Overheard on Facebook

[Elderwood17]

My brother in law recently asked his parents to cosign for a $10K personal loan. They told him that if the bank thought he was such a risk that he needed a cosigner, they weren't willing to jump on that risk either.

That s a pretty solid line of logic, and a line we should all have as a handy retort at the ready.

[RWD]

Saw this today:
"Money can't buy happiness but it can buy me a boat and it can buy me a truck to pull it"

[RunHappy]

Saw this today:
"Money can't buy happiness but it can buy me a boat and it can buy me a truck to pull it"

My dad says something similar (which I tend to agree) "Money doesn't buy happiness, but happiness doesn't put food on the table".

[infogoon]

Saw a typical, meandering "politicians are all crooks" message thread with this gem in it: the poster thinks that all of the current elected officials should be thrown out of office, and nobody with more than $20k in the bank should be allowed to run to replace them. This would return governance to "real Americans".

So, we need a country run entirely by inexperienced bankrupts. That should end well.

[dragoncar]

Saw a typical, meandering "politicians are all crooks" message thread with this gem in it: the poster thinks that all of the current elected officials should be thrown out of office, and nobody with more than $20k in the bank should be allowed to run to replace them. This would return governance to "real Americans".

So, we need a country run entirely by inexperienced bankrupts. That should end well.

1) Give all money to spouse
2) run for president

[SpicyMcHaggus]

Saw a typical, meandering "politicians are all crooks" message thread with this gem in it: the poster thinks that all of the current elected officials should be thrown out of office, and nobody with more than $20k in the bank should be allowed to run to replace them. This would return governance to "real Americans".

So, we need a country run entirely by inexperienced bankrupts. That should end well.

I think most are more self interested than service interested.
It would be nice to throw them all out of office, and restrict lobbying.
I don't care how much you have in the bank; that has no bearing on intelligence and experience.

[merula]

I don't care how much you have in the bank; that has no bearing on intelligence and experience.

I disagree. There is a strong correlation between intelligence and experience and financial responsibility. It's not perfect, of course, you've got inheritance and mooching off parents on one hand and cycle of poverty and just plain bad luck on the other. But to say there's NO relationship there? That's going too far.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

I don't care how much you have in the bank; that has no bearing on intelligence and experience.

I disagree. There is a strong correlation between intelligence and experience and financial responsibility. It's not perfect, of course, you've got inheritance and mooching off parents on one hand and cycle of poverty and just plain bad luck on the other. But to say there's NO relationship there? That's going too far.

Correlation is not causation.

[Tallgirl1204]

I don't care how much you have in the bank; that has no bearing on intelligence and experience.

I disagree. There is a strong correlation between intelligence and experience and financial responsibility. It's not perfect, of course, you've got inheritance and mooching off parents on one hand and cycle of poverty and just plain bad luck on the other. But to say there's NO relationship there? That's going too far.

Correlation is not causation.

No, but luck favors the prepared.  I.e., preparation (education, experience and good attitude) is more likely to lead to some small degree of financial success than not.  Just to add another cliche to the fray. 

[SpicyMcHaggus]

I'm sure my experiences are the minority, and I'm willing to concede that most of the time the more intelligent and hard working individuals will come out ahead, but I also have several fairly uninterested friends who make >100k / yr and haven't worked half as hard as myself or my friend with a math degree and actuarial science who just found a job after 4 years looking.

[cerebus]

I don't care how much you have in the bank; that has no bearing on intelligence and experience.

1 Tim 3:5 says "for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?" And not at all to bring religion into the discussion, the principle is kind of the same with the economy, don't you think?

[GuitarStv]

Saw a typical, meandering "politicians are all crooks" message thread with this gem in it: the poster thinks that all of the current elected officials should be thrown out of office, and nobody with more than $20k in the bank should be allowed to run to replace them. This would return governance to "real Americans".

So, we need a country run entirely by inexperienced bankrupts. That should end well.

I think most are more self interested than service interested.
It would be nice to throw them all out of office, and restrict lobbying.
I don't care how much you have in the bank; that has no bearing on intelligence and experience.

I suspect impropriety would shoot through the roof if everyone in politics only had 20 grand to his or her name.  Power and no money is an accelerant to corruption.

[gimp]

I would agree, guitar. In quite a few of the shittier countries, people are known to re-elect candidates simply because they most likely stole enough during the first term that they can focus on other people's problems during the second...

[Beaker]

I don't care how much you have in the bank; that has no bearing on intelligence and experience.

I disagree. There is a strong correlation between intelligence and experience and financial responsibility. It's not perfect, of course, you've got inheritance and mooching off parents on one hand and cycle of poverty and just plain bad luck on the other. But to say there's NO relationship there? That's going too far.

Correlation is not causation.

If the point is to find intelligent leaders then correlation is sufficient.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

For the sake of argument, would you say that any of our current leaders are actively attempting to reduce the size of gov't and curtail waste and abuse?

I'd argue those are the only ones I'm willing to have remain. As it stands, I would like to see much more of this.

[Travis]

For the sake of argument, would you say that any of our current leaders are actively attempting to reduce the size of gov't and curtail waste and abuse?

I'd argue those are the only ones I'm willing to have remain. As it stands, I would like to see much more of this.

Reducing the size of the government and cutting waste tends to mean "What I cherish and the other guy hates."  There was a poll done recently that said 90% of people thought there was substantial waste in government that could be removed, but it became a party-line split on exactly what that waste was. 

[Ascotillion]

Saw a post on Facebook today about a complete moron who dropped his phone out of his pants pocket and smashed up the screen. He's going to have to pay $130 to get it fixed!


_{that post was by me :(}

[Kris]

For the sake of argument, would you say that any of our current leaders are actively attempting to reduce the size of gov't and curtail waste and abuse?

I'd argue those are the only ones I'm willing to have remain. As it stands, I would like to see much more of this.

Reducing the size of the government and cutting waste tends to mean "What I cherish and the other guy hates."  There was a poll done recently that said 90% of people thought there was substantial waste in government that could be removed, but it became a party-line split on exactly what that waste was.

Exactly.  It's a dog-whistle line, designed to entrench people even more firmly in their distrust of whatever their particular (partisan) notion of whatever "big government" is. 

Of course everyone thinks that we should "reduce (whatever we view as wasteful or enabling) government" and "curtail waste and abuse".  Find me a politician, or a voter, for that matter, who says, "I think government isn't big or bloated enough, and I sure wish they would waste more money."

[Hunny156]

For the sake of argument, would you say that any of our current leaders are actively attempting to reduce the size of gov't and curtail waste and abuse?

I'd argue those are the only ones I'm willing to have remain. As it stands, I would like to see much more of this.

Reducing the size of the government and cutting waste tends to mean "What I cherish and the other guy hates."  There was a poll done recently that said 90% of people thought there was substantial waste in government that could be removed, but it became a party-line split on exactly what that waste was.

Exactly.  It's a dog-whistle line, designed to entrench people even more firmly in their distrust of whatever their particular (partisan) notion of whatever "big government" is. 

Of course everyone thinks that we should "reduce (whatever we view as wasteful or enabling) government" and "curtail waste and abuse".  Find me a politician, or a voter, for that matter, who says, "I think government isn't big or bloated enough, and I sure wish they would waste more money."

I saw a documentary on Super Storm Sandy a few months ago, and many of the people who experienced the most devastation were very angry at wasteful govt spending, instead of spending more $$ to help them.  The reporter followed up with a series of big ticket govt spending items, and asked them if these items should experience cuts.  The only item people were OK w/cutting?  Spending money on other countries, which isn't a substantial part of our budget.  It's also a misconception that we just ship pallets of cash every year, when in reality, most of that money comes right back into our pockets anyway, since our military costs are being paid for by this spending.

[sw1tch]

Saw a post on Facebook today about a complete moron who dropped his phone out of his pants pocket and smashed up the screen. He's going to have to pay $130 to get it fixed!


_{that post was by me :(}

I did pretty much the same thing last September within a week of receiving my new phone!  To make things worse, it happened at the beginning of a trip to Mount Rushmore, so I had to settle with the cracked screen the entire trip.  However, I decided to suck it in (afterwards of course) and DIY replaced the screen myself.  There's probably a youtube video with a step by step guide for your specific phone.

It's a little tedious but definitely do-able.  Many places sell the entire screen + frame already glued together.  You just have to be extra careful to transfer things over to the new screen and connect everything together.  I actually broke my ear speaker and had to order another on eBay!  So, all in all it cost me about $60 for the screen + frame (came with one-time use tools as well) and an extra $20 for the replacement speaker - the screen was from amazon.  FYI, this was for a Moto G.

If you don't buy the frame/screen as a combined piece, you'll have to heat up the existing glue to separate the glass from your existing frame (sounded like a PITA so I just bought the combo piece).

It was still wasted money but I learned how to do something and saved on having to pay someone to do it for me (I think I was quoted about the same ~$150).  The only real issue I have is that my screen/frame separated a little.  I fixed that with E6000 to glue it back together, but must've missed a spot on the corner.  That particular spot isn't sealed correctly, but I don't very much mind since everything works fine for me.

[Kris]

FB post from my fitness instructor (who is a kick-ass instructor, but wow, is he materialistic and shallow):

"The time has come to get a new car! Do I get the BMW 328i X-drive or the Audi A4 or the Volvo S60? (All models 2015) Please comment below! Thanks!"

Most of the comments are from people weighing in on the cars (many of whom have BMWs or Audis).  A few of them are saying cautionary things, like: "You already have a car," or "If you are up to date on saving for retirement.  If not, pinch yourself and remember that you just want the car, you don't need it," or "Wow, being a fitness instructor must pay better than I thought."  All of those comments are completely ignored.   

Literally ONE DAY after this post, he posts a status update from a BMW dealership: "Picking up my new car!!!"  With a shiny new photo of said car.

[RWD]

FB post from my fitness instructor (who is a kick-ass instructor, but wow, is he materialistic and shallow):

"The time has come to get a new car! Do I get the BMW 328i X-drive or the Audi A4 or the Volvo S60? (All models 2015) Please comment below! Thanks!"

Most of the comments are from people weighing in on the cars (many of whom have BMWs or Audis).  A few of them are saying cautionary things, like: "You already have a car," or "If you are up to date on saving for retirement.  If not, pinch yourself and remember that you just want the car, you don't need it," or "Wow, being a fitness instructor must pay better than I thought."  All of those comments are completely ignored.   

Literally ONE DAY after this post, he posts a status update from a BMW dealership: "Picking up my new car!!!"  With a shiny new photo of said car.

Wow... Assuming he got the 328i xDrive that's about $40k before options, taxes, and fees. Doesn't take many options to push that up to $50k. Monthly payment could be as high as $900/month for 60 months. Even a lease payment would be $600-700 (36 month lease).

[Kris]

FB post from my fitness instructor (who is a kick-ass instructor, but wow, is he materialistic and shallow):

"The time has come to get a new car! Do I get the BMW 328i X-drive or the Audi A4 or the Volvo S60? (All models 2015) Please comment below! Thanks!"

Most of the comments are from people weighing in on the cars (many of whom have BMWs or Audis).  A few of them are saying cautionary things, like: "You already have a car," or "If you are up to date on saving for retirement.  If not, pinch yourself and remember that you just want the car, you don't need it," or "Wow, being a fitness instructor must pay better than I thought."  All of those comments are completely ignored.   

Literally ONE DAY after this post, he posts a status update from a BMW dealership: "Picking up my new car!!!"  With a shiny new photo of said car.

Wow... Assuming he got the 328i xDrive that's about $40k before options, taxes, and fees. Doesn't take many options to push that up to $50k. Monthly payment could be as high as $900/month for 60 months. Even a lease payment would be $600-700 (36 month lease).

Yeah, and this guy would do ALL the options.  I wouldn't be surprised if he literally took like the whole works.  Shaking my head...

And on a related note, he is one of those guys who posts multiple times a day on FB, and literally every second or third post is him checking in at a restaurant or at someplace like Pottery Barn or West Elm. Ugh.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

Makes me recall the admin assistant where I work who has a $900/mo apartment, satellite TV, and a 2014 Mercedes CLA250. They START at 29,900. that's a minimum of $400/ month. She's a single mom and is pregnant again. I just keep reminding myself not to be bothered by problems that aren't mine; she doesn't even think it is a problem.

[MgoSam]

FB post from my fitness instructor (who is a kick-ass instructor, but wow, is he materialistic and shallow):

"The time has come to get a new car! Do I get the BMW 328i X-drive or the Audi A4 or the Volvo S60? (All models 2015) Please comment below! Thanks!"

Most of the comments are from people weighing in on the cars (many of whom have BMWs or Audis).  A few of them are saying cautionary things, like: "You already have a car," or "If you are up to date on saving for retirement.  If not, pinch yourself and remember that you just want the car, you don't need it," or "Wow, being a fitness instructor must pay better than I thought."  All of those comments are completely ignored.   

Literally ONE DAY after this post, he posts a status update from a BMW dealership: "Picking up my new car!!!"  With a shiny new photo of said car.

Wow... Assuming he got the 328i xDrive that's about $40k before options, taxes, and fees. Doesn't take many options to push that up to $50k. Monthly payment could be as high as $900/month for 60 months. Even a lease payment would be $600-700 (36 month lease).

Yeah, and this guy would do ALL the options.  I wouldn't be surprised if he literally took like the whole works.  Shaking my head...

And on a related note, he is one of those guys who posts multiple times a day on FB, and literally every second or third post is him checking in at a restaurant or at someplace like Pottery Barn or West Elm. Ugh.

What's sad is that my guess is your gym must love him because he needs to be working. Unless he has an outside source of money (family, marriage, or if he works outside of being an instructor), he likely will work as many hours as they will give him.

[jinga nation]

FB post from my fitness instructor (who is a kick-ass instructor, but wow, is he materialistic and shallow):

"The time has come to get a new car! Do I get the BMW 328i X-drive or the Audi A4 or the Volvo S60? (All models 2015) Please comment below! Thanks!"

Most of the comments are from people weighing in on the cars (many of whom have BMWs or Audis).  A few of them are saying cautionary things, like: "You already have a car," or "If you are up to date on saving for retirement.  If not, pinch yourself and remember that you just want the car, you don't need it," or "Wow, being a fitness instructor must pay better than I thought."  All of those comments are completely ignored.   

Literally ONE DAY after this post, he posts a status update from a BMW dealership: "Picking up my new car!!!"  With a shiny new photo of said car.

Finance dept personnel at several dealerships have told me that the BMW 3-series is the most common leased luxury car. Betcha he'll have a new car before his 4 year 50,000 mile warranty expires. The E46 was the last best BMW 3-series platform for DIY fixability. F30 ain't got anything on it.

[justajane]

It's debatable whether or not this is Antimustachian, but I was surprised to see a teacher friend of mine post on FB today a "flower" arrangement of at least 15 or more $10 gift cards to various restaurants, store and establishments, in addition two separate real flower arrangements. Evidently she received this as a thank you from her class. Don't get me wrong - teachers work very hard and are by and large under-appreciated in our culture. But I didn't realize that now the norm is to give a teacher a Christmas gift and an end-of-the-year gift. I guess I have to up my game, although with three kids these types of perfunctory gifts are going to add up fast!

[SpicyMcHaggus]

It's debatable whether or not this is Antimustachian, but I was surprised to see a teacher friend of mine post on FB today a "flower" arrangement of at least 15 or more $10 gift cards to various restaurants, store and establishments, in addition two separate real flower arrangements. Evidently she received this as a thank you from her class. Don't get me wrong - teachers work very hard and are by and large under-appreciated in our culture. But I didn't realize that now the norm is to give a teacher a Christmas gift and an end-of-the-year gift. I guess I have to up my game, although with three kids these types of perfunctory gifts are going to add up fast!

It's not. Don't do it.
They're compensated with year round benefits and a pension and work 9 months of the year.
They're "underpaid", but not really when you consider they work 67% of the hours I do in a year.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

It's debatable whether or not this is Antimustachian, but I was surprised to see a teacher friend of mine post on FB today a "flower" arrangement of at least 15 or more $10 gift cards to various restaurants, store and establishments, in addition two separate real flower arrangements. Evidently she received this as a thank you from her class. Don't get me wrong - teachers work very hard and are by and large under-appreciated in our culture. But I didn't realize that now the norm is to give a teacher a Christmas gift and an end-of-the-year gift. I guess I have to up my game, although with three kids these types of perfunctory gifts are going to add up fast!

It's not. Don't do it.
They're compensated with year round benefits and a pension and work 9 months of the year.
They're "underpaid", but not really when you consider they work 67% of the hours I do in a year.

I used to teach and my husband still does. It's a hard job, even with summers off (which they need to recover!). Anyway, gift cards are always nice, but it really is true that kind words are even more appreciated. Some parent has probably just been telling your kid's teacher that they're bad at what they do (I was accused of hating boys, of being racist, being prejudiced against this child or that child, and--on one memorable occasion--of being a Satanist after a quote from Paradise Lost came back to a parent as my personal beliefs). So nice words for a teacher are like an antidote for all those other words they get. Also, free for you!

[Ashyukun]

It's debatable whether or not this is Antimustachian, but I was surprised to see a teacher friend of mine post on FB today a "flower" arrangement of at least 15 or more $10 gift cards to various restaurants, store and establishments, in addition two separate real flower arrangements. Evidently she received this as a thank you from her class. Don't get me wrong - teachers work very hard and are by and large under-appreciated in our culture. But I didn't realize that now the norm is to give a teacher a Christmas gift and an end-of-the-year gift. I guess I have to up my game, although with three kids these types of perfunctory gifts are going to add up fast!

It's not. Don't do it.
They're compensated with year round benefits and a pension and work 9 months of the year.
They're "underpaid", but not really when you consider they work 67% of the hours I do in a year.

I would not say that it is the 'norm', but frankly I see absolutely nothing wrong with families showing appreciation for teachers that they feel have put in an extra effort for the children they teach. Teachers can make a massive difference in a child's life, and while they 'only work 9 months of the year' they put in very long hours during those 9 months and increasingly have to supply and pay for more and more of the necessary supplies to be able to teach effectively themselves instead of it being supplied by their school. Letting them know that their efforts are appreciated doesn't seem particularly anti-mustachian, any more than I would consider tipping a waitress for really good service to be anti-mustachian.

Now, there certainly ARE those who go way overboard and make a materialistic spectacle of those shows of appreciation. My wife is a dance teacher, and many of her students (or rather more their parents since she teachers primarily younger kids) give her lots of random and bizarre Christmas gifts. Socks, especially brightly colored and fuzzy ones, seem to be the most common but she was also given a ~$80 'designer' bag (it looks horrible), a bunch of gift cards (with wildly varying levels of usefulness- the worst of which was a $15 Sephora gift card which was almost worse than nothing since there was hardly -ANYTHING- in that store you could actually buy for under $15...), and other random weirdness. Half of the things (including the designer bag :P) were put up for sale on Amazon as soon as we were done boggling at their bizarreness.

Amusingly, despite their general popularity elsewhere from what I've seen, nobody gave her a Starbucks card- the kids all dread when she walks into the studio with a cup of something caffeinated (rarely Starbucks unless she has a gift card) because it means she's going to be super amped up and the kids are going to be HURTING from trying to keep up with her. :P

[MgoSam]

Saw this today:

___ (my friend) is feeling frustrated
"Time for retail therapy!"

Followed by quite a few likes.

[Tallgirl1204]

[/quote]

It's not. Don't do it.
They're compensated with year round benefits and a pension and work 9 months of the year.
They're "underpaid", but not really when you consider they work 67% of the hours I do in a year.
[/quote]

I would not say that it is the 'norm', but frankly I see absolutely nothing wrong with families showing appreciation for teachers that they feel have put in an extra effort for the children they teach. Teachers can make a massive difference in a child's life, and while they 'only work 9 months of the year' they put in very long hours during those 9 months and increasingly have to supply and pay for more and more of the necessary supplies to be able to teach effectively themselves instead of it being supplied by their school. Letting them know that their efforts are appreciated doesn't seem particularly anti-mustachian, any more than I would consider tipping a waitress for really good service to be anti-mustachian.

[/quote]

This.  Long hours doesn't begin to describe it.  10-12 hour days during which you're on stage for six or seven hours.  No spur of the moment bathroom break, no unplanned phone calls, no "feeling lousy today so I'll take it easy."  And it's not nine months any more-- our kids get 9 weeks off in the summer, and the teachers are at work for a week after and before them.  Plus continuing ed, evening programs and weekend fund raisers.

Compared to the five weeks (plus 10 holidays, making seven weeks) I get off a year in my cushy salaried job, our teachers get off a total of 10 weeks, none of which they can schedule themselves-- the calendar dictates everything.  So for an extra three weeks a year, they make half of what I do, working far harder than I do, for much longer daily hours.

So yeah, you bet we give gift cards.  Usually to Target.  They can buy stuff for the (woefully underfunded) classroom if they want, or groceries, or booze, or whatever-- I know which I would choose!

[dragoncar]

It's debatable whether or not this is Antimustachian, but I was surprised to see a teacher friend of mine post on FB today a "flower" arrangement of at least 15 or more $10 gift cards to various restaurants, store and establishments, in addition two separate real flower arrangements. Evidently she received this as a thank you from her class. Don't get me wrong - teachers work very hard and are by and large under-appreciated in our culture. But I didn't realize that now the norm is to give a teacher a Christmas gift and an end-of-the-year gift. I guess I have to up my game, although with three kids these types of perfunctory gifts are going to add up fast!

It's not. Don't do it.
They're compensated with year round benefits and a pension and work 9 months of the year.
They're "underpaid", but not really when you consider they work 67% of the hours I do in a year.

I would not say that it is the 'norm', but frankly I see absolutely nothing wrong with families showing appreciation for teachers that they feel have put in an extra effort for the children they teach. Teachers can make a massive difference in a child's life, and while they 'only work 9 months of the year' they put in very long hours during those 9 months and increasingly have to supply and pay for more and more of the necessary supplies to be able to teach effectively themselves instead of it being supplied by their school. Letting them know that their efforts are appreciated doesn't seem particularly anti-mustachian, any more than I would consider tipping a waitress for really good service to be anti-mustachian.

Now, there certainly ARE those who go way overboard and make a materialistic spectacle of those shows of appreciation. My wife is a dance teacher, and many of her students (or rather more their parents since she teachers primarily younger kids) give her lots of random and bizarre Christmas gifts. Socks, especially brightly colored and fuzzy ones, seem to be the most common but she was also given a ~$80 'designer' bag (it looks horrible), a bunch of gift cards (with wildly varying levels of usefulness- the worst of which was a $15 Sephora gift card which was almost worse than nothing since there was hardly -ANYTHING- in that store you could actually buy for under $15...), and other random weirdness. Half of the things (including the designer bag :P) were put up for sale on Amazon as soon as we were done boggling at their bizarreness.

Amusingly, despite their general popularity elsewhere from what I've seen, nobody gave her a Starbucks card- the kids all dread when she walks into the studio with a cup of something caffeinated (rarely Starbucks unless she has a gift card) because it means she's going to be super amped up and the kids are going to be HURTING from trying to keep up with her. :P

I don't have kids, but this is how I see it.  Basically, the school district makes salary decisions.  As a parent, you might not agree with those decisions.  Particularly, you may wish to offer higher compensation.  Giving gift cards or other compensation at the classroom level can help convince a teacher to stay.  Otherwise, the teacher may go to another higher paying district, or just say "fuck it, these people don't appreciate me" and retire.  If you have a good teacher, it makes sense to do whatever you can to make them happy.  I'm not saying it's an obligation, just smart parenting.

On the other hand, I remember back when there were budget cuts some teachers would pay for school supplies out of their own pockets.    In that case, I would say additional compensation is an obligation.

[justajane]

I tend to ask teachers what supplies they would like for the classroom and give those in December, and I have given everything from requested books to wooden toys. But I have also given Target gift cards. I don't tend to give Starbucks or other cards, in large part because I have no idea what they like to drink or eat. My point wasn't to say that teachers don't deserve these gifts. I am fully aware that they often use their own money to pay for things and, like I said above, I know how hard they work. I just had no idea that this was something that parents did twice a year.

My larger point, however, was that at some point all this gift giving could be considered Antimustachian for the gift giver. How many times have we seen a gift giving category on someone's budget in a case study and asked - "How the hell do you spend X amount of money per month on gifts?" Well, amortized over the course of the year, you might have one explanation right here - teacher's gifts. I have three kids, one of whom gets special services at the school for speech. So we're not just talking about one gift per kid. This past Christmas we spent $200 on gifts for teachers and daycare workers. I gave this willingly and happily, but if the norm is becoming to give gifts at the end of the year as well, I'm going to have to increase my budget for that category. We don't have debt and can afford it, but not everyone can. I like the idea of giving heartfelt cards, but when someone (who can't really afford it) notices that other parents are giving actual gift cards, it can be hard not to give like everyone else, even if you have to put it on credit.

I can imagine this thought process: "Well, even though we're living hand to mouth, we need to give something, because what if Johnny is treated differently because everyone else but him gave the teacher a gift?" Of course, most teachers are not petty like that, but it has already been expressed above by dragoncar that giving your teachers gifts is smart parenting, because it makes them happy. Even though I know dragoncar doesn't mean it this way, it's not a far leap from that to conclude that gifts are somehow a "bribe" to ensure that your kid is thought of kindly by the teacher.

Or maybe I'm just crazy and reading too much into all this. This is certainly in the realm of possibility, as I like to split hairs.

[Tallgirl1204]

[quote author=justajane link=topic=6907.msg655812#msg655812 date=

I can imagine this thought process: "Well, even though we're living hand to mouth, we need to give something, because what if Johnny is treated differently because everyone else but him gave the teacher a gift?" Of course, most teachers are not petty like that, but it has already been expressed above by dragoncar that giving your teachers gifts is smart parenting, because it makes them happy. Even though I know dragoncar doesn't mean it this way, it's not a far leap from that to conclude that gifts are somehow a "bribe" ...
[/quote]

Oh, now I get what you were thinking about.  I think there are a couple of things here.  First, if a parent thinks of it as a bribe, it would be worth giving at the beginning rather than the end, no?  A gift in June sort of defeats the idea of a bribe-- September would be better.  Also, for the family struggling financially, the gift of time and service is way more valuable in the younger grades than money.  Parents who show up with snacks when asked, help with reading groups, help time the track meets and run the bake sales-- those are golden, and I think that translates into more positive regard by the teachers than any gift cards.

Of course, the teachers know not everyone has time or money.  Single-parent households, families who are struggling on two-income minimum wage salaries-- and the teachers know who these families are, because kids say stuff at school about how things are at home.  Although I have observed that often these families are the ones who show up somehow anyway. 

Lastly-lastly, the person who wrote about the value of a heart felt thank you note is totally right.  I taught school for just a few years -- long enough to know how hard it is and how unfit I was for it as a career--  and the gifts I remember are not gift cards, but the note from a parent thanking me for getting her son the help he needed, or the student who told me how I had changed her attitude about learning.  I still have those notes. 

If you can afford it, do both. 

[Nudelkopf]

I must be a shit teacher - the only ever present I got was some weird stuffed unicorn. It was cute, though, and sits on my desk. I'm a high school teacher though, so when I only spend 4 to 8 hours per week with a student for 40 weeks of the year, I don't really expect a present. It's not like I give them anything.

In my state (and probably other states in Australia), teachers are not allowed to accept gift cards.

[margarita]

When my kids were young I asked one of the teachers what they would think would be the perfect gift and I was told "Kleenex".  The school doesn't supply Kleenex and with 30 kids and a long cold winter they bought a lot. 

I also used to buy packages of markers, coloured pencils, and other supplies.  Anything useful for the classroom that they would have to buy out of the own pocket was greatly appreciated.

They don't need another mug that says "world's greatest teacher" or a mug with an apple on it. 

[Nudelkopf]

When my kids were young I asked one of the teachers what they would think would be the perfect gift and I was told "Kleenex".  The school doesn't supply Kleenex and with 30 kids and a long cold winter they bought a lot. 

This!! Why do parents send their kids to school without tissues???

Also, lots of exercise books (so many students don't bring exercise books to school!), and lead pencils (again, it's one of the basics, that so many don't bring). And coloured paper - that shit is expensive.

[tmac]

One of the parents organized a nice thing for my son's teacher this year. Her son brought in a vase, and everyone else brought in a single flower. There were lots of daffodils and tulips, which are in season here now. I can imagine how sweet that was, to have one 3rd grader after the next present her with a "thank you" and a flower. :)

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Another idea: Many schools these days have "Donors Choose" projects. My kid's teacher has some stuff on there and I was planning on dropping a few dollars on it.

[justajane]

When my kids were young I asked one of the teachers what they would think would be the perfect gift and I was told "Kleenex".  The school doesn't supply Kleenex and with 30 kids and a long cold winter they bought a lot. 

This!! Why do parents send their kids to school without tissues???

Probably because they falsely assume that it is something that the school provides like toilet paper. We have to bring two boxes at the beginning of the school year, and that usually lasts.

[mm1970]

This.  Long hours doesn't begin to describe it.  10-12 hour days during which you're on stage for six or seven hours.  No spur of the moment bathroom break, no unplanned phone calls, no "feeling lousy today so I'll take it easy."  And it's not nine months any more-- our kids get 9 weeks off in the summer, and the teachers are at work for a week after and before them.  Plus continuing ed, evening programs and weekend fund raisers.

Compared to the five weeks (plus 10 holidays, making seven weeks) I get off a year in my cushy salaried job, our teachers get off a total of 10 weeks, none of which they can schedule themselves-- the calendar dictates everything.  So for an extra three weeks a year, they make half of what I do, working far harder than I do, for much longer daily hours.

I am going to preface this with: I respect teachers and couldn't do what they do.

But as far as the hours go, with the teachers that I know -
As far as I can tell, they start the day the same time that I do, and end the same time.
The teachers with children tend to leave right after school is over, but they probably do their grading and prep after the kids are in bed.
The teachers who are empty-nesters do their work at school, and they are the ones I see leaving at 5:30 pm, which is when I pick up my kid from after school care.
I don't get to schedule my vacation time either, but then - I'm at the mercy of the school schedule (who the eff decided to start school and end school on a Weds, and close for an entire week at Thanksgiving?  That's like saying "eff you" to parents, because that tacked on another FOUR DAYS that I have to take off a year where there is NO CAMP).

Our school has 11 weeks off in the summer, 1 at Thanksgiving, 2 at Christmas, and 1 at spring break.  That's 15 weeks.  Plus 6 extra holidays.  Let's call it 16 weeks.  They work a few of those days and of course the good ones "keep up" with things in the summer and also do volunteer work - the garden, the PTA, etc.  One of the teachers at our elementary also has a child there and volunteers at the PTA.

That said, I don't get teachers gifts, because I'm frankly overwhelmed with everything. I do appreciate what they do - and I think they know that when they see me on the PTA board, busting my a$$ to raise money to pay for teacher stipends (for classroom supplies), and money for field trips and the buses to get kids to the field trips.

[trailrated]

"Ahhhh I am stressing, it is so hard not having a car and rental cars are so expensive!!! I had to special order my mercedes with palladium and cranberry interior and it will take 2-3 months!!!!!! #sacrifices"

Follow up comment: "I had to order the brand new car because I crashed my old one and it would have been too expensive to fix"

What. The. Fuck.

[zephyr911]

 "I had to order the brand new car because I crashed my old one and it would have been too expensive to fix"

Uhh... car insurance?

[MgoSam]

"Ahhhh I am stressing, it is so hard not having a car and rental cars are so expensive!!! I had to special order my mercedes with palladium and cranberry interior and it will take 2-3 months!!!!!! #sacrifices"

Follow up comment: "I had to order the brand new car because I crashed my old one and it would have been too expensive to fix"

What. The. Fuck.

Wow, talk about clueless. I do agree that cars can be hard to go without in certain areas, and that rental cars can be expensive, but if the alternative in your head are Mercedes then you got a problem.

[Tallgirl1204]

That said, I don't get teachers gifts, because I'm frankly overwhelmed with everything. I do appreciate what they do - and I think they know that when they see me on the PTA board, busting my a$$ to raise money to pay for teacher stipends (for classroom supplies), and money for field trips and the buses to get kids to the field trips.

I won't argue with you about the hours, because we all have our own understandings and perceptions and work schedules (and wow, your school district gives a lot of time off!) 

But-- serving on the PTA board, helping raise money--  you are a rock star, and the kind of parent that most principals dream of.   I give gift cards because I don't have this kind of time or energy.  Good for you. 

[Taran Wanderer]

One of the parents organized a nice thing for my son's teacher this year. Her son brought in a vase, and everyone else brought in a single flower. There were lots of daffodils and tulips, which are in season here now. I can imagine how sweet that was, to have one 3rd grader after the next present her with a "thank you" and a flower. :)

Fantastic.  I can't wait to do this.

[cerebus]

One of the parents organized a nice thing for my son's teacher this year. Her son brought in a vase, and everyone else brought in a single flower. There were lots of daffodils and tulips, which are in season here now. I can imagine how sweet that was, to have one 3rd grader after the next present her with a "thank you" and a flower. :)

Fantastic.  I can't wait to do this.

+1. Totally doing this.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

"Ahhhh I am stressing, it is so hard not having a car and rental cars are so expensive!!! I had to special order my mercedes with palladium and cranberry interior and it will take 2-3 months!!!!!! #sacrifices"

Follow up comment: "I had to order the brand new car because I crashed my old one and it would have been too expensive to fix"

What. The. Fuck.

Wow, talk about clueless. I do agree that cars can be hard to go without in certain areas, and that rental cars can be expensive, but if the alternative in your head are Mercedes then you got a problem.

Not clueless at all. It's a classic humblebrag.

[trailrated]

"Ahhhh I am stressing, it is so hard not having a car and rental cars are so expensive!!! I had to special order my mercedes with palladium and cranberry interior and it will take 2-3 months!!!!!! #sacrifices"

Follow up comment: "I had to order the brand new car because I crashed my old one and it would have been too expensive to fix"

What. The. Fuck.

Wow, talk about clueless. I do agree that cars can be hard to go without in certain areas, and that rental cars can be expensive, but if the alternative in your head are Mercedes then you got a problem.

Not clueless at all. It's a classic humblebrag.

A sad one at that... she can't be making more than ~60k/yr, she used to work for me so I have some idea. Nice girl, but I am pretty sure she dropped more than her annual salary on a car and now has to rent one in the interim.