Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)

[TrMama]

Good call, TrMama.  Thank you for the update.

"Since we're in BC there is only one car insurer..."
In New York State, where there are possibly dozens of auto insurers (maybe?  a lot, at least), this amazes me.

This is specific to BC in Canada, and doesn't exist in any form in any US state. It's a little analogous to the states where the state controls the Workers Comp market entirely (ND, OH, WA, WY), as opposed to NY where dozens of carriers write WC, but there's also the State Fund.

This is the same in multiple provinces, here is SK my insurance (comes standard as part of renewing your license plate) was $1200/year for my car, and this is after a 20% discount for good driving. DW's old vehicle, a 2004 2 door manual honda civic was $1300/yr, this is because a 2 door standard in classified as a sports car.... It's doesn't make a lot of sense and makes owning vehicles very expensive here.

On the plus side though, it seems to make it more difficult for egregious personal injury lawsuits to gain any traction. Since ICBC (the BC auto insurance company) is the only one that can sell liability insurance here, they always represent both sides and it's difficult for people who don't have a demonstrable problem to get any kind of payout.

I know there are a lot of complaints about single insurer provinces/states. But they are fantastic at limiting liability and therefore protecting our stash.

[StartingEarly]

I want to buy a first generation Honda Insight, but I can't justify the cost of a second vehicle with fuel savings. Guess I will have to buy it anyways and feel guilty about spending a few thousand on a toy that at best will come out as a wash lol

[Playing with Fire UK]

...
Joke's on them. I FIRE'd in June.  I like to think I'm the one person who broke the system.

Congratulations Jakejake!

[Hadilly]

I have way too much uninvested money sitting in a vanguard money market account that I need to get into the market.

[aetherie]

I want to buy a first generation Honda Insight, but I can't justify the cost of a second vehicle with fuel savings. Guess I will have to buy it anyways and feel guilty about spending a few thousand on a toy that at best will come out as a wash lol

Do it! I <3 my 1st gen Insight. Best car ever, even if it sometimes has trouble getting up hills.

[theadvicist]

  LOL you know you're mustachian when your out of control spending is 21K/yr.

Love this!

I ran a year end report that showed our total spending as £80,000!!! Now, we've done some work on our house this year but I nearly fell off my chair (genuinely!).

When I drilled down I saw £55k was to our mortgage. Phew.

[johnny847]

Usually credit card companies distinguish between cards using the last four or five digits.  "The AMEX ending in 12345", for example.

I do credit card offers.  So many that I, by chance, have two AMEX cards with the same ending five digits.  This causes confusion when I try to talk to AMEX about the newer card.

In other news, my Lexus with 145K miles is too old for Uber.

This actually isn't all that uncommon for people with mutliple first party Amex cards. From reddit.

Their format: ABBC

A: This starts at 1 and gets incremented by one if you get a replacement because of loss or theft or whatever.

BB: This tells whether it's an AU card or primary. The primary card is 00, first AU is 01, and so on.

C: This is the checksum and is mathematically generated from the other 14 digits.

[dragoncar]

Usually credit card companies distinguish between cards using the last four or five digits.  "The AMEX ending in 12345", for example.

I do credit card offers.  So many that I, by chance, have two AMEX cards with the same ending five digits.  This causes confusion when I try to talk to AMEX about the newer card.

In other news, my Lexus with 145K miles is too old for Uber.

This actually isn't all that uncommon for people with mutliple first party Amex cards. From reddit.

Their format: ABBC

A: This starts at 1 and gets incremented by one if you get a replacement because of loss or theft or whatever.

BB: This tells whether it's an AU card or primary. The primary card is 00, first AU is 01, and so on.

C: This is the checksum and is mathematically generated from the other 14 digits.

So they expect people to have no more than 10 accounts, but a hundred AUs on each account?  Sounds backwards.

[Playing with Fire UK]

This actually isn't all that uncommon for people with mutliple first party Amex cards. From reddit.

Their format: ABBC

A: This starts at 1 and gets incremented by one if you get a replacement because of loss or theft or whatever.

BB: This tells whether it's an AU card or primary. The primary card is 00, first AU is 01, and so on.

C: This is the checksum and is mathematically generated from the other 14 digits.

All of my first cards on a new Amex account have ended in 000, I think I've had five in total. Could be different in the UK but a bit of a coincidence if all the check sums are 0.

[johnny847]

This actually isn't all that uncommon for people with mutliple first party Amex cards. From reddit.

Their format: ABBC

A: This starts at 1 and gets incremented by one if you get a replacement because of loss or theft or whatever.

BB: This tells whether it's an AU card or primary. The primary card is 00, first AU is 01, and so on.

C: This is the checksum and is mathematically generated from the other 14 digits.

All of my first cards on a new Amex account have ended in 000, I think I've had five in total. Could be different in the UK but a bit of a coincidence if all the check sums are 0.

Not particularly. The other digits in Amex cards isn't all that random either. I read about it a while back but I don't remember where.

You can read about the checksum here (though despite checking the source code I wouldn't enter your cc number there) http://www.brainjar.com/js/validation/default2.asp

EDIT -: only six digits are random. http://www.businessinsider.com/credit-card-numbers-meaning-2014-7

[johnny847]

Usually credit card companies distinguish between cards using the last four or five digits.  "The AMEX ending in 12345", for example.

I do credit card offers.  So many that I, by chance, have two AMEX cards with the same ending five digits.  This causes confusion when I try to talk to AMEX about the newer card.

In other news, my Lexus with 145K miles is too old for Uber.

This actually isn't all that uncommon for people with mutliple first party Amex cards. From reddit.

Their format: ABBC

A: This starts at 1 and gets incremented by one if you get a replacement because of loss or theft or whatever.

BB: This tells whether it's an AU card or primary. The primary card is 00, first AU is 01, and so on.

C: This is the checksum and is mathematically generated from the other 14 digits.

So they expect people to have no more than 10 accounts, but a hundred AUs on each account?  Sounds backwards.

The checksum isn't meant to be a unique identifier.

Furthermore I assume Amex doesn't give a shit about the problems having two cards with the same last four digits can cause.

[Metric Mouse]

  LOL you know you're mustachian when your out of control spending is 21K/yr.

Love this!

I ran a year end report that showed our total spending as £80,000!!! Now, we've done some work on our house this year but I nearly fell off my chair (genuinely!).

When I drilled down I saw £55k was to our mortgage. Phew.

Haha. Nice.

[Playing with Fire UK]

This actually isn't all that uncommon for people with mutliple first party Amex cards. From reddit.

Their format: ABBC

A: This starts at 1 and gets incremented by one if you get a replacement because of loss or theft or whatever.

BB: This tells whether it's an AU card or primary. The primary card is 00, first AU is 01, and so on.

C: This is the checksum and is mathematically generated from the other 14 digits.

All of my first cards on a new Amex account have ended in 000, I think I've had five in total. Could be different in the UK but a bit of a coincidence if all the check sums are 0.

Not particularly. The other digits in Amex cards isn't all that random either.

But the whole point of a check sum is that changing any one number or switching any two adjacent numbers should change the check sum digit. So as the other numbers are different it would be unlikely that a check sum of all 14 numbers would be identical on 5 different cards. It could be that the check sum doesn't use the whole 14 digits?

[johnny847]

This actually isn't all that uncommon for people with mutliple first party Amex cards. From reddit.

Their format: ABBC

A: This starts at 1 and gets incremented by one if you get a replacement because of loss or theft or whatever.

BB: This tells whether it's an AU card or primary. The primary card is 00, first AU is 01, and so on.

C: This is the checksum and is mathematically generated from the other 14 digits.

All of my first cards on a new Amex account have ended in 000, I think I've had five in total. Could be different in the UK but a bit of a coincidence if all the check sums are 0.

Not particularly. The other digits in Amex cards isn't all that random either.

But the whole point of a check sum is that changing any one number or switching any two adjacent numbers should change the check sum digit. So as the other numbers are different it would be unlikely that a check sum of all 14 numbers would be identical on 5 different cards. It could be that the check sum doesn't use the whole 14 digits?

Your first point is correct, but there are only ten possible checksum digits. Furthermore as I already noted only six digits are random between your credit cards.

Why don't you run the formula to find out?

EDIT: Because only six digits are random between your credit cards, while the checksum is generated from all the other 14 digits, only the six random digits will actually change the checksum. And if you look at the formula there are plenty of combinations of changes to pairs of digits that will not change the checksum.

[RWD]

So as the other numbers are different it would be unlikely that a check sum of all 14 numbers would be identical on 5 different cards.

As johnny847 pointed out, there are only 10 possible checksum digits, regardless of how much you change around the other digits. So the odds of have the same checksum on 5 randomly chosen cards should be 1 in 100,000.

[johnny847]

So as the other numbers are different it would be unlikely that a check sum of all 14 numbers would be identical on 5 different cards.

As johnny847 pointed out, there are only 10 possible checksum digits, regardless of how much you change around the other digits. So the odds of have the same checksum on 5 randomly chosen cards should be 1 in 100,000.

True, but the cards aren't chosen at random here. We already know that the first four digits are not random. They're fixed. Digits twelve through fourteen are always 100 if the OP has never lost a card and asked for a replacement, and is not an authorized user card. This will bias your checksum digit.

[Warlord1986]

I got drunk last night and put $2,000 in my Roth IRA at 2 am. The problem is I was waiting for the market to go down so I could get a bargain. Drunk-me doesn't understand buying mutual funds on sale.

[markbike528CBX]

...Drunk-me doesn't understand buying mutual funds on sale.

Drunk you DOES understand dollar-cost-averaging, so stop complaining.

[johnny847]

...Drunk-me doesn't understand buying mutual funds on sale.

Drunk you DOES understand dollar-cost-averaging, so stop complaining.

And at least drunk you isn't blowing money on useless junk!

[Bracken_Joy]

My MPP:

I've reduced my coffee out habit so much that now I'm losing my starbucks gold status. =( So I won't earn free drinks and stuff when I *do* buy coffee now.

(~3 years ago, I would buy coffee out 6-10 times per week. Now it's once per month, tops. Really the only standing rules are, if a Home Depot trip takes more than 2 hours, I get a coffee reward for not losing my damn mind, and if we're on a road trip, they have the best bathrooms, lol!)

[Playing with Fire UK]

My MPP:
I've reduced my coffee out habit so much that now I'm losing my starbucks gold status. =( So I won't earn free drinks and stuff when I *do* buy coffee now.

I think this means you get a prize?

[BTDretire]

My MPP:

I've reduced my coffee out habit so much that now I'm losing my starbucks gold status. =( So I won't earn free drinks and stuff when I *do* buy coffee now.

(~3 years ago, I would buy coffee out 6-10 times per week. Now it's once per month, tops. Really the only standing rules are, if a Home Depot trip takes more than 2 hours, I get a coffee reward for not losing my damn mind,

My reward is drinking the free coffee they offer at Home Depot.

[Bracken_Joy]

My MPP:

I've reduced my coffee out habit so much that now I'm losing my starbucks gold status. =( So I won't earn free drinks and stuff when I *do* buy coffee now.

(~3 years ago, I would buy coffee out 6-10 times per week. Now it's once per month, tops. Really the only standing rules are, if a Home Depot trip takes more than 2 hours, I get a coffee reward for not losing my damn mind,

My reward is drinking the free coffee they offer at Home Depot.

Wait what? Where do they offer free coffee there? I have never seen this!

[Greenway52]

I got drunk last night and put $2,000 in my Roth IRA at 2 am.

Haha .. love this! You're so Mustachian that this is what you're thinking of when drunk!

[mustachepungoeshere]

I got drunk last night and put $2,000 in my Roth IRA at 2 am.

Haha .. love this! You're so Mustachian that this is what you're thinking of when drunk!

Oh now you're just giving me ideas! I want to dump more money into CommSec but can't seem to pull the trigger while sober...

[Warlord1986]

I got drunk last night and put $2,000 in my Roth IRA at 2 am.

Haha .. love this! You're so Mustachian that this is what you're thinking of when drunk!

I actually think it's because I was with a friend who told me I should do it. I can't quite recall the actual conversation but it probably went something like:

"Save, baby girl, save. Those dumbasses who spend all their money never escape the rat race. Save your money and then you don't have to kiss ass to keep a shitty job."

We've had that conversation before and it usually goes along those lines.

[Playing with Fire UK]

I got drunk last night and put $2,000 in my Roth IRA at 2 am.

Haha .. love this! You're so Mustachian that this is what you're thinking of when drunk!

I actually think it's because I was with a friend who told me I should do it. I can't quite recall the actual conversation but it probably went something like:

"Save, baby girl, save. Those dumbasses who spend all their money never escape the rat race. Save your money and then you don't have to kiss ass to keep a shitty job."

We've had that conversation before and it usually goes along those lines.

This is a good friend.

[BTDretire]

My MPP:

I've reduced my coffee out habit so much that now I'm losing my starbucks gold status. =( So I won't earn free drinks and stuff when I *do* buy coffee now.

(~3 years ago, I would buy coffee out 6-10 times per week. Now it's once per month, tops. Really the only standing rules are, if a Home Depot trip takes more than 2 hours, I get a coffee reward for not losing my damn mind,

My reward is drinking the free coffee they offer at Home Depot.

Wait what? Where do they offer free coffee there? I have never seen this!

The HD near me has it near the commercial sales area.

[TomTX]

My MPP:

I've reduced my coffee out habit so much that now I'm losing my starbucks gold status. =( So I won't earn free drinks and stuff when I *do* buy coffee now.

(~3 years ago, I would buy coffee out 6-10 times per week. Now it's once per month, tops. Really the only standing rules are, if a Home Depot trip takes more than 2 hours, I get a coffee reward for not losing my damn mind, and if we're on a road trip, they have the best bathrooms, lol!)

When I go to Home Depot I get a coffee reward too!

From Home Depot.

For Free.

In the contractor area. Exact location depends on the store.

If you don't drink coffee, most of 'em have a hot water tap on the machine if you have a teabag - which I do when traveling. Some of them stock hot cocoa packets.

Works at Lowe's too.

[Freckles]

It almost sounds like a fun family outing. I can take my dog into Home Depot. My kids think the place is awesome. And free coffee for the parents!

[Bracken_Joy]

My MPP:

I've reduced my coffee out habit so much that now I'm losing my starbucks gold status. =( So I won't earn free drinks and stuff when I *do* buy coffee now.

(~3 years ago, I would buy coffee out 6-10 times per week. Now it's once per month, tops. Really the only standing rules are, if a Home Depot trip takes more than 2 hours, I get a coffee reward for not losing my damn mind, and if we're on a road trip, they have the best bathrooms, lol!)

When I go to Home Depot I get a coffee reward too!

From Home Depot.

For Free.

In the contractor area. Exact location depends on the store.

If you don't drink coffee, most of 'em have a hot water tap on the machine if you have a teabag - which I do when traveling. Some of them stock hot cocoa packets.

Works at Lowe's too.

...do you have to be a contractor to go into the contractor area?

It almost sounds like a fun family outing. I can take my dog into Home Depot. My kids think the place is awesome. And free coffee for the parents!

Old Miss Dog would have no interest in this. People think she is cute and want to touch her. If she's in public, she would prefer people go away and leave her to her sniffing of interesting things.

I don't mind short HD trips. It's the long ones that kill me. Usually because it means we've had to go through multiple sales associates that have no idea what they're doing, or are dealing with some sort of stock issue. Since buying a house, I feel like we live at HD some days.

[Rural]

My MPP: I've been avoiding opening the door all day to keep the house warmer with less fuel, but now I'm cooking and I need to get to my compost heap with the scraps. Dilemma.


ETA: and our passive solar heat isn't working because we haven't seem the sun in several days,

[TrMama]

So, not totally mustachian because we were buying a car, but we weren't sure if we were going to finance part of it (so we could keep more cash invested), or just pay in cash. Anyway, we filled out the application for financing so we'd at least have the option. We'll see what interest rate they come back with.

While writing down our personal finance details, I felt dizzy.  I had to ask DH what our house is worth. He had to ask me how much he makes annually. Neither of us knew what to put down in the section on how much we pay in rent/mortgage, since we recently paid off our mortgage. The whole exercise felt really surreal. Kind of like standing naked in front of a room full of strangers.

Next MPP: We pick up the car on Thursday. On Friday, I will bike to work.

[TrMama]

...do you have to be a contractor to go into the contractor area?

Yes, they check your contractor license before they let you through the golden doors ;-)

[Linea_Norway]

My MPP: I've been avoiding opening the door all day to keep the house warmer with less fuel, but now I'm cooking and I need to get to my compost heap with the scraps. Dilemma.


ETA: and our passive solar heat isn't working because we haven't seem the sun in several days,

Take a small bin with a lid in the kitchen for the scraps and empty it outside once or twice a week.

Doesn't your solar heat work with solar panels? I thought these panels worked also with cloudy weather, as long as there is daylight.

[Metric Mouse]

My MPP: I've been avoiding opening the door all day to keep the house warmer with less fuel, but now I'm cooking and I need to get to my compost heap with the scraps. Dilemma.


ETA: and our passive solar heat isn't working because we haven't seem the sun in several days,

Take a small bin with a lid in the kitchen for the scraps and empty it outside once or twice a week.

Doesn't your solar heat work with solar panels? I thought these panels worked also with cloudy weather, as long as there is daylight.

Passive solar heating: no panels.

[LennStar]

My MPP: I've been avoiding opening the door all day to keep the house warmer with less fuel, but now I'm cooking and I need to get to my compost heap with the scraps. Dilemma.

Let it rot in the house. Rotting produces heat ;)

[dragoncar]

My MPP: I've been avoiding opening the door all day to keep the house warmer with less fuel, but now I'm cooking and I need to get to my compost heap with the scraps. Dilemma.


ETA: and our passive solar heat isn't working because we haven't seem the sun in several days,

Take a small bin with a lid in the kitchen for the scraps and empty it outside once or twice a week.

Doesn't your solar heat work with solar panels? I thought these panels worked also with cloudy weather, as long as there is daylight.

Keep the compost heap in the house and reap the thermal rewards of decomposition

[Metric Mouse]

My MPP: I've been avoiding opening the door all day to keep the house warmer with less fuel, but now I'm cooking and I need to get to my compost heap with the scraps. Dilemma.


ETA: and our passive solar heat isn't working because we haven't seem the sun in several days,

Take a small bin with a lid in the kitchen for the scraps and empty it outside once or twice a week.

Doesn't your solar heat work with solar panels? I thought these panels worked also with cloudy weather, as long as there is daylight.

Keep the compost heap in the house and reap the thermal rewards of decomposition

Ooh...ooh... how can I increase the thermal mass of my indoor compost bin?

[Linea_Norway]

Ooh...ooh... how can I increase the thermal mass of my indoor compost bin?

Doesn't this go by itself? Our compost bin outside is well insulated. It even has an extra lid inside that presses on the stuff that is inside. A lot of heat comes off it. De composting itself generates heat well. But it does get a bit smelly. I personally wouldn't want it in my house.

[gaja]

This is either a "I've spoiled my children rotten" or a "mustachian children" problem. Christmas is in 3 days, and the kids don't have a wish list. Or, the oldest has one, where the top item is that we help her clean her room. We can probably find something they need, like clothes to replace what they have grown out of, or rebuild their furniture to better fit their needs. But the girls both have clearly said that they are very happy with what they have got in the toys, books, and hobbies department.

[Rural]

My MPP: I've been avoiding opening the door all day to keep the house warmer with less fuel, but now I'm cooking and I need to get to my compost heap with the scraps. Dilemma.


ETA: and our passive solar heat isn't working because we haven't seem the sun in several days,

Take a small bin with a lid in the kitchen for the scraps and empty it outside once or twice a week.

Doesn't your solar heat work with solar panels? I thought these panels worked also with cloudy weather, as long as there is daylight.

Keep the compost heap in the house and reap the thermal rewards of decomposition

Ooh...ooh... how can I increase the thermal mass of my indoor compost bin?

Okay, guys, dogs. Sneaky big ones. I cannot compost in the house even if I had magic no-smell compost; I must do it outside their fence.

 However, if it makes you feel better, the tomatoes I had growing next to the compost survived the first two light freezes, no doubt in part because of the microclimate from our southern espxoosure but surely also partly due to the heat from the compost (and the general health that results from growing so close to the heap likely didn't hurt).

And for Linda: yes passive solar heat, no panels. High thermal mass, southern exposure only (rest of the house is earth sheltered), lots and lots of heat gain from the sun through our southern wall of mostly windows in winter most of the time. But not the last few days. Which is frustrating since today will be the very best angle for getting the most of our solar heat all year, and what do we have? Freezing fog.

So today's MPP: freezing fog.

[Apples]

...do you have to be a contractor to go into the contractor area?

Yes, they check your contractor license before they let you through the golden doors ;-)

You do not.  I've been over in that section.  I've needed to buy a few things for our farm from that section of the store.  I am not the sort of person you would mistake for a contractor, and I couldn't fake it.  And they don't really guard the coffee or anything.

[TomTX]

So, not totally mustachian because we were buying a car, but we weren't sure if we were going to finance part of it (so we could keep more cash invested), or just pay in cash. Anyway, we filled out the application for financing so we'd at least have the option. We'll see what interest rate they come back with.

While writing down our personal finance details, I felt dizzy.  I had to ask DH what our house is worth. He had to ask me how much he makes annually. Neither of us knew what to put down in the section on how much we pay in rent/mortgage, since we recently paid off our mortgage. The whole exercise felt really surreal. Kind of like standing naked in front of a room full of strangers.

Next MPP: We pick up the car on Thursday. On Friday, I will bike to work.

Well, for rent/mortgage, just take the annual property tax and divide by 12....

[TomTX]

My MPP:

I've reduced my coffee out habit so much that now I'm losing my starbucks gold status. =( So I won't earn free drinks and stuff when I *do* buy coffee now.

(~3 years ago, I would buy coffee out 6-10 times per week. Now it's once per month, tops. Really the only standing rules are, if a Home Depot trip takes more than 2 hours, I get a coffee reward for not losing my damn mind, and if we're on a road trip, they have the best bathrooms, lol!)

When I go to Home Depot I get a coffee reward too!

From Home Depot.

For Free.

In the contractor area. Exact location depends on the store.

If you don't drink coffee, most of 'em have a hot water tap on the machine if you have a teabag - which I do when traveling. Some of them stock hot cocoa packets.

Works at Lowe's too.

...do you have to be a contractor to go into the contractor area?

I'm not a contractor and have gotten coffee or made tea in literally dozens of Home Depot/Lowe's in at least 6 states. Hell, when I go to my local store in the morning I bring my nearly empty travel mug with ~1" of milk in the bottom to fill up.

Nobody ever says anything, except possibly something like "The one on the left is fresh"

[katstache92]

My current problem: I really want to get to 6 digits in investments by the end of the year.  My remaining 401k contributions won't get me there.  I was thinking, I'll just dump $1,500 into a taxable account.  Then I realized, if I felt I had enough sitting in my e-fund to do that then I should wait until January 1 and put it into the 2017 roth.  Bummer.

[secondcor521]

My current problem: I really want to get to 6 digits in investments by the end of the year.  My remaining 401k contributions won't get me there.  I was thinking, I'll just dump $1,500 into a taxable account.  Then I realized, if I felt I had enough sitting in my e-fund to do that then I should wait until January 1 and put it into the 2017 roth.  Bummer.

#mpp #alreadymaxxed2016 ?

[TomTX]

It almost sounds like a fun family outing. I can take my dog into Home Depot. My kids think the place is awesome. And free coffee for the parents!

Every bathroom has a baby changing station.

That's better than Kennedy Space Center (visitor's center)

[StartingEarly]

$5500 for traditional IRA maxed?

[Bracken_Joy]

My MPP:

I've reduced my coffee out habit so much that now I'm losing my starbucks gold status. =( So I won't earn free drinks and stuff when I *do* buy coffee now.

(~3 years ago, I would buy coffee out 6-10 times per week. Now it's once per month, tops. Really the only standing rules are, if a Home Depot trip takes more than 2 hours, I get a coffee reward for not losing my damn mind, and if we're on a road trip, they have the best bathrooms, lol!)

When I go to Home Depot I get a coffee reward too!

From Home Depot.

For Free.

In the contractor area. Exact location depends on the store.

If you don't drink coffee, most of 'em have a hot water tap on the machine if you have a teabag - which I do when traveling. Some of them stock hot cocoa packets.

Works at Lowe's too.

...do you have to be a contractor to go into the contractor area?

I'm not a contractor and have gotten coffee or made tea in literally dozens of Home Depot/Lowe's in at least 6 states. Hell, when I go to my local store in the morning I bring my nearly empty travel mug with ~1" of milk in the bottom to fill up.

Nobody ever says anything, except possibly something like "The one on the left is fresh"

Thank you for the info guys! I will pursue this while in store next time. So like... tomorrow, probably, given our track record.

(But shhh, I'm gonna keep my 2 hour rule, don't tell the MMM police. But now I'll have coffee on my sub-2 hour trips, too!)