Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)

[Goldielocks]

LOL!   I spent a panicked 20 minutes yesterday double checking all my income amounts (T4's that I finally have) against my RRSP receipts (some of which have not yet arrived) to ensure I am ok.  Yep.. I think I am only $1500 over contributed for last year.


On a previous year, I was required to withdraw $5000.   They will waive the penalty if you have a first offense and rectify it (take it out) as soon as you can.

So over there, the amount of money you can contribute to a tax deferred account is calculated over the year you contribute in? That sounds very complicated! In my country, the amount of money you can contribute is calculated using last years' numbers, i.e. to know how much I can contribute in 2018, I look at the income in my 2017 tax return, so you always know exactly how much you can contribute in advance.

No, it's the same. 

It's that on the T4 for the whole year, I can better see exactly how much was my mandatory contribution to the pension fund.  On another T4, I needed to verify the RRSP automatic matching contribution amounts.  I have three T4's this year, so the income varies, as well as the matching / pension amounts.

The amount able to contribute uses last year's amount, (like you) I just needed to determine how much I have contributed, to determine how much I can lump sum to max it out.   

I always get confused about the employer portion of the RRSP match -- I don't get a tax receipt for it, but it DOES go against my maximum calculation, correct?  I know that I get a Pension Adjustment (against next year), so it seems fair that there would be RRSP reduction for the employer match portion too, right?   What tax slip is that reported on? Does it only apply to the next year available amount, or to this year's contribution?

ETA:  Box 40 on the T4 slip shows the combined employee / employer match RRSP contributions, but the RRSP tax slip will only show the employee portion (because the employer matched portion is untaxed at time of contribution).

[Imma]

Thanks for the explanation all of you :) I'll admit I'm a tax geek. Differences between taxation systems are very interesting to me (and sometimes drive me insane at work!).

[nnls]

I negotiated a $5k per year pay rise end of last year which went into effect 1st January. So updated my automatic bank transfers into investment accounts and paying extra on to my mortgage

I assumed when I did this that I would not be eligible for a pay rise in March (when out company does annual pay rises) normally if you have started a new position or got a pay rise within the last 4 months you arent eligible for one in March.

But i have just discovered I will be getting an extra $12k per year from this months pay,so now I need to change everything again. 

[nnls]

@nnls that's the Mustachiest problem I've ever heard! Stay strong, you'll get that extra money allocated somehow. Don't forget to fret endlessly over whether it's better to invest the money or put it towards your mortgage!

will be stressing about it for ages, pay off debt or accumulate shares?!?

[Step37]

Today’s MPP is that I made an error depositing cheques through my bank’s app. I had a $1000 and a $150 cheque to deposit, but keyed in $1000 when I took a picture of the $150 cheque. It’s going to take a couple of days for the bank to error correct this (I notified them of my mistake right away), so my balance is inaccurate in the meantime. It’s bothering me.

[HappierAtHome]

I negotiated a $5k per year pay rise end of last year which went into effect 1st January. So updated my automatic bank transfers into investment accounts and paying extra on to my mortgage

I assumed when I did this that I would not be eligible for a pay rise in March (when out company does annual pay rises) normally if you have started a new position or got a pay rise within the last 4 months you arent eligible for one in March.

But i have just discovered I will be getting an extra $12k per year from this months pay,so now I need to change everything again.

Congratulations on your problem :D

[nnls]

I negotiated a $5k per year pay rise end of last year which went into effect 1st January. So updated my automatic bank transfers into investment accounts and paying extra on to my mortgage

I assumed when I did this that I would not be eligible for a pay rise in March (when out company does annual pay rises) normally if you have started a new position or got a pay rise within the last 4 months you arent eligible for one in March.

But i have just discovered I will be getting an extra $12k per year from this months pay,so now I need to change everything again.

Congratulations on your problem :D

thank you! but now do I use this pay rise for superannuation, mortgage pay off or shares outside of super?

or be totally unmustachian and put some more towards holiday savings?

[HappierAtHome]

I negotiated a $5k per year pay rise end of last year which went into effect 1st January. So updated my automatic bank transfers into investment accounts and paying extra on to my mortgage

I assumed when I did this that I would not be eligible for a pay rise in March (when out company does annual pay rises) normally if you have started a new position or got a pay rise within the last 4 months you arent eligible for one in March.

But i have just discovered I will be getting an extra $12k per year from this months pay,so now I need to change everything again.

Congratulations on your problem :D

thank you! but now do I use this pay rise for superannuation, mortgage pay off or shares outside of super?

or be totally unmustachian and put some more towards holiday savings?

Assuming you mean mortgage offset... Mortgage offset and holidays would be my vote. I'm a terrible mustachian :-P

[nnls]

I negotiated a $5k per year pay rise end of last year which went into effect 1st January. So updated my automatic bank transfers into investment accounts and paying extra on to my mortgage

I assumed when I did this that I would not be eligible for a pay rise in March (when out company does annual pay rises) normally if you have started a new position or got a pay rise within the last 4 months you arent eligible for one in March.

But i have just discovered I will be getting an extra $12k per year from this months pay,so now I need to change everything again.

Congratulations on your problem :D

thank you! but now do I use this pay rise for superannuation, mortgage pay off or shares outside of super?

or be totally unmustachian and put some more towards holiday savings?

Assuming you mean mortgage offset... Mortgage offset and holidays would be my vote. I'm a terrible mustachian :-P

I mean straight onto mortgage not into offset, I pay extra on top of using my offset

[Luckyvik]

I negotiated a $5k per year pay rise end of last year which went into effect 1st January. So updated my automatic bank transfers into investment accounts and paying extra on to my mortgage

I assumed when I did this that I would not be eligible for a pay rise in March (when out company does annual pay rises) normally if you have started a new position or got a pay rise within the last 4 months you arent eligible for one in March.

But i have just discovered I will be getting an extra $12k per year from this months pay,so now I need to change everything again.

Congratulations on your problem :D

thank you! but now do I use this pay rise for superannuation, mortgage pay off or shares outside of super?

or be totally unmustachian and put some more towards holiday savings?

Assuming you mean mortgage offset... Mortgage offset and holidays would be my vote. I'm a terrible mustachian :-P

I mean straight onto mortgage not into offset, I pay extra on top of using my offset

Congratulations on the payrises! Don’t forget to keep an eye on the $25k concessional contribution cap!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Penn42]

Today’s MPP is that I made an error depositing cheques through my bank’s app. I had a $1000 and a $150 cheque to deposit, but keyed in $1000 when I took a picture of the $150 cheque. It’s going to take a couple of days for the bank to error correct this (I notified them of my mistake right away), so my balance is inaccurate in the meantime. It’s bothering me.

I hate this!  I accidentally transferred my last paycheck to another bank and not to Vanguard like I meant to.  So I'd have to wait till that comes through to then send it to Vanguard.  But I didn't want to wait so I took a chunk out of my FU fund and sent it to Vanguard which'll just get replaced once the first messed up transfer comes through.  In the mean time my FU fund looks small and it's driving me nuts.

I know, I know, should have it on auto... I kinda like doing it manually for now.  Only a few more checks to deposit before my IRA is maxed anyway and then I'll up my payroll deduction for my 401k.

[LennStar]

Today’s MPP is that I made an error depositing cheques through my bank’s app. I had a $1000 and a $150 cheque to deposit, but keyed in $1000 when I took a picture of the $150 cheque. It’s going to take a couple of days for the bank to error correct this (I notified them of my mistake right away), so my balance is inaccurate in the meantime. It’s bothering me.

I hate this!  I accidentally transferred my last paycheck to another bank and not to Vanguard like I meant to.  So I'd have to wait till that comes through to then send it to Vanguard.  But I didn't want to wait so I took a chunk out of my FU fund and sent it to Vanguard which'll just get replaced once the first messed up transfer comes through.  In the mean time my FU fund looks small and it's driving me nuts.

I know, I know, should have it on auto... I kinda like doing it manually for now.  Only a few more checks to deposit before my IRA is maxed anyway and then I'll up my payroll deduction for my 401k.

As always I am astonished by the fact that The Greatest Nation on Earth (ahem) still uses cheques.
But I am even more intrigued by the fact that you make extremely easy to fake digital pictures of them to send them over the easily sniffable internet to make money transfers. It is a real marvel of stupid inefficiency.

Tell me, do the banks print them out and file them so they have a proof in case of?

[Linea_Norway]

We have a mountain cabin in a very small village. The shop has been closed for some years. Now, some people will start up a new shop by buying the shop building and renting it out. They have found a motivated person to drive the shop. Now they need capital to invest into the building. The cabin owners and many others have been asked to invest money in the project. The project is not supposed to make profit. We also think the building might not be sold later. Therefore we think the "investment" should be regarded as charity. We have decided to give the sum we want to give in charity to the project. We hope to see the shop open in the future and will purchase our food there whenever we visit.

[dragoncar]

Today’s MPP is that I made an error depositing cheques through my bank’s app. I had a $1000 and a $150 cheque to deposit, but keyed in $1000 when I took a picture of the $150 cheque. It’s going to take a couple of days for the bank to error correct this (I notified them of my mistake right away), so my balance is inaccurate in the meantime. It’s bothering me.

I hate this!  I accidentally transferred my last paycheck to another bank and not to Vanguard like I meant to.  So I'd have to wait till that comes through to then send it to Vanguard.  But I didn't want to wait so I took a chunk out of my FU fund and sent it to Vanguard which'll just get replaced once the first messed up transfer comes through.  In the mean time my FU fund looks small and it's driving me nuts.

I know, I know, should have it on auto... I kinda like doing it manually for now.  Only a few more checks to deposit before my IRA is maxed anyway and then I'll up my payroll deduction for my 401k.

As always I am astonished by the fact that The Greatest Nation on Earth (ahem) still uses cheques.
But I am even more intrigued by the fact that you make extremely easy to fake digital pictures of them to send them over the easily sniffable internet to make money transfers. It is a real marvel of stupid inefficiency.

Tell me, do the banks print them out and file them so they have a proof in case of?

Uh, it’s encrypted.  But I agree, it would be much easier to just tell your bank “transfer $x to this account.”  I once had a credit union with that functionality and it was great for splitting bills with coworkers and such.

[Step37]

Today’s MPP is that I made an error depositing cheques through my bank’s app. I had a $1000 and a $150 cheque to deposit, but keyed in $1000 when I took a picture of the $150 cheque. It’s going to take a couple of days for the bank to error correct this (I notified them of my mistake right away), so my balance is inaccurate in the meantime. It’s bothering me.

I hate this!  I accidentally transferred my last paycheck to another bank and not to Vanguard like I meant to.  So I'd have to wait till that comes through to then send it to Vanguard.  But I didn't want to wait so I took a chunk out of my FU fund and sent it to Vanguard which'll just get replaced once the first messed up transfer comes through.  In the mean time my FU fund looks small and it's driving me nuts.

I know, I know, should have it on auto... I kinda like doing it manually for now.  Only a few more checks to deposit before my IRA is maxed anyway and then I'll up my payroll deduction for my 401k.

As always I am astonished by the fact that The Greatest Nation on Earth (ahem) still uses cheques.
But I am even more intrigued by the fact that you make extremely easy to fake digital pictures of them to send them over the easily sniffable internet to make money transfers. It is a real marvel of stupid inefficiency.

Tell me, do the banks print them out and file them so they have a proof in case of?

I agree with you that cheques should really no longer even exist. However, since businesses and individuals continue to use them, I’m happy to have the very convenient option of depositing through the app when I get them (regularly). The system is ripe for fraud, though, so much so that at least one of the big banks in Canada does not offer this option. Apparently, there are people who will deposit the same cheque to multiple accounts at different banks.

And (now) I happen to know (because I sign on the account that the “mistaken amount” cheque was drawn on) that the cheque will clear for the amount that is typed in!!! This is a terrible loophole. I don’t think this is the case with every bank, because I’ve transposed numbers and had the app say, “you typed 95.50 but we see 59.50” and it gives the option to correct or leave it. But yeah, I can now see why some banks are avoiding this technology. Yikes.

[Goldielocks]

RE: Cheques in Canada.

The mobile deposit ap - the banks don't see this any differently than giving you access to your overdraft protection monies upon request.      You send in the photo of the cheque and when / if it clears, you are off the hook for repaying that amount back to the bank.   If it does not fully clear, then the account owner (not the person who wrote the bad cheque) pays the bank back.

That is why the banks pretty much force everyone to get overdraft on their accounts.... so that they can reverse charges even 45 days later, if there is a problem with a deposited cheque.   If you don't cover the amount with cash, they charge you the NSF and overdraft fees.

[Shamantha]

I can't get my income tax to be calculated correctly in advance. I either get way too much as a monthly return, or get an amount back once a year, despite the fact that I should be able to end up with 0, they keep changing the amounts.  Due to me paying off my mortgage this amount is getting smaller each year though. After two years of trying to finetune it (and end up with a 0 balance) I have now given up and settle for the annual return, as it is less hassle. The mustachian in me tells me to go for the double monthly return and save/invest, and pay back at the end of the year. The non-logical mustachian in me gets very upset about paying back such an amount. Most friends are happy that they get a very high amount back, as they see it as free money.

[Spruit]

I have a similar issue with the energy companies. Apparently my "standard usage" is way higher than what I actually use, resulting in me getting back multple hundreds of euros once a year. Every year I try to get them to lower the prepayment and every year they urge me to go for a higher one so that I'm "safe". Apparently it doesn't matter I have been "safe" for year after year.

[Shamantha]

Very recognisable Spruit. Nowadays I just reset it to my preferred amount online after they adjust it as part of the annual reconciliation.

[Urchina]

With 3/4 of us packing lunches daily in reusable containers, we're running out of dishwasher space. If DH joins in the party on any given day, we're sunk and have to (gasp!) resort to handwashing dishes.

Also: because I batch cook and use that as meal prep for the week, our fridge is PACKED on Monday. Like, Tokyo subway during rush hour packed.

[shelivesthedream]

I have a similar issue with the energy companies. Apparently my "standard usage" is way higher than what I actually use, resulting in me getting back multple hundreds of euros once a year. Every year I try to get them to lower the prepayment and every year they urge me to go for a higher one so that I'm "safe". Apparently it doesn't matter I have been "safe" for year after year.

Yep - mine is inching down every time they do a six month review but they're not keen to take it down more than a couple of quid each time. I've just switched companies, though, so may have to start all over again...

[LennStar]

I have a similar issue with the energy companies. Apparently my "standard usage" is way higher than what I actually use, resulting in me getting back multple hundreds of euros once a year. Every year I try to get them to lower the prepayment and every year they urge me to go for a higher one so that I'm "safe". Apparently it doesn't matter I have been "safe" for year after year.

Having your money means they have to take less credits. Less costs, more money for CEO bonuses ;)

[Imma]

I have a similar issue with the energy companies. Apparently my "standard usage" is way higher than what I actually use, resulting in me getting back multple hundreds of euros once a year. Every year I try to get them to lower the prepayment and every year they urge me to go for a higher one so that I'm "safe". Apparently it doesn't matter I have been "safe" for year after year.

We switched to Vandebron a while back and they were the first company that actually offered to lower our monthly prepayment! We used to pay €85, now we pay €70 and I think that's still too much. I'm still waiting for the day they ring they visit us unannounced to check if we haven't manipulated the energy meter.

[Spruit]

Actually, I'm with the same provider! And the re-set my prepayment to 105 (after paying 85 at the previous one, AND getting money back). So, ??? I'm not sure what happened there. I thought it was maybe the energy tax that has gone up, but apparently not so much?
Anyway, I'll either get money back again or I was "lucky" last three years. Can live with both outcomes.

[Bracken_Joy]

With 3/4 of us packing lunches daily in reusable containers, we're running out of dishwasher space. If DH joins in the party on any given day, we're sunk and have to (gasp!) resort to handwashing dishes.

Also: because I batch cook and use that as meal prep for the week, our fridge is PACKED on Monday. Like, Tokyo subway during rush hour packed.

YES. This is my husband and I. The weeks where he travels 3 or 4 days instead of just 2, we actually have been running out of our glass tupperwares!

[gaja]

I paid for two (expensive) plane tickets with a credit card last month. The other person paid me back after a few days, and I put that money into the savings account, ending up with a very good savings rate for the month. I also got all the airline miles. Now I've received the credit card bill, and have enough income to cash flow the bill. But that means I will put less into the savings account this month than I normally do.

It just feels wrong.

[BDWW]

My credit score dropped 36(817-781) points this month because I put a large purchase on one of my cards.
The balance will of course be paid off next month, and I really don't have much use for a credit score at this time. But it feels a little funny watching it dive like that due to card utilization.

[zolotiyeruki]

My credit score dropped 36(817-781) points this month because I put a large purchase on one of my cards.
The balance will of course be paid off next month, and I really don't have much use for a credit score at this time. But it feels a little funny watching it dive like that due to card utilization.

What do you use to monitor your credit score?

[HappierAtHome]

Because I'm not shopping on my phone or looking at consumer sites, the ads I get are bizarrely irrelevant to me. Right now I get a lot of slightly dodgy looking dating site ads :-P

[BDWW]

My credit score dropped 36(817-781) points this month because I put a large purchase on one of my cards.
The balance will of course be paid off next month, and I really don't have much use for a credit score at this time. But it feels a little funny watching it dive like that due to card utilization.

What do you use to monitor your credit score?

Mint, but it's (Transunion score I believe) is included in most Intuit services.

[dragoncar]

I have a similar issue with the energy companies. Apparently my "standard usage" is way higher than what I actually use, resulting in me getting back multple hundreds of euros once a year. Every year I try to get them to lower the prepayment and every year they urge me to go for a higher one so that I'm "safe". Apparently it doesn't matter I have been "safe" for year after year.

Yep - mine is inching down every time they do a six month review but they're not keen to take it down more than a couple of quid each time. I've just switched companies, though, so may have to start all over again...

So they only check the meter once a year there?  We have smart meters, which despite conspiracy ramblings are pretty sweet since you can view hourly usage online. 

[Imma]

I have a similar issue with the energy companies. Apparently my "standard usage" is way higher than what I actually use, resulting in me getting back multple hundreds of euros once a year. Every year I try to get them to lower the prepayment and every year they urge me to go for a higher one so that I'm "safe". Apparently it doesn't matter I have been "safe" for year after year.

Yep - mine is inching down every time they do a six month review but they're not keen to take it down more than a couple of quid each time. I've just switched companies, though, so may have to start all over again...

So they only check the meter once a year there?  We have smart meters, which despite conspiracy ramblings are pretty sweet since you can view hourly usage online.

They are replacing old meters for smart meters in here, but we don't have one yet. We submit a meter reading online every year and they only send someone over if they're suspicious.

There are other arguments against smart meters than just 'big brother is watching you' conspiracy theories though. If you have solar panels and supply back to the grid, an oldfashioned meter runs backwards. That means no one can trace how much energy you've used and how much you've supplied back. A smart meter registers this separately. Many people are concerned that in a few years, they will get paid a lot less for electricity supplied back to the grid, which is why they refuse to get a smart meter now. 

(just read back what I posted yesterday. Note to self: do not attempt to write anything in a foreign language when you're ready for bed :)  )

[LennStar]

'big brother is watching you' conspiracy theories

As someone born in Eastern Germany I feel unjustly judged here.

I mean you US guys find it okay that tens of thousands get injured and hundreds die every year because of your "2nd amendmend right" which very likely was not meant in the way the NRA says and even if is totally outdated.
So please let have my basic right of not getting spied on what I do, what I read, what I watch etc.

[shelivesthedream]

I have a similar issue with the energy companies. Apparently my "standard usage" is way higher than what I actually use, resulting in me getting back multple hundreds of euros once a year. Every year I try to get them to lower the prepayment and every year they urge me to go for a higher one so that I'm "safe". Apparently it doesn't matter I have been "safe" for year after year.

Yep - mine is inching down every time they do a six month review but they're not keen to take it down more than a couple of quid each time. I've just switched companies, though, so may have to start all over again...

So they only check the meter once a year there?  We have smart meters, which despite conspiracy ramblings are pretty sweet since you can view hourly usage online.

The UK is in the middle of an appallingly-managed, treacle-in-freezing-temperatures slow smartmeter rollout. I had been harrassing my energy company about getting one every time they asked for a meter reading. However, my new energy company says that they are waiting for second-generation smartmeters to arrive in the middle of this year and will then start installing them, and I bloody well intend to be at the front of the queue. Apparently the first generation meters are tied to the electricity company that installs them, and it's very difficult to get a smooth switch. The second generation should solve this problem.

[Imma]

'big brother is watching you' conspiracy theories

As someone born in Eastern Germany I feel unjustly judged here.

I mean you US guys find it okay that tens of thousands get injured and hundreds die every year because of your "2nd amendmend right" which very likely was not meant in the way the NRA says and even if is totally outdated.
So please let have my basic right of not getting spied on what I do, what I read, what I watch etc.

I'm sorry if I insulted you in any way, that was not my intention. I'm not sure what the second amendmend has to do with anything (and I'm not American) and I certainly didn't say everyone should be forced to have a smart meter - quite the opposite actually.

I do think government surveillance is something that is real, even though most people are not aware of it, but I don't think installing smart meters will provide the authorities with information they could not otherwise get.

[Linea_Norway]

We have a smart meter at home and at our cabin. It is very convenient to not have to read the meter. The meters report by themselves every week or so at the moment, but they can also switch to several times a day.

Yes, the government/energy company can check my electricity use at any moment. I personally am more concerned about the fact that some instances can read off my data traffic.

[alewpanda]

With 3/4 of us packing lunches daily in reusable containers, we're running out of dishwasher space. If DH joins in the party on any given day, we're sunk and have to (gasp!) resort to handwashing dishes.

Also: because I batch cook and use that as meal prep for the week, our fridge is PACKED on Monday. Like, Tokyo subway during rush hour packed.

I can relate!  Only its just the two of us, and with our small (and shrinking in a couple months) kitchen storage space, meal prepping is a careful balance of *when I have time* and *how many containers/jars do I have and can fit in the fridge at once*.  One of the things I'm looking forward to when DH starts working from home in May is not having to use as many containers for his meals -- he can just scoop what he wants each day from the pan....or make his own...lol.

[Dollar Slice]

I keep getting this marketing e-mail entitled something like "Coffee for the week is on me!" trying to get me to do some paid phone survey related to my job. I don't drink coffee, but even if I did, we're talking maybe $2 for a week's worth of coffee, and I'm not about to take a phone survey at work for $2. I roll my eyes and delete. But I keep getting it week after week, so I looked at it (just because I'm feeling bored) and it's $25, which they are apparently assuming people spend on coffee weekly.

I still won't touch it because it's UCE, but $25 would have gotten me to open it a lot sooner than thinking it was $2 :-P

[By the River]

I keep getting this marketing e-mail entitled something like "Coffee for the week is on me!" trying to get me to do some paid phone survey related to my job. I don't drink coffee, but even if I did, we're talking maybe $2 for a week's worth of coffee, and I'm not about to take a phone survey at work for $2. I roll my eyes and delete. But I keep getting it week after week, so I looked at it (just because I'm feeling bored) and it's $25, which they are apparently assuming people spend on coffee weekly.

I still won't touch it because it's UCE, but $25 would have gotten me to open it a lot sooner than thinking it was $2 :-P

Thanks, you reminded me that I had taken a survey (on January 18) for a group that I am a member of and received a $5 starbucks reward.  I just found the email and printed the reward, but never go to Starbucks so will have to make a special trip one day.

[rdaneel0]

I had a funny one today. I got invited to a clothing swap where a bunch of women were going to bring their old clothes they didn't want as well as their husband's and all swap. I told my friend I didn't have anything to bring because we wear all of our clothes, and her mind was blown. She has a massive closet full of stuff so I assume she just can't imagine only having a small selection of clothing.

[Step37]

I had a funny one today. I got invited to a clothing swap where a bunch of women were going to bring their old clothes they didn't want as well as their husband's and all swap. I told my friend I didn't have anything to bring because we wear all of our clothes, and her mind was blown. She has a massive closet full of stuff so I assume she just can't imagine only having a small selection of clothing.

This is what I aspire to (a reasonable amount of clothing that’s used regularly); maybe I could go to a clothing swap and just . . . Not swap! I’m trying to wear things out as I can, but there is just way too much. Have started year four of no shopping, which helps. Can’t wrap my mind around dumping at Goodwill, but a one-way swap would be perfect! I like to know where things go and that they will be used and appreciated. I’m aware this a bit nutty.

[barbaz]

I do think government surveillance is something that is real, even though most people are not aware of it, but I don't think installing smart meters will provide the authorities with information they could not otherwise get.

Just to provide some context: in eastern Germany it was illegal to watch west German television. So if you watched “West tv” you had to keep the tv on for a while after the show ended to obfuscate your viewing habits. With a smart meter, you can actually deduct from changes in energy usage which channel someone was watching. Many countries have political tv channels or shows, thus by obtaining smart meter data you can learn things about someone’s political orientation that they might not want you to know. And it’s not just about the government. Smart meter data will be hacked and leaked eventually.

[Imma]

I do think government surveillance is something that is real, even though most people are not aware of it, but I don't think installing smart meters will provide the authorities with information they could not otherwise get.

Just to provide some context: in eastern Germany it was illegal to watch west German television. So if you watched “West tv” you had to keep the tv on for a while after the show ended to obfuscate your viewing habits. With a smart meter, you can actually deduct from changes in energy usage which channel someone was watching. Many countries have political tv channels or shows, thus by obtaining smart meter data you can learn things about someone’s political orientation that they might not want you to know. And it’s not just about the government. Smart meter data will be hacked and leaked eventually.

I did not deny that at all, on the contrary, I said, government surveillance is real. What I said is that I don't think smart meters give the authorities access to information they could not otherwise get. The power company can already reliably measure how much electricity you use, they do not need a smart meter for that (this is how they catch frauds, the meter readings you fill in are just a double check).
If they want to know your TV viewing history, they can simply request this data from your television provider. If they want to know your political ideology, they call your internet provider. Nearly every part of our lives is monitored and authorities legally have access to almost all this data.

[dragoncar]

I do think government surveillance is something that is real, even though most people are not aware of it, but I don't think installing smart meters will provide the authorities with information they could not otherwise get.

Just to provide some context: in eastern Germany it was illegal to watch west German television. So if you watched “West tv” you had to keep the tv on for a while after the show ended to obfuscate your viewing habits. With a smart meter, you can actually deduct from changes in energy usage which channel someone was watching. Many countries have political tv channels or shows, thus by obtaining smart meter data you can learn things about someone’s political orientation that they might not want you to know. And it’s not just about the government. Smart meter data will be hacked and leaked eventually.

I did not deny that at all, on the contrary, I said, government surveillance is real. What I said is that I don't think smart meters give the authorities access to information they could not otherwise get. The power company can already reliably measure how much electricity you use, they do not need a smart meter for that (this is how they catch frauds, the meter readings you fill in are just a double check).
If they want to know your TV viewing history, they can simply request this data from your television provider. If they want to know your political ideology, they call your internet provider. Nearly every part of our lives is monitored and authorities legally have access to almost all this data.

Sure, surveillance is real.  The conspiracy rantings I was referencing was more like "these wireless smartmeters are a government plot to give us cancer," which I've actually read someone complain about. 

But even on the surveillance front, the meters are a drop in the bucket.  Do you have a cell phone or any internet connected devices, any with microphones?  Then you are already subject to far more potential scrutiny than a smart meter.  These things are part of our daily lives so what we really have to do is make sure the constitution is followed by government agencies.  If I am a murder suspect, they can get a warrant and track my phones location history.  But I agree that mass automated surveillance is extremely problematic

But why do you have to fill out the meter readings annually?  Why not just report it monthly online?  Are the meters extremely inaccessible?  I walk by mine every day so NBD, but I prefer to have the electronic meter since it means one less creepy guy snooping around my azaleas

[BDWW]

I do think government surveillance is something that is real, even though most people are not aware of it, but I don't think installing smart meters will provide the authorities with information they could not otherwise get.

Just to provide some context: in eastern Germany it was illegal to watch west German television. So if you watched “West tv” you had to keep the tv on for a while after the show ended to obfuscate your viewing habits. With a smart meter, you can actually deduct from changes in energy usage which channel someone was watching. Many countries have political tv channels or shows, thus by obtaining smart meter data you can learn things about someone’s political orientation that they might not want you to know. And it’s not just about the government. Smart meter data will be hacked and leaked eventually.

I did not deny that at all, on the contrary, I said, government surveillance is real. What I said is that I don't think smart meters give the authorities access to information they could not otherwise get. The power company can already reliably measure how much electricity you use, they do not need a smart meter for that (this is how they catch frauds, the meter readings you fill in are just a double check).
If they want to know your TV viewing history, they can simply request this data from your television provider. If they want to know your political ideology, they call your internet provider. Nearly every part of our lives is monitored and authorities legally have access to almost all this data.

Sure, surveillance is real.  The conspiracy rantings I was referencing was more like "these wireless smartmeters are a government plot to give us cancer," which I've actually read someone complain about. 

But even on the surveillance front, the meters are a drop in the bucket.  Do you have a cell phone or any internet connected devices, any with microphones?  Then you are already subject to far more potential scrutiny than a smart meter.  These things are part of our daily lives so what we really have to do is make sure the constitution is followed by government agencies.  If I am a murder suspect, they can get a warrant and track my phones location history.  But I agree that mass automated surveillance is extremely problematic

But why do you have to fill out the meter readings annually?  Why not just report it monthly online?  Are the meters extremely inaccessible?  I walk by mine every day so NBD, but I prefer to have the electronic meter since it means one less creepy guy snooping around my azaleas

Have you actually witnessed a person physically reading your meter? I'm just curious because for the past decade at least most meters have wireless communication. It's not an internet based thing, but a localized simple wireless system. The power company then just drives a van around the neighborhood, and reads the meters from the street. With the right equipment anyone can drive by and get a reading.

Of course a short-range snapshot reading is a bit different than real-time monitoring.

[shelivesthedream]

Reading my meters is a PITA. The electricity one is at the back of the cupboard under my stairs so I have to take everything out first and crawl inside to peer into the darkness. The gas one is outside the front door and has colossal spiders living in it. So big, I don't even know how they get in. I am happy for the government to have yet another way to know what TV channels I am watching (or, er, would watch if we had a TV) to never have to deal with meter reading again.

The government could learn a lot about me from my library records (hm... very interested in radical left-wing politics, WW2 and gardening...) but that doesn't stop me taking out all sorts of suspicious books (Russian spies? Inter-war domestic history? Agatha Christie novels? Clearly a threat to national security!)

[Imma]

I do think government surveillance is something that is real, even though most people are not aware of it, but I don't think installing smart meters will provide the authorities with information they could not otherwise get.

Just to provide some context: in eastern Germany it was illegal to watch west German television. So if you watched “West tv” you had to keep the tv on for a while after the show ended to obfuscate your viewing habits. With a smart meter, you can actually deduct from changes in energy usage which channel someone was watching. Many countries have political tv channels or shows, thus by obtaining smart meter data you can learn things about someone’s political orientation that they might not want you to know. And it’s not just about the government. Smart meter data will be hacked and leaked eventually.

I did not deny that at all, on the contrary, I said, government surveillance is real. What I said is that I don't think smart meters give the authorities access to information they could not otherwise get. The power company can already reliably measure how much electricity you use, they do not need a smart meter for that (this is how they catch frauds, the meter readings you fill in are just a double check).
If they want to know your TV viewing history, they can simply request this data from your television provider. If they want to know your political ideology, they call your internet provider. Nearly every part of our lives is monitored and authorities legally have access to almost all this data.

Sure, surveillance is real.  The conspiracy rantings I was referencing was more like "these wireless smartmeters are a government plot to give us cancer," which I've actually read someone complain about. 

But even on the surveillance front, the meters are a drop in the bucket.  Do you have a cell phone or any internet connected devices, any with microphones?  Then you are already subject to far more potential scrutiny than a smart meter.  These things are part of our daily lives so what we really have to do is make sure the constitution is followed by government agencies.  If I am a murder suspect, they can get a warrant and track my phones location history.  But I agree that mass automated surveillance is extremely problematic

But why do you have to fill out the meter readings annually?  Why not just report it monthly online?  Are the meters extremely inaccessible?  I walk by mine every day so NBD, but I prefer to have the electronic meter since it means one less creepy guy snooping around my azaleas

Have you actually witnessed a person physically reading your meter? I'm just curious because for the past decade at least most meters have wireless communication. It's not an internet based thing, but a localized simple wireless system. The power company then just drives a van around the neighborhood, and reads the meters from the street. With the right equipment anyone can drive by and get a reading.

Of course a short-range snapshot reading is a bit different than real-time monitoring.

We never get physical meter readings in here (afak) you just report your meter readings once a year. I guess they only visit you when they're suspicious.

My meter is also buried deep in the cupboard under the stairs and I'm fairly sure it's not possible to read them from the street (my meter looks like it has been there for half a century or so ) but even with a modern meter, it would be illegal even if technically possible. Even if you have a smart meter connected to the internet, the power company can only read the meter once every two months. I think you can disconnect them from the internet if you're afraid they're going to read them more often.

[Rural]

We have a smart electrical meter now (they'd need a gate code I don't intend to give out, plus 4WD and good boots, to get to ours anyway), but until we wired the new house in ~2014, we had a meter reader physically walk up to ours (on a house trailer down by the public road) once a month.


Our water is still read manually every month, but the meter is right by the street, in a buried enclosure. Means we're billed for the water for any leak over the slightly over a quarter mile between the house and the road, so I try to check in the enclosure to be sure the (mechanial) meter wheel isn't spinning every now and again when I'm leaving and know we don't have any water running on purpose.

[Bicycle_B]

They make you read your own meter?

My MPP is that the lazy American system has never required me to do that, thus depriving me of a monthly challenge that would make stronger.  Alas, for many years a creepy dude did indeed stride up to the meter on the outside of my home and take a reading. 

Recently this stopped.  Apparently my meter has become smart, but I didn't notice.  Obviously the lack of challenge has reduced my attentiveness. my low-information diet is working!

[dragoncar]

They make you read your own meter?

My MPP is that the lazy American system has never required me to do that, thus depriving me of a monthly challenge that would make stronger.  Alas, for many years a creepy dude did indeed stride up to the meter on the outside of my home and take a reading. 

Recently this stopped.  Apparently my meter has become smart, but I didn't notice.  Obviously the lack of challenge has reduced my attentiveness. my low-information diet is working!

Wow hey replaced your meter without telling you?  That usually will interrupt your service

And yes I have witnessed electric and water meter readers walking around my home.  In one place the electric meter was in an outdoor closet.  Much better wireless and I can check my usage and such online.  Doing so actually helped me realize my gas meter was malfunctioning when I suddenly used 17 therms in one day (allegedly)