Overheard on Facebook

[rbuck]

I am on the local Buy Nothing Group on Facebook, mainly so when I am decluttering I can give stuff away for free to others that might need it. I would say that roughly half the posts are "asks". Now we live on what us considered to be the nicer area of our city.

There are several posts a day about how they are out of diapers, milk, other household staple and  don't get paid for another week. Occassionally I will look at their profiles and invariably there are pictures of nice trips or their new toys. It is genuinely depressing to see so many people on the edge when they have means to be doing so much better.

I know it's considered rude, but really, making a comment that included links to all their wasteful spending posts, with the observation that maybe if they spent more on necessities they wouldn't have to beg from others, might actually help them out.   More likely, though, you would be kicked out of the FB group for "not getting it".

I moderate a BNP group, and we really aren't allowed to kick people out for almost anything, that comment would be immediately deleted.
We also don't allow sob stories though.  You can "Ask: size 2 diapers, today please" but not "Ask: Size 2 diapers, we don't get paid and my child will have to go without and it's below freezing, and poor me."

BNP is not a needs-based giving economy.  Wants and needs are of equal value within BNP.

That is good to now. A lot of those posts seem to skirt the line as in, "I just used the last diaper on my 1 year old and don't get paid again for another week. I was just taken aback because the amount of asks was so high. I'm probably more senstive to this issue because of an issue my wife and I had with some friends.

We had some friends that were really great people. The mom didn't work and the father made decent money but they had 4 kids and  house in a HCOL area. The mom is out with my wife for a girl's night out at a local restaurant (WTF?) and starts crying that they don't have the basic household items and her husband doesn't get paid for a week. My wife feels bad so we go to Costco and buy some diapers, milk, bread, sandwich meat, hamburger meat, and toilet paper and dropped it off at her home without telling her who it was from. While I would freely give without resentment to someone in need this really irked me. The husband was just starting his "Crossfit Journey" so he was paying for his Crossfit gym membership, he was talking some course so he could become a trainer, and he was paying to attend various competitions as well. He had to be paying out at least $400 a month just to Crossfit activities while his family couldn't afford food.

[Kyle Schuant]

They might have been able to afford food, but not the kind of food they are accustomed to eating. Someone paying $400 a month for Crossfit probably isn't checking out the bargain aisle at the greengrocer and supermarket. It'll be organic free range imported fair trade gluten-free palaeo something.

The average Australian household with a couple and youngest child under 5, like us, spends AUD282pw on food [source 1]. We spend 130, and we drink small amounts of alcohol, eat meat, fish and dairy, etc - we just don't eat out, really.

We don't really think about it, but essentially we're on a GST-free diet. Sales tax in Australia does not apply to fresh foods [source 2]. At shops when you get your receipt, stuff that had GST has an asterisk; if those are all missing then you probably have a diet which is both cheap and healthy, however you'd have to cook it. For example, dry or fresh pasta noodles, onions, garlic, cream, mushrooms, raw chicken, chicken stock and pepper do not attract GST, but "Hand-rolled penne with Gippsland mushrooms and chicken in a creamy sauce" for $22 at a restaurant does.

I would expect that people who have lifestyles of a lot of travel, Crossfit and so on, will also be contributing lots of GST to the tax office, and spending much more overall. After all, if the average is $282 and we're spending $130, then to keep the average up, someone is spending $424.

[ProxyRetired]

Local "News" Facebok group with 30K+ followers gets spun up about all kinds of things. Very conservative minded admins... lower my taxes, government too big, police are the best, how dare we raise the gas tax to support our roads (never mind it hasn't been raised in almost 25 years), etc. Once and a while, a house burns down or such, and the group has a thread to support the local family, get them clothes and whatever else they need to get back on their feet. Yay and stuff.

Lately, there's been a thread. A poor, somewhat disabled Veteran needs a car. He hasn't a car for almost two years. Can't afford the car or insurance! So the group has come together! They're getting him a car!... but wait, there's also the registration!... good, now we can... wait, no we need insurance! Who's going to pay for the man's insurance? And... the car needs tires to apparently. But all is well, and the group is slowly gathering all the funds to buy this guy a car.

I wonder if they've thought about the implications for next year. Who's gonna pay for the fuel? Maintenance? Next year's insurance and oil changes? Piss poor charity is worse then no charity at all sometimes.

[JAYSLOL]

A classmate from high school wrote on Facebook today

"Just keep winning free play on our lotto tickets (frowny face), I'd be happy with hundred thou and be out of debt.  Some day I'll win big (smiley face)"

Doubt it.  (Face palm face)

Update time.  Same person just posted a photo of a 65" 4K LED Smart TV with the caption "present for husband".  Dare I ask if she's out of debt now?

Another update, this just keeps getting worse.  Today she wrote

"I feel like the world has fallen on my shoulders, after I get baby to sleep I'm going to call subsidy to see if we qualify, but from the sounds of it we don't so we are basically screwed.  I can't afford $530 a month for daycare, LMAO, I'm already drowning in debt as it is"

I have no words.  No. Fucking. Words.

New update today for this person, I didn't think they could top the last one but boy did they find a way. 
They posted a photo of their truck, which is/was a brand new Dodge Ram with the biggest cab I've ever seen, which apparently they had purchased new 3 years ago, along with the following garbage..

"Call us crazy LOL we have traded in our vehicle a million times, but I'd rather be stuck in a vehicle I actually like!! We are in over our head but I don't care!!  One of these days I'll win the lottery :)"

What does it take for someone like this to see the light?  I just don't understand!

Good god.  Today this person posted a photo of a BRAND NEW DODGE DURANGO!  Yes, they rolled the sizeable debt from the truck into an equally enormous and even more expensive vehicle.  WTF!

[Just Joe]

I guess they are planning to spend themselves right out of debt - right?

Broke and cool is more important than "boring" and rich these days. Meanwhile let's advertise our bad decisions to all of humanity.

[a286]

The big thing in our house was a) letting them play with couch cushions including making couch cushion forts, and b) cardboard boxes. To the extent one birthday she got this as part of her themed birthday. All the kids decorated and played in it and it was definitely worth the money play-value wise. 
 https://www.amazon.com/Easy-Playhouse-EP2001-Castle/dp/B006ZPO5AK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1543521459&sr=8-3&keywords=cardboard+castle

but yeah my youngest especially would go to town on both the tissue boxes and pulling all the toliet paper down from the rolls.

Couch cushion forts were the best! My sister and I would add in some blankets and use other pieces of furniture to make couch cushion mansions.  Those where some great days.

Or - throw a blanket over a table. All reasons to have a comfortable, casual home - so the kids can be kids. Better than 20 years of stressing over fancy furniture.

A friend had a 4 poster bed growing up because we'd take a sheet or a big blanket and use hair ties to hook it to the Four posts..  then of course we took another blanket and hooked it on two posts and stretched it to the dresser... or wed drape blankets down the side of the bed for an instant club house.

[JAYSLOL]

I guess they are planning to spend themselves right out of debt - right?

Broke and cool is more important than "boring" and rich these days. Meanwhile let's advertise our bad decisions to all of humanity.

And the worst part is all the encouragement to keep doing what they're doing, they got a ton of replies to the photo of the new SUV and all of them were like "congrats! hard work pays off!".  Yeah, future hard works gonna be paying that off for a loooong time.  And seriously, "congrats! hard work pays off!"? it's not like they graduated from fucking med school, literally anyone with a pulse these days can get a car loan.  And it's not like I can jump in and question their choice or offer sensible advice, I'd be crucified, how dare I crush their dreams of being wage-slaves forever while destroying the environment as efficiently as possible. 

[Dabnasty]

I guess they are planning to spend themselves right out of debt - right?

Broke and cool is more important than "boring" and rich these days. Meanwhile let's advertise our bad decisions to all of humanity.

And the worst part is all the encouragement to keep doing what they're doing, they got a ton of replies to the photo of the new SUV and all of them were like "congrats! hard work pays off!".  Yeah, future hard works gonna be paying that off for a loooong time.  And seriously, "congrats! hard work pays off!"? it's not like they graduated from fucking med school, literally anyone with a pulse these days can get a car loan.  And it's not like I can jump in and question their choice or offer sensible advice, I'd be crucified, how dare I crush their dreams of being wage-slaves forever while destroying the environment as efficiently as possible.

Hard work shopping and signing all that paperwork maybe?

Congrats is really the last thing these people need to hear, but then again it's probably exactly what they're looking for when they post they're bad decisions.

[partgypsy]

It would be very hard for me to refrain from saying something in that situation. I would be tempted to say, "I'm glad you posted about your new car. I will give me something to think about the next time you post about not having money for bills or your kids"

[JAYSLOL]

It would be very hard for me to refrain from saying something in that situation. I would be tempted to say, "I'm glad you posted about your new car. I will give me something to think about the next time you post about not having money for bills or your kids"

I'm tempted too, but I'm not going to do that unless she asked me personally for money, which she won't likely do because we are just former classmates/Facebook friends that don't really communicate

[Threshkin]

It would be very hard for me to refrain from saying something in that situation. I would be tempted to say, "I'm glad you posted about your new car. I will give me something to think about the next time you post about not having money for bills or your kids"

I'm tempted too, but I'm not going to do that unless she asked me personally for money, which she won't likely do because we are just former classmates/Facebook friends that don't really communicate

Best to keep out of it.

[FireHiker]

I guess this belongs in relative and/or facebook. I have a cousin who makes...questionable...financial choices. She dropped out of college and got sucked into the whole MLM world. So far I've seen her hawking Plexus and LLR and others; I lose track. She and her husband now have 3 young kids and are expecting #4. They both come from big families and even though I think the first one wasn't planned, the other three have been. She just posted a picture of them in front of a brand new Suburban because "growing family = we need a new giant car". I'm not sure what her husband does, but I think she is teaching preschool right now as her "#momboss" MLM things haven't worked out...I don't know how the hell they can afford that car so I can only imagine the payments. The thing that is astounding to me is all of the congratulations. Sigh.

[Just Joe]

You too can afford the $50K SUV/pickup/musclecar if you stretch the payments out over enough months... 96 months? 108 months?

A 2012 Suburban is about $22K. A 2017 is about $38K.

[KodeBlue]

You too can afford the $50K SUV/pickup/musclecar if you stretch the payments out over enough months... 96 months? 108 months?

A 2012 Suburban is about $22K. A 2017 is about $38K.

I wonder what the longest they'll stretch a car loan out is? 120 mos.? 144? 1,324 mos.?

[Just Joe]

If I person takes equity out of their house to buy a car wouldn't that potentially be stretching a car loan 360+ months? I assume using equity for a car loan is possible as opposed to getting a car loan. Ouch the interest on that car...

[Dave1442397]

You too can afford the $50K SUV/pickup/musclecar if you stretch the payments out over enough months... 96 months? 108 months?

A 2012 Suburban is about $22K. A 2017 is about $38K.

I wonder what the longest they'll stretch a car loan out is? 120 mos.? 144? 1,324 mos.?

I see 120 months here, but I notice that you can get an 84-month loan up to $20k, but they want you to borrow $40k for a 120-month loan.

https://www.psecu.com/loans/auto-loans/new-used-cars

The interest rate jumps dramatically going from 84 to 120 months. I guess they want the suckers who want to drive $40k+ vehicles but have no money.

[I'm a red panda]

A friend bought a nugget ice maker. 

While I'm a little jealous, the thing is like $500 (they got it half off though- a steal at $250?). And their teeny tiny kitchen (they live in an expensive house in an extraordinary HCOL area) has zero room for such things. 

Her husband bought it for her because she "wastes so much money on take out drinks to get better ice".

Who knows, maybe it's frugal in the long run, for them, and they can certainly afford it- but that just seems insane!

[zolotiyeruki]

A friend bought a nugget ice maker. 
...

Ah, so THAT's what that kind of ice is called!  I love that stuff.  And the idea of having my own nugget ice maker is exciting.  But it ain't free, and if I had one, I'd be tempted to make and consume more sugary stuff for myself, which wouldn't be healthy.

[I'm a red panda]

A friend bought a nugget ice maker. 
...

Ah, so THAT's what that kind of ice is called!  I love that stuff.  And the idea of having my own nugget ice maker is exciting.  But it ain't free, and if I had one, I'd be tempted to make and consume more sugary stuff for myself, which wouldn't be healthy.

To be fair, nugget ice is also delicious in water.

[Sugaree]

A friend bought a nugget ice maker. 

While I'm a little jealous, the thing is like $500 (they got it half off though- a steal at $250?). And their teeny tiny kitchen (they live in an expensive house in an extraordinary HCOL area) has zero room for such things. 

Her husband bought it for her because she "wastes so much money on take out drinks to get better ice".

Who knows, maybe it's frugal in the long run, for them, and they can certainly afford it- but that just seems insane!

I thought very seriously about getting one of those as a xmas present for DH when it was on sale for like $425.  In the end, I didn't but at $250 I would have definitely jumped on it. 

[Just Joe]

Why not get a $25 ice grinder/chipper?

[I'm a red panda]

Why not get a $25 ice grinder/chipper?

Nugget ice is partially hollow and frozen at lower temperatures. It makes it easier to chew.

[ysette9]

I love love love that kind of ice. They actually have one at work next to the sparkling water dispenser. I joked at orientation that the best perk of joining this company is sparkling water on tap. I’m so spoiled.

[dragoncar]

I love love love that kind of ice. They actually have one at work next to the sparkling water dispenser. I joked at orientation that the best perk of joining this company is sparkling water on tap. I’m so spoiled.

Wow, I love that kind of ice too.  Not $500 love, but I would definitely spend some money for it.  Why are they so durn expensive though?

[JAYSLOL]

Just saw an ad on FaceBook for a shower head essential oil infuser, like it actually mixes essential oil into the water as you have a shower.  Why the actual heck would i want to hose myself off with lavender oil or some other crap?  And why would FaceBook think I was a good match for that ad? 

[I'm a red panda]

Just saw an ad on FaceBook for a shower head essential oil infuser, like it actually mixes essential oil into the water as you have a shower.  Why the actual heck would i want to hose myself off with lavender oil or some other crap?  And why would FaceBook think I was a good match for that ad?

Part 1) I LOVE peppermint or orange oil in my shower in the morning. It helps wake me up. The infuser puts barely any in, just for scent.  I just drip some on the floor though.
2) No idea.

[partgypsy]

Is nugget ice that stuff you get in commercial ice dispensers that is kind of soft and chewy? I loved the heck out of that stuff when in college (getting my free water at the college coffee house). Still I had no idea you could even buy a home version of it. That's an awful lot of soft drinks to buy to justify that kind of expense, even if it does completely eliminate her purchasing of drinks (which I doubt).

[I'm a red panda]

Is nugget ice that stuff you get in commercial ice dispensers that is kind of soft and chewy? I loved the heck out of that stuff when in college (getting my free water at the college coffee house). Still I had no idea you could even buy a home version of it. That's an awful lot of soft drinks to buy to justify that kind of expense, even if it does completely eliminate her purchasing of drinks (which I doubt).

Yep.  Like Sonic has.

[Proud Foot]

Is nugget ice that stuff you get in commercial ice dispensers that is kind of soft and chewy? I loved the heck out of that stuff when in college (getting my free water at the college coffee house). Still I had no idea you could even buy a home version of it. That's an awful lot of soft drinks to buy to justify that kind of expense, even if it does completely eliminate her purchasing of drinks (which I doubt).

Yep.  Like Sonic has.

And you can buy bags of the ice at Sonic too.

[ysette9]

It is also delicious all by itself

[Bloop Bloop]

The manipulative / bad-faith / incredibly shifty posts on Facebook I wouldn't tolerate at all. If any of my friends posted that shit I'd unfriend them (both on FB and in real life) immediately. There are enough users and losers in this world without trying to voluntarily associate with them.

One of my good mates just got sucked into an MLM unfortunately - he's a good mate so I'm going to try to dissuade him from it, but if I wasn't already friend with him I'd drop him like a hot potato.

[bluebelle]

Hi All, I'm coming here in hopes of a rational response.....but need to give background information to give context

Canada has an amber alert policy that has forced wireless carries to disable smart phone functionality that overrides any silent or do not disturb settings and send amber alerts through the phone.   My only recourse is to turn off the phone, which isn't an option, I have nonagenarian parents, I'm in IT, I'm on call.  I have my phone set to do not disturb and allow 'favourites' to ring through.

There was a tragic case Thursday evening of a father killing his child.   The first amber alert went out at 11:37pm, The second at 12:45am the next day.   It happened in the GTA (greater Toronto area) and I'm hearing conflicting reports that the alert may have been been even more wide spread that than....So let's say conservately that 4 million people we awakened twice Thursday night.   As to be expected, there was alot of complaints about the late night alerts.  Some very stupid, with calls to 911 to complain.

Cue Friday, and all the Facebook posts about how to save a child wake me up anytime, and one of our national magazines published an online article that basically said that anyone that objected to being awakend was a 'horrible person', 'not a good person'.  Someone posted a link to that article ( https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/you-are-horrible-people ), with the tag line 'this shouldn't even need to be said'.  I was tired and grumpy (4 hours disturbed sleep!), so I replied to the effect that I thought it inappropriate that a national magazine publish such an inflammatory piece and that I thought our government over-reached to disable smart phone functionality.

Man - unleash the haters.  holy shit.  I've disengaged, because well, it's pointless to try and have an intelligent arguement with an unarmed apponent.

I find the MMM community able to have a rational, thoughtful discussion - Do you think I should have the right to choose to not get amber alerts in the middle of the night?   Really, what do these people think I'm going to do?  Get dressed and go out looking?  That I should 'get over myself', so what if I lost sleep, a CHILD was missing.   

I am asking for constructive feedback/thoughtful cases as to why my individual right to use my electronic device as a choose should be overriden by the 'greater good' af spamming an amber alert.   And remeber I'm only protesting my inability to silence that amber alert through 'silent' or 'do not disturb' functionality.   I'm all for sending them when I'm awake and potentially able to contribute useful information.

[ixtap]

What the fuck is anyone going to do about the tragedy from their bedroom in the middle of the night?

[bluebelle]

What the fuck is anyone going to do about the tragedy from their bedroom in the middle of the night?

that was one of my points.....thank you......apparently I am looking for external validation.

[Imma]

Our emergency services do the same thing; we were recently woken up by a message telling us to close windows and doors due to potentially toxic smoke from a fire. Pretty useful.

In case of an amber alert, at least in my country, it's not a message telling you to go out and go looking, but something along the lines of 'keep your eyes open for a red Honda with this license plate' and is only sent out when a child is in potentially lethal situation. A lot of people don't sleep at night and this might save the kid's life. Maybe the message even wakes you up, you can't fall asleep after that and you look out of the window and see the suspect's car. Yes, I think waking up for 2 minutes at night is a small price to pay if that means an abducted kid in danger might survive. We all know those first hours are vital.

[geekette]

I've turned off Amber Alerts (US based iPhone).  Even if you can't do that, I do think it should honor DND. 

[bluebelle]

Our emergency services do the same thing; we were recently woken up by a message telling us to close windows and doors due to potentially toxic smoke from a fire. Pretty useful.

In case of an amber alert, at least in my country, it's not a message telling you to go out and go looking, but something along the lines of 'keep your eyes open for a red Honda with this license plate' and is only sent out when a child is in potentially lethal situation. A lot of people don't sleep at night and this might save the kid's life. Maybe the message even wakes you up, you can't fall asleep after that and you look out of the window and see the suspect's car. Yes, I think waking up for 2 minutes at night is a small price to pay if that means an abducted kid in danger might survive. We all know those first hours are vital.

thank you for a thoughtful response.  Our messages are similar.  Do you have the option putting your phone 'do not disturb'?  This is the main thing I am objecting to, that my over-reaching government has deemed that I don't have the right to 'do not disturb'.....the same government that allows anti-vaxers to not inoculate their child and put other children at risk.

and do people really fall back to sleep in two minutes after an ear piercing alert?  I was still awake when the second one came in an hour later, and awake 2 hours after that.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Our emergency services do the same thing; we were recently woken up by a message telling us to close windows and doors due to potentially toxic smoke from a fire. Pretty useful.

In case of an amber alert, at least in my country, it's not a message telling you to go out and go looking, but something along the lines of 'keep your eyes open for a red Honda with this license plate' and is only sent out when a child is in potentially lethal situation. A lot of people don't sleep at night and this might save the kid's life. Maybe the message even wakes you up, you can't fall asleep after that and you look out of the window and see the suspect's car. Yes, I think waking up for 2 minutes at night is a small price to pay if that means an abducted kid in danger might survive. We all know those first hours are vital.

thank you for a thoughtful response.  Our messages are similar.  Do you have the option putting your phone 'do not disturb'?  This is the main thing I am objecting to, that my over-reaching government has deemed that I don't have the right to 'do not disturb'.....the same government that allows anti-vaxers to not inoculate their child and put other children at risk.

and do people really fall back to sleep in two minutes after an ear piercing alert?  I was still awake when the second one came in an hour later, and awake 2 hours after that.

To me, it seems reasonable to have layers of "do not disturb".

Do not robo-call me and chew up airtime I have to pay for: 24x7
Do not solicit me: 24x7
Do not yap about politicians or surveys: 24x7
Only a specific list of callers will cause my phone to ring, others go to voice mail: during my usual sleep hours only
Amber alerts go to voice mail or the text queue but wake me up for imminent threats to myself: during my usual sleep hours only
... etc.

Why exactly should this so difficult to program? It's the kind of if/then logic even a high school kid should be able to manage, so with all the whizbang crap that lets your location be tracked by every messed-up stalker around and that lets your head be put into someone else's porn film, you'd think they have the programming skills.

Any phone manufacturer that made the above configurations standard would have an incredible sales boost.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

What the fuck is anyone going to do about the tragedy from their bedroom in the middle of the night?

Um... realise they saw something critical 4 hours earlier and call the police before some shitbag has the opportunity to move, abuse or kill a child??? Do you also bitch and moan if the fire department uses sirens while attending your neighbour's house fire while you're trying to watch the news??? After all, what are you meant to do about said fire?

[Goldielocks]

What the fuck is anyone going to do about the tragedy from their bedroom in the middle of the night?

Um... realise they saw something critical 4 hours earlier and call the police before some shitbag has the opportunity to move, abuse or kill a child??? Do you also bitch and moan if the fire department uses sirens while attending your neighbour's house fire while you're trying to watch the news??? After all, what are you meant to do about said fire?

Actually, people complain about fire alarms all the time.  I lived across the street from a fire station and they had a policy to not turn on the sirens  at night (unless necessary) within 2 blocks of the fire hall.  That way they spread out the "wake people up at night" factor...  people would be impacted only 1/3 of the time, because they would drive in different directions depending on the call.

I think the challenge with the Amber Alert is -- multiple calls in the night, not just one...and..   Sent out to 4 million people, overriding DND, not to just 1000 people (example) in the target area.  This could lead to Amber alerts several times a week or more in major areas, if they don't fine tune their settings.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

What the fuck is anyone going to do about the tragedy from their bedroom in the middle of the night?

Um... realise they saw something critical 4 hours earlier and call the police before some shitbag has the opportunity to move, abuse or kill a child??? Do you also bitch and moan if the fire department uses sirens while attending your neighbour's house fire while you're trying to watch the news??? After all, what are you meant to do about said fire?

Actually, people complain about fire alarms all the time.  I lived across the street from a fire station and they had a policy to not turn on the sirens  at night (unless necessary) within 2 blocks of the fire hall.  That way they spread out the "wake people up at night" factor...  people would be impacted only 1/3 of the time, because they would drive in different directions depending on the call.

I think the challenge with the Amber Alert is -- multiple calls in the night, not just one...and..   Sent out to 4 million people, overriding DND, not to just 1000 people (example) in the target area.  This could lead to Amber alerts several times a week or more in major areas, if they don't fine tune their settings.

I hate this kind of selfish take on life. If you want the benefits of living in a herd, there are certain prices to pay, and this is one of them. Someone fighting for their life over-rules your convenience EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

I see this most often in hospital waiting rooms, some twit with a cut needing a few stitches whining because they were first.... meanwhile an infant needs resus. I just tell them now - sorry, arsehole, we're trying to save the inconvenient life of a two year old out the back, fucking two year olds, you know how it is.

[Rural]

What the fuck is anyone going to do about the tragedy from their bedroom in the middle of the night?

Um... realise they saw something critical 4 hours earlier and call the police before some shitbag has the opportunity to move, abuse or kill a child??? Do you also bitch and moan if the fire department uses sirens while attending your neighbour's house fire while you're trying to watch the news??? After all, what are you meant to do about said fire?

Actually, people complain about fire alarms all the time.  I lived across the street from a fire station and they had a policy to not turn on the sirens  at night (unless necessary) within 2 blocks of the fire hall.  That way they spread out the "wake people up at night" factor...  people would be impacted only 1/3 of the time, because they would drive in different directions depending on the call.

I think the challenge with the Amber Alert is -- multiple calls in the night, not just one...and..   Sent out to 4 million people, overriding DND, not to just 1000 people (example) in the target area.  This could lead to Amber alerts several times a week or more in major areas, if they don't fine tune their settings.

I hate this kind of selfish take on life. If you want the benefits of living in a herd, there are certain prices to pay, and this is one of them. Someone fighting for their life over-rules your convenience EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

I see this most often in hospital waiting rooms, some twit with a cut needing a few stitches whining because they were first.... meanwhile an infant needs resus. I just tell them now - sorry, arsehole, we're trying to save the inconvenient life of a two year old out the back, fucking two year olds, you know how it is.

But this is a false equivalence. Some asshole in the ER /= four million people spread over who knows what distance, uninvolved with the tragic event, and who have tried to adjust the settings on their phones so they can sleep in their homes, until the government overrides those settings not once but twice. Of the four million, how many do you suppose were trauma surgeons who needed to be fresh the next day to save lives? How many others similar? It doesn't even accomplish the "greater good" goal.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Then of course Amber Alerts often aren't timely or accurate. Frequently they are not released until hours after the body is found. Then there's the second alert that contains the same information as the first one, and the third extra unneccessary alert that cancels the first two. Result: you're woken up three times. First, it's because of something bad that happened two hundred miles away five hours ago, and they found the missing kid three hours ago. Then, it's because it's an hour later and there was fresh information six hours ago. Finally it's two hours later, canceling both alerts. You have lost four hours of sleep, and every single wake-up was completely unnecessary because the victim had already been found.

Most of the time it's two bickering parents who are too immature to manage their divorce like adults, and one decides to call in a false report against the other.

[shelivesthedream]

Huh, I'd never heard of amber alerts. Having googled them, yes, I would be really pissed off if it overrode DND on my phone. DND would be on when I would not be in a position to do anything (eg. In my bedroom in the middle of the night) and I would presumably get it when I woke up.

I would love an emergency text alert system for floods or terrorist attacks that DID override DND, though. I don't think k we have anything like that over here.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

What the fuck is anyone going to do about the tragedy from their bedroom in the middle of the night?

Um... realise they saw something critical 4 hours earlier and call the police before some shitbag has the opportunity to move, abuse or kill a child??? Do you also bitch and moan if the fire department uses sirens while attending your neighbour's house fire while you're trying to watch the news??? After all, what are you meant to do about said fire?

Actually, people complain about fire alarms all the time.  I lived across the street from a fire station and they had a policy to not turn on the sirens  at night (unless necessary) within 2 blocks of the fire hall.  That way they spread out the "wake people up at night" factor...  people would be impacted only 1/3 of the time, because they would drive in different directions depending on the call.

I think the challenge with the Amber Alert is -- multiple calls in the night, not just one...and..   Sent out to 4 million people, overriding DND, not to just 1000 people (example) in the target area.  This could lead to Amber alerts several times a week or more in major areas, if they don't fine tune their settings.

I hate this kind of selfish take on life. If you want the benefits of living in a herd, there are certain prices to pay, and this is one of them. Someone fighting for their life over-rules your convenience EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

I see this most often in hospital waiting rooms, some twit with a cut needing a few stitches whining because they were first.... meanwhile an infant needs resus. I just tell them now - sorry, arsehole, we're trying to save the inconvenient life of a two year old out the back, fucking two year olds, you know how it is.

But this is a false equivalence. Some asshole in the ER /= four million people spread over who knows what distance, uninvolved with the tragic event, and who have tried to adjust the settings on their phones so they can sleep in their homes, until the government overrides those settings not once but twice. Of the four million, how many do you suppose were trauma surgeons who needed to be fresh the next day to save lives? How many others similar? It doesn't even accomplish the "greater good" goal.

It's not false equivalency at all.... because the fact is that all of those people woken up are completely prepared to be woken up as long as they feel it involves them. That's why their phone is on. It's on for stupid texts from friends, a morning alarm, so you can hear urgent info about your own kids (obviously more important that someone else's...), in my neck of the woods it's on for tsunami alerts, it's even on for parcel delivery texts. If you don't want anyone waking you, do what trauma surgeons actually do and turn your phone off. That's right, they turn their phones off when they're off duty. The fact is that a child in danger does involve all of the millions of people in the vicinity, because any one of those could have seen something that would save a life. You have the choice whether of not you participate, so stop whining when you get a text that wasn't one you wanted.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Then of course Amber Alerts often aren't timely or accurate. Frequently they are not released until hours after the body is found. Then there's the second alert that contains the same information as the first one, and the third extra unneccessary alert that cancels the first two. Result: you're woken up three times. First, it's because of something bad that happened two hundred miles away five hours ago, and they found the missing kid three hours ago. Then, it's because it's an hour later and there was fresh information six hours ago. Finally it's two hours later, canceling both alerts. You have lost four hours of sleep, and every single wake-up was completely unnecessary because the victim had already been found.

Most of the time it's two bickering parents who are too immature to manage their divorce like adults, and one decides to call in a false report against the other.

This bit could be completely better managed, no argument there.

[marty998]

Then of course Amber Alerts often aren't timely or accurate. Frequently they are not released until hours after the body is found. Then there's the second alert that contains the same information as the first one, and the third extra unneccessary alert that cancels the first two. Result: you're woken up three times. First, it's because of something bad that happened two hundred miles away five hours ago, and they found the missing kid three hours ago. Then, it's because it's an hour later and there was fresh information six hours ago. Finally it's two hours later, canceling both alerts. You have lost four hours of sleep, and every single wake-up was completely unnecessary because the victim had already been found.

Most of the time it's two bickering parents who are too immature to manage their divorce like adults, and one decides to call in a false report against the other.

Call me a luddite but would turning off the phone / pulling out the battery be the solution?

Then of course lots of furious lobbying at the next election to amend the scope an intrusiveness of alerts.

[bluebelle]

Call me a luddite but would turning off the phone / pulling out the battery be the solution?

Then of course lots of furious lobbying at the next election to amend the scope an intrusiveness of alerts.

I don' t have the option of turning off the phone - I'm on call for work and have elderly parents.  I SHOULD have the option to choose who can ring through a do not disturb option, the Canadian government had that option taken away from me.  They had the wireless companies disable functionality on smart phones.  That is want I'm rallying against, the it is government over-reach.    And it's not even effective - some sound sleepers slept through it or heard it, wondered what the noise was and rolled over.  It's the light or poor sleepers like me that ended up awake for several hours.

And an unexpected phone alert is not the same as a fire hall siren - people who buy houses across from a fire hall/hospital/police station or under an airport flight pattern should expect noise - the house was priced accordingly.

And my original estimate of people affected was probably very low, it went out over a 500-1000 mile radius in the most populated area of Canada.

I am happy to get all the frickin' alerts they want to send me while I'm awake, but if I've put my phone on DND, I'm going to do fuck all, so I want them to fuck off.  I am not a child hating selfish prick who doesn't deserve to live in society, I am a realistic human being who knows what I will and won't do.

[bluebelle]

Then of course Amber Alerts often aren't timely or accurate. Frequently they are not released until hours after the body is found. Then there's the second alert that contains the same information as the first one, and the third extra unneccessary alert that cancels the first two. Result: you're woken up three times. First, it's because of something bad that happened two hundred miles away five hours ago, and they found the missing kid three hours ago. Then, it's because it's an hour later and there was fresh information six hours ago. Finally it's two hours later, canceling both alerts. You have lost four hours of sleep, and every single wake-up was completely unnecessary because the victim had already been found.

Most of the time it's two bickering parents who are too immature to manage their divorce like adults, and one decides to call in a false report against the other.

Call me a luddite but would turning off the phone / pulling out the battery be the solution?

Then of course lots of furious lobbying at the next election to amend the scope an intrusiveness of alerts.

[zolotiyeruki]

thank you for a thoughtful response.  Our messages are similar.  Do you have the option putting your phone 'do not disturb'?  This is the main thing I am objecting to, that my over-reaching government has deemed that I don't have the right to 'do not disturb'.....the same government that allows anti-vaxers to not inoculate their child and put other children at risk.

and do people really fall back to sleep in two minutes after an ear piercing alert?  I was still awake when the second one came in an hour later, and awake 2 hours after that.

There *is* another option: root your phone.  If you have root, you may have that more granular control over emergency broadcasts. Many custom ROMs, including the one on my phone do exactly that. My phone is set to ignore Amber alaerts and presidential alerts (remember when Pres. Obama used that one as a PSA to go and vote?), but show alerts for severe or extreme threats.

EDIT:  I've been corrected on the strikethrough portion above.  I wonder where I got that thought...