Author Topic: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)  (Read 5118516 times)

Dollar Slice

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10200 on: January 30, 2024, 08:22:43 AM »
Latest MPP: Empower has now auto-classified my various bike shop purchases as
  • Hobbies
  • Automotive
  • Restaurants (?!)

There's a category for "travel," which I'm reluctantly using as a stand-in for the non-existent "transportation."

I used to endlessly confuse Mint because I repeatedly did:
Vanguard (investments)
The Village Vanguard (a great jazz club)
Harvard Vanguard (medical group practice)

And it would just see the word "Vanguard" and think it must be the same as the last time I did a "Vanguard" thing. Had to reclassify it almost every time.

glacio09

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10201 on: January 30, 2024, 11:31:15 AM »
I work for a company that is also very ubiquitous in modern society. Unfortunately, my paycheck and the retail shop come through as the exact same short merchant name in my bank statement and each of the individual stores have different expanded names. It seems that Monarch's AI is starting to figure it out, but there's no combination of rules to catch it every time.

sayonara

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10202 on: January 30, 2024, 01:31:07 PM »
My MPP from a few months ago - I had just wrapped up building a camper van and was headed up from Washington state into Canada & Alaska to enjoy the balance of summer traveling through some national parks, checking out the remote lakes of the Yukon, visiting friends, hiking, biking, etc. I had no specific pre-planned route, no specific timeline to get through the area and back down into the Lower 48 - after all, one of the best parts of being a retired mustachian is to follow life as we please and as it comes to us, without too much of that planning ahead stuff. But, with me as a 30-year old single male, the Canadian border patrol agent wasn't so convinced. Conversation went something like this -

Me: *Drives up to border, enjoying the scenery, with an unsuspecting smile plastered on my face*

Canadian Border Agent: "Where are you headed?"

Me: "Oh, I plan to head on up through BC and the into the Yukon, eventually making my way into Alaska"

BA: "Is that right? And how long are you going to be in Canada?"

Me: "Well, probably 2-4 weeks on the way up. Maybe something similar on the way back down after coming back in from Alaska and heading south. Depends a little bit on the weather, and if I meet some cool people along the way who have ideas of other things to see. Maybe a little bit longer if that happens."

BA: *Looks at my $10k, self-converted 2010 Ford Transit Connect van with 145,000 miles on it that gets great mileage for a van but doesn't exactly scream 'normal and well-heeled traveller'* - "And how exactly do you intend to finance these travels? Do you understand that it's expensive to travel through Canada, and you're talking about 2+ months in our country. You do understand that it's illegal to work while you are here, and I'm going to need proof that you are able to finance your travels".

Me: *Realizing that I probably should've shown up a little bit more than 0% prepared for this conversation* - "Um, well, yes, I mean, I understand that. But, I have the money though".

BA: *Suspicion deepening rapidly* - "And what exactly do you do for work that allows you to be gone for months at a time and not work while you're here?"

Me: *Realizing this is not going to go well, but without enough time to think of something that sounds less ridiculous* - "Um, well, I'm.... retired, sir".

BA: "You're what?"

Me: *At this point, the look on BA's face shows clearly what he's thinking - that my story is most ridiculous fake cover-up story of all time and that I have now fully convinced him that I am entering his country primarily to participate in one or multiple illicit activities, for a minimum of 3 months, possibly in perpetuity* - "Well, yeah... you know... I mean... I'm... retired..."

BA: "I'm going to need you to shut off your car right now, and come with me. We'll be searching your vehicle and my colleague over there is going to take down and record all of your answers to our questions....."

-----

All of this ended up costing me 2+ hours in the interrogation room with them searching every nook and cranny of my vehicle inside and out... I'm convinced they were deeply disappointed when the worst thing they found was that my bear spray wasn't properly secured and fell onto the passenger seat floorboard when they knocked it over.

-----

Moral of the story - Sometimes it pays to prepare the "off-the-shelf regular person" answer, or something similar to it. I'll keep that in mind next summer when the great white north comes calling once again.


Dollar Slice

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10203 on: January 30, 2024, 02:50:37 PM »
Me: *Realizing that I probably should've shown up a little bit more than 0% prepared for this conversation* - "Um, well, yes, I mean, I understand that. But, I have the money though".

BA: *Suspicion deepening rapidly* - "And what exactly do you do for work that allows you to be gone for months at a time and not work while you're here?"

For future reference, the phrase you want to go with is "independently wealthy," not "retired." That could include things like an inheritance, trust fund, lottery win, startup sale, and other things much less weird when you're 30.

deborah

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10204 on: January 30, 2024, 02:56:00 PM »
I can just imagine what would have happened if youd been going in the other direction, as a Canadian rather than a US citizen.

The first time I visited Canada l had been wandering through the Great Lakes, and naively decided that I could visit Lake Michigan for a day. That meant crossing the border. I had an esta, so I was legal. However, as an enemy alien (I think your president of the time had just said that we were the closest of allies), I had to say where I was staying in the US. A day trip, to admire the lake, and find lunch at whatever place I could find that overlooked the lake and then come back to Canada to stay in a hotel where Id already booked my accommodation didnt cut muster. I had to have a US address - even the US address of where I was having lunch would do.

I wont go into the remaining time I spent within a kilometre of the border, but the total experience has etched itself in my mind as one of my worst ever.

nouveauRiche

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10205 on: January 31, 2024, 06:22:01 PM »

The first time I visited Canada l had been wandering through the Great Lakes, and naively decided that I could visit Lake Michigan for a day.


Out of curiosity, can I ask which border crossing this was?  From Detroit or Port Huron, it's about a six hour round trip to Lake Michigan.  Sault Ste. Marie to St. Ignace is only 50 miles but that's not the first Canadian border crossing that comes to mind.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10206 on: January 31, 2024, 08:14:38 PM »
I had a similar experience years ago sayonara although i was far from retired at the time.

I had a goal of making it to every state in the US and was short Michigan, Ohio, and West Virginia. I had plenty of SW airlines miles and a long weekend so I flew from Abu to Ohio with a plan to drive around Lake Erie with a little spur into W Virginia... Figured I'd see both side of Niagara falls that way. I brought nothing with my but a very small carry on bag.

When I got to the border with Canada they asked the reason for my visit and I explained the above. So they searched my rental car.

Got back to the US border and they again asked the reason for my trip. I explained again. And they searched the rental car too. They did seem to find my answer to "did you buy anything in Canada" amusing. "Gas and Tim Hortons."

Apparently it was just unbelievable that a 30 year old would just want to see a bit more of the continent.

Possibly helpful for future trips: The correct answer for how long you'll be in Canada when driving WA to AK is also not "36 hours" although it is technically possible to make the drive in that amount of time driving the speed limit.

deborah

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10207 on: January 31, 2024, 11:11:07 PM »

The first time I visited Canada l had been wandering through the Great Lakes, and naively decided that I could visit Lake Michigan for a day.


Out of curiosity, can I ask which border crossing this was?  From Detroit or Port Huron, it's about a six hour round trip to Lake Michigan.  Sault Ste. Marie to St. Ignace is only 50 miles but that's not the first Canadian border crossing that comes to mind.
Yes, Sault Ste. Marie.

AnotherEngineer

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10208 on: February 01, 2024, 08:07:17 AM »
I had a similar experience years ago sayonara although i was far from retired at the time.

I had a goal of making it to every state in the US and was short Michigan, Ohio, and West Virginia. I had plenty of SW airlines miles and a long weekend so I flew from Abu to Ohio with a plan to drive around Lake Erie with a little spur into W Virginia... Figured I'd see both side of Niagara falls that way. I brought nothing with my but a very small carry on bag.

When I got to the border with Canada they asked the reason for my visit and I explained the above. So they searched my rental car.

Got back to the US border and they again asked the reason for my trip. I explained again. And they searched the rental car too. They did seem to find my answer to "did you buy anything in Canada" amusing. "Gas and Tim Hortons."

Apparently it was just unbelievable that a 30 year old would just want to see a bit more of the continent.

Possibly helpful for future trips: The correct answer for how long you'll be in Canada when driving WA to AK is also not "36 hours" although it is technically possible to make the drive in that amount of time driving the speed limit.

On the contrary, sometimes saying you will be in Canada only a short time may be a benefit. We had an exciting border crossing moment moving out of Alaska (tear) during COVID. The passport renewals were so backed up my wife didn't actually have a valid passport when we pulled up to the remote Alcan crossing. We had all the paperwork to make it through the closed-to-tourists border because we were moving, but we also had a ferry to Bellingham to catch, so our Plan B if they wouldn't let her in was we leave her at the border to hitchhike 300 miles to Fairbanks to catch a flight to catch back up to the ferry. Note that while hitchhiking is more common in AK, there are few cars on that very rural road even when the border is open, so this was not a good option for many reasons. Many reasons...  Thankfully after a long dialogue they let us through. We had called ahead and had reason to believe this would happen, but I think think three kids in the back helped, as did we were only going to Haines for the ferry as COVID rules meant we couldn't camp or stop at Laird Hot Springs or visit Banff/Jasper on the way. We ended up driving through beautiful but deserted highways of Yukon and BC for six hours to get back into Alaska near Haines. (Yes you have to drive through Canada to get between parts of Alaska.) I don't remember the US border guards taking more than 30 seconds to let us back in.

deborah

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10209 on: February 01, 2024, 01:01:22 PM »
Those same US border guards stole my capsicums when I went through in an RV. Id hired the RV to go from Seattle to anchorage, and went into the Alaskan panhandle at every opportunity. At each border crossing, the US border guards stole a different vegetable, even though I had the same ones each time. However, they didnt expect me to give an address where Id be staying.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10210 on: February 01, 2024, 01:26:18 PM »
Those same US border guards stole my capsicums when I went through in an RV. Id hired the RV to go from Seattle to anchorage, and went into the Alaskan panhandle at every opportunity. At each border crossing, the US border guards stole a different vegetable, even though I had the same ones each time. However, they didnt expect me to give an address where Id be staying.

Sounds like a good opportunity for trying to smuggle a California Reaper.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10211 on: February 01, 2024, 01:30:13 PM »
I had a similar experience years ago sayonara although i was far from retired at the time.

I had a goal of making it to every state in the US and was short Michigan, Ohio, and West Virginia. I had plenty of SW airlines miles and a long weekend so I flew from Abu to Ohio with a plan to drive around Lake Erie with a little spur into W Virginia... Figured I'd see both side of Niagara falls that way. I brought nothing with my but a very small carry on bag.

When I got to the border with Canada they asked the reason for my visit and I explained the above. So they searched my rental car.

Got back to the US border and they again asked the reason for my trip. I explained again. And they searched the rental car too. They did seem to find my answer to "did you buy anything in Canada" amusing. "Gas and Tim Hortons."

Apparently it was just unbelievable that a 30 year old would just want to see a bit more of the continent.

Possibly helpful for future trips: The correct answer for how long you'll be in Canada when driving WA to AK is also not "36 hours" although it is technically possible to make the drive in that amount of time driving the speed limit.

On the contrary, sometimes saying you will be in Canada only a short time may be a benefit. We had an exciting border crossing moment moving out of Alaska (tear) during COVID. The passport renewals were so backed up my wife didn't actually have a valid passport when we pulled up to the remote Alcan crossing. We had all the paperwork to make it through the closed-to-tourists border because we were moving, but we also had a ferry to Bellingham to catch, so our Plan B if they wouldn't let her in was we leave her at the border to hitchhike 300 miles to Fairbanks to catch a flight to catch back up to the ferry. Note that while hitchhiking is more common in AK, there are few cars on that very rural road even when the border is open, so this was not a good option for many reasons. Many reasons...  Thankfully after a long dialogue they let us through. We had called ahead and had reason to believe this would happen, but I think think three kids in the back helped, as did we were only going to Haines for the ferry as COVID rules meant we couldn't camp or stop at Laird Hot Springs or visit Banff/Jasper on the way. We ended up driving through beautiful but deserted highways of Yukon and BC for six hours to get back into Alaska near Haines. (Yes you have to drive through Canada to get between parts of Alaska.) I don't remember the US border guards taking more than 30 seconds to let us back in.

I know that border station well! I even hitchhiked through it back 2002. They also let me back into Canada one time an hour after I'd left so I could buy gas in the town there because the place on the US side was closed. (For anyone who hasn't crossed that border the US and Canadian stations are 20 miles/30km apart) If your wife had hitched back to Fairbanks she would have gone through the town I grew up in on the way.

I'll bet you had some long sections without seeing another car with covid restrictions. I started a drive back to AK the day they lifted their entry limitations. It was a little nerve wracking that morning because there was no announcement before hand. I had all my paperwork lined up and ready to go. I was sitting on the ferry back to Seattle and tried to check in with the app only to have nothing work. After about 5 minutes of trying things, I googled it and discovered they dropped all the restrictions that day. That trip the only issue was convince boarder patrol that I really did have permission to drive my friends car to Alaska for him. Fortunately she accepted our text conversation which included pictures of where he'd left the car.


Taran Wanderer

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10212 on: February 01, 2024, 10:48:39 PM »
So many funny stories about heading into Canada.

Canadian border official:  Why is her last name different? (DW kept her maiden name)
Me:  Because shes stubborn.
Him:  :|
Me:  Uh, well sir, if youll notice, the kids have her last name as their middle name.
Him:  Eye roll, waved us through.

Different trip:
Canadian border official:  Do you have any guns?
Me:  No.
Her:  Do you have any alcohol?
Me:  No, wait, honey, did my dad send that beer with us?
Her:  Eyeroll
DW:  No, we dont have alcohol.
Canadian border official:  Okay, lets try this again. Do you have any guns?
Me:  No.
Her:  Do you have any alcohol?
Me:  No.
Her:  Welcome to Canada, eh!  Yes, she actually said eh.

There are more, but theyre too foamy.

The Beebsta

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10213 on: February 03, 2024, 03:32:19 PM »
I finally have a mustachian people problem.

Ive been watching our superannuation balances (Australian retirement account) daily for the last  couple of weeks as they inch ever closer to a combined value of $1m for SO & I. I made sure to push through my last 2 months of contributions this week (self employed so I pay the contributions from company bank account) to try to get us over the line. I logged in today and the balance is $999,965. My MPP is that while I am tempted to transfer $36 to get to a balance of $1,000,001 its  Sunday and transfers are not instant, they take a day or two to be processed. So even if I transfer the money, depending on the mood of the market gods tomorrow, I could be well over or well under the $1m mark. I guess I just have to wait patiently for a few more days or weeks to hit this milestone and share the good news with my SO. They dont know this is coming, I told them several months ago that we had hit $930k. Im fairly sure their reaction will be along the lines of oh ok.

Dave1442397

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10214 on: February 03, 2024, 06:22:17 PM »
I finally have a mustachian people problem.

Ive been watching our superannuation balances (Australian retirement account) daily for the last  couple of weeks as they inch ever closer to a combined value of $1m for SO & I. I made sure to push through my last 2 months of contributions this week (self employed so I pay the contributions from company bank account) to try to get us over the line. I logged in today and the balance is $999,965. My MPP is that while I am tempted to transfer $36 to get to a balance of $1,000,001 its  Sunday and transfers are not instant, they take a day or two to be processed. So even if I transfer the money, depending on the mood of the market gods tomorrow, I could be well over or well under the $1m mark. I guess I just have to wait patiently for a few more days or weeks to hit this milestone and share the good news with my SO. They dont know this is coming, I told them several months ago that we had hit $930k. Im fairly sure their reaction will be along the lines of oh ok.

Funny, I update my spreadsheet on the second of the month. Friday's stock market gains bumped our 401(k) balance from $993,631.48 on Friday morning to $1,001,982.91 today. It feels good to see that second comma show up! Hopefully it'll still be there at the end of the month.

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10215 on: February 03, 2024, 06:30:58 PM »
I finally have a mustachian people problem.

Ive been watching our superannuation balances (Australian retirement account) daily for the last  couple of weeks as they inch ever closer to a combined value of $1m for SO & I. I made sure to push through my last 2 months of contributions this week (self employed so I pay the contributions from company bank account) to try to get us over the line. I logged in today and the balance is $999,965. My MPP is that while I am tempted to transfer $36 to get to a balance of $1,000,001 its  Sunday and transfers are not instant, they take a day or two to be processed. So even if I transfer the money, depending on the mood of the market gods tomorrow, I could be well over or well under the $1m mark. I guess I just have to wait patiently for a few more days or weeks to hit this milestone and share the good news with my SO. They dont know this is coming, I told them several months ago that we had hit $930k. Im fairly sure their reaction will be along the lines of oh ok.

Funny, I update my spreadsheet on the second of the month. Friday's stock market gains bumped our 401(k) balance from $993,631.48 on Friday morning to $1,001,982.91 today. It feels good to see that second comma show up! Hopefully it'll still be there at the end of the month.
Congratulations!

The Beebsta

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10216 on: February 03, 2024, 09:21:04 PM »
I finally have a mustachian people problem.

Ive been watching our superannuation balances (Australian retirement account) daily for the last  couple of weeks as they inch ever closer to a combined value of $1m for SO & I. I made sure to push through my last 2 months of contributions this week (self employed so I pay the contributions from company bank account) to try to get us over the line. I logged in today and the balance is $999,965. My MPP is that while I am tempted to transfer $36 to get to a balance of $1,000,001 its  Sunday and transfers are not instant, they take a day or two to be processed. So even if I transfer the money, depending on the mood of the market gods tomorrow, I could be well over or well under the $1m mark. I guess I just have to wait patiently for a few more days or weeks to hit this milestone and share the good news with my SO. They dont know this is coming, I told them several months ago that we had hit $930k. Im fairly sure their reaction will be along the lines of oh ok.

Funny, I update my spreadsheet on the second of the month. Friday's stock market gains bumped our 401(k) balance from $993,631.48 on Friday morning to $1,001,982.91 today. It feels good to see that second comma show up! Hopefully it'll still be there at the end of the month.
Congratulations!
Congratulations @Dave1442397 . The silver lining if its not still over $1m at the end of the month is that you get to celebrate this milestone again when it is! It seems like a milestone that will possibly get repeated a couple of times given how bouncy the markets are lately. I wonder how many times I can justify a bottle of champagne to celebrate hitting this milestone. 🤣

Dave1442397

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10217 on: February 04, 2024, 06:51:27 AM »
I finally have a mustachian people problem.

Ive been watching our superannuation balances (Australian retirement account) daily for the last  couple of weeks as they inch ever closer to a combined value of $1m for SO & I. I made sure to push through my last 2 months of contributions this week (self employed so I pay the contributions from company bank account) to try to get us over the line. I logged in today and the balance is $999,965. My MPP is that while I am tempted to transfer $36 to get to a balance of $1,000,001 its  Sunday and transfers are not instant, they take a day or two to be processed. So even if I transfer the money, depending on the mood of the market gods tomorrow, I could be well over or well under the $1m mark. I guess I just have to wait patiently for a few more days or weeks to hit this milestone and share the good news with my SO. They dont know this is coming, I told them several months ago that we had hit $930k. Im fairly sure their reaction will be along the lines of oh ok.

Funny, I update my spreadsheet on the second of the month. Friday's stock market gains bumped our 401(k) balance from $993,631.48 on Friday morning to $1,001,982.91 today. It feels good to see that second comma show up! Hopefully it'll still be there at the end of the month.
Congratulations!
Congratulations @Dave1442397 . The silver lining if its not still over $1m at the end of the month is that you get to celebrate this milestone again when it is! It seems like a milestone that will possibly get repeated a couple of times given how bouncy the markets are lately. I wonder how many times I can justify a bottle of champagne to celebrate hitting this milestone. 🤣

Thanks @Dicey, and congrats to you too, @The Beebsta !

It's fun keeping track of things. I started my spreadsheet in November 2016, which is when I found MMM and got serious about paying off debt and building net worth. Between 1/1/17 and 1/1/24 our net worth increased by $997,285, and we now have a net worth of $1,405,999.

I've been letting my daughter (now 19) keep an eye on the spreadsheet for the past few years, and we got her started with a Roth IRA, which has $7k in it now. She has a net worth of $10.5k, which is $10k more than I had at that age :)

I wish I'd known all this 30 years ago, but at least we got with the program before it's too late.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10218 on: February 04, 2024, 01:16:47 PM »
Different trip:
Canadian border official:  Do you have any guns?
Me:  No.
Her:  Do you have any alcohol?
Me:  No, wait, honey, did my dad send that beer with us?
Her:  Eyeroll
DW:  No, we dont have alcohol.
Canadian border official:  Okay, lets try this again. Do you have any guns?
Me:  No.
Her:  Do you have any alcohol?
Me:  No.
Her:  Welcome to Canada, eh!  Yes, she actually said eh.

There are more, but theyre too foamy.
My dad did the intentional version at the UK border. There was a line "nothing to declare" which had about an hours wait and a line "something to declare" which was basically pay and go.
My dad always had a pack of Grolsch beer with a re-usable stopper for my uncle (who brewed his own beer in it). So dad innocently goes through the "to declare" line and asks whether he needs to declare the beer to pay taxes and such. The border guys just waved him on, each time. He crossed the border like monthly when my gran was in bad health...

We also had a laugh with at the border when we were talking about Steve the houseplant hidden in the boot (because of invasive species rules). The officer heard Steve and "hidden in the boot" but he didn't believe we were talking about a plant. We had a mutual laugh when he learned the truth 😂

Sibley

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10219 on: February 04, 2024, 07:58:05 PM »
A very silly MPP today: I, like others on this site, have a spreadsheet. And it has amortization schedules. Keep this in mind.

The car will be paid off in March (very low % so I'm letting it ride), but I have to wait for the calendar to turn, slowly, for the February payment to post, then the statement, and then for March to make the final payment. And all along I look at my spreadsheet and see that I have just 2 payments left. These last 2 lines, just hanging out there, are really bothering me. So untidy. I have the cash. I could easily pay it off today. But damn it, I am not paying early. I'm earning double in interest than I'm paying. This coming week the February payment will post, so I'll only have 1 line sitting there, teasing me.

The Beebsta

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10220 on: February 05, 2024, 04:19:02 AM »
I finally have a mustachian people problem.

Ive been watching our superannuation balances (Australian retirement account) daily for the last  couple of weeks as they inch ever closer to a combined value of $1m for SO & I. I made sure to push through my last 2 months of contributions this week (self employed so I pay the contributions from company bank account) to try to get us over the line. I logged in today and the balance is $999,965. My MPP is that while I am tempted to transfer $36 to get to a balance of $1,000,001 its  Sunday and transfers are not instant, they take a day or two to be processed. So even if I transfer the money, depending on the mood of the market gods tomorrow, I could be well over or well under the $1m mark. I guess I just have to wait patiently for a few more days or weeks to hit this milestone and share the good news with my SO. They dont know this is coming, I told them several months ago that we had hit $930k. Im fairly sure their reaction will be along the lines of oh ok.

Funny, I update my spreadsheet on the second of the month. Friday's stock market gains bumped our 401(k) balance from $993,631.48 on Friday morning to $1,001,982.91 today. It feels good to see that second comma show up! Hopefully it'll still be there at the end of the month.
Congratulations!
Congratulations @Dave1442397 . The silver lining if its not still over $1m at the end of the month is that you get to celebrate this milestone again when it is! It seems like a milestone that will possibly get repeated a couple of times given how bouncy the markets are lately. I wonder how many times I can justify a bottle of champagne to celebrate hitting this milestone. 🤣

Thanks @Dicey, and congrats to you too, @The Beebsta !

It's fun keeping track of things. I started my spreadsheet in November 2016, which is when I found MMM and got serious about paying off debt and building net worth. Between 1/1/17 and 1/1/24 our net worth increased by $997,285, and we now have a net worth of $1,405,999.

I've been letting my daughter (now 19) keep an eye on the spreadsheet for the past few years, and we got her started with a Roth IRA, which has $7k in it now. She has a net worth of $10.5k, which is $10k more than I had at that age :)

I wish I'd known all this 30 years ago, but at least we got with the program before it's too late.

The stock market gods smiled on me today. Balance is $1,005,438. Woohoo!

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10221 on: February 07, 2024, 02:33:58 PM »
I used the HSA bank's tools to make a lump sum payment after the last seed money was deposited
 So why do I have an excess contribution of $200?!? 

And, of course, the only way to request a return of excess contribution is to print a paper form and snail mail it. What century even is this?!?

BicycleB

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10222 on: February 08, 2024, 12:27:42 PM »
I've been bummed about my net worth in Mint going nowhere for the past 3 months despite some kickass returns on long-term bond trades. Then I realized my accounts last updated 3 months ago, and my brokerage was absorbed in a merger during that time, breaking the links. Thus I was looking at my NW from 3 months ago. After some quick calculator math I found that I am a millionaire. A lazy one who doesn't always pay attention to details, but a millionaire nonetheless.

Congrats, @ChpBstrd!

Or are you chaninging your screen name to ChpLzyBstrd?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10223 on: February 08, 2024, 12:36:27 PM »
I've been bummed about my net worth in Mint going nowhere for the past 3 months despite some kickass returns on long-term bond trades. Then I realized my accounts last updated 3 months ago, and my brokerage was absorbed in a merger during that time, breaking the links. Thus I was looking at my NW from 3 months ago. After some quick calculator math I found that I am a millionaire. A lazy one who doesn't always pay attention to details, but a millionaire nonetheless.

Congrats, @ChpBstrd!

Or are you chaninging your screen name to ChpLzyBstrd?
Too much work

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10224 on: February 08, 2024, 12:39:55 PM »
MPP: it's cold outside and in my house, too. My bed is warm and cozy, so I'm still in it. I have a dental appointment at 1:00. I don't suppose I can get my teeth cleaned via Zoom, alas.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10225 on: February 08, 2024, 01:11:08 PM »
Here is a social MPP:

My weekly golf league group of 3 friends are headed to a new course this season because they offer morning tee times instead of the hot afternoon league play that was demanded of our old course.  2 of us are retired and the 3rd has talked constantly about how she will retire in the spring of 2024 because she will finally have access to Medicare and is pulling the plug from her multi-decade retail mall gig which she hated.  Yay freedom! 

Well crap.  She has now announced that she isn't going to retire after all and just changed her job to a full time day job and can't join us at all.  I don't know all the reasons behind it yet but it must have been serious for her to pull the rug out from under herself just a couple months from the finish line.  Fear?  Other catastrophe (divorce, illness, something terrible)?  Lack of planning?  Unknown, but perhaps I will hear more later.     

The MPP is waiting for friends to join me in retirement and feeling a sense of loss and even misplaced anger when they can't do it.  My golf friend has been miserable and I am glad she is getting out of the retail job with its shift work and associated difficulty but I feel sad that her plans didn't work out and she will have to continue to grind in the workforce.  My MPP is losing track of the fact that not everyone makes it out as planned, and I feel guilty for my fleeting sense of resentment. 

People have troubles, and they get to live their lives.  I forgot that I am weird.  At least I didn't say anything stupid to damage the relationship and I will hope she may yet join us.   

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10226 on: February 08, 2024, 01:25:22 PM »
Here is a social MPP:

My weekly golf league group of 3 friends are headed to a new course this season because they offer morning tee times instead of the hot afternoon league play that was demanded of our old course.  2 of us are retired and the 3rd has talked constantly about how she will retire in the spring of 2024 because she will finally have access to Medicare and is pulling the plug from her multi-decade retail mall gig which she hated.  Yay freedom! 

Well crap.  She has now announced that she isn't going to retire after all and just changed her job to a full time day job and can't join us at all.  I don't know all the reasons behind it yet but it must have been serious for her to pull the rug out from under herself just a couple months from the finish line.  Fear?  Other catastrophe (divorce, illness, something terrible)?  Lack of planning?  Unknown, but perhaps I will hear more later.     

The MPP is waiting for friends to join me in retirement and feeling a sense of loss and even misplaced anger when they can't do it.  My golf friend has been miserable and I am glad she is getting out of the retail job with its shift work and associated difficulty but I feel sad that her plans didn't work out and she will have to continue to grind in the workforce.  My MPP is losing track of the fact that not everyone makes it out as planned, and I feel guilty for my fleeting sense of resentment. 

People have troubles, and they get to live their lives.  I forgot that I am weird.  At least I didn't say anything stupid to damage the relationship and I will hope she may yet join us.   

There is a chance she just considers this an interesting opportunity.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10227 on: February 08, 2024, 01:34:31 PM »
I don't think so since she announced the change regretfully rather than talking about the great new job opportunity, just said it was full time days.  That is a good upgrade for her but compared to retirement it can't be that great.  There was no conflict among our group that would make her want to avoid us so nothing there either, just a reversal on her long discussed plans. 

Maybe if the economy improves she would jump immediately with better legs under her at that point.   That would be the best delay; a fear that could be soothed.       

Gerard

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10228 on: February 08, 2024, 06:26:31 PM »
Gerard, I was inspired to look at at few of your other posts. https://optimacheap.wordpress.com/2023/12/05/better-cheap-stuff-doesnt-need-as-much-expensive-stuff-on-it/ is about buying decent ingredients, and I agree, but I can't help reading the headline differently. I'd like to be able to buy a basic, dependable fridge (or other appliance) that just works, and uses the same kind of electromechanical controls that have worked for decades, or maybe has enough electronics for a simple LCD readout for temperature. I don't need a screen, and I don't need it connecting to headquarters.

Yeah, you and me both. I'd also like a quality bike with 3 to 7 gears for the same price as a crap bike with 21.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10229 on: February 08, 2024, 09:39:10 PM »
Gerard, I was inspired to look at at few of your other posts. https://optimacheap.wordpress.com/2023/12/05/better-cheap-stuff-doesnt-need-as-much-expensive-stuff-on-it/ is about buying decent ingredients, and I agree, but I can't help reading the headline differently. I'd like to be able to buy a basic, dependable fridge (or other appliance) that just works, and uses the same kind of electromechanical controls that have worked for decades, or maybe has enough electronics for a simple LCD readout for temperature. I don't need a screen, and I don't need it connecting to headquarters.

Yeah, you and me both. I'd also like a quality bike with 3 to 7 gears for the same price as a crap bike with 21.
The front gear shifter on my 18 speed died.  The top 7 gears work for me.
If Im desperate, I might manually (greasy fingers) go to the middle of the 3 front gears.  I have no idea what the smallest front gear is good for, except to feel hamster-wheel-ish.

Even though I could afford a nicer bike, and Im often encouraged to do so, I demure, as how would I get exercise then?

Thrallama

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10230 on: February 08, 2024, 10:01:48 PM »
A very silly MPP today: I, like others on this site, have a spreadsheet. And it has amortization schedules. Keep this in mind.

The car will be paid off in March (very low % so I'm letting it ride), but I have to wait for the calendar to turn, slowly, for the February payment to post, then the statement, and then for March to make the final payment. And all along I look at my spreadsheet and see that I have just 2 payments left. These last 2 lines, just hanging out there, are really bothering me. So untidy. I have the cash. I could easily pay it off today. But damn it, I am not paying early. I'm earning double in interest than I'm paying. This coming week the February payment will post, so I'll only have 1 line sitting there, teasing me.

I had a similar feeling with my student loans last year. My loans were on Covid forbearance until September 2023 (so zero interest), I had the lump sum to pay them off around January 2023, and I had to watch that big negative number just sit there for 9 months. At least the monthly interest payment from my savings account was encouraging.

Chaplin

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10231 on: February 08, 2024, 11:15:19 PM »
Yeah, you and me both. I'd also like a quality bike with 3 to 7 gears for the same price as a crap bike with 21.
The front gear shifter on my 18 speed died.  The top 7 gears work for me.
If Im desperate, I might manually (greasy fingers) go to the middle of the 3 front gears.  I have no idea what the smallest front gear is good for, except to feel hamster-wheel-ish.

Even though I could afford a nicer bike, and Im often encouraged to do so, I demure, as how would I get exercise then?

For my commuter bike (which had been my mountain bike 20 years earlier) I just removed the front derailleur and left the chain on the middle chainring. It worked great for another several thousand km. The gear range was plenty for getting around town. That might just be me though as I now ride around town mostly on a single-speed which I like even more. Nevertheless, extending the life of an existing bike is a nice win in several ways.

Dave1442397

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10232 on: February 09, 2024, 05:41:46 AM »
Yeah, you and me both. I'd also like a quality bike with 3 to 7 gears for the same price as a crap bike with 21.
The front gear shifter on my 18 speed died.  The top 7 gears work for me.
If Im desperate, I might manually (greasy fingers) go to the middle of the 3 front gears.  I have no idea what the smallest front gear is good for, except to feel hamster-wheel-ish.

Even though I could afford a nicer bike, and Im often encouraged to do so, I demure, as how would I get exercise then?

For my commuter bike (which had been my mountain bike 20 years earlier) I just removed the front derailleur and left the chain on the middle chainring. It worked great for another several thousand km. The gear range was plenty for getting around town. That might just be me though as I now ride around town mostly on a single-speed which I like even more. Nevertheless, extending the life of an existing bike is a nice win in several ways.

It's usually pretty easy to replace a derailleur, as long as you can find a suitable replacement part. I replaced the worn out rear derailleur on my 2014 bike a while back. It shifts like new again, even though it has 39,452 miles on it.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10233 on: February 09, 2024, 08:27:59 AM »
Yeah, you and me both. I'd also like a quality bike with 3 to 7 gears for the same price as a crap bike with 21.
The front gear shifter on my 18 speed died.  The top 7 gears work for me.
If Im desperate, I might manually (greasy fingers) go to the middle of the 3 front gears.  I have no idea what the smallest front gear is good for, except to feel hamster-wheel-ish.

Even though I could afford a nicer bike, and Im often encouraged to do so, I demure, as how would I get exercise then?
For my commuter bike (which had been my mountain bike 20 years earlier) I just removed the front derailleur and left the chain on the middle chainring. It worked great for another several thousand km. The gear range was plenty for getting around town. That might just be me though as I now ride around town mostly on a single-speed which I like even more. Nevertheless, extending the life of an existing bike is a nice win in several ways.
In the mountain bike world, all the chatter is about how we NEED the range of gears offered by 12-speed systems. I ride my 12-speed exclusively between the ranges of 3rd and 9th gear, and have never been in a situation calling for gears outside that range.

jeninco

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10234 on: February 09, 2024, 10:08:47 AM »
Yeah, you and me both. I'd also like a quality bike with 3 to 7 gears for the same price as a crap bike with 21.
The front gear shifter on my 18 speed died.  The top 7 gears work for me.
If Im desperate, I might manually (greasy fingers) go to the middle of the 3 front gears.  I have no idea what the smallest front gear is good for, except to feel hamster-wheel-ish.

Even though I could afford a nicer bike, and Im often encouraged to do so, I demure, as how would I get exercise then?
For my commuter bike (which had been my mountain bike 20 years earlier) I just removed the front derailleur and left the chain on the middle chainring. It worked great for another several thousand km. The gear range was plenty for getting around town. That might just be me though as I now ride around town mostly on a single-speed which I like even more. Nevertheless, extending the life of an existing bike is a nice win in several ways.
In the mountain bike world, all the chatter is about how we NEED the range of gears offered by 12-speed systems. I ride my 12-speed exclusively between the ranges of 3rd and 9th gear, and have never been in a situation calling for gears outside that range.

Ha, when I had my (road) bike built (it was 15 years ago and the thing has over 20,000 pain-free for me miles on it, and I am a  non-standard size and shape, so I view that as WEP) I got in a semi-argument with the tech. Him "you can get almost the same variety of ratios with a double chain ring." Me "I want to ride up Doc Bill's Hill [the steepest piece of paved road in the county] with my ass in the seat".  Him: "Righty-o" .

I got my third chain ring, obviously -- I'm female and was already over 40 by the time of that conversation: I can't be dick-shamed any more. ("you know, if you were in really good shape..."  Yeah, F off. Sometimes I go for early-season rides, too!)

ChpBstrd

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10235 on: February 09, 2024, 11:35:52 AM »
Yeah, you and me both. I'd also like a quality bike with 3 to 7 gears for the same price as a crap bike with 21.
The front gear shifter on my 18 speed died.  The top 7 gears work for me.
If Im desperate, I might manually (greasy fingers) go to the middle of the 3 front gears.  I have no idea what the smallest front gear is good for, except to feel hamster-wheel-ish.

Even though I could afford a nicer bike, and Im often encouraged to do so, I demure, as how would I get exercise then?
For my commuter bike (which had been my mountain bike 20 years earlier) I just removed the front derailleur and left the chain on the middle chainring. It worked great for another several thousand km. The gear range was plenty for getting around town. That might just be me though as I now ride around town mostly on a single-speed which I like even more. Nevertheless, extending the life of an existing bike is a nice win in several ways.
In the mountain bike world, all the chatter is about how we NEED the range of gears offered by 12-speed systems. I ride my 12-speed exclusively between the ranges of 3rd and 9th gear, and have never been in a situation calling for gears outside that range.

Ha, when I had my (road) bike built (it was 15 years ago and the thing has over 20,000 pain-free for me miles on it, and I am a  non-standard size and shape, so I view that as WEP) I got in a semi-argument with the tech. Him "you can get almost the same variety of ratios with a double chain ring." Me "I want to ride up Doc Bill's Hill [the steepest piece of paved road in the county] with my ass in the seat".  Him: "Righty-o" .

I got my third chain ring, obviously -- I'm female and was already over 40 by the time of that conversation: I can't be dick-shamed any more. ("you know, if you were in really good shape..."  Yeah, F off. Sometimes I go for early-season rides, too!)
Yea maybe it's something about my physique or how I ride.

When hamster wheeling in a very low gear on the MTB it feels like all my energy is going into lifting my legs up and down really fast, when I could spend less energy and go the same speed if I got off the bike and walked it. That makes low gear obsolete for me. At some level of steepness, the front wheel comes off the ground anyway.

Meanwhile the highest gear (i.e. 9-tooth sprocket driven by 32 tooth crank) would drive the bike maybe 40 mph at one crank revolution per second (29" wheel with tall tires). That might work for full time athletes doing downhill races on summertime ski slopes, but on the trails I ride there are no good quarter-mile stretches of long, wide downhill and you would eat a tree within seconds if you went that fast.

My road bike is a 2002 Torrelli Corsa Strada with 2x ultegra crank. It does not have a low gear, because it is a racing bike made for athletes. That makes it hard for my chubby self to climb basic hills in the lowest gear available. I would have to replace most of my top-of-the-line drivetrain to change that, so I just shame myself for being wimpy and stand on the pedals, lol. My personal fitness milestone is being able to climb "snake hill" near me on the Corsa Strada. It involves some zig zagging and I'm wheezing at the top.

My MPP is having amazing bikes whose use cases exceed my ability.

GuitarStv

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10236 on: February 09, 2024, 03:59:01 PM »
See if you can put a compact chainset on the cranks - that'll help a lot with easier gearing if it has a honkin' 52 big ring.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10237 on: February 09, 2024, 10:22:35 PM »
Ive been mountain biking for over 30 years, and I cant say that Ive ever had a gear thats too low. When youre grinding up a hill so steep that youre carefully balancing front wheel lift off vs. real wheel spin vs. sustained max output energy, the lowest of the low gears is hardly low enough.  That said, back in the days of triple front chainrings, I gave up on the big ring because I dont need to go 40-50 mph on a mountain bike (anymore), and that chainring position was more useful for a rock ring for the really technical sections.  Now, though, with a 1 x 11 drivetrain, I get the lowest of lows and all the high gearing I need without having to deal with a front shifter or chain suck between the chainrings.  Todays mountain bike tech is awesome.

jeroly

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10238 on: February 10, 2024, 05:28:40 AM »
My sweetie funded her son's 529 plan with $55k in contributions over the years, and now it's worth $159k.

We just found out that he didn't get into the super-pricey private university he wanted to attend, and barring a last-minute surprise acceptance from his other 'stretch' school, he will go to a state university but will pay the out-of-state rate that, with some scholarship bucks, will cost $46k/yr which she'll split with her baby daddy.

What that means is that the 529 is way overfunded, maybe up to twice what is needed for her share of his undergraduate costs by the time all the bills come in, if the fund continues to appreciate over the next four years.  Now, maybe he'll go on to graduate or professional school (which would solve the MPP) but otherwise we will need to repurpose the extra money -  we'll probably update the 529 to designate her nephew as the beneficiary of the remaining funds when he goes to college in a dozen years or so.

This is a much nicer problem to have than its non-Mustachian equivalent - not having enough in the 529 and needing to come up with extra bucks to pay the college bills...

secondcor521

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10239 on: February 10, 2024, 10:15:06 AM »
My sweetie funded her son's 529 plan with $55k in contributions over the years, and now it's worth $159k.

We just found out that he didn't get into the super-pricey private university he wanted to attend, and barring a last-minute surprise acceptance from his other 'stretch' school, he will go to a state university but will pay the out-of-state rate that, with some scholarship bucks, will cost $46k/yr which she'll split with her baby daddy.

What that means is that the 529 is way overfunded, maybe up to twice what is needed for her share of his undergraduate costs by the time all the bills come in, if the fund continues to appreciate over the next four years.  Now, maybe he'll go on to graduate or professional school (which would solve the MPP) but otherwise we will need to repurpose the extra money -  we'll probably update the 529 to designate her nephew as the beneficiary of the remaining funds when he goes to college in a dozen years or so.

This is a much nicer problem to have than its non-Mustachian equivalent - not having enough in the 529 and needing to come up with extra bucks to pay the college bills...

You can now, subject to some constraints, rollover $35K of his 529 into his Roth IRA.

pasadenafr

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10240 on: February 10, 2024, 12:15:21 PM »
Just filed my tax return, and I'm getting $5k back. For most people that would be awesome! But all I can think about is WTH?! Where did I screw up when I did the math to update my W4 when I got my bonus?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy I'll get $5k I didn't expect, but I'm also very, very annoyed at myself because that's money that would otherwise have been invested in Sep-Dec 2023.

Also, I sold $20k of IBonds on 12/28 BECAUSE I FORGOT I HAD PLANNED ON WAITING 3 DAYS UNTIL THE NEW YEAR.

dividendman

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10241 on: February 10, 2024, 04:30:38 PM »
Just filed my tax return, and I'm getting $5k back. For most people that would be awesome! But all I can think about is WTH?! Where did I screw up when I did the math to update my W4 when I got my bonus?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy I'll get $5k I didn't expect, but I'm also very, very annoyed at myself because that's money that would otherwise have been invested in Sep-Dec 2023.

Also, I sold $20k of IBonds on 12/28 BECAUSE I FORGOT I HAD PLANNED ON WAITING 3 DAYS UNTIL THE NEW YEAR.

Not only did you take the tax in the previous year, if you held the IBonds until Jan 1st, you get the entire interest for January. Always redeem IBonds on the 1st!

Apples

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10242 on: February 11, 2024, 03:40:09 PM »
I'm sure you guys are on it already, but look into what else the 529 can fund.  Laptop? Study abroad or cool extracurricular trip with a club to a conference or competition?  Travel to and from school?  Kid doesn't have to know you're using 529 funds for those things, but it could make life easier on your wallets the next few years.

pasadenafr

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10243 on: February 11, 2024, 06:29:40 PM »
Just filed my tax return, and I'm getting $5k back. For most people that would be awesome! But all I can think about is WTH?! Where did I screw up when I did the math to update my W4 when I got my bonus?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy I'll get $5k I didn't expect, but I'm also very, very annoyed at myself because that's money that would otherwise have been invested in Sep-Dec 2023.

Also, I sold $20k of IBonds on 12/28 BECAUSE I FORGOT I HAD PLANNED ON WAITING 3 DAYS UNTIL THE NEW YEAR.

Not only did you take the tax in the previous year, if you held the IBonds until Jan 1st, you get the entire interest for January. Always redeem IBonds on the 1st!

I KNOOOOOOW! Don't rub it in 🤦🏻‍♀️

merula

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10244 on: February 12, 2024, 07:30:38 AM »
I'm sure you guys are on it already, but look into what else the 529 can fund.  Laptop? Study abroad or cool extracurricular trip with a club to a conference or competition?  Travel to and from school?  Kid doesn't have to know you're using 529 funds for those things, but it could make life easier on your wallets the next few years.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/qualified-ed-expenses is a great resource. Laptop (or other required computer equipment or software), and study abroad if required by the student's degree program are qualified educational expenses. Extracurriculars and transportation are not. (Note that you can't get a tax credit for expenses paid with 529 money, so you should probably also plan on withdrawing ~$2500 less than the total expenses to really maximize your money.)

BUT you mentioned scholarship bucks. You can withdraw the equivalent amount of the scholarship from the fund and just pay regular income tax on it, no penalty. Personally, I think the Roth IRA rollover is a better option, as is holding onto the money in case the kid goes back for more education or eventually switching the beneficiary to a different family member.


secondcor521

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10245 on: February 12, 2024, 09:56:59 AM »
(Note that you can't get a tax credit for expenses paid with 529 money, so you should probably also plan on withdrawing ~$2500 less than the total expenses to really maximize your money.)

The AOTC limit is $4000 of expenses, which ends up as a $2,500 credit if one can utilize it fully.

It looks to me like the rules now allow you to use 529 expenses for the AOTC expenses - you'd pay ordinary income taxes on the earnings portion because it's a non-qualified withdrawal, but it looks like you'd avoid the 10% penalty.  See item #5 page 53 of https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p970.pdf.

Sugaree

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10246 on: February 12, 2024, 12:40:47 PM »
(Note that you can't get a tax credit for expenses paid with 529 money, so you should probably also plan on withdrawing ~$2500 less than the total expenses to really maximize your money.)

The AOTC limit is $4000 of expenses, which ends up as a $2,500 credit if one can utilize it fully.

It looks to me like the rules now allow you to use 529 expenses for the AOTC expenses - you'd pay ordinary income taxes on the earnings portion because it's a non-qualified withdrawal, but it looks like you'd avoid the 10% penalty.  See item #5 page 53 of https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p970.pdf.

From page 52:  "An American opportunity or lifetime learning credit (education credit) can be claimed in the same year the beneficiary takes a tax-free distribution from a QTP, as long as
the same expenses aren't used for both benefits."  Though I think you're right about paying taxes, but avoiding the penalty.  It seems like the easiest thing to do would be to cashflow the first $4000 and pull the rest from the 529.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 12:43:32 PM by Sugaree »

secondcor521

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10247 on: February 12, 2024, 07:35:13 PM »
(Note that you can't get a tax credit for expenses paid with 529 money, so you should probably also plan on withdrawing ~$2500 less than the total expenses to really maximize your money.)

The AOTC limit is $4000 of expenses, which ends up as a $2,500 credit if one can utilize it fully.

It looks to me like the rules now allow you to use 529 expenses for the AOTC expenses - you'd pay ordinary income taxes on the earnings portion because it's a non-qualified withdrawal, but it looks like you'd avoid the 10% penalty.  See item #5 page 53 of https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p970.pdf.

From page 52:  "An American opportunity or lifetime learning credit (education credit) can be claimed in the same year the beneficiary takes a tax-free distribution from a QTP, as long as
the same expenses aren't used for both benefits."  Though I think you're right about paying taxes, but avoiding the penalty.  It seems like the easiest thing to do would be to cashflow the first $4000 and pull the rest from the 529.

Right - you can't fully double dip (no AOTC and *tax free* 529 w/d), but you can at least sort of now (AOTC with *penalty free* 529 w/d).  The law changed sometime after my kids started college, so I just did things the simple conservative way you suggest - pay first $4K OOP then 529 the rest.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10248 on: February 13, 2024, 02:14:57 PM »
Not my story and not a MPP but its a Canada story and remembering it still brings me giggle fits a couple months later.

A professional I work with was telling this story about how he went to Canada over a weekend. This brought about obligatory "what did you do in Canada?" questions. He said he went there "just to see if he could get in". He proceeded to tell that he went to the border and told the agents exactly that. I started questioning why he would be afraid of getting in, was he a criminal etc. He explained that yes he'd had a road rage conviction from 10+ years ago, some bogus thing where a psycho was trying to run him off the road and they both got cited for it. So he tells the customs people this, they pull him out of line and interrogate him for a couple hours and finally let him in. He then spent 15 mins in Canada, goes back to the US border and they ask him what he was doing in Canada. Same explanation LOL "I was just trying to see if I could get in" which of course prompts a ton of shit on the US side too. So then he says "So I'm good to go for my Canada trip in a few weeks! I just wanted to make a practice run to make sure".... to which I responded that he might still get flagged at the border when he tries to return based off what he told them. I absolutely could not believe he did not attempt to come up with a different reason for going there and straight up said he had a record.

therethere

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #10249 on: February 13, 2024, 02:35:37 PM »
Not my story and not a MPP but its a Canada story and remembering it still brings me giggle fits a couple months later.

A professional I work with was telling this story about how he went to Canada over a weekend. This brought about obligatory "what did you do in Canada?" questions. He said he went there "just to see if he could get in". He proceeded to tell that he went to the border and told the agents exactly that. I started questioning why he would be afraid of getting in, was he a criminal etc. He explained that yes he'd had a road rage conviction from 10+ years ago, some bogus thing where a psycho was trying to run him off the road and they both got cited for it. So he tells the customs people this, they pull him out of line and interrogate him for a couple hours and finally let him in. He then spent 15 mins in Canada, goes back to the US border and they ask him what he was doing in Canada. Same explanation LOL "I was just trying to see if I could get in" which of course prompts a ton of shit on the US side too. So then he says "So I'm good to go for my Canada trip in a few weeks! I just wanted to make a practice run to make sure".... to which I responded that he might still get flagged at the border when he tries to return based off what he told them. I absolutely could not believe he did not attempt to come up with a different reason for going there and straight up said he had a record.

Honestly this makes sense. Canada is pretty strict on certain driving convictions and you can get turned away pretty easily for them. Some convictions (DUI, reckless driving, etc) you need to get a rehabilition letter signed and approved by a certain level of border agent and it needs to be 10 years past the incident date. IIRC you can only get it by attempting to cross. You need this letter on you for any future trips into Canada. So although it sounds crazy, it's a valid reason if he was going with the intent of getting the approved letter for a future trip.