Trump outrage of the day

[bacchi]

There's a pardon-bribery investigation going on in the DC District. Some attorney-client privileges have been breached, which indicates how serious it is.

That'll be a constitutional case. Can a President pardon someone for a direct donation/bribe?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/presidential-pardon-justice-department/index.html

... and can/will Trump just issue a pardon for the pardon/bribery case?

Strict constructionism results in   the cut-and-dried  answer that he can for the reason that a president's Pardon Power is plenary "except in Cases of Impeachment."

ARTICLE II.

SECTION 2, CLAUSE 1

The President shall...have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

I expect Trump has plausible deniability if it's at all connected to him. "Mark Meadows?* Never heard of the guy."


* Meadows is an example and has not been mentioned in the investigation.

[GuitarStv]

There's a pardon-bribery investigation going on in the DC District. Some attorney-client privileges have been breached, which indicates how serious it is.

That'll be a constitutional case. Can a President pardon someone for a direct donation/bribe?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/presidential-pardon-justice-department/index.html

... and can/will Trump just issue a pardon for the pardon/bribery case?

Strict constructionism results in   the cut-and-dried  answer that he can for the reason that a president's Pardon Power is plenary "except in Cases of Impeachment."

However bribery is also illegal under State laws in every State in the US, and Trump can't protect against State charges.

No president has ever been brought to court after getting out of office.  I don't think Trump will break this streak.

[sherr]

There's a pardon-bribery investigation going on in the DC District. Some attorney-client privileges have been breached, which indicates how serious it is.

That'll be a constitutional case. Can a President pardon someone for a direct donation/bribe?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/presidential-pardon-justice-department/index.html

... and can/will Trump just issue a pardon for the pardon/bribery case?

Strict constructionism results in   the cut-and-dried  answer that he can for the reason that a president's Pardon Power is plenary "except in Cases of Impeachment."

However bribery is also illegal under State laws in every State in the US, and Trump can't protect against State charges.

No president has ever been brought to court after getting out of office.  I don't think Trump will break this streak.

Maybe not, but offering a bribe is usually just as illegal as taking one. The people that he'd be pardoning (other than himself) can still be on the hook.

[FIPurpose]

And a pardon usually includes an admission of guilt. So yeah there might be some jail time included if these people who are offering bribes are under particular state's jurisdictions.

[Glenstache]

What's up with Flynn calling for martial law?
https://www.newsweek.com/michael-flynn-call-martial-law-comes-amid-violent-threats-trump-election-defeat-1551769

[talltexan]

I was just sent a weird video by an Evangelical friend of mine with a pastor predicting a "Christmas miracle" which I guess will be Trump's securing continued time in office.

[John Galt incarnate!]

And a pardon usually includes an admission of guilt.

When a president  pardons a scoundrel many citizens think "The bum/rat  got off with a pardon."

But does  a pardonee merit escape of all opprobrium for their misdeed(s)?

They do not because  a pardon "carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it."


Burdick is an apposite case.

BURDICK v. UNITED STATES (1915)

This brings us to the differences between legislative immunity and a pardon. They are substantial.  the latter carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it. The former has no such imputation or confession. It is tantamount to the silence of the witness. It is noncommittal. It is the unobtrusive act of the law given protection against a sinister use of his testimony, not like a pardon, requiring him to confess his guilt in order to avoid a conviction of it.

[OtherJen]

And the shittiest Whack-a-Mole game continues:

Michigan lawmakers being lobbied to disregard vote, award Trump electors (Bridge Michigan)

In a Tuesday email to Republican legislators, a person identifying themselves as Kerrick Kuder of the Trump campaign’s election day operations team alleged the MIchigan election was “compromised” and urged “dramatic and Constitutional measures to right this injustice.”

The email claims the president wants Republican majorities in the Michigan House and Senate to approve a joint resolution to “allow Michigan to send electors for Donald J Trump to the Electoral College and save our country.”

“All eyes of the country are looking at Michigan right now,” states the email that Bridge Michigan has obtained.

Sent Tuesday from a donaldtrump.com address, the email came the same day several GOP legislators received a phone message from someone who identified themselves as Angela McCallum, of the Trump campaign, that also urged legislators to appoint their own electors.

[bacchi]

And the shittiest Whack-a-Mole game continues:

Michigan lawmakers being lobbied to disregard vote, award Trump electors (Bridge Michigan)

In a Tuesday email to Republican legislators, a person identifying themselves as Kerrick Kuder of the Trump campaign’s election day operations team alleged the MIchigan election was “compromised” and urged “dramatic and Constitutional measures to right this injustice.”

The email claims the president wants Republican majorities in the Michigan House and Senate to approve a joint resolution to “allow Michigan to send electors for Donald J Trump to the Electoral College and save our country.”

“All eyes of the country are looking at Michigan right now,” states the email that Bridge Michigan has obtained.

Sent Tuesday from a donaldtrump.com address, the email came the same day several GOP legislators received a phone message from someone who identified themselves as Angela McCallum, of the Trump campaign, that also urged legislators to appoint their own electors.

Insanity. There's a seemingly thin wall being held against a mob of deluded individuals fighting for a guy who would throw them under a bus without a care.

[scottish]

Yeah, those people are a bunch of lollipops.    They're sending millions of dollars to their hero, the self-made billionaire.

My hope is that he starts his own news network.   With Trump in charge, it's bound to use up most of the capital he has left.   Then he can quietly fade into the annals of history...

[sixwings]

Yeah, those people are a bunch of lollipops.    They're sending millions of dollars to their hero, the self-made billionaire.

My hope is that he starts his own news network.   With Trump in charge, it's bound to use up most of the capital he has left.   Then he can quietly fade into the annals of history...

I don't, there's a lot of money to be made in the right wing media space sowing disinformation, hate, racism and distrust. Hannity isn't a poor guy and it's not very hard. Just make stuff up about caravans of brown people approaching the US and how soshialism is taking over. It's really dangerous and awful and with Trump, an ex-president, lending some impression of it being legit to anyone who doesnt know any better, that would be really really really bad for the US IMO.

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

Yeah, those people are a bunch of lollipops.    They're sending millions of dollars to their hero, the self-made billionaire.

My hope is that he starts his own news network.   With Trump in charge, it's bound to use up most of the capital he has left.   Then he can quietly fade into the annals of history...

I don't, there's a lot of money to be made in the right wing media space sowing disinformation, hate, racism and distrust. Hannity isn't a poor guy and it's not very hard. Just make stuff up about caravans of brown people approaching the US and how soshialism is taking over. It's really dangerous and awful and with Trump, an ex-president, lending some impression of it being legit to anyone who doesnt know any better, that would be really really really bad for the US IMO.

Yeah but this is a man who lost money owning casinos so having a failing news network would just fit his bad business pattern. 

[meghan88]

No posts in this thread since Dec 2 ... I'm surprised, is everyone numb at this point? 

Here's a clip regarding Mellissa Carone's awe-inspiring testimony on Dec 3:  https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/clarissajanlim/rudy-giuliani-witness-trump-campaign-voter-fraud-mellissa

Gonna watch SNL tonight for sure.

[frugalnacho]

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1334344279305695232?s=20

This clip just keeps getting funnier every time I watch it.

[the_fixer]

No posts in this thread since Dec 2 ... I'm surprised, is everyone numb at this point? 

Nah we all moved over to the Trump outrage of the hour thread


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[OtherJen]

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1334344279305695232?s=20

This clip just keeps getting funnier every time I watch it.

Yep, this is what our state legislators have done since returning from break. They certainly haven’t been addressing the 25% of counties where the ICUs are at max capacity or the economy in free fall. Giving bigoted, unhinged crackpots an open mic and letting Giuliani fart on camera is a much better use of our state tax dollars.

[Roadrunner53]

Trump has been threatening Brian Kemp to overturn the election in Georgia. How is that not tampering with the election? Isn't Trump trying to rig the election? If so, why doesn't he get arrested for this? If you or I threatened a Governor and tried to sway an election a certain way, wouldn't they put us in jail?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/georgia-gov-brian-kemp-trump_n_5fcbebf8c5b6636e0925c594

[Travis]

Trump has been threatening Brian Kemp to overturn the election in Georgia. How is that not tampering with the election? Isn't Trump trying to rig the election? If so, why doesn't he get arrested for this? If you or I threatened a Governor and tried to sway an election a certain way, wouldn't they put us in jail?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/georgia-gov-brian-kemp-trump_n_5fcbebf8c5b6636e0925c594

Yes it's a crime. He tried to do the same thing to Governor Ducey of Arizona last week, but Ducey refused to answer the phone call. Trump tried to interrupt him from literally signing the certification letter on live television.  No, nothing will be done about it. The same Senators that we would entrust to serve as a jury are actively helping him in this.

[ixtap]

Trump has been threatening Brian Kemp to overturn the election in Georgia. How is that not tampering with the election? Isn't Trump trying to rig the election? If so, why doesn't he get arrested for this? If you or I threatened a Governor and tried to sway an election a certain way, wouldn't they put us in jail?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/georgia-gov-brian-kemp-trump_n_5fcbebf8c5b6636e0925c594

Because Collins was sure he had learned his lesson, even though everyone with a brain knew that acquitting him would teach him jackshit.

[GuitarStv]

Trump has been threatening Brian Kemp to overturn the election in Georgia. How is that not tampering with the election? Isn't Trump trying to rig the election? If so, why doesn't he get arrested for this? If you or I threatened a Governor and tried to sway an election a certain way, wouldn't they put us in jail?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/georgia-gov-brian-kemp-trump_n_5fcbebf8c5b6636e0925c594

As we've learned from Trump, a president in office is above the law of the land and cannot be held accountable like a regular citizen.  He is an untouchable king.

[Omy]

He is an untouchable king if the Senate supports him.

[JLee]

He is an untouchable king if the Senate supports him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/survey-who-won-election-republicans-congress/2020/12/04/1a1011f6-3650-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html

[OtherJen]

Well, shit. Does this mean we won't have to listen to his flatulence for the next 10 days? Conveniently, this will put Giuliani in quarantine until after the Electoral College meets.

Rudy Giuliani Tests Positive For Coronavirus, Trump Says

[meghan88]

Well, shit. Does this mean we won't have to listen to his flatulence for the next 10 days? Conveniently, this will put Giuliani in quarantine until after the Electoral College meets.

Rudy Giuliani Tests Positive For Coronavirus, Trump Says

Wow, COVID jumped species again ... back to bat.

[Glenstache]

Well, shit. Does this mean we won't have to listen to his flatulence for the next 10 days? Conveniently, this will put Giuliani in quarantine until after the Electoral College meets.

Rudy Giuliani Tests Positive For Coronavirus, Trump Says

I mean, technically, Trump said he tested positive for the China Virus.

[Abe]

He is an untouchable king if the Senate supports him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/survey-who-won-election-republicans-congress/2020/12/04/1a1011f6-3650-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html

To be fair, the article could equally accurately have a headline of "Republicans don't immediately respond to hastily arranged survey within the minimal response time provided".

Or "90% of Republicans who responded to hastily arranged survey within the minimal response time provided acknowledge Biden won".

Clickbait nonsense articles are not helping. That's why I stopped subscribing to WaPo after Bezos bought them.

[JLee]

He is an untouchable king if the Senate supports him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/survey-who-won-election-republicans-congress/2020/12/04/1a1011f6-3650-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html

To be fair, the article could equally accurately have a headline of "Republicans don't immediately respond to hastily arranged survey within the minimal response time provided".

Or "90% of Republicans who responded to hastily arranged survey within the minimal response time provided acknowledge Biden won".

Clickbait nonsense articles are not helping. That's why I stopped subscribing to WaPo after Bezos bought them.

How much response time do you consider sufficient to state which person won the election?  If someone asked you Thursday morning, do you think you'd be able to answer by the end of the day on Friday?

The alleged hastiness you claim is irrelevant to the question.

[jim555]

Wow, COVID jumped species again ... back to bat.

Now we know where COVID-21 will come from - Rudy.

[partgypsy]

When I heard the news about Rudy, this song popped in my head https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YuS698b0ess

[Roadrunner53]

Barr may plan to bail out before Trump leaves office. This could be really bad if Trump puts in one of his yes men to investigate and claim there was fraudulent activity.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/william-barr-considering-leaving-office/index.html

[partgypsy]

I thought Barr WAS his yes man?

[talltexan]

LOL, yeah, imagine what could happen if Trump was able to appoint an attorney general who *checks notes* believed in the unitary executive theory of government.

[Just Joe]

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1334344279305695232?s=20

This clip just keeps getting funnier every time I watch it.

What a legacy to be proud of for Rudy...

Has anyone ELSE reviewed that evidence than the Trump team? Is it published on the web somewhere? Or is Rudy just waving around a three ring binder with a bunch of paper in it?

[Just Joe]

He is an untouchable king if the Senate supports him.

And that is scary as hell. Checks and balances they taught us in school.

Like everything else in this country - it all sounds good. Reality is a little different.

We have a great "PR department" in this country. All these great words like freedom (for who?), free markets (for who?), etc etc.

[OtherJen]

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1334344279305695232?s=20

This clip just keeps getting funnier every time I watch it.

What a legacy to be proud of for Rudy...

Has anyone ELSE reviewed that evidence than the Trump team? Is it published on the web somewhere? Or is Rudy just waving around a three ring binder with a bunch of paper in it?

Which evidence? Trump's team has been booted out of dozens of courts because the judges reviewed the cases and found no credible evidence.

Here in Michigan, they submitted (among other things) data from Minnesota, data from MI municipalities that they misreported and for which the correct data are publicly available, and even made-up data from a non-existent county.

[talltexan]

Will they give Rudy the monoclonal therapy (like they did for the President)?

Or will they withhold it from him (like they did for Herman Caine)?

[Just Joe]

Good point. I assumed it was a binder of heresay and rumor. More or less what my most outspoken coworkers are parroting. Just witnessed another watercooler type conversation in support of the Trump rumors.

The treatment: interesting question! I'll bet he gets routine care, not Trump special care. Imagine if Rudy passes away from COVID.

[the_fixer]

They authorized it for Ben Carson when he was sick.

When I heard Rudy went to the hospital I assumed it was so he could get the treatment ASAP and get back on the road.


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[talltexan]

Carson holds a cabinet position. Rudy has never held a cabinet position.

[frugalnacho]

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1334344279305695232?s=20

This clip just keeps getting funnier every time I watch it.

What a legacy to be proud of for Rudy...

Has anyone ELSE reviewed that evidence than the Trump team? Is it published on the web somewhere? Or is Rudy just waving around a three ring binder with a bunch of paper in it?

Pretty sure they are just gas lighting us.  Claiming we (anyone) simply won't review the evidence and waving a binder around, when the reality is there is no evidence. None credible.

[nereo]

Consider:

• Trump is on the hook for about $421MM in debt that he's personally guaranteed, most of which is due in the next few years
• Trump has raised over $210MM since election day for his Super PAC to "legal challenges to this RIGGED election"
• Less than $9MM of that money raised has actually gone towards legal challenges to the election.
• Donations to Trump's super PAC can be used "to offset debt".

Obvious conclusion:  Trump is leveraging this "Stop The Steal" nonsense for the express purpose of paying off his debt before leaving office.  I personally question whether he truly believes the election was rigged against him, but instead think he's just using it as another convenient con to line his own pockets.

[ixtap]

Consider:

• Trump is on the hook for about $421MM in debt that he's personally guaranteed, most of which is due in the next few years
• Trump has raised over $210MM since election day for his Super PAC to "legal challenges to this RIGGED election"
• Less than $9MM of that money raised has actually gone towards legal challenges to the election.
• Donations to Trump's super PAC can be used "to offset debt".

Obvious conclusion:  Trump is leveraging this "Stop The Steal" nonsense for the express purpose of paying off his debt before leaving office.  I personally question whether he truly believes the election was rigged against him, but instead think he's just using it as another convenient con to line his own pockets.

I think the difference between a pathological liar and a sociopath is that neither actually has a believe/ don't believe switch, but the sociopath is fascinated by those who do and is just pushing buttons to see what they can get other people to believe.

[Roadrunner53]

Yes, this is an obvious conclusion that he will keep promoting till the day he leaves to rake in more and more money.

[Psychstache]

Yes, this is an obvious conclusion that he will keep promoting till the day he leaves to rake in more and more money.

That's ridiculous. He will keep promoting long after he has left office.

[OtherJen]

Yes, this is an obvious conclusion that he will keep promoting till the day he leaves to rake in more and more money.

That's ridiculous. He will keep promoting long after he has left office.

Of course he will. Somebody's got to pay his debts. Now he has a cult of true-believers who will do whatever he asks. Of course he'll continue to exploit them. He's already back to holding rallies (under the guise of supporting GOP senatorial candidates because of course that's a great use of his presidential duties during major public health and economic crises).

[nereo]

Yes, this is an obvious conclusion that he will keep promoting till the day he leaves to rake in more and more money.

That's ridiculous. He will keep promoting long after he has left office.

Of course he will. Somebody's got to pay his debts. Now he has a cult of true-believers who will do whatever he asks. Of course he'll continue to exploit them. He's already back to holding rallies (under the guise of supporting GOP senatorial candidates because of course that's a great use of his presidential duties during major public health and economic crises).

Speaking of rallies - did anyone hear the latest one?  He was ostensibly there to promote the two GOP candidates in the Georgia run-off election.  He spent about 10 minutes total talking about the candidates and the race, and over an hour and a half on himself and his own list of grievances.
...of course his followers lapped it all up, but I can help by wonder how dangerously effective he could be if he could manage to stay on script and on message.

[LennStar]

Yes, this is an obvious conclusion that he will keep promoting till the day he leaves to rake in more and more money.

That's ridiculous. He will keep promoting long after he has left office.

Of course he will. Somebody's got to pay his debts. Now he has a cult of true-believers who will do whatever he asks. Of course he'll continue to exploit them. He's already back to holding rallies (under the guise of supporting GOP senatorial candidates because of course that's a great use of his presidential duties during major public health and economic crises).

I wonder if there are already ghostwriters typing down his books. For the Church of Trumpology. Get THE TRUTH in 25 levels for just $500 starting, doubling each level.

[OtherJen]

Michigan, yet again.

Michigan Secretary Of State Says Armed Protesters Descended On Her Home Saturday (NPR)

Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson says "dozens" of armed protesters descended on her home Saturday night, using megaphones to disrupt what had been a quiet evening with her young son. It was meant to intimidate her, Benson said — adding that it didn't work.

The crowd was made up of people angry over President Trump's election loss. They shouted and chanted slogans outside Benson's house in a Detroit neighborhood, echoing conspiracy theories about the Nov. 3 voting process.

Remember, this is after the militia plot to kidnap our governor.

Also, the state reps present at last week's now infamous Giuliani kangaroo court are getting threatening messages. Rep. Johnson from Detroit, a black woman, has been threatened with lynching. Black Michigan lawmaker posts voicemails saying she should be lynched (Detroit Free Press)

Trump and his campaign are fueling domestic terrorism and what increasingly appears to be sedition.

[OzzieandHarriet]

Will he go through with this or is he just yanking our chains (yet again)?

https://www.axios.com/trump-biden-inauguration-florida-rally-78b56134-54ae-4113-ad0a-ae29cd5c7be1.html

[partgypsy]

Consider:

• Trump is on the hook for about $421MM in debt that he's personally guaranteed, most of which is due in the next few years
• Trump has raised over $210MM since election day for his Super PAC to "legal challenges to this RIGGED election"

Some want their money back, because the money did not go towards what they said it was going for. 
https://www.wral.com/nc-businessman-wants-his-money-back-after-donating-millions-to-pro-trump-group-to-investigate-voter-fraud/19408939/

• Less than $9MM of that money raised has actually gone towards legal challenges to the election.
• Donations to Trump's super PAC can be used "to offset debt".

Obvious conclusion:  Trump is leveraging this "Stop The Steal" nonsense for the express purpose of paying off his debt before leaving office.  I personally question whether he truly believes the election was rigged against him, but instead think he's just using it as another convenient con to line his own pockets.

I think the difference between a pathological liar and a sociopath is that neither actually has a believe/ don't believe switch, but the sociopath is fascinated by those who do and is just pushing buttons to see what they can get other people to believe.