Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 444461 times)

ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5750 on: November 23, 2020, 04:22:16 PM »
That is good news!

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5751 on: November 23, 2020, 04:30:48 PM »
The GSA has informed Biden that transition can begin.  Hallelujah!

God, finally! Between this and my state certifying the election, it feels like time for a celebration. Which will of course be at home because COVID, but whatever.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5752 on: November 23, 2020, 04:50:19 PM »
I wouldn't say it is a system of kings, but more a system of wealth and power. Becoming president is not the only way you can attain immunity from justice. Maybe the greatest example of the system working as intended as is O.J. Simpson. Here is a man who came from humble beginnings to who went on to obtain such significant status and power that he was able to get away with murder*.

*My personal opinion, proven innocent in criminal court, yadda yadda yadda.

He was not "proven innocent", the government just failed to prove him guilty. Which are very different things, and relevant to the current conversation. No one is ever declared "innocent" by a court of law, they are declared "not guilty". It's not just semantics.

I think in some countries there are "innocent" verdicts as well as "not guilty".  I wonder if that works better than the binary approach the US has.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5753 on: November 23, 2020, 05:39:41 PM »
I'm not sure how helpful it has been for others, but seeing the difference between the 'court of public opinion' vs. the actual courts has helped me feel as though there is still hope for a return to 'normalcy'.  Giuliani gets repeatedly laughed out of the court room, but somehow manages to rally Trump supporters with these media circuses / rallies

I feel as though there is an important lesson here that is not sinking in with the electorate though.  I'm already beginning to worry about 2024...

Do you think that maybe people who don't trust the news also don't trust the court system?  At least 100%?  There is bias.  Otherwise there wouldn't be so much interest in packing the supreme court.

As I see it, right now Trump and his core supporters don’t trust the vote tallies (without evidence), they do not trust the media -particularly the traditional centrist ones - they no longer accept the ruling of the courts, they do not believe international observers, or government watchdog agencies or independent experts. Basically, they refute any narrative which contradicts what they believe is true, even absent any real evidence. It’s confirmation bias on steroids.

If they cannot trust any of the institutions specifically there to ensure the rules are observed for fair and free elections, what can be done?
I am still hoping for Parler in real life.  They will all go start their own country where they can live their consipracies and not trust any institution they rely on for their daily survival.

I'd forgotten all about Parler.  It's crazy what goes on in quiet corners of the internet...

What still worries me is that a significant portion of these Trump radicals get organized enough to ramp up domestic terrorism.  Trump certainly isn't going to talk them down and he still has 2 solid months to fill their minds with the narrative that their country has been stolen from them, that their 2nd amendment rights will be suspended leaving them 'helpless', etc...

Teasing a 2024 run, running a news network, running the RNC...militia demigod next?

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5754 on: November 23, 2020, 06:36:17 PM »
The GSA has informed Biden that transition can begin.  Hallelujah!

God, finally! Between this and my state certifying the election, it feels like time for a celebration. Which will of course be at home because COVID, but whatever.

So it actually was inevitable!  I was beginning to think it would drag out until the very, very last possible moment.  All the while, even though nothing seemed to be going his way, I had a nagging feeling that somehow, someway, Trump would find a way to inflict a mortal wound on democracy in order to save himself.  It's a nasty feeling, thinking that a desperate President Trump could gleefully destroy the country (possibly even start a war) if it benefitted him sufficiently.  I think I'm going to sleep a little easier tonight, for the first time in years!

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5755 on: November 23, 2020, 06:38:53 PM »
Credit where credit is due, he is good at making people part with their money. Like every con man, it even makes people happy.

He can even convince people that a loss is a win. "He's playing 5d 6d chess!"

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5756 on: November 23, 2020, 07:09:42 PM »
The popular narrative is: Of course he’ll run in 2024 ... and is the favorite to be the GOP nominee.

But... there’s a wide field of 2024 hopefuls, including Cotton, Rubio, Lee, Pompeo and Cruz.  Each are shrewd politicians in their own right.  I expect a fair bit of backstabbing to go on, much of it behind the scenes, and all of them with plenty of ammo. Unflattering leaks about his presidency, a rush to secure donors and voters, etc.  Modest gains in the house in 2020 aside , they are calculating enough to realize the Trump presidency has made the GOP future harder, with GA and AZ now in play, and NC and TX uncomfortably close.

In other words - it’ll be a four year long fight for party control, with Trump being the common threat to each of their ambitions. 

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5757 on: November 23, 2020, 07:43:03 PM »
The GSA has informed Biden that transition can begin.  Hallelujah!

God, finally! Between this and my state certifying the election, it feels like time for a celebration. Which will of course be at home because COVID, but whatever.

So it actually was inevitable!  I was beginning to think it would drag out until the very, very last possible moment.  All the while, even though nothing seemed to be going his way, I had a nagging feeling that somehow, someway, Trump would find a way to inflict a mortal wound on democracy in order to save himself.  It's a nasty feeling, thinking that a desperate President Trump could gleefully destroy the country (possibly even start a war) if it benefitted him sufficiently.  I think I'm going to sleep a little easier tonight, for the first time in years!

The movie isn't over.  Everything is conveniently and suspiciously wrapped up, but credits don't roll until January 20. 

MilesTeg

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5758 on: November 23, 2020, 09:05:02 PM »
The popular narrative is: Of course he’ll run in 2024 ... and is the favorite to be the GOP nominee.

But... there’s a wide field of 2024 hopefuls, including Cotton, Rubio, Lee, Pompeo and Cruz.  Each are shrewd politicians in their own right.  I expect a fair bit of backstabbing to go on, much of it behind the scenes, and all of them with plenty of ammo. Unflattering leaks about his presidency, a rush to secure donors and voters, etc.  Modest gains in the house in 2020 aside , they are calculating enough to realize the Trump presidency has made the GOP future harder, with GA and AZ now in play, and NC and TX uncomfortably close.

In other words - it’ll be a four year long fight for party control, with Trump being the common threat to each of their ambitions.

I doubt Trump makes it 4 years without a undeniable neurological symptoms at a minimum. He's barely holding it together enough to seem marginally cogent as it is. He be done.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5759 on: November 24, 2020, 01:51:32 AM »
As if a working brain was a criteria in the last years!

I think in some countries there are "innocent" verdicts as well as "not guilty".  I wonder if that works better than the binary approach the US has.
I don't know if you mean that, but in Germany the judge can say you are innocent (if there was good proof you didn't do it, like in one murder case where the guy was in prison at that time, a fucking good alibi if you ask me), guilty (as in it is reasonably proofed you were guilty) and free because there was not enough proof (the judge thinks it's possible or even likely you did it but cannot proof it).

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5760 on: November 24, 2020, 02:18:51 AM »
The popular narrative is: Of course he’ll run in 2024 ... and is the favorite to be the GOP nominee.

But... there’s a wide field of 2024 hopefuls, including Cotton, Rubio, Lee, Pompeo and Cruz.  Each are shrewd politicians in their own right.  I expect a fair bit of backstabbing to go on, much of it behind the scenes, and all of them with plenty of ammo. Unflattering leaks about his presidency, a rush to secure donors and voters, etc.  Modest gains in the house in 2020 aside , they are calculating enough to realize the Trump presidency has made the GOP future harder, with GA and AZ now in play, and NC and TX uncomfortably close.

In other words - it’ll be a four year long fight for party control, with Trump being the common threat to each of their ambitions.

I doubt Trump makes it 4 years without a undeniable neurological symptoms at a minimum. He's barely holding it together enough to seem marginally cogent as it is. He be done.
Trump owns the Republican party.  He owns its most fervent supporters, he owns the income stream from them, he owns the data information, he has put his supporters in all the positions of power at National and State level.  Trump will say he is looking at running in 2024 and use that to raise money and shut out the other candidates for the next couple of years.  He will then either run again or annoint either Don Jr or Ivanka in his place.

New York mob boss strategy.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5761 on: November 24, 2020, 05:23:02 AM »
The popular narrative is: Of course he’ll run in 2024 ... and is the favorite to be the GOP nominee.

But... there’s a wide field of 2024 hopefuls, including Cotton, Rubio, Lee, Pompeo and Cruz.  Each are shrewd politicians in their own right.  I expect a fair bit of backstabbing to go on, much of it behind the scenes, and all of them with plenty of ammo. Unflattering leaks about his presidency, a rush to secure donors and voters, etc.  Modest gains in the house in 2020 aside , they are calculating enough to realize the Trump presidency has made the GOP future harder, with GA and AZ now in play, and NC and TX uncomfortably close.

In other words - it’ll be a four year long fight for party control, with Trump being the common threat to each of their ambitions.

I doubt Trump makes it 4 years without a undeniable neurological symptoms at a minimum. He's barely holding it together enough to seem marginally cogent as it is. He be done.
Trump owns the Republican party.  He owns its most fervent supporters, he owns the income stream from them, he owns the data information, he has put his supporters in all the positions of power at National and State level.  Trump will say he is looking at running in 2024 and use that to raise money and shut out the other candidates for the next couple of years.  He will then either run again or annoint either Don Jr or Ivanka in his place.

New York mob boss strategy.

He owns a shockingly large portion of fevernt supporters, yes.  I’m less convinced of the rest.  Certainly many (most?) of the elected GOP officials are afraid of igniting his ire, but many within the party don’t seem to like him either - at least in part because he attacked them so personally.  And like most federal politicians, they are driven at least in part by power, and now Trump has lost his.

Further, they can look at this like anyone else... in four years do they really want to send the guy who lost the incumbency by 6MM votes as their standard bearer against an incumbent?  That sounds like a terrible starting point - imagine if HRC had run again in 2020 (And she actually won the popular vote)...

I’ve no doubt that Trump has plans to run again, and I know he’s got a large and loud base that will be behind him.  But I suspect he’ll be undermined at every turn by both the Democrats AND many within the GOP - though the GOP will be more subversive about it. More tell-all accounts will come up.  His mad twitter-rages will be met with more backhand comments like “unfortunately you were unable to win re-election, so we are stuck with this”.  Slowly they will poison his image and reinforce the idea that Trump is a loser who lost by a record number of votes. GOP voters will have ongoing, cantankerous discussions about whether re-nominating him is a good idea much as the Dems did about HRC,

Meanwhile, Trump’s own problems will keep coming.  He’ll say anything to steal the media cycle, yet this time around he won’t be delivering judges to offset his outrageous behavior.  More tell-all bombshell books will come out from his own hand-picked staff seeking to capitalize on their years in the WH (“I barely knew him/her!’).  Lawsuits will progress, and he’ll likely lose or settle quite a few.  Some of his suffering, high-profile businesses will close - particularly absent his ability to funnel millions in federal dollars their way.Trump Jr will continue to be the entitled jerk who think’s his mission is to ‘own the libs’. 

That’s just my thinking. Trump saying he’ll run now doesn’t mean he’ll get to in 4 years - it’s going to be a tough time (deservedly so) for him and his family without the bully pulpit and full weight of the DOJ behind him.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5762 on: November 24, 2020, 06:27:32 AM »
What gets me is that Trump couldn't even fake caring about the Corona virus. He could have pretended to care about people, had his experts like Fauci speaking to the people on tv on a regular basis. He could have insisted on all 50 states wear masks, social distancing. Insisting on relief funds, PPE and equipment. He could have faked his way thru it all and would have been seen as a hero! Instead, he fought everything. According to Trump, it was the previous administrations fault there was no stockpile of PPE or equipment three years into his administration. Kushner said it was their stockpile. Mmmm, theirs for what? Aren't we the American people who paid for it in the first place? Trump would not lead by example by wearing a mask. He wouldn't cooperate in social distancing at events he hosted or appeared at. With numbers of infections and deaths going up and up he still ignored it all. If for nothing else he did while president, and he was a train wreck of a president, the Covid disaster and lack of doing anything did him in. He can never accept losing. He has to blame fake ballots, fake something. It is always someone else's fault, never his fault. He can't care because he has no heart or soul. Maybe it is time for Little Rocket Man to write Trump another love letter to soothe his hurt feelings. January 20th can't come fast enough!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5763 on: November 24, 2020, 06:46:35 AM »
The popular narrative is: Of course he’ll run in 2024 ... and is the favorite to be the GOP nominee.

But... there’s a wide field of 2024 hopefuls, including Cotton, Rubio, Lee, Pompeo and Cruz.  Each are shrewd politicians in their own right.  I expect a fair bit of backstabbing to go on, much of it behind the scenes, and all of them with plenty of ammo. Unflattering leaks about his presidency, a rush to secure donors and voters, etc.  Modest gains in the house in 2020 aside , they are calculating enough to realize the Trump presidency has made the GOP future harder, with GA and AZ now in play, and NC and TX uncomfortably close.

In other words - it’ll be a four year long fight for party control, with Trump being the common threat to each of their ambitions.

I doubt Trump makes it 4 years without a undeniable neurological symptoms at a minimum. He's barely holding it together enough to seem marginally cogent as it is. He be done.
Trump owns the Republican party.  He owns its most fervent supporters, he owns the income stream from them, he owns the data information, he has put his supporters in all the positions of power at National and State level.  Trump will say he is looking at running in 2024 and use that to raise money and shut out the other candidates for the next couple of years.  He will then either run again or annoint either Don Jr or Ivanka in his place.

New York mob boss strategy.

He owns a shockingly large portion of fevernt supporters, yes.  I’m less convinced of the rest.  Certainly many (most?) of the elected GOP officials are afraid of igniting his ire, but many within the party don’t seem to like him either - at least in part because he attacked them so personally.  And like most federal politicians, they are driven at least in part by power, and now Trump has lost his.

Further, they can look at this like anyone else... in four years do they really want to send the guy who lost the incumbency by 6MM votes as their standard bearer against an incumbent?  That sounds like a terrible starting point - imagine if HRC had run again in 2020 (And she actually won the popular vote)...

I’ve no doubt that Trump has plans to run again, and I know he’s got a large and loud base that will be behind him.  But I suspect he’ll be undermined at every turn by both the Democrats AND many within the GOP - though the GOP will be more subversive about it. More tell-all accounts will come up.  His mad twitter-rages will be met with more backhand comments like “unfortunately you were unable to win re-election, so we are stuck with this”.  Slowly they will poison his image and reinforce the idea that Trump is a loser who lost by a record number of votes. GOP voters will have ongoing, cantankerous discussions about whether re-nominating him is a good idea much as the Dems did about HRC,

Meanwhile, Trump’s own problems will keep coming.  He’ll say anything to steal the media cycle, yet this time around he won’t be delivering judges to offset his outrageous behavior.  More tell-all bombshell books will come out from his own hand-picked staff seeking to capitalize on their years in the WH (“I barely knew him/her!’).  Lawsuits will progress, and he’ll likely lose or settle quite a few.  Some of his suffering, high-profile businesses will close - particularly absent his ability to funnel millions in federal dollars their way.Trump Jr will continue to be the entitled jerk who think’s his mission is to ‘own the libs’. 

That’s just my thinking. Trump saying he’ll run now doesn’t mean he’ll get to in 4 years - it’s going to be a tough time (deservedly so) for him and his family without the bully pulpit and full weight of the DOJ behind him.

We'll know for sure if after 21 Jan the Republicans in office are still trying to kiss his ass or appear afraid of him. I'd put it 50/50 whether he retains control of the party. He's threatened to dictate races for the next couple years and with enough funding and media coverage could pull off something if he keeps his grassroots support.

When you say incumbent do you mean Harris? They could argue that as vice she didn't do anything. And he wouldn't be the guy who lost by 6 million votes, but rather the guy who was cheated by a couple hundred thousand fake votes.

On the other hand, he'd have to keep his base on the hook for nearly four years. They could easily rally around someone else or simply lose interest in him during that time. If he can keep influence over the party through the midterms, he'll shape every win to be all about him.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5764 on: November 24, 2020, 07:28:45 AM »
I think January 21st 2020 is much too soon. My prediction is that it will be a gradual distancing from Trump over the next year or so, followed by a lot more internal criticism. Every time the Dems pass a new policy there will be grumbling of “well this wouldn’t have happened of only Trump could have held onto the WH...”

Ambitious politicians from all parties and countries are skilled at undermining their own for personal gain. Cruz, Graham, Pompeo and Lee are all very ambitious (and politically skilled). Look at how quickly the flipped from being Trump critics to being his sycophants for obvious personal gain. Now Trump stands in the way of their ambitions.

Edit; add C Christie to that list ( among others). He recently called Trump’s post election conduct “a national embarrassment”. Gee, he was a presidential contender too. And was railroaded by Trump before becoming his advisor (and then railroaded again).
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 07:31:26 AM by nereo »

DaMa

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5765 on: November 24, 2020, 07:46:14 AM »
As long as he is a candidate he can use campaign contributions to pay legal fees, right?  And siphon money off in any number of other ways. 

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5766 on: November 24, 2020, 09:58:18 AM »
Trump’s 2021 will involve some, or perhaps all, of the following:
1. Departing the White House
2. Divorce
3. Defending against civil lawsuits
4. Defending against criminal tax evasion
5. Devising a plan to avoid business and/or personal bankruptcy

That doesn’t even count the various tell-all books. It will be fascinating to watch.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5767 on: November 24, 2020, 10:42:05 AM »
As long as he is a candidate he can use campaign contributions to pay legal fees, right?  And siphon money off in any number of other ways.

Yes. Much of the current donations go to his leadership PAC, "Save America," which can be used to pay salaries for Trump and his children as well as primary certain Republicans, like Kemp, who didn't give the election to him. The PAC money can also be used for renting Trump office space and hotel space.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5768 on: November 24, 2020, 11:10:13 AM »
I think January 21st 2020 is much too soon. My prediction is that it will be a gradual distancing from Trump over the next year or so, followed by a lot more internal criticism. Every time the Dems pass a new policy there will be grumbling of “well this wouldn’t have happened of only Trump could have held onto the WH...”

Ambitious politicians from all parties and countries are skilled at undermining their own for personal gain. Cruz, Graham, Pompeo and Lee are all very ambitious (and politically skilled). Look at how quickly the flipped from being Trump critics to being his sycophants for obvious personal gain. Now Trump stands in the way of their ambitions.

Edit; add C Christie to that list ( among others). He recently called Trump’s post election conduct “a national embarrassment”. Gee, he was a presidential contender too. And was railroaded by Trump before becoming his advisor (and then railroaded again).

There was an army of skilled and motivated politicians that came after him in 2016 including the aformentioned Cruz and Graham, plus Jeb Bush, who seemingly had every advantage to breezing through to be the nominee. None of that matters in the face of Cult of Personality. Trump consistently had 90%+ support of Republican voters despite everything that happened from The escalator/Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers through today. If he wants the nomination in 2024, it is his.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5769 on: November 24, 2020, 11:23:50 AM »
I think January 21st 2020 is much too soon. My prediction is that it will be a gradual distancing from Trump over the next year or so, followed by a lot more internal criticism. Every time the Dems pass a new policy there will be grumbling of “well this wouldn’t have happened of only Trump could have held onto the WH...”

Ambitious politicians from all parties and countries are skilled at undermining their own for personal gain. Cruz, Graham, Pompeo and Lee are all very ambitious (and politically skilled). Look at how quickly the flipped from being Trump critics to being his sycophants for obvious personal gain. Now Trump stands in the way of their ambitions.

Edit; add C Christie to that list ( among others). He recently called Trump’s post election conduct “a national embarrassment”. Gee, he was a presidential contender too. And was railroaded by Trump before becoming his advisor (and then railroaded again).

There was an army of skilled and motivated politicians that came after him in 2016 including the aformentioned Cruz and Graham, plus Jeb Bush, who seemingly had every advantage to breezing through to be the nominee. None of that matters in the face of Cult of Personality. Trump consistently had 90%+ support of Republican voters despite everything that happened from The escalator/Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers through today. If he wants the nomination in 2024, it is his.

I'm not convinced.
Most politicians didn't take Trump very seriously in 2016 until it was too late.  Now he's the front-runner in the GOP - very different circumstances.  Also, he was able to sell himself as the political outsider and successful businessman who "didn't need to do this".  He's no longer some party outsider, and his image as a successful businessman is looking less and less sound each month.

Then there's the passage of time.  I agree that if the GOP were to chose their candidate for 2024 now, Trump could take it in a cake walk.  But it won't be decided for over three years.  That's 3 years in which he'll have a target on his back from all sides.  Three years of (IMO) unfavorable review of his presidency. His 90% approval within the party today means little.  Most presidents experience a large drift in their popularity once they leave office.  WJ Clinton is less popular now than he was during his final months.  Carter and Bush Sr are viewed far more favorably.   Trump's party approval has practically no-where to go but down.  It's my suspicion that it will fall, and significantly so

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5770 on: November 24, 2020, 12:01:32 PM »
You are laying out a lot of logical conclusions, but I'm not convinced these voters will follow your logic and reach the same conclusions.  All of these nice, sound, rational reasons you are laying out are not very convincing considering the 4 year heinous shit show I just watched, and he literally had 72M people for him 3 weeks ago.  You experienced the same reality I did, which includes him getting the second most votes for president, ever (second only to Biden, this election).  As embarrassing as he is, he commands a large following somehow. 

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5771 on: November 24, 2020, 12:06:27 PM »
Trump’s 2021 will involve some, or perhaps all, of the following:

2. Divorce

That doesn’t even count the various tell-all books. It will be fascinating to watch.

Why would this happen?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5772 on: November 24, 2020, 12:06:46 PM »
I’d be curious to know how many of those 72 million voted for Trump, and how many voted against Biden. I’m guessing there’s a solid 25 to 35 million misguided souls who voted for Trump.  Are there 37 to 47 million who helped their noses while voting for him but would prefer a better standard bearer for their policy preferences? How far does the cult of personality go?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5773 on: November 24, 2020, 12:08:29 PM »
I think January 21st 2020 is much too soon. My prediction is that it will be a gradual distancing from Trump over the next year or so, followed by a lot more internal criticism. Every time the Dems pass a new policy there will be grumbling of “well this wouldn’t have happened of only Trump could have held onto the WH...”

Ambitious politicians from all parties and countries are skilled at undermining their own for personal gain. Cruz, Graham, Pompeo and Lee are all very ambitious (and politically skilled). Look at how quickly the flipped from being Trump critics to being his sycophants for obvious personal gain. Now Trump stands in the way of their ambitions.

Edit; add C Christie to that list ( among others). He recently called Trump’s post election conduct “a national embarrassment”. Gee, he was a presidential contender too. And was railroaded by Trump before becoming his advisor (and then railroaded again).

There was an army of skilled and motivated politicians that came after him in 2016 including the aformentioned Cruz and Graham, plus Jeb Bush, who seemingly had every advantage to breezing through to be the nominee. None of that matters in the face of Cult of Personality. Trump consistently had 90%+ support of Republican voters despite everything that happened from The escalator/Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers through today. If he wants the nomination in 2024, it is his.

I'm not convinced.
Most politicians didn't take Trump very seriously in 2016 until it was too late.  Now he's the front-runner in the GOP - very different circumstances.  Also, he was able to sell himself as the political outsider and successful businessman who "didn't need to do this".  He's no longer some party outsider, and his image as a successful businessman is looking less and less sound each month.

Then there's the passage of time.  I agree that if the GOP were to chose their candidate for 2024 now, Trump could take it in a cake walk.  But it won't be decided for over three years.  That's 3 years in which he'll have a target on his back from all sides.  Three years of (IMO) unfavorable review of his presidency. His 90% approval within the party today means little.  Most presidents experience a large drift in their popularity once they leave office.  WJ Clinton is less popular now than he was during his final months.  Carter and Bush Sr are viewed far more favorably.   Trump's party approval has practically no-where to go but down.  It's my suspicion that it will fall, and significantly so

I think the challenge you are having is because you are thinking of Trump like a traditional politician. The schema you need is one of a cult leader. He's got three years to continue rambling his nonsense on Twitter. 3 years to hold rallies. 3 years to get the Trump Media network/website/entity up a running.

Don't compare him to Clinton and Bush. Compare him to Manson, Jones, Hubbard, and Karesch.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5774 on: November 24, 2020, 12:08:48 PM »
You are laying out a lot of logical conclusions, but I'm not convinced these voters will follow your logic and reach the same conclusions.  All of these nice, sound, rational reasons you are laying out are not very convincing considering the 4 year heinous shit show I just watched, and he literally had 72M people for him 3 weeks ago.  You experienced the same reality I did, which includes him getting the second most votes for president, ever (second only to Biden, this election).  As embarrassing as he is, he commands a large following somehow.

Yep. Trump can convince his followers that a court loss is really a win. His followers believe that the Four Seasons fuckup was on purpose and that the election fraud evidence is coming any day now (two more weeks!)

The true believers are suckers. If he tells them that shit is gold, they'd hoard it.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5775 on: November 24, 2020, 12:10:47 PM »
Trump’s 2021 will involve some, or perhaps all, of the following:

2. Divorce

That doesn’t even count the various tell-all books. It will be fascinating to watch.

Why would this happen?

According to something I read (that may be wishful thinking), Melanie renegotiated her pre-nup at the beginning of Trump’s presidency.  The gist of it was, if she stays with him through his time in the White House, she gets a bigger number if they divorce.  In other words, the golden handcuffs may be looser after January 20th.

That answers why she could divorce him. Why would she?  I don’t think I really need to list the reasons...

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5776 on: November 24, 2020, 12:17:04 PM »
You are laying out a lot of logical conclusions, but I'm not convinced these voters will follow your logic and reach the same conclusions.  All of these nice, sound, rational reasons you are laying out are not very convincing considering the 4 year heinous shit show I just watched, and he literally had 72M people for him 3 weeks ago.  You experienced the same reality I did, which includes him getting the second most votes for president, ever (second only to Biden, this election).  As embarrassing as he is, he commands a large following somehow.

That's a good a counter-argument as any.
Time will tell, i guess.  If I had to summarize my thinking here it would be "don't underestimate the force of ambition".  Regardless of the outcome I think the next few years will be ones which poli-sci majors will study for decades.

Don't compare him to Clinton and Bush. Compare him to Manson, Jones, Hubbard, and Karesch.

Fair enough - were Manson, Jones, Hubbard and Karesch more or less popular after they had been knocked from their leadership role?  I know the most about Manson, and his followers largely recanted and claimed brainwashing.

Yep. Trump can convince his followers that a court loss is really a win. His followers believe that the Four Seasons fuckup was on purpose and that the election fraud evidence is coming any day now (two more weeks!)

The true believers are suckers. If he tells them that shit is gold, they'd hoard it.

As we've seen, his 'true believers' were woefully insufficient to push him into a second term, even with (likely) tens-of-millions of others who held their nose and voted for him (because they love conservative judges or fear a Dem's "socialism!!" or...whatever).  So.... in politics what matters most is who can WIN, and who is perceived as most likely to win.  Trump's challenge will be to convince MORE people he can win after her just lost.  I'll admit, he's got a special talent and history of doing just that. 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 12:24:20 PM by nereo »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5777 on: November 24, 2020, 12:18:11 PM »
I’d be curious to know how many of those 72 million voted for Trump, and how many voted against Biden. I’m guessing there’s a solid 25 to 35 million misguided souls who voted for Trump.  Are there 37 to 47 million who helped their noses while voting for him but would prefer a better standard bearer for their policy preferences? How far does the cult of personality go?

Given the number of Republicans who claimed they would vote for Biden in order to preserve the rule of law, I think the vast majority of Trump voters are voting for Trump. Well, and against Biden in so far as he is clearly a corrupt pedo commie, but if you are voting based on such conspiracy theories, that is a vote for Trump disguised with lies as to why you could not possibly vote against him. Just like all my relatives who voted for Trump because Clinton is a liar who didn't dump her husband over his sexual improprieties.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5778 on: November 24, 2020, 12:33:37 PM »
2. Divorce

Why would this happen?

Do a quick google for "Melania rejects Donald's hand". Even before Trump took office there was long-running speculation that she hates Trump because she seems to recoil every time he touches her. And that trend has only continued in the last four years. It would be funny if it weren't such a sad situation.

Have you ever seen them being affectionate with each other? You know, like the spouse of literally every other politician regularly does? I would not be at all surprised if she divorces him next year.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5779 on: November 24, 2020, 01:02:06 PM »
Plenty of people stay in marriages in which they are not obviously affectionate. Melania's celebrity was amplified by the marriage, and further amplified by the Trump Presidency. I don't believe she's interested in throwing that away.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5780 on: November 24, 2020, 01:13:53 PM »
2. Divorce

Why would this happen?

Do a quick google for "Melania rejects Donald's hand". Even before Trump took office there was long-running speculation that she hates Trump because she seems to recoil every time he touches her. And that trend has only continued in the last four years. It would be funny if it weren't such a sad situation.

Have you ever seen them being affectionate with each other? You know, like the spouse of literally every other politician regularly does? I would not be at all surprised if she divorces him next year.

She has seemed to be a bit fed up with her husband lately. I think it is different to be a trophy wife to a somewhat famous guy and to be the trophy wife to a man with  a somewhat erratic behavior that is seen by the "whole" world. In the first position you could be somewhat anonymous, while now everything she does is judged. I would also have renegotiated "the deal" in her case.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5781 on: November 24, 2020, 01:24:00 PM »
Most women would be at least somewhat unhappy to find out that their husband was paying tens of thousands of dollars to fuck porn stars.  Cheating on wives is a deeply ingrained pattern of Trump's though - he started dating Melania while still married after all - so I'm not sure if it would be surprising or cause for concern to her.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5782 on: November 24, 2020, 01:43:24 PM »
Most women would be at least somewhat unhappy to find out that their husband was paying tens of thousands of dollars to fuck porn stars.  Cheating on wives is a deeply ingrained pattern of Trump's though - he started dating Melania while still married after all - so I'm not sure if it would be surprising or cause for concern to her.

Makes me wonder if there is a cheating clause in her post-nup.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5783 on: November 24, 2020, 01:58:43 PM »
Most women would be at least somewhat unhappy to find out that their husband was paying tens of thousands of dollars to fuck porn stars.  Cheating on wives is a deeply ingrained pattern of Trump's though - he started dating Melania while still married after all - so I'm not sure if it would be surprising or cause for concern to her.

Makes me wonder if there is a cheating clause in her post-nup.

In Jan/Feb of 2017 Melania stayed behind in NYC instead of moving into the WH with Donald.  Reports later surfaced that she used the optics of the situation as well as the revelations from Stormy Daniels to re-negotiate her post-nup very strongly in her favor.

What I wonder is what kind of a family feud will occur after DJT”s passing when all five of his children + Melania get various stakes in whatever is left of his assets.  Nancy Trump tells an epic story of how Donald basically cheated the other family members out of their share of Fred Trump’s estate.  Wouldn’t be surprised if that occurs again - though who will benefit the most (my money is on Melania - though Jr is certainly devilish enough).

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5784 on: November 24, 2020, 02:06:31 PM »
Most women would be at least somewhat unhappy to find out that their husband was paying tens of thousands of dollars to fuck porn stars.  Cheating on wives is a deeply ingrained pattern of Trump's though - he started dating Melania while still married after all - so I'm not sure if it would be surprising or cause for concern to her.

Makes me wonder if there is a cheating clause in her post-nup.

In Jan/Feb of 2017 Melania stayed behind in NYC instead of moving into the WH with Donald.  Reports later surfaced that she used the optics of the situation as well as the revelations from Stormy Daniels to re-negotiate her post-nup very strongly in her favor.

What I wonder is what kind of a family feud will occur after DJT”s passing when all five of his children + Melania get various stakes in whatever is left of his assets.  Nancy Trump tells an epic story of how Donald basically cheated the other family members out of their share of Fred Trump’s estate.  Wouldn’t be surprised if that occurs again - though who will benefit the most (my money is on Melania - though Jr is certainly devilish enough).
Or perhaps years of fraud will catch up and there will be nothing to split and argue over but blame.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5785 on: November 24, 2020, 02:08:35 PM »
Most women would be at least somewhat unhappy to find out that their husband was paying tens of thousands of dollars to fuck porn stars.  Cheating on wives is a deeply ingrained pattern of Trump's though - he started dating Melania while still married after all - so I'm not sure if it would be surprising or cause for concern to her.

Makes me wonder if there is a cheating clause in her post-nup.

In Jan/Feb of 2017 Melania stayed behind in NYC instead of moving into the WH with Donald.  Reports later surfaced that she used the optics of the situation as well as the revelations from Stormy Daniels to re-negotiate her post-nup very strongly in her favor.

What I wonder is what kind of a family feud will occur after DJT”s passing when all five of his children + Melania get various stakes in whatever is left of his assets.  Nancy Trump tells an epic story of how Donald basically cheated the other family members out of their share of Fred Trump’s estate.  Wouldn’t be surprised if that occurs again - though who will benefit the most (my money is on Melania - though Jr is certainly devilish enough).

I'm thinking Ivanka is going to be the most favorably off. She always seemed to be the favorite, her husband got a plum job (plus both grown brothers excuse me seem thick as posts), Melania seems to dislike her (possibly vice versa?) I don't really care about hearing about Trump after he is no longer the president. I do believe the infighting amongst wife + youngest child and all the other children for inheritances may be EPIC, especially if they find there is significantly less to fight over than they thought. They all hitched their stars to him. Bad judgement.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 05:43:34 PM by partgypsy »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5786 on: November 24, 2020, 03:10:37 PM »

In Jan/Feb of 2017 Melania stayed behind in NYC instead of moving into the WH with Donald.  Reports later surfaced that she used the optics of the situation as well as the revelations from Stormy Daniels to re-negotiate her post-nup very strongly in her favor.

What I wonder is what kind of a family feud will occur after DJT”s passing when all five of his children + Melania get various stakes in whatever is left of his assets.  Nancy Trump tells an epic story of how Donald basically cheated the other family members out of their share of Fred Trump’s estate.  Wouldn’t be surprised if that occurs again - though who will benefit the most (my money is on Melania - though Jr is certainly devilish enough).

I'm thinking Ivanka is going to be the most favorably off. She always seemed to be the favorite, her husband got a plum job (plus both grown brothers excuse me seem thick as posts), Melania seems to dislike her (possibly vice versa?) I don't really care about hearing about Trump after he is no longer the president. I do believe the infighting amongst wife + youngest child and all the other children for inheritances may be EPIC, especially if they find there is significantly less to fight over than they thought. They all tied hitched their stars to him. Bad judgement.

Well, they may all end up being the examples of why not to have your children have economic outpatient status.  And why not to hire family.  And why not to marry for money.  Or at least, if you do marry for money, get the money transferred to your name early.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5787 on: November 24, 2020, 08:09:52 PM »
Trump was just retweeting Randy Quaid....

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5788 on: November 25, 2020, 02:46:29 AM »
Plenty of people stay in marriages in which they are not obviously affectionate. Melania's celebrity was amplified by the marriage, and further amplified by the Trump Presidency. I don't believe she's interested in throwing that away.
But from now on, whatever she wanted from, can only go downward.
I would guess a grace period of half a year.

And yes, I guess the infighting will be horrible. Maybe Melanie is a secret Sadist and wants to watch it? :D

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5789 on: November 25, 2020, 08:49:36 AM »
Ivanka married the wealthiest partner of the five children.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5790 on: November 25, 2020, 11:32:24 AM »
Ivanka married the wealthiest partner of the five children.
!?.... maybe...?
...but perhaps (also) the one most deeply in debt, and legal jeopardy.
Two years before they married, Kushner overpaid for the 666 building on 5th avenue, taking out a $1.2BB loan with a fairly high interest rate.  Then the market went into the toilet and he's been in debt to the Saudis since they helped bail him out.

https://www.justsecurity.org/69094/timeline-on-jared-kushner-qatar-666-fifth-avenue-and-white-house-policy/

So perhaps Ivanka is the child who most married someone like her father... in debt, leveraged up to his eyeballs and in-bed with some unscrupulous people.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5792 on: November 25, 2020, 02:09:02 PM »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5793 on: November 25, 2020, 04:52:29 PM »
Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...


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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5794 on: November 25, 2020, 05:32:07 PM »
Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...

This will be the first of several to many of such bullshit pardons and clemency. The full list of such granted by Trump to date is a laundry list of political connection, donations to the Trump campaign, and political red meat. The commutations for deserving persons such as Jack Johnson are far and away the outliers. Of course, Matt Gaetz has gone on record as saying Trump should basically just go hog wild with pardons explicitly to own the 'libs. I suspect a lot of these will happen on Fridays and just before holidays such that people are distracted and it is "old news" by the time Monday rolls around. Should we get a pool going on a bid for a blanket clemency/pardon for anyone named Trump on December 24?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5795 on: November 25, 2020, 05:43:24 PM »

So perhaps Ivanka is the child who most married someone like her father... in debt, leveraged up to his eyeballs and in-bed with some unscrupulous people.

And it's all involving real estate.

Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...


When I went to bed the headline was "he's thinking about it." I'm not desensitized, but rather my only thought was "took him long enough." People have been predicting a Flynn pardon for a couple years.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 05:46:06 PM by Travis »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5796 on: November 25, 2020, 05:49:51 PM »
Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...

I only just saw the headline. It's not surprising in the slightest. He's going to do as much damage as possible in the next 8 weeks. It's the federal equivalent of trashing your rental before you get evicted, although he might also literally do that.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5797 on: November 25, 2020, 06:09:28 PM »
Huh.  Have we become so desensitized by Trump’s antics that no one has mentioned he pardoned Michael Flynn today?  His first National Security Advisor, who lied to the FBI and obstructed justice in an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election...

I only just saw the headline. It's not surprising in the slightest. He's going to do as much damage as possible in the next 8 weeks. It's the federal equivalent of trashing your rental before you get evicted, although he might also literally do that.

What, like he’ll smash a few windows in the WH? 

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5798 on: November 25, 2020, 06:15:15 PM »
What, like he’ll smash a few windows in the WH?
... or get piss on a few of the beds, whatever.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5799 on: November 25, 2020, 06:46:24 PM »
Would anyone here really be surprised if he burnt the White House to the ground?