Overheard on Facebook

[jinga nation]

Our YMCA is still open, but only to take care of the children of law-enforcement, first responders, etc. I haven't stopped my monthly dues, it's my charitable giving in times of need. A couple of months of dues won't make an effect on my net worth, but I'll be happier knowing my Y will be operational in the future. Been a member since 2006, no plan to stop.

[Goatee Joe]

Today on Facebook:

[paraphrasing]:  "Load up on stocks of XYZ Oil Company!  It's literally too big to fail!!"  Uh oh.  Where have we heard this one before?

Another face-palm from today on FB:

"It is SO important for those near retirement to focus on capital preservation instead of maximizing returns."

Speak for yourself, pal.  While you're busy selling all your stock funds and transferring them to cash, I'll enjoy the next several decades of gains.  (Caveat:  I suppose this could be "good" advice for Joe Sixpack, who retires with close to no savings, no plan, and no ability to control himself and his spending.  For Mustachians.... not so much.)

[ysette9]

Today on Facebook:

[paraphrasing]:  "Load up on stocks of XYZ Oil Company!  It's literally too big to fail!!"  Uh oh.  Where have we heard this one before?

Another face-palm from today on FB:

"It is SO important for those near retirement to focus on capital preservation instead of maximizing returns."

Speak for yourself, pal.  While you're busy selling all your stock funds and transferring them to cash, I'll enjoy the next several decades of gains.  (Caveat:  I suppose this could be "good" advice for Joe Sixpack, who retires with close to no savings, no plan, and no ability to control himself and his spending.  For Mustachians.... not so much.)

It also depends on how old you are when you retire. If you retire at 75 then I imagine capital preservation is the most important thing. If you are 35 when you retire then capital preservation is one of the things that you can do that will give you almost no chance of your portfolio going the distance.

[LWYRUP]

I recently got dragged into a convo about babysitting. There's a mom asking a group what a reasonable price would be for a sitter for 4 kids 5 and under (three age 4, one infant).

Well, mostly the responses were $25-30 an hour, maybe $20.

But she didn't really like that.  So I pointed out that it's FOUR kids UNDER the age of 5.  The # of kids and the age of the kids matter.   Then she and two others went on a HUGE rant about how can ANYONE afford to go out, and that's ridiculous.

It moved on to "well, preschool teachers get $15 / hour for 8 kids under 5!"

I mean, aside from the fact that preschool teachers get benefits AND experienced ones get more than that AND they work close to full time - what are you expecting?  Because my babysitter is/was a preschool teacher.  She's in her 30's.  She's WELL WORTH the extra $ because she plays with the kids and they are asleep in their beds when we get home. 

She needs to make a living too, yes?  And $15 / hour is really peanuts here.  Cleaning ladies make $20+.

(FWIW, I was paying $15-18/hr for 2 kids who were 6 and 12).

I didn't SAY it (but thought about it): Look, you don't like the numbers, don't go out.  You find the unicorn willing to watch your four kids under five, and get them to bed, for $12-15 an hour?  Great, enjoy it.  Otherwise?  Find someone to swap with, or do what we did for 10 years.  Don't go out!  The sitters will tell you what they charge, pay it or stay home.

Disagree here.  I live in a very expensive area.  Also part of a relatively conservative catholic church with lots of large families.  We have three little ones and that's below average.  I can usually find a 15 year old for $12 an hour.  They are very experienced because they have siblings and mom and dad are usually just a few blocks away.  When they go to college they usually want more money, but there's a neverending supply of 15 year olds.

For $25 an hour, I'm pretty sure my wife and I would take turns going out for the next four years until the oldest turns 10.  $100 bucks for four hours, probably two of which the kids are asleep anyways?  No way. 

I do agree that market rates are what they are, but nothing wrong in wanting to find a good deal. 

[mm1970]

Disagree here.  I live in a very expensive area.  Also part of a relatively conservative catholic church with lots of large families.  We have three little ones and that's below average.  I can usually find a 15 year old for $12 an hour.  They are very experienced because they have siblings and mom and dad are usually just a few blocks away.  When they go to college they usually want more money, but there's a neverending supply of 15 year olds.

For $25 an hour, I'm pretty sure my wife and I would take turns going out for the next four years until the oldest turns 10.  $100 bucks for four hours, probably two of which the kids are asleep anyways?  No way.

I do agree that market rates are what they are, but nothing wrong in wanting to find a good deal.

A bit of a necro post, but I'll reiterate.

You get what you pay for.

Yes, you can find a 15 year old for $12-15 an hour.
There aren't a lot of them.  Many 15 year olds don't want to work, or don't have to work.
Also, many 15 year olds are not terribly experienced.

What do you want?  Do you want a teenager to play with your kids for a couple of hours?  The last teen I hired, we got home at 11 pm, the 18 month old was still awake, had cried all night, and was wearing a diaper backwards.  The 7 yo fessed up that the kid cried all evening.  Two weeks later we hired the 30-something.  Got home at 10, both kids asleep in bed.

Also, as mentioned above, we were talking about an infant and 3 other kids under the age of 5.  That's a LOT of kids, mostly likely too much for all but the most experienced teenagers.

For the record...we almost never went out, for years.  Until we found that great babysitter. 

[ixtap]

SIL got a new med alert bracelet to add the info on her chemo port. She paid extra for a beautiful, rose gold cuff. The med alert symbol is lost with all the engraving, and ras a cuff it would have to be removed in order to read the information. It doesn't seem designed to do it's job, but I have no doubt it costs more than the $20 standard.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Disagree here.  I live in a very expensive area.  Also part of a relatively conservative catholic church with lots of large families.  We have three little ones and that's below average.  I can usually find a 15 year old for $12 an hour.  They are very experienced because they have siblings and mom and dad are usually just a few blocks away.  When they go to college they usually want more money, but there's a neverending supply of 15 year olds.

For $25 an hour, I'm pretty sure my wife and I would take turns going out for the next four years until the oldest turns 10.  $100 bucks for four hours, probably two of which the kids are asleep anyways?  No way.

I do agree that market rates are what they are, but nothing wrong in wanting to find a good deal.

A bit of a necro post, but I'll reiterate.

You get what you pay for.

Yes, you can find a 15 year old for $12-15 an hour.
There aren't a lot of them.  Many 15 year olds don't want to work, or don't have to work.
Also, many 15 year olds are not terribly experienced.

What do you want?  Do you want a teenager to play with your kids for a couple of hours?  The last teen I hired, we got home at 11 pm, the 18 month old was still awake, had cried all night, and was wearing a diaper backwards.  The 7 yo fessed up that the kid cried all evening.  Two weeks later we hired the 30-something.  Got home at 10, both kids asleep in bed.

Also, as mentioned above, we were talking about an infant and 3 other kids under the age of 5.  That's a LOT of kids, mostly likely too much for all but the most experienced teenagers.

For the record...we almost never went out, for years.  Until we found that great babysitter.

Teenagers are definitely not all created equal! The good ones would be found by word of mouth.

[ysette9]

An infant and three other kids under the age of 5? I wouldn’t be qualified for that job and I have three kids of my own. No way could I expect there to be a teenager on the face of the earth capable of that.

[Dicey]

Disagree here.  I live in a very expensive area.  Also part of a relatively conservative catholic church with lots of large families.  We have three little ones and that's below average.  I can usually find a 15 year old for $12 an hour.  They are very experienced because they have siblings and mom and dad are usually just a few blocks away.  When they go to college they usually want more money, but there's a neverending supply of 15 year olds.

For $25 an hour, I'm pretty sure my wife and I would take turns going out for the next four years until the oldest turns 10.  $100 bucks for four hours, probably two of which the kids are asleep anyways?  No way.

I do agree that market rates are what they are, but nothing wrong in wanting to find a good deal.

A bit of a necro post, but I'll reiterate.

You get what you pay for.

Yes, you can find a 15 year old for $12-15 an hour.
There aren't a lot of them.  Many 15 year olds don't want to work, or don't have to work.
Also, many 15 year olds are not terribly experienced.

What do you want?  Do you want a teenager to play with your kids for a couple of hours?  The last teen I hired, we got home at 11 pm, the 18 month old was still awake, had cried all night, and was wearing a diaper backwards.  The 7 yo fessed up that the kid cried all evening.  Two weeks later we hired the 30-something.  Got home at 10, both kids asleep in bed.

Also, as mentioned above, we were talking about an infant and 3 other kids under the age of 5.  That's a LOT of kids, mostly likely too much for all but the most experienced teenagers.

For the record...we almost never went out, for years.  Until we found that great babysitter.

I think you kind of missed @LWYRUP's point. In their area, there ARE plenty of fifteen year olds who are experienced with small children. I totally related to that response. I'm the oldest of six and I was an experienced and in-demand babysitter by the age of 12. Most of our neighbors were not Catholic, so their families were smaller than ours. Babysitting two or three kids was a piece of cake, because it was easier than being at home.As I got older, I was so in demand that several families drove significant distances to pick me up and take me home. These families were colleagues of my dad's, so you know there was none of that wet diaper, crying all night shit going on. Also, they paid me door-to-door.

[Ann]

I think you kind of missed @LWYRUP's point. In their area, there ARE plenty of fifteen year olds who are experienced with small children. I totally related to that response. I'm the oldest of six and I was an experienced and in-demand babysitter by the age of 12. Most of our neighbors were not Catholic, so their families were smaller than ours. Babysitting two or three kids was a piece of cake, because it was easier than being at home.As I got older, I was so in demand that several families drove significant distances to pick me up and take me home. These families were colleagues of my dad's, so you know there was none of that wet diaper, crying all night shit going on. Also, they paid me door-to-door.

What does being paid “door-to-door” mean?

[Peachtea]

I think you kind of missed @LWYRUP's point. In their area, there ARE plenty of fifteen year olds who are experienced with small children. I totally related to that response. I'm the oldest of six and I was an experienced and in-demand babysitter by the age of 12. Most of our neighbors were not Catholic, so their families were smaller than ours. Babysitting two or three kids was a piece of cake, because it was easier than being at home.As I got older, I was so in demand that several families drove significant distances to pick me up and take me home. These families were colleagues of my dad's, so you know there was none of that wet diaper, crying all night shit going on. Also, they paid me door-to-door.

What does being paid “door-to-door” mean?

The time from the babysitter’s home and back, rather than amount of time at the family’s home. Essentially, travel time was paid for.

[Imma]

My friend is a professional freelance nanny, as in, has a teaching degree and years of experience. She has literally been offered jobs that amounted to €4/hour pre-tax and parents have been upset that she refused because "due to her greed they can't afford an evening out".

If you can find a reliable young teen and they only need to watch the kid a few hours on a Saturday night, great for you. But it's not fair to expect other people to watch your children for next to nothing.

[Dicey]

I think you kind of missed @LWYRUP's point. In their area, there ARE plenty of fifteen year olds who are experienced with small children. I totally related to that response. I'm the oldest of six and I was an experienced and in-demand babysitter by the age of 12. Most of our neighbors were not Catholic, so their families were smaller than ours. Babysitting two or three kids was a piece of cake, because it was easier than being at home.As I got older, I was so in demand that several families drove significant distances to pick me up and take me home. These families were colleagues of my dad's, so you know there was none of that wet diaper, crying all night shit going on. Also, they paid me door-to-door.

What does being paid “door-to-door” mean?

The time from the babysitter’s home and back, rather than amount of time at the family’s home. Essentially, travel time was paid for.

Which reminds me of a story. A colleague of my dad's and neighbor of ours met and married. They bought a house on the other side of town together and adopted two toddlers. They would drive, at least 25 minutes by freeway, to pick me up. One Saturday morning, the dad picked me up with his two-year-old son safely tucked into his car seat in the back of the car. The darling little boy was enamoured of trucks, but not yet in possession of the "tr" sound, so he replaced it with an "f". Consequently, every time he saw a big, shiny vehicle he would shout, "Look, Daddy, fuck!". There were many of these vehicles on the freeway that day and he excitedly pointed them all out. I thought his dad was going to die. Daddy gently corrected him every single time. I thoroughly enjoyed his embarassment, and focused all my energy on not laughing. So @Peachtea is correct. The driving time is paid and it was occasionally quite hilarious.

[penguintroopers]

I had a little boy do exactly the same thing haha. He played with all of his toy cars that way.

[Apples]

Disagree here.  I live in a very expensive area.  Also part of a relatively conservative catholic church with lots of large families.  We have three little ones and that's below average.  I can usually find a 15 year old for $12 an hour.  They are very experienced because they have siblings and mom and dad are usually just a few blocks away.  When they go to college they usually want more money, but there's a neverending supply of 15 year olds.

For $25 an hour, I'm pretty sure my wife and I would take turns going out for the next four years until the oldest turns 10.  $100 bucks for four hours, probably two of which the kids are asleep anyways?  No way.

I do agree that market rates are what they are, but nothing wrong in wanting to find a good deal.

A bit of a necro post, but I'll reiterate.

You get what you pay for.

Yes, you can find a 15 year old for $12-15 an hour.
There aren't a lot of them.  Many 15 year olds don't want to work, or don't have to work.
Also, many 15 year olds are not terribly experienced.

What do you want?  Do you want a teenager to play with your kids for a couple of hours?  The last teen I hired, we got home at 11 pm, the 18 month old was still awake, had cried all night, and was wearing a diaper backwards.  The 7 yo fessed up that the kid cried all evening.  Two weeks later we hired the 30-something.  Got home at 10, both kids asleep in bed.

Also, as mentioned above, we were talking about an infant and 3 other kids under the age of 5.  That's a LOT of kids, mostly likely too much for all but the most experienced teenagers.

For the record...we almost never went out, for years.  Until we found that great babysitter.

Oh my gosh, I *did* this job.  Except the kids were 5, 3.5, 2, and 6 months.  I got them fed, played with, and in bed.  I was 17, and had previously babysat at 15 and 16 when there were only 3 kids.  It was hard, but fun.  I found evening jobs where they were going to end up in bed easier than trying to entertain them through a late morning to afternoon time, and they all wanted to do different things and the toddlers would throw tantrums and the baby would randomly cry.  People like to joke to my DH and I that one day when we have kids, we won't know what hit us!  After that experience, (and having younger siblings, though only 2), I think I know exactly what is in store.

[ixtap]

Disagree here.  I live in a very expensive area.  Also part of a relatively conservative catholic church with lots of large families.  We have three little ones and that's below average.  I can usually find a 15 year old for $12 an hour.  They are very experienced because they have siblings and mom and dad are usually just a few blocks away.  When they go to college they usually want more money, but there's a neverending supply of 15 year olds.

For $25 an hour, I'm pretty sure my wife and I would take turns going out for the next four years until the oldest turns 10.  $100 bucks for four hours, probably two of which the kids are asleep anyways?  No way.

I do agree that market rates are what they are, but nothing wrong in wanting to find a good deal.

A bit of a necro post, but I'll reiterate.

You get what you pay for.

Yes, you can find a 15 year old for $12-15 an hour.
There aren't a lot of them.  Many 15 year olds don't want to work, or don't have to work.
Also, many 15 year olds are not terribly experienced.

What do you want?  Do you want a teenager to play with your kids for a couple of hours?  The last teen I hired, we got home at 11 pm, the 18 month old was still awake, had cried all night, and was wearing a diaper backwards.  The 7 yo fessed up that the kid cried all evening.  Two weeks later we hired the 30-something.  Got home at 10, both kids asleep in bed.

Also, as mentioned above, we were talking about an infant and 3 other kids under the age of 5.  That's a LOT of kids, mostly likely too much for all but the most experienced teenagers.

For the record...we almost never went out, for years.  Until we found that great babysitter.

Oh my gosh, I *did* this job.  Except the kids were 5, 3.5, 2, and 6 months.  I got them fed, played with, and in bed.  I was 17, and had previously babysat at 15 and 16 when there were only 3 kids.  It was hard, but fun.  I found evening jobs where they were going to end up in bed easier than trying to entertain them through a late morning to afternoon time, and they all wanted to do different things and the toddlers would throw tantrums and the baby would randomly cry.  People like to joke to my DH and I that one day when we have kids, we won't know what hit us!  After that experience, (and having younger siblings, though only 2), I think I know exactly what is in store.

I was 11 and there was an angry rabbit in the kitchen. They didn't ask how old I was. They went to their meeting, someone asked who was with the kids, and responded "You left 4 children with an 11 year old?" Most people assumed I was older at that point, as I was fully grown and quiet. I was very much whatever about the kids, but when I babysat for them in the future, they had to put the rabbit outside.

[LWYRUP]

Disagree here.  I live in a very expensive area.  Also part of a relatively conservative catholic church with lots of large families.  We have three little ones and that's below average.  I can usually find a 15 year old for $12 an hour.  They are very experienced because they have siblings and mom and dad are usually just a few blocks away.  When they go to college they usually want more money, but there's a neverending supply of 15 year olds.

For $25 an hour, I'm pretty sure my wife and I would take turns going out for the next four years until the oldest turns 10.  $100 bucks for four hours, probably two of which the kids are asleep anyways?  No way.

I do agree that market rates are what they are, but nothing wrong in wanting to find a good deal.

A bit of a necro post, but I'll reiterate.

You get what you pay for.

Yes, you can find a 15 year old for $12-15 an hour.
There aren't a lot of them.  Many 15 year olds don't want to work, or don't have to work.
Also, many 15 year olds are not terribly experienced.

What do you want?  Do you want a teenager to play with your kids for a couple of hours?  The last teen I hired, we got home at 11 pm, the 18 month old was still awake, had cried all night, and was wearing a diaper backwards.  The 7 yo fessed up that the kid cried all evening.  Two weeks later we hired the 30-something.  Got home at 10, both kids asleep in bed.

Also, as mentioned above, we were talking about an infant and 3 other kids under the age of 5.  That's a LOT of kids, mostly likely too much for all but the most experienced teenagers.

For the record...we almost never went out, for years.  Until we found that great babysitter.

Oh my gosh, I *did* this job.  Except the kids were 5, 3.5, 2, and 6 months.  I got them fed, played with, and in bed.  I was 17, and had previously babysat at 15 and 16 when there were only 3 kids.  It was hard, but fun.  I found evening jobs where they were going to end up in bed easier than trying to entertain them through a late morning to afternoon time, and they all wanted to do different things and the toddlers would throw tantrums and the baby would randomly cry.  People like to joke to my DH and I that one day when we have kids, we won't know what hit us!  After that experience, (and having younger siblings, though only 2), I think I know exactly what is in store.

Sounds about right. 

[Goldielocks]

An infant and three other kids under the age of 5? I wouldn’t be qualified for that job and I have three kids of my own. No way could I expect there to be a teenager on the face of the earth capable of that.

By the age of 15 I was a very experienced babysitter, having started with 9-yr olds when I was 11.  (It was a different generation).

I would not have picked up an evening gig with 4 kids, though, and had only just started sitting for two-three kids, where one was under 18 months.  I also had the experience to say no to the unruly kid families after a meet and greet.

I do recall, at age 14, that one set of parents I sat for (kids aged 3 and 6), were quite upset with me.   You see, I had fallen asleep.  yep.  Friday night, and teenage me had been up since 6am to make my extra-cirricular team before school, and they had intended to be home before 11pm.  And were upset that I had fallen asleep before they got home, late, at midnight.

You get what you pay for.  If you hire a 14 year old.   

FWIW, they found me asleep at the top of the stairs just outside of the kids' room where I was sitting waiting for the kids to fully settle down and I would be walked upon if they got up.

And I was paid $2/hr.

[Rural]

One wonders if they ever slept while the kids were in the house.

[Freedomin5]

This was just posted in our neighborhood chat group. Someone was looking for the contact info of a specific butcher shop so they could host a BBQ for over 100 people. This shop imports premium fresh meat from Australia. Just for fun I looked up the prices online. A meat set that serves 20 was $360. So the cost just for meat for this BBQ would be around $1800.

[SwordGuy]

One wonders if they ever slept while the kids were in the house.

:)

[dcheesi]

Today, on FB:

I am in California.  We've been basically shut down for a little over a month.  Our YMCA shut down on 3/17/2020 officially (my last day there was a week before that), and they immediately sent an email to members.  The email has general "this is a hard time, we are hoping to open April 1, etc.) with other useful info like:

1. Please keep your membership active if you can, it is helpful
2. If you need to cancel or put on hold, contact us here (email)

They sent another email a month later.
Their website has a form you can fill out to put your membership on hold.
Their FB page has periodically had updates - including daily streaming workouts, links to other member benefits, and notes that if you choose to keep your membership, you can get future discounts AND take credit for charitable giving on your taxes.

Today, someone asked how to hold the membership because nobody answers the phone.  So I told them: go to the website, there's a contact form.

Someone else goes OFF on me like "they should automatically hold ALL memberships because it's a SERVICE we aren't getting and WHY DIDN'T THEY TELL US RIGHT AWAY."

Um, they did?  Turns out, this particular lady doesn't have email.  So, she's known that the Y is closed since they closed, but hasn't bothered to figure out how to hold her membership?  We are living in the digital age man...

If she doesn't have email, then she's probably technically illiterate in general. Older folks really have a hard time with all this new-fangled technology. It's not just that it's unfamiliar and they don't want to learn --it's that often they can't learn it the way younger people can.

My dad used to be an engineer for the telephone company, and was an early adopter of personal computing at home in the '80s. Nowadays, he can usually muddle through using software that he's familiar with, but as soon as something goes wrong, he's utterly lost. And if he forgets a password? Might as well just close that account, as he'll never figure out how to recover it. New websites and software are completely beyond him.
 
And this is a guy who's still generally competent, able to make reasoned decisions, balance his checkbook (yes, he still does that), etc. It's just that unfamiliar technology places demands on aging brains that are different and harder than everyday offline life.

Our YMCA is still open, but only to take care of the children of law-enforcement, first responders, etc. I haven't stopped my monthly dues, it's my charitable giving in times of need. A couple of months of dues won't make an effect on my net worth, but I'll be happier knowing my Y will be operational in the future. Been a member since 2006, no plan to stop.

I've been paying for YMCA membership that my SO and I used maybe twice (typical gym membership best-intentions scenario, though at least we didn't sign up in January). I'd been meaning to cancel, but I've decided to wait until they're open again to do it. I can afford it, and cancelling now would feel too much like kicking them while they're down.

[Dave1442397]

If she doesn't have email, then she's probably technically illiterate in general. Older folks really have a hard time with all this new-fangled technology. It's not just that it's unfamiliar and they don't want to learn --it's that often they can't learn it the way younger people can.

My dad used to be an engineer for the telephone company, and was an early adopter of personal computing at home in the '80s. Nowadays, he can usually muddle through using software that he's familiar with, but as soon as something goes wrong, he's utterly lost. And if he forgets a password? Might as well just close that account, as he'll never figure out how to recover it. New websites and software are completely beyond him.
 
And this is a guy who's still generally competent, able to make reasoned decisions, balance his checkbook (yes, he still does that), etc. It's just that unfamiliar technology places demands on aging brains that are different and harder than everyday offline life.

My father should be hired as a QA tester at a tech company. When faced with a tech problem, he pushes buttons until something happens, and it's not usually something good. He once managed to disable the sound on the TV by getting into some service menu that no one else has ever discovered, and his home laptop is unusable at this point. I used to access it remotely to fix it, but he managed to delete that app, and being 3,000 miles away doesn't help.

[Zaga]

If she doesn't have email, then she's probably technically illiterate in general. Older folks really have a hard time with all this new-fangled technology. It's not just that it's unfamiliar and they don't want to learn --it's that often they can't learn it the way younger people can.

My dad used to be an engineer for the telephone company, and was an early adopter of personal computing at home in the '80s. Nowadays, he can usually muddle through using software that he's familiar with, but as soon as something goes wrong, he's utterly lost. And if he forgets a password? Might as well just close that account, as he'll never figure out how to recover it. New websites and software are completely beyond him.
 
And this is a guy who's still generally competent, able to make reasoned decisions, balance his checkbook (yes, he still does that), etc. It's just that unfamiliar technology places demands on aging brains that are different and harder than everyday offline life.

My father should be hired as a QA tester at a tech company. When faced with a tech problem, he pushes buttons until something happens, and it's not usually something good. He once managed to disable the sound on the TV by getting into some service menu that no one else has ever discovered, and his home laptop is unusable at this point. I used to access it remotely to fix it, but he managed to delete that app, and being 3,000 miles away doesn't help.

Your dad is impressive!  One time I managed to get an error in German on a program.  My boss was pretty amazed that I managed that.  The people who wrote the program were also pretty amazed.  (To be fair though, it was a German program).

[DadJokes]

If she doesn't have email, then she's probably technically illiterate in general. Older folks really have a hard time with all this new-fangled technology. It's not just that it's unfamiliar and they don't want to learn --it's that often they can't learn it the way younger people can.

My dad used to be an engineer for the telephone company, and was an early adopter of personal computing at home in the '80s. Nowadays, he can usually muddle through using software that he's familiar with, but as soon as something goes wrong, he's utterly lost. And if he forgets a password? Might as well just close that account, as he'll never figure out how to recover it. New websites and software are completely beyond him.
 
And this is a guy who's still generally competent, able to make reasoned decisions, balance his checkbook (yes, he still does that), etc. It's just that unfamiliar technology places demands on aging brains that are different and harder than everyday offline life.

My father should be hired as a QA tester at a tech company. When faced with a tech problem, he pushes buttons until something happens, and it's not usually something good. He once managed to disable the sound on the TV by getting into some service menu that no one else has ever discovered, and his home laptop is unusable at this point. I used to access it remotely to fix it, but he managed to delete that app, and being 3,000 miles away doesn't help.

I sometimes feel like Newton Pulsifer from Good Omens. Despite being fairly knowledgeable with technology (I actually work in info systems audit), devices inexplicably go to shit when I touch them for no apparent reason.

[shadowmoss]

Then why are you touching them if you have no apparent reason to?

Couldn't resist...

[ysette9]

If she doesn't have email, then she's probably technically illiterate in general. Older folks really have a hard time with all this new-fangled technology. It's not just that it's unfamiliar and they don't want to learn --it's that often they can't learn it the way younger people can.

My dad used to be an engineer for the telephone company, and was an early adopter of personal computing at home in the '80s. Nowadays, he can usually muddle through using software that he's familiar with, but as soon as something goes wrong, he's utterly lost. And if he forgets a password? Might as well just close that account, as he'll never figure out how to recover it. New websites and software are completely beyond him.
 
And this is a guy who's still generally competent, able to make reasoned decisions, balance his checkbook (yes, he still does that), etc. It's just that unfamiliar technology places demands on aging brains that are different and harder than everyday offline life.

My father should be hired as a QA tester at a tech company. When faced with a tech problem, he pushes buttons until something happens, and it's not usually something good. He once managed to disable the sound on the TV by getting into some service menu that no one else has ever discovered, and his home laptop is unusable at this point. I used to access it remotely to fix it, but he managed to delete that app, and being 3,000 miles away doesn't help.

Your dad is impressive!  One time I managed to get an error in German on a program.  My boss was pretty amazed that I managed that.  The people who wrote the program were also pretty amazed.  (To be fair though, it was a German program).

That was pretty much me with Windows and associated programs two jobs ago. I am reasonably computer literate but I always managed to find the most obscure errors on my work computer. I figured it was because it knew I was a Mac person at heart and just had to give me the middle finger every now and again. If I had $0.50 for every time the tech support person said “huh, I’ve never seen that before”, well, I would have retired earlier than I did! I’ll never forget the one time my browser randomly started giving my error messages in meaningless Chinese characters...

[dcheesi]

If she doesn't have email, then she's probably technically illiterate in general. Older folks really have a hard time with all this new-fangled technology. It's not just that it's unfamiliar and they don't want to learn --it's that often they can't learn it the way younger people can.

My dad used to be an engineer for the telephone company, and was an early adopter of personal computing at home in the '80s. Nowadays, he can usually muddle through using software that he's familiar with, but as soon as something goes wrong, he's utterly lost. And if he forgets a password? Might as well just close that account, as he'll never figure out how to recover it. New websites and software are completely beyond him.
 
And this is a guy who's still generally competent, able to make reasoned decisions, balance his checkbook (yes, he still does that), etc. It's just that unfamiliar technology places demands on aging brains that are different and harder than everyday offline life.

My father should be hired as a QA tester at a tech company. When faced with a tech problem, he pushes buttons until something happens, and it's not usually something good. He once managed to disable the sound on the TV by getting into some service menu that no one else has ever discovered, and his home laptop is unusable at this point. I used to access it remotely to fix it, but he managed to delete that app, and being 3,000 miles away doesn't help.

Your dad is impressive!  One time I managed to get an error in German on a program.  My boss was pretty amazed that I managed that.  The people who wrote the program were also pretty amazed.  (To be fair though, it was a German program).

That was pretty much me with Windows and associated programs two jobs ago. I am reasonably computer literate but I always managed to find the most obscure errors on my work computer. I figured it was because it knew I was a Mac person at heart and just had to give me the middle finger every now and again. If I had $0.50 for every time the tech support person said “huh, I’ve never seen that before”, well, I would have retired earlier than I did! I’ll never forget the one time my browser randomly started giving my error messages in meaningless Chinese characters...

Now that you all mention it, dad did have a weird one a while back. He started complaining that he couldn't pay bills online because his browser would just disappear. My brother and I both assumed he was just doing something silly and accidentally minimizing or something. But he finally showed me what was happening, and sure enough, his whole browser was crashing/exiting when he'd hit Submit on a payment on his bank's web interface¹. No warning, no error message or crash dialog, just *poof* it's gone.

Of course it also turned out that he was using Micro$oft's Edge browser, so perhaps I shouldn't be so surprised; switching to Chrome fixed the problem completely. But I had to make a desktop shortcut (ugh) with his bank's name on it so he'd remember to use that instead the Edge icon (which he associated with his bank at that point).

¹ and it wasn't even the first time, but rather the second or third time he submitted a payment that it would crash/exit.

[chicagomeg]

This was just posted in our neighborhood chat group. Someone was looking for the contact info of a specific butcher shop so they could host a BBQ for over 100 people. This shop imports premium fresh meat from Australia. Just for fun I looked up the prices online. A meat set that serves 20 was $360. So the cost just for meat for this BBQ would be around $1800.

I started to be very upset that you knew someone hosting a BBQ for 100 people and then saw you're located in China where life has already returned to normal. What a weird world we're living in now!

[MudPuppy]

but isn't it nice to look forward to when we get to that point ourselves? :)

[frugalnacho]

This was just posted in our neighborhood chat group. Someone was looking for the contact info of a specific butcher shop so they could host a BBQ for over 100 people. This shop imports premium fresh meat from Australia. Just for fun I looked up the prices online. A meat set that serves 20 was $360. So the cost just for meat for this BBQ would be around $1800.

What? That's insane.  That's $18/person.  You could buy premium restaurant quality steaks for every single person for much, much, less than that price. 

[joleran]

What? That's insane.  That's $18/person.  You could buy premium restaurant quality steaks for every single person for much, much, less than that price.

Depends on what it is.  High end Australian Wagyu is not found in stores or in anything but the highest end restaurants, to say nothing of Japanese A5 Wagyu ,which can be $200/lb or more fully trimmed.

[Freedomin5]

This was just posted in our neighborhood chat group. Someone was looking for the contact info of a specific butcher shop so they could host a BBQ for over 100 people. This shop imports premium fresh meat from Australia. Just for fun I looked up the prices online. A meat set that serves 20 was $360. So the cost just for meat for this BBQ would be around $1800.

I started to be very upset that you knew someone hosting a BBQ for 100 people and then saw you're located in China where life has already returned to normal. What a weird world we're living in now!

Actually...you have some right to be upset. Social distancing is still enforced and you are still required to wear masks in public. Also, large social gatherings are still discouraged. So I don’t know how they’re going to have 100 people eating BBQ while maintaining 6 feet distance from everyone else.

[stylesjl]

This was just posted in our neighborhood chat group. Someone was looking for the contact info of a specific butcher shop so they could host a BBQ for over 100 people. This shop imports premium fresh meat from Australia. Just for fun I looked up the prices online. A meat set that serves 20 was $360. So the cost just for meat for this BBQ would be around $1800.

$1800 you say? Perhaps they just got their Stimulus Money...

[Sugaree]

I recently got dragged into a convo about babysitting. There's a mom asking a group what a reasonable price would be for a sitter for 4 kids 5 and under (three age 4, one infant).

Well, mostly the responses were $25-30 an hour, maybe $20.

But she didn't really like that.  So I pointed out that it's FOUR kids UNDER the age of 5.  The # of kids and the age of the kids matter.   Then she and two others went on a HUGE rant about how can ANYONE afford to go out, and that's ridiculous.

It moved on to "well, preschool teachers get $15 / hour for 8 kids under 5!"

I mean, aside from the fact that preschool teachers get benefits AND experienced ones get more than that AND they work close to full time - what are you expecting?  Because my babysitter is/was a preschool teacher.  She's in her 30's.  She's WELL WORTH the extra $ because she plays with the kids and they are asleep in their beds when we get home. 

She needs to make a living too, yes?  And $15 / hour is really peanuts here.  Cleaning ladies make $20+.

(FWIW, I was paying $15-18/hr for 2 kids who were 6 and 12).

I didn't SAY it (but thought about it): Look, you don't like the numbers, don't go out.  You find the unicorn willing to watch your four kids under five, and get them to bed, for $12-15 an hour?  Great, enjoy it.  Otherwise?  Find someone to swap with, or do what we did for 10 years.  Don't go out!  The sitters will tell you what they charge, pay it or stay home.

It's a fair point to say that a part-time babysitting gig is going to be more expensive per hour than a full time childcare job.  It's also highly location dependent.  I keep seeing this post go around FB about how a woman was looking for someone to watch her two kids full-time for ~$100/week.  Most people thought that she was insane or negligent or deserved to lose her kids or whatever.  I live in a super low COLA where full time care in a center can run as low as $95/week/child.  I guarantee that I could find a SAHP willing to take on a couple of extra kids for $100/week. 

[DadJokes]

I recently got dragged into a convo about babysitting. There's a mom asking a group what a reasonable price would be for a sitter for 4 kids 5 and under (three age 4, one infant).

Well, mostly the responses were $25-30 an hour, maybe $20.

But she didn't really like that.  So I pointed out that it's FOUR kids UNDER the age of 5.  The # of kids and the age of the kids matter.   Then she and two others went on a HUGE rant about how can ANYONE afford to go out, and that's ridiculous.

It moved on to "well, preschool teachers get $15 / hour for 8 kids under 5!"

I mean, aside from the fact that preschool teachers get benefits AND experienced ones get more than that AND they work close to full time - what are you expecting?  Because my babysitter is/was a preschool teacher.  She's in her 30's.  She's WELL WORTH the extra $ because she plays with the kids and they are asleep in their beds when we get home. 

She needs to make a living too, yes?  And $15 / hour is really peanuts here.  Cleaning ladies make $20+.

(FWIW, I was paying $15-18/hr for 2 kids who were 6 and 12).

I didn't SAY it (but thought about it): Look, you don't like the numbers, don't go out.  You find the unicorn willing to watch your four kids under five, and get them to bed, for $12-15 an hour?  Great, enjoy it.  Otherwise?  Find someone to swap with, or do what we did for 10 years.  Don't go out!  The sitters will tell you what they charge, pay it or stay home.

It's a fair point to say that a part-time babysitting gig is going to be more expensive per hour than a full time childcare job.  It's also highly location dependent.  I keep seeing this post go around FB about how a woman was looking for someone to watch her two kids full-time for ~$100/week.  Most people thought that she was insane or negligent or deserved to lose her kids or whatever.  I live in a super low COLA where full time care in a center can run as low as $95/week/child.  I guarantee that I could find a SAHP willing to take on a couple of extra kids for $100/week.

When our child was an infant, we paid a SAHM $25/day to keep him during the workday. It felt like an underpayment, but we had to insist, since she wanted to do it for free. Her kids were old enough to be in school, so she was bored.

People like that are out there. It makes childcare a much more reasonable cost.

[ender]

This was just posted in our neighborhood chat group. Someone was looking for the contact info of a specific butcher shop so they could host a BBQ for over 100 people. This shop imports premium fresh meat from Australia. Just for fun I looked up the prices online. A meat set that serves 20 was $360. So the cost just for meat for this BBQ would be around $1800.

$1800 you say? Perhaps they just got their Stimulus Money...

in China?

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I recently got dragged into a convo about babysitting. There's a mom asking a group what a reasonable price would be for a sitter for 4 kids 5 and under (three age 4, one infant).

Well, mostly the responses were $25-30 an hour, maybe $20.

But she didn't really like that.  So I pointed out that it's FOUR kids UNDER the age of 5.  The # of kids and the age of the kids matter.   Then she and two others went on a HUGE rant about how can ANYONE afford to go out, and that's ridiculous.

It moved on to "well, preschool teachers get $15 / hour for 8 kids under 5!"

I mean, aside from the fact that preschool teachers get benefits AND experienced ones get more than that AND they work close to full time - what are you expecting?  Because my babysitter is/was a preschool teacher.  She's in her 30's.  She's WELL WORTH the extra $ because she plays with the kids and they are asleep in their beds when we get home. 

She needs to make a living too, yes?  And $15 / hour is really peanuts here.  Cleaning ladies make $20+.

(FWIW, I was paying $15-18/hr for 2 kids who were 6 and 12).

I didn't SAY it (but thought about it): Look, you don't like the numbers, don't go out.  You find the unicorn willing to watch your four kids under five, and get them to bed, for $12-15 an hour?  Great, enjoy it.  Otherwise?  Find someone to swap with, or do what we did for 10 years.  Don't go out!  The sitters will tell you what they charge, pay it or stay home.

It's a fair point to say that a part-time babysitting gig is going to be more expensive per hour than a full time childcare job.  It's also highly location dependent.  I keep seeing this post go around FB about how a woman was looking for someone to watch her two kids full-time for ~$100/week.  Most people thought that she was insane or negligent or deserved to lose her kids or whatever.  I live in a super low COLA where full time care in a center can run as low as $95/week/child.  I guarantee that I could find a SAHP willing to take on a couple of extra kids for $100/week.

When our child was an infant, we paid a SAHM $25/day to keep him during the workday. It felt like an underpayment, but we had to insist, since she wanted to do it for free. Her kids were old enough to be in school, so she was bored.

People like that are out there. It makes childcare a much more reasonable cost.

Indeed, and to get that kind of help and support from another household it's necessary to have a real-life, in-person social network. Sometimes people inherit one by being born into a basically functional extended family and by living close enough to rely on them. Other times people build networks through a neighborhood, a church, a club, a school, or some other place where people can form lasting ties and also get to know each other really well. Building a network like that from scratch requires an investment of time and social capital that many people with young children simply haven't made.

One of the "but-but-but" objections I often hear to peer babysitting is that people don't want to leave their children with "a stranger" or someone not licensed and credentialed, and that they don't have a social network. This is generally because they haven't taken the time to build one. It involves a lot of socializing-- yes, for an introvert that's often "work"-- and a lot of doing favors for other people. It's not necessarily a quid pro quo so much as getting out there and contributing to the community.

[DadJokes]

I recently got dragged into a convo about babysitting. There's a mom asking a group what a reasonable price would be for a sitter for 4 kids 5 and under (three age 4, one infant).

Well, mostly the responses were $25-30 an hour, maybe $20.

But she didn't really like that.  So I pointed out that it's FOUR kids UNDER the age of 5.  The # of kids and the age of the kids matter.   Then she and two others went on a HUGE rant about how can ANYONE afford to go out, and that's ridiculous.

It moved on to "well, preschool teachers get $15 / hour for 8 kids under 5!"

I mean, aside from the fact that preschool teachers get benefits AND experienced ones get more than that AND they work close to full time - what are you expecting?  Because my babysitter is/was a preschool teacher.  She's in her 30's.  She's WELL WORTH the extra $ because she plays with the kids and they are asleep in their beds when we get home. 

She needs to make a living too, yes?  And $15 / hour is really peanuts here.  Cleaning ladies make $20+.

(FWIW, I was paying $15-18/hr for 2 kids who were 6 and 12).

I didn't SAY it (but thought about it): Look, you don't like the numbers, don't go out.  You find the unicorn willing to watch your four kids under five, and get them to bed, for $12-15 an hour?  Great, enjoy it.  Otherwise?  Find someone to swap with, or do what we did for 10 years.  Don't go out!  The sitters will tell you what they charge, pay it or stay home.

It's a fair point to say that a part-time babysitting gig is going to be more expensive per hour than a full time childcare job.  It's also highly location dependent.  I keep seeing this post go around FB about how a woman was looking for someone to watch her two kids full-time for ~$100/week.  Most people thought that she was insane or negligent or deserved to lose her kids or whatever.  I live in a super low COLA where full time care in a center can run as low as $95/week/child.  I guarantee that I could find a SAHP willing to take on a couple of extra kids for $100/week.

When our child was an infant, we paid a SAHM $25/day to keep him during the workday. It felt like an underpayment, but we had to insist, since she wanted to do it for free. Her kids were old enough to be in school, so she was bored.

People like that are out there. It makes childcare a much more reasonable cost.

Indeed, and to get that kind of help and support from another household it's necessary to have a real-life, in-person social network. Sometimes people inherit one by being born into a basically functional extended family and by living close enough to rely on them. Other times people build networks through a neighborhood, a church, a club, a school, or some other place where people can form lasting ties and also get to know each other really well. Building a network like that from scratch requires an investment of time and social capital that many people with young children simply haven't made.

One of the "but-but-but" objections I often hear to peer babysitting is that people don't want to leave their children with "a stranger" or someone not licensed and credentialed, and that they don't have a social network. This is generally because they haven't taken the time to build one. It involves a lot of socializing-- yes, for an introvert that's often "work"-- and a lot of doing favors for other people. It's not necessarily a quid pro quo so much as getting out there and contributing to the community.

Agreed.

In our case, it was the mom of a student my wife had taught (she's an elementary school teacher). But she also has a lot of contacts from church and friends of her parents. For me, I'd be limited to asking my coworkers.

[ducky19]

I feel like this thread has strayed from "overheard on Facebook" to "how much a babysitter should cost", but maybe that's just me. I'll attempt to sway the conversation back a little...

Saw a post a week ago from a high school friend (not close) that went into how she went to return her leased BMW to the dealership but they refused to take it back unless she signed a new lease. Nevermind that she is under no obligation to keep the car after the lease is up and the dealer is on the hook for the car. She excitedly dropped two grand for the up front fee and locked in for another two year lease, because... "new car!". Just saw yesterday that same friend lost her job and has "no idea how they are going to survive."

[Jouer]

Overheard on Twitter.

I really wish anyone who described consumables as an investment was required to post a year later about the ROI of said investment. Instagram likes don't count.

The best therapist is the therapist that calls you on your bullshit. The money she's spending on that "investment" also seems misplaced.

If it was for a paid gig, I could see it.  Unclear from the tweet what the purpose of the purchase was.

Same way toner carriages would be an investment if you have a business.

That's what I was thinking, although I am not qualified enough in the hair department to really know.

(It's also possible the thairapist didn't actually say this or mean this.)

I'm willing to bet on a zero percent chance that this interaction actually happened. It was all made up to brag about
1. extensions
2. SXSW

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I feel like this thread has strayed from "overheard on Facebook" to "how much a babysitter should cost", but maybe that's just me. I'll attempt to sway the conversation back a little...

Saw a post a week ago from a high school friend (not close) that went into how she went to return her leased BMW to the dealership but they refused to take it back unless she signed a new lease. Nevermind that she is under no obligation to keep the car after the lease is up and the dealer is on the hook for the car. She excitedly dropped two grand for the up front fee and locked in for another two year lease, because... "new car!". Just saw yesterday that same friend lost her job and has "no idea how they are going to survive."

It's definitely a different kind of social network. When it comes to social capital, how reliable is a social media network in terms of finding labor or help, compared to an in-person network?

[Imma]

I feel like this thread has strayed from "overheard on Facebook" to "how much a babysitter should cost", but maybe that's just me. I'll attempt to sway the conversation back a little...

Saw a post a week ago from a high school friend (not close) that went into how she went to return her leased BMW to the dealership but they refused to take it back unless she signed a new lease. Nevermind that she is under no obligation to keep the car after the lease is up and the dealer is on the hook for the car. She excitedly dropped two grand for the up front fee and locked in for another two year lease, because... "new car!". Just saw yesterday that same friend lost her job and has "no idea how they are going to survive."

It's definitely a different kind of social network. When it comes to social capital, how reliable is a social media network in terms of finding labor or help, compared to an in-person network?

In my city, a Facebook page where people offer help to others during quarantaine is very succesful! It has really connected a lot of people with each other.

I agree about building in-person networks, but it's difficult in my city. Unlike my hometown where people settle down for life or a long period of time, in my urban environment a lot of people are transient. They live here for one year and move away the next. It's hard to build lasting local connections no matter how hard I try. I do keep in touch with people who live all over the world now which is nice but not the same as a local friend.

[shelivesthedream]

I'm having a big problem with building a social network because of people moving. Honestly, everyone I have met and liked where we are now (we moved a year ago) is moving in a year or two (or has moved already!) and we're moving in a little over two years. It's a life goal for me to find somewhere to live and bloody well stay there. But circumstances keep conspiring against us.

[LWYRUP]

I'm guessing that's your age and where you live.  When I was in my twenties and lived near the CBD everyone was moving all the time.  Now in my 30s with a house in the suburbs, I think only one person in the 20 houses near me has moved in the last 4 years.   Moves tend to be to retirement homes.

[shelivesthedream]

It is (29 and 30, living in London), but with two young children this is the time when we most need a close social network in physical proximity and basically can't have one because everyone (includes us) moves all the time and at any rate have the least energy to cultivate one while we are in any given place. It's intensely frustrating.

[Just Joe]

My father should be hired as a QA tester at a tech company. When faced with a tech problem, he pushes buttons until something happens, and it's not usually something good. He once managed to disable the sound on the TV by getting into some service menu that no one else has ever discovered, and his home laptop is unusable at this point. I used to access it remotely to fix it, but he managed to delete that app, and being 3,000 miles away doesn't help.

My in-laws are like that. Everytime I visit I tune up their computer and fix whatever they break. Then we go home. More often than not, they'll break it in some creative way before we return. I ended up installing Mint Linux as a dual boot option so they have something they can use if they render Windows useless.

Funny how Firefox (Linux) is "different" than Firefox (Windows) to some people. The desktop manager is KDE so its very Windows like. Fortunately they never seem to break Linux.

We have elderly friends who eventually just switched over to using Mint Linux full time and love it. I had them set up with dual boot too. 

[Imma]

I'm guessing that's your age and where you live.  When I was in my twenties and lived near the CBD everyone was moving all the time.  Now in my 30s with a house in the suburbs, I think only one person in the 20 houses near me has moved in the last 4 years.   Moves tend to be to retirement homes.

We are early 30s and have lived in the same street in a quiet residential area for 5 years. Because we are frugal we were quite young when we bought this house and we are still by far the youngest residents. I think at least 2/3 of the people are retired. Young people who aren't mustachian can't afford to buy unless they (or their parents) are really wealthy and in that case they live in a much more fancy area.

It took our neighbours a long time to get used to us (Mr Imma has long hair and we have purple curtains! ) but we're friendly now. We have people that will look after our plants and mail when we're on holiday. But that's different from a real friend.

[LWYRUP]

I'm guessing that's your age and where you live.  When I was in my twenties and lived near the CBD everyone was moving all the time.  Now in my 30s with a house in the suburbs, I think only one person in the 20 houses near me has moved in the last 4 years.   Moves tend to be to retirement homes.

We are early 30s and have lived in the same street in a quiet residential area for 5 years. Because we are frugal we were quite young when we bought this house and we are still by far the youngest residents. I think at least 2/3 of the people are retired. Young people who aren't mustachian can't afford to buy unless they (or their parents) are really wealthy and in that case they live in a much more fancy area.

It took our neighbours a long time to get used to us (Mr Imma has long hair and we have purple curtains! ) but we're friendly now. We have people that will look after our plants and mail when we're on holiday. But that's different from a real friend.

I moved to somewhere known for a relatively tight knit community (relatively rare in USA big cities).  Sometimes that's been good, but we haven't totally embraced or been embraced by the clique.  Which is actually fine in retrospect because I've never really been that type of person anywhere.  But the stability of living in the same place for four years now has allowed us to meet other people relatively close by but in other neighborhoods who are also reasonably settled and that's been very nice. 

Based on my experience, I don't think it's worth it to buy into a specific neighborhood or street or something for the community unless you are literally already part of it and just moving closer.  But living somewhere that is less transient can still be good for building bonds over time.  STLD, I know from past lurking that you are thinking of eventually moving somewhere more rural -- I am guessing once you do that things will feel different. 

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I'm guessing that's your age and where you live.  When I was in my twenties and lived near the CBD everyone was moving all the time.  Now in my 30s with a house in the suburbs, I think only one person in the 20 houses near me has moved in the last 4 years.   Moves tend to be to retirement homes.

We are early 30s and have lived in the same street in a quiet residential area for 5 years. Because we are frugal we were quite young when we bought this house and we are still by far the youngest residents. I think at least 2/3 of the people are retired. Young people who aren't mustachian can't afford to buy unless they (or their parents) are really wealthy and in that case they live in a much more fancy area.

It took our neighbours a long time to get used to us (Mr Imma has long hair and we have purple curtains! ) but we're friendly now. We have people that will look after our plants and mail when we're on holiday. But that's different from a real friend.

Neighbour relationships are friendly, not friends. I mean they're friendly enough that you're letting people into your house while you're away to water plants. That sounds ideal to me. I wouldn't really want my neighbours to be closer than that. We help each other out from time to time, and we chat in the street. They're close enough relationships that I could go and talk to them if something was bothering me about the way they ran their household - for instance, I did ask one neighbour if he would consider 9am on a sunday for the start of power tool use, rather than 6am. And I had a neighbour ask me if my friend with the motorbike could please not ride it up my driveway when visiting because it shakes their whole house. How much closer to neighbours would you really want to be?