Overheard on Facebook

[RunHappy]

Seen on FB:   For the first time in my life, I am going to have a range/oven with features far beyond just the very basic. It's a dual oven range with convection in the bottom oven, five burners on top with space for a griddle in the center, and the ability to set it to do things like delay the beginning of the cooking time, then automatically switch to warming once the food is done cooking/baking. And it's self-cleaning. This cook is going to be in heaven! We just ordered it today and got a fantastic deal. I'm excited about using the appliance and admiring how beautiful it looks in my kitchen, and my husband is excited about eating the food that results from owning it.


This is from a young mother. 2 under 2, husband is SAHD, she's a librarian. How much can she make? They bought the oven because they're moving. At least they did DIY for some of the house stuff. Personally, I don't want 2 ovens, it just means I have to clean 2 of them, plus actually use 2!

In her defense, that stove sounds amazing, and a real game-changer in the kitchen.
 
For people who love to cook, why not? It's not like she's complaining that she can't pay for her lifestyle... or is she?

I see both sides.  My SO wants a fancy stove/oven with double ovens and a warmer, but he cooks all our meals and is a classically trained chef.  Me on the other hand could probably get away with never owning anything more than a microwave.  For someone like me it would be a huge money waster, for him, I would probably never be able to pry him away from it.

[zephyr911]

I get the whole "have good equipment for the things you love doing", but realizing there's very little difference in efficiency OR outcome with spendypants kitchen gear has helped me walk away from a shit-heap of wants without sacrificing my love for whipping up awesome food on a near-daily basis. (I'm the cook in our family, DW is capable but dislikes it and rarely does it). Between a regular smoothtop stove, crock pot, and electric grill, I've hosted 10-20 people in recent time without ever being limited by production capacity.

I've used espresso machines worth more than some cars, and I've used a $5 crapass garage-sale machine to make more or less equal drinks with just slightly more time and skill required. I settled on $100 worth of equipment to make a better capp than I can buy, in less time. The same is true with stoves and ovens... most of the upgrades people do are far beyond the point of diminishing returns, with most of the cost going into cosmetics, small portions to time savings and convenience, and virtually no unique capabilities added.

Unless you're doing actual income-producing work out of your kitchen, the vanishingly small time savings on faster heat or greater multitasking capability are nowhere near enough to justify the expense some of these people brag about. It's silly.

[Kitsunegari]

I get the whole "have good equipment for the things you love doing", but realizing there's very little difference in efficiency OR outcome with spendypants kitchen gear has helped me walk away from a shit-heap of wants without sacrificing my love for whipping up awesome food on a near-daily basis. (I'm the cook in our family, DW is capable but dislikes it and rarely does it). Between a regular smoothtop stove, crock pot, and electric grill, I've hosted 10-20 people in recent time without ever being limited by production capacity.

I've used espresso machines worth more than some cars, and I've used a $5 crapass garage-sale machine to make more or less equal drinks with just slightly more time and skill required. I settled on $100 worth of equipment to make a better capp than I can buy, in less time. The same is true with stoves and ovens... most of the upgrades people do are far beyond the point of diminishing returns, with most of the cost going into cosmetics, small portions to time savings and convenience, and virtually no unique capabilities added.

Unless you're doing actual income-producing work out of your kitchen, the vanishingly small time savings on faster heat or greater multitasking capability are nowhere near enough to justify the expense some of these people brag about. It's silly.

This is one of the things I love about this forum - when consumerism is creeping up on me, I can read you guys and get a dose of common sense.
(That stove tho...)

[Pooperman]

On the other hand, if your choices are 'fancy oven that self-cleans' or 'paying someone to clean the oven', I'd be willing to guess the fancy oven will be less expensive in the long run. This comes up when you consider age/disability as being a factor (i.e. future planning).

[slugline]

Seen on FB:   For the first time in my life, I am going to have a range/oven with features far beyond just the very basic. It's a dual oven range with convection in the bottom oven, five burners on top with space for a griddle in the center, and the ability to set it to do things like delay the beginning of the cooking time, then automatically switch to warming once the food is done cooking/baking. And it's self-cleaning. This cook is going to be in heaven! We just ordered it today and got a fantastic deal. I'm excited about using the appliance and admiring how beautiful it looks in my kitchen, and my husband is excited about eating the food that results from owning it.


This is from a young mother. 2 under 2, husband is SAHD, she's a librarian. How much can she make? They bought the oven because they're moving. At least they did DIY for some of the house stuff. Personally, I don't want 2 ovens, it just means I have to clean 2 of them, plus actually use 2!

They're "moving" -- so this means they are staging the house to sell, right? If potential buyers are expecting to see high-end appliances in that real estate market, this might have been a smart decision that has a payoff later.

[zephyr911]

This is one of the things I love about this forum - when consumerism is creeping up on me, I can read you guys and get a dose of common sense.
(That stove tho...)

Dozoooo :D

On the other hand, if your choices are 'fancy oven that self-cleans' or 'paying someone to clean the oven', I'd be willing to guess the fancy oven will be less expensive in the long run. This comes up when you consider age/disability as being a factor (i.e. future planning).

Lifehack: line bottom of oven with aluminum foil. You're welcome. ;)

[Kitsune]

Unless you're doing actual income-producing work out of your kitchen, the vanishingly small time savings on faster heat or greater multitasking capability are nowhere near enough to justify the expense some of these people brag about. It's silly.

Well, yes and no. Is it going to make you money? Recoup costs? Be "worth it" in a measurable way? No, obviously. Once you have a stove that works (at both high AND steady low temperatures) and an oven that holds steady temperatures... everything else is preference and aesthetics, more or less. But that's true for a lot of things.

Look, there are people here who could never, ever be convinced that a used Fit or Civic would ever possibly meet their needs. There are people who spend 200$+ a month on clothing, make-up, and aesthetics, because it's important to them, and they're willing to work for that. There are people with expensive hobbies (fishing? Boats? firearms?) that bring them joy and that they're unwilling to give up. There are people who will insist that you will pry their housecleaner away from their house over their cold dead body. There are people who value travel, and budget and plan and make FIRE-related plans for that include current and post-retirement travel. And the thing is: as long as you have ONE indulgence (aka: not the full list I just gave), that you budget for it, that you're aware of what it costs and what you give up for it, and that you're aware of what it means for the time you're spending working... You're doing pretty ok, y'know?

For me: I drive a Fit, and, at the peak of my driving-too-much, do less than 7K miles/year. I enjoy the occasional travel, but for me, it's really not essential. I enjoy nice clothes that fit well, buy them, and fix/mend/maintain them so that the overall expense isn't that high. My hobby, though? Cooking. Think elaborate plans to build a multi-level smokehouse in the field behind the house. Smoked trout, anyone? Yeah. So... for me, a gas stove that can be used for a wok, or a double oven... THAT's appealing.

Everyone has their priorities. The point here isn't to avoid all expenses. It's to maximize the happiness-to-stuff ratio. :)

[grantmeaname]

Lifehack: put bricks under the foil. You're double-welcome.

[Pooperman]

This is one of the things I love about this forum - when consumerism is creeping up on me, I can read you guys and get a dose of common sense.
(That stove tho...)

Dozoooo :D

On the other hand, if your choices are 'fancy oven that self-cleans' or 'paying someone to clean the oven', I'd be willing to guess the fancy oven will be less expensive in the long run. This comes up when you consider age/disability as being a factor (i.e. future planning).

Lifehack: line bottom of oven with aluminum foil. You're welcome. ;)

Aluminum on the bottom does not stop one from having to clean the sides and (occasionally) the top. ;)

[zephyr911]

They're "moving" -- so this means they are staging the house to sell, right? If potential buyers are expecting to see high-end appliances in that real estate market, this might have been a smart decision that has a payoff later.

It sounded to me more like they were buying it for their new place. How much baking does it take to actually need two ovens going at the same time? Even at Thanksgiving with a pile of visitors, I don't see many people needing it.

Everyone has their priorities. The point here isn't to avoid all expenses. It's to maximize the happiness-to-stuff ratio. :)

No disagreement here! I'm 100% with you. My remarks were specifically aimed at people who maximize the stuff without substantial gains in happiness. To use a transportation analogy, the example above is like buying a Peterbilt for a short commute in light traffic with a laptop in the back.

I said once & will reiterate now, I fully support buying good gear to do things you love and do often.

[horsepoor]

I get the whole "have good equipment for the things you love doing", but realizing there's very little difference in efficiency OR outcome with spendypants kitchen gear has helped me walk away from a shit-heap of wants without sacrificing my love for whipping up awesome food on a near-daily basis. (I'm the cook in our family, DW is capable but dislikes it and rarely does it). Between a regular smoothtop stove, crock pot, and electric grill, I've hosted 10-20 people in recent time without ever being limited by production capacity.

I've used espresso machines worth more than some cars, and I've used a $5 crapass garage-sale machine to make more or less equal drinks with just slightly more time and skill required. I settled on $100 worth of equipment to make a better capp than I can buy, in less time. The same is true with stoves and ovens... most of the upgrades people do are far beyond the point of diminishing returns, with most of the cost going into cosmetics, small portions to time savings and convenience, and virtually no unique capabilities added.

Unless you're doing actual income-producing work out of your kitchen, the vanishingly small time savings on faster heat or greater multitasking capability are nowhere near enough to justify the expense some of these people brag about. It's silly.

It's kind of a tricky line to tread. We went with a $900 smooth top instead of a $600 one to upgrade to convection and self-cleaning on the oven, and to get the two of the dual-sized burners with one of them a 12".  The lesser stoves don't put out enough heat with a 9" burner to brew beer or boil a 21-quart canner.  So it's not exactly income-producing, but going up a notch or two on features does allow me to do some more useful things.

Her range sounds much more fancy pants - probably in the few thousand dollar range, but umm... at least it sounds like they cook at home a lot?

[justajane]

I get the whole "have good equipment for the things you love doing", but realizing there's very little difference in efficiency OR outcome with spendypants kitchen gear has helped me walk away from a shit-heap of wants without sacrificing my love for whipping up awesome food on a near-daily basis. (I'm the cook in our family, DW is capable but dislikes it and rarely does it). Between a regular smoothtop stove, crock pot, and electric grill, I've hosted 10-20 people in recent time without ever being limited by production capacity.

I've used espresso machines worth more than some cars, and I've used a $5 crapass garage-sale machine to make more or less equal drinks with just slightly more time and skill required. I settled on $100 worth of equipment to make a better capp than I can buy, in less time. The same is true with stoves and ovens... most of the upgrades people do are far beyond the point of diminishing returns, with most of the cost going into cosmetics, small portions to time savings and convenience, and virtually no unique capabilities added.

Unless you're doing actual income-producing work out of your kitchen, the vanishingly small time savings on faster heat or greater multitasking capability are nowhere near enough to justify the expense some of these people brag about. It's silly.

Word. My husband bought a sous vide this year, and sometimes I just roll my eyes at it. Sure, the meat tastes good, but you can find other ways to make your meat just as tender that doesn't involved suspending meat in a vacuum packed Ziploc (at 50 cents a pop) in temperature controlled water for 24 hours. I humor him, though, because that's what you do. He bought the device at a steep discount as well.

I have five burners on our stove (not bought by me), and the middle griddle burner has been used twice in eight years. It's a waste of space. And we are good cooks who make things that technically could use a griddle. Yet still somehow we don't use it.

[MgoSam]

Word. My husband bought a sous vide this year, and sometimes I just roll my eyes at it.

I want one. The only thing holding me back from buying one is the knowledge that I likely wouldn't use it. I got a waffle maker a few months ago and have used it only once (though I plan to use it more often once I move into my own place).

[sheepstache]

Also, my better half is Chinese and small gas burners do not generate enough heat to cook wok food properly. I used to have an apartment designed for the Asian market and it had a wok burner. I've mostly stopped doing wok food because you just don't get the same flavor on a small stove.

That said, I cook more than anyone I know. It's really not something your average home chef needs.

I remember reading Kenny Shopsin's book (he runs Shopsin's down on Essex street) and he mentioned that he drilled out the holes on one of his burners to get a higher output than the highest setting would allow. This may be an incredibly dangerous idea but I'm mentioning it as I know you own and would be able to research further to judge the safety if you were interested.

[zephyr911]

It's kind of a tricky line to tread. We went with a $900 smooth top instead of a $600 one to upgrade to convection and self-cleaning on the oven, and to get the two of the dual-sized burners with one of them a 12".  The lesser stoves don't put out enough heat with a 9" burner to brew beer or boil a 21-quart canner.  So it's not exactly income-producing, but going up a notch or two on features does allow me to do some more useful things.

Her range sounds much more fancy pants - probably in the few thousand dollar range, but umm... at least it sounds like they cook at home a lot?

When we downsized last year, our new-to-us place came with a similar range - a 3-part burner, a bridge burner to turn two small ones into a griddle, and the convection oven. I'm in heaven. But we also drastically reduced our counter space, which has helped me realize how many of our specialized kitchen appliances were totally gratuitous. I find my love of cooking not at all diminished by doing more things the old-fashioned way.

I bake in quantities where a double oven would occasionally be handy, and in a decade when, hopefully, we'll have half a dozen kids, I'd definitely be able to use one. It's unlikely to ever happen, because NYC galley kitchen, but in a perfect world, I'd have one.

Also, my better half is Chinese and small gas burners do not generate enough heat to cook wok food properly. I used to have an apartment designed for the Asian market and it had a wok burner. I've mostly stopped doing wok food because you just don't get the same flavor on a small stove.

That said, I cook more than anyone I know. It's really not something your average home chef needs.

This is a perfect example of the diminishing returns I pointed out: even with higher than average needs, you see it as "nice to have", but in all likelihood will meet all your needs without it. However, I hope your cost-cutting in other areas allows you to have whatever you decide is desirable/ideal in this one! As we all more or less agree here, living well below our means is a good way to make sure we can afford what is most important to us in life.

[zephyr911]

I want one. The only thing holding me back from buying one is the knowledge that I likely wouldn't use it. I got a waffle maker a few months ago and have used it only once (though I plan to use it more often once I move into my own place).

DW is riding me for a waffle iron, and I'm like "where the fuck would we put one"? We barely have space for a cutting board in our kitchen. lol

[hernandz]

My mother thoughtfully got my a microwave when my daughter was born, figuring it would be handy to heat stuff up as a busy new mother. Problems:

1. The counter that holds the microwave has two outlets. That counter also holds the stand mixer and food processor, both of which are used much, much more. I am constantly unplugging and replugging things.

2. I have not had a microwave since moving out, so it never occurs to me to use it, and therefore whenever I need to heat something up, I forget about it and use the stove anyway.

3. It will upset my mother if I get rid of the GD microwave.

For a while I kept one (unplugged) on top of the fridge, and then at a different house, I kept one plugged in the dining area on a $2 trolley/cart. 

[justajane]

Word. My husband bought a sous vide this year, and sometimes I just roll my eyes at it.

I want one. The only thing holding me back from buying one is the knowledge that I likely wouldn't use it. I got a waffle maker a few months ago and have used it only once (though I plan to use it more often once I move into my own place).

I won't lie. It does make some tasty meat, especially cheaper cuts. Carrots are pretty darned delicious too. I'll probably feel better about it when it is winter and the hot water is humidifying and warming my house instead of making the air conditioner work harder. We put it outside on the deck when we can, but the meat is likely to get eaten by an animal if it's a cut that needs to be in the sous-vide overnight.

[RWD]

Lifehack: line bottom of oven with aluminum foil. You're welcome. ;)

This can damage some ovens (as my mother-in-law found out the hard way...)
http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2244596/lining-oven-with-aluminum-foil-causes-warping

[Chris22]

How much baking does it take to actually need two ovens going at the same time?

We have a double oven, and the reason we bought it is because the smaller, top oven is what we use 90%+ of the time, and it heats up in half (or less) the time as the bigger one on the bottom.  THAT is awesome.  It is also "fancy" like the one in the FB post, with a center gridle burner (which we use a gridle on, big deal), stainless steel, blah blah.  IIRC, it was $1100 and the basic comparable one without the double oven was ~$800.  $300, we'll have it at least 10 years, $30/yr.  Big deal. 

[zephyr911]

We have a double oven, and the reason we bought it is because the smaller, top oven is what we use 90%+ of the time, and it heats up in half (or less) the time as the bigger one on the bottom.

May I assume that also means it's more efficient to heat that smaller space? I hadn't even thought about that angle.

[Chris22]

We have a double oven, and the reason we bought it is because the smaller, top oven is what we use 90%+ of the time, and it heats up in half (or less) the time as the bigger one on the bottom.

May I assume that also means it's more efficient to heat that smaller space? I hadn't even thought about that angle.

I'm sure it is.  Our gas bill is tiny, so I dunno (Last month it was $17).

[zephyr911]

I'm sure it is.  Our gas bill is tiny, so I dunno (Last month it was $17).

Oops, we've accidentally stumbled into teaching & learning territory. Better move this to "Ask a Mustachian"

[10dollarsatatime]

I have a fancy ass stove... five burner, convection, all the goodies.  But I got lucky.  It has a broken handle so I got it for $120, when it retailed at $1300.  Oh.  And then $10 for the parts to fix the handle.

On topic, mostly:  It was actually youtube... the last John Oliver episode on food waste.  They show a clip of a young family having trouble making ends meet, foodwise.  Sure. That's a thing that sucks.  And then the 4 year old picks up a McDonald's drink cup.  And I just couldn't have too much sympathy anymore.  3 kids. A couple of adults.  And a trip to McDonald's.  Facepunch.  I'm trying to believe that the reporter treated them to a meal out in return for the interview, but maybe they should have been smart enough to complain about food cost while obviously consuming fast food on national television?

[Chris22]

I took my daughter to McD's on Sunday. Her mom was out and so it was daddy daughter day. We went to the park and then McD's. She had a chicken nugget happy meal for $3.XX. I had two $1.29 chicken sandwiches and a $1 drink. All in it was ~$8. As an occasional splurge it ain't the world's biggest deal.

[10dollarsatatime]

I took my daughter to McD's on Sunday. Her mom was out and so it was daddy daughter day. We went to the park and then McD's. She had a chicken nugget happy meal for $3.XX. I had two $1.29 chicken sandwiches and a $1 drink. All in it was ~$8. As an occasional splurge it ain't the world's biggest deal.

I'm not going to disagree.  I had a Wendy's kids meal just last night.  But I'm not on national television complaining that I can't afford to eat.  I don't necessarily begrudge them their kids meals.  I question their timing.

[Cressida]

On topic, mostly:  It was actually youtube... the last John Oliver episode on food waste.  They show a clip of a young family having trouble making ends meet, foodwise.  Sure. That's a thing that sucks.  And then the 4 year old picks up a McDonald's drink cup.  And I just couldn't have too much sympathy anymore.  3 kids. A couple of adults.  And a trip to McDonald's.  Facepunch.  I'm trying to believe that the reporter treated them to a meal out in return for the interview, but maybe they should have been smart enough to complain about food cost while obviously consuming fast food on national television?

I saw that, and my knee-jerk reaction was the same. On the other hand, if I had a handful of kids and literally didn't know how I was going to feed them one evening, I sure wouldn't be too proud to hit up the dollar menu. It's wrong on many levels that McDonald's can provide more calories per penny than a lot of healthier and more sustainable options, but hungry kids are hungry kids.

That said, the drink was almost certainly not necessary. But it could have been water? Maybe?

[Seppia]

With $8 you can feed 6 people with premium imported pasta (around $2 per pound) with delicious organic tomato sauce made with canned tomatoes, a spoonful of extra virgin olive oil, and garlic-carrots-celery.
And this would be a hi quality, healthy meal made with premium ingredients.

My average cost per meal is around $4 per person, but I live in Manhattan where everything is literally twice the price of almost anywhere else, and love to cook and splurge quite a bit.
In a normal cost of living area it's relatively easy even for the unskilled cook to provide a varied, healthy diet for $2 per meal, and there's no fast food chain that can do that.

[Cressida]

With $8 you can feed 6 people with premium imported pasta (around $2 per pound) with delicious organic tomato sauce made with canned tomatoes, a spoonful of extra virgin olive oil, and garlic-carrots-celery.
And this would be a hi quality, healthy meal made with premium ingredients.

My average cost per meal is around $4 per person, but I live in Manhattan where everything is literally twice the price of almost anywhere else, and love to cook and splurge quite a bit.
In a normal cost of living area it's relatively easy even for the unskilled cook to provide a varied, healthy diet for $2 per meal, and there's no fast food chain that can do that.

Oh, I don't disagree with you. I just thought that we can't know exactly what the family's situation was at that moment.

[mustachepungoeshere]

This was actually a call from a friend, but I have to share...

We're due to go to her wedding in two weeks. She called to say they can't legally get married as he didn't lodge the paperwork. (He claims forgetfulness but the clues point to him trying to get out of the wedding.)

She says they plan to have the ceremony and the reception later in the year (he won't commit to another date), but for now they're going ahead with the planned reception 'as a party'.

I asked if we're still expected to bring a 'gift' (they asked for cash) to this party.

She said: "Yes, because we still need to pay the restaurant."

We now don't want to attend the reception/party or the actual wedding (if it eventuates) because we are horrified by the groom's behaviour and are now basically opposed to the marriage.

I'm shocked that they are still expecting cash gifts for the non-wedding reception, and have admitted that said cash gifts will be used to pay for extravagant reception (I don't remember ordering a seafood buffet for dinner - I don't eat seafood!). What if the wedding does eventuate? Are we up for another gift?

This has followed on the heels of the groom's big 30th birthday party, their engagement party, her $500 hens night (I declined), and her kitchen tea with a wishing well for a Thermomix (I declined).

What is the etiquette here?

Good lord, what a mess! I really don't know what you should do. It seems absurd that you should have to provide a gift for what is essentially a party. It's easy for me to suggest a snarky option like bringing an actual gift like a book on relationships or a budgeting book or something else practical, but presumably you are friends with this person because you like her. I definitely would be conveniently busy the night of the re-scheduled wedding. I can't imagine you would be the only one. If you want to maintain this friendship, perhaps give them the amount of cash that you would spend on a dinner of that caliber. And then wash your hands of the drama for the future.

We like her. We have (till now) tolerated him, and now we're all out of tolerance.

I do love the book idea...

[Seppia]

@Cressida absolutely. But there was a similar situation also in the movie Fast Food Nation (or was it Food Inc? Can't remember since food inc is the movie that's based on the book fast food nation and fast food nation is a movie that has nothing to do with the book), and as much as I felt sorry for the family having difficulties properly feeding their kids (they were all significantly overweight), I could not feel as much empathy when the narrator said something like "and because of the prices of groceries, they almost always have to resort to buying fast food because it's cheap" and the parents nodding sadly.
I was like wtf?

[cerebus]

@Cressida absolutely. But there was a similar situation also in the movie Fast Food Nation (or was it Food Inc? Can't remember since food inc is the movie that's based on the book fast food nation and fast food nation is a movie that has nothing to do with the book), and as much as I felt sorry for the family having difficulties properly feeding their kids (they were all significantly overweight), I could not feel as much empathy when the narrator said something like "and because of the prices of groceries, they almost always have to resort to buying fast food because it's cheap" and the parents nodding sadly.
I was like wtf?

Yeah... for us to make a full meal for the family is at least half the cost of buying fast food for the family, and more nutritious. I think a lot of Americans labour under an illusion that fast food works out cheaper than home cooked. But then I don't think the same people spend a lot of time with a calculator.

[MgoSam]

@Cressida absolutely. But there was a similar situation also in the movie Fast Food Nation (or was it Food Inc? Can't remember since food inc is the movie that's based on the book fast food nation and fast food nation is a movie that has nothing to do with the book), and as much as I felt sorry for the family having difficulties properly feeding their kids (they were all significantly overweight), I could not feel as much empathy when the narrator said something like "and because of the prices of groceries, they almost always have to resort to buying fast food because it's cheap" and the parents nodding sadly.
I was like wtf?

Yeah... for us to make a full meal for the family is at least half the cost of buying fast food for the family, and more nutritious. I think a lot of Americans labour under an illusion that fast food works out cheaper than home cooked. But then I don't think the same people spend a lot of time with a calculator.

I agree, but I can also imagine for a family that is constantly on the go, they may not feel like they have the time to make a home cooked meal. That said, I am wondering just why families are in the position where they have 3 kids without the ability to adequately raise and feed them. This is more disheartening to me.

[zephyr911]

@Cressida absolutely. But there was a similar situation also in the movie Fast Food Nation (or was it Food Inc? Can't remember since food inc is the movie that's based on the book fast food nation and fast food nation is a movie that has nothing to do with the book), and as much as I felt sorry for the family having difficulties properly feeding their kids (they were all significantly overweight), I could not feel as much empathy when the narrator said something like "and because of the prices of groceries, they almost always have to resort to buying fast food because it's cheap" and the parents nodding sadly.
I was like wtf?

How does nobody ever throw up the bullshit flag when such dumb stuff is said? I can feed myself and DW with leftover lunch portions for $2 on spaghetti and meat sauce. Even at Manhattan prices, maybe $5 for a family?

[cerebus]

@Cressida absolutely. But there was a similar situation also in the movie Fast Food Nation (or was it Food Inc? Can't remember since food inc is the movie that's based on the book fast food nation and fast food nation is a movie that has nothing to do with the book), and as much as I felt sorry for the family having difficulties properly feeding their kids (they were all significantly overweight), I could not feel as much empathy when the narrator said something like "and because of the prices of groceries, they almost always have to resort to buying fast food because it's cheap" and the parents nodding sadly.
I was like wtf?

Yeah... for us to make a full meal for the family is at least half the cost of buying fast food for the family, and more nutritious. I think a lot of Americans labour under an illusion that fast food works out cheaper than home cooked. But then I don't think the same people spend a lot of time with a calculator.

I agree, but I can also imagine for a family that is constantly on the go, they may not feel like they have the time to make a home cooked meal. That said, I am wondering just why families are in the position where they have 3 kids without the ability to adequately raise and feed them. This is more disheartening to me.

No, I'm sorry, that's just an excuse they'd use. I do 2 jobs and raise 3 kids and we cook nearly every meal from scratch.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Seppia]

Plus, there's a bunch of cheap food items that take a very short time to cook. For example, cooking delicious pasta takes no more than 20 minutes (sauce from scratch included).
Sorry if I'm a bit pasta obsessed but I am Italian :)

[MgoSam]

@Cressida absolutely. But there was a similar situation also in the movie Fast Food Nation (or was it Food Inc? Can't remember since food inc is the movie that's based on the book fast food nation and fast food nation is a movie that has nothing to do with the book), and as much as I felt sorry for the family having difficulties properly feeding their kids (they were all significantly overweight), I could not feel as much empathy when the narrator said something like "and because of the prices of groceries, they almost always have to resort to buying fast food because it's cheap" and the parents nodding sadly.
I was like wtf?

Yeah... for us to make a full meal for the family is at least half the cost of buying fast food for the family, and more nutritious. I think a lot of Americans labour under an illusion that fast food works out cheaper than home cooked. But then I don't think the same people spend a lot of time with a calculator.

I agree, but I can also imagine for a family that is constantly on the go, they may not feel like they have the time to make a home cooked meal. That said, I am wondering just why families are in the position where they have 3 kids without the ability to adequately raise and feed them. This is more disheartening to me.

No, I'm sorry, that's just an excuse they'd use. I do 2 jobs and raise 3 kids and we cook nearly every meal from scratch.

Yeah I understand.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

so is kebabs.
chicken, cheap chopped beef, onion, pepper, zucchinis, roll in olive oil, then steak rub, then grill. turn 1/2 way thru cooking, baste with whatever. I used BBQ, soy sauce, red wine, pickle juice, pepper, and balsamic glaze.

I think dinner was $5 for 2 people. Maybe a bit more if you count the onions and baste ingredients,which we already had.

[Sibley]

Seen on FB:   For the first time in my life, I am going to have a range/oven with features far beyond just the very basic. It's a dual oven range with convection in the bottom oven, five burners on top with space for a griddle in the center, and the ability to set it to do things like delay the beginning of the cooking time, then automatically switch to warming once the food is done cooking/baking. And it's self-cleaning. This cook is going to be in heaven! We just ordered it today and got a fantastic deal. I'm excited about using the appliance and admiring how beautiful it looks in my kitchen, and my husband is excited about eating the food that results from owning it.


This is from a young mother. 2 under 2, husband is SAHD, she's a librarian. How much can she make? They bought the oven because they're moving. At least they did DIY for some of the house stuff. Personally, I don't want 2 ovens, it just means I have to clean 2 of them, plus actually use 2!

They're "moving" -- so this means they are staging the house to sell, right? If potential buyers are expecting to see high-end appliances in that real estate market, this might have been a smart decision that has a payoff later.

Oh no, this is going into the new house. And from what I know, DH does the majority of the cooking, and while he's a pretty good cook, it's not gourmet.

[I'm a red panda]

Plus, there's a bunch of cheap food items that take a very short time to cook. For example, cooking delicious pasta takes no more than 20 minutes (sauce from scratch included).
Sorry if I'm a bit pasta obsessed but I am Italian :)

You're not making a tomato sauce are you?  It takes WAY more than 20 minutes to just reduce whole tomatoes to begin a sauce. 

My sauces take all day...

[MgoSam]

Plus, there's a bunch of cheap food items that take a very short time to cook. For example, cooking delicious pasta takes no more than 20 minutes (sauce from scratch included).
Sorry if I'm a bit pasta obsessed but I am Italian :)

You're not making a tomato sauce are you?  It takes WAY more than 20 minutes to just reduce whole tomatoes to begin a sauce. 

My sauces take all day...

I can whip up a quick tomato sauce in 20 minutes while the noodles are cooking. It isn't nearly as good as putting crushed tomatoes and other things in a slow cooker, but it will do in a pinch.

If cooking for a family, buying a jar of sauce and making spaghetti is even faster and cheaper than eating out at McDonalds.

[Seppia]

Plus, there's a bunch of cheap food items that take a very short time to cook. For example, cooking delicious pasta takes no more than 20 minutes (sauce from scratch included).
Sorry if I'm a bit pasta obsessed but I am Italian :)

You're not making a tomato sauce are you?  It takes WAY more than 20 minutes to just reduce whole tomatoes to begin a sauce. 

My sauces take all day...

Depends on the sauce.
A true Bolognese needs two days, a simple Tomato sauce can be easily done in less than 20 mins.
Pour EVO
Add couple garlic cloves
Low heat till garlic starts to get a bit of golden color.
While garlic is cooking, take out the canned tomatoes (or the fresh ones depending on the season) and just mix them, reducing them to a very liquid paste.
Pour on the saucepan and bring the heat to high.
You want to keep it a little liquid so you can sautée in the pan with the drained pasta (just have to take out the pasta very al dente).

[dragoncar]

Also, my better half is Chinese and small gas burners do not generate enough heat to cook wok food properly. I used to have an apartment designed for the Asian market and it had a wok burner. I've mostly stopped doing wok food because you just don't get the same flavor on a small stove.

That said, I cook more than anyone I know. It's really not something your average home chef needs.

I remember reading Kenny Shopsin's book (he runs Shopsin's down on Essex street) and he mentioned that he drilled out the holes on one of his burners to get a higher output than the highest setting would allow. This may be an incredibly dangerous idea but I'm mentioning it as I know you own and would be able to research further to judge the safety if you were interested.

They sell an adapter to accomplish this too : http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/the-wok-mon-converts-your-home-burner-into-a-wok-range-solution.html

I wouldn't mind having a high output burner, but it would have to be outside.  I don't really want my house to smell like a Chinese restaurant kitchen (covered in aerosolized oils) similar to the reason I don't cook Indian food myself and opt to restaurant

[sheepstache]

@Cressida absolutely. But there was a similar situation also in the movie Fast Food Nation (or was it Food Inc? Can't remember since food inc is the movie that's based on the book fast food nation and fast food nation is a movie that has nothing to do with the book), and as much as I felt sorry for the family having difficulties properly feeding their kids (they were all significantly overweight), I could not feel as much empathy when the narrator said something like "and because of the prices of groceries, they almost always have to resort to buying fast food because it's cheap" and the parents nodding sadly.
I was like wtf?

How does nobody ever throw up the bullshit flag when such dumb stuff is said? I can feed myself and DW with leftover lunch portions for $2 on spaghetti and meat sauce. Even at Manhattan prices, maybe $5 for a family?

But, but, the the KFC ten dollar challenge told me fast food is cheaper than home-cooked.

[Seppia]

My bolognese recipe is Marcella Hazan's and it takes a full day. I'm really curious what yours is. I'd happily double my cook time for better results.

Good to know there's interest.
Actually one of the reasons why I joined this forum was to somehow try to give back a bit of what I got for free from MMM blog.

I love cooking (I started when I was 12), I have worked as a cook in a trattoria in my hometown in Italy while a student (14 to 23 years of age), and I now work in the Foodservice industry here in the US, so I was thinking about starting a recipe thread.

Is there one already maybe?
If not, what would be the most appropriate sub-forum to start it?

So that I stop the off topic :)

Thanks in advance

[nobodyspecial]

Start a thread in the http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/do-it-yourself-forum!/
I just started making my own bread without a bread maker - never realized how easy it was to make baguettes

[dragoncar]

The fuck is a pasta fork?

[grantmeaname]

A fork made out of pasta obvs

[cerebus]

My bolognese recipe is Marcella Hazan's and it takes a full day. I'm really curious what yours is. I'd happily double my cook time for better results.

Try this one:
http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/12/the-best-slow-cooked-bolognese-sauce-recipe.html

Slow cooking in an oven in a cast iron pot will produce the best flavour. It is not cheap on ingredients though.

[Seppia]

I stopped reading when I got to "gelatin" and "fish sauce".