Overheard on Facebook

[grantmeaname]

Good Christians aren't allowed to have sex? There must not be very many of them.

[frugalnacho]

Good Christians aren't allowed to have sex? There must not be very many of them.

Only with their spouse.  And no, most of them seem to be hypocrites.

[GuitarStv]

Kinda like a good Christian reading sex novels.

Christians can't enjoy sex?  Which part of the bible says that?

[CheapskateWife]

I didn't read all the 8000 posts on this thread but it occurred to me -- Why is any Mustachian spending any time on Facebook?   Kinda like a good Christian reading sex novels.

As long as the novels contained hot married sex, I don't see the problem.  Heck, Song of Solomon is dirrrty...

But then, I'm not a very good Christian.

[frugalnacho]

Kinda like a good Christian reading sex novels.

Christians can't enjoy sex?  Which part of the bible says that?

Only with their spouse.  Pretty sure having fantasies about other people is considered a sin.

[GuitarStv]

Kinda like a good Christian reading sex novels.

Christians can't enjoy sex?  Which part of the bible says that?

Only with their spouse.  Pretty sure having fantasies about other people is considered a sin.

I was under the impression that as long as you're not spilling seed wantonly on the ground and as long as you're not fucking someone other than your spouse there isn't really anything in the bible to prevent enjoying porn.

[frugalnacho]

Kinda like a good Christian reading sex novels.

Christians can't enjoy sex?  Which part of the bible says that?

Only with their spouse.  Pretty sure having fantasies about other people is considered a sin.

I was under the impression that as long as you're not spilling seed wantonly on the ground and as long as you're not fucking someone other than your spouse there isn't really anything in the bible to prevent enjoying porn.

Did we read the same bible?  Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife. 

EDIT: Also lust is one of the seven deadly sins.

[GuitarStv]

Well, it looks like I was misinformed.  Christians are not allowed to be sensual (Galatians 5:19), or to look at naked women (Matt. 5:28).  Pornography is actually demonic (1 John 2:16).

Hmmm.  Not sure exactly how the above squares away with the porno section of the bible (Song of songs), but I digress.

[frugalnacho]

The bible is full of contradictions.  Best not to take it literally.  Or at all imo.

[zephyr911]

I was under the impression that as long as you're not spilling seed wantonly on the ground and as long as you're not fucking someone other than your spouse there isn't really anything in the bible to prevent enjoying porn.

Cue rant:

There is little or no biblical support for *most* of the sex-related prohibitions variously endorsed by churches throughout history. In some cases, church teaching even blatantly contradicts scripture.

Take the concept of "sodomy", for example. It means mouth and/or butt sex, right? NOPE. Ezekiel 16:49 explicitly states that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was that they were arrogant, heartless, and overfed, and didn't help the poor. So, as one of my friends recently quipped, the actual biblical definition of sodomy is "voting Republican"... lulz xD

Another good one: many churches have historically condemned masturbation as "onanism", another clear and obvious misrepresentation of scripture. Onan was killed by God for "spilling his seed", but his specific act was not masturbation but rather coitus interruptus. And even that act is not specifically prohibited in the Bible; rather, it was his disobedience to a direct command that he father children with his dead brother's wife that got him off- err, offed. His sin was going through the motions of obedience and trying to make it look like he followed through, while secretly disobeying. (Side note: can you blame him? If my bro died and you made me bang his widow, I'd do my best to enjoy it, but the last thing I'd wanna do is knock her up)

Those two are among my favorites because the popular mainstream doctrine directly contradicts the bible... most of the other cases involve proscriptions that have no clear basis in scripture but rather stem from tenuous interpretations of really generic language (like "be fruitful and multiply" meaning birth control is a sin, no matter how overpopulated the Earth gets or how many people suffer from starvation).

Stuff like this is why I've concluded culture and politics are the primary drivers of church doctrine, and the religious/theological rationale is generally an afterthought.

EDIT: Also lust is one of the seven deadly sins.

The seven deadlies aren't in the bible either. They were a product of medieval pop culture, back when the good book was only printed in Latin and nobody could read it. They were really intended as a sort of quick-reference test for laymen evaluating possible sin... if a specific action resembled one of those things, it was probably a bad idea and you shouldn't do it.

[Pooperman]

I was under the impression that as long as you're not spilling seed wantonly on the ground and as long as you're not fucking someone other than your spouse there isn't really anything in the bible to prevent enjoying porn.

Cue rant:

There is little or no biblical support for *most* of the sex-related prohibitions variously endorsed by churches throughout history. In some cases, church teaching even blatantly contradicts scripture.

Take the concept of "sodomy", for example. It means mouth and/or butt sex, right? NOPE. Ezekiel 16:49 explicitly states that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was that they were arrogant, heartless, and overfed, and didn't help the poor. So, as one of my friends recently quipped, the actual biblical definition of sodomy is "voting Republican"... lulz xD

Another good one: many churches have historically condemned masturbation as "onanism", another clear and obvious misrepresentation of scripture. Onan was killed by God for "spilling his seed", but his specific act was not masturbation but rather coitus interruptus. And even that act is not specifically prohibited in the Bible; rather, it was his disobedience to a direct command that he father children with his dead brother's wife that got him off- err, offed. His sin was going through the motions of obedience and trying to make it look like he followed through, while secretly disobeying. (Side note: can you blame him? If my bro died and you made me bang his widow, I'd do my best to enjoy it, but the last thing I'd wanna do is knock her up)

Those two are among my favorites because the popular mainstream doctrine directly contradicts the bible... most of the other cases involve proscriptions that have no clear basis in scripture but rather stem from tenuous interpretations of really generic language (like "be fruitful and multiply" meaning birth control is a sin, no matter how overpopulated the Earth gets or how many people suffer from starvation).

Stuff like this is why I've concluded culture and politics are the primary drivers of church doctrine, and the religious/theological rationale is generally an afterthought.

EDIT: Also lust is one of the seven deadly sins.

The seven deadlies aren't in the bible either. They were a product of medieval pop culture, back when the good book was only printed in Latin and nobody could read it. They were really intended as a sort of quick-reference test for laymen evaluating possible sin... if a specific action resembled one of those things, it was probably a bad idea and you shouldn't do it.

Bolded that part 'cause that actually happened in my family. Great grandfather married his dead brother's widow and had 4 kids in addition to his step-son/nephew.

[frugalnacho]

The seven deadlies aren't in the bible either. They were a product of medieval pop culture, back when the good book was only printed in Latin and nobody could read it. They were really intended as a sort of quick-reference test for laymen evaluating possible sin... if a specific action resembled one of those things, it was probably a bad idea and you shouldn't do it.

They are not explicitly listed as the seven deadly sins in the bible but they are most certainly there, and the list was derived from the bible.  Specifically for lust:

Matthew 5:28

27"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; 28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.…

[Travis]

I didn't read all the 8000 posts on this thread but it occurred to me -- Why is any Mustachian spending any time on Facebook?   Kinda like a good Christian reading sex novels.

Facebook is for the rest of the world IMHO.

Because we have friends?  I fail to see how it's remotely relevant.

I agree. What in the world does facebook have to do with being mustachian?

Where else would I see baby pictures from all my friends who do not live near me?

In a way it does jive with MMM's desire for a low information diet.  I'm on Facebook every day, but it's to talk to a handful of people at most.  I have 150 friends, but I only see the feeds from maybe 20 of them.  I love my friends and family, but sometimes they drive me nuts with constant online game posts, nonstop selfies, and scripture quotes.  With the election cycle spinning up I'm also hiding friends who do nothing but share posts from political propaganda sites and comment on how this is cutting edge journalism.  I also have a few friends who have firmly affixed their tinfoil hats so I no longer see their conspiracy rants.

[Travis]

Details on the temper tantrums? This is the thread for mocking the bad decisions of others, after all.

He was an Army satellite terminal operator with a secret security clearance.  As an E-4 he made about $30k a year. On the outside he could easily make three times this doing a number of related jobs.  When it came to doing his specific job he performed as well as his peers. When it came to being a soldier and doing the simple stuff he was a failure.  He had no motivation to exercise, became offended by his superiors telling him what to do all the time, and flat out told me to my face he didn't understand why he needed to know how to shoot and conduct first aid as long as he knew how to do his technical job.  Unfortunately that attitude slips in with some of the more technical fields every now and then. The final straw was at a shooting range a month before we deployed to Afghanistan he got into an argument with the NCO running the control tower and rather than follow simple instructions he threw his rifle into the dirt and stomped off. "Whiny spoiled teenager" was the description I received about his behavior.  In addition to the insubordination he damaged the rifle (thankfully it wasn't loaded).  I told my boss I'd rather be short handed than have to babysit him in combat.  He was out of the Army a few weeks later.

[zephyr911]

Just curious, are you at Redstone?

Yep. Not a bad place at all. If I weren't such a weird square-peg-round-hole guy, I could get comfy in this job for another 3 decades... stupid dreams and stuff.

[zephyr911]

They are not explicitly listed as the seven deadly sins in the bible but they are most certainly there, and the list was derived from the bible. 

Right, I get that... just pointing out that 7DS aren't described as such therein. They're simple, easily recognized categories formed as part of a much later commentary. And for most people, they're perfect. Most people don't want to have to think that hard about doctrine, they just want to live according to instinct and feel like they're on the right side of things.

[MgoSam]

Details on the temper tantrums? This is the thread for mocking the bad decisions of others, after all.

He was an Army satellite terminal operator with a secret security clearance.  As an E-4 he made about $30k a year. On the outside he could easily make three times this doing a number of related jobs.  When it came to doing his specific job he performed as well as his peers. When it came to being a soldier and doing the simple stuff he was a failure.  He had no motivation to exercise, became offended by his superiors telling him what to do all the time, and flat out told me to my face he didn't understand why he needed to know how to shoot and conduct first aid as long as he knew how to do his technical job.  Unfortunately that attitude slips in with some of the more technical fields every now and then. The final straw was at a shooting range a month before we deployed to Afghanistan he got into an argument with the NCO running the control tower and rather than follow simple instructions he threw his rifle into the dirt and stomped off. "Whiny spoiled teenager" was the description I received about his behavior.  In addition to the insubordination he damaged the rifle (thankfully it wasn't loaded).  I told my boss I'd rather be short handed than have to babysit him in combat.  He was out of the Army a few weeks later.

Doesn't think he needs to shoot? Reminds me of this clip from 'Starship Troopers,'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaUsvc9wReU

Sucks that his attitutde got in the way, and that instead of making 30k, with a higher upside, he is now working at fast food. My guess is that if he served his term and was honorably discharged, he would be able to get a better job. Unless of course he wanted to work at fast food, like Kevin Spacey's character in 'American Beauty.'

[frugalnacho]

They are not explicitly listed as the seven deadly sins in the bible but they are most certainly there, and the list was derived from the bible. 

Right, I get that... just pointing out that 7DS aren't described as such therein. They're simple, easily recognized categories formed as part of a much later commentary. And for most people, they're perfect. Most people don't want to have to think that hard about doctrine, they just want to live according to instinct and feel like they're on the right side of things.

True, but I believe all of the deadly sins on the list are easily supported by various bible verses.  Lust is one of those 7 deadly sins, and you can definitely construct a bible-based argument as to why it's a deadly sin.

Basically my point was that viewing pornography is a sin according to the bible.  I don't see how there can possibly be any other interpretation based on the bible.

[zephyr911]

True, but I believe all of the deadly sins on the list are easily supported by various bible verses.  Lust is one of those 7 deadly sins, and you can definitely construct a bible-based argument as to why it's a deadly sin.

Absolutely. 100% concur.

Basically my point was that viewing pornography is a sin according to the bible.  I don't see how there can possibly be any other interpretation based on the bible.

Of course, and my intent wasn't to dispute that. If you watch porn without committing adultery in your heart, you're wasting your time ;)

[MishMash]

Today's exclaimation-riddled rantings: "A married private with 3 kids can't be expected to invest 5% of his income!"  "The only way to make this work is to increase the pay scale to cover this investment requirement dollar for dollar!"

Here's a wild idea: don't have three kids at 20 years old if you're not sure you can afford to raise them.  People across the nation invest in their futures from their own pockets.  We're not that special.  It drives me nuts with this mentality that EVERYONE should offer a military discount and service members should not be required to do anything that might be construed as personal responsibility.  Any words to the contrary and you're an un-American liberal.  I get labeled an elitist and out of touch officer for suggesting a Private probably doesn't need a $150/month cell phone plan and car that costs his entirely annual income.

You should have seen the responses I got when I said the same thing on a spouses forum and extended it to include that spouses should never receive a discount.  You would have thought I suggested sacrificing their first born child.  I got everything from the "but we SERVE TOO!!" (and got into a multiple post argument with a woman that SWORE she was equally as important and in the Army as her husband was even though she was unemployed, on her third kid at 22, and had no education/marketable skills to speak of) to "we sacrifice more then civilians so we are better and deserve more".  Pretty much similar responses that I get when I suggest Tricare start charging premiums and copays for families (leave AD member free but charge for additional family members)...it frankly disgusts me because the vast majority of this BS comes from people that have never had to function or survive in the civilian environment so they don't realize what a sweet deal they have.

[GuitarStv]

True, but I believe all of the deadly sins on the list are easily supported by various bible verses.  Lust is one of those 7 deadly sins, and you can definitely construct a bible-based argument as to why it's a deadly sin.

Absolutely. 100% concur.

Basically my point was that viewing pornography is a sin according to the bible.  I don't see how there can possibly be any other interpretation based on the bible.

Of course, and my intent wasn't to dispute that. If you watch porn without committing adultery in your heart, you're wasting your time ;)

We still haven't covered that there is pornography in the bible.  If viewing pornography is a sin, how does one go about reading The Song of Songs?

[zephyr911]

We still haven't covered that there is pornography in the bible.  If viewing pornography is a sin, how does one go about reading The Song of Songs?

I can see where you're coming from, but some would disagree. SofS is pretty graphic, sure, but the standard line is that it was intended as a description of the love between a husband and his wife, not just for the base gratification of the desires of "whoever". Supposedly it was also only allowed to be read by people over a certain age (I think I heard 40?) who presumably would have been married or in the priesthood.

Regardless, I don't know if I can picture some ancient Hebrew guy hiding in his tent with a copy of it....

[Travis]

Today's exclaimation-riddled rantings: "A married private with 3 kids can't be expected to invest 5% of his income!"  "The only way to make this work is to increase the pay scale to cover this investment requirement dollar for dollar!"

Here's a wild idea: don't have three kids at 20 years old if you're not sure you can afford to raise them.  People across the nation invest in their futures from their own pockets.  We're not that special.  It drives me nuts with this mentality that EVERYONE should offer a military discount and service members should not be required to do anything that might be construed as personal responsibility.  Any words to the contrary and you're an un-American liberal.  I get labeled an elitist and out of touch officer for suggesting a Private probably doesn't need a $150/month cell phone plan and car that costs his entirely annual income.

You should have seen the responses I got when I said the same thing on a spouses forum and extended it to include that spouses should never receive a discount.  You would have thought I suggested sacrificing their first born child.  I got everything from the "but we SERVE TOO!!" (and got into a multiple post argument with a woman that SWORE she was equally as important and in the Army as her husband was even though she was unemployed, on her third kid at 22, and had no education/marketable skills to speak of) to "we sacrifice more then civilians so we are better and deserve more".  Pretty much similar responses that I get when I suggest Tricare start charging premiums and copays for families (leave AD member free but charge for additional family members)...it frankly disgusts me because the vast majority of this BS comes from people that have never had to function or survive in the civilian environment so they don't realize what a sweet deal they have.

The "Dependapotamus" meme has certainly made the rounds, and unfortunately like many stereotypes it is at least grounded in some degree of reality.  Sometimes I chide my wife when we're shopping together and she asks about a military discount when I don't.  I'm all for saving a buck, but when we're literally talking about $1 I just don't want the trouble. As far as wearing the husband's rank, there was a famous incident at Fort Bragg a few years ago where the brigade commander let his wife run rampant and make life hell for the unit while he stood by and watched.  She's now banned from the post.  A few years ago I worked for a guy whose wife double parked outside his office one day and when the MPs came to ticket her, she started an argument that began with "Do you have any idea who my husband is?!"  He was a company commander, it's not like she was married to Patton.

[zephyr911]

As far as wearing the husband's rank, there was a famous incident at Fort Bragg a few years ago where the brigade commander let his wife run rampant and make life hell for the unit while he stood by and watched.  She's now banned from the post. 

Holy. Crap. COL and Mrs. Drinkwine, I presume?
I had to look that up and read a couple of stories on it. That's some of the craziest shit I've ever heard.

[gimp]

How the hell did he keep his job? What a failure, both of them. Dependapotamuses (dependapotami?) are real. Sorry, your job of staying home is not on the same planet as being on active duty. Stop pretending.

On the other topic, it's fascinating to see how much of our "knowledge" of christianity in fact comes from Milton and Dante. It's also fascinating to see how few christians have ever, you know, read the bible, let alone milton and dante. I know if I had a holy book, I'd at least read the damn thing. Hell, we even read it in high school (not public, ha) because it's fairly important to our understanding of western culture...

[MishMash]

As far as wearing the husband's rank, there was a famous incident at Fort Bragg a few years ago where the brigade commander let his wife run rampant and make life hell for the unit while he stood by and watched.  She's now banned from the post. 

Holy. Crap. COL and Mrs. Drinkwine, I presume?
I had to look that up and read a couple of stories on it. That's some of the craziest shit I've ever heard.

wow, yea second the holy crap, I had to look that one up too, the fact he wasn't told to retire or bumped down is appalling.  I keep holding out hope I'll find a normal spouse to be friends with one of these days....crap like that makes me lose hope (which in all reality I should have lost years ago seeing as we've lived at several posts, spanning many years, and I have yet to find one).  In the meantime I'll just stick to my non married to someone in the military friends, they at least keep their level of crazy in check.

[Trouble]

"Finally paid off our vacuum cleaner, it means one less bill every fortnight. Yay!"
Egads! Putting a vacuum cleaner on credit :(

[cerebus]

"Finally paid off our vacuum cleaner, it means one less bill every fortnight. Yay!"
Egads! Putting a vacuum cleaner on credit :(

We bought a TV on credit when we first got married. Not a fancy LCD mind you, a bogstandard old CRT. When we discovered 3 years later that we were still paying off a $100 tv, it became the last thing we ever got on credit and a bloody good lesson. Ai... old me is ashamed of young-me.

[MgoSam]

"Finally paid off our vacuum cleaner, it means one less bill every fortnight. Yay!"
Egads! Putting a vacuum cleaner on credit :(

We bought a TV on credit when we first got married. Not a fancy LCD mind you, a bogstandard old CRT. When we discovered 3 years later that we were still paying off a $100 tv, it became the last thing we ever got on credit and a bloody good lesson. Ai... old me is ashamed of young-me.

To me, that sounds like money well-spent. In return for paying off a $100 item over 3 years (don't know how much in interest costs added-on), you get a valuable life-long lesson.

[zephyr911]

"Finally paid off our vacuum cleaner, it means one less bill every fortnight. Yay!"
Egads! Putting a vacuum cleaner on credit :(

I actually put my refurb Dyson on an 18-month, 0% plan... I had moved recently and had no furniture or savings, so it helped to be able to space out the cost of durable goods. Of course, if these people were paying enough that it actually made a difference in their cash flow, as opposed to my $17, I shudder to think what the price was.
I used to know a guy who sold Kirbys... incredibly gifted with people, and thus a great salesman, but bored with life because things came too easily to him. It's a shame he didn't put his talents to better use. He was in jail last time I heard from him....

[celticmyst08]

It's home buying season. Several FB friends have posted statuses about how "blessed" they are that they were approved for a mortgage and how God has "blessed" them with a great house. Then they post pictures -- 5 bedroom, suburban, cookie-cutter McMansions.

I've always thought, if you were so worried about getting approved for a mortgage that you considered it a blessing from God when you did get approved.... maaaaaybe you shouldn't be trying to buy a house? Ughhh.

[Pooperman]

"Finally paid off our vacuum cleaner, it means one less bill every fortnight. Yay!"
Egads! Putting a vacuum cleaner on credit :(

I actually put my refurb Dyson on an 18-month, 0% plan... I had moved recently and had no furniture or savings, so it helped to be able to space out the cost of durable goods. Of course, if these people were paying enough that it actually made a difference in their cash flow, as opposed to my $17, I shudder to think what the price was.
I used to know a guy who sold Kirbys... incredibly gifted with people, and thus a great salesman, but bored with life because things came too easily to him. It's a shame he didn't put his talents to better use. He was in jail last time I heard from him....

Just bought a used one for $125 because needed a vacuum and didn't want to buy a crappy $50 one year after year.

[dragoncar]

It's home buying season. Several FB friends have posted statuses about how "blessed" they are that they were approved for a mortgage and how God has "blessed" them with a great house. Then they post pictures -- 5 bedroom, suburban, cookie-cutter McMansions.

I've always thought, if you were so worried about getting approved for a mortgage that you considered it a blessing from God when you did get approved.... maaaaaybe you shouldn't be trying to buy a house? Ughhh.

I think it's just a humble brag. Goes over better than "look at the huge house I can afford to shelter my monster dong.  Suck it bitchez!!!"

[frugalnacho]

It's home buying season. Several FB friends have posted statuses about how "blessed" they are that they were approved for a mortgage and how God has "blessed" them with a great house. Then they post pictures -- 5 bedroom, suburban, cookie-cutter McMansions.

I've always thought, if you were so worried about getting approved for a mortgage that you considered it a blessing from God when you did get approved.... maaaaaybe you shouldn't be trying to buy a house? Ughhh.

I think it's just a humble brag. Goes over better than "look at the huge house I can afford to shelter my monster dong.  Suck it bitchez!!!"

Too bad they'll never be as humble as us.  amirite?

[Kris]

"Finally paid off our vacuum cleaner, it means one less bill every fortnight. Yay!"
Egads! Putting a vacuum cleaner on credit :(

I honestly cannot fathom putting anything on credit (credit card or other) that you couldn't pay off right away, other than a car or a house.  How do you buy something that you don't have money for?

(I know, I know… but I literally can't understand how people do this, despite evidence that pretty much everyone does it.)

[zephyr911]

I honestly cannot fathom putting anything on credit (credit card or other) that you couldn't pay off right away, other than a car or a house.  How do you buy something that you don't have money for?

(I know, I know… but I literally can't understand how people do this, despite evidence that pretty much everyone does it.)

It's not hard to justify using no-interest or low-interest credit for productive tools, if paying cash would cut into investment capital. I'm not the most disciplined person I know, and most of my progress involves just constantly pushing money to where I can't touch it (fuck it up) as opposed to saving what's left at the end of the month. As a result, I've been cash-poor many times while steadily adding net worth. As long as I maintain good credit, it costs little or nothing to use it.
In the case I mentioned, I had been working to improve my habits for a couple of years, and my net worth was nearing six figures, but I was struggling to get an underperforming rental back on track while still contributing to TSP and IRAs. My brand-new house was shared with a paying tenant, and I was tired of breaking cheap vacuums. The Dyson has now served 4 years, moved enough dog hair to clothe an army, and still works like new. I call it a win.

[frugalnacho]

I honestly cannot fathom putting anything on credit (credit card or other) that you couldn't pay off right away, other than a car or a house.  How do you buy something that you don't have money for?

(I know, I know… but I literally can't understand how people do this, despite evidence that pretty much everyone does it.)

It's not hard to justify using no-interest or low-interest credit for productive tools, if paying cash would cut into investment capital. I'm not the most disciplined person I know, and most of my progress involves just constantly pushing money to where I can't touch it (fuck it up) as opposed to saving what's left at the end of the month. As a result, I've been cash-poor many times while steadily adding net worth. As long as I maintain good credit, it costs little or nothing to use it.
In the case I mentioned, I had been working to improve my habits for a couple of years, and my net worth was nearing six figures, but I was struggling to get an underperforming rental back on track while still contributing to TSP and IRAs. My brand-new house was shared with a paying tenant, and I was tired of breaking cheap vacuums. The Dyson has now served 4 years, moved enough dog hair to clothe an army, and still works like new. I call it a win.

I think that was her point.  You are utilizing the cc (especially one at 0%) as a tool to divert your funds into investments faster, which is smart.  You had money for a vacuum and chose to game the system by using a cc to increase your expected net worth.  If you put the vacuum on a cc because you don't have vacuum money, AND you don't investment money that can be diverted to cover this vacuum, then you don't have money for a vacuum and shouldn't have purchased a vacuum on credit.

I am the same way.  I do not understand the disconnect between cc and real money.  I use the cc as a tool so I don't have to carry around and use my cash, not to make purchases I can't afford.  It makes no difference to me whether I pay cash or cc for something, I still account for it and realize it's a real purchase that takes real money from my accounts. 

[zephyr911]

I think that was her point.  You are utilizing the cc (especially one at 0%) as a tool to divert your funds into investments faster, which is smart.  You had money for a vacuum and chose to game the system by using a cc to increase your expected net worth.  If you put the vacuum on a cc because you don't have vacuum money, AND you don't investment money that can be diverted to cover this vacuum, then you don't have money for a vacuum and shouldn't have purchased a vacuum on credit.

I am the same way.  I do not understand the disconnect between cc and real money.  I use the cc as a tool so I don't have to carry around and use my cash, not to make purchases I can't afford.  It makes no difference to me whether I pay cash or cc for something, I still account for it and realize it's a real purchase that takes real money from my accounts.

Ah, gotcha.
I've actually been in that other category, though... unfortunately, I don't think there's any explaining, because I was living in a fairly mindless state while doing it. It never went beyond "I really want XYZ, I'm not very happy, and I think maybe it'll help".

[Kris]

I honestly cannot fathom putting anything on credit (credit card or other) that you couldn't pay off right away, other than a car or a house.  How do you buy something that you don't have money for?

(I know, I know… but I literally can't understand how people do this, despite evidence that pretty much everyone does it.)

It's not hard to justify using no-interest or low-interest credit for productive tools, if paying cash would cut into investment capital. I'm not the most disciplined person I know, and most of my progress involves just constantly pushing money to where I can't touch it (fuck it up) as opposed to saving what's left at the end of the month. As a result, I've been cash-poor many times while steadily adding net worth. As long as I maintain good credit, it costs little or nothing to use it.
In the case I mentioned, I had been working to improve my habits for a couple of years, and my net worth was nearing six figures, but I was struggling to get an underperforming rental back on track while still contributing to TSP and IRAs. My brand-new house was shared with a paying tenant, and I was tired of breaking cheap vacuums. The Dyson has now served 4 years, moved enough dog hair to clothe an army, and still works like new. I call it a win.

I think that was her point.  You are utilizing the cc (especially one at 0%) as a tool to divert your funds into investments faster, which is smart.  You had money for a vacuum and chose to game the system by using a cc to increase your expected net worth.  If you put the vacuum on a cc because you don't have vacuum money, AND you don't investment money that can be diverted to cover this vacuum, then you don't have money for a vacuum and shouldn't have purchased a vacuum on credit.

I am the same way.  I do not understand the disconnect between cc and real money.  I use the cc as a tool so I don't have to carry around and use my cash, not to make purchases I can't afford.  It makes no difference to me whether I pay cash or cc for something, I still account for it and realize it's a real purchase that takes real money from my accounts.

Yes, exactly.  Thank you.

[fartface]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

[Hedge_87]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

way to go parents

[WerKater]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

Awesome!

[zolotiyeruki]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

I think that deserves to go in the "Mustachianism around the web" subforum :)

[Mississippi Mudstache]

It's home buying season. Several FB friends have posted statuses about how "blessed" they are that they were approved for a mortgage and how God has "blessed" them with a great house. Then they post pictures -- 5 bedroom, suburban, cookie-cutter McMansions.

I've always thought, if you were so worried about getting approved for a mortgage that you considered it a blessing from God when you did get approved.... maaaaaybe you shouldn't be trying to buy a house? Ughhh.

I think it's just a humble brag. Goes over better than "look at the huge house I can afford to shelter my monster dong.  Suck it bitchez!!!"

Too bad they'll never be as humble as us.  amirite?

I take great pride in my humility.

[mm1970]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

this made me smile!

[MgoSam]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

this made me smile!

This made me smile as well. I'd also wish she added, "Me and your father didn't raise you to be a complainer either, so get off FB and work your butt off to earn money for a car."

[rockstache]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

Love it.

My brother in law recently asked his parents to cosign for a $10K personal loan. They told him that if the bank thought he was such a risk that he needed a cosigner, they weren't willing to jump on that risk either.

[Sibley]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

Love it.

My brother in law recently asked his parents to cosign for a $10K personal loan. They told him that if the bank thought he was such a risk that he needed a cosigner, they weren't willing to jump on that risk either.

I love it when parents parent!

[Threshkin]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

I could have been that girl.  Goofed off in HS, Dropped out of (Community) College, refused the military.  But rather than ask for handouts I knuckled down, worked crap jobs, paid my own way through tech school and built a career.  Years later, my father told me that he had "Given up on me." then but that he was very proud of what I had accomplished with my life.

[Apples]

Girl on FB: Why is it so impossible to find a co-signer?

Friend: For what?

Girl: A car. Nobody in my family can sign.  I'm worried about not having a car :(

Girl's MOM: I'm not sure how Dad explained it to you. It's not that we can't...but it was made perfectly clear when you chose to goof off in high school, then drop out of college and not join the military, that your choices would be limited. It's called growing up, kid. We love you, but you paved your own path, and now need to do this on your own. It's called tough love.

way to go parents

+1,000,000 for this.  Especially that it was stern but not angry...and in a public place in front of the friends this girl is trying to tell a different story to.  I am hoping my aunt does this to my cousin in the next year or so.