Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 623760 times)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8250 on: June 12, 2021, 01:53:43 PM »
Why is everyone still talking about Trump? Who gives a shit about that fucking loser?

Because so many of your fellow citizens still care.  His legacy lives on.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8251 on: June 12, 2021, 06:00:36 PM »
Why is everyone still talking about Trump? Who gives a shit about that fucking loser?

Ask the GOP in all 50 states. They still very much give a shit about Trump. He’s holding rallies again.

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8252 on: June 12, 2021, 07:13:45 PM »
Why is everyone still talking about Trump? Who gives a shit about that fucking loser?
I would say because Trump is the most salient and easily refutable proponent of a counter-narrative currently available. If Trump didn't exist, it would be harder to paint Republicans as racist losers. Trump is the ultimate strawman and is also good for ratings.

Republicans also fixated for a long time on Hillary Clinton after her defeat. Both the Red and Blue teams love to flog an effigy.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8253 on: June 12, 2021, 08:16:54 PM »
Why is everyone still talking about Trump? Who gives a shit about that fucking loser?
I would say because Trump is the most salient and easily refutable proponent of a counter-narrative currently available. If Trump didn't exist, it would be harder to paint Republicans as racist losers. Trump is the ultimate strawman and is also good for ratings.

Republicans also fixated for a long time on Hillary Clinton after her defeat. Both the Red and Blue teams love to flog an effigy.
I don't see trump as a strawman. The gop is still effectively, the party of Trump. The GOP rather than censoring Trump's behavior, either look the other way or even parrot his conspiracy theories. Hillary as far as I can tell, didn't: refuse to concede, call the election illegitimate, politically pressure election official to overturn results or throw out ballots, say she was going to be president in August, I could go on..
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 08:21:05 PM by partgypsy »

lost_in_the_endless_aisle

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8254 on: June 12, 2021, 09:06:17 PM »
Why is everyone still talking about Trump? Who gives a shit about that fucking loser?
I would say because Trump is the most salient and easily refutable proponent of a counter-narrative currently available. If Trump didn't exist, it would be harder to paint Republicans as racist losers. Trump is the ultimate strawman and is also good for ratings.

Republicans also fixated for a long time on Hillary Clinton after her defeat. Both the Red and Blue teams love to flog an effigy.
I don't see trump as a strawman. The gop is still effectively, the party of Trump. The GOP rather than censoring Trump's behavior, either look the other way or even parrot his conspiracy theories. Hillary as far as I can tell, didn't: refuse to concede, call the election illegitimate, politically pressure election official to overturn results or throw out ballots, say she was going to be president in August, I could go on..
I'm not sure the GOP is still the party of Trump. I've been hearing good things about DeSantis in MAGAstan recently so get ready for that ordeal. Whether it's Al Gore, Trump, or Trump supporters--if they want to use established legal institutions to question electoral integrity, I'm fine with that. It's only a problem if we don't believe in our institutions, in which case, that lack of trust is pointing to the real problem.

And do we even care that Youtube is now a self-declared virology expert and is banning doctors from talking about Ivermectin? Raging about Trump is a luxury.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8255 on: June 13, 2021, 06:14:31 AM »
Bottom line, both trump and the GOP believe the path to victory doesn't have to do with crafting policies and laws the majority of people support but by voter suppression and disenfranchisement of the vote. Trump did that while in office (see Dejoy, states efforts such as in Texas, calling election officials) and is a current active focus of the GOP. Honestly I think liberals in general are if anything too complcent. (I would post the Washington post or NTY articles, but they are behind paywalls). It's not even just access to voting. But trying to install partisan actors and loyalists as election officials. Also at least 8 Gop ruled states to allow politicians to overrule election decisions, election officials. If these come to pass, it's going to fundamentally change the nature of our democracy.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_efforts_to_restrict_voting_following_the_2020_presidential_election
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 11:36:06 AM by partgypsy »

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8256 on: June 13, 2021, 08:22:41 AM »
Why is everyone still talking about Trump? Who gives a shit about that fucking loser?
I would say because Trump is the most salient and easily refutable proponent of a counter-narrative currently available. If Trump didn't exist, it would be harder to paint Republicans as racist losers. Trump is the ultimate strawman and is also good for ratings.

Republicans also fixated for a long time on Hillary Clinton after her defeat. Both the Red and Blue teams love to flog an effigy.
I don't see trump as a strawman. The gop is still effectively, the party of Trump. The GOP rather than censoring Trump's behavior, either look the other way or even parrot his conspiracy theories. Hillary as far as I can tell, didn't: refuse to concede, call the election illegitimate, politically pressure election official to overturn results or throw out ballots, say she was going to be president in August, I could go on..
I'm not sure the GOP is still the party of Trump. I've been hearing good things about DeSantis in MAGAstan recently so get ready for that ordeal. Whether it's Al Gore, Trump, or Trump supporters--if they want to use established legal institutions to question electoral integrity, I'm fine with that. It's only a problem if we don't believe in our institutions, in which case, that lack of trust is pointing to the real problem.

And do we even care that Youtube is now a self-declared virology expert and is banning doctors from talking about Ivermectin? Raging about Trump is a luxury.

Ehh..it's not not.  He's back on stage again.

The established legal institutions have already unquestionably determined that election integrity was fine.  The real problem is the incessant lies about it.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8257 on: June 13, 2021, 12:22:18 PM »
IMO there will be two ‘tests’ to see whether the GOP remains the Party of Trump:

1) the 2022 midterms

2) the 2024 presidential election

If the GOP fail to retake at least the house I think the GOP will turn their backs on Trump like a teenager who just caught their crush necking someone else.  Four years without any control will be too much to bear, and Biden will slowly push forward his centrist platform and dismantle the last of Trump’s legacy.
Frankly, given how narrow both houses are I find this scenario unlikely (but plausible)

The second test will be if Trump runs, and if he [again!] fails to win.  Given that he’ll be facing an incumbent who has pretty broad support (right now), and Trump’s never been above water since the month after his inauguration I think it would be foolhearty to nominate Trump again.  But his core will do it.  no then we’ll get Biden v. Trump part II.    I question whether i) challenger Trump will get the votes he did before and ii) whether he’ll come anywhere close to narrowing his popular vote loss - remember, it got much worse for him the second time around.

Demographics are not in the GOP’s favor if they stick with Trump.  The wildcard will be the economy.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8258 on: June 13, 2021, 02:56:37 PM »
82's pretty old to run for president.   But then, so is 78.   Hopefully Biden's ancestors were long lived...

I wonder though.   Listening to Trump's latest speeches, his mental abilities seem to be declining rapidly.    Has anyone else noticed this?   I've seen it in  my grandmother, my mother, my FIL and my MIL, it's pretty clear that he's starting to suffer from some form of dementia.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8259 on: June 13, 2021, 03:39:48 PM »
Trump's speeches are more deranged and just repeat the same 3 stories over and over; Biden tends to lose his train of thought more often. Though, I'd say now that Biden is in office and can stick to only making scripted statements, he looks much more mentally capable than Trump. That wasn't always true during the debates and primary.

They're honestly both too mentally declined to run in 2024 imo.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8260 on: June 13, 2021, 03:53:27 PM »
I’ve seen Biden speak in person twice, once largely unscripted. He does better than I could. People underestimate how difficult speaking in public and while being recorded and scrutinized is.

To me Trump just sounds less enthusiastic than he did while President or at a candidate in 2016. But he still talks non stop for an hour +, which is also not an easy thing to do,

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8261 on: June 13, 2021, 04:13:57 PM »
I’ve seen Biden speak in person twice, once largely unscripted. He does better than I could. People underestimate how difficult speaking in public and while being recorded and scrutinized is.


I agree. I honestly find it sort of silly that people try to insist that Biden is addled.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8262 on: June 13, 2021, 04:56:36 PM »
I’ve seen Biden speak in person twice, once largely unscripted. He does better than I could. People underestimate how difficult speaking in public and while being recorded and scrutinized is.

To me Trump just sounds less enthusiastic than he did while President or at a candidate in 2016. But he still talks non stop for an hour +, which is also not an easy thing to do,

Biden is also compensating for a significant stutter. People always forget that he’s been battling a speech pathology for nearly 8 decades.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8263 on: June 13, 2021, 05:34:28 PM »
I’ve seen Biden speak in person twice, once largely unscripted. He does better than I could. People underestimate how difficult speaking in public and while being recorded and scrutinized is.

To me Trump just sounds less enthusiastic than he did while President or at a candidate in 2016. But he still talks non stop for an hour +, which is also not an easy thing to do,

Biden is also compensating for a significant stutter. People always forget that he’s been battling a speech pathology for nearly 8 decades.

The hallmark of cognitive decline is always comparing one individual to their younger self.  As you said, Biden has struggled with stuttering.  He’s also infamous for going off-topic, rambling, and occasionally saying something a bit bone-headed.  His ‘speaking gaffs’ were a major topic in 2008.  Now suddenly they are “evidence of cognitive decline”. Malarkey! If anything Biden’s 2020 campaign was remarkably void of major gaffs, and he remains in good control of his stutter. He still goes off-script all the time, but that’s just who he is.

FWIW To me Trump sounds about the same as he did 10-20 years ago as well.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8264 on: June 13, 2021, 09:25:23 PM »
I’ve seen Biden speak in person twice, once largely unscripted. He does better than I could. People underestimate how difficult speaking in public and while being recorded and scrutinized is.

To me Trump just sounds less enthusiastic than he did while President or at a candidate in 2016. But he still talks non stop for an hour +, which is also not an easy thing to do,

Biden is also compensating for a significant stutter. People always forget that he’s been battling a speech pathology for nearly 8 decades.

The hallmark of cognitive decline is always comparing one individual to their younger self.  As you said, Biden has struggled with stuttering.  He’s also infamous for going off-topic, rambling, and occasionally saying something a bit bone-headed.  His ‘speaking gaffs’ were a major topic in 2008.  Now suddenly they are “evidence of cognitive decline”. Malarkey! If anything Biden’s 2020 campaign was remarkably void of major gaffs, and he remains in good control of his stutter. He still goes off-script all the time, but that’s just who he is.

FWIW To me Trump sounds about the same as he did 10-20 years ago as well.

You can also tell though that they were limiting the number of appearances that he was making. There was a long stint of time where the only campaigning he was doing were scripted videos out of his house in Delaware. He's not completely gone mentally obviously, but he's not as sharp, and he's a bit slower.

That's not to say he's not doing well for his age or that he's unfit. I'm just saying that based on his current status, he's obviously using up his last years to be there. The presidency is draining enough for a 40 year old; a 78 year old though? I don't know any 78 year old that could keep going that hard and that long and actually perform their job in a meaningful way. So 82, yeah, even the healthiest 82 year olds I know are the ones that put a lot of energy and attention towards their health and don't work that kind of job. Even Bernie, as sharp as he is, I don't think he would've been able to do a 2024 run either.

Does anyone know any 85 year old that could navigate modern politics? It's just... too old no matter how healthy you are. Now if it's Trump v Biden again, no doubt, I'll take the old guy, but I hope Biden will step aside. Or at least run then, wink wink, step down a year or 2 in.

I'd say that Trump has also gotten noticeably worse over his presidency. What he said back in 2016 seemed pointed, well-messaged, and somewhat thought-out. I thought back in 2016, there was a good chance that Trump wasn't a buffoon, but a rather savvy politician. But his speeches now? I don't know. It's like he's such a narcissist, that 2020 broke his brain. His ego couldn't handle the lose, and it traumatized him sending him into a mental spiral.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8265 on: June 14, 2021, 01:23:24 AM »
The trick to being old and presidential is to not care about the job and just be a figure head. Trust your assistants, and your party members. Say what your told to say, but otherwise keep your mouth shut.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8266 on: June 14, 2021, 01:39:01 AM »
The trick to being old and presidential is to not care about the job and just be a figure head. Trust your assistants, and your party members. Say what your told to say, but otherwise keep your mouth shut.

Sounds more and more like the role of a king in a constitutional monarchy.   :)

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8267 on: June 14, 2021, 03:51:21 AM »
I’ve seen Biden speak in person twice, once largely unscripted. He does better than I could. People underestimate how difficult speaking in public and while being recorded and scrutinized is.

To me Trump just sounds less enthusiastic than he did while President or at a candidate in 2016. But he still talks non stop for an hour +, which is also not an easy thing to do,

Biden is also compensating for a significant stutter. People always forget that he’s been battling a speech pathology for nearly 8 decades.

The hallmark of cognitive decline is always comparing one individual to their younger self.  As you said, Biden has struggled with stuttering.  He’s also infamous for going off-topic, rambling, and occasionally saying something a bit bone-headed.  His ‘speaking gaffs’ were a major topic in 2008.  Now suddenly they are “evidence of cognitive decline”. Malarkey! If anything Biden’s 2020 campaign was remarkably void of major gaffs, and he remains in good control of his stutter. He still goes off-script all the time, but that’s just who he is.

FWIW To me Trump sounds about the same as he did 10-20 years ago as well.

You can also tell though that they were limiting the number of appearances that he was making. There was a long stint of time where the only campaigning he was doing were scripted videos out of his house in Delaware. He's not completely gone mentally obviously, but he's not as sharp, and he's a bit slower.

That's not to say he's not doing well for his age or that he's unfit. I'm just saying that based on his current status, he's obviously using up his last years to be there. The presidency is draining enough for a 40 year old; a 78 year old though? I don't know any 78 year old that could keep going that hard and that long and actually perform their job in a meaningful way. So 82, yeah, even the healthiest 82 year olds I know are the ones that put a lot of energy and attention towards their health and don't work that kind of job. Even Bernie, as sharp as he is, I don't think he would've been able to do a 2024 run either.

Does anyone know any 85 year old that could navigate modern politics? It's just... too old no matter how healthy you are. Now if it's Trump v Biden again, no doubt, I'll take the old guy, but I hope Biden will step aside. Or at least run then, wink wink, step down a year or 2 in.

I'd say that Trump has also gotten noticeably worse over his presidency. What he said back in 2016 seemed pointed, well-messaged, and somewhat thought-out. I thought back in 2016, there was a good chance that Trump wasn't a buffoon, but a rather savvy politician. But his speeches now? I don't know. It's like he's such a narcissist, that 2020 broke his brain. His ego couldn't handle the lose, and it traumatized him sending him into a mental spiral.

Given the timing of the 2020 campaign with respect to the COVID-19 pandemic, I can’t fault Biden for campaigning in place, especially earlier in the year. I wish Trump had done a lot more of the same.

Otherwise, I agree with all of this. I assumed that Biden intended to be a 1-term president and ran because he was the best (possibly the only) chance to prevent a second Trump term.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8268 on: June 14, 2021, 04:13:51 AM »

I assumed that Biden intended to be a 1-term president and ran because he was the best (possibly the only) chance to prevent a second Trump term.
Agreed.  Anything other than a straight white man who was a moderate Democrat and Trump would probably have won again.

Too much misogyny, homophobia and racism in the world still, plus 40 years of right-wing propaganda that government is bad.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8269 on: June 14, 2021, 06:15:44 AM »
Biden has already stated he's going to do one term as president. If trump is nominated by the GOP it will be democratic nominee (as yet not stated, possibly Kamala) vs trump.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8270 on: June 14, 2021, 10:36:16 AM »
*checks calendar* Nope, not April 1.

Fox News host Kayleigh McEnany says she ‘never lied’ as Trump press secretary (Guardian)

At least she didn't seek a job with an actual news outlet.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8271 on: June 14, 2021, 10:40:53 AM »
*checks calendar* Nope, not April 1.

Fox News host Kayleigh McEnany says she ‘never lied’ as Trump press secretary (Guardian)

At least she didn't seek a job with an actual news outlet.

At least she's continuing on with the same sort of open truthfulness we all remember her for from her time in the White House.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8272 on: June 15, 2021, 03:10:35 PM »
Trump's Mini-Me, Texas Governor Greg Abbott, has been busy traveling to the border to talk about how migrants are flooding in, that he's going to build a wall (somehow spending $46M per mile without it costing Texas a penny), and shutting down alleged voter fraud (in the form of allowing a federal judge to toss out election results).  Meanwhile, folks can't even watch his spectacle on TV because the power grid keeps cutting out - #AbbottFailedTexas trends again, as Texans brace for potential power outages amid heat wave

So ... tired ... of winning ...

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8273 on: June 15, 2021, 03:33:53 PM »
Trump's Mini-Me, Texas Governor Greg Abbott, has been busy traveling to the border to talk about how migrants are flooding in, that he's going to build a wall (somehow spending $46M per mile without it costing Texas a penny), and shutting down alleged voter fraud (in the form of allowing a federal judge to toss out election results).  Meanwhile, folks can't even watch his spectacle on TV because the power grid keeps cutting out - #AbbottFailedTexas trends again, as Texans brace for potential power outages amid heat wave

So ... tired ... of winning ...

Husband is in TX on business this week. A couple of months ago, he floated the idea of us relocating so he could work at the company location there. Once I stopped laughing, I informed him that I couldn't imagine any circumstance that would make me want to live in TX. MI has myriad problems, but at least we have the Democrat trifecta of Gretchen Whitmer, Dana Nessel, and Jocelyn Benson protecting the voters from the Michigan GQP. Although that might not be true after next year if the GQP refuses to certify the 2022 elections. Lord help us.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8274 on: June 15, 2021, 04:19:46 PM »
Seems Trump was pressuring the DOJ  to overturn the election. Only Trump could out-Nixon “Tricky Dick”.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8275 on: June 15, 2021, 05:51:52 PM »
Trump's Mini-Me, Texas Governor Greg Abbott, has been busy traveling to the border to talk about how migrants are flooding in, that he's going to build a wall (somehow spending $46M per mile without it costing Texas a penny), and shutting down alleged voter fraud (in the form of allowing a federal judge to toss out election results).  Meanwhile, folks can't even watch his spectacle on TV because the power grid keeps cutting out - #AbbottFailedTexas trends again, as Texans brace for potential power outages amid heat wave

So ... tired ... of winning ...

Husband is in TX on business this week. A couple of months ago, he floated the idea of us relocating so he could work at the company location there. Once I stopped laughing, I informed him that I couldn't imagine any circumstance that would make me want to live in TX. MI has myriad problems, but at least we have the Democrat trifecta of Gretchen Whitmer, Dana Nessel, and Jocelyn Benson protecting the voters from the Michigan GQP. Although that might not be true after next year if the GQP refuses to certify the 2022 elections. Lord help us.
Well you could look at it as helping to turn Texas blue with 2 more votes ;)

One of my co workers just moved to Texas last week, after seeing how little they paid for their house I have to admit that I spent a few hours of looking at Zillow.

Then I remembered it was Texas....


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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8276 on: June 16, 2021, 08:04:48 AM »
I spotted some in the wild.  We are having an audit done at work, and the auditor is in the chem lab and chatting with one of the senior level people in the company.  They are ranting on and on about Trump, and how it was a witch hunt that started before he ever even took office, "they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies".  And they are going on about supporting the blue, and "all lives matter" and recounting stories in the media about protestors gathering and throwing soup cans.  "If you don't want to be shot by the cops then just listen to what the cops say, simple". 

Dead, innocent, minority victims of police brutality:



Not directly a Trump outrage, but I'm not making a new thread just for this, and I feel like I need to vent because it's so enraging to hear these idiots ranting.  It's like fox news but IRL.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8277 on: June 16, 2021, 08:34:07 AM »
"they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies". 

They (the GOP) had majority control of the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House for the first two years.  They had majority control of government (all but the House) for four years.

Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8278 on: June 16, 2021, 08:39:33 AM »
"they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies". 

They (the GOP) had majority control of the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House for the first two years.  They had majority control of government (all but the House) for four years.

Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

but but but the Do Nothing Democrats obstructed everything!!!!111

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8279 on: June 16, 2021, 08:40:40 AM »
Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

Did the Trump administration have any stated policies when elected?  I don't remember this being the case.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8280 on: June 16, 2021, 08:42:23 AM »
Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

Did the Trump administration have any stated policies when elected?  I don't remember this being the case.


former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8281 on: June 16, 2021, 08:43:45 AM »
"they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies". 

They (the GOP) had majority control of the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House for the first two years.  They had majority control of government (all but the House) for four years.

Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.
They put all their discipline into appointing far-rightwing judges, the payback for which may well come in legal decisions on the elections of 2022 and 2024.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8282 on: June 16, 2021, 08:47:20 AM »
We all lived through the same nightmare and know Trump is bullshit and anyone that supports him is bullshit.  I'm not attempting to ignite any legitimate discussion about Trump or his policies, or his lack of coherent policies, just commiserating with you all while I have to listen to these blow hard neanderthals discuss their political opinions while auditing my lab.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8283 on: June 16, 2021, 08:52:29 AM »
Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

Did the Trump administration have any stated policies when elected?  I don't remember this being the case.



And getting rid of the ACA. I notice it being called ACA more and more lately, but that might be me being a bit isolated. I am sure ranting relatives will fix that while we are on vacation.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8284 on: June 16, 2021, 09:03:28 AM »
Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

Did the Trump administration have any stated policies when elected?  I don't remember this being the case.



And getting rid of the ACA. I notice it being called ACA more and more lately, but that might be me being a bit isolated. I am sure ranting relatives will fix that while we are on vacation.

Those were the 2016 platform objectives. The GQP didn't bother to update their platform for the 2020 national convention. They have zero interest in actual governance; that would require them to work for their salaries. Bunch of freeloaders on the taxpayers' dime.

Tyler durden

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8285 on: June 16, 2021, 10:45:56 AM »
"they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies". 

well did they?

They (the GOP) had majority control of the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House for the first two years.  They had majority control of government (all but the House) for four years.

Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

That sword cuts both ways. Biden and the Democrats sit on that same majority today. If Biden can't get things done, you then have to chalk it up to his failed discipline with governance. Or simply try and change the rules of the game. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-17/democrats-eye-filibuster-reform-with-support-for-elimination-elusive

Or is this just the new political reality where both sides compromise on nothing and it makes it severely difficult to get anything done from either party. maybe time to bring back earmarks?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8286 on: June 16, 2021, 10:52:32 AM »
"they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies". 

well did they?

They (the GOP) had majority control of the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House for the first two years.  They had majority control of government (all but the House) for four years.

Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

That sword cuts both ways. Biden and the Democrats sit on that same majority today. If Biden can't get things done, you then have to chalk it up to his failed discipline with governance. Or simply try and change the rules of the game. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-17/democrats-eye-filibuster-reform-with-support-for-elimination-elusive

Or is this just the new political reality where both sides compromise on nothing and it makes it severely difficult to get anything done from either party. maybe time to bring back earmarks?

That's kind of my point.  Biden seems to be moving at a much faster clip than Trump was ever able to. His first 100 days certainly outpaced Trump's.  It will be interesting to see if that will continue through next year.

Now whether you perceive that as a good or a bad thing depends very much on your individual opinions of each accomplishment.

Tyler durden

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8287 on: June 16, 2021, 10:58:33 AM »
"they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies". 

well did they?

They (the GOP) had majority control of the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House for the first two years.  They had majority control of government (all but the House) for four years.

Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

That sword cuts both ways. Biden and the Democrats sit on that same majority today. If Biden can't get things done, you then have to chalk it up to his failed discipline with governance. Or simply try and change the rules of the game. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-17/democrats-eye-filibuster-reform-with-support-for-elimination-elusive

Or is this just the new political reality where both sides compromise on nothing and it makes it severely difficult to get anything done from either party. maybe time to bring back earmarks?

That's kind of my point.  Biden seems to be moving at a much faster clip than Trump was ever able to. His first 100 days certainly outpaced Trump's.  It will be interesting to see if that will continue through next year.

Now whether you perceive that as a good or a bad thing depends very much on your individual opinions of each accomplishment.

The lens I'll look at it through is more of the actual governance mentioned above. Executive orders and undoing a bunch of immigration policies trump had in place I dont view the same way. Thats just me, my perspective. I am most interested to see what he passes through congress. That is how I view governance.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8288 on: June 16, 2021, 11:07:08 AM »
"they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies". 

well did they?

They (the GOP) had majority control of the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House for the first two years.  They had majority control of government (all but the House) for four years.

Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

That sword cuts both ways. Biden and the Democrats sit on that same majority today. If Biden can't get things done, you then have to chalk it up to his failed discipline with governance. Or simply try and change the rules of the game. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-17/democrats-eye-filibuster-reform-with-support-for-elimination-elusive

Or is this just the new political reality where both sides compromise on nothing and it makes it severely difficult to get anything done from either party. maybe time to bring back earmarks?

That's kind of my point.  Biden seems to be moving at a much faster clip than Trump was ever able to. His first 100 days certainly outpaced Trump's.  It will be interesting to see if that will continue through next year.

Now whether you perceive that as a good or a bad thing depends very much on your individual opinions of each accomplishment.

The lens I'll look at it through is more of the actual governance mentioned above. Executive orders and undoing a bunch of immigration policies trump had in place I dont view the same way. Thats just me, my perspective. I am most interested to see what he passes through congress. That is how I view governance.

Fair enough - many of Trump's policies were EOs that had little permanence. 
The American Rescue Plan is certainly a massive piece of legislation that's going to impact so many different aspects of our society and economy. Whether those impacts are good or bad will take years to objectively assess - and of course partisans will fights for their viewpoint.

Interestingly, it is pretty similar in cost to Trump's major legislative change, the TCJA.

It seems like some sort of infrastructure bill will pass by this fall - likely far smaller than Biden's original ask but probably close to the $1T/10yr mark.

Boll weevil

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8289 on: June 16, 2021, 11:21:36 AM »
"they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies". 

well did they?

They (the GOP) had majority control of the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House for the first two years.  They had majority control of government (all but the House) for four years.

Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

That sword cuts both ways. Biden and the Democrats sit on that same majority today. If Biden can't get things done, you then have to chalk it up to his failed discipline with governance. Or simply try and change the rules of the game. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-17/democrats-eye-filibuster-reform-with-support-for-elimination-elusive

Or is this just the new political reality where both sides compromise on nothing and it makes it severely difficult to get anything done from either party. maybe time to bring back earmarks?

Technically, they don’t have the senate. Although the VP can break ties on votes that go to the entire senate, most everything has to go through various committees first, and those are evenly split. As a result, they have to get the buy-in of at least one Republican. The Republicans had an actual majority, and could get stuff past the committees with zero Democrat support.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8290 on: June 16, 2021, 11:27:28 AM »


Technically, they don’t have the senate. Although the VP can break ties on votes that go to the entire senate, most everything has to go through various committees first, and those are evenly split. As a result, they have to get the buy-in of at least one Republican. The Republicans had an actual majority, and could get stuff past the committees with zero Democrat support.

Good point. Trump has a significantly larger advantage in the Senate for all four years.

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8291 on: June 16, 2021, 11:42:35 AM »
That sword cuts both ways. Biden and the Democrats sit on that same majority today. If Biden can't get things done, you then have to chalk it up to his failed discipline with governance. Or simply try and change the rules of the game. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-17/democrats-eye-filibuster-reform-with-support-for-elimination-elusive

Or is this just the new political reality where both sides compromise on nothing and it makes it severely difficult to get anything done from either party. maybe time to bring back earmarks?

As others have mentioned, this is objectively false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/115th_United_States_Congress

The GOP Senate always had an advantage.  There were no time periods where the Democrats had a majority and there were no time periods where the Senate was evenly split during the Trump presidency.

Tyler durden

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8292 on: June 16, 2021, 11:50:36 AM »
That sword cuts both ways. Biden and the Democrats sit on that same majority today. If Biden can't get things done, you then have to chalk it up to his failed discipline with governance. Or simply try and change the rules of the game. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-17/democrats-eye-filibuster-reform-with-support-for-elimination-elusive

Or is this just the new political reality where both sides compromise on nothing and it makes it severely difficult to get anything done from either party. maybe time to bring back earmarks?

As others have mentioned, this is objectively false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/115th_United_States_Congress

The GOP Senate always had an advantage.  There were no time periods where the Democrats had a majority and there were no time periods where the Senate was evenly split during the Trump presidency.

yeah your right here. Trump could pass things along party lines with zero buy in from Democrats. I guess I view it the same way now with Biden. They can pass things along party lines, with VP as tie breaker. But your right, they dont have the technical majority in the senate, no argument from me there.

Tyler durden

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8293 on: June 16, 2021, 11:54:06 AM »
"they never even gave him a chance to implement his policies". 

well did they?

They (the GOP) had majority control of the House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House for the first two years.  They had majority control of government (all but the House) for four years.

Failure to implement his policies rests solely on the Trump Administration's failure to be disciplined with their governance.

That sword cuts both ways. Biden and the Democrats sit on that same majority today. If Biden can't get things done, you then have to chalk it up to his failed discipline with governance. Or simply try and change the rules of the game. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-17/democrats-eye-filibuster-reform-with-support-for-elimination-elusive

Or is this just the new political reality where both sides compromise on nothing and it makes it severely difficult to get anything done from either party. maybe time to bring back earmarks?

That's kind of my point.  Biden seems to be moving at a much faster clip than Trump was ever able to. His first 100 days certainly outpaced Trump's.  It will be interesting to see if that will continue through next year.

Now whether you perceive that as a good or a bad thing depends very much on your individual opinions of each accomplishment.

The lens I'll look at it through is more of the actual governance mentioned above. Executive orders and undoing a bunch of immigration policies trump had in place I dont view the same way. Thats just me, my perspective. I am most interested to see what he passes through congress. That is how I view governance.

Fair enough - many of Trump's policies were EOs that had little permanence. 
The American Rescue Plan is certainly a massive piece of legislation that's going to impact so many different aspects of our society and economy. Whether those impacts are good or bad will take years to objectively assess - and of course partisans will fights for their viewpoint.

Interestingly, it is pretty similar in cost to Trump's major legislative change, the TCJA.

It seems like some sort of infrastructure bill will pass by this fall - likely far smaller than Biden's original ask but probably close to the $1T/10yr mark.

I hope something does pass. I feel like this is an area that could maybe start to break the cycle a little bit. Biden is a statesmen, he seems to want to negotiate from what I've been reading/hearing.  Neither party gets all they want, they both can do some good for the citizens. It's easy and im sure tempting for each side to just throw their hands up, walk away and run to the media and blame the other side. Maybe there are enough in the middle to get this thing done... maybe.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8294 on: June 16, 2021, 12:13:03 PM »
I think the spirit of bipartisanship is undermined by statements like these from McConnell:
Quote
“One hundred percent of my focus is standing up to this administration,” the Kentucky Republican said at a press conference in his home state Wednesday, in response to questions about infighting among House Republicans. “What we have in the United States Senate is total unity from Susan Collins to Ted Cruz in opposition to what the new Biden administration is trying to do to this country,” he said, referring to the senators from Maine and Texas.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mcconnell-says-100-of-his-focus-is-on-blocking-biden-agenda-11620257305

or:
Quote
“So I think it’s highly unlikely. In fact, no, I don’t think either party if it controlled, if it were different from the president would confirm a supreme court nominee in the middle of an election. What was different in 2020 was we were of the same party as the president. And that’s why we went ahead with it.”
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jun/14/mitch-mcconnell-supreme-court-stephen-breyer

Or from 2010:
Quote
"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” -

or:
Quote
In December 2020, U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vowed to block Democratic legislative efforts, saying, "Even if I feel it's a good bill. They shall have no victories."

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8295 on: June 16, 2021, 12:24:07 PM »
Or
Quote
"I want to make Joe Biden a one-half-term president. And I want to do that by making sure they no longer have House, Senate, White House,"

https://news.yahoo.com/no-3-senate-republican-john-221802583.html

Tyler durden

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8296 on: June 16, 2021, 12:25:18 PM »
I think the spirit of bipartisanship is undermined by statements like these from McConnell:
Quote
“One hundred percent of my focus is standing up to this administration,” the Kentucky Republican said at a press conference in his home state Wednesday, in response to questions about infighting among House Republicans. “What we have in the United States Senate is total unity from Susan Collins to Ted Cruz in opposition to what the new Biden administration is trying to do to this country,” he said, referring to the senators from Maine and Texas.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mcconnell-says-100-of-his-focus-is-on-blocking-biden-agenda-11620257305

or:
Quote
“So I think it’s highly unlikely. In fact, no, I don’t think either party if it controlled, if it were different from the president would confirm a supreme court nominee in the middle of an election. What was different in 2020 was we were of the same party as the president. And that’s why we went ahead with it.”
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jun/14/mitch-mcconnell-supreme-court-stephen-breyer

Or from 2010:
Quote
"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” -

or:
Quote
In December 2020, U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vowed to block Democratic legislative efforts, saying, "Even if I feel it's a good bill. They shall have no victories."

I agree. Comments like that poison the well. And I'm going to refrain from brining up a few thousand quotes from Democrats before trump was even in office, saying the same thing. Or talking impeachment before he was sworn in.

On the optimist side from the WSJ article.

Democrats passed a $1.9 trillion Covid-19 relief bill with no Republican support earlier this year and have proposed more than $4 trillion in additional spending on infrastructure, antipoverty and education proposals. Republicans have said they are willing to engage in talks on a narrow infrastructure plan focused on roads, bridges and broadband, and some GOP lawmakers outlined a $568 billion infrastructure framework. But they have rejected Mr. Biden’s more extensive spending plans.

That is what the beginning of compromise looks like.


OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8297 on: June 16, 2021, 12:32:44 PM »
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-georgia-threats/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Quote
Trump spokesman Jason Miller did not respond to Reuters’ questions about the ongoing harassment of election workers, including why Trump has not forcefully denounced the torrent of threats being made in his name.

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8298 on: June 16, 2021, 12:46:46 PM »
I think the spirit of bipartisanship is undermined by statements like these from McConnell:
Quote
“One hundred percent of my focus is standing up to this administration,” the Kentucky Republican said at a press conference in his home state Wednesday, in response to questions about infighting among House Republicans. “What we have in the United States Senate is total unity from Susan Collins to Ted Cruz in opposition to what the new Biden administration is trying to do to this country,” he said, referring to the senators from Maine and Texas.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mcconnell-says-100-of-his-focus-is-on-blocking-biden-agenda-11620257305

or:
Quote
“So I think it’s highly unlikely. In fact, no, I don’t think either party if it controlled, if it were different from the president would confirm a supreme court nominee in the middle of an election. What was different in 2020 was we were of the same party as the president. And that’s why we went ahead with it.”
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jun/14/mitch-mcconnell-supreme-court-stephen-breyer

Or from 2010:
Quote
"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” -

or:
Quote
In December 2020, U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vowed to block Democratic legislative efforts, saying, "Even if I feel it's a good bill. They shall have no victories."

I agree. Comments like that poison the well. And I'm going to refrain from brining up a few thousand quotes from Democrats before trump was even in office, saying the same thing. Or talking impeachment before he was sworn in.

On the optimist side from the WSJ article.

Democrats passed a $1.9 trillion Covid-19 relief bill with no Republican support earlier this year and have proposed more than $4 trillion in additional spending on infrastructure, antipoverty and education proposals. Republicans have said they are willing to engage in talks on a narrow infrastructure plan focused on roads, bridges and broadband, and some GOP lawmakers outlined a $568 billion infrastructure framework. But they have rejected Mr. Biden’s more extensive spending plans.

That is what the beginning of compromise looks like.

"I'm not going to engage in whataboutism, but I want you to know I considered it."

It's funny, isn't it, how the GOP ramrods through whatever the fuck they want when they hold a majority -- refuse to confirm SCOTUS for a Democrat president, and then slam through a nomination while an election is literally in progress -- but as soon as they lose the majority they start crying about "compromise" and "bipartisanship."

Worthless hypocrites.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 12:48:25 PM by JLee »

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #8299 on: June 16, 2021, 01:30:15 PM »
and when given the chance they won't compromise or participate in bipartisanship! It's almost like they are complete hypocrites acting in bad faith