 0.80% in expenses down to 0.08% in expenses. I used Vanguard as the example for a reputable and far more reasonably priced alternative.

https://www.employeefiduciary.com/knowledge-center/401k-fiduciary-responsibility

[Taran Wanderer]

DD's Goretex pants ripped out while adventuring on Sunday.  They are hand-me-downs from DW.  I guess when pants are old enough to legally imbibe, this sort of thing could happen.

[oneday]

DD's Goretex pants ripped out while adventuring on Sunday.  They are hand-me-downs from DW.  I guess when pants are old enough to legally imbibe, this sort of thing could happen.

Oh yeah, man. Bummer. Hope it added to the adventure, rather than cut it short.

Last time I skied with Mom, her boot cracked. That thing must have been 25 years old. I think of certain things* as being permanent (buy it for life: BIFL), but it's a rare thing that actually is.


*generally things made of glass, metal or hard plastic, etc.

[LennStar]

DD's Goretex pants ripped out while adventuring on Sunday.  They are hand-me-downs from DW.  I guess when pants are old enough to legally imbibe, this sort of thing could happen.

Oh yeah, man. Bummer. Hope it added to the adventure, rather than cut it short.

Last time I skied with Mom, her boot cracked. That thing must have been 25 years old. I think of certain things* as being permanent (buy it for life: BIFL), but it's a rare thing that actually is.


*generally things made of glass, metal or hard plastic, etc.

Ah, yes, the Vimes theory of boots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory

[BicycleB]

DD's Goretex pants ripped out while adventuring on Sunday.  They are hand-me-downs from DW.  I guess when pants are old enough to legally imbibe, this sort of thing could happen.

Oh yeah, man. Bummer. Hope it added to the adventure, rather than cut it short.

Re bolded - perhaps it did both, so to speak! (ha ha)

[Taran Wanderer]

Yeah, I asked DW if she wanted to convert the pants to GoreTex shorts.  She politely declined.

[Alternatepriorities]

DD's Goretex pants ripped out while adventuring on Sunday.  They are hand-me-downs from DW.  I guess when pants are old enough to legally imbibe, this sort of thing could happen.

I have a pair of REI pants I fear this will happen to any day down. They're 18 years old now and have been my favorite pants for many activities. At this point I mostly use them for wood cutting and working in the shop because they are in rough shape, but they haven't actually failed (I've replaced the zipper twice).

[dragoncar]

DD's Goretex pants ripped out while adventuring on Sunday.  They are hand-me-downs from DW.  I guess when pants are old enough to legally imbibe, this sort of thing could happen.

I have a pair of REI pants I fear this will happen to any day down. They're 18 years old now and have been my favorite pants for many activities. At this point I mostly use them for wood cutting and working in the shop because they are in rough shape, but they haven't actually failed (I've replaced the zipper twice).

My 20+ year northface jacket has a hole in the pocket.  I can repair it, but the fleece is all matted now and not as warm as it used to be.  Not able to trade it in because I got it at the outlet and whatever pen they used to color in the tag has held up quite well 

[merula]

My 20+ year northface jacket has a hole in the pocket.  I can repair it, but the fleece is all matted now and not as warm as it used to be.  Not able to trade it in because I got it at the outlet and whatever pen they used to color in the tag has held up quite well

Well, you definitely shouldn't use rubbing alcohol to get out sharpie stains for the purpose of holding a for-profit greenwasher to their return policies. That sounds almost anti-capitalist.

[ColoradoTribe]

Before I FIRED, I was working at my desk one day in February when the company beancounter knocked at my door. With a rather confused look on her face she asked me why I hadn’t cashed my year-end bonus check that the boss ceremoniously hand delivered to each employee at the end of December. It was a sizable amount and clearly this was not an issue she had ever encountered before. I was a bit embarrassed. I was very appreciative of the bonus and didn’t want to seem ungrateful, but the simple truth is I had placed it in a desk drawer and forgotten it. There was no hiding from her that the absence of the sizable payment went unnoticed by me. Most folks have spent their bonus (ala Clark Griswald) before they receive it and rush to cash it. I’ll never forget the befuddled look on her face to my sheepish response that I simply “forgot” to cash it.

[BicycleB]

Before I FIRED, I was working at my desk one day in February when the company beancounter knocked at my door. With a rather confused look on her face she asked me why I hadn’t cashed my year-end bonus check that the boss ceremoniously hand delivered to each employee at the end of December. It was a sizable amount and clearly this was not an issue she had ever encountered before. I was a bit embarrassed. I was very appreciative of the bonus and didn’t want to seem ungrateful, but the simple truth is I had placed it in a desk drawer and forgotten it. There was no hiding from her that the absence of the sizable payment went unnoticed by me. Most folks have spent their bonus (ala Clark Griswald) before they receive it and rush to cash it. I’ll never forget the befuddled look on her face to my sheepish response that I simply “forgot” to cash it.
[/quote

Lol, that's priceless!

Though I guess you could say it cost you the forgone investment returns for the period.

[never give up]

Last week I went out for my first meal in a restaurant with friends since before the pandemic. I've been locked down caring for elderly parents in that time. Three years of absence really brought home to me how much food inflation has been an issue what with the war and pandemic combo. I was used to steaks being £18-£20 but now they were £32. That also didn't include a side. Ouch.

Being Mustachian I calculated that a steak meal was roughly going to cost me 0.4% of my annual expenses. There's only so much I would pay for a meal. I can cook steak myself for considerably less than that. I realised I wanted to look for something on the menu that was closer to 0.2% of my annual expenses. It then dawned on me that only probably a small subset of Mustachian's would look at a menu and mentally convert the items into an annual expense percentage! That's really weird and not the done thing. I haven't done this before with any item. What was I thinking? This wasn't something I consciously wanted to calculate. Why was my brain automatically doing this for me? Most of all I I feared I would be pulling my "maths face" while performing those calculations.

I'm not great at maths and doing sums in my head. So this week my Mustachian People Problem was the likelihood that I was unconsciously pulling my slightly deranged/puzzled maths face in front of other people in a public place, while converting menu items into an annual expense percentage. There really is no hope for me. If I wasn't Mustachian I would have at least looked normal!

[LennStar]

Was shopping this morning. Toast bread finally 100% (rounded) more than before the inflation. Other stuff not that much, but this reall hits home how big the difference is between the products.

For never give up's problem, I sometimes think about going out and then say to myself "I can buy food for 5 days for the same amount of money. One meal is not worth that much."

[Alternatepriorities]

Being Mustachian I calculated that a steak meal was roughly going to cost me 0.4% of my annual expenses. There's only so much I would pay for a meal. I can cook steak myself for considerably less than that. I realised I wanted to look for something on the menu that was closer to 0.2% of my annual expenses. It then dawned on me that only probably a small subset of Mustachian's would look at a menu and mentally convert the items into an annual expense percentage! That's really weird and not the done thing. I haven't done this before with any item. What was I thinking? This wasn't something I consciously wanted to calculate. Why was my brain automatically doing this for me? Most of all I I feared I would be pulling my "maths face" while performing those calculations.

I'm not great at maths and doing sums in my head. So this week my Mustachian People Problem was the likelihood that I was unconsciously pulling my slightly deranged/puzzled maths face in front of other people in a public place, while converting menu items into an annual expense percentage. There really is no hope for me. If I wasn't Mustachian I would have at least looked normal!

I've never done it with a meal out before, just with larger ticket items. I'd have to have a hunch the item was going to break 1% before I'd have much chance of thinking about it. I'm almost always running some kind of numbers in my head... maybe that's why I always look awkward in selfies! :) Also, I'm massively impressed that a meal out is that large of a percent of your budget.

[Alternatepriorities]

Was shopping this morning. Toast bread finally 100% (rounded) more than before the inflation. Other stuff not that much, but this reall hits home how big the difference is between the products.

It's been really fascinating watching the price of different items. Butter dropped in price the in the summer of 2020, but it's been going up ever since and is now more than twice what it was in 2019. Meanwhile milk is nearly the same price at the stores that use it as a loss leader but has climbed maybe 20% where they don't. My favorite cheese is up about 25%. Eggs stayed constant and then jumped 30% in the last two months. In general our groceries are up about 30% well above the official inflation numbers.

[never give up]

Phew I’m glad it’s not just me that suffers from “maths face” Alternatepriorities :-)

Items of 1% or higher makes sense. I’ve no idea why my mind jumped to this. I think it was because I hadn’t been out in so long. It’s great to hear you continually run lots of numbers through your head though.

[ixtap]

Transferred extra funds from checking to savings this morning. The water heater sprung a leak within the hour. That is, the water pump seemed to be going off a little more than usual, but then suddenly started running several times an hour without anyone using any water.

[charis]

Transferred extra funds from checking to savings this morning. The water heater sprung a leak within the hour. That is, the water pump seemed to be going off a little more than usual, but then suddenly started running several times an hour without anyone using any water.

This always happens to me!  Anytime we accumulate some extra dough in the checking account and I execute some type of transfer, a largish cost pops out of the woodwoork.  It always makes me grateful that I set up an auto savings deduction years ago that never hits the checking account and doesn't even register as part of our regular income.  Gotta make your own "luck" as it were.

I got one that makes me chuckle when I log into spouse's retirement account.  The "Retirement Readiness" feature is completely out of wack because spouse front loads contributions at almost 2k a pay period starting in Jan.  The calculator says spouse is "on track" to get $14k/mo month starting at age 55, but there will be a shortfall of 11k because based on the info they have, spouse will need $25k/mo!  I think we broke this feature.

[rantk81]

The calculator says spouse is "on track" to get $14k/mo month starting at age 55, but there will be a shortfall of 11k because based on the info they have, spouse will need $25k/mo!  I think we broke this feature.

Most online retirement calculators are incapable of providing any useful projections for mustachians, since they make assumptions of spending based on income levels.  They aren't aware of the Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement.

Some notable exceptions are cfiresim and firecalc.

[charis]

The calculator says spouse is "on track" to get $14k/mo month starting at age 55, but there will be a shortfall of 11k because based on the info they have, spouse will need $25k/mo!  I think we broke this feature.

Most online retirement calculators are incapable of providing any useful projections for mustachians, since they make assumptions of spending based on income levels...

True, this one must be making an income calculation based on the monthly contribution amount, because we didn't input any income info.  How does it get to my spouse needing over 2 mil/yr in retirement income?

[RWD]

My company overcontributed to my HSA. Again. The contribution form even has a "100%" checkbox that I used and they still messed it up... I guess I need to plan on slightly less than max since they can't seem to figure this out (even though the 401k contributions cut off at max just fine).

My company does not calculate HSA contributions or do a max cut off.  We have to be aware of our pass-through plan contribution amount, subtract that, and pick a contribution amount that doesn't go over the max.

Totally lame

Name and shame!  What company is contracted to do the payroll?  It must be a small outfit if they don't get HSA cut-offs right.

My company uses UltiPro. Wikipedia says they have 5,000+ employees, so not a small outfit at all.

More follow-up on my HSA saga... HSA Bank has a new interface but still has links which use the old interface. Sometimes the same information is available on both sides. The new interface says I over-contributed by ~$20. The old interface says I over-contributed by 14 cents... The 14 cents number matches my own accounting and is probably fine for tax-filing purposes but still annoying.

But then... I just checked my W-2 form and it says I over-contributed by more than $300! Good grief, I don't even know how they could be that far off. I sent an e-mail to our accounting department, hopefully they can just issue me a corrected W-2.

[LennStar]

The calculator says spouse is "on track" to get $14k/mo month starting at age 55, but there will be a shortfall of 11k because based on the info they have, spouse will need $25k/mo!  I think we broke this feature.

Most online retirement calculators are incapable of providing any useful projections for mustachians, since they make assumptions of spending based on income levels...

True, this one must be making an income calculation based on the monthly contribution amount, because we didn't input any income info.  How does it get to my spouse needing over 2 mil/yr in retirement income?

This is known for programmers as the garbage model (of simulation). Garbage in, garbage out.

This can also be found at questionaires. If you find a headline like "90% of people like..."without the question asked (and the circumstances) it's utterly useless. There are things even (or especially) in the political field where the question asked determines if you get 90% for or 90% against something.

[Sandi_k]

Some notable exceptions are cfiresim and firecalc.

I also quite like the free version of the New Retirement retirement calculator. Web based, has one time windfalls, allows pension + investments + 2 Social Securities, etc.

[TomTX]

The calculator says spouse is "on track" to get $14k/mo month starting at age 55, but there will be a shortfall of 11k because based on the info they have, spouse will need $25k/mo!  I think we broke this feature.

Most online retirement calculators are incapable of providing any useful projections for mustachians, since they make assumptions of spending based on income levels.  They aren't aware of the Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement.

Some notable exceptions are cfiresim and firecalc.

My personal preference is the "Rich, Broke or Dead" calculator: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

For me it really puts the "OMY" into perspective.

[rantk81]

My personal preference is the "Rich, Broke or Dead" calculator: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

For me it really puts the "OMY" into perspective.

The whole thing is either green or grey for me... Guess that means I probably shouldn't still be working :(

[TomTX]

My personal preference is the "Rich, Broke or Dead" calculator: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

For me it really puts the "OMY" into perspective.

The whole thing is either green or grey for me... Guess that means I probably shouldn't still be working :(

Well, you shouldn't be working at something that doesn't bring you joy/satisfaction/etc.

[Miss Piggy]

My personal preference is the "Rich, Broke or Dead" calculator: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

For me it really puts the "OMY" into perspective.

The whole thing is either green or grey for me... Guess that means I probably shouldn't still be working :(

Same. But dangit, I'm finally getting to do the work I've wanted to do for the past 15 years, and they're paying me well to do it.

New movie idea based on this graph: Shades of Green

[GuitarStv]

My personal preference is the "Rich, Broke or Dead" calculator: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

For me it really puts the "OMY" into perspective.

The whole thing is either green or grey for me... Guess that means I probably shouldn't still be working :(

Same. But dangit, I'm finally getting to do the work I've wanted to do for the past 15 years, and they're paying me well to do it.

New movie idea based on this graph: Shades of Green

I'm kinda blown away by how much of a difference spending flexibility makes to outcomes.

[TomTX]

My personal preference is the "Rich, Broke or Dead" calculator: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

For me it really puts the "OMY" into perspective.

The whole thing is either green or grey for me... Guess that means I probably shouldn't still be working :(

Same. But dangit, I'm finally getting to do the work I've wanted to do for the past 15 years, and they're paying me well to do it.

New movie idea based on this graph: Shades of Green

SWAMI is a perfectly cromulent answer. Having FIRE money doesn't mean you can't work (the FI part) but doesn't mandate that you can't work at something you enjoy/gives satisfaction.

[TomTX]

I'm kinda blown away by how much of a difference spending flexibility makes to outcomes.

Yea, it's huge. If you can flex your 4% (or more!**) WR down* to 3.5% when your portfolio is down - it's almost the same as a 3.5% WR. Huge difference in QoL.

*Maybe you can exchange that luxury Europe trip for camping in US National Parks with an annual pass. Maybe you pick up part time hours at the local coffee shop/whatever. Maybe you do some Craiglist/eBay/Yard Sale/Whatever arbitrage.

** Seriously, look at how going to a 5% WR with flex down to 3.5% is not very different from 4% with flex down to 3.5%

[Alternatepriorities]

I'm kinda blown away by how much of a difference spending flexibility makes to outcomes.

Yea, it's huge. If you can flex your 4% (or more!**) WR down* to 3.5% when your portfolio is down - it's almost the same as a 3.5% WR. Huge difference in QoL.

*Maybe you can exchange that luxury Europe trip for camping in US National Parks with an annual pass. Maybe you pick up part time hours at the local coffee shop/whatever. Maybe you do some Craiglist/eBay/Yard Sale/Whatever arbitrage.

** Seriously, look at how going to a 5% WR with flex down to 3.5% is not very different from 4% with flex down to 3.5%

This was a big part of my calculations. Knowing that we could flex our spending 25% for a few years without really degrading the overall quality of our retirement years is huge. Yeah I don't want to be lean for the rest of my life, but it seems better to maybe work a little later or maybe have to skip a trip than to definitely spend more years doing something I wasn't enjoying now.

[Sugaree]

I noticed today that it's payday and my net worth was higher yesterday morning than this morning due to the market doing down more than I got paid.  It's not a problem, I just think it's funny that I've now reached the point where relatively small market movements are having a bigger impact on my NW than my full-time employment income.

[rantk81]

I noticed today that it's payday and my net worth was higher yesterday morning than this morning due to the market doing down more than I got paid.  It's not a problem, I just think it's funny that I've now reached the point where relatively small market movements are having a bigger impact on my NW than my full-time employment income.

One day those daily fluctuations will be bigger than your entire year base salary  :D

[Sugaree]

I noticed today that it's payday and my net worth was higher yesterday morning than this morning due to the market doing down more than I got paid.  It's not a problem, I just think it's funny that I've now reached the point where relatively small market movements are having a bigger impact on my NW than my full-time employment income.

One day those daily fluctuations will be bigger than your entire year base salary  :D

Maybe.  I'm not sure that I'll stick around to build up a portfolio that big. 

[Alternatepriorities]

I noticed today that it's payday and my net worth was higher yesterday morning than this morning due to the market doing down more than I got paid.  It's not a problem, I just think it's funny that I've now reached the point where relatively small market movements are having a bigger impact on my NW than my full-time employment income.

One day those daily fluctuations will be bigger than your entire year base salary  :D

Maybe.  I'm not sure that I'll stick around to build up a portfolio that big.

I remember when that started happening on a regular basis. Obviously it’s more fun when it’s going up, “oh look I took the day off and still made two weeks pay today”.

[TreeLeaf]

I routinely don't don't drive my car for weeks at a time.

One time the battery died and now I'm paranoid about leaving it sit for too long but also too cheap to buy a battery tender so I try to drive it every few weeks even if I don't strictly need to.