Overheard on Facebook

[MgoSam]

I can't imagine how much it costs to insure a teenage driver.

[ketchup]

I can't imagine how much it costs to insure a teenage driver.

I know a very wealthy out of touch person that was surprised when all the insurance quotes for their 16 year old to drive their own brand new BMW were something insane like $1800/mo.  I mean come on.  I don't know exactly what my parents were paying, but I know it was still fairly expensive to add me as a 17 year old driver as secondary on liabilty-only insurance on my dad's then-13-year-old Buick LeSabre.

[SwordGuy]

Um...  The face punch part was wanting an excuse to buy a newer car for themselves...

Just in case you missed it.  :)

[Goldielocks]

This popped up on my FB feed today:

"I'm trying to persuade the teen to get his learners' permit so I can justify looking at new-to-me cars. He's not buying it.
He can walk to school and ride his bike to the bus to go downtown or the movies or whatever, why does he need a car?"

Realistically, knowing how to drive is a valuable skill, even if you don't actually drive much. Said teen is being short sighted there.

I didn't get a learner's permit at first available time. I knew I wasn't ready to drive a car yet. It's a huge responsibility.
I think for a 14 year old or 15 year old to recognize that is a pretty valuable thing.

It also isn't cheap to get one.

I waited maybe a month to get mine. It was definitely cheap. Not even $100, from my memory.

OK- so the actual cost of the permit here is like $8.
But Driver's Ed can run $500-1,000 and teens can't get a license without taking drivers ed. (Adults can just go take the driving test.) Schools no longer offer it, and even 20 years ago it was not typical (in my area) for teens to take it through the school. 

I'm glad I waited until I was 17 to drive instead of 16. I still don't think it is safe for 14 year olds to be driving, as my current state allows. Their brains do not process the magnitude of the responsibility that is a car.

What state requires drivers ed in order to get your DL before age 20 / 21?  That sounds crazy to me.  We have graduated licensing here, but you still are not required to take mandatory (expensive) private lessons.

ETA:  According to the internet *  https://www.verywellfamily.com/driving-age-by-state-2611172
The states with the oldest age requiredfor a restricted licence is 16.5 years.  Restricted licenses let you drive alone, often with a couple of passengers, but restrict night time or have harsher penalties for infractions.

*Because the internet is often wrong....

[Just Joe]

Um...  The face punch part was wanting an excuse to buy a newer car for themselves...

Just in case you missed it.  :)

Maybe the kid knows their parent(s) are lousy with money and is trying to delay their car shopping. Our oldest witnessed a friend lecturing their parent about lousy spending one time. That teen friend is more careful than their parent about money to our surprise. And yeah, we knew that parent has had self-inflicted money woes for twenty years.

[I'm a red panda]

Goldielocks, both Texas and Iowa require an "approved drivers education program". In theory, a less expensive publically available option exists (my husband paid $200 for an in school class). In actuality, it is rarely available. (It was only during 2nd period, so not if you were in any athletic program that had an mandatory class. And only in spring semester.)

[SwordGuy]

Um...  The face punch part was wanting an excuse to buy a newer car for themselves...

Just in case you missed it.  :)

Maybe the kid knows their parent(s) are lousy with money and is trying to delay their car shopping. Our oldest witnessed a friend lecturing their parent about lousy spending one time. That teen friend is more careful than their parent about money to our surprise. And yeah, we knew that parent has had self-inflicted money woes for twenty years.

In which case the mom wanting an excuse for a newer car would be even more face-punch worthy...

If I had posted this on anti-anti-mustachian behavior, then the focus would rightly be on the teen...

[I'm a red panda]

Sword Guy, I agree with you on the favepunch. I was replying to the poster who thought the teen was mistaken to not drive immediately

[Hirondelle]

This popped up on my FB feed today:

"I'm trying to persuade the teen to get his learners' permit so I can justify looking at new-to-me cars. He's not buying it.
He can walk to school and ride his bike to the bus to go downtown or the movies or whatever, why does he need a car?"

Realistically, knowing how to drive is a valuable skill, even if you don't actually drive much. Said teen is being short sighted there.

If it's as cheap as some of the other posters mentinoed here it certainly won't hurt to get one and learn how to drive. However, paying for a learners permit/licence that you don't use is a total waste. My parents insisted on me getting my licence "as you'll need it in the future and it's better to learn it now cause you'll get scared once you get older". In my country a licence is expensive depending on the hours of education you get (it's common to pay $1500-2500) so they literally spent $2000 on a stubborn kid not wanting to drive and not driving anymore once the licence part was done. But it's true, I do have a licence and it's a nice small card I can use to get into bars instead of dragging around my passport :)

[Zikoris]

People used to try to convince me and my partner that we should get drivers licenses - they've stopped now that we're in our 30s. The reasons they would come up with were always pretty funny - it usually centered around "but what if there's an emergency?", but nobody has ever been able to lay out a plausible emergency scenario that could only be solved by one of us being licensed to operate a vehicle.

Our reasoning is pretty similar to the teen's - we choose to live in walkable areas and have absolutely no need for a car. We also both get horribly carsick and hate being in cars, the drivers here are all insane and texting, and we have no desire to add a money pit to our lifestyle. I'm 32 as of today, and I can honestly say there has not even once been an instance yet where I've thought "Man, I wish I had a drivers license".

[mm1970]

People used to convince me and my partner that we should get drivers licenses - they've stopped now that we're in our 30s. The reasons they would come up with were always pretty funny - it usually centered around "but what if there's an emergency?", but nobody has ever been able to lay out a plausible emergency scenario that could only be solved by one of us being licensed to operate a vehicle.

Our reasoning is pretty similar to the teen's - we choose to live in walkable areas and have absolutely no need for a car. We also both get horribly carsick and hate being in cars, the drivers here are all insane and texting, and we have no desire to add a money pit to our lifestyle. I'm 32 as of today, and I can honestly say there has not even once been an instance yet where I've thought "Man, I wish I had a drivers license".

I have a neighbor in her 60s who grew up in NYC and never got a license.  At some point, I think in her 50s, she tried to take lessons.  She freaks out.

For a long long time, she just walked everywhere (side bonus: "I can eat whatever I want!")  We aren't in a particularly walkable neighborhood - steep hills, some sections with no sidewalk. But she has an electric bicycle.

The only issues come up when her spouse is traveling for business, like this week.  However, there are 4 families in the hood with 9 children among us at the same two schools.  Needless to say, it's not a problem to get a carpool to the JH or elementary.  (Not that our big kids can't walk the 1.5 miles to/from JH - and they do sometimes - but I have to admit their backpacks are really heavy.)

[Threshkin]

I didn't get my DL until I was 18.  The rule was that I needed to be able to pay for the license, insurance and buy my own car.  Not easy to earn that kind of money living 8 miles from the nearest store or gas station.  Taught me how to make do, find alternative income sources and be frugal though!  I also walked and biked a LOT.

[Imma]

My boyfriend and I also don't have licenses. We didn't have a couple thousand lying around at the age of 18 (which is the minimum age to drive where we live) and didn't have money until our mid-twenties. Now, we technically could afford it, but we've been adults for 10-15 years and we've never missed having a car. Our lives are designed around not driving. We live in a country/city where living without a car is pretty easy. We have bulky furniture / appliances delivered and pay for a taxi three times a year.

My mum still nags about the license though. She feels non-driving women are not independent (what about non-driving men?) but not driving has never limited me in any way.

[johndoe]

The last few posts have made me wonder about my average monthly cost of car ownership.  (I'm sure this topic could/does have it's own thread...but just to add to this discussion...)  This is for two cars (only driven by me).

Gas, maintenance, insurance, and registration accounted for about $240 / month. (based on two years' worth of P.C. data ... of course a different two year period could have larger/smaller repairs)
Car purchase price (divided by months owned) resulted in about $200 / month. ($170 of this came from the "fun" car I got more recently)

So my total cost has been about $440 / month.  If I didn't have a "fun" car it'd be more like $270 / month.  In my opinion, for the amount of freedom a car gives me, I'm satisfied with paying this amount.  Obviously every person has a different situation (public transit, family members, scheduled hobbies) but that's just my outlook.  This is in the same ballpark as what I pay towards fed+state taxes, or property taxes.  I think different arguments could be made for which of those I get most value out of =)

[hdatontodo]

How do people vacation and rent a car to sightsee w/o a license? Uber to Moab from SLC?

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[onlykelsey]

How do people vacation and rent a car to sightsee w/o a license? Uber to Moab from SLC?

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YOU MUST USE A BICYCLE!!!!!!!

Joking. That may be a sort of uniquely American question, though... I drive (manual and stick) but have literally once in my life rented a car for a vacation (last day of vacation in Croatia).

[Zikoris]

How do people vacation and rent a car to sightsee w/o a license? Uber to Moab from SLC?

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I vacation a lot and have never once had the desire to rent a car. The drivers in my own city stress me out, and this is in a place where I know the rules and layout pretty well - the idea of driving at high speeds on the opposite side of the road with completely different signage and nothing in English gives me cold sweats. No thank you!

But the real question here seems to be slightly different - you can't seriously be asking how people rent and drive cars without licenses, because that's obviously illegal and dangerous. But if you're actually asking how people get from point A to point B without a car, the answer is generally doing a bus or carpool.

[Imma]

I just returned from a short vacation yesterday. We walked from home to the train station (although there is a bus every 15 minutes). We took the train to the border (1,5 hour)  then a bus across the border to our destination (1 hour). There is also a direct and faster train connection, but taking the bus is much cheaper.

At our destination we had rented a self-catering apartment right across the street from the central station and went grocery shopping on foot, which is what we do at home as well. We went to this place to see some historic sites and all of them were walking distance from our apartment, except one which was 20 minutes by bus. We were only there for a few days so didn't have enough time to hike, but we could have taken a bus to the start of several trail.

I have travelled all around Europe this way and I have certainly not limited myself to big cities. You can reach many destinations by regular public traffic and very occasionally I have used bus services offered by hostels. One time I actually travelled by steam boat! What I like about this way of travelling is that you really get a chance to get in touch with the locals.

[faithless]

To continue the off topic discussion, as obviously the parent is anti-mustachian:

My 17th birthday present from my parents was driving lessons and my test, they decided that for me (17's the age limit where I am).

I had no intention of driving until after I'd finished uni due to cost and not needing a car to get to my uni/parents home/part time job, but I was very glad they did that for me, as:

- when I bought a car at 21 my insurance was cheaper (one insurance question was how long you've held your licence - 3 years was a cheaper answer than <1 year)

- I had a lot more time on my hands as a 17 y/o to learn

- It took me quite a lot of lessons to learn, and failed my first test, probably due to a lack of confidence, so it took a long time and was quite expensive

- Compared to a Facebook friend who tried to learn a few years after graduating, whilst trying to fit it around work etc, it took her ages, esp finding the extra money for more lessons after she failed her first test

- it meant I could take the first good job that I was offered after graduating, (which I basically couldn't have got to by public transport due to the layout of the area), without having to worry about learning to drive in the 4 weeks before I started. Good jobs were scarce where we lived, so that job enabled me to live with my parents for 2 years, pay minimal rent and save a house deposit quickly.

[faithless]

...

I have travelled all around Europe this way and I have certainly not limited myself to big cities. You can reach many destinations by regular public traffic and very occasionally I have used bus services offered by hostels. One time I actually travelled by steam boat! What I like about this way of travelling is that you really get a chance to get in touch with the locals.

That sounds really cool! I prefer walking or public transport to get around on holiday, and love that I can stay very close to the action cheaply in Airbnb apartments.

E.g. a stunning apartment right in the Marais in Paris meant we only had to get the train from the airport and out to an awesome flea market on the edge of the city, everywhere else we could walk to, and we stayed with n a tiny flat above a bookstore when we were in Instanbul, right opposite a bottom entrance to the Topkapi Palace.

But I was glad we could rent a car in Turkey last year - we booked a cheap all inclusive package type holiday (flights and hotel), but wanted to go see some historic sites, and renting a car allowed us to spend full days at the sites we wanted to see (Ephesus was amazing!), and stop off en route when we saw something interesting.

If you knew what you wanted to do, you could have just booked a taxi/private tour, so it would have been more expensive, but not impossible.

[Peachtea]

How do people vacation and rent a car to sightsee w/o a license? Uber to Moab from SLC?

No Uber available for that route. But you could fly directly to Moab and use taxies or rent a bike from there to the trails. Or take greyhound SLC to Green River + taxi/private shuttle there to Moab.

My point is even in the US it’s easier than one would think to get around traveling car free, especially if going to a city rather than national park. Any city large enough to fly or bus into is probably doable (and cheaper) with Uber/taxi rather than car rental. And you’d be surprised where you can all get on a bus. I travel to smaller midwestern cities for both work and leisure; it’s often cheaper to Uber than rent a car. People are just too used to assuming they need a car.

[joleran]

I drove by myself on public roads at age 12 because that's how you moved between fields on the farm.  At 14, I could drive legally by myself.  Age doesn't matter as much as driver education, which when it meant a switch on my backside was involved, I considered very important as well.

[Prairie Stash]

This popped up on my FB feed today:

"I'm trying to persuade the teen to get his learners' permit so I can justify looking at new-to-me cars. He's not buying it.
He can walk to school and ride his bike to the bus to go downtown or the movies or whatever, why does he need a car?"

Realistically, knowing how to drive is a valuable skill, even if you don't actually drive much. Said teen is being short sighted there.

If it's as cheap as some of the other posters mentinoed here it certainly won't hurt to get one and learn how to drive.

In Canada a Drivers licence (my province) is $20/year to have. Costs are comparable across Canada.

To get the licence I paid for a road test (currently $55) and a written test ($25), back in my day they were much cheaper (its a one time cost). Lessons can be done at home if you have acess to a car, for me that consisted of driving to the grocery store with my parent.

I also have a licence for motorcycles (seperate from my car licence). I paid for a safety course privately, $200 but it was optional, and the tests were $50. I spent more on my helmet and gear for perspective.

Having a licence is cheap and I can drive company vehicles. I can also rent moving trucks, for switching houses. I frequently rent cars as needed, sometimes a road trip is cheaper and quicker then flying; such as going to a wedding 5 hours away by car or an hour by plane (plus taxis/bus to airport, air delays etc.). Within Canada its more time consuming to travel by car but generally cheaper for two people, rental cars are cheap.

Having a licence does not mean you have a car. A drivers licence is cheap ($20/year), a car is expensive ($1000+).

[Imma]

This popped up on my FB feed today:

"I'm trying to persuade the teen to get his learners' permit so I can justify looking at new-to-me cars. He's not buying it.
He can walk to school and ride his bike to the bus to go downtown or the movies or whatever, why does he need a car?"

Realistically, knowing how to drive is a valuable skill, even if you don't actually drive much. Said teen is being short sighted there.

If it's as cheap as some of the other posters mentinoed here it certainly won't hurt to get one and learn how to drive.

In Canada a Drivers licence (my province) is $20/year to have. Costs are comparable across Canada.

To get the licence I paid for a road test (currently $55) and a written test ($25), back in my day they were much cheaper (its a one time cost). Lessons can be done at home if you have acess to a car, for me that consisted of driving to the grocery store with my parent.

Having a licence is cheap and I can drive company vehicles. I can also rent moving trucks, for switching houses. I frequently rent cars as needed, sometimes a road trip is cheaper and quicker then flying; such as going to a wedding 5 hours away by car or an hour by plane (plus taxis/bus to airport, air delays etc.). Within Canada its more time consuming to travel by car but generally cheaper for two people, rental cars are cheap.

I think the major difference in my country is that parents aren't allowed to teach their children to drive. You need to have passed your test to be allowed to drive on public roads. So you need to pay for an instructor to teach you, and the average person needs about 35-40 lessons to pass their test.

I agree that maybe once or twice a year it might have been useful for us to have it, to rent a van to move house or at work to occasionally use a company vehicle to visit a factory location ( I work at my company's HQ) but when I told my boss I didn't have a license he wasn't surprised at all. None of his kids had one either.

One thing to keep in mind though is that once you've got a license, you need to continue to use it. I know quite a few people who got a license when they turned 18, went off to university a few months later and don't drive for years after. That can lead to dangerous situations. We were on a trip with a group of people once and we banned one person in the group from driving because she had no idea how bad a driver she was. Turned out she had driven only a handful of times after getting her license 5 years earlier.

[Hirondelle]

One thing to keep in mind though is that once you've got a license, you need to continue to use it. I know quite a few people who got a license when they turned 18, went off to university a few months later and don't drive for years after. That can lead to dangerous situations. We were on a trip with a group of people once and we banned one person in the group from driving because she had no idea how bad a driver she was. Turned out she had driven only a handful of times after getting her license 5 years earlier.

That person would be totally me :D. Except that I'm very aware of my lack of driving skills. My parents' car is also an automatic so the 10ish times I drove after getting the licence I didn't use the poke either. An ex-boyfriend thought it wouldn't be so bad and forced me 3 years after getting the licence to have a ride in his car as he wanted me to be able to drive it. I warned him, but when I drove 1 street he realized I hadn't been exaggerating :') I better stick to my bike.

[Goldielocks]

People used to try to convince me and my partner that we should get drivers licenses - they've stopped now that we're in our 30s. The reasons they would come up with were always pretty funny - it usually centered around "but what if there's an emergency?", but nobody has ever been able to lay out a plausible emergency scenario that could only be solved by one of us being licensed to operate a vehicle.

Our reasoning is pretty similar to the teen's - we choose to live in walkable areas and have absolutely no need for a car. We also both get horribly carsick and hate being in cars, the drivers here are all insane and texting, and we have no desire to add a money pit to our lifestyle. I'm 32 as of today, and I can honestly say there has not even once been an instance yet where I've thought "Man, I wish I had a drivers license".

Hah!  DD is the same way.   But her BF just moved out to Aldergrove (to live with relative) and also does not have a license (or even a learners). He has no access to a car.   Transit sucks for them.   I have a car (uninsured) that i told her she could pay for insurance and use to get around, if she wanted, but needs to get a DL first.   She has failed the in car test 4 times now (would not practice) and has pretty much stopped trying.

She does see the advantages, to her, personally, but not enough to actually trigger setting a time to take the next exam.

[Zikoris]

People used to try to convince me and my partner that we should get drivers licenses - they've stopped now that we're in our 30s. The reasons they would come up with were always pretty funny - it usually centered around "but what if there's an emergency?", but nobody has ever been able to lay out a plausible emergency scenario that could only be solved by one of us being licensed to operate a vehicle.

Our reasoning is pretty similar to the teen's - we choose to live in walkable areas and have absolutely no need for a car. We also both get horribly carsick and hate being in cars, the drivers here are all insane and texting, and we have no desire to add a money pit to our lifestyle. I'm 32 as of today, and I can honestly say there has not even once been an instance yet where I've thought "Man, I wish I had a drivers license".

Hah!  DD is the same way.   But her BF just moved out to Aldergrove (to live with relative) and also does not have a license (or even a learners). He has no access to a car.   Transit sucks for them.   I have a car (uninsured) that i told her she could pay for insurance and use to get around, if she wanted, but needs to get a DL first.   She has failed the in car test 4 times now (would not practice) and has pretty much stopped trying.

She does see the advantages, to her, personally, but not enough to actually trigger setting a time to take the next exam.

I'm probably a bit cold-hearted on this one, but if I was dating someone and they decided to move to the sticks, I would see that as their problem/choice, not mine, and they could deal with the consequences from that. I would also seriously question the judgment of someone who chose to move there without a license and/or car - it seems like such a terrible idea that I would really want to understand their reasoning, since "bad life decision making" is a pretty big red flag for me in dating.

[DS]

People used to try to convince me and my partner that we should get drivers licenses - they've stopped now that we're in our 30s. The reasons they would come up with were always pretty funny - it usually centered around "but what if there's an emergency?", but nobody has ever been able to lay out a plausible emergency scenario that could only be solved by one of us being licensed to operate a vehicle.

Our reasoning is pretty similar to the teen's - we choose to live in walkable areas and have absolutely no need for a car. We also both get horribly carsick and hate being in cars, the drivers here are all insane and texting, and we have no desire to add a money pit to our lifestyle. I'm 32 as of today, and I can honestly say there has not even once been an instance yet where I've thought "Man, I wish I had a drivers license".

Hah!  DD is the same way.   But her BF just moved out to Aldergrove (to live with relative) and also does not have a license (or even a learners). He has no access to a car.   Transit sucks for them.   I have a car (uninsured) that i told her she could pay for insurance and use to get around, if she wanted, but needs to get a DL first.   She has failed the in car test 4 times now (would not practice) and has pretty much stopped trying.

She does see the advantages, to her, personally, but not enough to actually trigger setting a time to take the next exam.

I'm probably a bit cold-hearted on this one, but if I was dating someone and they decided to move to the sticks, I would see that as their problem/choice, not mine, and they could deal with the consequences from that. I would also seriously question the judgment of someone who chose to move there without a license and/or car - it seems like such a terrible idea that I would really want to understand their reasoning, since "bad life decision making" is a pretty big red flag for me in dating.

For this example, would need specifics on "transit sucks." May be true here, but a common thing to hear when transit is perfectly fine for someone who understands it and is willing to take it.

[Zikoris]

People used to try to convince me and my partner that we should get drivers licenses - they've stopped now that we're in our 30s. The reasons they would come up with were always pretty funny - it usually centered around "but what if there's an emergency?", but nobody has ever been able to lay out a plausible emergency scenario that could only be solved by one of us being licensed to operate a vehicle.

Our reasoning is pretty similar to the teen's - we choose to live in walkable areas and have absolutely no need for a car. We also both get horribly carsick and hate being in cars, the drivers here are all insane and texting, and we have no desire to add a money pit to our lifestyle. I'm 32 as of today, and I can honestly say there has not even once been an instance yet where I've thought "Man, I wish I had a drivers license".

Hah!  DD is the same way.   But her BF just moved out to Aldergrove (to live with relative) and also does not have a license (or even a learners). He has no access to a car.   Transit sucks for them.   I have a car (uninsured) that i told her she could pay for insurance and use to get around, if she wanted, but needs to get a DL first.   She has failed the in car test 4 times now (would not practice) and has pretty much stopped trying.

She does see the advantages, to her, personally, but not enough to actually trigger setting a time to take the next exam.

I'm probably a bit cold-hearted on this one, but if I was dating someone and they decided to move to the sticks, I would see that as their problem/choice, not mine, and they could deal with the consequences from that. I would also seriously question the judgment of someone who chose to move there without a license and/or car - it seems like such a terrible idea that I would really want to understand their reasoning, since "bad life decision making" is a pretty big red flag for me in dating.

For this example, would need specifics on "transit sucks." May be true here, but a common thing to hear when transit is perfectly fine for someone who understands it and is willing to take it.

Me and Goldielocks live in the same area and I can guarantee transit to Aldergrove is horrible. To get to Vancouver fro Aldergrove you have to pass completely through the cities of Langley, Surrey, New Westminster, Burnaby, and finally Vancouver, all of which are large. It's about an hour by bus to get to the metro system, and another 40 minutes to get to downtown Vancouver from there, longer if you're going somewhere else in Vancouver. So you'd be looking at, very likely, two hours each way. Even driving takes at least an hour each way. It suuuuucks big time.

[dragoncar]

People used to try to convince me and my partner that we should get drivers licenses - they've stopped now that we're in our 30s. The reasons they would come up with were always pretty funny - it usually centered around "but what if there's an emergency?", but nobody has ever been able to lay out a plausible emergency scenario that could only be solved by one of us being licensed to operate a vehicle.

Our reasoning is pretty similar to the teen's - we choose to live in walkable areas and have absolutely no need for a car. We also both get horribly carsick and hate being in cars, the drivers here are all insane and texting, and we have no desire to add a money pit to our lifestyle. I'm 32 as of today, and I can honestly say there has not even once been an instance yet where I've thought "Man, I wish I had a drivers license".

Hah!  DD is the same way.   But her BF just moved out to Aldergrove (to live with relative) and also does not have a license (or even a learners). He has no access to a car.   Transit sucks for them.   I have a car (uninsured) that i told her she could pay for insurance and use to get around, if she wanted, but needs to get a DL first.   She has failed the in car test 4 times now (would not practice) and has pretty much stopped trying.

She does see the advantages, to her, personally, but not enough to actually trigger setting a time to take the next exam.

I'm probably a bit cold-hearted on this one, but if I was dating someone and they decided to move to the sticks, I would see that as their problem/choice, not mine, and they could deal with the consequences from that. I would also seriously question the judgment of someone who chose to move there without a license and/or car - it seems like such a terrible idea that I would really want to understand their reasoning, since "bad life decision making" is a pretty big red flag for me in dating.

Yeah these kids sound like teenagers who do not typically decide where their family moves to

[Dave1442397]

This just popped up on my FB feed from a casual acquaintance. OMFG.

[RWD]

This just popped up on my FB feed from a casual acquaintance. OMFG.

Wow.  I don't think "needless to say" means what they think it means...

[RecoveringCarClown]

Based on their website, that appears to be a $50k truck?  O.o

[dragoncar]

Based on their website, that appears to be a $50k truck?  O.o

That he owes $60k on? I know they said they “eliminate” $10k of negative equity but I’m pretty sure that’s a bald faced lie.  Likely they merely transfer the negative equity to the new car.  If it’s true, then it’s actually a pretty good deal

[Goldielocks]

People used to try to convince me and my partner that we should get drivers licenses - they've stopped now that we're in our 30s. The reasons they would come up with were always pretty funny - it usually centered around "but what if there's an emergency?", but nobody has ever been able to lay out a plausible emergency scenario that could only be solved by one of us being licensed to operate a vehicle.

Our reasoning is pretty similar to the teen's - we choose to live in walkable areas and have absolutely no need for a car. We also both get horribly carsick and hate being in cars, the drivers here are all insane and texting, and we have no desire to add a money pit to our lifestyle. I'm 32 as of today, and I can honestly say there has not even once been an instance yet where I've thought "Man, I wish I had a drivers license".

Hah!  DD is the same way.   But her BF just moved out to Aldergrove (to live with relative) and also does not have a license (or even a learners). He has no access to a car.   Transit sucks for them.   I have a car (uninsured) that i told her she could pay for insurance and use to get around, if she wanted, but needs to get a DL first.   She has failed the in car test 4 times now (would not practice) and has pretty much stopped trying.

She does see the advantages, to her, personally, but not enough to actually trigger setting a time to take the next exam.

I'm probably a bit cold-hearted on this one, but if I was dating someone and they decided to move to the sticks, I would see that as their problem/choice, not mine, and they could deal with the consequences from that. I would also seriously question the judgment of someone who chose to move there without a license and/or car - it seems like such a terrible idea that I would really want to understand their reasoning, since "bad life decision making" is a pretty big red flag for me in dating.

Yeah these kids sound like teenagers who do not typically decide where their family moves to

Nailed it.   BF graduated HS last June, and his dad is moving out of province so he has to move in with his mom or, you know, pay for his own way. 

 I haven't tried flatly framing the idea "seriously question the judgment of someone.... such a terrible idea ... "bad life decision making" is a pretty big red flag in dating...   to her yet.  Something about caution about driving one's daughter directly into the situation you are trying to warn her off of....

The BF saw this coming since last May and did NOTHING to help himself out of it, and I even sat him down and described three options that were open to him to do something different...  oh, well.     He just started his first job, so we will see. 

[Dave1442397]

Based on their website, that appears to be a $50k truck?  O.o

That he owes $60k on? I know they said they “eliminate” $10k of negative equity but I’m pretty sure that’s a bald faced lie.  Likely they merely transfer the negative equity to the new car.  If it’s true, then it’s actually a pretty good deal

Yes, it's certainly just a transfer of negative equity, so the guy owes maybe $60k at this point. I hope he likes his truck.

[I'm a red panda]

A friend posted "My phone is dying and I desperately need a new one- anyone have something to sell? I'll pay."

Lots of people posting used Iphones for around $400.

I said "I got my Moto at Walmart for $50 new. It doesn't have an internal compass but otherwise works identically to the expensive phones I've had."

She replied and tells me she needs an apple or galaxy only.

[I'm a red panda]

A friend posted "My phone is dying and I desperately need a new one- anyone have something to sell? I'll pay."

Lots of people posting used Iphones for around $400.

I said "I got my Moto at Walmart for $50 new. It doesn't have an internal compass but otherwise works identically to the expensive phones I've had."

She replied and tells me she needs an apple or galaxy only.

I splurged on a Moto G6 Forge ($79) at Best Buy last month. My older $40 phone's speakers were shot.

I saw my coworker counting $100 bills on his desk and asked, "Rent money?". To which he replied, "Nah, I'm  buying an Apple X from Craiglist."

I counted $700.
WTF????

Ooh the G6 Forge looks nice. I have the G4 Play. It's great. It's 2 years old now and still doing fine.  I assume you get 2 years out of a phone, and I'd certainly rather get it out of a sub $100 phone than a $500+ one.

[ysette9]

I just booted up my new iPhone 8 that I got because my employer gave it to me for free. I had previously planned on using my iPhone 6 until screen and battery replacements were no longer sufficient to keep it going. I have to say, I wouldn’t buy this new phone myself but I am enjoying all of its fancy fancy. :) Here is hoping the phone will take me to FIRE!

[HamsterStache]

A friend posted "My phone is dying and I desperately need a new one- anyone have something to sell? I'll pay."

Lots of people posting used Iphones for around $400.

I said "I got my Moto at Walmart for $50 new. It doesn't have an internal compass but otherwise works identically to the expensive phones I've had."

She replied and tells me she needs an apple or galaxy only.

I splurged on a Moto G6 Forge ($79) at Best Buy last month. My older $40 phone's speakers were shot.

I saw my coworker counting $100 bills on his desk and asked, "Rent money?". To which he replied, "Nah, I'm  buying an Apple X from Craiglist."

I counted $700.
WTF????

Ooh the G6 Forge looks nice. I have the G4 Play. It's great. It's 2 years old now and still doing fine.  I assume you get 2 years out of a phone, and I'd certainly rather get it out of a sub $100 phone than a $500+ one.

The G6 has been great. My old phone was a Coolpad Canvas that I bought for $39. It lasted me about a year but I did drop it a bunch of times, so I'm not terribly angry at it. Problem was the speaker went out on it so I couldn't hear when I got any type of communication, so it had to go.

Previous to that I had a HTC for about 3 years. I plan on keeping this one for at least two.

Phones are the one thing DW and I have really splurged on for ourselves - yes our new iphoneX's were obscenely expensive, the most unmustachian of any of our purchases, but I plan on making them last far longer than your average American would. Our last phones were Iphone 4S's which we coaxed along for nearly six years before giving in and upgrading. For the amount we use them, it's worth it to us, and buying at the top means it will be that much longer before they are completely obsolete.

[zolotiyeruki]

Phones are the one thing DW and I have really splurged on for ourselves - yes our new iphoneX's were obscenely expensive, the most unmustachian of any of our purchases, but I plan on making them last far longer than your average American would. Our last phones were Iphone 4S's which we coaxed along for nearly six years before giving in and upgrading. For the amount we use them, it's worth it to us, and buying at the top means it will be that much longer before they are completely obsolete.

I'm curious--what constitutes "obsolete" for you?

The depreciation argument traditionally used in the context of cars applies equally well to flagship cell phones...

[HamsterStache]

Phones are the one thing DW and I have really splurged on for ourselves - yes our new iphoneX's were obscenely expensive, the most unmustachian of any of our purchases, but I plan on making them last far longer than your average American would. Our last phones were Iphone 4S's which we coaxed along for nearly six years before giving in and upgrading. For the amount we use them, it's worth it to us, and buying at the top means it will be that much longer before they are completely obsolete.

I'm curious--what constitutes "obsolete" for you?

The depreciation argument traditionally used in the context of cars applies equally well to flagship cell phones...

All but literally unusable. I would argue there is a big difference between cell phones and cars - an old car may not have the bells and whistles a new one does, but it still drives you and probably keeps the temperature semi-comfortable and plays music for you. It just might not brake itself or have its own entertainment system. Our phones got to the point where they were not supported by current technology - constantly ran out of space, could not browse certain websites or use modern apps etc, became extremely slow to use due to trying to process modern technology. Any car will drive on any road in virtually the same way. Also, I take a lot of photos, and having the high quality camera is important to me as well. I don't care about the monetary value depreciating, only the usability.

[Dave1442397]

Phones are the one thing DW and I have really splurged on for ourselves - yes our new iphoneX's were obscenely expensive, the most unmustachian of any of our purchases, but I plan on making them last far longer than your average American would. Our last phones were Iphone 4S's which we coaxed along for nearly six years before giving in and upgrading. For the amount we use them, it's worth it to us, and buying at the top means it will be that much longer before they are completely obsolete.

I'm curious--what constitutes "obsolete" for you?

The depreciation argument traditionally used in the context of cars applies equally well to flagship cell phones...

All but literally unusable. I would argue there is a big difference between cell phones and cars - an old car may not have the bells and whistles a new one does, but it still drives you and probably keeps the temperature semi-comfortable and plays music for you. It just might not brake itself or have its own entertainment system. Our phones got to the point where they were not supported by current technology - constantly ran out of space, could not browse certain websites or use modern apps etc, became extremely slow to use due to trying to process modern technology. Any car will drive on any road in virtually the same way. Also, I take a lot of photos, and having the high quality camera is important to me as well. I don't care about the monetary value depreciating, only the usability.

Yeah, I found the same thing with iPads. I have an original iPad that I gave up on a few years ago. It got to the point where you couldn't even open Safari for more than a few seconds before it crashed, and most of the apps wouldn't update any more. I replaced it with a Chromebook.

[Rural]

Phones are the one thing DW and I have really splurged on for ourselves - yes our new iphoneX's were obscenely expensive, the most unmustachian of any of our purchases, but I plan on making them last far longer than your average American would. Our last phones were Iphone 4S's which we coaxed along for nearly six years before giving in and upgrading. For the amount we use them, it's worth it to us, and buying at the top means it will be that much longer before they are completely obsolete.

I'm curious--what constitutes "obsolete" for you?

The depreciation argument traditionally used in the context of cars applies equally well to flagship cell phones...

All but literally unusable. I would argue there is a big difference between cell phones and cars - an old car may not have the bells and whistles a new one does, but it still drives you and probably keeps the temperature semi-comfortable and plays music for you. It just might not brake itself or have its own entertainment system. Our phones got to the point where they were not supported by current technology - constantly ran out of space, could not browse certain websites or use modern apps etc, became extremely slow to use due to trying to process modern technology. Any car will drive on any road in virtually the same way. Also, I take a lot of photos, and having the high quality camera is important to me as well. I don't care about the monetary value depreciating, only the usability.

Yeah, I found the same thing with iPads. I have an original iPad that I gave up on a few years ago. It got to the point where you couldn't even open Safari for more than a few seconds before it crashed, and most of the apps wouldn't update any more. I replaced it with a Chromebook.

Huh, that must depend very much on the individual device. I have an original iPad that's still going strong, no issues with Safari. I don't update its apps anymore, that's true - mostly use email, web and Kindle on it.

[geekette]

We also have an original iPad from 5/2010, and it has problems with "busy" web pages.  Text stuff is fine, but many newer web pages will crash it.

It's mostly used for podcasts and very basic browsing, plus it has a small monthly amount of free T-Mobile cellular data for life, so it's handy if our internet goes out. 

[Glenstache]

Phones are the one thing DW and I have really splurged on for ourselves - yes our new iphoneX's were obscenely expensive, the most unmustachian of any of our purchases, but I plan on making them last far longer than your average American would. Our last phones were Iphone 4S's which we coaxed along for nearly six years before giving in and upgrading. For the amount we use them, it's worth it to us, and buying at the top means it will be that much longer before they are completely obsolete.

I'm curious--what constitutes "obsolete" for you?

The depreciation argument traditionally used in the context of cars applies equally well to flagship cell phones...

When I need a new phone, I generally apply the 2 generation rule and get something 2 models behind the thing that came out 2 months ago. I usually get them for $150 and they last for several years before I do something terrible to them. Friends who are phone geeks still seem to ooh and ahh over them, which still strikes me a bit weird.

[OtherJen]

A friend posted "My phone is dying and I desperately need a new one- anyone have something to sell? I'll pay."

Lots of people posting used Iphones for around $400.

I said "I got my Moto at Walmart for $50 new. It doesn't have an internal compass but otherwise works identically to the expensive phones I've had."

She replied and tells me she needs an apple or galaxy only.

I splurged on a Moto G6 Forge ($79) at Best Buy last month. My older $40 phone's speakers were shot.

I saw my coworker counting $100 bills on his desk and asked, "Rent money?". To which he replied, "Nah, I'm  buying an Apple X from Craiglist."

Ooh the G6 Forge looks nice. I have the G4 Play. It's great. It's 2 years old now and still doing fine.  I assume you get 2 years out of a phone, and I'd certainly rather get it out of a sub $100 phone than a $500+ one.

The G6 has been great.

Yay, this is encouraging! My Nexus 5 is slowing down and isn’t going to get security updates after next month (important because I occasionally deal with client emails/info and some financial stuff). We use Project Fi and are planning to buy new Moto G6 phones for Christmas (cheapest compatible phones). Glad to know that they’re a good value.

[Cherry Lane]

Yay, this is encouraging! My Nexus 5 is slowing down and isn’t going to get security updates after next month (important because I occasionally deal with client emails/info and some financial stuff). We use Project Fi and are planning to buy new Moto G6 phones for Christmas (cheapest compatible phones). Glad to know that they’re a good value.

I didn't know this about the end of security updates.  My Nexus 5 is definitely showing its age recently with degraded performance, but I'm not ready to give it up yet.  Now I think I'll need to.

[zolotiyeruki]

Yay, this is encouraging! My Nexus 5 is slowing down and isn’t going to get security updates after next month (important because I occasionally deal with client emails/info and some financial stuff). We use Project Fi and are planning to buy new Moto G6 phones for Christmas (cheapest compatible phones). Glad to know that they’re a good value.

I didn't know this about the end of security updates.  My Nexus 5 is definitely showing its age recently with degraded performance, but I'm not ready to give it up yet.  Now I think I'll need to.

FWIW,  a lot of phones have aftermarket support after the manufacturer EOLs them. If you're feeling adventurous and are very good at precisely following instructions, you can install an up -to-date version of Android on older phones.

[OtherJen]

Yay, this is encouraging! My Nexus 5 is slowing down and isn’t going to get security updates after next month (important because I occasionally deal with client emails/info and some financial stuff). We use Project Fi and are planning to buy new Moto G6 phones for Christmas (cheapest compatible phones). Glad to know that they’re a good value.

I didn't know this about the end of security updates.  My Nexus 5 is definitely showing its age recently with degraded performance, but I'm not ready to give it up yet.  Now I think I'll need to.

FWIW,  a lot of phones have aftermarket support after the manufacturer EOLs them. If you're feeling adventurous and are very good at precisely following instructions, you can install an up -to-date version of Android on older phones.

I’m not sure I’m up for it—I’m not tech-savvy/adventurous and need the phone to work with no issues. Husband, OTOH, loves to tinker with gadgets: builds his own computers, has no qualms about pulling apart an appliance for repairs after watching a YouTube video. He may have fun with this. Thanks for the suggestion. These were our first Android phones, so we’re still learning.