Overheard on Facebook

[JAYSLOL]

A classmate from high school wrote on Facebook today

"Just keep winning free play on our lotto tickets (frowny face), I'd be happy with hundred thou and be out of debt.  Some day I'll win big (smiley face)"

Doubt it.  (Face palm face)

Update time.  Same person just posted a photo of a 65" 4K LED Smart TV with the caption "present for husband".  Dare I ask if she's out of debt now?

[stylesjl]

We keep a kitchen thermometer around for checking the water temp for our coffee (if you're doing it the French press or cowboy method.) Ideal water temp is between 198-202 degrees. The machines can be so variable.

Thanks for the tip! I just give my boiling water 30 or 40 seconds to cool down but now I'll try measuring and see what I'm dealing with.

A few Christmases ago, I got a multi-temperature kettle from my parents. It does 70, 80, 90 and 100 and is totally awesome.

I'll never understand why people in Europe drink their coffee and tea so cold!

 Europe has the metric system, not cold coffee.

That's funny, I don't recall hearing about that Liberian that walked on the moon....

I'll be dead in my grave before I recognize Liberiya as a country

Don't you mean Lieberia?

[jinga nation]

I remember a story about a depression era blue collar fellow on a tight budget. He would brew a pot of coffee (percolator pot on the stove) on Mon morn and drink some of it. The next day he would add a spoonful of new grounds to yesterday's grounds and add some water. Repeat all week.

I do something similar.  At the end of the week, I bake the grounds into a cake.  Good fiber.

So that's how coffee cake is made? America's Test Kitchen, Cook's Country, and Alton Brown are doing it all wrong.

[Just Joe]

I remember a story about a depression era blue collar fellow on a tight budget. He would brew a pot of coffee (percolator pot on the stove) on Mon morn and drink some of it. The next day he would add a spoonful of new grounds to yesterday's grounds and add some water. Repeat all week.

I do something similar.  At the end of the week, I bake the grounds into a cake.  Good fiber.

Okay - my sarcasm detector is broken this week. You really do this?

[dragoncar]

I remember a story about a depression era blue collar fellow on a tight budget. He would brew a pot of coffee (percolator pot on the stove) on Mon morn and drink some of it. The next day he would add a spoonful of new grounds to yesterday's grounds and add some water. Repeat all week.

I do something similar.  At the end of the week, I bake the grounds into a cake.  Good fiber.

Okay - my sarcasm detector is broken this week. You really do this?

Anyone on this board knows I'm probably the least sarcastic member.  Of course I do this.  Remember, once you eat the coffee cake, you can use the next day's fermentation result as a rich organic fertilizer.

[Inaya]

Adding "fermentation result" to my slang lexicon.

[JordanOfGilead]

I've been noticing more than one person on the Facebook buy and sell group for my town posting REALLY expensive remote control cars for sale.  Like $2000+.  Used.  I thought one was a joke, because it looked just like any other rc toy truck, and the guy wanted $2000 for it and said he "invested" (wrong word) $3000+, but he was dead serious.  I realize that the sky's the limit as far as pouring money into any hobby, but for me I'd have to have the most insane surplus of money before I felt like buying toys like that... and I got the sense this person didn't.

Hell, I've spent less on real cars as hobby projects.

[FIRE me]

 Europe has the metric system, not cold coffee.

And one that mixed Metric and Imperial and lost a $193 Million Mars probe.

[AlanStache]

 Europe has the metric system, not cold coffee.

And one that mixed Metric and Imperial and lost a $193 Million Mars probe.

Doing orbital dynamics with Imperial just sucks.  In most other applications I have seen the difference comes down to what you are comfortable working with.

But in with orbits you get numbers like 54.53x10^8 ft/(slug*hogshead)  and you are like what the heck is that?  Does that magnitude even make sense?

Where with metric in orbits you get numbers like 8.42 x10^3 meter and you can be like ok that sounds right. 

Coincidentally ft/(slug*hogshead) is also the units for the linear density of a threads foam.

[Well Respected Man]

I remember a story about a depression era blue collar fellow on a tight budget. He would brew a pot of coffee (percolator pot on the stove) on Mon morn and drink some of it. The next day he would add a spoonful of new grounds to yesterday's grounds and add some water. Repeat all week.

I do something similar.  At the end of the week, I bake the grounds into a cake.  Good fiber.

Okay - my sarcasm detector is broken this week. You really do this?

Anyone on this board knows I'm probably the least sarcastic member.  Of course I do this.  Remember, once you eat the coffee cake, you can use the next day's fermentation result as a rich organic fertilizer.

He's not lying -- coffee can be improved through digestive fermentation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

[ysette9]

Coincidentally ft/(slug*hogshead) is also the units for the linear density of a threads foam.

I remember in undergrad how my class was on the verge of a populist revolt when our professor had us do a thermodynamics homework assignment in imperial units. Good lord, what a mass of unnecessary confusion.

It feels like aerospace is the only holdout in engineering where we haven't fully converted to metric. It drives me nuts, especially when they mix systems, since you just can't get around the fact that fundamental science is only done in metric.

[Goldielocks]

Coincidentally ft/(slug*hogshead) is also the units for the linear density of a threads foam.

I remember in undergrad how my class was on the verge of a populist revolt when our professor had us do a thermodynamics homework assignment in imperial units. Good lord, what a mass of unnecessary confusion.

It feels like aerospace is the only holdout in engineering where we haven't fully converted to metric. It drives me nuts, especially when they mix systems, since you just can't get around the fact that fundamental science is only done in metric.

I had to do the same in my engineering classes.  You know, because we have to work with *!* Americans.
Up through third year, about 20% of all our problems were in imperial, it seemed, just to get used to the units, and this was especially true for any work or heat type of units and to memorize the constants.

[scottish]

hah, I bet the US still uses British Thermal Units instead of kiloWatts.

[zolotiyeruki]

hah, I bet the US still uses British Thermal Units instead of kiloWatts.

When it comes to specifying a furnace, yes. We also use the Ton as a unit for air conditioning.

[Threshkin]

hah, I bet the US still uses British Thermal Units instead of kiloWatts.

When it comes to specifying a furnace, yes. We also use the Ton as a unit for air conditioning.

We also use it as a unit for excrement.

[infogoon]

hah, I bet the US still uses British Thermal Units instead of kiloWatts.

When it comes to specifying a furnace, yes. We also use the Ton as a unit for air conditioning.

I think we make up for that by selling soda by the liter.

[JordanOfGilead]

I recently started following the Forbes page on facebook and am honestly surprised at the amount of consumerism they push.
"10 New Cars to Avoid"
"8 New Cars you Must Have"
"Why you should spend all of your money on experiences instead of things."

So I've been trolling the comments with occasional mmm links.

[dragoncar]

I recently started following the Forbes page on facebook and am honestly surprised at the amount of consumerism they push.
"10 New Cars to Avoid"
"8 New Cars you Must Have"
"Why you should spend all of your money on experiences instead of things."

So I've been trolling the comments with occasional mmm links.

Honestly who buys 8 new cars?  What are they poor?

[zolotiyeruki]

I recently started following the Forbes page on facebook and am honestly surprised at the amount of consumerism they push.
"10 New Cars to Avoid"
"8 New Cars you Must Have"
"Why you should spend all of your money on experiences instead of things."

So I've been trolling the comments with occasional mmm links.

Honestly who buys 8 new cars?  What are they poor?

If they aren't yet, the *will* be after buying 8 new cars! :P

[FIT_Goat]

Dammit!  I need to start adding people, that I don't have common interests with, on Facebook.  I have nothing to share here.  In fact, the only current financial post on my feed is someone talking about how they've made the last payment on their car and how they're going to keep this car as long as possible.  I have people doing home gardening, reusing stuff around the house, and doing their own repairs and upkeep at home.

[Threshkin]

One of my HS classmates is considering getting Consumer Cellular phone service and asked for feedback.  A couple of people responded positively about the coverage and how if only cost around $50 per month.  :O  This gave me a chance to pitch my Pure Talk wireless service at $10 per month.

[rencelas]

One of my HS classmates is considering getting Consumer Cellular phone service and asked for feedback.  A couple of people responded positively about the coverage and how if only cost around $50 per month.  :O  This gave me a chance to pitch my Pure Talk wireless service at $10 per month.

Just looked briefly at their site. No data included in plan? Is there a better plan I'm missing? What do they charge per additional line? Which network do they use?

My wife and parents share a CC plan - it's $53 / month for 3 people, unlimited text, 250 minutes, 1.5gb of data. Seems pretty reasonable for 3 people but maybe I'm missing something with PureTalk that would be a good savings.

[shadowmoss]

Consumer Cellular gets expensive for data if you use much.  However, for the actual phone part it is a good deal, $10/line and $15 for 250 minutes, up to $30 for unlimited minutes.  I have an account that I share with my Mom.  Data is used as backup, not my primary use.  I'm glad I fact checked for this comment as they seem to have changed the pricing ladders a bit.  For the good, I think.

[Paul der Krake]

Yeah Consumer Cellular is pretty good for multiple lines. Now if only they added international roaming.

[firelight]

My Facebook feed is usually pretty boring and doesn't have much material for this thread. But today I have a (few) golden nugget(s).

An acquaintance I know has been cribbing on FB for the past three years that they've fallen into hard times with three kids. And promptly went and had another because 'kids are God's gifts'.

Then she tried her hand at photography and tried creating mini sessions for moms and babies and wanted every mom in her friends circle to buy it. Asking them to buy it if interested is fine, pressuring them to buy is not. Still most of us bought it because she is a decent photographer and we wanted to support her home based venture.

Then she took a year plus to deliver the pictures because she was always busy with kids and the kids spoil her life, yada yada yada. She even told a few moms that she can't give their pictures because kids destroyed the digital files. She also didn't reimburse them since the money is gone and she is broke.

Oh I forgot to mention, she also quit her job as soon as first kid was born because 'sending kids to daycare is a sure way to hell' (her words). She then cribs her kids don't give her any alone time.

Now, she has been cribbing that they have to move to a different house. The reason they are moving: they sold their current house for a million plus dollars in cash.

To add, she also wants someone to come help her with packing for free. When a friend of mine went to help since she is a mom too and knows how hard it is to pack with kids around, she said the house was a zoo and the acquaintance wanted my friend to take care of kids and pack as well... What was the acquaintance doing? Well, resting of course. You can't expect a mom of four to pack, can ya?

[Just Joe]

I thought you were talking about someone barely getting by in a trailer or tiny ranch house 20 miles out into the country.

Million dollar house? How about she spend some of that cash and hire movers and a babysitter? If it costs $3000 to move then oh well, you have $3000 less to put down on the new mansion... The expectations some people have is ridiculous!

[Threshkin]

One of my HS classmates is considering getting Consumer Cellular phone service and asked for feedback.  A couple of people responded positively about the coverage and how if only cost around $50 per month.  :O  This gave me a chance to pitch my Pure Talk wireless service at $10 per month.

Just looked briefly at their site. No data included in plan? Is there a better plan I'm missing? What do they charge per additional line? Which network do they use?

My wife and parents share a CC plan - it's $53 / month for 3 people, unlimited text, 250 minutes, 1.5gb of data. Seems pretty reasonable for 3 people but maybe I'm missing something with PureTalk that would be a good savings.

• The basic plan that I use is effectively no data (50M/Month)  I just turned off data on my phone and tough it out.  I can pick up free wifi pretty easily though.
• Plans with more minutes, data, and or texts are available but the basic plan met my needs.  As I recall switching plans is free so you can move up or down as needed easily.
• I think they use the AT&T network.  I had an unlocked AT&T phone when I started using the service and am using an unlocked T-Mobile phone with no issues
• Getting the service was easy.  The hardest part for me was getting my work AT&T phone unlocked after I FIREd.  Once that was done is was dirt simple.  Getting the T-Mobile phone unlocked was very easy.
• I do not know if they give multi-line discounts but 3 lines for $30/Month sounds pretty good to me.
• My plan is 250 minutes per month but I get (100 to 150) bonus minutes per month for 6(?) months due to some promotion they had when I signed up, these bonus minutes roll over and do not expire.  My usage is well under the cap so I am banking the bonus.
• Texts (in or out) count as 1/3 minute each.  I rarely use that service.  For texting I mainly use WeChat over wifi which is free.

Full disclosure: My wife has an unlimited plan through T-Mobile for $50/Month which makes my mini plan more workable.  We use her phone when we make long calls.  She uses her phone extensively for work and needs the data in particular.  The phone is a deductible business expense so it is partially paid for through reduced taxes.

[chubbybunny]

This is my mistake for actually commenting on Facebook.  We live in a county that is AT LEAST 40 miles from the I85 collapse (we are west of Atlanta).  Someone posted on our county board to be careful with traffic Monday morning, as Atlanta traffic is predicted to be somewhere between Walking Dead and Snowmageddon.

I stupidly commented that if you had to drive past I85 to get to work, your commute is too long and maybe you should think about moving. I got a TON of replies.  Most of them are the houses are cheap here (they are), and an hour in the car isn't so bad.  I am fairly sure it takes about 90 minutes to drive from where I live to get to downtown Atlanta, and that's on a regular day.  I haven't commented back, but I really want to say YOU ARE THE REASON THE TRAFFIC IS SO BAD HERE!!!

Fortunately for me, I don't have a commute.  Probably best if I don't try to participate in this conversation again.  Not a single person agreed with me.  Apparently it is completely normal (and expected) where I live to spend 15 hours a week in your car, driving back and forth to work. 

[marielle]

I stupidly commented that if you had to drive past I85 to get to work, your commute is too long and maybe you should think about moving. I got a TON of replies.  Most of them are the houses are cheap here (they are), and an hour in the car isn't so bad.  I am fairly sure it takes about 90 minutes to drive from where I live to get to downtown Atlanta, and that's on a regular day.  I haven't commented back, but I really want to say YOU ARE THE REASON THE TRAFFIC IS SO BAD HERE!!!

Wow! I currently commute about 35 minutes (maybe longer during holidays and such), and it is absolutely soul-sucking! I wish I discovered MMM before choosing where I live. I have been so close to falling asleep in the car that it's downright dangerous. Now I force myself to get 9 hours of sleep so I don't get drowsy when driving. I can't even fathom an hour each way.

Thankfully I'm moving in a couple months.

You should share the True Cost of Commuting article:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-commuting/

[cheapass]

Apparently it is completely normal (and expected) where I live to spend 15 hours a week in your car, driving back and forth to work.

What else ya got to do? Gotta pass the time somehow! Age 65 is far away.

[AlanStache]

You are not suck in traffic, you are traffic.

[PetiteMouche]

A FB acquaintance just posted about how one of her children came close to death recently because she (the mother) wanted to save money by not spending $150 on a medical procedure her child needed.

It might sound like just misguided or excessive frugality on her part. However, I know from her other posts that she and her family eat out frequently and waste tons of money on crazy and expensive hobbies.

After this scary incident, she was weeping and wailing about the $150. I knew it wouldn't go down well, so said nothing, but I thought, "If you made your meals at home for a week or two or stopped buying ridiculous amounts of unnecessary doodads, you'd have the money in no time."

[englyn]

Ok, it's an advert, but one of my friends did Like it:

"Join the Waggly Club and get your monthly dog subscription box delivered straight to the door. Full of dog treats and toys for your dog"

[sw1tch]

A FB acquaintance just posted about how one of her children came close to death recently because she (the mother) wanted to save money by not spending $150 on a medical procedure her child needed.

It might sound like just misguided or excessive frugality on her part. However, I know from her other posts that she and her family eat out frequently and waste tons of money on crazy and expensive hobbies.

After this scary incident, she was weeping and wailing about the $150. I knew it wouldn't go down well, so said nothing, but I thought, "If you made your meals at home for a week or two or stopped buying ridiculous amounts of unnecessary doodads, you'd have the money in no time."

Sounds like my SIL.  One month after she had no emergency funds and had to evacuate a rental due to mold being found, she's whining about how she can't buy a house, her childhood was so hard (from my wife's perspective it DID suck) and she doesn't want her kid to have a "hard" life (meaning: not getting all of the wonderful material goods she didn't get); the basic woe is me spiel.  She whines about it on instagram (and presumably Facebook - my wife doesn't know since she deleted her account years ago) until some "friends" chip in to get her a gift basket of goodies for her child.  The next month she is staying at a Disneyworld resort.

These so-called "cries for help" get old fast, also the constant acceptance and benefitting off of EOC while simultaneously bitching about those that provided the EOC or simply accepting gifts from others in perpetuity while always, ALWAYS, finding money to go on vacations and spend frivolously.

P.s. This is from someone who is a nurse that made a good salary at the time (on par with what I made) in a fairly decent COL area (Atlanta suburbs).

[Just Joe]

Anymore when I read a "woe is me" financial soap opera I just expect Disney to be in the story somewhere. ;)

As if there is no other destination for people to idolize. Me? I like a shady porch with something cold (or hot depending on the season) in my hand. Fortunately that is just ten feet away. Seriously, we like a vacation but we're not going broke to vacation.

[zephyr911]

Anymore when I read a "woe is me" financial soap opera I just expect Disney to be in the story somewhere. ;)

As if there is no other destination for people to idolize. Me? I like a shady porch with something cold (or hot depending on the season) in my hand. Fortunately that is just ten feet away. Seriously, we like a vacation but we're not going broke to vacation.

Not FB, but related (tangent? LOL). DW's former boss isn't in financial trouble, as far as I know, but her company is (probably because she "needs" to pay herself so much). Last fall/winter she regretfully informed everyone that despite their hard work it had been a hard year for the company and nobody could get raises... then not only took her underemployed children and their children to Disney World for a week, but came back and wanted to tell everyone all about it in the next staff meeting. It's a bit tone-deaf, to say the least, and rumor is she's made the same hardship claim in the past while collecting huge bonuses.
7-series BMW, golf-course home (completely torn apart and rebuilt @ six-figure cost), etc... late 60s, still can't retire and instead of cutting costs and reinvesting in better talent, has now hired a high-priced biz-dev consultant to pump the co. for a better sale price. We'll probably never see the money she has, but we'll be retired first at this rate... xD

[Just Joe]

I worked for one of those tone-deaf people back in college. It was good motivation to graduate.

Watching people demonstrate tone-deafness (love the term) is amazing to witness...

[SwordGuy]

I remember a story about a depression era blue collar fellow on a tight budget. He would brew a pot of coffee (percolator pot on the stove) on Mon morn and drink some of it. The next day he would add a spoonful of new grounds to yesterday's grounds and add some water. Repeat all week.

I read about a private who did that for his US Army battalion on an exercise down in Panama.

(Except they poured hot water into a canvas bag that had the coffee grounds in it.)

The whole battalion got seriously ill...

[VeggieTable]

This is my mistake for actually commenting on Facebook.  We live in a county that is AT LEAST 40 miles from the I85 collapse (we are west of Atlanta).  Someone posted on our county board to be careful with traffic Monday morning, as Atlanta traffic is predicted to be somewhere between Walking Dead and Snowmageddon.

I stupidly commented that if you had to drive past I85 to get to work, your commute is too long and maybe you should think about moving. I got a TON of replies.  Most of them are the houses are cheap here (they are), and an hour in the car isn't so bad.  I am fairly sure it takes about 90 minutes to drive from where I live to get to downtown Atlanta, and that's on a regular day.  I haven't commented back, but I really want to say YOU ARE THE REASON THE TRAFFIC IS SO BAD HERE!!!

Fortunately for me, I don't have a commute.  Probably best if I don't try to participate in this conversation again.  Not a single person agreed with me.  Apparently it is completely normal (and expected) where I live to spend 15 hours a week in your car, driving back and forth to work.

We live in a suburb north of the gaping hole, and even before that, it would've taken most people 1+ hrs to get to work.There are people who live 40, 50, even 60 miles north of the city who commute in. I really do not understand it. Is having a McMansion you never get to spend time in really worth it?

[Paul der Krake]

Atlanta is a disaster and an insult to everything MMM stands for. When WW3 comes, I hope it goes first.

[mustachepungoeshere]

Ok, it's an advert, but one of my friends did Like it:

"Join the Waggly Club and get your monthly dog subscription box delivered straight to the door. Full of dog treats and toys for your dog"

These are less common here in Australia, so I suggested my friend (who has a budding pet-related business) take it on.

As a consumer, she was horrified. As a small business owner, she was very interested!

[I'm a red panda]

Ok, it's an advert, but one of my friends did Like it:

"Join the Waggly Club and get your monthly dog subscription box delivered straight to the door. Full of dog treats and toys for your dog"

Although I still make him t shirt toys to rip apart, we LOVE BarkBox.  It's a way better value than buying toys for the dog individually, even discounting the excellent quality treats. And keeping him entertained has saved our woodwork and furniture. 

[marielle]

There are cat subscription boxes too. Half of it is stuff for your cat, the other half is cat related jewelry and such.

I think cats know when you buy something for them specifically, because they ignore it completely. My cat only plays with stuff like packaging materials, a plastic fork, or a paper bag.

[merula]

Atlanta is a disaster and an insult to everything MMM stands for. When WW3 comes, I hope it goes first.

Thank you for reminding me of this old Onion article: http://www.theonion.com/article/civil-war-enthusiasts-burn-atlanta-to-ground-1109

[Just Joe]

There are cat subscription boxes too. Half of it is stuff for your cat, the other half is cat related jewelry and such.

I think cats know when you buy something for them specifically, because they ignore it completely. My cat only plays with stuff like packaging materials, a plastic fork, or a paper bag.

Kind of like our kids when they were younger... The toy is good but the box - now that has possibilities!!!

[VeggieTable]

Atlanta is a disaster and an insult to everything MMM stands for. When WW3 comes, I hope it goes first.

Yup, pretty accurate. We live in a nice, fairly walkable suburb and I ride my bike as much as possible. But since it's metro Atlanta and I don't want to die, my options are fairly limited. The tide seems to be turning towards making towns more walking/biking friendly, but it's definitely for show and not for actual functionality.

[economista]

Seriously, we like a vacation but we're not going broke to vacation.

So true.  It's amazing how many people don't understand this concept.  When my little sister was 18 she went with her boyfriend and his family on vacation in Florida.  They drove from Ohio, spent a week in Florida, and then a few hours into their drive back home their car broke down.  My mom called me panicking because apparently every single person on that trip had spent every dime they had to their name while on vacation and no one had any money to fix the car or get back home.  They were all calling everyone they knew to try and get enough money sent to them so they could fix the car and get home.  I couldn't believe they were even in that situation.  Craziness!

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Seriously, we like a vacation but we're not going broke to vacation.

So true.  It's amazing how many people don't understand this concept.  When my little sister was 18 she went with her boyfriend and his family on vacation in Florida.  They drove from Ohio, spent a week in Florida, and then a few hours into their drive back home their car broke down.  My mom called me panicking because apparently every single person on that trip had spent every dime they had to their name while on vacation and no one had any money to fix the car or get back home.  They were all calling everyone they knew to try and get enough money sent to them so they could fix the car and get home.  I couldn't believe they were even in that situation.  Craziness!

It's not that rare unfortunately. One of the habits I'm trying to train out of my daughter is spending every available cent and then withdrawing money from savings while she's out gallivanting, just to keep the party going a little bit longer. I foresee, for her, the exact kind of crisis you described one day because she just can't keep her hands off the emergency savings.

I think that for some people hedonic adaptation kicks in almost immediately, so that the treat they bought (or had given to them) for a special occasion becomes something they "need" just to feel normal. It does appear to run in families and the problem has been so intractable with my daughter that I'm starting to wonder whether there's a biochemical component. I'm looking at other things that appear to correlate.

For my data set, if you wouldn't mind: in the family that spent itself broke while on vacation, did you notice a great deal of addiction also?

[infogoon]

It's not that rare unfortunately. One of the habits I'm trying to train out of my daughter is spending every available cent and then withdrawing money from savings while she's out gallivanting, just to keep the party going a little bit longer. I foresee, for her, the exact kind of crisis you described one day because she just can't keep her hands off the emergency savings.

I think that for some people hedonic adaptation kicks in almost immediately, so that the treat they bought (or had given to them) for a special occasion becomes something they "need" just to feel normal. It does appear to run in families and the problem has been so intractable with my daughter that I'm starting to wonder whether there's a biochemical component. I'm looking at other things that appear to correlate.

I agree that there seems to be a "nature" component (as opposed to "nurture") in how people handle delayed gratification and the hedonic treadmill. My brother and I grew up in the same house, watching and learning from thrifty working-class parents. By the time he was ten years old and collecting an allowance, my mother made him write down everything he spent money on because it seemed to evaporate out of his pockets as soon as he left the house. He's still like that. I went the other way - I'm pretty sure that my First Communion money is still in my bank account.

[Sibley]

For my data set, if you wouldn't mind: in the family that spent itself broke while on vacation, did you notice a great deal of addiction also?

I can add to your dataset. Similar broke vacation situation, 3 people. #1 is an alcoholic & chain smokes, #2 has a house with WAY too much stuff and an apparent inability to get rid of it (but clean), and #3 smokes pot and I strongly suspect something else that isn't a candidate for legalization.

#1 and 3 are 1st cousins, 2 is a long time friend.From what I've heard 1 & 3 have quite a shit show of a family, with drugs, alcohol, and various petty theft. #2's immediate family has hoarding issues, extended seems normal. All three have a general "the world owes me because I'm specialllllllllllll" attitude and are generally rude and unlikable.