Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681121 times)

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4450 on: October 01, 2020, 02:08:06 PM »
And in news that is not surprising in the slightest, Donald Trump Asks Why Would He “Allow The Debate Commission To Change The Rules” (Source: News and Guts; Twitter)

So...the 74-year-old president of the US is going to refuse to debate, play the victim, and blame Biden for fighting dirty, right? Pretty much an average day in Trump-land.

This is what happens when you are never told "No" and never given negative consequences in life.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4451 on: October 01, 2020, 02:26:07 PM »
And, DONALD TRUMP GOES FULL WHITE SUPREMACIST AT MINNESOTA CAMPAIGN RALLY (Source: Vanity Fair

From last night,

Quote
Speaking to supporters in Duluth, Minnesota, Trump warned that Joe Biden wants to “inundate” their state with refugees (read: nonwhite people) and then attacked Representative Ilhan Omar, whom he spent a good chunk of last year telling to “go back” to Somalia, despite the fact that she’s been a U.S. citizen since 2000.

"Another massive issue for Minnesota is the election of Joe Biden’s plan to inundate your state with a historic flood of refugees,” Trump told the crowd. “Biden and Crazy Bernie Sanders have agreed on a manifesto…it’s the worst thing you’ve ever seen. But they’ve pledged a 700% increase in refugees…and what about Omar…what is going on with Omar, I’ve been reading these reports for two years about how corrupt and crooked she is.... Then she tells us how to run our country, can you believe it? How the hell did Minnesota elect her? What the hell is wrong with you people? What the hell happened?”

If you still think he isn't a white supremacist, I've got a bridge for sale, maybe you should take a look.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4452 on: October 01, 2020, 03:26:42 PM »
Anyone getting outraged by Trump's behavior at the debate is missing the point. He was using a common tactic employed by many people in many situations - especially in hyper-aggressive work environments.

Trump was trying to get Biden to lose his composure. The constant interrupting, bringing up Biden's dead son in a nasty manner - all fit the playbook of someone who is trying to rile the opponent up. Add to this that Biden has a stuttering problem and you would realize exactly why this was a very rational course of action for Trump.

I was obviously impressed by the fact that Trump managed to surprise so many people, which shows he did a very good job! I was even MORE surprised that Biden did NOT lose his composure!! That is HARD! I used to have stage fright (any more than 5 people in a meeting and I would clam up - just like any other garden variety geek). It took me a long time to learn to do what Biden did in the debate - which is to keep his composure in a situation where a competitor is being deliberately nasty with an aim to advance his agenda. This is yet more remarkable because Biden's original "problem" (=stuttering) is generally a much bigger challenge than my stage fright!!

I never had much of a respect for Biden. Historically, he seems to have always managed to be on the wrong side of the history on legislative issues.

After this debate, however, my respect for him went up a few notches. I have to double check his history and see what was really up with his odd positions regarding Iraq war, the Clinton crime bill etc. etc. Maybe I was just judging him from the incorrect reference frame in that values have changed since when he came of age in politics. Or may be he was always a master negotiator who eked out the best possible results without claiming much credit for himself ("credit" is a valuable currency for political negotiations).

It will also be interesting to see what Trump does in the next debate or two. Now that he knows that you can't really rile Biden up and have him lose composure - what will he try? Interesting!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 03:29:32 PM by ctuser1 »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4453 on: October 01, 2020, 03:32:23 PM »
It will also be interesting to see what Trump does in the next debate or two. Now that he knows that you can't really rile Biden up and have him lose composure - what will he try? Interesting!

I think he'll refuse to participate because he won't want to play by the new rules and will claim victimhood and persecution. His supporters all seem to love to play the victim, too, so they'll be extra sympathetic.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4454 on: October 01, 2020, 03:41:48 PM »
I don't see why Democrats should insist on new rules!!

Let Trump be as Trumpy as possible, and yet if Biden manages to hold his own then that would work out in his favor.

Trump's antics were entertaining in 2016, now it is tiresome! Let him dig his own grave!

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4455 on: October 01, 2020, 04:31:57 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.


PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4456 on: October 01, 2020, 04:57:02 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4457 on: October 01, 2020, 05:59:29 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

Why do you think that?  I’d certainly like to, and would like to avoid whatever that last ‘debate’ was.  Over 60MM people initially tuned in - certainly some (and perhaps a large percentage) were hoping to hear more from one or both candidates.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4458 on: October 01, 2020, 07:31:24 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

Why do you think that?  I’d certainly like to, and would like to avoid whatever that last ‘debate’ was.  Over 60MM people initially tuned in - certainly some (and perhaps a large percentage) were hoping to hear more from one or both candidates.

Not the one the question was directed to, but I have a perspective close to what PKFFW wrote, hence jumping in.

I've always considered the debate to be entertainment + distraction made for the TV age back in 50s and 60s. Before that, the debate's weren't even a "thing".

I don't think policy positions delivered in a soundbite fashion has any relevance other than their entertainment value. Any soundbites delivered in these debates seem to me to be generally be inconsequential to the actual subsequent legislative actions taken. Obama was delivering a message of hope - not detailed policy proposals. For Bush, debates didn't matter anyway. I wasn't politically "aware" before that - so don't know how debates used to go.

Even if you don't grant the above premise, are there really some voters whose minds will be made up based on any real policy details (questionably) discernible from the made-for-the-tv soundbites from the debates?

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4459 on: October 01, 2020, 07:39:04 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/hope-hicks-top-trump-adviser-who-flew-him-debate-tests-n1241751

If they do the other debates, they should require Trump’s entourage to all wear masks. They were asked to do so Tuesday and refused.

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4460 on: October 01, 2020, 08:07:46 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

Why do you think that?  I’d certainly like to, and would like to avoid whatever that last ‘debate’ was.  Over 60MM people initially tuned in - certainly some (and perhaps a large percentage) were hoping to hear more from one or both candidates.
Firstly, because I think the vast majority that tune in do not care at all for what the "other guy" has to say.  They have already made up their minds about the "other guy" and believe what they want to believe and will deliberately choose to ignore any information to the contrary.

In addition I think that same vast majority aren't really interested in what "their guy" has to say either.  They are only interested in seeing "their guy" "win" and, again, will deliberately ignore any information to the contrary of that outcome too.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4461 on: October 01, 2020, 08:38:19 PM »
So 60 MM people were not interested in the debate, and had nothing better to do but turn on the debate anyway? Seems kind of odd if they were not interested, why wouldn't they watch Netflix, Hulu, Prime or South Park or something else?


Davnasty

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4462 on: October 01, 2020, 09:21:54 PM »
It is not fair to the American people not to hear what Biden has to say. If Trump acts like an idiot at all 3 debates, what is the point. People want to hear what both candidates have to say and obviously, Trump has nothing to say and is just a blathering imbecile. If Trump has some plan, it is time for him to speak his peace too. He has nothing to offer, no plans whatsoever. What people see in him is beyond me.
I'd contend it is a very small percentage of people who are actually interested in hearing what both candidates have to say.

Why do you think that?  I’d certainly like to, and would like to avoid whatever that last ‘debate’ was.  Over 60MM people initially tuned in - certainly some (and perhaps a large percentage) were hoping to hear more from one or both candidates.

Not the one the question was directed to, but I have a perspective close to what PKFFW wrote, hence jumping in.

I've always considered the debate to be entertainment + distraction made for the TV age back in 50s and 60s. Before that, the debate's weren't even a "thing".

I don't think policy positions delivered in a soundbite fashion has any relevance other than their entertainment value. Any soundbites delivered in these debates seem to me to be generally be inconsequential to the actual subsequent legislative actions taken. Obama was delivering a message of hope - not detailed policy proposals. For Bush, debates didn't matter anyway. I wasn't politically "aware" before that - so don't know how debates used to go.

Even if you don't grant the above premise, are there really some voters whose minds will be made up based on any real policy details (questionably) discernible from the made-for-the-tv soundbites from the debates?

I mostly agree, but you could argue that it gives us a chance to see if the candidates can think on their feet, maintain their composure, and speak like a leader. Those are qualities I want in a president who negotiates with other world leaders and commands the military.

That's in theory at least, I think we already had a pretty good idea of where the current candidates stand on these qualities.

As for undecided voters, it's hard to imagine many people are waffling between Biden and Trump but I could see someone who hasn't decided between a 3rd party candidate/not voting and Biden/Trump.


ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4463 on: October 01, 2020, 10:15:12 PM »
As for undecided voters, it's hard to imagine many people are waffling between Biden and Trump but I could see someone who hasn't decided between a 3rd party candidate/not voting and Biden/Trump.

Two thousand and score years ago, a bearded guy made some comments that appear very prescient to me.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1497/1497-h/1497-h.htm#link2H_4_0008
Quote
And does not tyranny spring from democracy in the same manner as democracy from oligarchy—I mean, after a sort?

How?

The good which oligarchy proposed to itself and the means by which it was maintained was excess of wealth—am I not right?

Yes.

And the insatiable desire of wealth and the neglect of all other things for the sake of money-getting was also the ruin of oligarchy?

True.

And democracy has her own good, of which the insatiable desire brings her to dissolution?

What good?

Freedom, I replied; which, as they tell you in a democracy, is the glory of the State—and that therefore in a democracy alone will the freeman of nature deign to dwell.

Yes; the saying is in every body's mouth.

I was going to observe, that the insatiable desire of this and the neglect of other things introduces the change in democracy, which occasions a demand for tyranny.
... and this discussion goes on for a while.

I'm trying to recall from memory (I read this when in college, long time ago), his primary screed against democracy (he had many favorable things to say as well, he was living in one at that time) is that it necessarily devolves into tyranny when:
1. People who haven't put in the requisite mental effort to arrive at the proper decision drives the results of the democracy. (Note that he did not take an elitist tack. A "thinking" peasant is better for democracy than a "low information" elite.)
2. People demand freedoms divorced from responsibilities.

I think this bearded guy was predicting the kind of undecided voter you speak of.

SotI

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4464 on: October 01, 2020, 10:26:11 PM »
So 60 MM people were not interested in the debate, and had nothing better to do but turn on the debate anyway? Seems kind of odd if they were not interested, why wouldn't they watch Netflix, Hulu, Prime or South Park or something else?
Maybe for the same reason that ppl watch wrestling shows or trash tv shows.
Just a thought.

Note: I am not American and did not see the TV "debate", just reading this thread here makes me feel like watching real live trash TV. Actually, sounds a lot like a typical live Jerry Springer show (that was a thing in the 90s, when I last had TV).

v8rx7guy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4465 on: October 01, 2020, 11:07:06 PM »
Trump and the FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID per his Twitter .  Cant make this shit up.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 11:11:32 PM by v8rx7guy »

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4466 on: October 01, 2020, 11:28:44 PM »
Trump and the FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID per his Twitter .  Cant make this shit up.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

I can't quite get my head around what kind of new shitshow this will spawn.

v8rx7guy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4467 on: October 01, 2020, 11:31:01 PM »
Trump and the FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID per his Twitter .  Cant make this shit up.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

I can't quite get my head around what kind of new shitshow this will spawn.

It almost sounds all too convenient... "Trump defeat the China virus before election ".  Color me a skeptic.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4468 on: October 02, 2020, 12:04:42 AM »
If he's asymptomatic or mildly so, he can still do the debates virtually. This would be good for the moderator, when one of them tries to talk over the other he can mute him, and we'll be treated to the sight of one of the old guys gesticulating wildly but mutely.

Many lolz will be had.

shuffler

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4469 on: October 02, 2020, 12:27:51 AM »
It almost sounds all too convenient... "Trump defeat the China virus before election ".  Color me a skeptic.
I want to see it.  Both b/c I don't trust him, and b/c it will be good for my soul.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4470 on: October 02, 2020, 03:45:52 AM »
I can see the Trump fans: Biological attack by ANTIFA!!!

Maybe Trump simply did not want to have another debate because his only available tactic failed?

And what happens if one candidate dies close to election? Is there a second in position that takes over for the Reps?

And what happens if Trump wins but has late damage from it that does theoretically not prevent him from doing his job but effectivly does? Like the fatigue syndrom?
It would likely be better for the world if he doesn't do anything, but I am wondering about the legal side. Can the senate (or has to) kick him out? What when the Reps don't do it?

SotI

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4471 on: October 02, 2020, 04:00:18 AM »
My uneducated guess is: if Trump is (and stays) asymptomatic, he will push the "virus is overblown" narrative. If he actually falls ill, he will "beat the virus" in the bestest, bad-assed manner ...- and lambast China (more).
Unless he dies, ofc.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4472 on: October 02, 2020, 04:02:15 AM »
I can see the Trump fans: Biological attack by ANTIFA!!!

Maybe Trump simply did not want to have another debate because his only available tactic failed?

And what happens if one candidate dies close to election? Is there a second in position that takes over for the Reps?

And what happens if Trump wins but has late damage from it that does theoretically not prevent him from doing his job but effectivly does? Like the fatigue syndrom?
It would likely be better for the world if he doesn't do anything, but I am wondering about the legal side. Can the senate (or has to) kick him out? What when the Reps don't do it?

The 25th amendment provides a clear path for the senate to remove the President - permanently or temporarily - should he prove mentally unable to continue his duties.  However, its on the senate to act, and to date the GOP has served as a defensive shield around DJT.  In that case Pence would become President.

Should a candidate die before the electoral college meets, the electors (remember - they actually vote for the President, not the people) can vote for whomever they wish.  This actually happened once in our history, when Grant was elected (Challenger Greenley died).

If a candidate dies before the general election, the party can nominate whomever they wish (and have rules in place for doing so).  Ballots already cast automatically (I believe) then count for the new nominee.

Should an elected president die before assuming power it becomes more complicated.  Many interpret the constitution as saying the rules of succession apply, so the VP-elect will then become the Prez-elect (e.g. Harris or Pence).  But it would almost certainly wind up in front of SCOTUS.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4473 on: October 02, 2020, 04:24:47 AM »
Does anyone think Trump is faking having Covid-19 because he has doubts he will be reelected? Could this be a way he weasels out and claims he is too sick to carry on duties of president and hands the reins over to Pence?

Michael Cohen predicted that Trump could possibly resign if he loses and would resign during the transition period leading to January. Cohen predicted that Pence would pardon Trump of any crimes.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-lose-2020-election-biden-polls-predictions-michael-cohen-b421047.html

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4474 on: October 02, 2020, 04:41:31 AM »
So 60 MM people were not interested in the debate, and had nothing better to do but turn on the debate anyway? Seems kind of odd if they were not interested, why wouldn't they watch Netflix, Hulu, Prime or South Park or something else?
If you are asking me I thought I was pretty clear.

Firstly, I stated I thought only a small percentage were interested in hearing what both candidates had to say.  I did NOT say that no one was interested in the debate.

Why would they tune in?  To see their guy win, to see the other guy lose, morbid curiosity, nothing better to do, popcorn entertainment.  There are plenty of reasons someone might have tuned in that have absolutely nothing to do with an actual interest in what both candidates had to say regarding the topics of debate.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4475 on: October 02, 2020, 05:04:14 AM »
So 60 MM people were not interested in the debate, and had nothing better to do but turn on the debate anyway? Seems kind of odd if they were not interested, why wouldn't they watch Netflix, Hulu, Prime or South Park or something else?
If you are asking me I thought I was pretty clear.

Firstly, I stated I thought only a small percentage were interested in hearing what both candidates had to say.  I did NOT say that no one was interested in the debate.

Why would they tune in?  To see their guy win, to see the other guy lose, morbid curiosity, nothing better to do, popcorn entertainment.  There are plenty of reasons someone might have tuned in that have absolutely nothing to do with an actual interest in what both candidates had to say regarding the topics of debate.

One thing which continues to surprise me is how many people don’t pay any attention to the election until September.  They don’t vote in primaries (let alone follow who the various contenders are) and couldn’t tell. You one difference between different candidate’s platforms.

As clichéd as it sounds, the debates are the first time many ‘get to know’ the challenger.  I can’t tell you how many people I met over the summer who knew exactly two things about Biden - 1) he’s a democrat and 2) he was VP.  These people tend to avoid political news programs and only vote in presidential years. So in normal years the debate serves as a crash-course in where each candidate stands, sound bites and all.

I think by assuming very few actually watch the debates to learn anything we are letting our own, politically active experiences bias our views.  Most Americans simply don’t pay attention to politics most of the time. It’s shocking (to us politically minded folks), but a large percentage can’t name the latest Supreme Court nominee, or a single cabinet member, or even who the VP is.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4476 on: October 02, 2020, 05:33:54 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy, the My Pillow Guy, has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 05:36:32 AM by Roadrunner53 »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4477 on: October 02, 2020, 05:37:20 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy the My Pillow Guy has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?

I’m not yet convinced he’s telling the truth about the COVID tests. He’s had a disastrous week in terms of PR, and apparently there’s a tell-all book about Melanie set for release. He lies about everything else, and this would be a convenient time for them to hunker down for a bit and play the victims to garner sympathy.

rantk81

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4478 on: October 02, 2020, 06:13:17 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy the My Pillow Guy has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?

I’m not yet convinced he’s telling the truth about the COVID tests. He’s had a disastrous week in terms of PR, and apparently there’s a tell-all book about Melanie set for release. He lies about everything else, and this would be a convenient time for them to hunker down for a bit and play the victims to garner sympathy.

While I wouldn't put it past Trump to try to lie about being positive for COVID, -- I think there are just too many other people who would know the test results, who wouldn't let that farce play out.  Think of all the former people around Trump who are now talking to the media, releasing recorded conversations, writing books, etc.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4479 on: October 02, 2020, 06:21:54 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy, the My Pillow Guy, has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?
Might be time for some bleach injection. 

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4480 on: October 02, 2020, 06:27:24 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy the My Pillow Guy has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?

I’m not yet convinced he’s telling the truth about the COVID tests. He’s had a disastrous week in terms of PR, and apparently there’s a tell-all book about Melanie set for release. He lies about everything else, and this would be a convenient time for them to hunker down for a bit and play the victims to garner sympathy.

except.... Trump has never been one to 'hunker down' when news is bad.  His MO has always been to hit back, be aggressive, etc. 
I just don't see him agreeing to fake an illness he's spent months downplaying and avoiding.

Or - looked at another way, what kind of person is most likely to contract the virus?  One that constantly attends large gatherings of largely unmasked people and who eschews the accepted social distancing guidelines?  Does that sound like anyone who's constantly in the news?
Frankly I'm a bit surprised he's gone this long before catching Covid.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4481 on: October 02, 2020, 06:43:48 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy the My Pillow Guy has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?

I’m not yet convinced he’s telling the truth about the COVID tests. He’s had a disastrous week in terms of PR, and apparently there’s a tell-all book about Melanie set for release. He lies about everything else, and this would be a convenient time for them to hunker down for a bit and play the victims to garner sympathy.

except.... Trump has never been one to 'hunker down' when news is bad.  His MO has always been to hit back, be aggressive, etc. 
I just don't see him agreeing to fake an illness he's spent months downplaying and avoiding.

Or - looked at another way, what kind of person is most likely to contract the virus?  One that constantly attends large gatherings of largely unmasked people and who eschews the accepted social distancing guidelines?  Does that sound like anyone who's constantly in the news?
Frankly I'm a bit surprised he's gone this long before catching Covid.

Donald may feel painted into a corner and knows he is floundering in the election. He can't file bankruptcy on the presidency so maybe this is his way of getting out of Dodge. He would rather blame an illness than admit defeat. He could just say he is too sick to carry on, resign to save face before losing the election.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4482 on: October 02, 2020, 06:47:33 AM »
Hmm when I first heard he twittered he and Melania had positive tests for Covid my first reaction is, he's lying. Just like I was extremely skeptical he took those injections. Plus he and Melania testing positive would be something that is potentially of national security concern; it's not going to be tweeted! But now it's being reported in the news. So maybe it's a peter and the wolves situation x100. Still don't know what to think. Is Trump capable of lying about something like this? Yes. Would the White house go along w the lie? I don't think so? Another part of me is wtf. Even if Trump acts irresponsible, why are other members of his team, family members walking around, interacting with people not wearing masks? 
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 08:07:34 AM by partgypsy »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4483 on: October 02, 2020, 06:52:29 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think it’s really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if it’s a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4484 on: October 02, 2020, 06:56:35 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think it’s really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if it’s a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

Well it's a product of us hearing a constant stream of lies for 4 years... what do you expect?

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4485 on: October 02, 2020, 06:58:58 AM »
Half of us wonder if it is a hoax because Donald has done nothing but lie for close to 4 years as president. So, when someone has a bad case of Pinocchio-itis, it is hard to believe a word that comes out of their mouth.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4486 on: October 02, 2020, 07:00:50 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think it’s really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if it’s a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

Well it's a product of us hearing a constant stream of lies for 4 years... what do you expect?

I think it was a misdirection joke.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4487 on: October 02, 2020, 07:01:56 AM »
Of course this could easily be a Trump hoax.  But I'd rather believe it's an "act of God".  Let's all keep praying for him.  :)


MAGA!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4488 on: October 02, 2020, 07:21:38 AM »
Let's all keep praying for him.

You mean continue praying for him?  I suspect that many prayers have been answered already . . .

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4489 on: October 02, 2020, 08:31:33 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think it’s really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if it’s a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word. 

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4490 on: October 02, 2020, 08:41:35 AM »
I can see the Trump fans: Biological attack by ANTIFA!!!

Maybe Trump simply did not want to have another debate because his only available tactic failed?

And what happens if one candidate dies close to election? Is there a second in position that takes over for the Reps?

And what happens if Trump wins but has late damage from it that does theoretically not prevent him from doing his job but effectivly does? Like the fatigue syndrom?
It would likely be better for the world if he doesn't do anything, but I am wondering about the legal side. Can the senate (or has to) kick him out? What when the Reps don't do it?

The 25th amendment provides a clear path for the senate to remove the President - permanently or temporarily - should he prove mentally unable to continue his duties.  However, its on the senate to act, and to date the GOP has served as a defensive shield around DJT.  In that case Pence would become President.

Should a candidate die before the electoral college meets, the electors (remember - they actually vote for the President, not the people) can vote for whomever they wish.  This actually happened once in our history, when Grant was elected (Challenger Greenley died).

If a candidate dies before the general election, the party can nominate whomever they wish (and have rules in place for doing so).  Ballots already cast automatically (I believe) then count for the new nominee.

Should an elected president die before assuming power it becomes more complicated.  Many interpret the constitution as saying the rules of succession apply, so the VP-elect will then become the Prez-elect (e.g. Harris or Pence).  But it would almost certainly wind up in front of SCOTUS.

It's actually worse than that. The 25th amendment requires a majority of the cabinet and VP to declare the President unfit. If the President refuses to step down, then it requires a 2/3 vote of both the House and Senate.

So yeah, the 25th amendment was never happening. The President would have to have a full blown stroke and go into a vegetative state for the 25th to be invoked.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4491 on: October 02, 2020, 08:48:15 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think it’s really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if it’s a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

I still come back to Occam's razor.
Which is simpler?  that - during a pandemic - a person who forgoes social distancing and comes into contact with dozens of unmasked people every day contracts the virus?   
or that he, Hope Hicks, his doctor, the first lady and who knows how many others are lying to reverse course on a disease they have spent 8+ months publicly downplaying in the hopes of gaining sympathy from a few without alienating his base that still refuse to wear makss and think this is a hoax only to somehow emerge in a couple weeks  with a new angle on Covid, all the while keeping in mind that Trump's tendency has always been to double and triple down when confronted with evidence that contradicts his statements (here:  Covid is a grave national threat).

The former is just probability of catching a highly communicable disease during a pandemic.

The latter involves coordinated lying (in itself legally dodgy), a multi-week political plan, a complete reversal of his rhetoric on Covid and a defiance of his base who overwhelmingly downplay the seriousness of Covid.

Freedom2016

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4492 on: October 02, 2020, 08:50:29 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think it’s really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if it’s a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

I still come back to Occam's razor.
Which is simpler?  that - during a pandemic - a person who forgoes social distancing and comes into contact with dozens of unmasked people every day contracts the virus?   
or that he, Hope Hicks, his doctor, the first lady and who knows how many others are lying to reverse course on a disease they have spent 8+ months publicly downplaying in the hopes of gaining sympathy from a few without alienating his base that still refuse to wear makss and think this is a hoax only to somehow emerge in a couple weeks  with a new angle on Covid, all the while keeping in mind that Trump's tendency has always been to double and triple down when confronted with evidence that contradicts his statements (here:  Covid is a grave national threat).

The former is just probability of catching a highly communicable disease during a pandemic.

The latter involves coordinated lying (in itself legally dodgy), a multi-week political plan, a complete reversal of his rhetoric on Covid and a defiance of his base who overwhelmingly downplay the seriousness of Covid.

+1000

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4493 on: October 02, 2020, 08:59:44 AM »
I can see the Trump fans: Biological attack by ANTIFA!!!

Maybe Trump simply did not want to have another debate because his only available tactic failed?

And what happens if one candidate dies close to election? Is there a second in position that takes over for the Reps?

And what happens if Trump wins but has late damage from it that does theoretically not prevent him from doing his job but effectivly does? Like the fatigue syndrom?
It would likely be better for the world if he doesn't do anything, but I am wondering about the legal side. Can the senate (or has to) kick him out? What when the Reps don't do it?

The 25th amendment provides a clear path for the senate to remove the President - permanently or temporarily - should he prove mentally unable to continue his duties.  However, its on the senate to act, and to date the GOP has served as a defensive shield around DJT.  In that case Pence would become President.

Should a candidate die before the electoral college meets, the electors (remember - they actually vote for the President, not the people) can vote for whomever they wish.  This actually happened once in our history, when Grant was elected (Challenger Greenley died).

If a candidate dies before the general election, the party can nominate whomever they wish (and have rules in place for doing so).  Ballots already cast automatically (I believe) then count for the new nominee.

Should an elected president die before assuming power it becomes more complicated.  Many interpret the constitution as saying the rules of succession apply, so the VP-elect will then become the Prez-elect (e.g. Harris or Pence).  But it would almost certainly wind up in front of SCOTUS.

It's actually worse than that. The 25th amendment requires a majority of the cabinet and VP to declare the President unfit. If the President refuses to step down, then it requires a 2/3 vote of both the House and Senate.

So yeah, the 25th amendment was never happening. The President would have to have a full blown stroke and go into a vegetative state for the 25th to be invoked.

Agreed and thanks for the additional context.  Mostly I was answering the question about what mechanism(s) exist for removing a sitting president besides impeachment.  It's such an intentionally high bar that anything short of near or complete incapacitation is unlikely to remove an elected president from office... and that's probably how it should be.  Presently at least 14 GOP senators would need to defect to forceably remove him from office, when there miiiiiight be 4 willing to do so.
One plausable scenario might be if Trump were to wind up on a ventilator, or have a stroke severe enough that he could no longer speak.  I'm not hoping for any of those, mind  you... I wouild like him soundly defeated in a fair election, losing both the popular vote and the EC 'bigly'.  Nothing short of a convincing loss by Trump will make him and his supporters yelling about everything being 'rigged.'  I mean, they will regardless (even if he wins) - but it will kinda take the sting out of their argument if Biden gets 10MM more votes and carries FL, PA, WI, MI, OH and NC.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4494 on: October 02, 2020, 09:05:20 AM »
Even with his age and other elevated risk factors there's an excellent chance he shrugs this off pretty quickly. He's tested all the time so they caught it very early and he has the best medical care available.

It could go sideways, of course, but the most likely outcome is that Trump emerges before too long saying, "See, it's not that big a deal. Certainly not worth crashing our economy over with widespread lockdowns which is all a Libtard plan to hurt my re-election campaign". If it doesn't kill him he'll try to turn it to his advantage.


 

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4495 on: October 02, 2020, 09:09:35 AM »
Even with his age and other elevated risk factors there's an excellent chance he shrugs this off pretty quickly. He's tested all the time so they caught it very early and he has the best medical care available.

It could go sideways, of course, but the most likely outcome is that Trump emerges before too long saying, "See, it's not that big a deal. Certainly not worth crashing our economy over with widespread lockdowns which is all a Libtard plan to hurt my re-election campaign". If it doesn't kill him he'll try to turn it to his advantage.


Let's hope he's burned enough bridges with the medical world.  I mean 95%+ of doctors realize 200,000 deaths is a big deal.

sixwings

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4496 on: October 02, 2020, 09:12:12 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think it’s really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if it’s a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

Sure, if it was february maybe he could do it. But there's 4 weeks until the election, he's out for 2 of them. He can't reinvent himself in 2 weeks.

Plus this always happens with Trump, maybe this is the time he privots!, maybe this is the time he becomes presidential, maybe this is the time he becomes sympathetic. Nah.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4497 on: October 02, 2020, 09:16:09 AM »
Even with his age and other elevated risk factors there's an excellent chance he shrugs this off pretty quickly. He's tested all the time so they caught it very early and he has the best medical care available.

I don't know how much early detection and the best medical care will matter here.  Per the CDC, there's no specific anti-viral treatment recommended for Covid, and early care is about minimizing  symptoms.  Yeah, treating symptoms early before they become complicating factors can be important... but to a first degree the virus is just going to run its course and there's not a hell of a lot that can prevent him from getting very sick, if that's how the virus reacts in his body.

Once a person is infected the virus can't be stopped (yet)

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4498 on: October 02, 2020, 09:30:30 AM »
Even with his age and other elevated risk factors there's an excellent chance he shrugs this off pretty quickly. He's tested all the time so they caught it very early and he has the best medical care available.

It could go sideways, of course, but the most likely outcome is that Trump emerges before too long saying, "See, it's not that big a deal. Certainly not worth crashing our economy over with widespread lockdowns which is all a Libtard plan to hurt my re-election campaign". If it doesn't kill him he'll try to turn it to his advantage.

Let's hope he's burned enough bridges with the medical world.  I mean 95%+ of doctors realize 200,000 deaths is a big deal.

"Ew" to this comment. Also Doctors help everyone, regardless of how evil the individual is. I too would like him to fully recover, and then receive an absolute historic body-slamming in the election.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 09:32:10 AM by sherr »

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4499 on: October 02, 2020, 09:31:28 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think it’s really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if it’s a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

I still come back to Occam's razor.
Which is simpler?  that - during a pandemic - a person who forgoes social distancing and comes into contact with dozens of unmasked people every day contracts the virus?   
or that he, Hope Hicks, his doctor, the first lady and who knows how many others are lying to reverse course on a disease they have spent 8+ months publicly downplaying in the hopes of gaining sympathy from a few without alienating his base that still refuse to wear makss and think this is a hoax only to somehow emerge in a couple weeks  with a new angle on Covid, all the while keeping in mind that Trump's tendency has always been to double and triple down when confronted with evidence that contradicts his statements (here:  Covid is a grave national threat).

The former is just probability of catching a highly communicable disease during a pandemic.

The latter involves coordinated lying (in itself legally dodgy), a multi-week political plan, a complete reversal of his rhetoric on Covid and a defiance of his base who overwhelmingly downplay the seriousness of Covid.

You could just as easily Occam the other way - Trump is losing after the first debate in almost every battleground state and after nominating his Supreme Court justice.  There really aren't any paths left to electoral college (much less popular vote) victory for the guy, just by holding rallies and only two debates left.  Parscale left, so his campaign is run by...  Trump?  Republicans might already be turning on him.

He's been living a 'risky' pandemic lifestyle (esp. not wearing masks) ever since this thing began and has maintained his bubble successfully, so it is LESS likely he caught the disease now than months ago. 

But a minor bout of Covid, maybe slowing him down for 6 days (aides are already calling it 'mild', with Trump continuing to work from the White House) will only help him re-boot his campaign.  Maybe he has to give up a few rallies with his committed base, that's about it.