Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)

[Alternatepriorities]

I've been helping a group of friends understand their finances and had to lead a budgeting discussion last night...

MPP: We don't budget, we just spend as little as practical, earn more than we spend and invest the surplus... So we had to invent a budget. I named it our "fudget".

Similar to your problem:

A friend asked me how much my budget was for a trip I was gonna take, as it was a long trip to an expensive country and she knows I'm cheap/frugal/good with money (depending on your definition). I had to admit I had no budget.. I always check what price levels I can expect and have a maximum number in my head, but in the end I'm always way, way under that 'budget'.

I have never understood all that budget stuff.

I have my "stone set" expenses like rent and electricity. It is the same, every single month, it may only change once a year. You don't need a budget, because you cannot increase this (not without knowing it very well).

After that I buy food. I don't have a budget here. I just buy what I need and want to eat, and no budget is changing that. I surely am not gonna starve.
Eating out? I'm not a fan of this anyway. If it happens, it happens. No budget is making me say "Ah, no, I can't come to your birthday" (or whatever event there is).

Anything else? I am too much a perfectionst (hm... I admit so far it does not sound like it :D) to buy stuff I have not informed myself before, often extensivly.
I am not going through this hassle if I don't need X.

The only thing I spend money without thinking about it (or it being a regular necessity) is books.
And even with all the time of the day and the most ferocious reader, you can only buy so much books. (Of course I still have an unread books pile. But then again, the bigger it gets, the less inclined I am to buy new books, so it evens out eventually.)

If you replace "books" with "outdoor gear from REI" that's almost exactly how my spending worked during the first phase of life after university. I've learned since that having goals to work toward, like spend less that $75 per month eating out, really help some people spend less. It doesn't seem to matter for me though.

[Imma]

Budgets can be useful for strategic planning.  We use them to help us to plan major purchases, investment strategies, and to understand our overall financial picture looking forward.  But month to month, we just buy what we need.

I think a lot of people use budgets as a way to justify frivolous purchases.  "Well, it's in the budget, so why not?"  I see that at work, too.  It drives me nuts.

And at work there's even an incentive to spend money: if you don't spend your X budget this year because of Y, chances are your budget for next year will be cut because apparantly you don't need that much. This was really visible when I worked in software, the 2nd half of december was always really busy because companies are suddenly on a spending spree. Sure you may not really need this or that but it may be useful for this one thing someday, but next year you really need to buy some other tool so you can't afford to have your budget slashed. It's extremely inefficient but it's how many megacorps work.

[Alternatepriorities]

Budgets can be useful for strategic planning.  We use them to help us to plan major purchases, investment strategies, and to understand our overall financial picture looking forward.  But month to month, we just buy what we need.

I think a lot of people use budgets as a way to justify frivolous purchases.  "Well, it's in the budget, so why not?"  I see that at work, too. It drives me nuts.

Me too! I know a family who followed a Dave Ramsey style budget but spent more than $1k on a new couch simply because the furniture budget had accumulated enough money to do so... Meanwhile their savings rate is 10% because that's what the budget says to save. My mind is still blown.

[Hirondelle]

Budgets can be useful for strategic planning.  We use them to help us to plan major purchases, investment strategies, and to understand our overall financial picture looking forward.  But month to month, we just buy what we need.

I think a lot of people use budgets as a way to justify frivolous purchases.  "Well, it's in the budget, so why not?"  I see that at work, too.  It drives me nuts.

And at work there's even an incentive to spend money: if you don't spend your X budget this year because of Y, chances are your budget for next year will be cut because apparantly you don't need that much. This was really visible when I worked in software, the 2nd half of december was always really busy because companies are suddenly on a spending spree. Sure you may not really need this or that but it may be useful for this one thing someday, but next year you really need to buy some other tool so you can't afford to have your budget slashed. It's extremely inefficient but it's how many megacorps work.

Even in academia lots of things work like that. I have a yearly budget for courses and conferences and if I don't spend it before the end of the year it just disappears rather than that it builds up. Highly annoying, as last year I had budget leftover that I couldn't put towards a more expensive conference/course this year.. Some things just don't start in January and end in December.

[Linea_Norway]

Budgets can be useful for strategic planning.  We use them to help us to plan major purchases, investment strategies, and to understand our overall financial picture looking forward.  But month to month, we just buy what we need.

I think a lot of people use budgets as a way to justify frivolous purchases.  "Well, it's in the budget, so why not?"  I see that at work, too.  It drives me nuts.

And at work there's even an incentive to spend money: if you don't spend your X budget this year because of Y, chances are your budget for next year will be cut because apparantly you don't need that much. This was really visible when I worked in software, the 2nd half of december was always really busy because companies are suddenly on a spending spree. Sure you may not really need this or that but it may be useful for this one thing someday, but next year you really need to buy some other tool so you can't afford to have your budget slashed. It's extremely inefficient but it's how many megacorps work.

Even in academia lots of things work like that. I have a yearly budget for courses and conferences and if I don't spend it before the end of the year it just disappears rather than that it builds up. Highly annoying, as last year I had budget leftover that I couldn't put towards a more expensive conference/course this year.. Some things just don't start in January and end in December.

There are lots of companies, actually most of them, that make budgets. They guess how much revenue they will make and guess their cost. But I once read a book about not having a budget for a company. Every investment plan should be discussed and accepted or not, based on what it's prospects are. Budgetting for a whole year ahead is very limiting.

[bluebelle]

Budgets can be useful for strategic planning.  We use them to help us to plan major purchases, investment strategies, and to understand our overall financial picture looking forward.  But month to month, we just buy what we need.

I think a lot of people use budgets as a way to justify frivolous purchases.  "Well, it's in the budget, so why not?"  I see that at work, too.  It drives me nuts.

I think budgets are very useful to help evaluate what spending is important to you.  What is frivolous to you may have value to someone else.   A thoughtful budget isn't going to have frivolous spending in it, but it should have some discretionary spending in it.   It should have some 'fun' money in it.   We all need fun.  (I'm working on the assumption that the debt situation isn't a hair on fire, wolf at the door scenario).   Just like it's important to save for a rainy day, it's important to enjoy the shine while is shines now.   Money, in and of itself holds no value.  Its value comes from the joy and security it brings your family.  When I bought my first house, I explained the power of compound interest to my ex and he tried to draw up a budget that was so tight, living would have been deary, no pizza or a movie for the foreseeable future (every spare cent would go to paying down the mortgage, back in the day when interest rates were 14%)....

full disclosure - I come from a position of privilege; I was born with a fairly high IQ, I went to university when it was affordable, got a computer science degree, graduated when companies were hiring in droves,  I've never been without a job, I have an income well above median, I've never had a serious health crisis, and come from conservative blue collar roots so my wants are pretty pedestrian.   I've been thinking about privilege a lot lately.  While I wasn't born into wealth and all the connections that comes with that, I also wasn't born with strikes against me.    While I've worked hard and earned what I have, I also remind myself that there's been a lot of luck too.

[Zikoris]

We have an annual travel budget because it's something we actually do need to rein in a bit, since the possibilities with travel are really endless and we have good imaginations. But for individual trips, no - if one trip is pricier than expected, we just go somewhere cheaper for any remaining trips that year.

[dragoncar]

Budgets can be useful for strategic planning.  We use them to help us to plan major purchases, investment strategies, and to understand our overall financial picture looking forward.  But month to month, we just buy what we need.

I think a lot of people use budgets as a way to justify frivolous purchases.  "Well, it's in the budget, so why not?"  I see that at work, too.  It drives me nuts.

And at work there's even an incentive to spend money: if you don't spend your X budget this year because of Y, chances are your budget for next year will be cut because apparantly you don't need that much. This was really visible when I worked in software, the 2nd half of december was always really busy because companies are suddenly on a spending spree. Sure you may not really need this or that but it may be useful for this one thing someday, but next year you really need to buy some other tool so you can't afford to have your budget slashed. It's extremely inefficient but it's how many megacorps work.

Even in academia lots of things work like that. I have a yearly budget for courses and conferences and if I don't spend it before the end of the year it just disappears rather than that it builds up. Highly annoying, as last year I had budget leftover that I couldn't put towards a more expensive conference/course this year.. Some things just don't start in January and end in December.

Works this way in my family, too.  I wanted to spend an extra $1000 this year on glass figurines, but my wife said no because I didn't spend my entire 2018 glass figurine budget.

[Taran Wanderer]

[Alternatepriorities]

We have an annual travel budget because it's something we actually do need to rein in a bit, since the possibilities with travel are really endless and we have good imaginations. But for individual trips, no - if one trip is pricier than expected, we just go somewhere cheaper for any remaining trips that year.

This seems like a good idea... I'm not sure how to sell it though.

Especially since we've definitely blown any reasonable travel budget this year, but I was running some numbers today and realized that using MAAP (Mustachian Accepted Accounting Practices - ie counting debt/principle payment as savings) we will very likely save more than our AGI this year...

[sui generis]

My problem is a combo MPP+getting older problem.  I forgot to set an alarm to check in for my Southwest flight, but of course I would never pay the "early bird check in" fee of $15 to get checked in automatically and get a good boarding position. So I just remembered to check in for a flight early tomorrow...I was about 9.5 hours late and...let's just say that probably the only seat left by the time I board will be in the loo.

[Hirondelle]

My problem is a combo MPP+getting older problem.  I forgot to set an alarm to check in for my Southwest flight, but of course I would never pay the "early bird check in" fee of $15 to get checked in automatically and get a good boarding position. So I just remembered to check in for a flight early tomorrow...I was about 9.5 hours late and...let's just say that probably the only seat left by the time I board will be in the loo.

Is it that uncommon to check in on the spot nowadays? I usually do my check ins at the airport and never end up at the loo :)

[chouchouu]

Paid my electricity bill for the quarter, which was $168, about average for me. After I paid I noticed that there was a little cr next to the amount. My account was actually in credit for 168 as they had worked out I had been over charged so credited my account. There is also a little graphic that comes with each bill showing that my household consumption is a third of a single occupant household, despite being me and the two kids.

So now my electricity account is 336 in credit because they totally over estimated my consumption.

[LennStar]

Paid my electricity bill for the quarter, which was $168, about average for me. After I paid I noticed that there was a little cr next to the amount. My account was actually in credit for 168 as they had worked out I had been over charged so credited my account. There is also a little graphic that comes with each bill showing that my household consumption is a third of a single occupant household, despite being me and the two kids.

So now my electricity account is 336 in credit because they totally over estimated my consumption.

How about telling them to change it? You are losing money here! Especially if the company gets bancrupt.
Also didn't you tell them your consumption when you made the contract? That is standard here in Germany, but that may be a socialist thing, and the company deciding alone how much you use is the more efficient Free Market? (Yeah, I done it again! | )

[Imma]

Paid my electricity bill for the quarter, which was $168, about average for me. After I paid I noticed that there was a little cr next to the amount. My account was actually in credit for 168 as they had worked out I had been over charged so credited my account. There is also a little graphic that comes with each bill showing that my household consumption is a third of a single occupant household, despite being me and the two kids.

So now my electricity account is 336 in credit because they totally over estimated my consumption.

How about telling them to change it? You are losing money here! Especially if the company gets bancrupt.
Also didn't you tell them your consumption when you made the contract? That is standard here in Germany, but that may be a socialist thing, and the company deciding alone how much you use is the more efficient Free Market? (Yeah, I done it again! | )

For some reason in NL energy companies always overestimate your consumption. They can check your past usage and using that information and their "experience" they always set the monthly amount a bit too high. Sometimes it works to call them to lower the monthly payment but it's always a little bit too high. I get why the company does that - it's annoying for us to basically extend a free loan to an energy company, but if the company had to wait to receive the full payment for all the people who bought some extra devices and toys the past year and therefore used a bit more energy than they thought they would, they would certainly go bankrupt. For a lot of people it's not easy to come up with €200 suddenly. We mustachians tend to forget that.

[cupcakery]

1.  When your starter home is so small that people think you're poor and need help.  Meanwhile you have empty drawers and cabinets because you don't own enough stuff to fill them.

2.  When you go to work and find out that you are wearing the same sweater as your coworker.  They are identical, but she says hers is better because she bought it for full price at Macy's and your sweater isn't as nice because you paid $20 at Marshalls.  Again...identical.

3.  When it is Christmas and your kids can't think of anything to add to their Christmas lists, but you really want to give them a present, so you have to be creative and give them an experience.  Very stressful.

4.  When everyone at work goes to Disney every year and feels bad for you because you didn't go and then talks about all of their debt payments.  Meanwhile you cash flowed a wonderful vacation that cost significantly less and your kids can't stop talking about how much they enjoyed it.

5.  When people feel bad for you because you don't eat out daily, but your homecooked meals are less expensive and much tastier than restaurant food.  Bonus points for having your husband and kids grateful for all of the wonderful meals.  Extra bonus points when the kids are on vacation with the grandparents and they text you and beg you to make something special when they get home, because they feel sick from eating out.

[Imma]

1.  When your starter home is so small that people think you're poor and need help.  Meanwhile you have empty drawers and cabinets because you don't own enough stuff to fill them.

This can actually be a great advantage for a mustachian. We hardly ever buy any furniture or other big ticket items, because when family and friends replace their stuff after less than 5 years of very light use, poor parttime Imma and her minimum wage job guy with the very ordinary home are the first ones they call to pick it up.

Actually we have a 50% savings rate, a 5-figure mortgage and a fancy coffeemachine that we got for free because someone before us had brewed coffee a few times then decided it was too big. While we don't tell most people exact numbers, we are open to our friends and relatives that we're not poor but frugal. I don't think they completely believe that but I want to make sure they know we don't need charity. We'll happily pick up stuff that you were going to take to landfill and bring some homebaked goodies as a thank you, but anything we need we could afford to buy new if we wanted to.

[raincoast]

3.  When it is Christmas and your kids can't think of anything to add to their Christmas lists, but you really want to give them a present, so you have to be creative and give them an experience.  Very stressful.

This is me, but in reverse. Even though I'm almost thirty my mother still asks me for my birthday and Christmas lists each year, and I can't usually come up with as many ideas as she wants because I have everything I want or need. So this year I asked her for rainproof bike pants (winters here are a never-ending rainstorm).

[Kazyan]

The least amount of house available on the market around here was still a lot more house than I needed, but I bought it because the numbers worked out in my favor anyway. So I tried to get a roommate, but the roommate sucked/wouldn't pay rent and I like my privacy. So I tried to list a room on Stache as storage space, but I'm in an LCOL large town and no one has heard of Stache. So I still have more house than I know what to do with.

I'll probably get another roommate after a few weeks of "🦀🦀🦀 BAD ROOMMATE IS GONE 🦀🦀🦀" celebration.

[Sugaree]

3.  When it is Christmas and your kids can't think of anything to add to their Christmas lists, but you really want to give them a present, so you have to be creative and give them an experience.  Very stressful.

This is me, but in reverse. Even though I'm almost thirty my mother still asks me for my birthday and Christmas lists each year, and I can't usually come up with as many ideas as she wants because I have everything I want or need. So this year I asked her for rainproof bike pants (winters here are a never-ending rainstorm).

I'm the same way.  I really want a robot vacuum and smart blinds for one of my windows, but I feel like both items are too expensive to ask for.  So I wind up asking for gift cards instead.  I'm 99% sure that my parents are actually giving us a TV this year because they bought my brother one as an "early xmas present" when his went out a couple of weeks ago.  Dad was asking if we needed a new TV.  I mean, I have a 10+ year old TV that the color has been going out on for two years, but I wasn't planning on replacing it until it gave up the ghost.


I was very proud of my kiddo this year.  When he writes his letter to Santa he gets a certain number of slots to fill.  This year it was four.  He could only come up with four things that he actually wanted and one of those was already designated as coming from mom and dad (we're taking a trip starting on the 19th and I want to give this to him early to occupy him during a 21  hour train ride).  So he couldn't come up with anything else and asked Santa to surprise him. 

[sui generis]

My problem is a combo MPP+getting older problem.  I forgot to set an alarm to check in for my Southwest flight, but of course I would never pay the "early bird check in" fee of $15 to get checked in automatically and get a good boarding position. So I just remembered to check in for a flight early tomorrow...I was about 9.5 hours late and...let's just say that probably the only seat left by the time I board will be in the loo.

Is it that uncommon to check in on the spot nowadays? I usually do my check ins at the airport and never end up at the loo :)

For any other airline, I don't bother trying to be on time to check in, but for Southwest? Sometimes if I'm like 2 minutes past the 24 hr mark I get like B32.

In the case of today's flight I would have liked better seating because I'm not checking baggage and have no connecting flight, so I'd have liked to have been able to jump out and run for the earliest possible train. Probably will miss at least one this time.

[solon]

The least amount of house available on the market around here was still a lot more house than I needed, but I bought it because the numbers worked out in my favor anyway. So I tried to get a roommate, but the roommate sucked/wouldn't pay rent and I like my privacy. So I tried to list a room on Stache as storage space, but I'm in an LCOL large town and no one has heard of Stache. So I still have more house than I know what to do with.

I'll probably get another roommate after a few weeks of "🦀🦀🦀 BAD ROOMMATE IS GONE 🦀🦀🦀" celebration.

I never heard of stache before (www.stache.com), but I checked it out just now. It's a very interesting idea, but nobody in my area is on it. Then I checked in Denver, the nearest large metro area to me, and there is only one person on it.

It looks like a great idea, they just need to market it a little better.

[Alfred J Quack]

We had an expensive few days. Our son needed a new bicycle because the current one was too small, 230 euros. So I thought mine could use replacing as well because it pedals like a tank and needs a lot of effort to move so I got myself a sports-type bike (yes, with a kiddy seat on the back) - 400 euro's but the older bike was 300 in trade-in (actually a pretty reasonable price considering I also bargained some free options). Then we went for DW's bike because it needed severe maintenance (brakes, gears and chain were on their final legs), which totalled at 360 minus 30 for the trade in (yeah, scrap metal).

So I now have a easy-rider sports type
DS has a cargo-bike (with basket on the front)
DW has a mommy-bike with 2-pronged stand. You can kick it and it still won't go down :P

[LennStar]

1.  When your starter home is so small that people think you're poor and need help.  Meanwhile you have empty drawers and cabinets because you don't own enough stuff to fill them.

This can actually be a great advantage for a mustachian. We hardly ever buy any furniture or other big ticket items, because when family and friends replace their stuff after less than 5 years of very light use, poor parttime Imma and her minimum wage job guy with the very ordinary home are the first ones they call to pick it up.

Actually we have a 50% savings rate, a 5-figure mortgage and a fancy coffeemachine that we got for free because someone before us had brewed coffee a few times then decided it was too big. While we don't tell most people exact numbers, we are open to our friends and relatives that we're not poor but frugal. I don't think they completely believe that but I want to make sure they know we don't need charity. We'll happily pick up stuff that you were going to take to landfill and bring some homebaked goodies as a thank you, but anything we need we could afford to buy new if we wanted to.

1,5 minimum wage and 50% savings rate? Whew, not bad!

I moved half a year ago and finally got around to get the 2 book shelves I needed more (since I can now luxuriously put only 1 book deep into them). One was a cheapo they used as display example. It had some "hits" but who cares? I either have my back to it or only look at the books in it, not if it has scatches on the (anyway hidden) side.

Too bad there are never book shelves out on the piles of old stuff. You could snatch tons of completely OK chairs, miles of living room monstrosities - but book shelves? No :(

But now I of course have the opposite problem. I guess I will be left with 2,5m of free shelf space. I get itchy just thinking about it. Is there a book addiction self help group?

MPP: You can't get the stuff you need for your addiction used, because too few people have that addiction and they all keep their hands on the stuff and never give it away!

[Imma]

1.  When your starter home is so small that people think you're poor and need help.  Meanwhile you have empty drawers and cabinets because you don't own enough stuff to fill them.

This can actually be a great advantage for a mustachian. We hardly ever buy any furniture or other big ticket items, because when family and friends replace their stuff after less than 5 years of very light use, poor parttime Imma and her minimum wage job guy with the very ordinary home are the first ones they call to pick it up.

Actually we have a 50% savings rate, a 5-figure mortgage and a fancy coffeemachine that we got for free because someone before us had brewed coffee a few times then decided it was too big. While we don't tell most people exact numbers, we are open to our friends and relatives that we're not poor but frugal. I don't think they completely believe that but I want to make sure they know we don't need charity. We'll happily pick up stuff that you were going to take to landfill and bring some homebaked goodies as a thank you, but anything we need we could afford to buy new if we wanted to.

1,5 minimum wage and 50% savings rate? Whew, not bad!

I moved half a year ago and finally got around to get the 2 book shelves I needed more (since I can now luxuriously put only 1 book deep into them). One was a cheapo they used as display example. It had some "hits" but who cares? I either have my back to it or only look at the books in it, not if it has scatches on the (anyway hidden) side.

Too bad there are never book shelves out on the piles of old stuff. You could snatch tons of completely OK chairs, miles of living room monstrosities - but book shelves? No :(

But now I of course have the opposite problem. I guess I will be left with 2,5m of free shelf space. I get itchy just thinking about it. Is there a book addiction self help group?

MPP: You can't get the stuff you need for your addiction used, because too few people have that addiction and they all keep their hands on the stuff and never give it away!

No I don't make minimum wage, but as I work parttime in a very vague, not fancy sounding job people generally assume I don't make  much. And I kind of like having the type of job where the salary isn't immediately obvious to everyone. S/o makes about minimum wage but gets tips. All in all we make about 2 fulltime minimum wage incomes and spend about one minimum wage income every month - but together we work 1,4 FTE. I think that's a pretty good deal!

Our home had a beautiful built in bookcase and it turns out most neighbours have ripped it out :( they didn't know what to do with all those shelves. They didn't want to fill them with trinkets and vases. Ehm, what about books? "Who has that many?"

Well, me. I've added an extra shelf and the books are 2 deep and there are 2 more bookcases in my study. I'm no collector, most are cheap editions bought second hand,  but I do love reading.

[chouchouu]

Paid my electricity bill for the quarter, which was $168, about average for me. After I paid I noticed that there was a little cr next to the amount. My account was actually in credit for 168 as they had worked out I had been over charged so credited my account. There is also a little graphic that comes with each bill showing that my household consumption is a third of a single occupant household, despite being me and the two kids.

So now my electricity account is 336 in credit because they totally over estimated my consumption.

How about telling them to change it? You are losing money here! Especially if the company gets bancrupt.
Also didn't you tell them your consumption when you made the contract? That is standard here in Germany, but that may be a socialist thing, and the company deciding alone how much you use is the more efficient Free Market? (Yeah, I done it again! | )

I've never heard of an energy company going bankrupt so I don't think there's much chance of that here. We moved to our place after being tenants of my mother which had shared electricity so I didn't know how much our personal usage is. Either way they charge in Australia by reading the metre and make an estimate on past usage if they can't access the metre for some reason. My husband moved out earlier this year so perhaps that's why their estimate was off but I'm still very surprised.

[Linea_Norway]

We are thinking of buying a new car, and maybe an EV. Therefore I took a look at the Tesla website to check some prices. When I had selected the choices and went to the page that showed the price. But it only showed the price per month. I really had to look several places before I found a tab saying "cash" that finally showed me the total price.
So for some reason, taking up a car loan was the default option. And the total price was hidden from first view. That was very unexpected from my point of view. Even the next car I checked, showed the same price per month first, so the system doesn't even remember I want to pay cash.

By the way, not sure we will end up with a Tesla, I was just checking prices and driving range. We might well end up with a Skoda EV.

[dragoncar]

We are thinking of buying a new car, and maybe an EV. Therefore I took a look at the Tesla website to check some prices. When I had selected the choices and went to the page that showed the price. But it only showed the price per month. I really had to look several places before I found a tab saying "cash" that finally showed me the total price.
So for some reason, taking up a car loan was the default option. And the total price was hidden from first view. That was very unexpected from my point of view. Even the next car I checked, showed the same price per month first, so the system doesn't even remember I want to pay cash.

By the way, not sure we will end up with a Tesla, I was just checking prices and driving range. We might well end up with a Skoda EV.

I think part of this is that they just want to hide the total price to avoid sticker shock.  They seem to play a lot of games by including discounts like "savings from not buying gas" and whatever

[UncleX]

I've never heard of an energy company going bankrupt so I don't think there's much chance of that here.

Welcome to the Netherlands:

Trianel - December 2012
Orro - December 2012
EnergieFlex - October 2018
Robin Energie - Februari 2019

These are not producers but resellers. Still, if they go bankrupt, your money is gone.

[LennStar]

I've never heard of an energy company going bankrupt so I don't think there's much chance of that here.

Welcome to the Netherlands:

Trianel - December 2012
Orro - December 2012
EnergieFlex - October 2018
Robin Energie - Februari 2019

These are not producers but resellers. Still, if they go bankrupt, your money is gone.

A few years ago there was one in Germany wher you had to pay upfront for a year and get a cheaper price for this.
They miscalculated and on top did not declare bancruptcy on time so people still payed them even though it was clear (for the company) they would lose the money.

[dragoncar]

I've never heard of an energy company going bankrupt so I don't think there's much chance of that here.

Welcome to the Netherlands:

Trianel - December 2012
Orro - December 2012
EnergieFlex - October 2018
Robin Energie - Februari 2019

These are not producers but resellers. Still, if they go bankrupt, your money is gone.

My energy company (producer and distributor) just went through bankruptcy and my credit balance was fine (PG&E).  I was all ready to make a creditor claim but it was already preserved. 

[Sugaree]

We are thinking of buying a new car, and maybe an EV. Therefore I took a look at the Tesla website to check some prices. When I had selected the choices and went to the page that showed the price. But it only showed the price per month. I really had to look several places before I found a tab saying "cash" that finally showed me the total price.
So for some reason, taking up a car loan was the default option. And the total price was hidden from first view. That was very unexpected from my point of view. Even the next car I checked, showed the same price per month first, so the system doesn't even remember I want to pay cash.

That seems to be becoming standard operating procedure.  The salesman wants to talk about the monthly payment, not the price.  Even if you want to pay cash, they want you to finance.  Some of the dealer/manufacturer incentives are only available with financing.  My in-laws ran into this with their last car.  The dealer basically told them that there was going to be a whole bunch of extra "Patriot Act" paperwork to fill out if they wanted to buy it outright.  That was dumb because they had a cashier's check, not a briefcase full of Benjamins.  They gave up and financed it, then paid it off the next week.  It turns out that might have screwed the dealership even more than just letting them pay cash since a lot of the incentives that the dealer gets, and passes on, for financing people are often voided out if the loan gets paid off within 3-6 months.

CarMax seems to be an exception, but that might have been that I let the salesman know up front that I was dealing with an insurance payout and wouldn't need financing. 

[DadJokes]

I've never heard of an energy company going bankrupt so I don't think there's much chance of that here.

Wasn't Enron an energy company?

[Roadrunner53]

I already know the answer that everyone will give me but that is not the answer I am looking for. The answer is "just don't get anything".

Okay, I have a lifetime friend that lives very far away from me. This person is past 65 but still working at a low paying job. I have never known a person who is dislikes so many things. I have sent frozen food items from reputable companies and the person kind of told me in a nice way they didn't really care for it. I have come out and asked what they might like. I have sent different types of prepaid gift cards for restaurants, grocery, retail. I get a thanks but nothing seems to thrill this person. The whole thing is that I would like to give something that gives some joy to this person. I know I could donate to a charity in their name but that doesn't give me joy.

Person likes outdoor planted flowers in the summer so at Christmas time can't do much about that.
Person has a dog and is devoted to it.
Person doesn't like anything for exotic food. Sticks to a very, limited mundane menu.
Person likes a certain brand of coffee. Have sent some of the favorite brand in the past.
Person has a few grandkids and loves them dearly.
Person does like flower arrangements.

I just recently bought an item that this person commented on and said they liked it and have been shopping for something like it. I offered to get it for the person. Finally after days of giving person time to think about it, that idea is now rejected.

Why is trying to GIVE something nice to a person I care for so hard?

Any suggestions? I am down to giving cash and that gives me no real joy.

[DaMa]

That seems to be becoming standard operating procedure.  The salesman wants to talk about the monthly payment, not the price.  Even if you want to pay cash, they want you to finance.  Some of the dealer/manufacturer incentives are only available with financing.  My in-laws ran into this with their last car.  The dealer basically told them that there was going to be a whole bunch of extra "Patriot Act" paperwork to fill out if they wanted to buy it outright.  That was dumb because they had a cashier's check, not a briefcase full of Benjamins.  They gave up and financed it, then paid it off the next week.  It turns out that might have screwed the dealership even more than just letting them pay cash since a lot of the incentives that the dealer gets, and passes on, for financing people are often voided out if the loan gets paid off within 3-6 months.

CarMax seems to be an exception, but that might have been that I let the salesman know up front that I was dealing with an insurance payout and wouldn't need financing.

Same thing happened to me, back in 2011 when I bought my last new car.  The incentive required financing, but they were offering 0% financing.  So I financed half and paid the other half with my air miles credit card. 

[Kris]

I already know the answer that everyone will give me but that is not the answer I am looking for. The answer is "just don't get anything".

Okay, I have a lifetime friend that lives very far away from me. This person is past 65 but still working at a low paying job. I have never known a person who is dislikes so many things. I have sent frozen food items from reputable companies and the person kind of told me in a nice way they didn't really care for it. I have come out and asked what they might like. I have sent different types of prepaid gift cards for restaurants, grocery, retail. I get a thanks but nothing seems to thrill this person. The whole thing is that I would like to give something that gives some joy to this person. I know I could donate to a charity in their name but that doesn't give me joy.

Person likes outdoor planted flowers in the summer so at Christmas time can't do much about that.
Person has a dog and is devoted to it.
Person doesn't like anything for exotic food. Sticks to a very, limited mundane menu.
Person likes a certain brand of coffee. Have sent some of the favorite brand in the past.
Person has a few grandkids and loves them dearly.
Person does like flower arrangements.

I just recently bought an item that this person commented on and said they liked it and have been shopping for something like it. I offered to get it for the person. Finally after days of giving person time to think about it, that idea is now rejected.

Why is trying to GIVE something nice to a person I care for so hard?

Any suggestions? I am down to giving cash and that gives me no real joy.

Sorry, but “nothing” is the only answer I have for you.

Because either this person really wants you to not buy them anything for whatever reason, but isn’t comfortable saying it (which I understand, I have a friend who gives me gifts all the time and I really dislike it)...

Or they are just generally ungrateful! In which case ceasing the gift-giving might teach them some retroactive gratitude.

[SwordGuy]

I already know the answer that everyone will give me but that is not the answer I am looking for. The answer is "just don't get anything".

Well, you got that right.    But in deference to your wishes, I suggest paying for a photographer to take quality photos of the grandkids and framing some of them.

I once went out of my way to buy my dad a nice woodworking tool he didn't have.
Turned out he had bought one a month before and he informed me in no uncertain terms that the one he bought for himself was better.   The way he did it pissed me off so I took him with me to the store and we returned the tool.  I didn't buy him a replacement gift.   I think mom chewed him out later because he didn't pull that stunt again.

[DaMa]

For @Roadrunner53
 
   Person has a few grandkids and loves them dearly.

What about a family pass to a zoo?  My MIL had one and took the grandchildren several times a year.
If it doesn't get used, it's basically a donation.

[Roadrunner53]

Sword Guy, I like the picture idea, however, the kids mother takes them regularly to some studio and they have school pictures on top of the fact that Person is an avid picture taker. So many pictures it makes you head spin! To bad your father had a 'tude. Does ruin the gift giving thing.

DaMa, I will have to look into the zoo idea! I do think there is something in the area. Now you have got me thinking...movie tickets for Person and G-kids?

[Linea_Norway]

I already know the answer that everyone will give me but that is not the answer I am looking for. The answer is "just don't get anything".

Okay, I have a lifetime friend that lives very far away from me. This person is past 65 but still working at a low paying job. I have never known a person who is dislikes so many things. I have sent frozen food items from reputable companies and the person kind of told me in a nice way they didn't really care for it. I have come out and asked what they might like. I have sent different types of prepaid gift cards for restaurants, grocery, retail. I get a thanks but nothing seems to thrill this person. The whole thing is that I would like to give something that gives some joy to this person. I know I could donate to a charity in their name but that doesn't give me joy.

Person likes outdoor planted flowers in the summer so at Christmas time can't do much about that.
Person has a dog and is devoted to it.
Person doesn't like anything for exotic food. Sticks to a very, limited mundane menu.
Person likes a certain brand of coffee. Have sent some of the favorite brand in the past.
Person has a few grandkids and loves them dearly.
Person does like flower arrangements.

I just recently bought an item that this person commented on and said they liked it and have been shopping for something like it. I offered to get it for the person. Finally after days of giving person time to think about it, that idea is now rejected.

Why is trying to GIVE something nice to a person I care for so hard?

Any suggestions? I am down to giving cash and that gives me no real joy.

A nice flower bouquet then.
I am also a person who has everything already. I appreciate getting nice flowers.

[Dicey]

We have an annual travel budget because it's something we actually do need to rein in a bit, since the possibilities with travel are really endless and we have good imaginations. But for individual trips, no - if one trip is pricier than expected, we just go somewhere cheaper for any remaining trips that year.

This seems like a good idea... I'm not sure how to sell it though.

Especially since we've definitely blown any reasonable travel budget this year, but I was running some numbers today and realized that using MAAP (Mustachian Accepted Accounting Practices - ie counting debt/principle payment as savings) we will very likely save more than our AGI this year...

I see cake! Happy Birthday!!

[TVRodriguez]

I already know the answer that everyone will give me but that is not the answer I am looking for. The answer is "just don't get anything".
....
Person likes outdoor planted flowers in the summer so at Christmas time can't do much about that.
Person has a dog and is devoted to it.
Person doesn't like anything for exotic food. Sticks to a very, limited mundane menu.
Person likes a certain brand of coffee. Have sent some of the favorite brand in the past.
Person has a few grandkids and loves them dearly.
Person does like flower arrangements.

I just recently bought an item that this person commented on and said they liked it and have been shopping for something like it. I offered to get it for the person. Finally after days of giving person time to think about it, that idea is now rejected.

Why is trying to GIVE something nice to a person I care for so hard?

Any suggestions? I am down to giving cash and that gives me no real joy.

You already know that this person likes coffee and flowers--why not send those?

Another alternative:  A handwritten card from you, saying how much this person means to you.  Perhaps sent at the same time as a flower arrangement is sent so that they arrive close together. 

I recently received such a card from an old friend, and I was incredibly touched, especially since it was not tied to any holiday or birthday at all.  Just came in the mail on a regular day, a card saying how something I told her years ago changed her perspective on life (!!!!) and affected her decisions from that day.  I hardly imagined that.  One never imagines one will actually be inspiring.  If you could give your friend something like this, it could bring both of you joy.

[Dicey]

I already know the answer that everyone will give me but that is not the answer I am looking for. The answer is "just don't get anything".

Okay, I have a lifetime friend that lives very far away from me. This person is past 65 but still working at a low paying job. I have never known a person who is dislikes so many things. I have sent frozen food items from reputable companies and the person kind of told me in a nice way they didn't really care for it. I have come out and asked what they might like. I have sent different types of prepaid gift cards for restaurants, grocery, retail. I get a thanks but nothing seems to thrill this person. The whole thing is that I would like to give something that gives some joy to this person. I know I could donate to a charity in their name but that doesn't give me joy.

Person likes outdoor planted flowers in the summer so at Christmas time can't do much about that.
Person has a dog and is devoted to it.
Person doesn't like anything for exotic food. Sticks to a very, limited mundane menu.
Person likes a certain brand of coffee. Have sent some of the favorite brand in the past.
Person has a few grandkids and loves them dearly.
Person does like flower arrangements.

I just recently bought an item that this person commented on and said they liked it and have been shopping for something like it. I offered to get it for the person. Finally after days of giving person time to think about it, that idea is now rejected.

Why is trying to GIVE something nice to a person I care for so hard?

Any suggestions? I am down to giving cash and that gives me no real joy.

Sorry, but “nothing” is the only answer I have for you.

Because either this person really wants you to not buy them anything for whatever reason, but isn’t comfortable saying it (which I understand, I have a friend who gives me gifts all the time and I really dislike it)...

Or they are just generally ungrateful! In which case ceasing the gift-giving might teach them some retroactive gratitude.

Give them the gift of words. Write a letter telling them how much they mean to you. Boom, you're done.

[Sugaree]

I already know the answer that everyone will give me but that is not the answer I am looking for. The answer is "just don't get anything".
....
Person likes outdoor planted flowers in the summer so at Christmas time can't do much about that.
Person has a dog and is devoted to it.
Person doesn't like anything for exotic food. Sticks to a very, limited mundane menu.
Person likes a certain brand of coffee. Have sent some of the favorite brand in the past.
Person has a few grandkids and loves them dearly.
Person does like flower arrangements.

I just recently bought an item that this person commented on and said they liked it and have been shopping for something like it. I offered to get it for the person. Finally after days of giving person time to think about it, that idea is now rejected.

Why is trying to GIVE something nice to a person I care for so hard?

Any suggestions? I am down to giving cash and that gives me no real joy.

You already know that this person likes coffee and flowers--why not send those?

Are you crafty?  Could you create a coffee bouquet kind of like those candy bouquets that are popular around Valentine's Day?

[Ladychips]

RR53, I like the answers you've been given.  The only suggestion I have is an amaryllis.  Indoors they bloom at Christmas time.  And it will keep blooming every year.  Depending on the person's zone, they may be able to plant it outside and it bloom in the spring.  They are super low maintenance and super pretty.  Good luck!

[Roadrunner53]

I have no children, no parents and no other relative to 'give' gifts to. I like to shower some gifts on my friend and normally like to give things that are useful. Food was, what I thought a good gift. You get it, you eat it and it is gone. You don't have to figure out where to put a doo dad. I plan on flowers and coffee but I also like to give a bit more. Person seems to like some things I have given. Kitchen stuff is of no interest. No new gadgets, pans, utensils. No Instant pots, cookbooks, blenders, mixers...

[Alfred J Quack]

I've never heard of an energy company going bankrupt so I don't think there's much chance of that here.

Welcome to the Netherlands:

Trianel - December 2012
Orro - December 2012
EnergieFlex - October 2018
Robin Energie - Februari 2019

These are not producers but resellers. Still, if they go bankrupt, your money is gone.

Wasn't Enron also an energy producer?

[Fomerly known as something]

I already know the answer that everyone will give me but that is not the answer I am looking for. The answer is "just don't get anything".

Okay, I have a lifetime friend that lives very far away from me. This person is past 65 but still working at a low paying job. I have never known a person who is dislikes so many things. I have sent frozen food items from reputable companies and the person kind of told me in a nice way they didn't really care for it. I have come out and asked what they might like. I have sent different types of prepaid gift cards for restaurants, grocery, retail. I get a thanks but nothing seems to thrill this person. The whole thing is that I would like to give something that gives some joy to this person. I know I could donate to a charity in their name but that doesn't give me joy.

Person likes outdoor planted flowers in the summer so at Christmas time can't do much about that.
Person has a dog and is devoted to it.
Person doesn't like anything for exotic food. Sticks to a very, limited mundane menu.
Person likes a certain brand of coffee. Have sent some of the favorite brand in the past.
Person has a few grandkids and loves them dearly.
Person does like flower arrangements.

I just recently bought an item that this person commented on and said they liked it and have been shopping for something like it. I offered to get it for the person. Finally after days of giving person time to think about it, that idea is now rejected.

Why is trying to GIVE something nice to a person I care for so hard?

Any suggestions? I am down to giving cash and that gives me no real joy.

Does person live near their grandkids? A grandparents pass to a zoo or children's museum?  (pass gets grandparent and kids in for a year)

[Zikoris]

I already know the answer that everyone will give me but that is not the answer I am looking for. The answer is "just don't get anything".

Okay, I have a lifetime friend that lives very far away from me. This person is past 65 but still working at a low paying job. I have never known a person who is dislikes so many things. I have sent frozen food items from reputable companies and the person kind of told me in a nice way they didn't really care for it. I have come out and asked what they might like. I have sent different types of prepaid gift cards for restaurants, grocery, retail. I get a thanks but nothing seems to thrill this person. The whole thing is that I would like to give something that gives some joy to this person. I know I could donate to a charity in their name but that doesn't give me joy.

Person likes outdoor planted flowers in the summer so at Christmas time can't do much about that.
Person has a dog and is devoted to it.
Person doesn't like anything for exotic food. Sticks to a very, limited mundane menu.
Person likes a certain brand of coffee. Have sent some of the favorite brand in the past.
Person has a few grandkids and loves them dearly.
Person does like flower arrangements.

I just recently bought an item that this person commented on and said they liked it and have been shopping for something like it. I offered to get it for the person. Finally after days of giving person time to think about it, that idea is now rejected.

Why is trying to GIVE something nice to a person I care for so hard?

Any suggestions? I am down to giving cash and that gives me no real joy.

I would seriously ask yourself, does this person even WANT you to give them gifts? A lot of people just don't like gifts. I'm one of them for the most part. I'm very minimalist and working towards the zero waste ideal, so almost nothing a person could give me would actually be wanted, so I really prefer for people to just not get me things at all. The only exceptions are things like gift cards for digital purchases (video games), looseleaf herbal tea, maybe some other edible things, and actually taking me shopping for an item I need (for example, my mom once got me a kick-ass universal power converter/charger that's been on every trip I've taken since).

[frugalnacho]

I'm fucking sick of my mom buying me gifts.  Every year it's the same thing, what do you want for christmas?  Nothing mom! I am financially stable! If I want any material items in the gift price range I will just go buy them because I have hundreds of thousands of dollars and can afford my own socks! If I don't own something it's because I don't want it! Stop wasting your money on things I have to throw out later! If you really insist, why don't you do something nice like invite us over for dinner? Or come hang out with your grandchild?

Every year I still get some kind of gift.  At least at this point it's a gift card to a restaurant or something.  Even then it's like you took $50 that would be accepted literally anywhere in the world and exchanged it for a $50 card that is only redeemable at texas roadhouse.  Thanks?