Author Topic: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)  (Read 3236342 times)

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7850 on: August 27, 2020, 09:20:37 AM »
Made such a big principal paydown on my mortgage that the system couldn't handle the desired amount.  Had to split it into two transactions over two days to make it work.

That sounds like a fun mustachian challenge.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7851 on: August 27, 2020, 09:37:46 AM »
Made such a big principal paydown on my mortgage that the system couldn't handle the desired amount.  Had to split it into two transactions over two days to make it work.

So sorry you're going through this...
So am I, but probably for different reasons ;-)

@Dicey , I even have the go-ahead to pay off my mortgage from over in your favorite thread...

Already fired.  Plenty of net worth.   Big stock portfolio I don't need to use for routine expenses so I can grow it for the future.  With this mortgage paid off we'll have a 0% SWR.   A budget surplus from non-stock income I can invest.  And I cut my annual expenses by another $1400 a month once it's paid off, which will increase our quality of life quite nicely.   

I don't need more wealth.   We're giving to charity.

We're selling another house which will pay off the mortgage right away, and if it doesn't sell, we'll still be done within a year.

At this point I want to simplify my life.   

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7852 on: August 27, 2020, 11:00:45 AM »
My MPP: I now have a credit. I never intended to get a credit. But it have now.

Because it is effectivly 1,5% interest per year for the sum, for ten years.
So if I put it in index funds, at 4% withdrawel rate, I make 1,5% profit after taxes. Not to mention if I don't sell and let compound interest work on that 4%, too.

It is not only more expensive to sell investments than to get a credit, it is actually more expensive to not have a credit at all!

BicycleB

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7853 on: August 27, 2020, 01:20:26 PM »
Made such a big principal paydown on my mortgage that the system couldn't handle the desired amount.  Had to split it into two transactions over two days to make it work.

Ha!

You have fulfilled your screen name. Because you sliced the payment in two. Swoosh!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 09:26:02 PM by BicycleB »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7854 on: August 27, 2020, 02:20:10 PM »
I am not really sure if I understood the details... but in cramped japanese bathroms it is not that unusual to find the sink above the flush canister.

https://agonzojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/p9200576.jpg

Yes yes! Looks like a bit of a reach/straddle deal, however.
In a luxuriously big US house there is no reason to not make it sideways reachable or even detached.
The (un)funny thing though is that now that everyone has water saving toilets there is often not enough water flow in old canals, which were designed for higher flows.
Perfect example of where a good change inadvertedly turns into shit ;)
Yup, the good ol' law of unintended consequences.  Kinda like California and solar power :)

What happened with solar power?
The state has been transitioning away from fossil fuels to renewables, which is great as long as you retain enough of the former to supply power when the latter is insufficient.  In short, a few days ago, California had an unusually hot day followed by an unusually hot evening.  All the solar panels stopped generating when the sun went down, but everyone was still running their A/C.  The remaining plants in California couldn't keep up, and there wasn't enough surplus available from surrounding states, so they experienced rolling blackouts.

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7855 on: August 27, 2020, 02:42:13 PM »
I am not really sure if I understood the details... but in cramped japanese bathroms it is not that unusual to find the sink above the flush canister.

https://agonzojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/p9200576.jpg

Yes yes! Looks like a bit of a reach/straddle deal, however.
In a luxuriously big US house there is no reason to not make it sideways reachable or even detached.
The (un)funny thing though is that now that everyone has water saving toilets there is often not enough water flow in old canals, which were designed for higher flows.
Perfect example of where a good change inadvertedly turns into shit ;)
Yup, the good ol' law of unintended consequences.  Kinda like California and solar power :)

What happened with solar power?
The state has been transitioning away from fossil fuels to renewables, which is great as long as you retain enough of the former to supply power when the latter is insufficient.  In short, a few days ago, California had an unusually hot day followed by an unusually hot evening.  All the solar panels stopped generating when the sun went down, but everyone was still running their A/C.  The remaining plants in California couldn't keep up, and there wasn't enough surplus available from surrounding states, so they experienced rolling blackouts.

CA has always had rolling blackouts (or worse, just catastrophic blackouts) during extreme heat waves, since before solar was prevalent.

Sibley

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7856 on: August 27, 2020, 04:44:14 PM »
I am not really sure if I understood the details... but in cramped japanese bathroms it is not that unusual to find the sink above the flush canister.

https://agonzojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/p9200576.jpg

Yes yes! Looks like a bit of a reach/straddle deal, however.
In a luxuriously big US house there is no reason to not make it sideways reachable or even detached.
The (un)funny thing though is that now that everyone has water saving toilets there is often not enough water flow in old canals, which were designed for higher flows.
Perfect example of where a good change inadvertedly turns into shit ;)
Yup, the good ol' law of unintended consequences.  Kinda like California and solar power :)

What happened with solar power?
The state has been transitioning away from fossil fuels to renewables, which is great as long as you retain enough of the former to supply power when the latter is insufficient.  In short, a few days ago, California had an unusually hot day followed by an unusually hot evening.  All the solar panels stopped generating when the sun went down, but everyone was still running their A/C.  The remaining plants in California couldn't keep up, and there wasn't enough surplus available from surrounding states, so they experienced rolling blackouts.

CA has always had rolling blackouts (or worse, just catastrophic blackouts) during extreme heat waves, since before solar was prevalent.

I was going to say, CA's had electrical craziness for much longer than solar's been around. I don't think it's fair to blame solar, when the system as a whole is clearly subject to extremes in demand AND has struggled for a long time to balance it.

crocheted_stache

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7857 on: August 27, 2020, 04:47:31 PM »
Attempted such a big principal paydown on my mortgage that I ran into both the transaction and the monthly limits for online bill pay. Came here to "complain" about the MPP and found this.

Made such a big principal paydown on my mortgage that the system couldn't handle the desired amount.  Had to split it into two transactions over two days to make it work.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7858 on: August 27, 2020, 05:47:35 PM »
Attempted such a big principal paydown on my mortgage that I ran into both the transaction and the monthly limits for online bill pay. Came here to "complain" about the MPP and found this.

Made such a big principal paydown on my mortgage that the system couldn't handle the desired amount.  Had to split it into two transactions over two days to make it work.

I'm so very happy you have the same problem, @crocheted_stache !

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7859 on: August 27, 2020, 05:54:30 PM »
We were discussing some charitable giving and an upcoming match deadline (charity matches are to DH what sales are to a shopaholic).

-Don't procrastinate.
-I'm not procrastinating, I am managing cash flow.

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7860 on: August 27, 2020, 09:53:52 PM »
Made such a big principal paydown on my mortgage that the system couldn't handle the desired amount.  Had to split it into two transactions over two days to make it work.

So sorry you're going through this...
So am I, but probably for different reasons ;-)

@Dicey , I even have the go-ahead to pay off my mortgage from over in your favorite thread...

Already fired.  Plenty of net worth.   Big stock portfolio I don't need to use for routine expenses so I can grow it for the future.  With this mortgage paid off we'll have a 0% SWR.   A budget surplus from non-stock income I can invest.  And I cut my annual expenses by another $1400 a month once it's paid off, which will increase our quality of life quite nicely.   

I don't need more wealth.   We're giving to charity.

We're selling another house which will pay off the mortgage right away, and if it doesn't sell, we'll still be done within a year.

At this point I want to simplify my life.
I am consistently in awe of the people who exhibit sharp humor on this site. Two of my quick-witted idols are @snacky and @dragoncar. Occasionally, I think I have something funny to say, like the comment quoted above. Clearly, I am not in their league.

@SwordGuy, you know I'm a fangirl. I wasn't dissing you.

But since you provided this level of detail, I think it's a great way for others to see what's been discussed at length on the other thread. Once you hit FIRE, the question of mortgage or no mortgage becomes less important, IMO. The primary reason not to pay off a mortgage early is the risk of leaving other important buckets unfilled. (See: Investment Order sticky) Loading up on all the tax-deferred and taxable investments as early as possible means they do the heavy lifting for you, which is pretty darn amazing, as you well know ;-)


SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7861 on: August 27, 2020, 10:02:07 PM »
Made such a big principal paydown on my mortgage that the system couldn't handle the desired amount.  Had to split it into two transactions over two days to make it work.

So sorry you're going through this...
So am I, but probably for different reasons ;-)

@Dicey , I even have the go-ahead to pay off my mortgage from over in your favorite thread...

Already fired.  Plenty of net worth.   Big stock portfolio I don't need to use for routine expenses so I can grow it for the future.  With this mortgage paid off we'll have a 0% SWR.   A budget surplus from non-stock income I can invest.  And I cut my annual expenses by another $1400 a month once it's paid off, which will increase our quality of life quite nicely.   

I don't need more wealth.   We're giving to charity.

We're selling another house which will pay off the mortgage right away, and if it doesn't sell, we'll still be done within a year.

At this point I want to simplify my life.
I am consistently in awe of the people who exhibit sharp humor on this site. Two of my quick-witted idols are @snacky and @dragoncar. Occasionally, I think I have something funny to say, like the comment quoted above. Clearly, I am not in their league.

@SwordGuy, you know I'm a fangirl. I wasn't dissing you.

But since you provided this level of detail, I think it's a great way for others to see what's been discussed at length on the other thread. Once you hit FIRE, the question of mortgage or no mortgage becomes less important, IMO. The primary reason not to pay off a mortgage early is the risk of leaving other important buckets unfilled. (See: Investment Order sticky) Loading up on all the tax-deferred and taxable investments as early as possible means they do the heavy lifting for you, which is pretty darn amazing, as you well know ;-)

Oh, I knew you were making a joke!    I actually agree with the "Don't Pay Off Your Mortgage" policy whilst building wealth.    I passed on 3 or 4 opportunities to pay off the last mortgage early 'cause y'all convinced me.   But now, meh, I'm fired and rich and I'm ready to be done with it. :)

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7862 on: August 28, 2020, 12:01:19 AM »

Oh, I knew you were making a joke!    I actually agree with the "Don't Pay Off Your Mortgage" policy whilst building wealth.    I passed on 3 or 4 opportunities to pay off the last mortgage early 'cause y'all convinced me.   But now, meh, I'm fired and rich and I'm ready to be done with it. :)

Iíve really come around to this way of thinking as weíve approached FI. First it was paying off the fairly low interest rate student loans. Now Iím really starting to like to idea of killing the cash flow requirement that is our mortgage.

Plina

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7863 on: August 28, 2020, 04:07:43 AM »

Oh, I knew you were making a joke!    I actually agree with the "Don't Pay Off Your Mortgage" policy whilst building wealth.    I passed on 3 or 4 opportunities to pay off the last mortgage early 'cause y'all convinced me.   But now, meh, I'm fired and rich and I'm ready to be done with it. :)

Iíve really come around to this way of thinking as weíve approached FI. First it was paying off the fairly low interest rate student loans. Now Iím really starting to like to idea of killing the cash flow requirement that is our mortgage.

I find this a struggle, not for the mortgage,, but for low interest rate student loans. I could pay them off now or within a year if I wanted to use cash flow but with an interest rate of 0,16 % it makes absolutely no sense. So now I have created a FU-investment account for it and my plan OS to make extra payments there. When I have an amount that exceeds the loan I will probably pay it off, because I really hate the payments. This way I take advantage of the market but donít significantly slow my fire.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7864 on: August 28, 2020, 04:27:39 AM »
In short, a few days ago, California had an unusually hot day followed by an unusually hot evening.  All the solar panels stopped generating when the sun went down, but everyone was still running their A/C.  The remaining plants in California couldn't keep up, and there wasn't enough surplus available from surrounding states, so they experienced rolling blackouts.
What you described here is not a problem of renewables but a problem of not enough energy storage (or too unreliable energy use). The same is true for conventional power plants.
In fact you would be totally right if you say that all the conventional power plants are blocking the energy grid.

With conventional power plants you need to store energy at night because they can't be powered down and up fast enough to comply with demand, so they deliver too much energy.
With renewables you need to store energy (not only at night, but mostly there if you have a an overweight on PV) because they deliver not enough energy (until you have more production capabilities).


edit: I may add a connected MPP problem: Because of the big Old Energy companies lobbying effort's it has become such an hassle to sell a few hundred kWH of energy a year, you buy a battery to use all yourself even if that is more expensive and more wasteful for the environment.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 04:30:14 AM by LennStar »

talltexan

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7865 on: August 28, 2020, 06:14:25 AM »
My son's school asked us to pick up some learning materials between 8:30 and 10 am yesterday morning. I arrived on my bike, and the teacher who was distributing them asked me if my backpack would be large enough to hold everything she had to give me.

It was, but I started sweating on the ride back to my house. Had to leave the backpack outside, and handed my family this sweaty magazine box of school supplies.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7866 on: August 28, 2020, 08:16:10 AM »
In short, a few days ago, California had an unusually hot day followed by an unusually hot evening.  All the solar panels stopped generating when the sun went down, but everyone was still running their A/C.  The remaining plants in California couldn't keep up, and there wasn't enough surplus available from surrounding states, so they experienced rolling blackouts.
What you described here is not a problem of renewables but a problem of not enough energy storage (or too unreliable energy use). The same is true for conventional power plants.
In fact you would be totally right if you say that all the conventional power plants are blocking the energy grid.

With conventional power plants you need to store energy at night because they can't be powered down and up fast enough to comply with demand, so they deliver too much energy.
With renewables you need to store energy (not only at night, but mostly there if you have a an overweight on PV) because they deliver not enough energy (until you have more production capabilities).

edit: I may add a connected MPP problem: Because of the big Old Energy companies lobbying effort's it has become such an hassle to sell a few hundred kWH of energy a year, you buy a battery to use all yourself even if that is more expensive and more wasteful for the environment.
We're dragging the thread OT here, but I feel like a few things need clarification:
--I mean that it's the shift toward solar and away from fossil fuels that caused it, not the mere presence of solar power
--I'm not sure where you got the impression that conventional power generation requires storage.  That's simply not true.  Natural gas-powered plants can ramp up basically instantaneously, and hence need no storage.  Hydroelectric is the same, although you could argue that hydroelectric *is* stored energy :) Coal is pretty quick, too.  Nuclear is slow (significant fractions of an hour to ramp up/down).

The issue of selling back energy has been heavily discussed in other threads, but the problem is that consumers expect to have their cake and eat it too, when it comes to solar.  They want to get paid (or credited) full retail cost of the electricity they generate, but also expect the Old Energy companies to maintain enough generation capacity to supply the grid when PV generation is weak and demand is high.  Big Old Energy then is expected to purchase and maintain equipment which then sits underutilized (i.e. not earning money) a lot of the time.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7867 on: August 28, 2020, 10:30:39 AM »
Quote
I'm not sure where you got the impression that conventional power generation requires storage.  That's simply not true.

Then I wonder why both day and longer time storage has been build since many decades. Hm...

Quote
Coal is pretty quick, too.
If you want to waste a lot of energy. And be a total CO2 asshole and poison spreader.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7868 on: August 28, 2020, 10:52:28 AM »
In short, a few days ago, California had an unusually hot day followed by an unusually hot evening.  All the solar panels stopped generating when the sun went down, but everyone was still running their A/C.  The remaining plants in California couldn't keep up, and there wasn't enough surplus available from surrounding states, so they experienced rolling blackouts.
What you described here is not a problem of renewables but a problem of not enough energy storage (or too unreliable energy use). The same is true for conventional power plants.
In fact you would be totally right if you say that all the conventional power plants are blocking the energy grid.

With conventional power plants you need to store energy at night because they can't be powered down and up fast enough to comply with demand, so they deliver too much energy.
With renewables you need to store energy (not only at night, but mostly there if you have a an overweight on PV) because they deliver not enough energy (until you have more production capabilities).

edit: I may add a connected MPP problem: Because of the big Old Energy companies lobbying effort's it has become such an hassle to sell a few hundred kWH of energy a year, you buy a battery to use all yourself even if that is more expensive and more wasteful for the environment.
We're dragging the thread OT here, but I feel like a few things need clarification:
--I mean that it's the shift toward solar and away from fossil fuels that caused it, not the mere presence of solar power
--I'm not sure where you got the impression that conventional power generation requires storage.  That's simply not true.  Natural gas-powered plants can ramp up basically instantaneously, and hence need no storage.  Hydroelectric is the same, although you could argue that hydroelectric *is* stored energy :) Coal is pretty quick, too.  Nuclear is slow (significant fractions of an hour to ramp up/down).

The issue of selling back energy has been heavily discussed in other threads, but the problem is that consumers expect to have their cake and eat it too, when it comes to solar.  They want to get paid (or credited) full retail cost of the electricity they generate, but also expect the Old Energy companies to maintain enough generation capacity to supply the grid when PV generation is weak and demand is high.  Big Old Energy then is expected to purchase and maintain equipment which then sits underutilized (i.e. not earning money) a lot of the time.

In the US, nuclear (~20% of electricity) does not "load follow" or change power unless absolutely necessary.   
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR). Same thing with nuclear powered naval vessels (almost said "nucwear wessels") which obviously need to change power levels on demand.   
You can change power levels on a GE Boiling Water Reactor (BWR) but it is trickier, as some power levels are harder to maintain (the exclusion zone).  US has 64 PWRs and 32 BWRs.

talltexan

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7869 on: August 28, 2020, 11:17:49 AM »
More posts like this please, this is really interesting!

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7870 on: August 28, 2020, 12:00:47 PM »
In short, a few days ago, California had an unusually hot day followed by an unusually hot evening.  All the solar panels stopped generating when the sun went down, but everyone was still running their A/C.  The remaining plants in California couldn't keep up, and there wasn't enough surplus available from surrounding states, so they experienced rolling blackouts.
What you described here is not a problem of renewables but a problem of not enough energy storage (or too unreliable energy use). The same is true for conventional power plants.
In fact you would be totally right if you say that all the conventional power plants are blocking the energy grid.

With conventional power plants you need to store energy at night because they can't be powered down and up fast enough to comply with demand, so they deliver too much energy.
With renewables you need to store energy (not only at night, but mostly there if you have a an overweight on PV) because they deliver not enough energy (until you have more production capabilities).

edit: I may add a connected MPP problem: Because of the big Old Energy companies lobbying effort's it has become such an hassle to sell a few hundred kWH of energy a year, you buy a battery to use all yourself even if that is more expensive and more wasteful for the environment.
We're dragging the thread OT here, but I feel like a few things need clarification:
--I mean that it's the shift toward solar and away from fossil fuels that caused it, not the mere presence of solar power
--I'm not sure where you got the impression that conventional power generation requires storage.  That's simply not true.  Natural gas-powered plants can ramp up basically instantaneously, and hence need no storage.  Hydroelectric is the same, although you could argue that hydroelectric *is* stored energy :) Coal is pretty quick, too.  Nuclear is slow (significant fractions of an hour to ramp up/down).

The issue of selling back energy has been heavily discussed in other threads, but the problem is that consumers expect to have their cake and eat it too, when it comes to solar.  They want to get paid (or credited) full retail cost of the electricity they generate, but also expect the Old Energy companies to maintain enough generation capacity to supply the grid when PV generation is weak and demand is high.  Big Old Energy then is expected to purchase and maintain equipment which then sits underutilized (i.e. not earning money) a lot of the time.

In the US, nuclear (~20% of electricity) does not "load follow" or change power unless absolutely necessary.   
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR). Same thing with nuclear powered naval vessels (almost said "nucwear wessels") which obviously need to change power levels on demand.   
You can change power levels on a GE Boiling Water Reactor (BWR) but it is trickier, as some power levels are harder to maintain (the exclusion zone).  US has 64 PWRs and 32 BWRs.
Ah, you're right, thanks for the correction!

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7871 on: August 28, 2020, 12:01:46 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7872 on: August 28, 2020, 12:44:08 PM »
Home energy report consistently says we are using nearly 20% more energy than last year. We are still in the efficiency zone most months and have probably cut the use of gas for the cars by far more than that, but still...

markbike528CBX

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7873 on: August 28, 2020, 01:02:11 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.

I don't agree with your statements.

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/electricity-export-france/
France exports 9.3% (of French electrical generation).
Germany exports 5.7% (of German electrical generation)

The report suggests Germany was Europeís second-largest net exporter and was the second biggest market for Franceís exports during the period.. (ie Germany is an importer too)

Imports of electricity to France represent 0.5% of demand.

Imports of electricity to Germany represent 1.0 % of demand.

So imports to either Germany or France are local load balancing, not major stuff.

Many French reactors on rivers use air cooling, with minimal water input, and the water temperature is a minor factor. This is make up water for the water lost in evaporative cooling in the cooling towers. 
Of course if the water level is too low, you can't get (or are forbidden from getting) that make-up water.

The majority of nuclear plants in France are located away from the coasts and obtain their cooling water from rivers. These plants employ cooling towers to reduce their impact on the environment. 
via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

Exceptions to the river water use for direct cooling include Fessenheim (on the Rhine Canal), to German irritation :-)

I looked up the cooling vs source on Wikipedia, and have been to (worked at) Cattenom, Chinon, Belleville, all of which use air cooling (evaporative), and to Fessenheim.

I've also been to Philippsburg (worked there during Unit 1 decommissioning) and Isar (just a visit), both in Germany.

As side note, I live near a reactor in the middle of the desert, it also uses evaporative cooling to air, with some water make-up intake, but no discharges back to the river.
In winter, you can see the condensed vapor, but in summertime at ~40C (104F) at full power no vapor could be seen.

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7874 on: August 28, 2020, 01:09:46 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.

I don't agree with your statements.

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/electricity-export-france/
France exports 9.3% (of French electrical generation).
Germany exports 5.7% (of German electrical generation)

The report suggests Germany was Europeís second-largest net exporter and was the second biggest market for Franceís exports during the period.. (ie Germany is an importer too)

Imports of electricity to France represent 0.5% of demand.

Imports of electricity to Germany represent 1.0 % of demand.

So imports to either Germany or France are local load balancing, not major stuff.

Many French reactors on rivers use air cooling, with minimal water input, and the water temperature is a minor factor. This is make up water for the water lost in evaporative cooling in the cooling towers. 
Of course if the water level is too low, you can't get (or are forbidden from getting) that make-up water.

The majority of nuclear plants in France are located away from the coasts and obtain their cooling water from rivers. These plants employ cooling towers to reduce their impact on the environment. 
via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

Exceptions to the river water use for direct cooling include Fessenheim (on the Rhine Canal), to German irritation :-)

I looked up the cooling vs source on Wikipedia, and have been to (worked at) Cattenom, Chinon, Belleville, all of which use air cooling (evaporative), and to Fessenheim.

I've also been to Philippsburg (worked there during Unit 1 decommissioning) and Isar (just a visit), both in Germany.

As side note, I live near a reactor in the middle of the desert, it also uses evaporative cooling to air, with some water make-up intake, but no discharges back to the river.
In winter, you can see the condensed vapor, but in summertime at ~40C (104F) at full power no vapor could be seen.

That reminds me, another of CA's problems is that they unexpectedly lost a nuclear reactor a few years ago. They were meant to be doing maintenance, but they caused damage that resulted in decommissioning, instead.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7875 on: August 28, 2020, 01:29:38 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.

I don't agree with your statements.

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/electricity-export-france/
France exports 9.3% (of French electrical generation).
Germany exports 5.7% (of German electrical generation)

The report suggests Germany was Europeís second-largest net exporter and was the second biggest market for Franceís exports during the period.. (ie Germany is an importer too)

Imports of electricity to France represent 0.5% of demand.

Imports of electricity to Germany represent 1.0 % of demand.

So imports to either Germany or France are local load balancing, not major stuff.

Many French reactors on rivers use air cooling, with minimal water input, and the water temperature is a minor factor. This is make up water for the water lost in evaporative cooling in the cooling towers. 
Of course if the water level is too low, you can't get (or are forbidden from getting) that make-up water.

The majority of nuclear plants in France are located away from the coasts and obtain their cooling water from rivers. These plants employ cooling towers to reduce their impact on the environment. 
via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

Exceptions to the river water use for direct cooling include Fessenheim (on the Rhine Canal), to German irritation :-)

I looked up the cooling vs source on Wikipedia, and have been to (worked at) Cattenom, Chinon, Belleville, all of which use air cooling (evaporative), and to Fessenheim.

I've also been to Philippsburg (worked there during Unit 1 decommissioning) and Isar (just a visit), both in Germany.

As side note, I live near a reactor in the middle of the desert, it also uses evaporative cooling to air, with some water make-up intake, but no discharges back to the river.
In winter, you can see the condensed vapor, but in summertime at ~40C (104F) at full power no vapor could be seen.

That reminds me, another of CA's problems is that they unexpectedly lost a nuclear reactor a few years ago. They were meant to be doing maintenance, but they caused damage that resulted in decommissioning, instead.
California or Canada?
San Onofre, California installed poorly designed steam generators in 2011. (Source: a resident contractor, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Onofre_Nuclear_Generating_Station)

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7876 on: August 28, 2020, 01:40:36 PM »
This is totally off-thread but I guess energy is everyone's problem, mustachian or not. What is your opinion on these sodium-cooled reactors Bill Gate is now getting behind? Any merit to them? Can create a new thread to discuss.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7877 on: August 28, 2020, 01:43:23 PM »
This is totally off-thread but I guess energy is everyone's problem, mustachian or not. What is your opinion on these sodium-cooled reactors Bill Gate is now getting behind? Any merit to them? Can create a new thread to discuss.

Yes, if there are Mustachians in the industry I would enjoy reading their thoughts on new developments.

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7878 on: August 28, 2020, 01:48:14 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.

I don't agree with your statements.

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/electricity-export-france/
France exports 9.3% (of French electrical generation).
Germany exports 5.7% (of German electrical generation)

The report suggests Germany was Europeís second-largest net exporter and was the second biggest market for Franceís exports during the period.. (ie Germany is an importer too)

Imports of electricity to France represent 0.5% of demand.

Imports of electricity to Germany represent 1.0 % of demand.

So imports to either Germany or France are local load balancing, not major stuff.

Many French reactors on rivers use air cooling, with minimal water input, and the water temperature is a minor factor. This is make up water for the water lost in evaporative cooling in the cooling towers. 
Of course if the water level is too low, you can't get (or are forbidden from getting) that make-up water.

The majority of nuclear plants in France are located away from the coasts and obtain their cooling water from rivers. These plants employ cooling towers to reduce their impact on the environment. 
via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

Exceptions to the river water use for direct cooling include Fessenheim (on the Rhine Canal), to German irritation :-)

I looked up the cooling vs source on Wikipedia, and have been to (worked at) Cattenom, Chinon, Belleville, all of which use air cooling (evaporative), and to Fessenheim.

I've also been to Philippsburg (worked there during Unit 1 decommissioning) and Isar (just a visit), both in Germany.

As side note, I live near a reactor in the middle of the desert, it also uses evaporative cooling to air, with some water make-up intake, but no discharges back to the river.
In winter, you can see the condensed vapor, but in summertime at ~40C (104F) at full power no vapor could be seen.

That reminds me, another of CA's problems is that they unexpectedly lost a nuclear reactor a few years ago. They were meant to be doing maintenance, but they caused damage that resulted in decommissioning, instead.
California or Canada?
San Onofre, California installed poorly designed steam generators in 2011. (Source: a resident contractor, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Onofre_Nuclear_Generating_Station)

That's the one. OK, they found damage, rather than causing it. Point remains that the generators were stopped on short notice, affecting the overall production capacity in times of high demand.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7879 on: August 28, 2020, 02:04:27 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.
I don't understand blaming climate change for the problems.  It's not something that has happened suddenly.  According to NOAA, we're about two degrees Fahrenheit warmer than 150 years ago, and temperatures have actually been sorta flat the last five years.  Power plants get built a whole lot faster :)

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7880 on: August 28, 2020, 02:08:07 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.
I don't understand blaming climate change for the problems.  It's not something that has happened suddenly.  According to NOAA, we're about two degrees Fahrenheit warmer than 150 years ago, and temperatures have actually been sorta flat the last five years.  Power plants get built a whole lot faster :)

You are looking at global averages, which don't account for some places being more extreme. If a midwestern state (or France, for that matter) is experiencing both colder winters and hotter summers, the average hasn't necessarily changed much even in that one location.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7881 on: August 28, 2020, 02:12:08 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.
I don't understand blaming climate change for the problems.  It's not something that has happened suddenly.  According to NOAA, we're about two degrees Fahrenheit warmer than 150 years ago, and temperatures have actually been sorta flat the last five years.  Power plants get built a whole lot faster :)

Mean global air temperature has little to do with cooling capacity of groundwater rivers. What's more important is the temperature of the surrounding ground and overlying air. This paper gives an example of increasing mean surface temperatures in France, which is more directly related. https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/joc.1211

Climate change is quite complicated and using a single time trend of a single datapoint doesn't capture the regional details that affect certain areas more than others. Also, power plants don't get built within 5 years (except some peaker plants). Wind and solar can be built much faster.

Off topic, but what do you all think about the sodium-cooled nuclear plants? I saw an article that Bill Gates and Buffet are getting behind some funding for them.

Abe

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7882 on: August 28, 2020, 02:18:49 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.
I don't understand blaming climate change for the problems.  It's not something that has happened suddenly.  According to NOAA, we're about two degrees Fahrenheit warmer than 150 years ago, and temperatures have actually been sorta flat the last five years.  Power plants get built a whole lot faster :)

You are looking at global averages, which don't account for some places being more extreme. If a midwestern state (or France, for that matter) is experiencing both colder winters and hotter summers, the average hasn't necessarily changed much even in that one location.

Here's a good summary of changing in heating and cooling needs in the US. Figure 2 shows widespread decrease in heating "degree-days", while Figure 3 shows the increase in cooling "degree-days" in the US. Interestingly, parts of the Southeast US has seen a decrease, while Florida, the Southwest and Northeast has gotten considerably warmer.

The main point is that the earth is slowly warming, and various regions are affected differently.

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7883 on: August 28, 2020, 04:48:44 PM »
Natural gas-powered plants can ramp up basically instantaneously, and hence need no storage.

Funny you say this because the the rolling blackouts could have been avoided had two natural gas generators not unexpectedly gone offline.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7884 on: August 29, 2020, 01:34:58 AM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.

I don't agree with your statements.

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/electricity-export-france/
France exports 9.3% (of French electrical generation).
Germany exports 5.7% (of German electrical generation)

Exceptions to the river water use for direct cooling include Fessenheim (on the Rhine Canal), to German irritation :-)

Yes, but that is all-year numbers. The point is that in the hot summers we had in the last years France had to shut down nuclear power plants because either the water back into the river would have made it too hot, or the river too dry. (Even the Rhine was not usable for normal loads and many ships could not even use it empty.)

That may have been exceptions. Exceptions in an unusual row. But all climate predictions say those situations will be normal in the middle of the century.

Quote
What is your opinion on these sodium-cooled reactors Bill Gate is now getting behind? Any merit to them?
In theory they sound good. So they have been said to be the future for 50 years, like Fusion energy.
The "problem" with them is that they don't produce the stuff that is the reason for nuclear power to exist: weapons-grade plutonium (this is actually the reason why fusion research was stopped after a few years back around 1960).
And they are even more expensive than "old" nuclear power, which is already more expensive than regenerative energies - not counting the costs if one of those goes BOOM.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 01:45:51 AM by LennStar »

TomTX

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7885 on: August 29, 2020, 07:06:08 AM »
This is totally off-thread but I guess energy is everyone's problem, mustachian or not. What is your opinion on these sodium-cooled reactors Bill Gate is now getting behind? Any merit to them? Can create a new thread to discuss.

Some variation of small modular nuclear reactors is about the only hope for practical new-build nuclear in the USA. The classic Giga-scale reactor construction projects in recent years have all massively blown their budgets and schedules - to the point where half have been cancelled after wasting billions of dollars. Each.

Even presuming small modular works out - in the best case scenario, I don't see small modular reactors being produced at real scale for at least 20 years.

In the meantime, wind and solar are lowest cost generation and batteries to complement are getting installed.

https://www.energy-storage.news/news/california-utility-pge-breaks-ground-on-730mwh-moss-landing-battery-project

Texas (ERCOT) has 14.5 GW of battery storage in the planning/development stages with most of it scheduled to be completed during 2021 and 2022.

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7886 on: August 29, 2020, 06:05:54 PM »
-I want to close my account

-But you have such a long history with us!

-I found the card in the drawer still attached to the paper.

-What made you stop using the card in 2016?

-I just can't be bothered with rotating categories, when I have a card that gives me the same cash back in the category of my choice!


-Are you aware you have a promotional offer for 0% APR?

-In 20 years, I have never carried a balance on this card.

She gave up soon after this, but not immediately.



Travis

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7887 on: August 29, 2020, 06:46:27 PM »
DW used the wrong credit card this week for coffee. She got charged $ .14 in foreign transaction fees. Grrr.....

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7888 on: August 29, 2020, 07:31:17 PM »
In France (~75% nuclear electricity ) they do, using Westinghouse-style Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR).
France often has to buy huge amounts of Energy from Germany (regeneratives) during winter and summer. Whenever the weather gets somehow extreme.
So it's not as if those reactors are making a stable energy grid.

Especially with higher and longer high temepratues due to climate change nuclear has a big problem getting cooling water since the rivers can get so warm they can't use any of it.
I don't understand blaming climate change for the problems.  It's not something that has happened suddenly.  According to NOAA, we're about two degrees Fahrenheit warmer than 150 years ago, and temperatures have actually been sorta flat the last five years.  Power plants get built a whole lot faster :)

Mean global air temperature has little to do with cooling capacity of groundwater rivers. What's more important is the temperature of the surrounding ground and overlying air. This paper gives an example of increasing mean surface temperatures in France, which is more directly related. https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/joc.1211

Climate change is quite complicated and using a single time trend of a single datapoint doesn't capture the regional details that affect certain areas more than others. Also, power plants don't get built within 5 years (except some peaker plants). Wind and solar can be built much faster.

Off topic, but what do you all think about the sodium-cooled nuclear plants? I saw an article that Bill Gates and Buffet are getting behind some funding for them.
Fair enough on the cooling water :)

I think sodium reactors are a bit of a solution in search of a problem.  I believe they were used by some soviet nuclear submarines. Their biggest advantage is their power/size, but that's not much of an issue for civilian power production, and if they ever shut down, you've got to have something else to keep the liquid sodium hot--once it's cooled and solidified, the reactor's done.  I think there are better options out there.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7889 on: August 31, 2020, 02:34:22 PM »
I have a 9+ year old laptop in perfect working condition except for some minor things - I can't get the camera to work (I never even tried to use it until this year with all the Zoom BS, not a big deal), the battery is dead and the charging cable has to be held at a certain angle to charge. It's fine, basically perfect if you tape the cable in place and don't need a camera. I'm VERY happy and pleased and proud that I have held onto a laptop this long - I replaced the keyboard once (DIY with a secondhand keyboard) and that's it. Not just for the money saved but for all the crap kept out of landfills and etc. It's just great all around!

So my parents have decided to give me a generous financial gift (for a lot of reasons which make sense in terms of money management and fairness-between-kids and future inheritance kind of stuff) and my mom handed me a check today and said "OK, the only thing is: you HAVE to promise me you'll get a new laptop! That's not a frivolous thing to buy, it's something you really need!" Just because I had mentioned that I had to do Zoom meetings on my phone because the camera on my laptop doesn't work.

Only mustachians will appreciate how valuable it is to simultaneously have an excuse not to do Zoom meetings AND experience the joy of having a laptop that's 9+ years old... and how painful it is to be essentially bribed to throw it away. LOL.

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7890 on: August 31, 2020, 02:39:25 PM »
Being FI Iíd say ďoh I didnít know there were strings attached to this money no thanksĒ

Although you could say you will replace the laptop.  Itís true you just donít give a timeframe

Dollar Slice

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7891 on: August 31, 2020, 02:55:53 PM »
Being FI Iíd say ďoh I didnít know there were strings attached to this money no thanksĒ

Although you could say you will replace the laptop.  Itís true you just donít give a timeframe

Even if I were FI (I'm not, and I'm unemployed, so I'm very happy to be given cash) I think I would be willing to purchase an inexpensive laptop if it would let me give a big donation to a good charitable cause.

The laptop replacement is actually oddly complicated - I already have a replacement waiting in the wings, which I bought when there was a good sale because the old laptop seemed to be on its last legs with the battery and charging cable and etc. But it keeps chugging on eternally, and when I booted the new laptop to see if I could use it for a Zoom meeting, I can't get that camera to work either! Maybe I could just buy a webcam and hope my mom doesn't pay that close attention.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7892 on: August 31, 2020, 03:02:07 PM »
Being FI Iíd say ďoh I didnít know there were strings attached to this money no thanksĒ

Although you could say you will replace the laptop.  Itís true you just donít give a timeframe

Even if I were FI (I'm not, and I'm unemployed, so I'm very happy to be given cash) I think I would be willing to purchase an inexpensive laptop if it would let me give a big donation to a good charitable cause.

The laptop replacement is actually oddly complicated - I already have a replacement waiting in the wings, which I bought when there was a good sale because the old laptop seemed to be on its last legs with the battery and charging cable and etc. But it keeps chugging on eternally, and when I booted the new laptop to see if I could use it for a Zoom meeting, I can't get that camera to work either! Maybe I could just buy a webcam and hope my mom doesn't pay that close attention.

In windows there are security settings that have to be set correctly to get the camera and microphone to work with zoom and other web apps.    You'll have to google it.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7893 on: August 31, 2020, 03:36:18 PM »
In windows there are security settings that have to be set correctly to get the camera and microphone to work with zoom and other web apps.    You'll have to google it.

I worked as IT help desk support for a small biz for 18 years alongside many other job titles, so I don't really need the "google it" level of advice... but thanks anyway. I did try to set the settings correctly, but it didn't do what it was supposed to and I didn't have a lot of time to figure it out pre-meeting (and I haven't needed it since). I'll give it another shot at some point before actually spending money on something.

Knowing me, I probably unchecked the option to include a webcam when I ordered it to save $7... :-P  Who knew we'd all be spending our lives in video conferences in 2020.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7894 on: August 31, 2020, 03:52:03 PM »
In windows there are security settings that have to be set correctly to get the camera and microphone to work with zoom and other web apps.    You'll have to google it.

I worked as IT help desk support for a small biz for 18 years alongside many other job titles, so I don't really need the "google it" level of advice... but thanks anyway. I did try to set the settings correctly, but it didn't do what it was supposed to and I didn't have a lot of time to figure it out pre-meeting (and I haven't needed it since). I'll give it another shot at some point before actually spending money on something.

Knowing me, I probably unchecked the option to include a webcam when I ordered it to save $7... :-P  Who knew we'd all be spending our lives in video conferences in 2020.

Reminds me of all the DOD contractor laptops i've seen where they paid someone to take the camera out... I wonder if they had to pay someone to put some of them back in this year...

Travis

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7895 on: August 31, 2020, 07:48:00 PM »
In windows there are security settings that have to be set correctly to get the camera and microphone to work with zoom and other web apps.    You'll have to google it.

I worked as IT help desk support for a small biz for 18 years alongside many other job titles, so I don't really need the "google it" level of advice... but thanks anyway. I did try to set the settings correctly, but it didn't do what it was supposed to and I didn't have a lot of time to figure it out pre-meeting (and I haven't needed it since). I'll give it another shot at some point before actually spending money on something.

Knowing me, I probably unchecked the option to include a webcam when I ordered it to save $7... :-P  Who knew we'd all be spending our lives in video conferences in 2020.

Reminds me of all the DOD contractor laptops i've seen where they paid someone to take the camera out... I wonder if they had to pay someone to put some of them back in this year...

Nope. The commo team just gets a lot of grief for not having a stockpile of webcams on the shelf a week after Teams was authorized and half the building is ordered to telework.

Also, I'm trying to buy about $1 million worth of new laptops that have very specific traits. The product description states that there's no wireless three times in the same paragraph.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7896 on: August 31, 2020, 08:14:14 PM »
In windows there are security settings that have to be set correctly to get the camera and microphone to work with zoom and other web apps.    You'll have to google it.

I worked as IT help desk support for a small biz for 18 years alongside many other job titles, so I don't really need the "google it" level of advice... but thanks anyway. I did try to set the settings correctly, but it didn't do what it was supposed to and I didn't have a lot of time to figure it out pre-meeting (and I haven't needed it since). I'll give it another shot at some point before actually spending money on something.

Knowing me, I probably unchecked the option to include a webcam when I ordered it to save $7... :-P  Who knew we'd all be spending our lives in video conferences in 2020.

Reminds me of all the DOD contractor laptops i've seen where they paid someone to take the camera out... I wonder if they had to pay someone to put some of them back in this year...

Nope. The commo team just gets a lot of grief for not having a stockpile of webcams on the shelf a week after Teams was authorized and half the building is ordered to telework.

Also, I'm trying to buy about $1 million worth of new laptops that have very specific traits. The product description states that there's no wireless three times in the same paragraph.
Interesting, since (depending on the model) it takes about 2 minutes to open up the laptop and pop out the wireless card.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7897 on: August 31, 2020, 08:19:55 PM »
In windows there are security settings that have to be set correctly to get the camera and microphone to work with zoom and other web apps.    You'll have to google it.

I worked as IT help desk support for a small biz for 18 years alongside many other job titles, so I don't really need the "google it" level of advice... but thanks anyway. I did try to set the settings correctly, but it didn't do what it was supposed to and I didn't have a lot of time to figure it out pre-meeting (and I haven't needed it since). I'll give it another shot at some point before actually spending money on something.

Knowing me, I probably unchecked the option to include a webcam when I ordered it to save $7... :-P  Who knew we'd all be spending our lives in video conferences in 2020.

Reminds me of all the DOD contractor laptops i've seen where they paid someone to take the camera out... I wonder if they had to pay someone to put some of them back in this year...

Nope. The commo team just gets a lot of grief for not having a stockpile of webcams on the shelf a week after Teams was authorized and half the building is ordered to telework.

Also, I'm trying to buy about $1 million worth of new laptops that have very specific traits. The product description states that there's no wireless three times in the same paragraph.

As a former nuclear power contract worker, I can sympathize.   
I once had to _beg_ our cell phone provider to ensure that NO CAMERA was installed in my phone. 
At the time, nuclear power plants were pretty paranoid about any cameras (special tag on camera, high-level permission etc).   
Same with our laptops, which we though was great, since we had them in our hotel rooms also.  No one wants the possibility of seeing a nuke worker in less than underwear. 
Underwear is a common thing at some nuke plants, especially non-US countries. -- this gives me the idea for a thread "What is the weirdest thing that you had to do at work." 

Turned up to 11, when our IT guy had to physically remove the wifi radio from my laptop to go to a Department of Energy reactor.
Why?  In the second sub-basement where we were set up, there was a "computer room" that we _might_ have picked up some signals from a computer from the EBCDIC (60's) era (my supposition).
No one examined the laptop on entry....

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7898 on: August 31, 2020, 08:33:21 PM »
Reminds me of all the DOD contractor laptops i've seen where they paid someone to take the camera out... I wonder if they had to pay someone to put some of them back in this year...

No, they won't do that.   No way.   Those computers, wherever they were and however they were being used, weren't supposed to have cameras and that wouldn't change.

Instead, they would buy new computers and place them someplace that didn't have to be as secured.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #7899 on: September 01, 2020, 01:18:17 AM »
Reminds me of all the DOD contractor laptops i've seen where they paid someone to take the camera out... I wonder if they had to pay someone to put some of them back in this year...

No, they won't do that.   No way.   Those computers, wherever they were and however they were being used, weren't supposed to have cameras and that wouldn't change.

Instead, they would buy new computers and place them someplace that didn't have to be as secured.

Youíre probably right about just buying new ones. Sounds like that is what Travis is seeing too. I experienced a few blanket policies where since some computers couldnít have cameras none were allowed to.