Overheard on Facebook

[Taran Wanderer]

Has our country always been dysfunctional like this or is this something recent?

I maintain that it's always been this way, it just wasn't broadcasted publicly to the extent it is today. Since the advent of social media it's all out in the open.

I think social media is a major factor in personal finances, too.  There is a great leveling in interpersonal interaction and visibility brought about by social media, so people expect there should be a leveling in lifestyle, too. The problem is that the lower and middle income can't afford it. Couple with the increased velocity of life - more action, less time, everybody's so busy - it's a recipe for spending, even if you shouldn't.

[johnny847]

Well with respect to saving for retirement, the use of 401k's is a more recent development. Pensions used to be the retirement vehicle of choice. People didn't have to finance their own retirement (at least, not a large chunk of it).

Most people never had a pension.   Only 38% of workers in 1980 were part of a pension PLAN.  (Being part of a plan doesn't mean they ended up getting a pension, either.  They might leave that job before they accumulated enough years to get a pension.)  Now the percentage is around 20%.

Most people financed their own retirement.  They bought savings bonds (still waiting for a few of my parent's bonds to mature before I cash them in).   They bought stocks and bonds.  They bought businesses.  Or they just saved cash.

Or they depended on their children to provide for them.

Where'd you get that data from?

If this source is to be believed, in 1975 55.2% of workers had pensions.

http://www.accounting-degree.org/retirement/

EDIT: Here's a better source

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) about 22 percent of full-time private industry workers recently got a defined pension benefit.

That compares to 42 percent in 1990.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/10/17/good-question-how-many-of-us-still-get-a-pension/

[nobodyspecial]

Most people never had a pension.   Only 38% of workers in 1980 were part of a pension PLAN.  (Being part of a plan doesn't mean they ended up getting a pension, either.  They might leave that job before they accumulated enough years to get a pension.)  Now the percentage is around 20%.

Or they depended on their children to provide for them.

Or their husbands. In 1980 most women would be working in jobs without a pension, but most men would have one.
So the 38% really means 80-90% of households  had a man in a full time job with a good pension and a women in a part time / low pay job without one.

Not saying it was better, just you have to be careful when comparing historical data with a single statistic

[kayvent]

Has our country always been dysfunctional like this or is this something recent?

I maintain that it's always been this way, it just wasn't broadcasted publicly to the extent it is today. Since the advent of social media it's all out in the open.

Well with respect to saving for retirement, the use of 401k's is a more recent development. Pensions used to be the retirement vehicle of choice. People didn't have to finance their own retirement (at least, not a large chunk of it).

And in their defence:

• Until a few generations ago, inflation was incremental, not compounded. So just keeping cash fish gold or other assets around was a feasible plan (We humans in general find it hard to grasp large numbers and exponential growth)
• Until a few generations ago, one probably worked on a farm or in agriculture. Even if you 'retired', your son was there still working on your farm and provided for you
• Until a generation ago, it wasn't unexpected that mom & dad would move in with their children when they got old. Now either you send them to a home or assisted living or they live in a senior-friendly building.
• You died younger and saving for retirement was a useless pursuit because you worked in subsistence farming or a factory. It is a whole different world: saving for zero years of retirement compared to saving for thirty plus years.

[ender]

• Until a generation ago, it wasn't unexpected that mom & dad would move in with their children when they got old. Now either you send them to a home or assisted living or they live in a senior-friendly building.
• You died younger and saving for retirement was a useless pursuit because you worked in subsistence farming or a factory. It is a whole different world: saving for zero years of retirement compared to saving for thirty plus years.

I think these really are two of the key factors in the problem with why saving was much less important.

[dragoncar]

Has our country always been dysfunctional like this or is this something recent?

I maintain that it's always been this way, it just wasn't broadcasted publicly to the extent it is today. Since the advent of social media it's all out in the open.

Well with respect to saving for retirement, the use of 401k's is a more recent development. Pensions used to be the retirement vehicle of choice. People didn't have to finance their own retirement (at least, not a large chunk of it).

And in their defence:

• Until a few generations ago, inflation was incremental, not compounded. So just keeping cash fish gold or other assets around was a feasible plan (We humans in general find it hard to grasp large numbers and exponential growth)
• Until a few generations ago, one probably worked on a farm or in agriculture. Even if you 'retired', your son was there still working on your farm and provided for you
• Until a generation ago, it wasn't unexpected that mom & dad would move in with their children when they got old. Now either you send them to a home or assisted living or they live in a senior-friendly building.
• You died younger and saving for retirement was a useless pursuit because you worked in subsistence farming or a factory. It is a whole different world: saving for zero years of retirement compared to saving for thirty plus years.

What does it mean to have "incremental" inflation vs. compounded and why did it change?[/list]

[nobodyspecial]

What does it mean to have "incremental" inflation vs. compounded and why did it change?[/list]

I think he means it was almost negligible.

It changed because with industrialization people got money to buy things and there were things to buy.
For centuries the only thing you could buy was land and the people with money already had land and their money was in the form of land.
There wasn't a lot of cash around in the middle ages.
 

[Pooperman]

What does it mean to have "incremental" inflation vs. compounded and why did it change?[/list]

I think he means it was almost negligible.

It changed because with industrialization people got money to buy things and there were things to buy.
For centuries the only thing you could buy was land and the people with money already had land and their money was in the form of land.
There wasn't a lot of cash around in the middle ages.

Nearly right. The CPI was pretty constant before centralized monetary policy that started with the Federal Reserve in 1913. It was determined that slight inflation was preferable to inflation brought on by war followed by deflation afterwards as inflation benefits borrowers (historically, this meant helping rural farmers, and it was a big part of the late 1800s Democrat platform). This slight inflationary policy meant that the gold standard was doomed, as happened in 1974.

So yes, it was only a few generations ago (about 100 years) where inflation was minimal overall.

[Nederstash]

I apologize for the foam in advance. Pensions are still a big thing here in little old Holland but I have to say, it annoys me to no end. Sure, we get a giant match (employer puts in 4x my input, which held from my gross income, so it grows tax-free). On the other hand: it's obligatory. I can't opt-out. I also can't put any extra money in. And all the time, I get news updates that the pension fund's returns are low because of market circumstances and the pay-out is constantly lowered. I don't even want to think about what the fund's managers make... I don't know, I just prefer to manage it myself, but the system's based on solidarity. (Or as I call it: a ponzi-scheme...)

[kayvent]

I apologize for the foam in advance. Pensions are still a big thing here in little old Holland but I have to say, it annoys me to no end. Sure, we get a giant match (employer puts in 4x my input, which held from my gross income, so it grows tax-free). On the other hand: it's obligatory. I can't opt-out. I also can't put any extra money in. And all the time, I get news updates that the pension fund's returns are low because of market circumstances and the pay-out is constantly lowered. I don't even want to think about what the fund's managers make... I don't know, I just prefer to manage it myself, but the system's based on solidarity. (Or as I call it: a ponzi-scheme...)

In Canada we can choose when we start drawing out the government-managed pension (CPP). (It is wonderfully managed.) The optimal age to start taking it, unless you know you will die young and have no spouse or minor children, is 70. I occasionally look at my paystub and see the CPP deduction.

I think about how here is money I'm putting in and I'll not see it until I triple my current age. Assuming it will continue to be managed correctly. Assuming some politician doesn't decide in twenty-years to raise the benefit and by the time it reaches me it gets cuts (like the USA may face).

I think about how that ~100$ is just vanishing off into the aether. I think about how the 500+$ from my paycheque that I put into retirement accounts (aside from general savings) and I wonder if I'll event notice when (if) I start collecting CPP. I think about the 25$ I pay for term life/injury insurance or the policy my work pays for all of its employees and I wonder if even if I died early whether the CPP benefit my child would get is even comparable (CPP also covers survivors' benefit for some unknown reason).

I contemplate all these things. But most of all, I wonder why I rant openly to strangers on the internet before I stop.

What does it mean to have "incremental" inflation vs. compounded and why did it change?[/list]

I think he means it was almost negligible.

It changed because with industrialization people got money to buy things and there were things to buy.
For centuries the only thing you could buy was land and the people with money already had land and their money was in the form of land.
There wasn't a lot of cash around in the middle ages.

Nearly right. The CPI was pretty constant before centralized monetary policy that started with the Federal Reserve in 1913. It was determined that slight inflation was preferable to inflation brought on by war followed by deflation afterwards as inflation benefits borrowers (historically, this meant helping rural farmers, and it was a big part of the late 1800s Democrat platform). This slight inflationary policy meant that the gold standard was doomed, as happened in 1974.

So yes, it was only a few generations ago (about 100 years) where inflation was minimal overall.

Entirely correct and you phrased it better than I could have :)

[johnny847]

I apologize for the foam in advance. Pensions are still a big thing here in little old Holland but I have to say, it annoys me to no end. Sure, we get a giant match (employer puts in 4x my input, which held from my gross income, so it grows tax-free). On the other hand: it's obligatory. I can't opt-out. I also can't put any extra money in. And all the time, I get news updates that the pension fund's returns are low because of market circumstances and the pay-out is constantly lowered. I don't even want to think about what the fund's managers make... I don't know, I just prefer to manage it myself, but the system's based on solidarity. (Or as I call it: a ponzi-scheme...)

I think the US move away from pensions and towards 401k's isn't a clear cut good or bad thing. I mean pensions were great for people who had bad money management skills (or maybe not "bad" but just didn't care about saving for retirement). But at the same time pensions weren't portable. If the rules were you needed to work say 10 years to get full pension benefits, but you quit/were fired/otherwise terminated employment at 9 years, you were pretty boned. At least with a 401k all of your contributions + vested employer match (which usually vests in a year from what I've seen) can always be rolled over to an IRA when you leave. This is a great advantage now that (at least in the industry that I plan to work in when I graduate) job turnover is much greater than it used to be.

[MrRealEstate]

My friend shared a meme that said "I love buying things online because when they arrive it's like a present to me, from me" with a comment saying "17 gifts this week!"

And all these people were commenting about how many packages they had delivered this week.

I'm guilty of this same thing, except my cart sits for a month or two until I hit order. Also, my items are a little more of the staple variety. This week was body wash, coffee, and a tv remote for a craigslist find. They still feel luxurious though since I could live without the latter two, and could buy a much cheaper bar of soap.

[Kitsune]

My friend shared a meme that said "I love buying things online because when they arrive it's like a present to me, from me" with a comment saying "17 gifts this week!"

And all these people were commenting about how many packages they had delivered this week.

I'm guilty of this same thing, except my cart sits for a month or two until I hit order. Also, my items are a little more of the staple variety. This week was body wash, coffee, and a tv remote for a craigslist find. They still feel luxurious though since I could live without the latter two, and could buy a much cheaper bar of soap.

This. On average, I get 5-6 packages per week. 3$ (including shipping) books, material for home renovations/improvement/garden stuff, pharmacy stuff, etc (aka: stuff we need/use and that isn't particularly expensive)... all of which is about 1/2 the price online compared to the local store, and to get a price that comes CLOSE to online I'd have to drive to the city, which is 60km away. Yay country living.

And for the record: I like supporting country stores, and will totally spend a dollar or two more on an item to support a small local business. I will NOT spend 2x the price to support a chain store that jacked up the price because they're in the country. At that point, I'll support the cheap chain that ships to my door for free.

[economista]

This wasn't posted by a Facebook friend, but it was an add that popped up in my newsfeed from a local car dealership.  They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle, and will be underwater on it for the whole life of the loan.  There were over 100 "likes" on the add!  On the bright side, there were 2 comments, both which were very mustachian in nature about how ridiculous it was.

[Papa Mustache]

Has our country always been dysfunctional like this or is this something recent?

I maintain that it's always been this way, it just wasn't broadcasted publicly to the extent it is today. Since the advent of social media it's all out in the open.

maybe in the long run we'll collectively be smarter for it...

[Papa Mustache]

And for the record: I like supporting country stores, and will totally spend a dollar or two more on an item to support a small local business. I will NOT spend 2x the price to support a chain store that jacked up the price because they're in the country. At that point, I'll support the cheap chain that ships to my door for free.

This - absolutely!

[Goldielocks]

My friend shared a meme that said "I love buying things online because when they arrive it's like a present to me, from me" with a comment saying "17 gifts this week!"

And all these people were commenting about how many packages they had delivered this week.

I'm guilty of this same thing, except my cart sits for a month or two until I hit order. Also, my items are a little more of the staple variety. This week was body wash, coffee, and a tv remote for a craigslist find. They still feel luxurious though since I could live without the latter two, and could buy a much cheaper bar of soap.

This. On average, I get 5-6 packages per week. 3$ (including shipping) books, material for home renovations/improvement/garden stuff, pharmacy stuff, etc (aka: stuff we need/use and that isn't particularly expensive)... all of which is about 1/2 the price online compared to the local store, and to get a price that comes CLOSE to online I'd have to drive to the city, which is 60km away. Yay country living.

And for the record: I like supporting country stores, and will totally spend a dollar or two more on an item to support a small local business. I will NOT spend 2x the price to support a chain store that jacked up the price because they're in the country. At that point, I'll support the cheap chain that ships to my door for free.

Not to mention, when you order from places like "online plumbing supply" and "Amazon", you are often supporting a rural store / home location, small business.... just somewhere else in the country.  Yay for online shopping and the neutralization of big box advantage!

[nobodyspecial]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

[kayvent]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

[nobodyspecial]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

Obviously. I am surprised how many they sell though.
I guess that most Americans and Canadians must be cattle ranchers, wild-cat oil drillers or lumberjacks.

[Werthless]

What does it mean to have "incremental" inflation vs. compounded and why did it change?[/list]

I think he means it was almost negligible.

It changed because with industrialization people got money to buy things and there were things to buy.
For centuries the only thing you could buy was land and the people with money already had land and their money was in the form of land.
There wasn't a lot of cash around in the middle ages.

Nearly right. The CPI was pretty constant before centralized monetary policy that started with the Federal Reserve in 1913. It was determined that slight inflation was preferable to inflation brought on by war followed by deflation afterwards as inflation benefits borrowers (historically, this meant helping rural farmers, and it was a big part of the late 1800s Democrat platform). This slight inflationary policy meant that the gold standard was doomed, as happened in 1974.

So yes, it was only a few generations ago (about 100 years) where inflation was minimal overall.

<Image snipped>

I agree with your broader point, but any graph showing a concept (eg. stock prices, CPI) that is compounding will have that convex shape with an increasing slope. That doesnt tell you whether the underlying growth rate is increasing or decreasing over time, because it is very difficult for our eye to discern changes in convexity. A severe 20% jump in CPI would be hidden if it occurred in the left quarter of the graph. As an exercise, you can create a graph showing how $1 in Excel compounds a constant 3% over 150 years, and you might be surprised at the shape.

To avoid deception, most economists showing changes in growth rates will do one of 2 things. One, use a logarithmic scale. Two, show the yearly change without compounding. As an example, see image from Wikipedia below

[Pooperman]

What does it mean to have "incremental" inflation vs. compounded and why did it change?[/list]

I think he means it was almost negligible.

It changed because with industrialization people got money to buy things and there were things to buy.
For centuries the only thing you could buy was land and the people with money already had land and their money was in the form of land.
There wasn't a lot of cash around in the middle ages.

Nearly right. The CPI was pretty constant before centralized monetary policy that started with the Federal Reserve in 1913. It was determined that slight inflation was preferable to inflation brought on by war followed by deflation afterwards as inflation benefits borrowers (historically, this meant helping rural farmers, and it was a big part of the late 1800s Democrat platform). This slight inflationary policy meant that the gold standard was doomed, as happened in 1974.

So yes, it was only a few generations ago (about 100 years) where inflation was minimal overall.

<Image snipped>

I agree with your broader point, but any graph showing a concept (eg. stock prices, CPI) that is compounding will have that convex shape with an increasing slope. That doesn't tell you whether the underlying growth rate is increasing or decreasing over time, because it is very difficult for our eye to discern changes in convexity. A severe 20% jump in CPI would be hidden if it occurred in the left quarter of the graph. As an exercise, you can create a graph showing how $1 in Excel compounds a constant 3% over 150 years, and you might be surprised at the shape.

To avoid deception, most economists showing changes in growth rates will do one of 2 things. One, use a logarithmic scale. Two, show the yearly change without compounding. As an example, see image from Wikipedia below

I was trying to find a log scale version of it, but no luck going back as far as I wanted to. Still, it's obviously a long-term 0% year-to-year inflation between the beginning of the chart through WW1, at which point purposeful monetary policy takes over. The point was that it wasn't a direct result of industrialization (though it's probably an indirect one).

[Nederstash]

So, you buy 1500 bucks worth of iTunes cards because the 'IRS' called and said she could pay her debts that way... then she finds out it's a scam and Best Buy won't give a refund. Cue angry costumer service facebook post!

[Nederstash]

Btw this is from a glorious site called Failbook.

[MgoSam]

I've never tried to return a gift card, didn't realize they aren't returnable...which makes sense. Man is this person really stupid, it's unfortunate but it's people like her that keep scammers in business. Worst case is that she can sell the gift cards online, might need to take a slight haircut.

Reminds me of Entourage where Turtle is trying to buy expensive clothes and is using Vince's apple store credit to do so.

[Nederstash]

I guess she sent the cards to the scammer?

[Digital Dogma]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

[MgoSam]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I thought you could buy them at Target, Best Buy, some grocery stores, and many more places? It's been ages since I've looked so maybe this has changed.

[merula]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I thought you could buy them at Target, Best Buy, some grocery stores, and many more places? It's been ages since I've looked so maybe this has changed.

Yeah, you can buy them everywhere. Including apple.com: http://www.apple.com/itunes/gifts/

Probably people are using this to launder money (and/or manufacture spend), but doesn't look like anyone's doing anything about it.

[BDWW]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I thought you could buy them at Target, Best Buy, some grocery stores, and many more places? It's been ages since I've looked so maybe this has changed.

Yeah, you can buy them everywhere. Including apple.com: http://www.apple.com/itunes/gifts/

Probably people are using this to launder money (and/or manufacture spend), but doesn't look like anyone's doing anything about it.

Timely, my uncle is a police chief, and we were just discussing this at picnic this weekend. They get calls constantly about scams like this, and he has to patiently explain to a surprising number of people: "No the IRS is not going to ask for Amazon gift cards/Itunes cards/whatever else".

[BTDretire]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I don't get it, how can you launder cash.
If your buying online, I guess your using stolen credit cards?
 But that wouldn't be laundering cash.
What don't I understand?

[Primm]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I don't get it, how can you launder cash.
If your buying online, I guess your using stolen credit cards?
 But that wouldn't be laundering cash.
What don't I understand?

Cash received as a result of crime is used to buy legitimate forms of "currency". Said currency is sold at a discount. Original criminal gets not-quite-as-much money as they originally stole, but it's at arms length from the crime (money into bank account from eBay sales for example).

So they get money, but a little bit less, but it's harder to connect them to the crime. And since they didn't earn it but stole it they count the "discount" is the cost of gaining the money.

[dragoncar]

So, you buy 1500 bucks worth of iTunes cards because the 'IRS' called and said she could pay her debts that way... then she finds out it's a scam and Best Buy won't give a refund. Cue angry costumer service facebook post!

Honestly, I agree Best Buy should train their employees to at least flag this to the customer.  If they can't give refunds, fine, but at least try to warn the customer that there have been recent scams involving large gift cards.  Western Union is almost entirely funded by scammers these days.

[Paul der Krake]

How has this person made it so far in life without falling off a cliff?

Itunes gift cards. The IRS. Seriously.

[GoConfidently]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

[ender]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

To be fair, that could be $50 total if it's on Craigslist or garage sales.

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I'm pretty sure I've seen them at Sams Club, too, so you might not have to go to an Apple store.

[Kenbo]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

Lol, because washing 50 things once is less work than washing 10 things 5 times.

[dragoncar]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

Lol, because washing 50 things once is less work than washing 10 things 5 times.

There's an optimal number of outfits to own, which is basically the amount that will fit in one full load of laundry, plus one to wear while you are doing laundry (possibly plus some if you can't always get to laundry on time).  If you own less than a full load, you are doing too many partial loads.  If you own two full loads you just own clothes you don't really need.

[Pooperman]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

Lol, because washing 50 things once is less work than washing 10 things 5 times.

If you own two full loads you just own clothes you don't really needneed a bigger washing machine.

Have you seen the monsters my apartment complex has? 2 or 3 loads in one go!

[Goldielocks]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

To be fair, that could be $50 total if it's on Craigslist or garage sales.

I am trying to imagine what laundry day looks like -- for someone who hates laundry, I guess I can understand it when it looks like you need a forklift to get through it.

[MrRealEstate]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

Obviously. I am surprised how many they sell though.
I guess that most Americans and Canadians must be cattle ranchers, wild-cat oil drillers or lumberjacks.

California by itself employs over 350k people for agricultural work. While not all of them need trucks, it does still represent a decent number of sales.

[MustachianAccountant]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

Obviously. I am surprised how many they sell though.
I guess that most Americans and Canadians must be cattle ranchers, wild-cat oil drillers or lumberjacks.

California by itself employs over 350k people for agricultural work. While not all of them need trucks, it does still represent a decent number of sales.

I don't understand why an agricultural worker needs a truck. I can see why the business that employs them might need a truck, but not the workers. Is this a requirement for agricultural workers - that they provide their own truck for the business to use?

[Kitsune]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

To be fair, that could be $50 total if it's on Craigslist or garage sales.

I am trying to imagine what laundry day looks like -- for someone who hates laundry, I guess I can understand it when it looks like you need a forklift to get through it.

No joke: what changed laundry for us is one of those 3-basket laundry hampers (whites, darks, delicates). We just run a load when a basket gets full which is usually around when one of us starts running low on clothes and doesn't require emptying everything out on the floor and sorting and making a Production of it. It's a mental thing, sure, but it helps keep things running smoothly.

Also, optimal # of weather appropriate clothing for my toddler is 7-8 leggings, 7-8 shirts, and 3-4 sweaters. 30??!

[nobodyspecial]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

Obviously. I am surprised how many they sell though.
I guess that most Americans and Canadians must be cattle ranchers, wild-cat oil drillers or lumberjacks.

California by itself employs over 350k people for agricultural work. While not all of them need trucks, it does still represent a decent number of sales.

I don't understand why an agricultural worker needs a truck. I can see why the business that employs them might need a truck, but not the workers. Is this a requirement for agricultural workers - that they provide their own truck for the business to use?

I guess that fording rivers and climbing snow covered mountain gravel roads (I watched the ads) is the only way to get to work for fruit pickers in California - but if so a Subaru would probably be more cost effective.

[LeRainDrop]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

[Magilla]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

If it was a gift why is this antimustachian?  I know I would appreciate such a gift as I love All-Clad products (indestructible and high quality).  I have some kitchen knives I bought in Japan with my name on them and I love them.  Use them all the time.  Now, I would never post a facebook pic or post about it (I never post on FB anyway) but if you love to cook I can see being excited by good kitchenware.

[dragoncar]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

If it was a gift why is this antimustachian?  I know I would appreciate such a gift as I love All-Clad products (indestructible and high quality).  I have some kitchen knives I bought in Japan with my name on them and I love them.  Use them all the time.  Now, I would never post a facebook pic or post about it (I never post on FB anyway) but if you love to cook I can see being excited by good kitchenware.

Monogram costs $9 ... doesn't seem crazy for a pan you will (should) have for life.  I've got some All-Clad and consider it in the semi-mustachian BIFL category.

[LeRainDrop]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

If it was a gift why is this antimustachian?  I know I would appreciate such a gift as I love All-Clad products (indestructible and high quality).  I have some kitchen knives I bought in Japan with my name on them and I love them.  Use them all the time.  Now, I would never post a facebook pic or post about it (I never post on FB anyway) but if you love to cook I can see being excited by good kitchenware.

Monogram costs $9 ... doesn't seem crazy for a pan you will (should) have for life.  I've got some All-Clad and consider it in the semi-mustachian BIFL category.

Fair enough -- point taken.  It just struck me as a little over-indulgent.  I guess my bigger issue is the people who put all sorts of expensive stuff on their wedding registry because it's considered an "acceptable" time to be peddling for unnecessary gifts.  Like, "This looks neat.  I'll just plop it on there and some poor sap will buy it for me."

[Goldielocks]

Huh,  maybe they listed All Clad on their registry, thinking that they could return it for cash, but someone actually made a gift out of it.

[dragoncar]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

If it was a gift why is this antimustachian?  I know I would appreciate such a gift as I love All-Clad products (indestructible and high quality).  I have some kitchen knives I bought in Japan with my name on them and I love them.  Use them all the time.  Now, I would never post a facebook pic or post about it (I never post on FB anyway) but if you love to cook I can see being excited by good kitchenware.

Monogram costs $9 ... doesn't seem crazy for a pan you will (should) have for life.  I've got some All-Clad and consider it in the semi-mustachian BIFL category.

Fair enough -- point taken.  It just struck me as a little over-indulgent.  I guess my bigger issue is the people who put all sorts of expensive stuff on their wedding registry because it's considered an "acceptable" time to be peddling for unnecessary gifts.  Like, "This looks neat.  I'll just plop it on there and some poor sap will buy it for me."

Totally, it's all because of that stupid scanning gun they give you (or so I hear).  I'm sure the impulse-buy effect is intentional there.