Overheard on Facebook

[marty998]

My dad was/is an anti vaxxer, but mom got us vaccinated anyways on schedule.  I'm very thankful for this.

My neighbor is an anti-vaxxer.  When her 20-yo son went to the doc right before going off to a UC, he went in without her (she was still driving him to the doc!)  He said: Give me all my vaccines please.

She was pissed, or so the story goes.

Good for him

Good boy. Teens and young adults spread meningococcal so easily (on top of all the other "eradicated" diseases mentioned above).

So important to be up to date.

[mm1970]

My dad was/is an anti vaxxer, but mom got us vaccinated anyways on schedule.  I'm very thankful for this.

My neighbor is an anti-vaxxer.  When her 20-yo son went to the doc right before going off to a UC, he went in without her (she was still driving him to the doc!)  He said: Give me all my vaccines please.

She was pissed, or so the story goes.

Good for him

AND he doesn't need boosters for a while yet.  Fresh immunizations with up-to-date vaccines before heading out of the house sounds like a great idea, especially given some exposures you'd get at college (UC?), per the news lately.

Yep, especially with what's going on right now, it was good timing.

[Sugaree]

On one of the community FB pages, someone reported that there's a kid, 8-11, standing outside with a sign that he's looking for odd jobs to make money to buy his mom a Mother's Day gift.  Cool, huh?  Except that here comes the busybody patrol clucking about how dangerous that is.  How he could get kidnapped because we're close to a major interstate.  Newsflash.  We've been close to a major interstate for decades and there has not been one single child abducted by a stranger from here in my entire life.  These are the same busy bodies that are going to complain about "kids these days" and how lazy they are.  Can't win for losing with these people. 

[Proud Foot]

On one of the community FB pages, someone reported that there's a kid, 8-11, standing outside with a sign that he's looking for odd jobs to make money to buy his mom a Mother's Day gift.  Cool, huh?  Except that here comes the busybody patrol clucking about how dangerous that is.  How he could get kidnapped because we're close to a major interstate.  Newsflash.  We've been close to a major interstate for decades and there has not been one single child abducted by a stranger from here in my entire life.  These are the same busy bodies that are going to complain about "kids these days" and how lazy they are.  Can't win for losing with these people.

The busybody patrol sounds like the kind of person who would call city code enforcement on a child for having a lemonade stand.

[Just Joe]

That kid is required to have a business license and needs to have the health inspector visit... /s

[Dave1442397]

That kid is required to have a business license and needs to have the health inspector visit... /s

And the parents should be arrested immediately for neglecting their child :)

[Kitsune]

From someone who I considered a friend years ago:

30% of posts: therapy for her autistic toddler would cost SO MUCH and they can't afford it (desipte the friends who have offered to chip in), disabled people have it so rough, life is unfair, woe is me... 
30% of posts: pictures from large stadium concerts, usually front-row seats
30% of posts: rants about how poor people can never get ahead.
Remaining 10% of posts: pictures of packaged meal kits (that go for 10$/portion...) because with those Disabled Spouse can cook dinner (grocery delivery would accomplish the same result, but who asked me)

... Now, to be fair: therapy IS expensive (and necessary), disabled people DO have a harder time and it sucks, and it IS hard to be poor. But those 800$ concert ticket prices could seriously be applied to other areas of life, thereby making them easier. It sucks not to have the things that are important to you, I totally get it... but y'know, I have a family income at least 3x theirs, and I never, EVER have the money for 800$ tickets - hell, more than 5$ and I'm like naaaaaah. (But if one of my kids needed therapy, I could pay for it upfront...)

It's just hard to watch. 

[FireHiker]

... Now, to be fair: therapy IS expensive (and necessary), disabled people DO have a harder time and it sucks, and it IS hard to be poor. But those 800$ concert ticket prices could seriously be applied to other areas of life, thereby making them easier. It sucks not to have the things that are important to you, I totally get it... but y'know, I have a family income at least 3x theirs, and I never, EVER have the money for 800$ tickets - hell, more than 5$ and I'm like naaaaaah. (But if one of my kids needed therapy, I could pay for it upfront...)

It's just hard to watch.

Oh yes, I know someone like this (at work, not on facebook). They have some real, serious issues at no fault of their own and it sucks, even if money was no issue. BUT...the way they spend money (including the concert front row seats...which were more like $1500 each last time they went) only makes things worse for them and yes, it is hard to watch. Life may give you a cactus, but you don't need to sit on it...

[Kitsune]

... Now, to be fair: therapy IS expensive (and necessary), disabled people DO have a harder time and it sucks, and it IS hard to be poor. But those 800$ concert ticket prices could seriously be applied to other areas of life, thereby making them easier. It sucks not to have the things that are important to you, I totally get it... but y'know, I have a family income at least 3x theirs, and I never, EVER have the money for 800$ tickets - hell, more than 5$ and I'm like naaaaaah. (But if one of my kids needed therapy, I could pay for it upfront...)

It's just hard to watch.

Oh yes, I know someone like this (at work, not on facebook). They have some real, serious issues at no fault of their own and it sucks, even if money was no issue. BUT...the way they spend money (including the concert front row seats...which were more like $1500 each last time they went) only makes things worse for them and yes, it is hard to watch. Life may give you a cactus, but you don't need to sit on it...

Your last line basically sums it up. You may be playing the life game on 'difficult' mode, but maybe don't give away your gear before starting?

[OtherJen]

... Now, to be fair: therapy IS expensive (and necessary), disabled people DO have a harder time and it sucks, and it IS hard to be poor. But those 800$ concert ticket prices could seriously be applied to other areas of life, thereby making them easier. It sucks not to have the things that are important to you, I totally get it... but y'know, I have a family income at least 3x theirs, and I never, EVER have the money for 800$ tickets - hell, more than 5$ and I'm like naaaaaah. (But if one of my kids needed therapy, I could pay for it upfront...)

It's just hard to watch.

Oh yes, I know someone like this (at work, not on facebook). They have some real, serious issues at no fault of their own and it sucks, even if money was no issue. BUT...the way they spend money (including the concert front row seats...which were more like $1500 each last time they went) only makes things worse for them and yes, it is hard to watch. Life may give you a cactus, but you don't need to sit on it...

Your last line basically sums it up. You may be playing the life game on 'difficult' mode, but maybe don't give away your gear before starting?

I have a few people like this among my friends and family. I can't really do much other than nod empathetically and say "that sucks," because so many of the financial and other difficulties are self-inflicted.

[CindyBS]

From someone who I considered a friend years ago:

30% of posts: therapy for her autistic toddler would cost SO MUCH and they can't afford it (desipte the friends who have offered to chip in), disabled people have it so rough, life is unfair, woe is me... 
30% of posts: pictures from large stadium concerts, usually front-row seats
30% of posts: rants about how poor people can never get ahead.
Remaining 10% of posts: pictures of packaged meal kits (that go for 10$/portion...) because with those Disabled Spouse can cook dinner (grocery delivery would accomplish the same result, but who asked me)

... Now, to be fair: therapy IS expensive (and necessary), disabled people DO have a harder time and it sucks, and it IS hard to be poor. But those 800$ concert ticket prices could seriously be applied to other areas of life, thereby making them easier. It sucks not to have the things that are important to you, I totally get it... but y'know, I have a family income at least 3x theirs, and I never, EVER have the money for 800$ tickets - hell, more than 5$ and I'm like naaaaaah. (But if one of my kids needed therapy, I could pay for it upfront...)

It's just hard to watch.

I couldn't agree with you more.  And I have a kid with Autism and Cancer (he's in remission and much better) as well as a few other disabilities.  My kids' disabilities have cost us several hundred thousand dollars in lost wages, medical deductibles, therapy bills, etc. 

I cringe at some of the Go Fund Me's and other fundraisers for people with disabled kids.  I fully realize most people are not in the place my family is, but there is a lot of people who don't want to adjust their lives in anyway and lower their spending at all when a tragedy hits.   I've had a friend tell me in confidence how "people" have noticed that we did not use our son's illness to milk everyone for money the way some people do.  We have a particularly egregious neighbor who does this.

[mm1970]

... Now, to be fair: therapy IS expensive (and necessary), disabled people DO have a harder time and it sucks, and it IS hard to be poor. But those 800$ concert ticket prices could seriously be applied to other areas of life, thereby making them easier. It sucks not to have the things that are important to you, I totally get it... but y'know, I have a family income at least 3x theirs, and I never, EVER have the money for 800$ tickets - hell, more than 5$ and I'm like naaaaaah. (But if one of my kids needed therapy, I could pay for it upfront...)

It's just hard to watch.

Oh yes, I know someone like this (at work, not on facebook). They have some real, serious issues at no fault of their own and it sucks, even if money was no issue. BUT...the way they spend money (including the concert front row seats...which were more like $1500 each last time they went) only makes things worse for them and yes, it is hard to watch. Life may give you a cactus, but you don't need to sit on it...

Your last line basically sums it up. You may be playing the life game on 'difficult' mode, but maybe don't give away your gear before starting?

So so hard to watch.  I have a friend who used to be like this, but they've made a lot of changes.  They still like concerts, but have been spending less and going to fewer. 

Sometimes we have conversations about other things though.  Like summer camps.  My kids are in summer camp all summer, because, well, I work full time.  I have to do that.  She doesn't work in the summer, but also doesn't want the kids home all summer fighting AND cannot afford full time summer camp.  I def feel her there.  On the other hand, I intentionally choose approx half of the summer to be full day, cheap camps.  So, $200 a week per kid.  Not educational camps by any means, or fancy surf camps or art camps.  One way to get around this is to figure out how much you can afford per kid, and see where you can get the most bang for your buck.  If you can spend $400 per kid for the summer, then maybe do one full day camp for $200 and a couple of weeks of half day camp.   Or choose the 6 week half day camps that are super cheap and subsidized by the city.  But if you have $400 per kid for the summer, then a single camp at $350 is going to eat into that.

I tell my husband sometimes that I would LOVE to get a break from work.  You know, a few months in between jobs would be awesome!  As long as it's not when school is out, ha!

[Dave1442397]

I tell my husband sometimes that I would LOVE to get a break from work.  You know, a few months in between jobs would be awesome!  As long as it's not when school is out, ha!

[remizidae]

Not financially related, but I've got one FB 'friend' who is all bothered about the new HR bill requiring that students attending public school have their MMR vaccines. Majority of her argument is "I've never been vaccinated and I've been fine! and are you ADULTS keeping up with your boosters?! Because that makes you essentially unvaccinated too!"

1. Your survivorship bias is very strong.
2. I'm sure you do other risk-mitigating procedures in your daily life (i.e. wear a seatbelt), so why is this different? (everything in vaccines has been proven safe)
3. I'm sure that adults who need their boosters will get them

It takes everything within my willpower not to want to smack her into next week.

"But I'm a medical professional too, so I'm all educated!"

Fine, you may see the statistics and have a different opinion, but I don't care about your opinion when there is a sick child (when this was preventable!) involved.

OT but: I’m not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults don’t have primary care doctors.

[CindyBS]

Not financially related, but I've got one FB 'friend' who is all bothered about the new HR bill requiring that students attending public school have their MMR vaccines. Majority of her argument is "I've never been vaccinated and I've been fine! and are you ADULTS keeping up with your boosters?! Because that makes you essentially unvaccinated too!"

1. Your survivorship bias is very strong.
2. I'm sure you do other risk-mitigating procedures in your daily life (i.e. wear a seatbelt), so why is this different? (everything in vaccines has been proven safe)
3. I'm sure that adults who need their boosters will get them

It takes everything within my willpower not to want to smack her into next week.

"But I'm a medical professional too, so I'm all educated!"

Fine, you may see the statistics and have a different opinion, but I don't care about your opinion when there is a sick child (when this was preventable!) involved.

OT but: I’m not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults don’t have primary care doctors.

Doctors can run a test often called "running titers" - basically they see if you have the antibodies.   I got a MMR booster a few years ago b/c at the time I was working with an unvaccinated child and some of these measles outbreaks were starting.  My doctor didn't even bother to run titers based on my age (early 40's at the time) - she said it was pretty likely the immunity was all gone and she just went ahead and vaccinated me.    I hadn't had any boosters other the ones in the normal course of getting vaccinated as a kid. 

[merula]

OT but: I’m not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults don’t have primary care doctors.

Cindy's right about titers, but also, healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.

And I would be just fine if this law was expanded to adults. I had to convince my entire family that they weren't going to see my newborn unless they got their flu, MMR and Tdap boosters, which wasn't fun. I'm still pretty sure my brother flat-out lied to me.

[SwordGuy]

OT but: I’m not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults don’t have primary care doctors.

Cindy's right about titers, but also, healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.

And I would be just fine if this law was expanded to adults. I had to convince my entire family that they weren't going to see my newborn unless they got their flu, MMR and Tdap boosters, which wasn't fun. I'm still pretty sure my brother flat-out lied to me.

Ask for proof.  It *is* that important.

[Kitsune]

For the most part, in terms of boosters:
- healthy adults who have had the MMR vaccine should, probably, have retained some immunity, but no proof without titers... which cost more to run than administering the booster, so most doctors do that on request. CLSC if you're in Quebec; it'll be free.
- tdap every 10 years AND before becoming pregnant, because pertussis kills babies and also tetanus kills adults.
- Flu vaccine every year, seriously, y'all, no one needs this.
- If you're over 50, shingles vaccines can save you a LOT of pain. Also, if you're over 65, a pneumoccocal vaccine is recommended.
- And, if I'm covering bases: it's recommended for younger adults/teenagers/ideally children who are not yet sexually active and haven't caught HPV yet, but it is VERY prevalent. If you have any intent of having new sexual partners, get the HPV vaccine regardless of your age (but if you're over 26 you'll need to pay for it out of pocket). Lack of STDs and lower cancer risk is a great thing, guys.

Note: I'm not a doctor but I manage a medical clinic, these are fairly standard recommendations, supported by the Canadian government: (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/vaccination-adults.html for reference)

[Goldielocks]

OT but: I’m not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults don’t have primary care doctors.

Cindy's right about titers, but also, healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.

And I would be just fine if this law was expanded to adults. I had to convince my entire family that they weren't going to see my newborn unless they got their flu, MMR and Tdap boosters, which wasn't fun. I'm still pretty sure my brother flat-out lied to me.

Ask for proof.  It *is* that important.

What?  Adults need MMR boosters? 

GAH.  I have had so many MMR shots in my lifetime.. maybe 4?  (but I did not take the records from my parent's place, thinking I was done with that by age 18).. I have even had both red measles and german measles.

The extra booster shots were for 1) an outbreak in my area when I was a kid and everyone needed to get a booster to go back to school, as they discovered that the shots / series given out when I was young were not as effective as previously thought (e.g. see "had measles as a child" above.).. and 2)  they automatically gave a booster to all 12 year old girls in my health area because measles on pregnant moms is very dangerous.

Instead of demanding that all adults get a MMR booster, pause for a moment, and ask your regional public health for more information.  For my area, it is extremely unlikely for an adult over 50 year old to not be vaccinated and to have never contacted measles (as it is highly contagious and vaccinations when they were children were less common, so nearly everyone without the vaccine got measles).  How likely is it that adults in your area need vaccines?

[Kitsune]

OT but: I’m not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults don’t have primary care doctors.

Cindy's right about titers, but also, healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.

And I would be just fine if this law was expanded to adults. I had to convince my entire family that they weren't going to see my newborn unless they got their flu, MMR and Tdap boosters, which wasn't fun. I'm still pretty sure my brother flat-out lied to me.

Ask for proof.  It *is* that important.

What?  Adults need MMR boosters? 

GAH.  I have had so many MMR shots in my lifetime.. maybe 4?  (but I did not take the records from my parent's place, thinking I was done with that by age 18).. I have even had both red measles and german measles.

The extra booster shots were for 1) an outbreak in my area when I was a kid and everyone needed to get a booster to go back to school, as they discovered that the shots / series given out when I was young were not as effective as previously thought (e.g. see "had measles as a child" above.).. and 2)  they automatically gave a booster to all 12 year old girls in my health area because measles on pregnant moms is very dangerous.

Instead of demanding that all adults get a MMR booster, pause for a moment, and ask your regional public health for more information.  For my area, it is extremely unlikely for an adult over 50 year old to not be vaccinated and to have never contacted measles (as it is highly contagious and vaccinations when they were children were less common, so nearly everyone without the vaccine got measles).  How likely is it that adults in your area need vaccines?

The point, for measles, is not that they haven't been vaccinated - it's that the population that has recieved the recommended 2 shots have a 3% chance of having no immune response (5% if you've just had one dose, statistically).

97% herd immunity is usually fine, until people stop vaccinating.

And you don't now if you're part of that 3% unless you get lab tests that show that your blood produces an immune response (in which case: yay 97% effectiveness!) or just get a booster, which is, in most cases, cheaper and easier.

[Sibley]

I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

[CindyBS]

OT but: I’m not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults don’t have primary care doctors.

healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.

Please, please do not only take into consideration if you are a healthy adult - but who you may infect who is not a healthy adult.  That means every immunocompromised person including anyone going through cancer or chemo, every baby under age 1, every transplant patient, etc.  Measles is so contagious that you can walk through a room where there is an infected person and have no "contact" with them and still get it.  Then you are usually infectious for a few days before you see any symptoms.  Basically any public place is potentially a place to get and spread measles without having any formal contact with anyone. 

My son is immunocompromised and while measles would be difficult for any healthy adult - it has a 20-70% death rate in kids like him.  It is so, so scary.  He is not able to get a MMR vaccine.

[Imma]

I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

You got the HPV vaccine as a sexually active adult? I was also too old to get it when it was introduced and was refused the shot later because I was already sexually active. I guess I need to talk to my doctor again sometime! The HPV shot take up rate is something like 40% where I live. The argument I've heard most is that it's an STD and the parents are sure their daughter is a "decent girl" who won't sleep around. Well, for one, you have no idea what your young daughter's sexual behaviour will be like when they grow up, and you can also contract HPV through involuntary sexual contact and even from the only sexual partner you'll ever have. I really don't understand why we only vaccinate girls and not boys. 

I am also immunocompromised and can't get some shots. The ones I can get, I absolutely make sure I get, including boosters. My immune system needs all the help it can get.

[Kitsune]

I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

You got the HPV vaccine as a sexually active adult? I was also too old to get it when it was introduced and was refused the shot later because I was already sexually active. I guess I need to talk to my doctor again sometime! The HPV shot take up rate is something like 40% where I live. The argument I've heard most is that it's an STD and the parents are sure their daughter is a "decent girl" who won't sleep around. Well, for one, you have no idea what your young daughter's sexual behaviour will be like when they grow up, and you can also contract HPV through involuntary sexual contact and even from the only sexual partner you'll ever have. I really don't understand why we only vaccinate girls and not boys. 

I am also immunocompromised and can't get some shots. The ones I can get, I absolutely make sure I get, including boosters. My immune system needs all the help it can get.

You vaccinate the girls because HPV specifically causes cervical cancer, which boys... don't have. (Also penile and throat cancers, equally devastating though less frequent).

That said, the Quebec government does recommend it for boys, and I seem to recall the CDC does too.

And you CAN get vaccinated once you're sexually active - the public plan here won't cover it over age (I believe) 25, but theres no indication to NOT, unless you just want to assume you've caught it already... seems irresponsible from a medical standpoint, and I would definitely push further

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Yes, the HPV vaccine is also for boys.

I had a very awkward conversation with a very Catholic aunt who was talking about getting her girls the HPV vaccine, which did not exist until I was (a) 26, so right at the top of the age range at that time and (b) had been married several years. She did not see what me being married had to do with my chances of getting cancer. I changed the subject.

[Goldielocks]

HPV - the reason to vaccinate boys is the public health "herd immunization" view.   The more people vaccinated, the less likely unvaccinated people will contract it.

[ysette9]

I can’t understand the resistance to this vaccine. It is literally a vaccine against CANCER, you know, that thing people fundraise for and do walkathons for and wear ribbons of various colors for. What could be less controversial than trying to eliminate cancer?

We Americans have such a weird prudish hangup over everything related to sex. It is disappointingly juvenile and Victorian all at the same time.

[Alfred J Quack]

I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

You got the HPV vaccine as a sexually active adult? I was also too old to get it when it was introduced and was refused the shot later because I was already sexually active. I guess I need to talk to my doctor again sometime! The HPV shot take up rate is something like 40% where I live. The argument I've heard most is that it's an STD and the parents are sure their daughter is a "decent girl" who won't sleep around. Well, for one, you have no idea what your young daughter's sexual behaviour will be like when they grow up, and you can also contract HPV through involuntary sexual contact and even from the only sexual partner you'll ever have. I really don't understand why we only vaccinate girls and not boys. 

I am also immunocompromised and can't get some shots. The ones I can get, I absolutely make sure I get, including boosters. My immune system needs all the help it can get.

You vaccinate the girls because HPV specifically causes cervical cancer, which boys... don't have. (Also penile and throat cancers, equally devastating though less frequent).

That said, the Quebec government does recommend it for boys, and I seem to recall the CDC does too.

And you CAN get vaccinated once you're sexually active - the public plan here won't cover it over age (I believe) 25, but theres no indication to NOT, unless you just want to assume you've caught it already... seems irresponsible from a medical standpoint, and I would definitely push further

Depends on the country, in NL you can't get vaccinated after 18 unless you specifically request it but you also have to pay for it out of pocket. Considering how much pain such a vaccine can probably prevent, I'd consider it worth the money regardless.

It is a bit strange though, to put an age-limit on a vaccine that can prevent it's base cost times 10.000 in healthcare cost later in life...

[Kitsune]

It is a bit strange though, to put an age-limit on a vaccine that can prevent it's base cost times 10.000 in healthcare cost later in life...

The thing is that the vaccine is not cheap, and that enough people over that age range already have HPV (over 40% in 2013-2014, based on CDC data) that it makes sense, on a population level, to focus the vaccination efforts on people who have a higher chance of not having caught it yet in order to eliminate prevalence (hence why we vaccinate in late elementary school - you want it before chance of consensual sexual activity occurs).

Makes sense on a population level, but not really on a personal level - if I have a 60% chance of not having the cause of cervical cancer right now, would I take a vaccine to cement those odds, even if there's a 40% chance that I already have it? HELLS YES I WOULD. Especially if, oh say, I'd been in a monogamous relationship since my teen years and was suddenly looking for new partners (so: low risk currently, high risk future, freakin vaccinate, not having cancer is awesome?). There's a difference between what's sensible on a population level and what's sensible on a personal level - statistics don't reflect individual reality.

(disclaimer: I was actually part of the test group for the vaccine many, many years ago.)

[schmerna]

I can’t understand the resistance to this vaccine. It is literally a vaccine against CANCER, you know, that thing people fundraise for and do walkathons for and wear ribbons of various colors for. What could be less controversial than trying to eliminate cancer?

We Americans have such a weird prudish hangup over everything related to sex. It is disappointingly juvenile and Victorian all at the same time.

While it is a very important vaccine, it is NOT a literal vaccination against cancer.  It is a vaccination against subtypes of a virus that can cause cancer.  Boys and girls should be vaccinated to greatly reduce the risk of women developing cervical cancer.

My apologies, I know for most of the world this is not important difference but very salient my previous life.  I can't help myself...

[mm1970]

I can’t understand the resistance to this vaccine. It is literally a vaccine against CANCER, you know, that thing people fundraise for and do walkathons for and wear ribbons of various colors for. What could be less controversial than trying to eliminate cancer?

We Americans have such a weird prudish hangup over everything related to sex. It is disappointingly juvenile and Victorian all at the same time.

While it is a very important vaccine, it is NOT a literal vaccination against cancer.  It is a vaccination against subtypes of a virus that can cause cancer.  Boys and girls should be vaccinated to greatly reduce the risk of women developing cervical cancer.

My apologies, I know for most of the world this is not important difference but very salient my previous life.  I can't help myself...

Yes, this is a very good discussion.  My teen just got the HPV vaccination.  I realized it was widespread (2 of my sisters had cervical cancer in the 1990s), but not how widespread.  My doc says that almost everyone has been exposed (I've always come up clean, but then I've been married for 23 years now...so anything else would surprise me at this point.)

[ysette9]

I can’t understand the resistance to this vaccine. It is literally a vaccine against CANCER, you know, that thing people fundraise for and do walkathons for and wear ribbons of various colors for. What could be less controversial than trying to eliminate cancer?

We Americans have such a weird prudish hangup over everything related to sex. It is disappointingly juvenile and Victorian all at the same time.

While it is a very important vaccine, it is NOT a literal vaccination against cancer.  It is a vaccination against subtypes of a virus that can cause cancer.  Boys and girls should be vaccinated to greatly reduce the risk of women developing cervical cancer.

My apologies, I know for most of the world this is not important difference but very salient my previous life.  I can't help myself...

Totally fair! Thanks for the clarification

[marty998]

I just had an exchange (on a Choose FI Facebook group no less) that really got me riled up.

The Antimustachian in question is concerned about certain tax changes if the opposition party wins the upcoming election. She stands to lose a certain amount of tax credits, which indicates she has a share portfolio well over a million dollars, possibly $1.3million, earning dividend income in a zero tax retirement sheltered account.

Instead of selling a small amount (in the order of ~1% or $10,000) to make up for the loss of tax credits each year, she was proposing to blow the entire million, just so she could access the government age pension worth $33k a year, which is really meant for people of little means.

I am so sick of old people who not only don't understand basic maths, (a share portfolio that returns $70-$100k a year basically tax free indefinitely, vs a government pension on the poverty line), but also old people who simply want to milk the taxpayer because they feel like they are entitled to it.

Honestly feel like there should be an age cap on the right to vote sometimes.

[dragoncar]

How would she blow a million dollars without gaining any hard assets?  Is there no asset test?

[Bloop Bloop]

In Australia, ludicrously, there is no assets test on one's primary residence, and even aside from that, you can have several hundred thousand dollars in green bills sitting there and still get a generous pension.

One reason why old Australians suck the rest of us dry. They are all entitled, just some (like the woman in question) more so.

[SwordGuy]

How would she blow a million dollars without gaining any hard assets?  Is there no asset test?

Easy as all get out.

Buy 3 million dollars worth of items on credit and quit paying when you run out of money.   The stuff gets repossessed and you're left with nothing.


And yes, I know multiple people who not only did that, they also lost everything they owned, including stuff like a fully paid for house they owned before they got that multi-million dollar windfall.

[dragoncar]

How would she blow a million dollars without gaining any hard assets?  Is there no asset test?

Easy as all get out.

Buy 3 million dollars worth of items on credit and quit paying when you run out of money.   The stuff gets repossessed and you're left with nothing.


And yes, I know multiple people who not only did that, they also lost everything they owned, including stuff like a fully paid for house they owned before they got that multi-million dollar windfall.

Doesn’t really sound like any fun though

[SwordGuy]

How would she blow a million dollars without gaining any hard assets?  Is there no asset test?

Easy as all get out.

Buy 3 million dollars worth of items on credit and quit paying when you run out of money.   The stuff gets repossessed and you're left with nothing.


And yes, I know multiple people who not only did that, they also lost everything they owned, including stuff like a fully paid for house they owned before they got that multi-million dollar windfall.

Doesn’t really sound like any fun though

No, it wasn't.  The family self-destructed.  Wife divorced husband, husband got drunk and passed out in his driveway and died from the cold, wife went completely broke, son took over family business and ran it into the ground and lost the house he had built and paid for before all this money hit the family and went broke.  Daughter kept her head.   75% failure rate on handling the money in this family.   They were such a nice couple, too.

[Imma]

I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

You got the HPV vaccine as a sexually active adult? I was also too old to get it when it was introduced and was refused the shot later because I was already sexually active. I guess I need to talk to my doctor again sometime! The HPV shot take up rate is something like 40% where I live. The argument I've heard most is that it's an STD and the parents are sure their daughter is a "decent girl" who won't sleep around. Well, for one, you have no idea what your young daughter's sexual behaviour will be like when they grow up, and you can also contract HPV through involuntary sexual contact and even from the only sexual partner you'll ever have. I really don't understand why we only vaccinate girls and not boys. 

I am also immunocompromised and can't get some shots. The ones I can get, I absolutely make sure I get, including boosters. My immune system needs all the help it can get.

You vaccinate the girls because HPV specifically causes cervical cancer, which boys... don't have. (Also penile and throat cancers, equally devastating though less frequent).

That said, the Quebec government does recommend it for boys, and I seem to recall the CDC does too.

And you CAN get vaccinated once you're sexually active - the public plan here won't cover it over age (I believe) 25, but theres no indication to NOT, unless you just want to assume you've caught it already... seems irresponsible from a medical standpoint, and I would definitely push further

I will definitely ask again next time I see my doctor (a different one than the doctor who said I couldn't get it).

As an adult, I know I have to pay for it out of pocket but as it costs less than €200 that's a very easy choice for me to make. I recently had a meningitis booster that cost €70. That's a no-brainer to me.

[JLee]

https://www.medpagetoday.com/obgyn/cervicalcancer/75551

For what it's worth, the FDA in the US approved the HPV vaccine for up to age 45.

[FireHiker]

Reviving this one today. On the Facebook mom group today I saw a "what is a local place to get yummy avocado toast" post. There were 31 comments with people replying about crazy high end places. I was tempted to chime in with "I make it myself at home when avocados are on sale"...but I didn't. This is the same group that has people regularly ask about cosmetic surgery, house cleaners, etc. I would ditch the place entirely except it's helpful if I want to know what's going on (total group of busybodies) and it's an excellent source of free stuff to pick up and pass along to a local refugee group in a different neighborhood...

[ysette9]

Avocado is a staple in my diet and always has been, and I have yet to see avocado toast on a menu or order it. After hearing about it derided so much recently I am keen to give it a try.

A favorite breakfast for me is avocado cheese sandwich, bonus points for adding an egg. Pretty much every food is better with some avocado on top!

[FireHiker]

Avocado is a staple in my diet and always has been, and I have yet to see avocado toast on a menu or order it. After hearing about it derided so much recently I am keen to give it a try.

A favorite breakfast for me is avocado cheese sandwich, bonus points for adding an egg. Pretty much every food is better with some avocado on top!

I've never ordered it anywhere either! We toast whole wheat bread, fry an egg, slice an avocado on top. Pretty much my favorite breakfast...but only when avocados are on sale or our co-worker (who has a farm) brings some in the office for free.

I was at an airport earlier this year on business when a young man ordered a very specific avocado toast with several modifications (gluten free bread, vegan cheese, etc). First time I'd ever even seen avocado toast on a menu. Fortunately it was a business trip and I had an incredible salad from the same place, still well under per diem.

[economista]

I love eating avocado toast at home and I have a very specific way of making it. I toast the bread, put smashed avocado on top (sliced avocado likes to fall off), sprinkle with salt and sirarcha, and then a fried egg on top. It is heavenly

[ysette9]

@bracken_joy introduced me to avocado on bread with the addition of Trader Joe’s chili lime seasoning. YUM

Incidentally that seasoning is what my 5 year-old calls “my favorite spice”. She will literally eat it directly off a plate with her finger

[mm1970]

I love eating avocado toast at home and I have a very specific way of making it. I toast the bread, put smashed avocado on top (sliced avocado likes to fall off), sprinkle with salt and sirarcha, and then a fried egg on top. It is heavenly

Change the sriracha to "everything but the bagel seasoning" and ... same

[dragoncar]

Avocado is a staple in my diet and always has been, and I have yet to see avocado toast on a menu or order it. After hearing about it derided so much recently I am keen to give it a try.

A favorite breakfast for me is avocado cheese sandwich, bonus points for adding an egg. Pretty much every food is better with some avocado on top!

I've never ordered it anywhere either! We toast whole wheat bread, fry an egg, slice an avocado on top. Pretty much my favorite breakfast...but only when avocados are on sale or our co-worker (who has a farm) brings some in the office for free.

I was at an airport earlier this year on business when a young man ordered a very specific avocado toast with several modifications (gluten free bread, vegan cheese, etc). First time I'd ever even seen avocado toast on a menu. Fortunately it was a business trip and I had an incredible salad from the same place, still well under per diem.

I think it's more popular in Australia.  I see tons of guacamole on menus, or sliced avocado, but never seen "smashed and spread on toast"

P.S. FU trump for driving up Avocado prices

[Kitsune]

I love eating avocado toast at home and I have a very specific way of making it. I toast the bread, put smashed avocado on top (sliced avocado likes to fall off), sprinkle with salt and sirarcha, and then a fried egg on top. It is heavenly

Change the sriracha to "everything but the bagel seasoning" and ... same

Add lime juice to the sriracha and I'm right there with you. Yum.

But yum at-home food, for like 1$/portion...

[Fae]

Not from Facebook, but I had to share what my husband told me yesterday. My husband and some of his friends went camping the week of Memorial Day. They started talking about money and when my husband mentioned how much personal spending money he gets every month ($400, this includes a few small bills that he pays and any spending on booze or restaurants) his friends freaked out because......... that wasn't enough money, how could he possibly have any fun or do anything on that amount?!!
These guys make really good money, like really good money (100k-200k) but between the cars, vacations, and "toys",  they'll be lucky to retire at 67.

[Kitsune]

Not from Facebook, but I had to share what my husband told me yesterday. My husband and some of his friends went camping the week of Memorial Day. They started talking about money and when my husband mentioned how much personal spending money he gets every month ($400, this includes a few small bills that he pays and any spending on booze or restaurants) his friends freaked out because......... that wasn't enough money, how could he possibly have any fun or do anything on that amount?!!
These guys make really good money, like really good money (100k-200k) but between the cars, vacations, and "toys",  they'll be lucky to retire at 67.

???????? 400$ OMFG!

(For comparison: my husband and I make over 100K, and generally spend 50-60$/month on personal stuff - books for me, music for him, the occasional coffee or lunch out with friends... And this is not feeling deprived. This is genuinely how much I want to spend on a few books and a few lunches with friends. Exactly how much free time am I supposed to have that needs filling???)

Caveat: work pays for half my cell phone and my husband's is completely paid for by his work, and neither of us watch much TV but we keep netflix around as a family expense because sometimes a half hour of Octonauts is what lets us get dinner ready and chores done.