Overheard on Facebook

[SwordGuy]

So Facebook told us tonight that the COVID vaccines will cause sterility in women.  And the late-breaking in the article they threw in men, too. So, for all those listening, my DW’s crackpot Facebook friend from high school wants you all to know that you’ll go sterile if you get the COVID vaccination.

Maybe it'll be considered as an alternative for vasectomies? :P

I’m curious how they “figured this out” considering the vaccine presumably hasn’t been on the market long enough to collect long term data such as impact on fertility? Maybe the snake oil, oh sorry, essential oil, told them?

The subset of people who believe these conspiracy theories are a fact-resistant sub-species, in both senses of the phrase..

[Nicholas Carter]

On a Fb group I follow, someone ask about what weird NYE traditions we have
Someone commented they start the new year getting rid of all the consumable they have around the house and opening up new packages on Jan 1st. !!!
The idea of someone throwing out their dishsoap for absolutely no reason but a sort of "I felt like it" it's absolutely mind-boggling to me

This tradition is the fragmented remnant of an old religious ritual.

[ducky19]

So Facebook told us tonight that the COVID vaccines will cause sterility in women.  And the late-breaking in the article they threw in men, too. So, for all those listening, my DW’s crackpot Facebook friend from high school wants you all to know that you’ll go sterile if you get the COVID vaccination.

Maybe it'll be considered as an alternative for vasectomies? :P

I’m curious how they “figured this out” considering the vaccine presumably hasn’t been on the market long enough to collect long term data such as impact on fertility? Maybe the snake oil, oh sorry, essential oil, told them?

Meh, I've had my kids. I got the snip and DW had a hysterectomy, so I think we'll both get over it. Maybe this is all part of the plot by the Chinese to depopulate the US and stunt our birth rate to mirror what they did with their "one child" policy... It's all starting to make sense!  /s

[Taran Wanderer]

So Facebook told us tonight that the COVID vaccines will cause sterility in women.  And the late-breaking in the article they threw in men, too. So, for all those listening, my DW’s crackpot Facebook friend from high school wants you all to know that you’ll go sterile if you get the COVID vaccination.

Maybe it'll be considered as an alternative for vasectomies? :P

I’m curious how they “figured this out” considering the vaccine presumably hasn’t been on the market long enough to collect long term data such as impact on fertility? Maybe the snake oil, oh sorry, essential oil, told them?

Meh, I've had my kids. I got the snip and DW had a hysterectomy, so I think we'll both get over it. Maybe this is all part of the plot by the Chinese to depopulate the US and stunt our birth rate to mirror what they did with their "one child" policy... It's all starting to make sense!  /s

 Oh, thank goodness!  We really don’t need any more kids...

[SwordGuy]

So Facebook told us tonight that the COVID vaccines will cause sterility in women.  And the late-breaking in the article they threw in men, too. So, for all those listening, my DW’s crackpot Facebook friend from high school wants you all to know that you’ll go sterile if you get the COVID vaccination.

Maybe it'll be considered as an alternative for vasectomies? :P

I’m curious how they “figured this out” considering the vaccine presumably hasn’t been on the market long enough to collect long term data such as impact on fertility? Maybe the snake oil, oh sorry, essential oil, told them?

Meh, I've had my kids. I got the snip and DW had a hysterectomy, so I think we'll both get over it. Maybe this is all part of the plot by the Chinese to depopulate the US and stunt our birth rate to mirror what they did with their "one child" policy... It's all starting to make sense!  /s

 Oh, thank goodness!  We really don’t need any more kids...

That comment could be taken two different ways, one of which DW's husband might not like as much as the other...

[dividend]

Now, I spent a face-punch-worthy amount on groceries/dining out in the last year, but this amazed even me.

Thanks to a very helpful summary provided by my credit card company I was able to calculate that I spent $847.33 at Chipotle in 2020.

Well, that and all the replies indicating that most of my Facebook friends don't have any clue how much they spent until they get their handy CC summaries. 

[marion10]

Old co-worker of mine posted her daughter’s prom pictures- and I realized that she was in two different dresses- one for dinner before and one for the prom. I guess it’s a continuation of the two wedding dress phenomenon I’ve been seeing.

[AMandM]

Old co-worker of mine posted her daughter’s prom pictures- and I realized that she was in two different dresses- one for dinner before and one for the prom. I guess it’s a continuation of the two wedding dress phenomenon I’ve been seeing.

Maybe she missed last year's prom due to covid, so she's wearing last year's dress and this year's dress. Because you couldn't just wear last year's unused dress to this year's prom.

[Dicey]

Old co-worker of mine posted her daughter’s prom pictures- and I realized that she was in two different dresses- one for dinner before and one for the prom. I guess it’s a continuation of the two wedding dress phenomenon I’ve been seeing.

Maybe she missed last year's prom due to covid, so she's wearing last year's dress and this year's dress. Because you couldn't just wear last year's unused dress to this year's prom.

What a pain in the ass to change dresses! Does that mean different shoes, handbag, hair and makeup? Did she hsul it around with her or go home between dinner and the dance?

[NumberJohnny5]

Old co-worker of mine posted her daughter’s prom pictures- and I realized that she was in two different dresses- one for dinner before and one for the prom. I guess it’s a continuation of the two wedding dress phenomenon I’ve been seeing.

When I see crazy things like this, I try to imagine...in what scenario would it make sense? Is this scenario the one that makes sense, or did someone else see it, think "oh, that's a thing now, I'll do it too!" and eventually no one knows why we do this stupid thing other than "just because."

It'd make sense if they're combining photos from two events. Last year's prom was cancelled, but they still took photos with the dress (maybe in the early days when things were just starting to get locked down, they decided to quickly get some photos at a restaurant in case prom got cancelled; or maybe the photos were taken later when things opened up a bit...at a restaurant table is one of the few places where you could be at in public with your mask off). The next year (we have to assume the prior year photos were for junior prom) there's a new dress (fair enough, maybe she didn't fit in it, wasn't her style anymore, any number of reasons can actually make sense). New photos. Both sets are posted.

Someone sees this, goes "oh, we're doing two dresses for prom now" and the prom industry squeals with glee.

[Weisass]

One of the things that I have been noticing: folks buying these insane prom dresses JUST FOR PICTURES and then trying to resell them on fb marketplace. One posting recently listed the dress as never worn, and the seller was WEARING THE DRESS IN THE PICTURE. What IS THE POINT of buying a dress for a photo and not even going to prom?

[Sugaree]

One of the things that I have been noticing: folks buying these insane prom dresses JUST FOR PICTURES and then trying to resell them on fb marketplace. One posting recently listed the dress as never worn, and the seller was WEARING THE DRESS IN THE PICTURE. What IS THE POINT of buying a dress for a photo and not even going to prom?

I've seen that a bit this year where the dresses were bought in Jan/Feb of 2020 and then everything shut down and proms were cancelled so the dresses never got to be worn.

[Taran Wanderer]

Old co-worker of mine posted her daughter’s prom pictures- and I realized that she was in two different dresses- one for dinner before and one for the prom. I guess it’s a continuation of the two wedding dress phenomenon I’ve been seeing.

When I see crazy things like this, I try to imagine...in what scenario would it make sense? Is this scenario the one that makes sense, or did someone else see it, think "oh, that's a thing now, I'll do it too!" and eventually no one knows why we do this stupid thing other than "just because."

It'd make sense if they're combining photos from two events. Last year's prom was cancelled, but they still took photos with the dress (maybe in the early days when things were just starting to get locked down, they decided to quickly get some photos at a restaurant in case prom got cancelled; or maybe the photos were taken later when things opened up a bit...at a restaurant table is one of the few places where you could be at in public with your mask off). The next year (we have to assume the prior year photos were for junior prom) there's a new dress (fair enough, maybe she didn't fit in it, wasn't her style anymore, any number of reasons can actually make sense). New photos. Both sets are posted.

Someone sees this, goes "oh, we're doing two dresses for prom now" and the prom industry squeals with glee.

My prom date could have used a second dress.  It would have come in handy after I spilled sparkling apple juice on the first one...

[habanero]

My prom date could have used a second dress.  It would have come in handy after I spilled sparkling apple juice on the first one...

Or a date who could hold his liqour sparkling apple juice.

[gooki]

So Facebook told us tonight that the COVID vaccines will cause sterility in women.  And the late-breaking in the article they threw in men, too. So, for all those listening, my DW’s crackpot Facebook friend from high school wants you all to know that you’ll go sterile if you get the COVID vaccination.

Maybe it'll be considered as an alternative for vasectomies? :P

I’m curious how they “figured this out” considering the vaccine presumably hasn’t been on the market long enough to collect long term data such as impact on fertility? Maybe the snake oil, oh sorry, essential oil, told them?

That's how they know it's true. No one who's had the vaccine has gotten pregnant and given birth. So the natural conclusion is it must make you sterile.

[Zaga]

So Facebook told us tonight that the COVID vaccines will cause sterility in women.  And the late-breaking in the article they threw in men, too. So, for all those listening, my DW’s crackpot Facebook friend from high school wants you all to know that you’ll go sterile if you get the COVID vaccination.

Maybe it'll be considered as an alternative for vasectomies? :P

I’m curious how they “figured this out” considering the vaccine presumably hasn’t been on the market long enough to collect long term data such as impact on fertility? Maybe the snake oil, oh sorry, essential oil, told them?

That's how they know it's true. No one who's had the vaccine has gotten pregnant and given birth. So the natural conclusion is it must make you sterile.

Oh no!  You mean me (with no uterus) and my DH (vasectomy) won't have kids?!  The horror.

[RetiredAt63]

So Facebook told us tonight that the COVID vaccines will cause sterility in women.  And the late-breaking in the article they threw in men, too. So, for all those listening, my DW’s crackpot Facebook friend from high school wants you all to know that you’ll go sterile if you get the COVID vaccination.

Maybe it'll be considered as an alternative for vasectomies? :P

I’m curious how they “figured this out” considering the vaccine presumably hasn’t been on the market long enough to collect long term data such as impact on fertility? Maybe the snake oil, oh sorry, essential oil, told them?

That's how they know it's true. No one who's had the vaccine has gotten pregnant and given birth. So the natural conclusion is it must make you sterile.

Oh no!  You mean me (with no uterus) and my DH (vasectomy) won't have kids?!  The horror.

Latest I've heard is that one of the side effects of actual Covid infections is ED. Covid can cause major damage to blood vessels after all.  Best argument I've heard for non-vaccinated people to get vaccinated if they are reluctant.   ;-)

[Sibley]

So Facebook told us tonight that the COVID vaccines will cause sterility in women.  And the late-breaking in the article they threw in men, too. So, for all those listening, my DW’s crackpot Facebook friend from high school wants you all to know that you’ll go sterile if you get the COVID vaccination.

Maybe it'll be considered as an alternative for vasectomies? :P

I’m curious how they “figured this out” considering the vaccine presumably hasn’t been on the market long enough to collect long term data such as impact on fertility? Maybe the snake oil, oh sorry, essential oil, told them?

That's how they know it's true. No one who's had the vaccine has gotten pregnant and given birth. So the natural conclusion is it must make you sterile.

Oh no!  You mean me (with no uterus) and my DH (vasectomy) won't have kids?!  The horror.

Latest I've heard is that one of the side effects of actual Covid infections is ED. Covid can cause major damage to blood vessels after all.  Best argument I've heard for non-vaccinated people to get vaccinated if they are reluctant.   ;-)

No, you've got that backwards. We don't WANT that section of the population reproducing.

[dragoncar]

So Facebook told us tonight that the COVID vaccines will cause sterility in women.  And the late-breaking in the article they threw in men, too. So, for all those listening, my DW’s crackpot Facebook friend from high school wants you all to know that you’ll go sterile if you get the COVID vaccination.

Maybe it'll be considered as an alternative for vasectomies? :P

I’m curious how they “figured this out” considering the vaccine presumably hasn’t been on the market long enough to collect long term data such as impact on fertility? Maybe the snake oil, oh sorry, essential oil, told them?

That's how they know it's true. No one who's had the vaccine has gotten pregnant and given birth. So the natural conclusion is it must make you sterile.

I know (hope) this is satire, but even the original trial had women get pregnant in the middle of the trial, which was a helpful datapoint for pregnant women considering vaccine effects later on

[Evildunk99]

Entertaining story!

Roughly 10 years ago I graduated college and found a job in the same area as my school, allowing me to rent a room with two of my close friends.  About three months into that lease, friend 1 asked if a guy we all knew could stay with us for a few weeks as his living circumstances were in flux.  We reluctantly agreed to it as we were young and didn't properly weigh the full downside to this agreement.  Shortly after the new guy moved into the basement of the house, he overstepped his boundaries, staying well past the few weeks, never chipped in for anything, and had some shady people visiting which angered everyone enough to break the lease as soon as it expired 9 months later. 

Fast forward to last week...

In catching up with these friends for a reunion, we notice that the basement dweller is working as a bus boy at the restaurant we are at.  He came over to say hi to us and we briefly shared life updates (resentment was long gone 10 years after our living arrangement).  As soon as he resumed his duties at the restaurant, we thought it would be interesting to check his facebook page to find out some more details in terms of what he's been up to. 

After living with us, he started to make a lot of money dealing drugs and had all kinds of flashy pictures of his new found money.  Then he eventually was caught and served time in jail.  After he gets out, he shares with the world that he won a Draft Kings event that paid him $100k in winnings.  Naturally, he buys a new mercedes, some expensive jewelry, clothes, etc. He also started to gain a following on social media and was riding high.  He also shares that he had a child at this point.  Shortly after that, he crashes the $70k mercedes and of course did not buy insurance on it.  The repair total is devastating and he had to sell it for salvage value (nearly scrap).  At this point he is essentially close to broke again, and cannot pay for basic expenses anymore, as all of his gambling winnings were spent almost instantly. 

Another couple years go by, and he has all kinds of posts about cryptocurrency which he gambled on to ride the recent wave to new financial heights once again! He resumes his social media posts of more flashy expenses.  Within the past couple weeks, crypto crashed -30% or so... and of course... he gets crushed by the downturn.

His most recent post was very sad.  He shares his remorse for all of the frivolous/dumb decisions in his life, and encouraged all of his friends and followers to be smart with their life choices.  He also encourages them to save/invest their money instead of pissing it away. 

My original friend from the beginning of the story received a text shortly after seeing us at the restaurant.  He asked if he could crash for a little while at his place, as he did not know that he had to pay taxes on his $100k gambling winnings, or the crypto profit that he had made (aside from the -30% drop).  He is close to $50k in tax debt now.  My friend declined to let him stay at his place.

[DadJokes]

That is quite the roller coaster of a story. I hope the guy is able to take his own advice and figure things out.

[SwordGuy]

That is quite the roller coaster of a story. I hope the guy is able to take his own advice and figure things out.

I'm sure he will until the good times come along again.  Then he'll probably forget.

[JAYSLOL]

Noticed a couple dumb posts lately so here they are

- Random person posted on our towns local “Rant and Rave” Facebook page with a photo of at least four bottles of soda, and an armload of junk food with the caption ranting about how this particular convenience store they visit doesn’t offer bags and they “frequently” have to make two trips to their car to load their junk food.  There’s just so much of that making me want to slam my head against a wall. 

- A different person posted a question on a local buy and sell Facebook page asking if anyone has a used Landrover for sale.  They said they “need” a Landrover because they transport a disabled relative so they need room for the wheelchair, and they need 4WD because anything else won’t make it up their driveway.  Basically every response said stay away from Landrover and get a Toyota or Honda SUV, but they insisted it it had to be a Landrover, nothing else would make it up their driveway.  lol.  I doubt that.  I’ve towed a 14’ fishing boat with my 2wd Tercel up rough, unmaintained mountain forestry roads covered in ice and snow to get to lakes and never needed a Landrover to do it. 

[Sibley]

Rant and rave page. I like that. It's frequently accurate.

Recently, lots of posts on my town's FB page (unofficial page) revolve around the fast food chain stores. Arby's ran out of roast beef! Popeye's was really slow! Something was closed due to lack of staff! OMG! How terrible, we're going to die!!!!

Housing in my area has kitchens. It's not NYC where you'll have a mini fridge and a hot plate.

There was also a bunch of posts about people being lazy and not going back to work because of the extra unemployment. My state is stopping that I guess, so people were gloating that the "lazy bums" would have to go back to work. Um, I'm really hoping many of those "lazy bums" were able to get training and get a better job. It will be interesting to see what happens in a month or so.

[DadJokes]

Rant and rave page. I like that. It's frequently accurate.

Recently, lots of posts on my town's FB page (unofficial page) revolve around the fast food chain stores. Arby's ran out of roast beef! Popeye's was really slow! Something was closed due to lack of staff! OMG! How terrible, we're going to die!!!!

Housing in my area has kitchens. It's not NYC where you'll have a mini fridge and a hot plate.

There was also a bunch of posts about people being lazy and not going back to work because of the extra unemployment. My state is stopping that I guess, so people were gloating that the "lazy bums" would have to go back to work. Um, I'm really hoping many of those "lazy bums" were able to get training and get a better job. It will be interesting to see what happens in a month or so.

I've seen similar complaints on my town's "hip" Facebook page (all the FB pages for towns around here are "Hip [Town Name]" - is that universal?). People complain that service is slow or nonexistent, and business owners complain that they can't find decent employees due to unemployment benefits.

[Proud Foot]

Rant and rave page. I like that. It's frequently accurate.

Recently, lots of posts on my town's FB page (unofficial page) revolve around the fast food chain stores. Arby's ran out of roast beef! Popeye's was really slow! Something was closed due to lack of staff! OMG! How terrible, we're going to die!!!!

Housing in my area has kitchens. It's not NYC where you'll have a mini fridge and a hot plate.

There was also a bunch of posts about people being lazy and not going back to work because of the extra unemployment. My state is stopping that I guess, so people were gloating that the "lazy bums" would have to go back to work. Um, I'm really hoping many of those "lazy bums" were able to get training and get a better job. It will be interesting to see what happens in a month or so.

I've seen similar complaints on my town's "hip" Facebook page (all the FB pages for towns around here are "Hip [Town Name]" - is that universal?). People complain that service is slow or nonexistent, and business owners complain that they can't find decent employees due to unemployment benefits.

I see the same things in my state as well. However we are currently at a lower unemployment rate than we were pre-pandemic so it isn't so much lack of available workers due to unemployment benefits. People are pivoting out of those low wage jobs and finding different jobs for better pay.

[Sibley]

Rant and rave page. I like that. It's frequently accurate.

Recently, lots of posts on my town's FB page (unofficial page) revolve around the fast food chain stores. Arby's ran out of roast beef! Popeye's was really slow! Something was closed due to lack of staff! OMG! How terrible, we're going to die!!!!

Housing in my area has kitchens. It's not NYC where you'll have a mini fridge and a hot plate.

There was also a bunch of posts about people being lazy and not going back to work because of the extra unemployment. My state is stopping that I guess, so people were gloating that the "lazy bums" would have to go back to work. Um, I'm really hoping many of those "lazy bums" were able to get training and get a better job. It will be interesting to see what happens in a month or so.

I've seen similar complaints on my town's "hip" Facebook page (all the FB pages for towns around here are "Hip [Town Name]" - is that universal?). People complain that service is slow or nonexistent, and business owners complain that they can't find decent employees due to unemployment benefits.

I see the same things in my state as well. However we are currently at a lower unemployment rate than we were pre-pandemic so it isn't so much lack of available workers due to unemployment benefits. People are pivoting out of those low wage jobs and finding different jobs for better pay.

I'm cool with that. It might convince certain people in this country to act more like decent human beings. Wonder how much affordable, quality child care would free parents to work? Or maybe some idiots could be reminded that immigrants actually aren't the devil.

[PDXTabs]

Rant and rave page. I like that. It's frequently accurate.

Recently, lots of posts on my town's FB page (unofficial page) revolve around the fast food chain stores. Arby's ran out of roast beef! Popeye's was really slow! Something was closed due to lack of staff! OMG! How terrible, we're going to die!!!!

Housing in my area has kitchens. It's not NYC where you'll have a mini fridge and a hot plate.

There was also a bunch of posts about people being lazy and not going back to work because of the extra unemployment. My state is stopping that I guess, so people were gloating that the "lazy bums" would have to go back to work. Um, I'm really hoping many of those "lazy bums" were able to get training and get a better job. It will be interesting to see what happens in a month or so.

I'm not going to lie. If I was on enhanced unemployment I'd milk that until the very end. $23.70/hr to sit on my ass? Don't mind if I do.

[Sugaree]

Rant and rave page. I like that. It's frequently accurate.

Recently, lots of posts on my town's FB page (unofficial page) revolve around the fast food chain stores. Arby's ran out of roast beef! Popeye's was really slow! Something was closed due to lack of staff! OMG! How terrible, we're going to die!!!!

Housing in my area has kitchens. It's not NYC where you'll have a mini fridge and a hot plate.

There was also a bunch of posts about people being lazy and not going back to work because of the extra unemployment. My state is stopping that I guess, so people were gloating that the "lazy bums" would have to go back to work. Um, I'm really hoping many of those "lazy bums" were able to get training and get a better job. It will be interesting to see what happens in a month or so.

I'm so disgusted  by these people.  One woman went so far as to creating a list of everywhere that was hiring.  As it turned out, a majority of the list were hiring minimum wage for very, very few hours a week.  One restaurant was looking for someone to work ~12 hours a week with no guaranteed set schedule.  It's hard to get multiple jobs without a set schedule and hard to make ends meet working 12 hours a week.

[zolotiyeruki]

Rant and rave page. I like that. It's frequently accurate.

Recently, lots of posts on my town's FB page (unofficial page) revolve around the fast food chain stores. Arby's ran out of roast beef! Popeye's was really slow! Something was closed due to lack of staff! OMG! How terrible, we're going to die!!!!

Housing in my area has kitchens. It's not NYC where you'll have a mini fridge and a hot plate.

There was also a bunch of posts about people being lazy and not going back to work because of the extra unemployment. My state is stopping that I guess, so people were gloating that the "lazy bums" would have to go back to work. Um, I'm really hoping many of those "lazy bums" were able to get training and get a better job. It will be interesting to see what happens in a month or so.

I'm so disgusted  by these people.  One woman went so far as to creating a list of everywhere that was hiring.  As it turned out, a majority of the list were hiring minimum wage for very, very few hours a week.  One restaurant was looking for someone to work ~12 hours a week with no guaranteed set schedule.  It's hard to get multiple jobs without a set schedule and hard to make ends meet working 12 hours a week.

As a counterpoint anecdote, the company I work for is hiring people for up to full-time work, with flexible hours, paying more than 1.5x minimum wage, in a fairly LCOL area, and is having trouble finding people.  One of our suppliers, in the same town, is in a similar situation.  No prior skills needed, just show up, get trained, and work.  You can say "well, just offer more money" all you want, but the expanded unemployment benefits are having a very real impact.  When Uncle Sam is offering folks $15/hour (tax-free!) to not work, one should not be surprised that a significant number of people take him up on that offer.

[SwordGuy]

paying more than 1.5x minimum wage, in a fairly LCOL area, and is having trouble finding people.  ...  When Uncle Sam is offering folks $15/hour (tax-free!) to not work, one should not be surprised that a significant number of people take him up on that offer.

Well, let's see.   $7.25 federal minimum wage times 1.5 = 10.87 an hour.    That's poverty wages. 

NO ONE should be forced into a situation where they work for a decent living but are paid poverty wages instead.    The fact that our country has a term for it, "Working Poor", and a host of our fellow citizens think that's perfectly acceptable -- in fact will rail against ending that abomination of a situation -- is a damning indictment of our culture.

Offer wages that provide a decent living and decent working conditions (i.e., proper safety precautions, health insurance, and fire jackasses in management for a start) and then your company has a fair reason to complain about lazy folks.

I wouldn't work for those wages unless I damn well had to.    And I wouldn't blame someone in those shoes who followed the old saying, "They pretend to pay me so I pretend to work."

[Jenny Wren]

I saw a FB post declaring that minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's for kids that want to work fast food to earn money - if you're an adult working those jobs then you are a loser. Basically blaming low skill workers if they need to take a fast food job. Even the "teen jobs should pay minimum wage argument" doesn't hold water. These same people love to go on about how kids should work their way through college. Working the fed minimum of $7.25 for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year is $14, 500 less taxes. Average in-state tuition is $9,000, before room, board, books, and fees. How can they even pay their way through college if the jobs available to them don't pay a sufficient wage in order to do so?

The same people that complain about expanded unemployment are usually the same ones that like to share urban legends about welfare queens. (Having actually been on welfare and unemployment  in the past, it's almost laughable how these people don't even understand how these programs actually work...)

Living somewhere in the US with few NOW HIRING signs, a near $14 minimum wage, and expanded state Medicaid for health insurance,  it was astounding to me to learn that there are parts of this country that provide what amounts to sweat shop wages in a supposedly first world nation. Anecdata alert: I've traveled the US,and  the cost of goods are no more expensive here than they are in my Aunt's podunk Iowa town ($7.25/hr) or my SIL's Georgia city ($5.15/hr - how is this legal??!?). Housing costs are higher here for a plethora of reasons not related to minimum wage.

[zolotiyeruki]

I saw a FB post declaring that minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's for kids that want to work fast food to earn money - if you're an adult working those jobs then you are a loser. Basically blaming low skill workers if they need to take a fast food job. Even the "teen jobs should pay minimum wage argument" doesn't hold water. These same people love to go on about how kids should work their way through college. Working the fed minimum of $7.25 for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year is $14, 500 less taxes. Average in-state tuition is $9,000, before room, board, books, and fees. How can they even pay their way through college if the jobs available to them don't pay a sufficient wage in order to do so?

The same people that complain about expanded unemployment are usually the same ones that like to share urban legends about welfare queens. (Having actually been on welfare and unemployment  in the past, it's almost laughable how these people don't even understand how these programs actually work...)

Living somewhere in the US with few NOW HIRING signs, a near $14 minimum wage, and expanded state Medicaid for health insurance,  it was astounding to me to learn that there are parts of this country that provide what amounts to sweat shop wages in a supposedly first world nation. Anecdata alert: I've traveled the US,and  the cost of goods are no more expensive here than they are in my Aunt's podunk Iowa town ($7.25/hr) or my SIL's Georgia city ($5.15/hr - how is this legal??!?). Housing costs are higher here for a plethora of reasons not related to minimum wage.

It's worth pointing out that beyond the current unemployment benefits, there is a significant disincentive to earn above a certain threshold, due to the broad range of social welfare and tax benefits given to low-earners, and the various phase-outs of those programs.

[Sibley]

I saw a FB post declaring that minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's for kids that want to work fast food to earn money - if you're an adult working those jobs then you are a loser. Basically blaming low skill workers if they need to take a fast food job. Even the "teen jobs should pay minimum wage argument" doesn't hold water. These same people love to go on about how kids should work their way through college. Working the fed minimum of $7.25 for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year is $14, 500 less taxes. Average in-state tuition is $9,000, before room, board, books, and fees. How can they even pay their way through college if the jobs available to them don't pay a sufficient wage in order to do so?

The same people that complain about expanded unemployment are usually the same ones that like to share urban legends about welfare queens. (Having actually been on welfare and unemployment  in the past, it's almost laughable how these people don't even understand how these programs actually work...)

Living somewhere in the US with few NOW HIRING signs, a near $14 minimum wage, and expanded state Medicaid for health insurance,  it was astounding to me to learn that there are parts of this country that provide what amounts to sweat shop wages in a supposedly first world nation. Anecdata alert: I've traveled the US,and  the cost of goods are no more expensive here than they are in my Aunt's podunk Iowa town ($7.25/hr) or my SIL's Georgia city ($5.15/hr - how is this legal??!?). Housing costs are higher here for a plethora of reasons not related to minimum wage.

It's worth pointing out that beyond the current unemployment benefits, there is a significant disincentive to earn above a certain threshold, due to the broad range of social welfare and tax benefits given to low-earners, and the various phase-outs of those programs.

What that tells me is that we need to train and educate people so that they can get good jobs that lift them over the point where they need to worry about losing those social welfare and tax benefits.

[SwordGuy]

I saw a FB post declaring that minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's for kids that want to work fast food to earn money - if you're an adult working those jobs then you are a loser. Basically blaming low skill workers if they need to take a fast food job. Even the "teen jobs should pay minimum wage argument" doesn't hold water. These same people love to go on about how kids should work their way through college. Working the fed minimum of $7.25 for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year is $14, 500 less taxes. Average in-state tuition is $9,000, before room, board, books, and fees. How can they even pay their way through college if the jobs available to them don't pay a sufficient wage in order to do so?

The same people that complain about expanded unemployment are usually the same ones that like to share urban legends about welfare queens. (Having actually been on welfare and unemployment  in the past, it's almost laughable how these people don't even understand how these programs actually work...)

Living somewhere in the US with few NOW HIRING signs, a near $14 minimum wage, and expanded state Medicaid for health insurance,  it was astounding to me to learn that there are parts of this country that provide what amounts to sweat shop wages in a supposedly first world nation. Anecdata alert: I've traveled the US,and  the cost of goods are no more expensive here than they are in my Aunt's podunk Iowa town ($7.25/hr) or my SIL's Georgia city ($5.15/hr - how is this legal??!?). Housing costs are higher here for a plethora of reasons not related to minimum wage.

It's worth pointing out that beyond the current unemployment benefits, there is a significant disincentive to earn above a certain threshold, due to the broad range of social welfare and tax benefits given to low-earners, and the various phase-outs of those programs.

What that tells me is that we need to train and educate people so that they can get good jobs that lift them over the point where they need to worry about losing those social welfare and tax benefits.

This is what it tells me:

1) Benefits should be FAST AND EASY to sign up for and receive and have a fade-out provision instead of a hard cliff.   That way, you're ALWAYS, 100% BETTER OFF when you earn an extra dollar.     Our current system isn't always set up that way.   Getting benefits can be very hard and very slow, and earning an extra dollar can cost you A LOT.

2) ALL jobs should pay decent wages.  EVERY.  SINGLE.   JOB.   If a job needs doing, then the person doing that job FOR A LIVING should receive A DECENT LIVING and NOT POVERTY WAGES.   Period.      There are no "lesser jobs" that only people deserving to live in poverty should have. 

3) The mindset that people should be working poor, i.e., they should work and live in poverty so others can make a profit is DISGUSTING.   It is VILE.    It is SHAMEFUL.    Every single decent American should be disgusted at those who think otherwise.

I'm feeling mellow tonight so I took some care to express that in a mellow, kinder, gentler manner than the topic deserves.

[Taran Wanderer]

I’ve been in multiple states this week, and the prevailing theme is that there are good jobs ($15-$20/hr + benefits) going unfilled in steady, reliable industries. This wasn’t the case prior to Covid-related unemployment benefits. In my own state, where this is also a big problem, people taking unemployment aren’t even required to look for a job until July 31.

If we pay people not to work, it’s totally rational not to work. It’s not rational to continue enhanced unemployment benefits when vaccines and jobs are available.

[gooki]

Well said SwordGuy.

[shelivesthedream]

@SwordGuy I feel like there must be a technological solution to #1. We in the UK have a huge problem with people on urgent need trying to sign on and then there being a weeks long backlog before their case gets looked at, processed and the payments get set up. So these people are supposed to live on air for six weeks? What happens if they're lucky is they have enough credit available to live on debt for those six weeks, getting themselves into a debt spiral that they struggle to pay off.

Surely there are enough "simple cases" that a computer could cross-reference the claim, approve it, set up payments - all within a day or two. And refer anything that needed a human's eyes on. Yes, not everyone can use tech proficiently enough to claim this way, but surely enough people can in this day and age that it would be worth doing.

[MudPuppy]

How dare you suggest making it easier to access dignity!

[Sugaree]

@SwordGuy I feel like there must be a technological solution to #1. We in the UK have a huge problem with people on urgent need trying to sign on and then there being a weeks long backlog before their case gets looked at, processed and the payments get set up. So these people are supposed to live on air for six weeks? What happens if they're lucky is they have enough credit available to live on debt for those six weeks, getting themselves into a debt spiral that they struggle to pay off.

Surely there are enough "simple cases" that a computer could cross-reference the claim, approve it, set up payments - all within a day or two. And refer anything that needed a human's eyes on. Yes, not everyone can use tech proficiently enough to claim this way, but surely enough people can in this day and age that it would be worth doing.

In many states, the outdated and frustrating benefits system is a feature, not a bug.

[shelivesthedream]

This is true for many over here, Sugaree. :( But, much like with UBI, I think there are arguments for streamlining the process on both sides of the political spectrum. One can argue about the best criteria, but both left and right would surely support de-bureaucratising signing on as a good in itself. The left, to make it easier for those on benefits. The right, to reduce government overheads.

Although having briefly worked through a move to a whizz bang shiny new NHS records system that was exactly the fucking same except it took the middle aged women in the admin office with me months to figure out where the new buttons were, I have little confidence in the government's ability to write a good spec and contract it out well.

That admin office was working at a chronic backlog and a lot of the work could have been automated in the system change. Instead of inputting an appointment into the system, getting up a Word template, editing all the fiddly bits, saving it, printing it out, uploading it to the system, and putting it in the post... All to send an appointment letter! Surely it wouldn't have been that hard to make it a few clicks: input appointment into the system, "Generate letter: appointment" (computer autofills correct template for appointment type with correct details and saves it to the patient record), print, post. When your entire job is typing letters like it's the 1930s and 75% of the letters you type could be automated, that would have made a huge difference to the admin workload and therefore patient care.

Excuse me, I'll just tidy this soapbox away...

[Morning Glory]

I saw a FB post declaring that minimum wage isn't supposed to be a living wage, it's for kids that want to work fast food to earn money - if you're an adult working those jobs then you are a loser. Basically blaming low skill workers if they need to take a fast food job. Even the "teen jobs should pay minimum wage argument" doesn't hold water. These same people love to go on about how kids should work their way through college. Working the fed minimum of $7.25 for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year is $14, 500 less taxes. Average in-state tuition is $9,000, before room, board, books, and fees. How can they even pay their way through college if the jobs available to them don't pay a sufficient wage in order to do so?

The same people that complain about expanded unemployment are usually the same ones that like to share urban legends about welfare queens. (Having actually been on welfare and unemployment  in the past, it's almost laughable how these people don't even understand how these programs actually work...)

Living somewhere in the US with few NOW HIRING signs, a near $14 minimum wage, and expanded state Medicaid for health insurance,  it was astounding to me to learn that there are parts of this country that provide what amounts to sweat shop wages in a supposedly first world nation. Anecdata alert: I've traveled the US,and  the cost of goods are no more expensive here than they are in my Aunt's podunk Iowa town ($7.25/hr) or my SIL's Georgia city ($5.15/hr - how is this legal??!?). Housing costs are higher here for a plethora of reasons not related to minimum wage.

It's worth pointing out that beyond the current unemployment benefits, there is a significant disincentive to earn above a certain threshold, due to the broad range of social welfare and tax benefits given to low-earners, and the various phase-outs of those programs.

What that tells me is that we need to train and educate people so that they can get good jobs that lift them over the point where they need to worry about losing those social welfare and tax benefits.

This is what it tells me:

1) Benefits should be FAST AND EASY to sign up for and receive and have a fade-out provision instead of a hard cliff.   That way, you're ALWAYS, 100% BETTER OFF when you earn an extra dollar.     Our current system isn't always set up that way.   Getting benefits can be very hard and very slow, and earning an extra dollar can cost you A LOT.

2) ALL jobs should pay decent wages.  EVERY.  SINGLE.   JOB.   If a job needs doing, then the person doing that job FOR A LIVING should receive A DECENT LIVING and NOT POVERTY WAGES.   Period.      There are no "lesser jobs" that only people deserving to live in poverty should have. 

3) The mindset that people should be working poor, i.e., they should work and live in poverty so others can make a profit is DISGUSTING.   It is VILE.    It is SHAMEFUL.    Every single decent American should be disgusted at those who think otherwise.

I'm feeling mellow tonight so I took some care to express that in a mellow, kinder, gentler manner than the topic deserves.

+1 to all of you!!!

[Morning Glory]

I’ve been in multiple states this week, and the prevailing theme is that there are good jobs ($15-$20/hr + benefits) going unfilled in steady, reliable industries. This wasn’t the case prior to Covid-related unemployment benefits. In my own state, where this is also a big problem, people taking unemployment aren’t even required to look for a job until July 31.

If we pay people not to work, it’s totally rational not to work. It’s not rational to continue enhanced unemployment benefits when vaccines and jobs are available.

In my area there is a childcare shortage. Over $1000/month per kid is common, and most of them are only open 6-6. Those "good" jobs are usually manufacturing or healthcare which are 24 hour operations. I've known plenty of people who had to take lower paying work because they needed something during daycare hours.

 20/hr is 3200/month, so say 2500 after taxes and insurance. A person with just one child would have 1500 left to cover housing, transportation, food, and everything else.

[SwordGuy]

This is true for many over here, Sugaree. :( But, much like with UBI, I think there are arguments for streamlining the process on both sides of the political spectrum. One can argue about the best criteria, but both left and right would surely support de-bureaucratising signing on as a good in itself. The left, to make it easier for those on benefits. The right, to reduce government overheads.

The right's point of view is that these are mostly lazy, undeserving poor and the only proper way to de-bureaucratise is to shut down the program and let those worthless wretches died in the gutter or (better yet!) slave away as a member of the working poor in order to make money for the deserving wealthy.   

[shelivesthedream]

I don't think that's the general view of the right in the UK. I think the general view of the right in the UK is that most people on benefits are lazy undeserving scumbags who keep popping out babies or exaggerating their alleged disability so they can sit around smoking, drinking and watching their cinema-sized plasma screen TVs, but you do get the odd heroic army veteran or widowed mother who has worked her whole life and now fallen on hard times who is thoroughly deserving of limited state support. How wonderful if a faceless computer screen could deliver the necessary moral outrage to the former group and well-earned benefits payment to the latter group in a few clicks, rather than having to underpay actual humans to do it.

[SwordGuy]

I don't think that's the general view of the right in the UK. I think the general view of the right in the UK is that most people on benefits are lazy undeserving scumbags who keep popping out babies or exaggerating their alleged disability so they can sit around smoking, drinking and watching their cinema-sized plasma screen TVs, but you do get the odd heroic army veteran or widowed mother who has worked her whole life and now fallen on hard times who is thoroughly deserving of limited state support. How wonderful if a faceless computer screen could deliver the necessary moral outrage to the former group and well-earned benefits payment to the latter group in a few clicks, rather than having to underpay actual humans to do it.

Well, your conservatives are more enlightened than US ones.   Sadly, Boris Johnson seems to be proof they are moving in Trump's direction, God help you.

[LaineyAZ]

SwordGuy,
I'm so glad you mentioned the "hard cliff" of our benefits system vs. the fade-out of benefits as your earnings increase.

Stephanie Land discusses this in her book "Maid" where, as a single mother of one, she's trying to avoid going over the dollar limit at which point she'd no longer receive medical or housing subsidies.  It was a delicate dance.  She also outlines how burdensome the rules and regulations are for the relative paltry amounts of cash or other help that the government might provide.  And of course eligibility requirements could change with any new elected administration. 

Contrast that with the grifting that occurs at the higher end of the financial spectrum in this country, e.g., corporations with billions in profits who pay no taxes, and how bizarre it is that we continue to focus so much time and taxpayer dollars to micro-manage the lives of the poor. 

[Imma]

This is true for many over here, Sugaree. :( But, much like with UBI, I think there are arguments for streamlining the process on both sides of the political spectrum. One can argue about the best criteria, but both left and right would surely support de-bureaucratising signing on as a good in itself. The left, to make it easier for those on benefits. The right, to reduce government overheads.

Although having briefly worked through a move to a whizz bang shiny new NHS records system that was exactly the fucking same except it took the middle aged women in the admin office with me months to figure out where the new buttons were, I have little confidence in the government's ability to write a good spec and contract it out well.

That admin office was working at a chronic backlog and a lot of the work could have been automated in the system change. Instead of inputting an appointment into the system, getting up a Word template, editing all the fiddly bits, saving it, printing it out, uploading it to the system, and putting it in the post... All to send an appointment letter! Surely it wouldn't have been that hard to make it a few clicks: input appointment into the system, "Generate letter: appointment" (computer autofills correct template for appointment type with correct details and saves it to the patient record), print, post. When your entire job is typing letters like it's the 1930s and 75% of the letters you type could be automated, that would have made a huge difference to the admin workload and therefore patient care.

Excuse me, I'll just tidy this soapbox away...

I have exactly the same experience, about a decade ago. At that point, we sent people on benefits a form on Mondays, they had to fill in how much they had earned the previous period, sign it and return it to us by Friday, and we were only opened from 9 to 1 every day. Some of our clients asked why they could not just set up a web form? It would be quicker and easier and less mistakes would be made - the forms were processed manually and not everyone's handwriting is great, or there'd be typo's. Well, the whole point of it was to make it a hassle for people wanting to claim, so maybe they would stop doing it, so they definitely wouldn't consider setting up an easy web form.

In our town there were issues with the mail, so not everyone always received the forms. If they didn't fill them in, their benefits would be cut. Some people are disabled or seriously ill, so they'd have to pay for bus tickets because they couldn't walk, or would have to re-schedule hospital appointments to hand it in. Many people on benefits have debts and we'd refer them to a debt relief charity. The charity would make them reroute all their mail directly to their office so things wouldn't get lost. But that meant the charity had to send back the form to the person in time and that didn't always happen, and, as I said, mail sometimes got lost in our town.

But the very worst affected category were the working poor. Some people did actually work but weren't able to find a steady fulltime job. They worked all the hours they could get and sometimes that would be 10 hours a week and other weeks 50. Basically they were eternally on benefits, but some weeks their benefits payment was 0. In good weeks, when these people would be able to work enough hours, they would still have to fill in their form, and they'd have to hand it in during office hours. They would have to get time off work to handle the paperwork. In theory if they worked around the corner they could drop in during their breaks, but not everyone gets breaks and many people worked out of time. Those people were punished by the bureaucracy for working. It would have been more rational for them to just quit working eternally, but most of our claimants were hardworking people who believed they'd get a steady job someday if they just proved their worth to their employer - honestly, that rarely happened. Many low wage employers loved that they had an army of workers they could call in when they needed them and send away when they were no longer necessary. But sometimes the work experience from those jobs would land our claimants jobs with reasonable employers.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I’ve been in multiple states this week, and the prevailing theme is that there are good jobs ($15-$20/hr + benefits) going unfilled in steady, reliable industries. This wasn’t the case prior to Covid-related unemployment benefits. In my own state, where this is also a big problem, people taking unemployment aren’t even required to look for a job until July 31.

If we pay people not to work, it’s totally rational not to work. It’s not rational to continue enhanced unemployment benefits when vaccines and jobs are available.

In my area there is a childcare shortage. Over $1000/month per kid is common, and most of them are only open 6-6. Those "good" jobs are usually manufacturing or healthcare which are 24 hour operations. I've known plenty of people who had to take lower paying work because they needed something during daycare hours.

 20/hr is 3200/month, so say 2500 after taxes and insurance. A person with just one child would have 1500 left to cover housing, transportation, food, and everything else.

Yep. We lost a good shelver (pays less than $15/hour, but the benefits are good and it's mostly daytime hours) because she had a new baby and couldn't afford childcare. She did get another job--she is partnered so she was doing to do custodial work at night and her husband would work during the day.

[SwordGuy]

Money makes people evil according to one person I interacted with this week.   Rich people become evil because the money makes them evil.

I countered with money doesn't change people, it just gives them more ability to be who they already are.   
I'll allow that rich people in western capitalist society probably have a higher percentage of sociopaths than the average population because those who want power over others will be more strongly motivated to go make money than folks who are happy with their lives as is.   Sociopaths in a communist state would tend to gravitate to the communist party because that's where the power is.

They aren't buying it.   Money makes you evil.    Just so you know.