Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)

[Dicey]

MPP: I'm fairly diligent churner of credit cards but I was recently turned down for two business cc's, and I put myself on a personal cc moratorium until August, when I'll be under 5/24, so on an upcoming trip none of the incidental expenses are going towards a CC bonus; ooh, it burns!

Surely one of your existing cards earns points/mileage/rebates?

[sonofsven]

MPP: I'm fairly diligent churner of credit cards but I was recently turned down for two business cc's, and I put myself on a personal cc moratorium until August, when I'll be under 5/24, so on an upcoming trip none of the incidental expenses are going towards a CC bonus; ooh, it burns!

Surely one of your existing cards earns points/mileage/rebates?

Yes, but my normal spend is so low I like to optimize any extra towards a bonus.

[AnotherEngineer]

MPP: I'm fairly diligent churner of credit cards but I was recently turned down for two business cc's, and I put myself on a personal cc moratorium until August, when I'll be under 5/24, so on an upcoming trip none of the incidental expenses are going towards a CC bonus; ooh, it burns!

Surely one of your existing cards earns points/mileage/rebates?

Yes, but my normal spend is so low I like to optimize any extra towards a bonus.

I was well over 5/24 from churning, so changed course to use 0% interest cards and save the payment at 5% interest plus 2% cash back and a bonus. The return isn't quite as good as optimal churning, but it is worth considering.

[crocheted_stache]

I just got a statement explaining (not very well) that I "owe" -$1.00.

That happened with my phone bill while I was at university when my dad accidentally overpaid a bill they were sending home (a "typo" but by hand, I guess). He ended up writing them a check for -$0.10 to clear it up.

I would never do that since checks and stamps cost money these days, but back in the 90s he was probably getting free checks and it came in a prepaid postage reply envelope.

Family lore has it that someone received a bill/statement stating he owed $0.00. He naturally interpreted this as not needing to pay, so he didn't. The (perhaps early, at the time) computer system didn't see it that way and pretty soon, he was getting late notices. It may even have been sent to collections. After several fruitless phone calls to try to straighten out the problem, he finally gave up and in desperation mailed a check for $0.00, and apparently this satisfied the computer and the notices stopped.

Anyway, I'm thinking it's easier to just use this credit card to buy the next sandwich-or-whatever, than find out how/whether this institution's computers mess up when there's a statement credit sitting there.

[Dollar Slice]

Family lore has it that someone received a bill/statement stating he owed $0.00. He naturally interpreted this as not needing to pay, so he didn't. The (perhaps early, at the time) computer system didn't see it that way and pretty soon, he was getting late notices. It may even have been sent to collections. After several fruitless phone calls to try to straighten out the problem, he finally gave up and in desperation mailed a check for $0.00, and apparently this satisfied the computer and the notices stopped.

Anyway, I'm thinking it's easier to just use this credit card to buy the next sandwich-or-whatever, than find out how/whether this institution's computers mess up when there's a statement credit sitting there.

I don't know how it works now, but certainly at some point, a person would have to open the envelope, see the check and enter it into your account. At which point they would say "aha, our computer is generating an error and I need to fix it". And this is probably why sending a check for no money or negative money fixed the situation... it got the problem in front of the person who knew how to fix it, i.e., the person who actually handled payments all day for a living.

My mustachian people problem today is that I had a grocery delivery where I ordered a bulk pack of Kleenex boxes, and they delivered paper napkins instead (in spite of me saying: no substitutions). I got a refund, but how do I frugally use up 200 paper napkins? They're so wasteful. I never buy them.

[RWD]

I got a refund, but how do I frugally use up 200 paper napkins? They're so wasteful. I never buy them.

Do you use paper towels? Substitute a napkin whenever that can handle the job instead.

[Dollar Slice]

I got a refund, but how do I frugally use up 200 paper napkins? They're so wasteful. I never buy them.

Do you use paper towels? Substitute a napkin whenever that can handle the job instead.

It takes me months to get through a roll of paper towels as it is. But yeah, I guess I can try that.

[LennStar]

I got a refund, but how do I frugally use up 200 paper napkins? They're so wasteful. I never buy them.

Do you use paper towels? Substitute a napkin whenever that can handle the job instead.

It takes me months to get through a roll of paper towels as it is. But yeah, I guess I can try that.

Give them to someone who needs them?
People who do a big birthday party, the local fire fighters for their party, old people homes and whatever.

[NorthernIkigai]

I just got a statement explaining (not very well) that I "owe" -$1.00.

That happened with my phone bill while I was at university when my dad accidentally overpaid a bill they were sending home (a "typo" but by hand, I guess). He ended up writing them a check for -$0.10 to clear it up.

I would never do that since checks and stamps cost money these days, but back in the 90s he was probably getting free checks and it came in a prepaid postage reply envelope.

Family lore has it that someone received a bill/statement stating he owed $0.00. He naturally interpreted this as not needing to pay, so he didn't. The (perhaps early, at the time) computer system didn't see it that way and pretty soon, he was getting late notices. It may even have been sent to collections. After several fruitless phone calls to try to straighten out the problem, he finally gave up and in desperation mailed a check for $0.00, and apparently this satisfied the computer and the notices stopped.

Anyway, I'm thinking it's easier to just use this credit card to buy the next sandwich-or-whatever, than find out how/whether this institution's computers mess up when there's a statement credit sitting there.

I have a credit card that used to work normally, ie I pay it off if I’ve used it and that’s it. Then they started hitting me with a fee if they had to send a bill. So now I sometimes use it because it’s more secure to use a credit than a debit card (in case of disputes), but straight away pay it off so that that no bill is formed and I’m not charged any fees. However, for some reason (I think legally) they have to still send me the bill since it had items on it. So most months I get a paper bill which has 0,00 on the last line + I get the same bill in an electronic system (not the bank’s own) where I can go click that “I have paid this bill”…


My actual MPP is that I am here reading all about other people’s churning and getting points here and free travel there, and we don’t have any of that where I live. We only pay for our banking services, we don’t get anything back :-(

[crocheted_stache]

I got a refund, but how do I frugally use up 200 paper napkins? They're so wasteful. I never buy them.

Do you use paper towels? Substitute a napkin whenever that can handle the job instead.

It takes me months to get through a roll of paper towels as it is. But yeah, I guess I can try that.

Give them to someone who needs them?
People who do a big birthday party, the local fire fighters for their party, old people homes and whatever.

Or list on your local Buy Nothing group or equivalent. If you got something you obviously couldn't use (like the pantiliners that got sent by mistake to a man I know), you wouldn't be looking for frugal ways to use them up, you'd be looking for someone else who could use them. I'd suggest that approach here.

[Alfred J Quack]

Family lore has it that someone received a bill/statement stating he owed $0.00. He naturally interpreted this as not needing to pay, so he didn't. The (perhaps early, at the time) computer system didn't see it that way and pretty soon, he was getting late notices. It may even have been sent to collections. After several fruitless phone calls to try to straighten out the problem, he finally gave up and in desperation mailed a check for $0.00, and apparently this satisfied the computer and the notices stopped.

I'm pretty sure this is a rounding issue where there may be 0.001 in balance that the callcenter could not fix but the person that processed the cheque could.

We even had a discussion about which data type to use in a database schema because some data types can have rounding errors for financial data (though at something like 8 digits past the decimal).

[Alternatepriorities]

I got a refund, but how do I frugally use up 200 paper napkins? They're so wasteful. I never buy them.

Do you use paper towels? Substitute a napkin whenever that can handle the job instead.

It takes me months to get through a roll of paper towels as it is. But yeah, I guess I can try that.

Give them to someone who needs them?
People who do a big birthday party, the local fire fighters for their party, old people homes and whatever.

Adopt a baby and you can use them up in hurry!

[NorCal]

Family lore has it that someone received a bill/statement stating he owed $0.00. He naturally interpreted this as not needing to pay, so he didn't. The (perhaps early, at the time) computer system didn't see it that way and pretty soon, he was getting late notices. It may even have been sent to collections. After several fruitless phone calls to try to straighten out the problem, he finally gave up and in desperation mailed a check for $0.00, and apparently this satisfied the computer and the notices stopped.

I'm pretty sure this is a rounding issue where there may be 0.001 in balance that the callcenter could not fix but the person that processed the cheque could.

We even had a discussion about which data type to use in a database schema because some data types can have rounding errors for financial data (though at something like 8 digits past the decimal).

I deal with this all the time. I specialize in a financial database where most customers load data extended out to two decimal places, but occasionally more.

However, when you take the rounded data on tens-of-thousands of rows of data and sum it, it doesn’t tie out, with variances of a couple dollars.  Sometimes more if foreign currency translation is involved.

This is acceptable accuracy for my purposes, but sometimes it causes auditors to throw a conniption fit.

[secondcor521]

However, when you take the rounded data on tens-of-thousands of rows of data and sum it, it doesn’t tie out, with variances of a couple dollars.  Sometimes more if foreign currency translation is involved.

This is acceptable accuracy for my purposes, but sometimes it causes auditors to throw a conniption fit.

A long time ago I was working with the guy who managed a $9 billion scholarship endowment for a US university.  His books were off by $29 or something like that.  This bothered him, so he would go looking for the $29 problem, but there were thousands upon thousands of transactions, and it was a computerized double entry bookkeeping system so in theory the books should not have been able to get out of balance.

He found it one day and was thrilled.  I remember thinking, oh, now this should be easy to fix.  But the problem was that any entry to fix it had to be a double entry, so it would just shift the $29 error to another account.  I don't recall the details, but we had to run a special database program I wrote to put in a single entry bookkeeping entry for the $29 to fix it.  It had to be run by all the auditors and we documented the daylights out of the transaction.

[Dave1442397]

However, when you take the rounded data on tens-of-thousands of rows of data and sum it, it doesn’t tie out, with variances of a couple dollars.  Sometimes more if foreign currency translation is involved.

This is acceptable accuracy for my purposes, but sometimes it causes auditors to throw a conniption fit.

A long time ago I was working with the guy who managed a $9 billion scholarship endowment for a US university.  His books were off by $29 or something like that.  This bothered him, so he would go looking for the $29 problem, but there were thousands upon thousands of transactions, and it was a computerized double entry bookkeeping system so in theory the books should not have been able to get out of balance.

He found it one day and was thrilled.  I remember thinking, oh, now this should be easy to fix.  But the problem was that any entry to fix it had to be a double entry, so it would just shift the $29 error to another account.  I don't recall the details, but we had to run a special database program I wrote to put in a single entry bookkeeping entry for the $29 to fix it.  It had to be run by all the auditors and we documented the daylights out of the transaction.

I spent my first six weeks of working at a large financial corp hunting down a rounding error. A few customers would call every quarter saying their statements were off by a few cents, plus or minus. I had to track transactions back through the code (hundreds of programs) until I finally got to the central pricing module, where someone had written a few lines of code that didn't follow standard math processes. It was a simple fix, but they had ignored it for years because no one had the time to dig through all the code.

[NorthernIkigai]

However, when you take the rounded data on tens-of-thousands of rows of data and sum it, it doesn’t tie out, with variances of a couple dollars.  Sometimes more if foreign currency translation is involved.

This is acceptable accuracy for my purposes, but sometimes it causes auditors to throw a conniption fit.

A long time ago I was working with the guy who managed a $9 billion scholarship endowment for a US university.  His books were off by $29 or something like that.  This bothered him, so he would go looking for the $29 problem, but there were thousands upon thousands of transactions, and it was a computerized double entry bookkeeping system so in theory the books should not have been able to get out of balance.

He found it one day and was thrilled.  I remember thinking, oh, now this should be easy to fix.  But the problem was that any entry to fix it had to be a double entry, so it would just shift the $29 error to another account.  I don't recall the details, but we had to run a special database program I wrote to put in a single entry bookkeeping entry for the $29 to fix it.  It had to be run by all the auditors and we documented the daylights out of the transaction.

I spent my first six weeks of working at a large financial corp hunting down a rounding error. A few customers would call every quarter saying their statements were off by a few cents, plus or minus. I had to track transactions back through the code (hundreds of programs) until I finally got to the central pricing module, where someone had written a few lines of code that didn't follow standard math processes. It was a simple fix, but they had ignored it for years because no one had the time to dig through all the code.

Someone I know worked for an institution handling an enormous amount of transaction (think it of like a banker of the other banks). They noticed there was a tiny (per transaction) rounding problem and that the company was benefiting from it. They reported it to their bosses and were very sternly told to leave it...

[ScreamingHeadGuy]

However, when you take the rounded data on tens-of-thousands of rows of data and sum it, it doesn’t tie out, with variances of a couple dollars.  Sometimes more if foreign currency translation is involved.

This is acceptable accuracy for my purposes, but sometimes it causes auditors to throw a conniption fit.

A long time ago I was working with the guy who managed a $9 billion scholarship endowment for a US university.  His books were off by $29 or something like that.  This bothered him, so he would go looking for the $29 problem, but there were thousands upon thousands of transactions, and it was a computerized double entry bookkeeping system so in theory the books should not have been able to get out of balance.

He found it one day and was thrilled.  I remember thinking, oh, now this should be easy to fix.  But the problem was that any entry to fix it had to be a double entry, so it would just shift the $29 error to another account.  I don't recall the details, but we had to run a special database program I wrote to put in a single entry bookkeeping entry for the $29 to fix it.  It had to be run by all the auditors and we documented the daylights out of the transaction.

I spent my first six weeks of working at a large financial corp hunting down a rounding error. A few customers would call every quarter saying their statements were off by a few cents, plus or minus. I had to track transactions back through the code (hundreds of programs) until I finally got to the central pricing module, where someone had written a few lines of code that didn't follow standard math processes. It was a simple fix, but they had ignored it for years because no one had the time to dig through all the code.

Someone I know worked for an institution handling an enormous amount of transaction (think it of like a banker of the other banks). They noticed there was a tiny (per transaction) rounding problem and that the company was benefiting from it. They reported it to their bosses and were very sternly told to leave it...

Like Superman 3?  Or the sub-plot in Officespace (inspired by Superman 3)?

[SwordGuy]

Someone I know worked for an institution handling an enormous amount of transaction (think it of like a banker of the other banks). They noticed there was a tiny (per transaction) rounding problem and that the company was benefiting from it. They reported it to their bosses and were very sternly told to leave it...

Like Superman 3?  Or the sub-plot in Officespace (inspired by Superman 3)?

Early on in computing history that crime really was done.   If you have enough volume it really adds up.

Best one that was done early on required absolutely zero insider access.  Back when computers first started being used by banks, the deposit slips had magnetic encoding on them with the full account number.  The slips were accumulated during the day and then run as a back office process overnight.   The ones that didn't have full account numbers on them were sorted out by the machine and entered by hand in the morning.   If you didn't have a deposit slip with you, you could pick up one from a kiosk in the bank lobby.  It only had the bank's part of your account number magnetically encoded, so it would be processed by hand the next day.

So far, so good?

The criminals opened accounts at the major banks in NYC.  With the account numbers, they printed up blank deposit slips BUT WITH THE FULL MAGNETIC ENCODING for their account on them and stuffed the kiosks with them.  People would fill in the blanks with their own account number, but they would be ignored because, with the criminal's full account number on them, the back office process would deposit the money in the criminal's accounts.

They waited about a week, then went to the bank and closed their account, with a request for "the balance of the account", meaning it was the bank's legal responsibility to tell them how much money they were entitled to.  They walked away with a big pile of money and, just to prove to you how smart they were, they never did it again.

The banks went into panic mode all over the US and stopped putting blank deposit slips in the kiosks.   You had to ask a teller for one.  It wasn't until about 10 years later, when interactive bank teller software was in place with the tellers, that the deposit slips started showing up in the kiosks again.

It was brilliant.

[Catbert]

Someone I know worked for an institution handling an enormous amount of transaction (think it of like a banker of the other banks). They noticed there was a tiny (per transaction) rounding problem and that the company was benefiting from it. They reported it to their bosses and were very sternly told to leave it...

Like Superman 3?  Or the sub-plot in Officespace (inspired by Superman 3)?

Early on in computing history that crime really was done.   If you have enough volume it really adds up.

Best one that was done early on required absolutely zero insider access.  Back when computers first started being used by banks, the deposit slips had magnetic encoding on them with the full account number.  The slips were accumulated during the day and then run as a back office process overnight.   The ones that didn't have full account numbers on them were sorted out by the machine and entered by hand in the morning.   If you didn't have a deposit slip with you, you could pick up one from a kiosk in the bank lobby.  It only had the bank's part of your account number magnetically encoded, so it would be processed by hand the next day.

So far, so good?

The criminals opened accounts at the major banks in NYC.  With the account numbers, they printed up blank deposit slips BUT WITH THE FULL MAGNETIC ENCODING for their account on them and stuffed the kiosks with them.  People would fill in the blanks with their own account number, but they would be ignored because, with the criminal's full account number on them, the back office process would deposit the money in the criminal's accounts.

They waited about a week, then went to the bank and closed their account, with a request for "the balance of the account", meaning it was the bank's legal responsibility to tell them how much money they were entitled to.  They walked away with a big pile of money and, just to prove to you how smart they were, they never did it again.

The banks went into panic mode all over the US and stopped putting blank deposit slips in the kiosks.   You had to ask a teller for one.  It wasn't until about 10 years later, when interactive bank teller software was in place with the tellers, that the deposit slips started showing up in the kiosks again.

It was brilliant.

The smartest part of that was one and done.

[Dave1442397]

^^^ Yes, pretty much the perfect crime!

[NorthernIkigai]

However, when you take the rounded data on tens-of-thousands of rows of data and sum it, it doesn’t tie out, with variances of a couple dollars.  Sometimes more if foreign currency translation is involved.

This is acceptable accuracy for my purposes, but sometimes it causes auditors to throw a conniption fit.

A long time ago I was working with the guy who managed a $9 billion scholarship endowment for a US university.  His books were off by $29 or something like that.  This bothered him, so he would go looking for the $29 problem, but there were thousands upon thousands of transactions, and it was a computerized double entry bookkeeping system so in theory the books should not have been able to get out of balance.

He found it one day and was thrilled.  I remember thinking, oh, now this should be easy to fix.  But the problem was that any entry to fix it had to be a double entry, so it would just shift the $29 error to another account.  I don't recall the details, but we had to run a special database program I wrote to put in a single entry bookkeeping entry for the $29 to fix it.  It had to be run by all the auditors and we documented the daylights out of the transaction.

I spent my first six weeks of working at a large financial corp hunting down a rounding error. A few customers would call every quarter saying their statements were off by a few cents, plus or minus. I had to track transactions back through the code (hundreds of programs) until I finally got to the central pricing module, where someone had written a few lines of code that didn't follow standard math processes. It was a simple fix, but they had ignored it for years because no one had the time to dig through all the code.

Someone I know worked for an institution handling an enormous amount of transaction (think it of like a banker of the other banks). They noticed there was a tiny (per transaction) rounding problem and that the company was benefiting from it. They reported it to their bosses and were very sternly told to leave it...

Like Superman 3?  Or the sub-plot in Officespace (inspired by Superman 3)?

I haven’t seen either :-) But this was very much a real thing that happened to a real person (at a bank that most of us have had our money going through at some point, albeit not a household name like the retail banks).

[Alfred J Quack]

Family lore has it that someone received a bill/statement stating he owed $0.00. He naturally interpreted this as not needing to pay, so he didn't. The (perhaps early, at the time) computer system didn't see it that way and pretty soon, he was getting late notices. It may even have been sent to collections. After several fruitless phone calls to try to straighten out the problem, he finally gave up and in desperation mailed a check for $0.00, and apparently this satisfied the computer and the notices stopped.

I'm pretty sure this is a rounding issue where there may be 0.001 in balance that the callcenter could not fix but the person that processed the cheque could.

We even had a discussion about which data type to use in a database schema because some data types can have rounding errors for financial data (though at something like 8 digits past the decimal).

I deal with this all the time. I specialize in a financial database where most customers load data extended out to two decimal places, but occasionally more.

However, when you take the rounded data on tens-of-thousands of rows of data and sum it, it doesn’t tie out, with variances of a couple dollars.  Sometimes more if foreign currency translation is involved.

This is acceptable accuracy for my purposes, but sometimes it causes auditors to throw a conniption fit.

Yeah, Data engineer here and we have amounts up to 5 digits behind the decimal because they are per unit usage cost (heating, hot water etc.). But the service API converts them to exponents which can't be casted to decimal so my colleague casts it to Float which can cause rounding errors.
And I'm grinding my teeth because we can just save the data  in the source datatype with a relatively small adjustment in the process but nooooo, csv/json is easier 😑

Only plus is that it's in Power BI reporting so it gets aggregated and decimals er of no interest 😄

[crocheted_stache]

For everyone here who's amused by web form glitches and poor programming choices, here's a 101-year-old woman who booked a plane ticket and put in her birth year as "23," which the computer interpreted as 2023 rather than 1923, and then flagged her as an unaccompanied minor.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5sG_wFHVuNg

[zolotiyeruki]

The correct approach is, of course, to store the digits-before-the-decimal as an integer, and the digits-after-the-decimal as a second integer.

[GuitarStv]

The correct approach is, of course, to store the digits-before-the-decimal as an integer, and the digits-after-the-decimal as a second integer.

The most likely correction that airlines I've flown would implement is to store the year as a floating point number and require you to type it in exactly for the time that you book the ticket.

[Dicey]

For everyone here who's amused by web form glitches and poor programming choices, here's a 101-year-old woman who booked a plane ticket and put in her birth year as "23," which the computer interpreted as 2023 rather than 1923, and then flagged her as an unaccompanied minor.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5sG_wFHVuNg

OMG, I love her!

[oneday]

Isn't this the same problem as the Y2K glitch? Have programmers already forgotten that?

[NorthernIkigai]

For everyone here who's amused by web form glitches and poor programming choices, here's a 101-year-old woman who booked a plane ticket and put in her birth year as "23," which the computer interpreted as 2023 rather than 1923, and then flagged her as an unaccompanied minor.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5sG_wFHVuNg

I'm mostly surprised by the fact that it's possible to buy a ticket for a 1-year-old (or actually even a 0-year-old, as the lady says she's almost 101). Of course I've seen kids aged 7 or 10 or something travel with assistance from an airline, but 0 or 1, seriously? I thought there was a lower age limit of maybe 4 or 5 or something.

[LennStar]

For everyone here who's amused by web form glitches and poor programming choices, here's a 101-year-old woman who booked a plane ticket and put in her birth year as "23," which the computer interpreted as 2023 rather than 1923, and then flagged her as an unaccompanied minor.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5sG_wFHVuNg

I'm mostly surprised by the fact that it's possible to buy a ticket for a 1-year-old (or actually even a 0-year-old, as the lady says she's almost 101). Of course I've seen kids aged 7 or 10 or something travel with assistance from an airline, but 0 or 1, seriously? I thought there was a lower age limit of maybe 4 or 5 or something.

The programmers assumption is of course that no parent would put an child too young to do it on the booking list.

btw. In Japan there are TV shows where they show how a (a lot younger than 7 year old) child got told by their parents to buy X from the nearest konbini and then the camera follows them around showing how they do.
Japan has a lot of strange shows, but that one somehow nearly tops it for me.

Of course for an US citizen just the thought of letting an 4 year old alone out of the house must be scary as hell. Not that this happens oftne in Japan to be fair, it generally starts when they enter school and there they walk in a group most of the way.

[Sugaree]

For everyone here who's amused by web form glitches and poor programming choices, here's a 101-year-old woman who booked a plane ticket and put in her birth year as "23," which the computer interpreted as 2023 rather than 1923, and then flagged her as an unaccompanied minor.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5sG_wFHVuNg

I'm mostly surprised by the fact that it's possible to buy a ticket for a 1-year-old (or actually even a 0-year-old, as the lady says she's almost 101). Of course I've seen kids aged 7 or 10 or something travel with assistance from an airline, but 0 or 1, seriously? I thought there was a lower age limit of maybe 4 or 5 or something.

The programmers assumption is of course that no parent would put an child too young to do it on the booking list.

btw. In Japan there are TV shows where they show how a (a lot younger than 7 year old) child got told by their parents to buy X from the nearest konbini and then the camera follows them around showing how they do.
Japan has a lot of strange shows, but that one somehow nearly tops it for me.

Of course for an US citizen just the thought of letting an 4 year old alone out of the house must be scary as hell. Not that this happens oftne in Japan to be fair, it generally starts when they enter school and there they walk in a group most of the way.

Four is a little young, but in all honesty, I was always way more concerned that some nosy busybody would report me to CPS because my kid was playing outside by himself rather than anything bad actually happening to him. 

[NorthernIkigai]

The programmers probably weren't thinking about the actual kids at all. But I'm surprised that the company doesn't have an explicit lower age limit that would have been included in the brief to the programmers. I mean the staff would probably be pretty freaked out of someone turned up and handed them an actual baby!

I now checked our national carrier's rules, and they do indeed have a lower age limit of 5. Four or 5 was about what I was thinking (in terms of being able to reliably take care of their own hygiene, speaking up if there's a problem, not being scared, ...) as an absolute lower limit (considering that all kids are different but the company can't really interview them but has to have one rule for everyone). I know someone who let their kid fly internationally at about 5 or 6, with the parents following them to the gate and the grandparents fetching them. I'd never, ever do that myself, but that kid is pretty mature and it went well.

At which age you can let kids out to do stuff on their own depends a lot on where you live -- not just the general culture of the country but also the specific neighbourhood. Going to school for us means crossing a lot of big streets, whereas going to the store is quick, easy, and a very specific task (as opposed to "going outside and playing with your friends" which can be more loosey-goosey and lead to stupid ideas...).

[crocheted_stache]

I'm a little surprised nothing went wrong in advance of arriving at the airport. It didn't fail some check that an infant would not be expected to have a credit card in her own name or at least pop open a sub-form demanding the parent's contact information. Once it's in the world of humans, some staff member can shrug at the clipboard and explain that they are required to follow her through security because rules, sign off that that job got done, and it's just a funny story and a temporary inconvenience.

As for the Japanese thing, I've only read about it, but as I understand it, it's to build independence starting at a young age, and the TV show is just a version of an existing custom. The young child isn't put to the task out of the blue or alone. They've practiced the different steps with a parent, and while they're not assisted by an adult, they're monitored. The neighbors and shopkeepers all know what's up and watch the kid along the way. Of course, it's also a short walk in a safe neighborhood.

I'm pretty sure I'd have flunked on navigation alone, at that age.

I do recall the first time as a young teen out with some friends that I ordered my own lunch and paid my own allowance and babysitting money for it. It might have been all of $6, but it felt really weird. I was a cautious spender even then.

[LennStar]

As for the Japanese thing, I've only read about it, but as I understand it, it's to build independence starting at a young age, and the TV show is just a version of an existing custom. The young child isn't put to the task out of the blue or alone. They've practiced the different steps with a parent, and while they're not assisted by an adult, they're monitored. The neighbors and shopkeepers all know what's up and watch the kid along the way. Of course, it's also a short walk in a safe neighborhood.

Yes. It's the TV show part that get's to me (as an XXL introvert).

When I was that age I was playing alone in the sand box down the street. Technically it was out of car's way and in sight- and shouting range (barely, nearly 200m).
But I would play there alone for hours and when it was dinner time my dad would should my name as loud as he could from the balcony. I would wave, pack my stuff up and go home.
I cannot imagine that happening in today's USA for example.

[crocheted_stache]

As for the Japanese thing, I've only read about it, but as I understand it, it's to build independence starting at a young age, and the TV show is just a version of an existing custom. The young child isn't put to the task out of the blue or alone. They've practiced the different steps with a parent, and while they're not assisted by an adult, they're monitored. The neighbors and shopkeepers all know what's up and watch the kid along the way. Of course, it's also a short walk in a safe neighborhood.

Yes. It's the TV show part that get's to me (as an XXL introvert).

When I was that age I was playing alone in the sand box down the street. Technically it was out of car's way and in sight- and shouting range (barely, nearly 200m).
But I would play there alone for hours and when it was dinner time my dad would should my name as loud as he could from the balcony. I would wave, pack my stuff up and go home.
I cannot imagine that happening in today's USA for example.

There are a lot of TV programs that bug me, including anything that's set up to watch people get themselves in trouble or make a fool of themselves, which is most so-called reality TV. It's one of many reasons I stopped watching TV.

And there are a lot of things that don't happen much in today's USA, although the age versus distance of less-monitored travel still depends some on the child, and on the surrounding environment.

[crocheted_stache]

I usually cut DH's hair at home.

The special occasion that prompted our trip was toward the end of our visit, and I didn't have the capacity to tidy up his cut while we were on the go, so I urged him into a local barbershop on the day we were out doing that kind of thing. We can afford one basic pro haircut, and people are going to be taking photos.

MPPs: this breaks a decade-long "no paid haircut" streak.

Also, when you haven't paid for a haircut in ten years, you don't have someone who already knows what you like. The guy did a fine, professional job, but he didn't do what I'd do. I'm waiting for it to grow out enough that I can redo it my way.

[Freedomin5]

We don’t own a TV. This weekend we are at a hotel, and DD was watching Care Bears. The show paused for commercials, and DD got really sad because she couldn’t understand why they would only show half the program and then stop. I had to explain to her how TV commercials works. I basically told her commercials come on so she has time to use the bathroom and get a snack.

[GuitarStv]

We don’t own a TV. This weekend we are at a hotel, and DD was watching Care Bears. The show paused for commercials, and DD got really sad because she couldn’t understand why they would only show half the program and then stop. I had to explain to her how TV commercials works. I basically told her commercials come on so she has time to use the bathroom and get a snack.

Commercials were prime time to discuss stuff about the program we were watching too.

[crocheted_stache]

The vacuum cleaner I rescued from a neighbor's curb on extra trash day is starting to develop problems I don't know how to fix. I've only had it 20 years, so I'm still only halfway through the stack of off-brand bags I bulk bought for it.

The hard part is going to be deciding whether to get it professionally repaired or to replace it. It'll be more money either way than I have into it so far.

[zolotiyeruki]

The vacuum cleaner I rescued from a neighbor's curb on extra trash day is starting to develop problems I don't know how to fix. I've only had it 20 years, so I'm still only halfway through the stack of off-brand bags I bulk bought for it.

The hard part is going to be deciding whether to get it professionally repaired or to replace it. It'll be more money either way than I have into it so far.

If it makes you feel any better, DW and I still use the vacuum cleaner we got as a wedding present 21 years ago.  I've replaced a lot of parts on it over the years--belts, bags, filters, hose, hood, cord--and fabricated/rebuilt others (wheels, hook for the cord), while ignoring other things (the hooks for the rigid tubes).  It still runs great, even if parts are getting harder to find!

[crocheted_stache]

The vacuum cleaner I rescued from a neighbor's curb on extra trash day is starting to develop problems I don't know how to fix. I've only had it 20 years, so I'm still only halfway through the stack of off-brand bags I bulk bought for it.

The hard part is going to be deciding whether to get it professionally repaired or to replace it. It'll be more money either way than I have into it so far.

If it makes you feel any better, DW and I still use the vacuum cleaner we got as a wedding present 21 years ago.  I've replaced a lot of parts on it over the years--belts, bags, filters, hose, hood, cord--and fabricated/rebuilt others (wheels, hook for the cord), while ignoring other things (the hooks for the rigid tubes).  It still runs great, even if parts are getting harder to find!

It's making a burnt rubber smell, like a belt is dragging rather than spinning, and there's something wrong with the propulsion system, so vacuuming is a literal drag. I really wouldn't mind spending money on a new one if it were lighter, quieter, more effective, more reliable, etc. As usual, money isn't the hold-up. I don't know what kind I want.

[jinga nation]

Pool timer went wonky late last week. Investigated, found the clock motor to be dead. With manual override, the timer functions.
Purchasing the clock motor and the insulator card (because that was missing in the pool's electrical panel) was close to $50. For a couple of dollars more, I could buy a new entire internal assembly online. Purchased and installed.
Now, I want to get a new clock motor for the old timer and fix it, and keep as spare. Per internet forums and youtube and blogs, the newer timers, although they are identical, don't seem to last as long as they did "back in the day".
I just don't like throwing away repairable equipment.

Wife complained her favorite sandals were peeling at the sole. My stupid mouth said "I can fix that; I haz bike tube repair glue and sandpaper." She's retiring from FT work in a week or so, so she said she's going to find more stuff for me to fix. SMH FML

[Sugaree]

Guess who has to have a new HVAC unit.  Ugh.  I mean, mine was only made in 1989.  I've actually known this was coming for awhile and have had a chunk of cash stashed in my HYSA specifically earmarked for it.  I'm more pissed off that it's going to take at least two weeks to be installed.

[zolotiyeruki]

Pool timer went wonky late last week. Investigated, found the clock motor to be dead. With manual override, the timer functions.
Purchasing the clock motor and the insulator card (because that was missing in the pool's electrical panel) was close to $50. For a couple of dollars more, I could buy a new entire internal assembly online. Purchased and installed.
Now, I want to get a new clock motor for the old timer and fix it, and keep as spare. Per internet forums and youtube and blogs, the newer timers, although they are identical, don't seem to last as long as they did "back in the day".
I just don't like throwing away repairable equipment.

About ten years ago, the mechanical timer for the parking lot lights stopped working, due to ...a motor stopping.  I disassembled the not-serviceable motor, cleaned out the crusties and gunk, greased it up, and put it back together.  It's run fine every since.  I also bought a used water softener around the same time, which had a similar problem and a similar solution.  A decade later, it's still humming along.

But yeah, I have the same problem as you.  Some friends are taking their old minivan to the junkyard this week.  They've maintained it meticulously, but it has 275k miles and there's something significant wrong with the engine.  They're not mechanically minded, so they couldn't tell me exactly what the issue is.  They offered it to me to fix it up, and I could, but...we already have more vehicles than we need, so I'd be fixing it up to sell, and it'd be a big job, and I'm already busy fixing up our own cars.

Speaking of which, here's my MPP for the day:  the old car my son and I fixed up needs new shocks.  In the process of replacing one of the shocks, a rusty brake line started leaking.  So that car is still out of commission, and I'll be replacing a bunch of brake lines.  I suppose, though, that having it break at that moment was good fortune--better there in the garage, with the car jacked up and the wheel off already, than at some point while I'm driving down the road!

[GuitarStv]

Speaking of which, here's my MPP for the day:  the old car my son and I fixed up needs new shocks.  In the process of replacing one of the shocks, a rusty brake line started leaking.  So that car is still out of commission, and I'll be replacing a bunch of brake lines.  I suppose, though, that having it break at that moment was good fortune--better there in the garage, with the car jacked up and the wheel off already, than at some point while I'm driving down the road!

Yep.

When I was very young and asking about maintenance for my first car my dad said that there are really only two really important parts of a vehicle - the tires and the brakes.  Those are the bits that tend to keep you alive.

[Freedomin5]

Today’s MPP: We are spending a week in the VHCOL city of Hong Kong. To save some money, I baked chocolate muffins to cover a few breakfasts, and once we arrived, we bought peanut butter and bread at the local grocery store. DH likes to add a wodge of peanut butter to the muffin for extra protein.

I was washing our Tupperware this morning in the bathroom sink, and after washing, used the hotel’s towel to dry. What I didn’t realize was that I had missed a tiny speck of chocolate muffin and a little smear of peanut butter. When I wiped the Tupperware, that smudge of dark and light brown transferred onto the bright white towel. I currently have the towels bunched up tightly around the smear, hoping that the cleaners won’t see it and think we pooped on their towels. I doubt they’ll put their nose close enough to the smear to realize it’s peanut butter and chocolate.

If we were non-Mustachian and ate all our meals out, we wouldn’t have this embarrassing problem.

[Dicey]

Today’s MPP: We are spending a week in the VHCOL city of Hong Kong. To save some money, I baked chocolate muffins to cover a few breakfasts, and once we arrived, we bought peanut butter and bread at the local grocery store. DH likes to add a wodge of peanut butter to the muffin for extra protein.

I was washing our Tupperware this morning in the bathroom sink, and after washing, used the hotel’s towel to dry. What I didn’t realize was that I had missed a tiny speck of chocolate muffin and a little smear of peanut butter. When I wiped the Tupperware, that smudge of dark and light brown transferred onto the bright white towel. I currently have the towels bunched up tightly around the smear, hoping that the cleaners won’t see it and think we pooped on their towels. I doubt they’ll put their nose close enough to the smear to realize it’s peanut butter and chocolate.

If we were non-Mustachian and ate all our meals out, we wouldn’t have this embarrassing problem.

A little soap or shampoo on the towel wouldn't take it out?

[By the River]

Yesterday morning, I was listening to local talk radio as I'm going to the grocery store.  The topic was a new poll showing that over 40% of working age adults in my state are not in the workforce.  Those puritan work ethic hairs starting rising on my neck but then I thought about it...my wife and I are both in that 40%.  Thank you FIRE promoters and to our younger selves who decided to save some money. 

[GuitarStv]

Yesterday morning, I was listening to local talk radio as I'm going to the grocery store.  The topic was a new poll showing that over 40% of working age adults in my state are not in the workforce.  Those puritan work ethic hairs starting rising on my neck but then I thought about it...my wife and I are both in that 40%.  Thank you FIRE promoters and to our younger selves who decided to save some money.

Given average savings rates, 40% seems like an awful lot of unemployed people.  That sounds a little concerning.

[Gerard]

Given average savings rates, 40% seems like an awful lot of unemployed people.  That sounds a little concerning.

Stay at home parents/partners/caregivers, students, the severely disabled, early retirees, off-the-gridders, the currently unemployed, the chronically unemployed, the incarcerated... doesn't seem too out of line. Now if 40% of the active labour force didn't have a job...

[GuitarStv]

Given average savings rates, 40% seems like an awful lot of unemployed people.  That sounds a little concerning.

Stay at home parents/partners/caregivers, students, the severely disabled, early retirees, off-the-gridders, the currently unemployed, the chronically unemployed, the incarcerated... doesn't seem too out of line. Now if 40% of the active labour force didn't have a job...

Ah, good call.  My brain translated 'working age people' into 'active labour force'.  :P