Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681101 times)

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4400 on: September 30, 2020, 07:32:22 AM »
He's displayed just that at the debate. Could he go 30 seconds without interrupting anyone? Next time I hope they mute the microphone when the other candidate is speaking! It seems that Trump's tactic was to constantly interrupt and break the rules of the debate, only to claim bias when he's called out.

Both parties have to agree to the rules of the debate beforehand or there wouldn't be a debate, and I bet you ever dollar I have that the Trump campaign would never agree to a debate where the moderator could mute the mic of the person who's not supposed to talk. This is how it is because this is how Trump wants it.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4401 on: September 30, 2020, 07:43:00 AM »
He's displayed just that at the debate. Could he go 30 seconds without interrupting anyone? Next time I hope they mute the microphone when the other candidate is speaking! It seems that Trump's tactic was to constantly interrupt and break the rules of the debate, only to claim bias when he's called out.

Both parties have to agree to the rules of the debate beforehand or there wouldn't be a debate, and I bet you ever dollar I have that the Trump campaign would never agree to a debate where the moderator could mute the mic of the person who's not supposed to talk. This is how it is because this is how Trump wants it.

I disagree.  Trump has proven to be too much of a narcissit to refuse a nationally televised chance to attack his opponent, and the polls show that he desperately needs to move the needle,  and quickly. Trump's base has been clamoring for more debates on the hope that Biden would have some sort of senior moment that could "prove" their theory that he's senile.
IMO the network could have and should have cut off each debator's respective microphones whenever it was not their turn to speak.  But Wallace said publicly that he wanted to be "as invisible as possible" and let the debate play out on its own.  Which is what happened.

I don't think anyone was well served by last night's sideshow.  Had each candidate been allowed to (and forced to) speak uninterrupted for 2 minute stretches followed by a rebutal (which is what both sides actually agreed to in the debate rules) the public would have been better served.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4402 on: September 30, 2020, 07:43:13 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

I'm not even talking about his "politics", in the sense that (as a fiscal conservative) I can kinda see the reasoning behind at least some of his policies. I'm talking about his overtly demeaning, misogynist, racist rhetoric.

Sure, Pauline Hanson got some traction in Australia (albeit 25 years ago) with overtly racist rhetoric. But she was from a loony far right party that got about 10% of the vote at its peak. Trump is the president. And his call-outs of the dead son of his opponent, his lack of tact and grace, are just astounding. Brazen. The guy needs a little class.

I would have thought that in most environments the kind of boasting that Trump partakes in would elicit social disapproval.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4403 on: September 30, 2020, 07:50:06 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

The problem here is your issuance of a blanket statement that Americans are stupid ("...the sheer stupidity of the American people).  Calling a group of people stupid is in violation of the forum rules (1, 2, 4 & 6), and extending it to a much larger demographic is nationalistic stereotyping. 

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4404 on: September 30, 2020, 08:05:14 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

The problem here is your issuance of a blanket statement that Americans are stupid ("...the sheer stupidity of the American people).  Calling a group of people stupid is in violation of the forum rules (1, 2, 4 & 6), and extending it to a much larger demographic is nationalistic stereotyping.

I mean, as an American myself I think it's a fair statement.  As a whole, we are a pretty stupid country to have put that guy in office.

eljefe-speaks

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4405 on: September 30, 2020, 08:20:51 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

He lost the popular vote. As was said earlier, the majority of Americans vehemently disagree with Trump. Ironic that you use stupid logic to claim that Americans are stupid.

dignam

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4406 on: September 30, 2020, 08:25:44 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

I'm not even talking about his "politics", in the sense that (as a fiscal conservative) I can kinda see the reasoning behind at least some of his policies. I'm talking about his overtly demeaning, misogynist, racist rhetoric.

Sure, Pauline Hanson got some traction in Australia (albeit 25 years ago) with overtly racist rhetoric. But she was from a loony far right party that got about 10% of the vote at its peak. Trump is the president. And his call-outs of the dead son of his opponent, his lack of tact and grace, are just astounding. Brazen. The guy needs a little class.

I would have thought that in most environments the kind of boasting that Trump partakes in would elicit social disapproval.

Still, your blanket statement about idiot Americans is off base.  So much holier than thou coming from your posts.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe what our President stands for.  But you have to credit him in appealing to a certain type of person and getting (almost) half the country to vote for him. 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 08:28:56 AM by dignam »

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4407 on: September 30, 2020, 08:42:13 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

I'm not even talking about his "politics", in the sense that (as a fiscal conservative) I can kinda see the reasoning behind at least some of his policies. I'm talking about his overtly demeaning, misogynist, racist rhetoric.

Sure, Pauline Hanson got some traction in Australia (albeit 25 years ago) with overtly racist rhetoric. But she was from a loony far right party that got about 10% of the vote at its peak. Trump is the president. And his call-outs of the dead son of his opponent, his lack of tact and grace, are just astounding. Brazen. The guy needs a little class.

I would have thought that in most environments the kind of boasting that Trump partakes in would elicit social disapproval.

Still, your blanket statement about idiot Americans is off base.  So much holier than thou coming from your posts.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe what our President stands for.  But you have to credit him in appealing to a certain type of person and getting (almost) half the country to vote for him.

Much less than half. Somewhere around half of eligible voters didnít vote, and then more than half of those who did voted for Clinton. So really less than 25% voted for him. He only won by a hair in three states that determined the outcome because of the Electoral College (as has been discussed ad nauseum upthread).

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4408 on: September 30, 2020, 08:45:51 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

I'm not even talking about his "politics", in the sense that (as a fiscal conservative) I can kinda see the reasoning behind at least some of his policies. I'm talking about his overtly demeaning, misogynist, racist rhetoric.

Sure, Pauline Hanson got some traction in Australia (albeit 25 years ago) with overtly racist rhetoric. But she was from a loony far right party that got about 10% of the vote at its peak. Trump is the president. And his call-outs of the dead son of his opponent, his lack of tact and grace, are just astounding. Brazen. The guy needs a little class.

I would have thought that in most environments the kind of boasting that Trump partakes in would elicit social disapproval.
Why do you think human nature has changed so much in the last $selectyournumber of years?

You don't need to be good, you only need to be a good seller. That could be the inofficial motto of the US.
Trump knows how to sell himself to a certain audience. An audience who wants a certain "truth" and get's it from him. Every disapproval is either the enemies showing their nerves or people who just don't get it.
Hitler didn't start as Chancellor. And Spartakus wasn't exactly a king. The mechanism is the same.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4409 on: September 30, 2020, 08:46:24 AM »
Don't get me wrong, I loathe what our President stands for.  But you have to credit him in appealing to a certain type of person and getting (almost) half the country to vote for him.

I'm of a split mind on this. On one hand, I think it's true that the only reason Trump won the Republican primary is because the "sane Republican vote" was split between too many other candidates for too long, and the only reasons he won the election is because:
  • Republicans always vote, and always vote Republican
  • The Electoral College is (currently) biased towards Republicans
  • Hillary was also a historically unpopular candidate (largely because of the last several decades of targeted Republican hate-mongering and conspiracy-theorizing against her specifically)
  • We were just coming off 8 years of a Democratic president, and a certain percentage of people always swing back and forth on purpose

So it seems like basically all the stars aligned perfectly to allow Trump to squeak in an EC victory, and that if you repeated the process he probably wouldn't even get close to nominated.

On the other hand Trump still today has a 92% approval rating among Republicans, and my parent's church is currently telling people they have to be willing to take up arms to "dispatch" the "Marxists who want to take away your freedom" in the oncoming "inevitable and just" Civil War II, so there's absolutely a lot of blame to spread around on the right for Trump.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4410 on: September 30, 2020, 08:50:17 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

The problem here is your issuance of a blanket statement that Americans are stupid ("...the sheer stupidity of the American people).  Calling a group of people stupid is in violation of the forum rules (1, 2, 4 & 6), and extending it to a much larger demographic is nationalistic stereotyping.

I mean, as an American myself I think it's a fair statement.  As a whole, we are a pretty stupid country to have put that guy in office.

Yeah, creating a system in which Florida gets to pick our head of state isn't what anybody wanted.

Barbaebigode

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4411 on: September 30, 2020, 08:59:33 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

The problem here is your issuance of a blanket statement that Americans are stupid ("...the sheer stupidity of the American people).  Calling a group of people stupid is in violation of the forum rules (1, 2, 4 & 6), and extending it to a much larger demographic is nationalistic stereotyping.

I mean, as an American myself I think it's a fair statement.  As a whole, we are a pretty stupid country to have put that guy in office.

Yeah, creating a system in which Florida gets to pick our head of state isn't what anybody wanted.

And the Electoral College it's a bizarre creation that helps a lot creating a two party system. People complaining of having to vote for the least worst option should take note of that.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4412 on: September 30, 2020, 09:05:07 AM »
Sometimes voting for the least worst option is what we have to do.  If that is still a bad option then it is time to work on that before the next election.

This happens in 2 party and multiple party systems.  As a voter in a multiple-party system I've voted for my second choice to be sure my worst choice didn't get in, it happens. 

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4413 on: September 30, 2020, 09:07:54 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

I'm not even talking about his "politics", in the sense that (as a fiscal conservative) I can kinda see the reasoning behind at least some of his policies. I'm talking about his overtly demeaning, misogynist, racist rhetoric.

Sure, Pauline Hanson got some traction in Australia (albeit 25 years ago) with overtly racist rhetoric. But she was from a loony far right party that got about 10% of the vote at its peak. Trump is the president. And his call-outs of the dead son of his opponent, his lack of tact and grace, are just astounding. Brazen. The guy needs a little class.

I would have thought that in most environments the kind of boasting that Trump partakes in would elicit social disapproval.

Still, your blanket statement about idiot Americans is off base.  So much holier than thou coming from your posts.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe what our President stands for.  But you have to credit him in appealing to a certain type of person and getting (almost) half the country to vote for him.

Oh yeah, I give him credit in being a very good demagogue. I also don't think that he as a person is stupid - anything but. He's been incredibly successful. My attack is upon the 'certain type of person' who votes for him. In my view, this transcends normal left/right politics because so many of Trump's pronouncements are idiosyncratic.

Barbaebigode

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4414 on: September 30, 2020, 09:42:53 AM »
Sometimes voting for the least worst option is what we have to do.  If that is still a bad option then it is time to work on that before the next election.

This happens in 2 party and multiple party systems.  As a voter in a multiple-party system I've voted for my second choice to be sure my worst choice didn't get in, it happens.

I understand that. I voted for the least worst many times on the second round of an election. But in the first round I always vote for my first choice and I don't think my vote was wasted since both candidates usually form coalitions for the second round. It's far from a perfect system, but it's better at giving a third our forth party a voice than the EC.

Cool Friend

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4415 on: September 30, 2020, 09:52:47 AM »
There is going to be a lot more violence now that he explicitly gave a call-to-arms to white supremacist groups on national television.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4416 on: September 30, 2020, 09:54:37 AM »
Sure, there are dumb people in every country. But at the end of the day, Americans elected a guy like Trump. You can't wash that stain off your hands.

I'm not even talking about his "politics", in the sense that (as a fiscal conservative) I can kinda see the reasoning behind at least some of his policies. I'm talking about his overtly demeaning, misogynist, racist rhetoric.

Sure, Pauline Hanson got some traction in Australia (albeit 25 years ago) with overtly racist rhetoric. But she was from a loony far right party that got about 10% of the vote at its peak. Trump is the president. And his call-outs of the dead son of his opponent, his lack of tact and grace, are just astounding. Brazen. The guy needs a little class.

I would have thought that in most environments the kind of boasting that Trump partakes in would elicit social disapproval.

Still, your blanket statement about idiot Americans is off base.  So much holier than thou coming from your posts.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe what our President stands for.  But you have to credit him in appealing to a certain type of person and getting (almost) half the country to vote for him.

Oh yeah, I give him credit in being a very good demagogue. I also don't think that he as a person is stupid - anything but. He's been incredibly successful. My attack is upon the 'certain type of person' who votes for him. In my view, this transcends normal left/right politics because so many of Trump's pronouncements are idiosyncratic.

Counterpoint: Trumpism is a minority movement, and the energy it's given to the Progressive movement will lead to a whole series of welcome changes in a few years' time.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4417 on: September 30, 2020, 10:01:03 AM »
There is going to be a lot more violence now that he explicitly gave a call-to-arms to white supremacist groups on national television.

The white supremacists are certainly happy about it.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4418 on: September 30, 2020, 10:07:11 AM »
Sometimes voting for the least worst option is what we have to do.  If that is still a bad option then it is time to work on that before the next election.

This happens in 2 party and multiple party systems.  As a voter in a multiple-party system I've voted for my second choice to be sure my worst choice didn't get in, it happens.

I understand that. I voted for the least worst many times on the second round of an election. But in the first round I always vote for my first choice and I don't think my vote was wasted since both candidates usually form coalitions for the second round. It's far from a perfect system, but it's better at giving a third our forth party a voice than the EC.

In 1992 New Zealand changed their representation structure to a more proportionate form. This was done by popular vote. America's system for selecting elected officials is a weird hybrid between rural British local election system and representation concessions to slavery to make the union be able to come together. It is flat out not intended to be representative, but a power brokered bargain. Changing to proportionate representation (by state or region/state grouping) coupled with ranked choice voting would lead to a much more representative government. The respective heads of major parties would be loathe to go for this now, even though it would give a future GOP more power and voice as demographics shift away from their chosen base. As it is, even with Trump magically gone, the polarization is baked into the system. It will continue to get worse as people increasingly see successive elections as more of an existential threat as our primary structure, political/identity alignments and media feedback loops (hellooooo facebook!) amplify the edges rather than the center. NZ has shown that it is possible to change your selection process for representatives and not explode as a country. It would obviously play out differently in the US, but our current system is increasingly set up to foster internal intra- and inter-branch conflict rather than compromise (the ultimate goal of democracy) and actual governance.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4419 on: September 30, 2020, 11:14:29 AM »
Some takeaways from the debate last night, which went off the rails very quickly. If another debate is done they will need to have muting of the mics etc, because it is clear Trump is unwilling (possibly unable?) to follow the rules (law and order and rules don't apply to him just others).. Anyways trump when asked if mail in voting was a safe secure way to vote, he would not. In fact he doubled down as well as stating he would like his supporters to "monitor" the polling places (aka intimidate, interfere with voters and poll workers). When asked for the record to condemn white supremacists (which the FBI has stated is a growing domestic threat as well as extremist group) he said instead "proud boys stand back, and stand by". When asked once the election is done and if his opponent won would he accept the results and have a peaceful transition, he would not!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 11:25:32 AM by partgypsy »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4420 on: September 30, 2020, 11:21:11 AM »


I gave up after the first 5 minutes.

I listened to every syllable (no TV).

Perhaps had I watched I would have turned it off.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4421 on: September 30, 2020, 11:26:23 AM »

Some takeaways from the debate last night, which went off the rails very quickly. If another debate is done they will need to have muting of the mics etc, because it is clear Trump is unwilling (possibly unable?) to follow the rules

Trump is so lacking in self-discipline that I think he is unable to comply with  time-limit  rules.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4422 on: September 30, 2020, 11:29:57 AM »

Some takeaways from the debate last night, which went off the rails very quickly. If another debate is done they will need to have muting of the mics etc, because it is clear Trump is unwilling (possibly unable?) to follow the rules

Trump is so lacking in self-discipline that I think he is unable to comply with  time-limit  rules.

I vote "unwilling" instead. Yesterday everyone was talking about Trump's tax evasion. Today it's just how awful the debate was, with a lot of "on both sides" being thrown around.

Intentionally doing something outrageous to distract from something actually truly scandalous has been Trump's mode of operation for the last 4 years.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4423 on: September 30, 2020, 11:44:56 AM »
There is going to be a lot more violence now that he explicitly gave a call-to-arms to white supremacist groups on national television.

The white supremacists are certainly happy about it.

What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.

We live in a very red area. Lots of MAGA around. Love the place, not so thrilled with the politics. We'd like to publicly support Biden and team but we dare not put out a yard sign or put a bumper sticker on the car lest we find our property damaged or ruined. It is a tiny but very vocal group who are the most dangerous. We'll still vote for Biden though.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4424 on: September 30, 2020, 12:14:43 PM »
There is going to be a lot more violence now that he explicitly gave a call-to-arms to white supremacist groups on national television.

The white supremacists are certainly happy about it.

What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.

We live in a very red area. Lots of MAGA around. Love the place, not so thrilled with the politics. We'd like to publicly support Biden and team but we dare not put out a yard sign or put a bumper sticker on the car lest we find our property damaged or ruined. It is a tiny but very vocal group who are the most dangerous. We'll still vote for Biden though.

Secret ballot for the win.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4425 on: September 30, 2020, 12:20:30 PM »
Sometimes voting for the least worst option is what we have to do.  If that is still a bad option then it is time to work on that before the next election.

This happens in 2 party and multiple party systems.  As a voter in a multiple-party system I've voted for my second choice to be sure my worst choice didn't get in, it happens.

I understand that. I voted for the least worst many times on the second round of an election. But in the first round I always vote for my first choice and I don't think my vote was wasted since both candidates usually form coalitions for the second round. It's far from a perfect system, but it's better at giving a third our forth party a voice than the EC.

We don't have second rounds, or ranked ballots.  So if person/party 1 gets 35% and  party 2 gets 25%, that leaves 40% for party 3 to grab that seat.  If you really don't want party 3, you vote for party 1 to improve their 35%.  And this is why so many Canadians are pulling for a better system than "first past the post".

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4426 on: September 30, 2020, 12:25:27 PM »

Some takeaways from the debate last night, which went off the rails very quickly. If another debate is done they will need to have muting of the mics etc, because it is clear Trump is unwilling (possibly unable?) to follow the rules

Trump is so lacking in self-discipline that I think he is unable to comply with  time-limit  rules.
I think it was calculated to prevent Biden from being able to speak and show himself uninterrupted. This has been a strategy from the start. It matters more that he suck the air out of the room than that the debate actually be a conversation. He won't lose his base by being a drunk-uncle character, but he did prevent Biden from being able to speak cogently at length and seem presidential. All he could really do is seem less crazy than Trump... The news today is not a discussion of Biden policy or really much at all about Biden. That is a win for Trump.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4427 on: September 30, 2020, 12:36:51 PM »
Glenstache, I totally agree with you this being calculated. I almost wonder if Chris Wallace wasn't part of it. He was the moderator and should have stopped the nonsense. Trump should have been kicked off stage.

How are they going to have two more debates if Trump does this tyrant child brat act twice more? I think they should ditch the debates and just do a one on one question answer thing individually. This is totally unfair to Biden to be talked over by a school yard bully.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4428 on: September 30, 2020, 01:00:46 PM »
He's displayed just that at the debate. Could he go 30 seconds without interrupting anyone? Next time I hope they mute the microphone when the other candidate is speaking! It seems that Trump's tactic was to constantly interrupt and break the rules of the debate, only to claim bias when he's called out.

Both parties have to agree to the rules of the debate beforehand or there wouldn't be a debate, and I bet you ever dollar I have that the Trump campaign would never agree to a debate where the moderator could mute the mic of the person who's not supposed to talk. This is how it is because this is how Trump wants it.

I disagree.  Trump has proven to be too much of a narcissit to refuse a nationally televised chance to attack his opponent, and the polls show that he desperately needs to move the needle,  and quickly. Trump's base has been clamoring for more debates on the hope that Biden would have some sort of senior moment that could "prove" their theory that he's senile.
IMO the network could have and should have cut off each debator's respective microphones whenever it was not their turn to speak.  But Wallace said publicly that he wanted to be "as invisible as possible" and let the debate play out on its own.  Which is what happened.

I don't think anyone was well served by last night's sideshow.  Had each candidate been allowed to (and forced to) speak uninterrupted for 2 minute stretches followed by a rebutal (which is what both sides actually agreed to in the debate rules) the public would have been better served.

Well it looks like we might find out. The Commission on Presidential Debates has said:
Quote
Last nightís debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues. The CPD will be carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly.

And Biden's in:
Quote
I just hope thereís a way in which the debate commission can control the ability of us to answer the question without interruption. Iím not going to speculate what happens in the second or third debate. My hope is theyíre able to literally ó say the question is asked of Trump, hereís a microphone, he has two minutes to answer the question. No one else has the microphone. I donít know what the rules will be Ö but Iím looking forward to it.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4429 on: September 30, 2020, 01:01:03 PM »
If Joe Biden is asking for my vote, then he should have to go through these debates. Trump is obnoxious, but I'm hiring someone who will have to go toe-to-toe with Berlusconi and Erdogan.

Besides, it's still better than Sec. Clinton having to look at the women who conducted affairs with her husband in the front row. What she went through in her debates was positively hellacious.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 01:03:14 PM by talltexan »

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4430 on: September 30, 2020, 01:04:44 PM »



What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.





It wasn't all that long ago when wrongheaded churchgoers were the white supremacists.

Having said that I don't worry about Ku Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and their ilk forming an alliance  with certain churches bent on killing those opposed to their white supremacist ideology.

In the 1920s Ku Kluxers numbered in the millions.

Today they number  5000-6000.

That's progress.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 01:11:27 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4431 on: September 30, 2020, 01:07:56 PM »
If Joe Biden is asking for my vote, then he should have to go through these debates. Trump is obnoxious, but I'm hiring someone who will have to go toe-to-toe with Berlusconi and Erdogan.

Besides, it's still better than Sec. Clinton having to look at the women who conducted affairs with her husband in the front row. What she went through in her debates was positively hellacious.

Biden has said every time he's ever been asked that he's looking forward to and definitely going to do the debates. If the debates don't happen it'll be because Trump refuses to participate.

Davnasty

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4432 on: September 30, 2020, 01:11:19 PM »



What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.





It wasn't all that long ago when wrongheaded churchgoers were the white supremacists.

Having said that I don't worry about Ku Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and their ilk forming an alliance  with certain churches bent on killing those opposed to their white supremacist ideology.

In the 1920s Ku Kluxers numbered in the millions.

Today they number  ~5000-6000.

That's progress.

The kkk is far from the only white nationalist organization in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_white_nationalist_organizations#United_States

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4433 on: September 30, 2020, 01:19:20 PM »



What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.





It wasn't all that long ago when wrongheaded churchgoers were the white supremacists.

Having said that I don't worry about Ku Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and their ilk forming an alliance  with certain churches bent on killing those opposed to their white supremacist ideology.

In the 1920s Ku Kluxers numbered in the millions.

Today they number  5000-6000.

That's progress.

It's not really about the Klan or Proud Boys or Patriot Prayer members who officially belong to a group. It's the hangers-on who agree with them and want their team to "win."

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/10/17670992/study-white-americans-alt-right-racism-white-nationalists

Quote from: vox
Whether or not they would describe themselves as alt-right, Hawley argues, they share the movementís belief in a politics that promotes white interests above those of other racial groups.

If Hawley is right, then the alt-rightís constituency isnít a tiny fringe. Itís about 11 million Americans.

Some fine people:



We won't be driving our Prius with a Biden sticker through certain areas in the south. SO's hippie parents live in a small town red area but they drive pickups. And pack.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4434 on: September 30, 2020, 01:25:57 PM »



What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.





It wasn't all that long ago when wrongheaded churchgoers were the white supremacists.

Having said that I don't worry about Ku Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and their ilk forming an alliance  with certain churches bent on killing those opposed to their white supremacist ideology.

In the 1920s Ku Kluxers numbered in the millions.

Today they number  ~5000-6000.

That's progress.

The kkk is far from the only white nationalist organization in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_white_nationalist_organizations#United_States


Immigrations and Customs Enforcement made the list.  :D

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4435 on: September 30, 2020, 02:14:07 PM »



What a shitshow that'll be when Jesus churches line up with white supremacists to intimidate or kill anyone who might not support their version of America.





It wasn't all that long ago when wrongheaded churchgoers were the white supremacists.

Having said that I don't worry about Ku Kluxers, neo-Nazis, and their ilk forming an alliance  with certain churches bent on killing those opposed to their white supremacist ideology.

In the 1920s Ku Kluxers numbered in the millions.

Today they number  5000-6000.

That's progress.

It's not really about the Klan or Proud Boys or Patriot Prayer members who officially belong to a group. It's the hangers-on who agree with them and want their team to "win."

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/10/17670992/study-white-americans-alt-right-racism-white-nationalists

Quote from: vox
Whether or not they would describe themselves as alt-right, Hawley argues, they share the movementís belief in a politics that promotes white interests above those of other racial groups.

If Hawley is right, then the alt-rightís constituency isnít a tiny fringe. Itís about 11 million Americans.

Some fine people:



We won't be driving our Prius with a Biden sticker through certain areas in the south. SO's hippie parents live in a small town red area but they drive pickups. And pack.

Yep, it's the ones who are too smart to affiliate officially with the KKK, Proud Boys, and similar or to wear the Stars and Bars that are the real problem. They're flying under the radar, amassing arsenals in their homes, and spewing toxic bullshit in between prayin' to Jeebus on Sunday and Wednesday night.

I'm still planning to work on Election Day, but we definitely have some Good Ol' Boys (and gals) in the neighborhood, and there may be trouble. I hope our voters of color and in hijab will avail themselves of early voting for their own safety. Fuck Trump and fuck his supporters.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4436 on: September 30, 2020, 03:16:25 PM »
He's displayed just that at the debate. Could he go 30 seconds without interrupting anyone? Next time I hope they mute the microphone when the other candidate is speaking! It seems that Trump's tactic was to constantly interrupt and break the rules of the debate, only to claim bias when he's called out.

Both parties have to agree to the rules of the debate beforehand or there wouldn't be a debate, and I bet you ever dollar I have that the Trump campaign would never agree to a debate where the moderator could mute the mic of the person who's not supposed to talk. This is how it is because this is how Trump wants it.

I disagree.  Trump has proven to be too much of a narcissit to refuse a nationally televised chance to attack his opponent, and the polls show that he desperately needs to move the needle,  and quickly. Trump's base has been clamoring for more debates on the hope that Biden would have some sort of senior moment that could "prove" their theory that he's senile.
IMO the network could have and should have cut off each debator's respective microphones whenever it was not their turn to speak.  But Wallace said publicly that he wanted to be "as invisible as possible" and let the debate play out on its own.  Which is what happened.

I don't think anyone was well served by last night's sideshow.  Had each candidate been allowed to (and forced to) speak uninterrupted for 2 minute stretches followed by a rebutal (which is what both sides actually agreed to in the debate rules) the public would have been better served.

Well it looks like we might find out. The Commission on Presidential Debates has said:
Quote
Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues. The CPD will be carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly.

And Biden's in:
Quote
I just hope there’s a way in which the debate commission can control the ability of us to answer the question without interruption. I’m not going to speculate what happens in the second or third debate. My hope is they’re able to literally — say the question is asked of Trump, here’s a microphone, he has two minutes to answer the question. No one else has the microphone. I don’t know what the rules will be … but I’m looking forward to it.

Oops, I didn't see this earlier, Trump's campaign has weighed in too:
Quote
They’re only doing this because their guy got pummeled last night. President Trump was the dominant force and now Joe Biden is trying to work the refs. They shouldn’t be moving the goalposts and changing the rules in the middle of the game.

So there you have it, they like the way that debate went, and any attempt to mute mics to abide by the agreed-upon rules is going to be "changing the rules to help Biden."
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 03:18:09 PM by sherr »

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4437 on: September 30, 2020, 05:52:41 PM »
So Trump obviously broke the mutually agreed upon rules (each has 2 minutes to speak uninterrupted) is now Biden moving the goalposts? That's rich.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 06:22:22 AM by partgypsy »

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4438 on: October 01, 2020, 04:58:54 AM »
Oops, I didn't see this earlier, Trump's campaign has weighed in too:
Quote
Theyíre only doing this because their guy got pummeled last night. President Trump was the dominant force and now Joe Biden is trying to work the refs. They shouldnít be moving the goalposts and changing the rules in the middle of the game.

So there you have it, they like the way that debate went, and any attempt to mute mics to abide by the agreed-upon rules is going to be "changing the rules to help Biden."
Sure they liked it. They didn't elect and continue to support Trump because he is an honorable, respectable and mature adult. He put that lib in his place. 

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4439 on: October 01, 2020, 06:06:14 AM »
I think Trump's relentless interruptions were calibrated to provoke stuttering from Biden.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4440 on: October 01, 2020, 06:28:49 AM »
I think Trump's relentless interruptions were calibrated to provoke stuttering from Biden.

Perhaps. I think that's just Trump's nature as well. Whenever someone talks about how Trump behaves in closed door briefings, it seems to be very similar. Interrupting and going on tangents. 

Biden did mix his words up at times. But I think he got some of his points across without feeding too much into the tantrums.

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4441 on: October 01, 2020, 07:27:30 AM »
I think that was Trump's entire game plan going into the debate. He shunned debate prep and instead relied on his instincts...which were to try to prove that Biden is in mental decline. He hoped to accomplish this by constant interruptions, over-talking, refusing to adhere to the agreed-upon rules, etc. in order to attempt to get Biden to stumble. In some ways, it worked as Biden at times had difficulty finishing thoughts...but honestly, who could hear themselves think and produce coherent sentences with a toddler screaming at you through a microphone?

Davnasty

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4442 on: October 01, 2020, 07:40:56 AM »
I think that was Trump's entire game plan going into the debate. He shunned debate prep and instead relied on his instincts...which were to try to prove that Biden is in mental decline. He hoped to accomplish this by constant interruptions, over-talking, refusing to adhere to the agreed-upon rules, etc. in order to attempt to get Biden to stumble. In some ways, it worked as Biden at times had difficulty finishing thoughts...but honestly, who could hear themselves think and produce coherent sentences with a toddler screaming at you through a microphone?

Yep, even when Trump stayed quiet for small stretches you could tell Biden was speaking as if he would be cut off at any second. That makes it really hard to maintain a train of thought.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4443 on: October 01, 2020, 07:46:33 AM »
So Trump obviously broke the mutually agreed upon rules (each has 2 minutes to speak uninterrupted) is now Biden moving the goalposts? That's rich.

That sounds about right to Trumpian logic. Of course I doubt he and his team believe this but he'll say this and his supporters will eat this up.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4444 on: October 01, 2020, 07:46:58 AM »
I think that was Trump's entire game plan going into the debate. He shunned debate prep and instead relied on his instincts...which were to try to prove that Biden is in mental decline. He hoped to accomplish this by constant interruptions, over-talking, refusing to adhere to the agreed-upon rules, etc. in order to attempt to get Biden to stumble. In some ways, it worked as Biden at times had difficulty finishing thoughts...but honestly, who could hear themselves think and produce coherent sentences with a toddler screaming at you through a microphone?

Yep, even when Trump stayed quiet for small stretches you could tell Biden was speaking as if he would be cut off at any second. That makes it really hard to maintain a train of thought.

Agreed. I honestly don't know how he did it. I couldn't have.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4445 on: October 01, 2020, 08:19:07 AM »
On the other hand Trump still today has a 92% approval rating among Republicans, and my parent's church is currently telling people they have to be willing to take up arms to "dispatch" the "Marxists who want to take away your freedom" in the oncoming "inevitable and just" Civil War II, so there's absolutely a lot of blame to spread around on the right for Trump.

How much are you willing to bet that not one of them has read a complete Marx book?


This is really rediculous. Biden should just go on talking during his 2 minutes and completely ignore Trump. And of course Trump is free to do the same.
I agree that it was never his intention to actually debate. All Trump can do is intimidate and derail his opponent.
If he behaves like a tantrum baby, react to him like he is one.



sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4446 on: October 01, 2020, 08:26:31 AM »
On the other hand Trump still today has a 92% approval rating among Republicans, and my parent's church is currently telling people they have to be willing to take up arms to "dispatch" the "Marxists who want to take away your freedom" in the oncoming "inevitable and just" Civil War II, so there's absolutely a lot of blame to spread around on the right for Trump.

How much are you willing to bet that not one of them has read a complete Marx book?

Oh they absolutely haven't, I guarantee it. But being opposed to "socialism"/"Marxism" is not the truly evil thing here, even if it's coming from a place of complete ignorance / propaganda. It's the intent of inciting a Civil War to murder your political opponents that is truly evil.

economista

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4447 on: October 01, 2020, 12:25:11 PM »
I am going to need a hiatus from facebook for awhile because I keep getting irate when I see my family members posting about the debate. From their "pro-trump" points of view:

1) The moderator was obviously biased and only tried to ask him "gotcha" questions
2) He was debating the moderator more than he was debating Biden and the moderator should lose his job at Fox News
3) The moderator wouldn't allow him to respond to anything and constantly cut him off but never cut off Biden
4) Trump was the only person on stage who looked "Presidential" - Biden looked like a pathetic wimp
5) Trump was the dominant force on stage and really showed Biden whose boss
6) After that debate every American should be voting for Trump
7) Biden refused to have his ears checked for speakers and has been caught wearing a wire before so he wasn't the real person speaking he was just parroting what they were saying to him through his nude-colored speaker (WTF?!?!?!)
8) Trump was simply answering questions in a normal manner but Biden was purposely acting like wimp so it made Trump look like a bully (WTF?!)

...and it goes on and on. This is just the things I saw this morning! My great aunt, who I love dearly, purchased a giant Trump 2020 flag and replaced her American Flag with it. Then she made a post about how Trump is the best President we have ever had and the debate exemplified that. I just can't take it anymore.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4448 on: October 01, 2020, 12:45:51 PM »
7) Biden refused to have his ears checked for speakers and has been caught wearing a wire before so he wasn't the real person speaking he was just parroting what they were saying to him through his nude-colored speaker (WTF?!?!?!)

I've also heard that he had an advanced tooth mic on one of his molars. Did you notice how we was holding his jaw?!?

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4449 on: October 01, 2020, 12:53:15 PM »
I am going to need a hiatus from facebook for awhile because I keep getting irate when I see my family members posting about the debate. From their "pro-trump" points of view:

1) The moderator was obviously biased and only tried to ask him "gotcha" questions
2) He was debating the moderator more than he was debating Biden and the moderator should lose his job at Fox News
3) The moderator wouldn't allow him to respond to anything and constantly cut him off but never cut off Biden
4) Trump was the only person on stage who looked "Presidential" - Biden looked like a pathetic wimp
5) Trump was the dominant force on stage and really showed Biden whose boss
6) After that debate every American should be voting for Trump
7) Biden refused to have his ears checked for speakers and has been caught wearing a wire before so he wasn't the real person speaking he was just parroting what they were saying to him through his nude-colored speaker (WTF?!?!?!)
8) Trump was simply answering questions in a normal manner but Biden was purposely acting like wimp so it made Trump look like a bully (WTF?!)

...and it goes on and on. This is just the things I saw this morning! My great aunt, who I love dearly, purchased a giant Trump 2020 flag and replaced her American Flag with it. Then she made a post about how Trump is the best President we have ever had and the debate exemplified that. I just can't take it anymore.
I mean, we all know that Fox Anchors such as Chris Wallace who asked gotcha questions like "will you denounce white supremacists" are clearly members of the Deep State. Qanon told us so. /s

Snark aside, news out of Texas, where governor Abbott is reducing ballot  drop boxes to one per county (Houston gets one, for example) is likely a preview of things to come in other states.
https://www.newsandguts.com/texas-gop-gov-orders-early-voting-drop-off-locations-closed/

The election may be rigged, but not in the direction Trump is claiming.