Trump outrage of the day

[Travis]

Right, because an overabundance of affordable housing is really the most urgent problem our nation is facing right now.

From the great mind that brought you "if we stop testing for Covid our numbers will stop going up" comes "if you stop building places for the poors to live, the poors won't live anywhere!".

"Suburban Lifestyle Dream" (capitalization in the original).  Is the prelude to an "I have a dream" speech?

[Glenstache]

Right, because an overabundance of affordable housing is really the most urgent problem our nation is facing right now.

From the great mind that brought you "if we stop testing for Covid our numbers will stop going up" comes "if you stop building places for the poors to live, the poors won't live anywhere!".

"Suburban Lifestyle Dream" (capitalization in the original).  Is the prelude to an "I have a dream" speech?

yes, but this one is co-authored by a Karen.

[Glenstache]

Here we go. Chicago, Kansas City, and Albuquerque (or at least those are the ones advertised).

BBCNews: Trump to send 'surge' of federal agents to US cities

Election timing and city selection aside (and assuming that this really is related to "real crime" and not to protests) to send federal law enforcement man power and resources to assist local law enforcement where crime is a big problem seems like generally a good thing?

(I'm not american, so I don't really know how these things are normally handled and what problems I don't see).

Feds are being sent to cities as part of operation "Legend" to assist law enforcement.

The Feds in Portland are part of operation "Diligent Valor."

What the poster that followed you failed to mention was that for, 60 days at this point, the protestors have attempted to break into the Federal courthouse.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1288014201240162304

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1287919951882227712

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1287921472304865280

Also Oregon attempted to bring a Federal lawsuit to prevent the feds from operating at the courthouse.

The judge pointed out that CBP has "Police" clearly marked on their uniforms, a form of ID is also clearly prevalent, and the AG of Oregon could only find two cases of people being picked up by unmarked vehicles. (The point here being if this was happening in larger numbers then they should have more than two.)

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ord.153632/gov.uscourts.ord.153632.23.0_2.pdf

That Oregon woman was most likely not read her rights because she was told to disperse and refused to. She was caught in doing a criminal act and was not being investigated.

For a different take, you may also want to do some reading on the Boogaloo Bois (known also by quite a number of phonetically similar things referencing igloos, etc). They have been showing up at protests and acting to incite. A google search will provide much reading. For example:
https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/boogaloo-bois-americas-newest-extremist-threat-1.72112068
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xg8g87/the-us-military-has-a-boogaloo-problem


Even Barr thinks they are showing up to incite violence, though he conflates them with anitifa, which is a bit of a stretch:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ag-barr-task-force-counter-anti-government-extremists

In the video you linked showing the person throwing an explosive at the building, they are clearly wearing an olive colored tactical flak vest. This is a pretty specialized piece of gear that your average protestor in support of BLM is not real likely to pick up for the occasion. That looked a lot more like a provocateur than a protester.

[bacchi]

Everything I think he can't sink lower: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288509568578777088?s=20

He's wildly flailing, trying to stop the suburban vote drain.

The ‘wildly flailing’ part is what worries me.  Biden has a larger lead at this point than Obama did in ‘08, but Trump’s shown he will push past all political norms, and few in his own party will stand up to him.  He’s certainly no shy about using leavers of government for personal gain (or to attack perceived foes).  And right now he’s got toadies sitting in all the important offices.

What outrages are yet to come as the election draws closer?

As an expert in everything, he'll ignore his campaign staff and try anything. It's pretty random at this point as to whether he can find something that will stick before he does something that backfires spectacularly.

Barr did hire John Bash to dig up something on Obama/Biden. Maybe Durham wasn't working out for the Republicans?

[js82]

@sherr , it sounds like you're suggesting involving Carson in the pandemic response wouldn't have improved it very much.

Surgeons and epidemiologists/public health professionals are very different occupations, with very different knowledge/skill sets.  A good surgeon needs to be meticulous, detail-oriented, and have knowledge of anatomy, but doesn't need to be competent when it comes to understanding complex data sets, or the mechanics of the spread of infectious diseases.  The latter skills are essential for epidemiologists.

The main thing Carson could bring to the table is practical insider knowledge of how hospitals operate.  But there's a lot of people who can bring that to the table if you're willing to listen to them.

[Travis]

@sherr , it sounds like you're suggesting involving Carson in the pandemic response wouldn't have improved it very much.

Surgeons and epidemiologists/public health professionals are very different occupations, with very different knowledge/skill sets.  A good surgeon needs to be meticulous, detail-oriented, and have knowledge of anatomy, but doesn't need to be competent when it comes to understanding complex data sets, or the mechanics of the spread of infectious diseases.  The latter skills are essential for epidemiologists.

The main thing Carson could bring to the table is practical insider knowledge of how hospitals operate.  But there's a lot of people who can bring that to the table if you're willing to listen to them.

One of the Republican narratives that's been going around is that since Fauci doesn't see patients, he has no credibility. Apparently the people making this claim don't know what the fuck a general practitioner doctor means/does.  Everything my primary care manager knows about viruses probably comes from Fauci or doctors like him that spend their lives doing the research and writing the literal textbooks.

[LennStar]

Right, because an overabundance of affordable housing is really the most urgent problem our nation is facing right now.

From the great mind that brought you "if we stop testing for Covid our numbers will stop going up" comes "if you stop building places for the poors to live, the poors won't live anywhere!".

The law in it's holy glory forbids everyone to steal bread and sleep under bridges, the rich the same as the beggars.

But there's a lot of people who can bring that to the table if you're willing to listen to them.

But the majority of them are Democrats! They are the enemy!! Don't listen to the enemy!!!

[gentmach]

Here we go. Chicago, Kansas City, and Albuquerque (or at least those are the ones advertised).

BBCNews: Trump to send 'surge' of federal agents to US cities

Election timing and city selection aside (and assuming that this really is related to "real crime" and not to protests) to send federal law enforcement man power and resources to assist local law enforcement where crime is a big problem seems like generally a good thing?

(I'm not american, so I don't really know how these things are normally handled and what problems I don't see).

Feds are being sent to cities as part of operation "Legend" to assist law enforcement.

The Feds in Portland are part of operation "Diligent Valor."

What the poster that followed you failed to mention was that for, 60 days at this point, the protestors have attempted to break into the Federal courthouse.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1288014201240162304

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1287919951882227712

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1287921472304865280

Also Oregon attempted to bring a Federal lawsuit to prevent the feds from operating at the courthouse.

The judge pointed out that CBP has "Police" clearly marked on their uniforms, a form of ID is also clearly prevalent, and the AG of Oregon could only find two cases of people being picked up by unmarked vehicles. (The point here being if this was happening in larger numbers then they should have more than two.)

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ord.153632/gov.uscourts.ord.153632.23.0_2.pdf

That Oregon woman was most likely not read her rights because she was told to disperse and refused to. She was caught in doing a criminal act and was not being investigated.

For a different take, you may also want to do some reading on the Boogaloo Bois (known also by quite a number of phonetically similar things referencing igloos, etc). They have been showing up at protests and acting to incite. A google search will provide much reading. For example:
https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/boogaloo-bois-americas-newest-extremist-threat-1.72112068
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xg8g87/the-us-military-has-a-boogaloo-problem


Even Barr thinks they are showing up to incite violence, though he conflates them with anitifa, which is a bit of a stretch:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ag-barr-task-force-counter-anti-government-extremists

In the video you linked showing the person throwing an explosive at the building, they are clearly wearing an olive colored tactical flak vest. This is a pretty specialized piece of gear that your average protestor in support of BLM is not real likely to pick up for the occasion. That looked a lot more like a provocateur than a protester.

I am aware of the Boogaloo Boys.

Allegedly his grandmother bought it for him.

He also defended the "Naked Athena" woman who was walking around naked. Literally hold a shield up in front of her and everything.
https://mobile.twitter.com/animegorilla/status/1288236446780989448

More photos of him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/animegorilla/status/1288233974742028293

Doesn't mean he isn't a Boogaloo Boy but it seems unlikely.

[nereo]

Is it Boogaloo Boys or Boogaloo Bois?

[gentmach]

Because rifles are never used for criminal activities??

I am just glad it wasn't an angel grinder as I first read. Well, new word learned.


Maybe instead of nitpicking who does which (il)legal activity, we should think about the why?
Generally thinks like storming a courthouse or week long protests (or for that matter, kidnappings by "police") don't happen out of thin air.
So why are those things happening? What do the people think and (probably more important) feel?

So - we get a police committed murder that highlights such lynching going on for centuries.

People start protesting.

And... there are some people who wants to spend more time talking about the opportunists in that protest than the centuries long injustice going on with fellow Americans!!!!

I'll have more respect for y'all if you straight up owned up to the KKK brand of White Supremacist rhetoric!!!

Or, would you have me believe that fence cutting with angle grinders is now a bigger crisis than the continuing incidents of police on someone's neck shouting "I can't breathe"???

I was talking about how the media was claiming that these were "peaceful protestors" that the police were arresting. At what point are they no longer peacefully protesting? Or are laws suspended right now?

Here are local leaders asking for an end to the violence, for people to come and actually negotiate.
https://www.kgw.com/mobile/article/news/local/protests/community-leaders-call-for-moratorium-on-violence-ask-for-conversation-with-protesters/283-4cf063e1-08fa-4664-8a2f-1942112d772d

So it is clearly a problem.

Nereo decided to strip my post of context and say "you're worried about the tools!" That was not the point. The point was there are rioters being arrested and the media is claiming "peaceful protesters are being arrested." The media lying about the situation is the point.

For the sake of the argument - let us assume the worst that you imply.

So, in this alternative world, a LOT of these protesters are violent. They have been violent for, maybe, 4 months. Before that, there were no protests. So, probably the violence won't continue for very long either.

Compare that to the issue they are protesting. A centuries long lynching and occupation of a part of the American population based on their physical attributes. Their political representation is suppressed by voter suppression. If you have a male teen, you have a much higher chance of police encounters and much higher chance of being shot during those encounters.

From all indications, this is likely to continue. Lives are likely to be lost for a few more centuries if nothing is done.

Which one is a bigger problem we should worry about? Centuries long occupation and loss of lives? Or statues and properties lost due to months long violence?

Should I start worrying about an itch on my arm when I have brain cancer??

It was 60 days or so in Portland. So two months.

The vast majority of protests are peaceful. The media has created this perception that random peaceful protestors are being yanked off the streets by law enforcement. They are purposefully leaving out context.

How will you know you have been cured of the problem if the people claiming you are sick are okay with lying to you? Would you keep going to a doctor who lies to you?

[former player]

How will you know you have been cured of the problem if the people claiming you are sick are okay with lying to you? Would you keep going to a doctor who lies to you?

Not a good analogy.  Many patients lie to their doctors, very few doctors lie to their patients.

[ctuser1]

The vast majority of protests are peaceful. The media has created this perception that random peaceful protestors are being yanked off the streets by law enforcement. They are purposefully leaving out context.

No. The media is not leaving out context. There is a legitimate double standard at play here (probably the only legitimate case of double standard I can think of) - the actions of the government are judged via a different standard compared to that of the protesters.

So, one case of unlawful action by the government can be (and in this case, in my opinion, is) more dangerous than 60 days of looting by protesters - because it sets a slippery slope precedent.

How will you know you have been cured of the problem if the people claiming you are sick are okay with lying to you? Would you keep going to a doctor who lies to you?

Which problem? The centuries long apartheid? Or the looting/rioting?

If the former - it is easy to understand when it is fixed. When black kids don't feel that the police are not an occupied force, then we would know it has been fixed. Cite: https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/will-smith-recalls-being-called-racial-slur-police-multiple-occasions-n1233457

I never saw the police as an occupation force, why should a black kid have to?

And you would know that the process of fixing this has started when you *know* that the infrastructure of voter suppression against the blacks have started being dismantled.

Or, are you still referring to the itch (60 days long "violent" protest) and ignoring the brain cancer (centuries long discrimination)?

So, why is there a dependency on others for "knowing"? Do you lack a moral compass and a sense of right and wrong within you??

[talltexan]

Right, because an overabundance of affordable housing is really the most urgent problem our nation is facing right now.

From the great mind that brought you "if we stop testing for Covid our numbers will stop going up" comes "if you stop building places for the poors to live, the poors won't live anywhere!".

The law in it's holy glory forbids everyone to steal bread and sleep under bridges, the rich the same as the beggars.

But there's a lot of people who can bring that to the table if you're willing to listen to them.

But the majority of them are Democrats! They are the enemy!! Don't listen to the enemy!!!

Literally every physician I ever met was a Republican. That may be a product of my username 8-)

[brandon1827]

I read an interesting blurb somewhere yesterday that flooding cities with a federal policing force was essentially another reelection tactic. Trump has been shouting "Law and Order" on his Twitter feed for weeks and is apparently attempting to cast himself as the law and order candidate in this election. These federal "troops" are being deployed mostly in Democratic leaning/led states and their purpose is to further his narrative of the radical left wing antifa mobs causing chaos in the cities and how he's the only person who can bring order to these situations. So you better vote for him or you'll have unrelenting violence and crime in the streets. They further this point showing very carefully selected pictures saying things like "this is what Biden's America will look like"...ironically not realizing that they're showing current pictures of Trump's America. I understand on a fundamental level that many politicians believe the generic voting populace to be uneducated and sort of dumb...but come on

[OtherJen]

Everything I think he can't sink lower: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288509568578777088?s=20

I did wonder what he was trying to deflect and cover: 3 Months Of Hell: U.S. Economy Drops 32.9%, In Worst GDP Report Ever

[MasterStache]

I chose Andy Ngo because he has helpfully curated videos. As I explained in the CHOP thread, these people are recording and live streaming everything. When video appears of an angle grinder being brought in to damage the fence at the courthouse, I don't think "angle grinder of peaceful protest."

I’ve never seen someone with an angle grinder on the street and felt physically threatened.

Assault rifles? Yup.  Angle Grinder? Nope.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1286915433828724736

Were they using the angle grinder to commit criminal activity? No? That changes things just a bit, doesn't it?

Right let's get all up in arms about cutting a fence with a saw. Meanwhile actual armed protesters stormed the state capital in Michigan to protest the stay-at-home order while chanting and holding up signs reading "Tyrants Get the Rope" in reference to governor Whitmer. What was the administrations reaction again? Oh yeah "Liberate Michigan!" Last I checked Brandishing is still in fact a law.

What the poster that followed you failed to mention was that for, 60 days at this point, the protestors have attempted to break into the Federal courthouse.

The largely peaceful protest had been winding down and deescalating before federal agents arrived. If you truly believe what you claim, then their attempts were unsuccessful and federal agents were not needed.

Make no mistake this is excellent publicity for Trump. Send federal agents into Dem run cities claiming they can't handle their protest. When violence ensues, albeit incited by extremist, blame it on the peaceful protesters and elements of the far-left, despite DHS reports.

[OtherJen]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

[Travis]

DoD announces plans for removal of 12,000 troops from Germany. Some will move to the US while others would move to Italy and Belgium. It would take years and probably cost a couple billion for new facilities. SECDEF Esper spins it as a strategic benefit. Trump gets on the mic and affirms everyone's suspicions that it's just a petty swipe at Merkel.


And still can't help himself from making it an election speech by ending with "and Biden sucks."

[turketron]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

[nereo]

Right, because an overabundance of affordable housing is really the most urgent problem our nation is facing right now.

From the great mind that brought you "if we stop testing for Covid our numbers will stop going up" comes "if you stop building places for the poors to live, the poors won't live anywhere!".

The law in it's holy glory forbids everyone to steal bread and sleep under bridges, the rich the same as the beggars.

But there's a lot of people who can bring that to the table if you're willing to listen to them.

But the majority of them are Democrats! They are the enemy!! Don't listen to the enemy!!!

Literally every physician I ever met was a Republican. That may be a product of my username 8-)

My father is a physician, an immigrant, and a democrat.  But I can attest that he's vastly outnumbered by his republican counterparts at every medical function.

[Glenstache]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

Trump is the asshole that the founding fathers were worried about.

[OtherJen]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

[Dancin'Dog]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"? 

[OtherJen]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

I was being generous, although I'm not sure why.

[Lews Therin]

Everything I think he can't sink lower: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288509568578777088?s=20

I did wonder what he was trying to deflect and cover: 3 Months Of Hell: U.S. Economy Drops 32.9%, In Worst GDP Report Ever

HOLY CRAP. This is gonna be rough on the world. When US goes down, it takes the world market with it.

[caracarn]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

I was being generous, although I'm not sure why.

If this came to pass, I would feel this would actually have the possibility of pressing things to a bad enough state where civil war is actually a possibility.  I would be vehemently opposed and would be giving consideration to separating from states that felt this was appropriate.  I am quite conservative and given that I am considering this in this context that is how I arrive at the fact that if Congress was stupid enough to grant this, that would be the beginning of the end.  Praying it will never come to that, but 96 days is a long time with this person in the presidency.

[caracarn]

Everything I think he can't sink lower: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288509568578777088?s=20

I did wonder what he was trying to deflect and cover: 3 Months Of Hell: U.S. Economy Drops 32.9%, In Worst GDP Report Ever

HOLY CRAP. This is gonna be rough on the world. When US goes down, it takes the world market with it.

This is better than I expected.  Not sure that anyone is surprised.  Dow only down between 1-2%, so it seems a bit baked in already.  It's not as if people had no idea this was coming.  Therefore it should only be rough on the parts of the world that were not aware of the virus and the shutdowns everyone went through.  Since none of those places have stock markets, I am not expecting much but the normal panic selling and then buybacks in the next few days.

[nereo]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

Well there is SCOTUS.  They've handed down a number of verdicts against Trump in the last year.
Not saying they can or would here... but just a 'maybe'.  Roberts seems to have lost patience with Trump's claims that he can do whatever he wants with no oversight in various matters.

[OtherJen]

Everything I think he can't sink lower: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288509568578777088?s=20

I did wonder what he was trying to deflect and cover: 3 Months Of Hell: U.S. Economy Drops 32.9%, In Worst GDP Report Ever

HOLY CRAP. This is gonna be rough on the world. When US goes down, it takes the world market with it.

This is better than I expected.  Not sure that anyone is surprised.  Dow only down between 1-2%, so it seems a bit baked in already.  It's not as if people had no idea this was coming.  Therefore it should only be rough on the parts of the world that were not aware of the virus and the shutdowns everyone went through.  Since none of those places have stock markets, I am not expecting much but the normal panic selling and then buybacks in the next few days.

It's not surprising, but it's a harsh headline for an incumbent president who's platform was partly built on his "strong" economy.

[JLee]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

Well there is SCOTUS.  They've handed down a number of verdicts against Trump in the last year.
Not saying they can or would here... but just a 'maybe'.  Roberts seems to have lost patience with Trump's claims that he can do whatever he wants with no oversight in various matters.

Does SCOTUS matter?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/daca-donald-trump-supreme-court.html

[gentmach]

How will you know you have been cured of the problem if the people claiming you are sick are okay with lying to you? Would you keep going to a doctor who lies to you?

Not a good analogy.  Many patients lie to their doctors, very few doctors lie to their patients.

How will he know the problem has been fixed if he is relying on sources that are okay with lying to him?

The vast majority of protests are peaceful. The media has created this perception that random peaceful protestors are being yanked off the streets by law enforcement. They are purposefully leaving out context.

No. The media is not leaving out context. There is a legitimate double standard at play here (probably the only legitimate case of double standard I can think of) - the actions of the government are judged via a different standard compared to that of the protesters.

So, one case of unlawful action by the government can be (and in this case, in my opinion, is) more dangerous than 60 days of looting by protesters - because it sets a slippery slope precedent.

How will you know you have been cured of the problem if the people claiming you are sick are okay with lying to you? Would you keep going to a doctor who lies to you?

Which problem? The centuries long apartheid? Or the looting/rioting?

If the former - it is easy to understand when it is fixed. When black kids don't feel that the police are not an occupied force, then we would know it has been fixed. Cite: https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/will-smith-recalls-being-called-racial-slur-police-multiple-occasions-n1233457

I never saw the police as an occupation force, why should a black kid have to?

And you would know that the process of fixing this has started when you *know* that the infrastructure of voter suppression against the blacks have started being dismantled.

Or, are you still referring to the itch (60 days long "violent" protest) and ignoring the brain cancer (centuries long discrimination)?

So, why is there a dependency on others for "knowing"? Do you lack a moral compass and a sense of right and wrong within you??

We will go your way.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-lives-white-spectacle-portland-protests-have-lost-focus-civil-n1234886

Why are black leaders calling the protests a "white spectacle" at this point? Why do they feel ignored? Why is the NAACP criticizing "mostly white anarchists"?

It seems the people the protests are supposed to help feel mostly neglected by them. Why would that be?

I chose Andy Ngo because he has helpfully curated videos. As I explained in the CHOP thread, these people are recording and live streaming everything. When video appears of an angle grinder being brought in to damage the fence at the courthouse, I don't think "angle grinder of peaceful protest."

I’ve never seen someone with an angle grinder on the street and felt physically threatened.

Assault rifles? Yup.  Angle Grinder? Nope.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1286915433828724736

Were they using the angle grinder to commit criminal activity? No? That changes things just a bit, doesn't it?

Right let's get all up in arms about cutting a fence with a saw. Meanwhile actual armed protesters stormed the state capital in Michigan to protest the stay-at-home order while chanting and holding up signs reading "Tyrants Get the Rope" in reference to governor Whitmer. What was the administrations reaction again? Oh yeah "Liberate Michigan!" Last I checked Brandishing is still in fact a law.

What the poster that followed you failed to mention was that for, 60 days at this point, the protestors have attempted to break into the Federal courthouse.

The largely peaceful protest had been winding down and deescalating before federal agents arrived. If you truly believe what you claim, then their attempts were unsuccessful and federal agents were not needed.

Make no mistake this is excellent publicity for Trump. Send federal agents into Dem run cities claiming they can't handle their protest. When violence ensues, albeit incited by extremist, blame it on the peaceful protesters and elements of the far-left, despite DHS reports.

Rioters broke into the courthouse on July 3rd. This was an escalation.
https://katu.com/news/local/portland-police-declare-riot-after-demonstrators-target-federal-courthouse

Although it is a moot point since Oregon governor sent in State cops to protect the Federal courthouse and Portland Mayor agreed to allow Portland Police to do their jobs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/us/protests-portland-federal-withdrawal.html

So after 60 days of protests, the protestors demands of
1. Ted Wheeler resigning. (He did not.)
2. Feds leaving the city completely. (They will leave when they are satisfied with the states job. The usual team will remain station there.)
3. Defund the police. (They got 15 million cut instead of the 50 million they were demanding.)

And the State cops are now stationed in the city. They actually got more cops to show up instead of less.

Mission Accomplished!

[talltexan]

Right, because an overabundance of affordable housing is really the most urgent problem our nation is facing right now.

From the great mind that brought you "if we stop testing for Covid our numbers will stop going up" comes "if you stop building places for the poors to live, the poors won't live anywhere!".

The law in it's holy glory forbids everyone to steal bread and sleep under bridges, the rich the same as the beggars.

But there's a lot of people who can bring that to the table if you're willing to listen to them.

But the majority of them are Democrats! They are the enemy!! Don't listen to the enemy!!!

Literally every physician I ever met was a Republican. That may be a product of my username 8-)

My father is a physician, an immigrant, and a democrat.  But I can attest that he's vastly outnumbered by his republican counterparts at every medical function.

My college roommate was the son of a doctor (grew up in a white farming family) and is now a doctor himself. In the early 2000s, He explained to me that most doctors carried a grudge against Democrats because of the politics of how Medicare and Medicaid were structured, in which they felt that the Federal government basically fixed their prices and forced them to treat patients who were unlikely to be profitable.

Since then, we've had Medicare Part D, the Affordable Care Act, and the Federal restructuring of the student loan market (most doctors rely on debt to complete their training) so it's entirely possible things have changed. And of course, there's what's going on with COVID. It would not surprise me at all if this period results in a mass exodus of doctors from the Republican party the way the LBJ programs drove them right-ward two generations ago.

[JLee]

So after 60 days of protests, the protestors demands of
1. Ted Wheeler resigning. (He did not.)
2. Feds leaving the city completely. (They will leave when they are satisfied with the states job. The usual team will remain station there.)
3. Defund the police. (They got 15 million cut instead of the 50 million they were demanding.)

And the State cops are now stationed in the city. They actually got more cops to show up instead of less.

Mission Accomplished!

What's your point, that people should not protest at all because they might not get what they want immediately?

"Protesters succeed with a 15 million dollar budget cut to police" just doesn't have the same ring to it as implying they're failing, I guess.

[bacchi]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

Well there is SCOTUS.  They've handed down a number of verdicts against Trump in the last year.
Not saying they can or would here... but just a 'maybe'.  Roberts seems to have lost patience with Trump's claims that he can do whatever he wants with no oversight in various matters.

Does SCOTUS matter?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/daca-donald-trump-supreme-court.html

Yeah, SCOTUS is an institution built with clapboard thin walls that's only kept standing because the person who controls the military believes in it as well. Once we get an authoritarian in power who doesn't care what 9 octogenarians think, it's useless.

What needs to happen is vocal and clear condemnation of Trump's election delay tweet by the Republicans.

[OtherJen]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

Well there is SCOTUS.  They've handed down a number of verdicts against Trump in the last year.
Not saying they can or would here... but just a 'maybe'.  Roberts seems to have lost patience with Trump's claims that he can do whatever he wants with no oversight in various matters.

Does SCOTUS matter?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/daca-donald-trump-supreme-court.html

Yeah, SCOTUS is an institution built with clapboard thin walls that's only kept standing because the person who controls the military believes in it as well. Once we get an authoritarian in power who doesn't care what 9 octogenarians think, it's useless.

What needs to happen is vocal and clear condemnation of Trump's election delay tweet by the Republicans.

Don't hold your breath on that one.

[nereo]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

Well there is SCOTUS.  They've handed down a number of verdicts against Trump in the last year.
Not saying they can or would here... but just a 'maybe'.  Roberts seems to have lost patience with Trump's claims that he can do whatever he wants with no oversight in various matters.

Does SCOTUS matter?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/daca-donald-trump-supreme-court.html

Yeah, SCOTUS is an institution built with clapboard thin walls that's only kept standing because the person who controls the military believes in it as well. Once we get an authoritarian in power who doesn't care what 9 octogenarians think, it's useless.

What needs to happen is vocal and clear condemnation of Trump's election delay tweet by the Republicans.

The question then is whether the military is indeed controlled by the individual DJT (instead of the  office of the President and the US Constitution- which military brass will stress is whom they serve). 

Put another way, if SCOTUS declares an action by POTUS to be unconstitutional, whom will the US Military follow?  Given the defections and bad blood which has festered between the two camps I'm not convinced they would side with Trump.  Even Esper sought to do an end-run around Trump's protection of Confederate names and symbols.

[bacchi]

The question then is whether the military is indeed controlled by the individual DJT (instead of the  office of the President and the US Constitution- which military brass will stress is whom they serve). 

Put another way, if SCOTUS declares an action by POTUS to be unconstitutional, whom will the US Military follow?  Given the defections and bad blood which has festered between the two camps I'm not convinced they would side with Trump.  Even Esper sought to do an end-run around Trump's protection of Confederate names and symbols.

@Travis ?

Like the delay tweet, Trump would never outright proclaim, "Fuck SCOTUS! I'm in charge now!" He'd coach it in terms of the Court being taken over by radicals, making unconstitutional and non-American decisions, working with the worldwide sex ring etc.

Then we get into how soldiers in the military think. Are they so ingrained into following orders that, if the President says it, it must be Constitutional?

Witness the clearing out of 1a, non-violent, protestors for his photo op. The DC Major regrets it now but he followed the orders when they were given.


It may only be luck that Esper is in charge and it's too late to fire him before the election.

[Glenstache]

The question then is whether the military is indeed controlled by the individual DJT (instead of the  office of the President and the US Constitution- which military brass will stress is whom they serve). 

Put another way, if SCOTUS declares an action by POTUS to be unconstitutional, whom will the US Military follow?  Given the defections and bad blood which has festered between the two camps I'm not convinced they would side with Trump.  Even Esper sought to do an end-run around Trump's protection of Confederate names and symbols.

@Travis ?

Like the delay tweet, Trump would never outright proclaim, "Fuck SCOTUS! I'm in charge now!" He'd coach it in terms of the Court being taken over by radicals, making unconstitutional and non-American decisions, working with the worldwide sex ring etc.

Then we get into how soldiers in the military think. Are they so ingrained into following orders that, if the President says it, it must be Constitutional?

Witness the clearing out of 1a, non-violent, protestors for his photo op. The DC Major regrets it now but he followed the orders when they were given.


It may only be luck that Esper is in charge and it's too late to fire him before the election.

There are two phases to this. 1) what Trump is willing to do between now and election day. 2) What Trump will do should he lose the either election marginally or by a wider margin. Independent of the 2020 election, the long gap between the election and oath of office is problematic. In the best of cases, it is a lame duck session. In the worst, it is a question of how much BS can be squeezed into a 2.5 month period when the public is distracted by the holidays. Beyond wide-ranging pardons, I wonder what petty things he can get up to in the lacuna?

[RetiredAt63]

The question then is whether the military is indeed controlled by the individual DJT (instead of the  office of the President and the US Constitution- which military brass will stress is whom they serve). 

Put another way, if SCOTUS declares an action by POTUS to be unconstitutional, whom will the US Military follow?  Given the defections and bad blood which has festered between the two camps I'm not convinced they would side with Trump.  Even Esper sought to do an end-run around Trump's protection of Confederate names and symbols.

@Travis ?

Like the delay tweet, Trump would never outright proclaim, "Fuck SCOTUS! I'm in charge now!" He'd coach it in terms of the Court being taken over by radicals, making unconstitutional and non-American decisions, working with the worldwide sex ring etc.

Then we get into how soldiers in the military think. Are they so ingrained into following orders that, if the President says it, it must be Constitutional?

Witness the clearing out of 1a, non-violent, protestors for his photo op. The DC Major regrets it now but he followed the orders when they were given.


It may only be luck that Esper is in charge and it's too late to fire him before the election.

There are two phases to this. 1) what Trump is willing to do between now and election day. 2) What Trump will do should he lose the either election marginally or by a wider margin. Independent of the 2020 election, the long gap between the election and oath of office is problematic. In the best of cases, it is a lame duck session. In the worst, it is a question of how much BS can be squeezed into a 2.5 month period when the public is distracted by the holidays. Beyond wide-ranging pardons, I wonder what petty things he can get up to in the lacuna?

Hmm, your whole modus operandi is based on 1776 standards of communication and travel, isn't  it?  I guess we are a bit better off, we are operating on 1867 standards.  Since 1957 the longest time between the election and the swearing in of the new government was 16 days.

[GuitarStv]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

Well there is SCOTUS.  They've handed down a number of verdicts against Trump in the last year.
Not saying they can or would here... but just a 'maybe'.  Roberts seems to have lost patience with Trump's claims that he can do whatever he wants with no oversight in various matters.

Does SCOTUS matter?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/daca-donald-trump-supreme-court.html

Yeah, SCOTUS is an institution built with clapboard thin walls that's only kept standing because the person who controls the military believes in it as well. Once we get an authoritarian in power who doesn't care what 9 octogenarians think, it's useless.

What needs to happen is vocal and clear condemnation of Trump's election delay tweet by the Republicans.

Don't hold your breath on that one.

Republicans told us there was no need to do anything about the president's illegal behaviour because he had learned his lesson.  So why be concerned?

[Glenstache]

The question then is whether the military is indeed controlled by the individual DJT (instead of the  office of the President and the US Constitution- which military brass will stress is whom they serve). 

Put another way, if SCOTUS declares an action by POTUS to be unconstitutional, whom will the US Military follow?  Given the defections and bad blood which has festered between the two camps I'm not convinced they would side with Trump.  Even Esper sought to do an end-run around Trump's protection of Confederate names and symbols.

@Travis ?

Like the delay tweet, Trump would never outright proclaim, "Fuck SCOTUS! I'm in charge now!" He'd coach it in terms of the Court being taken over by radicals, making unconstitutional and non-American decisions, working with the worldwide sex ring etc.

Then we get into how soldiers in the military think. Are they so ingrained into following orders that, if the President says it, it must be Constitutional?

Witness the clearing out of 1a, non-violent, protestors for his photo op. The DC Major regrets it now but he followed the orders when they were given.


It may only be luck that Esper is in charge and it's too late to fire him before the election.

There are two phases to this. 1) what Trump is willing to do between now and election day. 2) What Trump will do should he lose the either election marginally or by a wider margin. Independent of the 2020 election, the long gap between the election and oath of office is problematic. In the best of cases, it is a lame duck session. In the worst, it is a question of how much BS can be squeezed into a 2.5 month period when the public is distracted by the holidays. Beyond wide-ranging pardons, I wonder what petty things he can get up to in the lacuna?

Hmm, your whole modus operandi is based on 1776 standards of communication and travel, isn't  it?  I guess we are a bit better off, we are operating on 1867 standards.  Since 1957 the longest time between the election and the swearing in of the new government was 16 days.

Yep. See also the system of measurements in the US. Why constrain yourself to base 10 units when you can have units that are in sets of 12, 8, 4, 5280, or 16?

[RetiredAt63]

The question then is whether the military is indeed controlled by the individual DJT (instead of the  office of the President and the US Constitution- which military brass will stress is whom they serve). 

Put another way, if SCOTUS declares an action by POTUS to be unconstitutional, whom will the US Military follow?  Given the defections and bad blood which has festered between the two camps I'm not convinced they would side with Trump.  Even Esper sought to do an end-run around Trump's protection of Confederate names and symbols.

@Travis ?

Like the delay tweet, Trump would never outright proclaim, "Fuck SCOTUS! I'm in charge now!" He'd coach it in terms of the Court being taken over by radicals, making unconstitutional and non-American decisions, working with the worldwide sex ring etc.

Then we get into how soldiers in the military think. Are they so ingrained into following orders that, if the President says it, it must be Constitutional?

Witness the clearing out of 1a, non-violent, protestors for his photo op. The DC Major regrets it now but he followed the orders when they were given.


It may only be luck that Esper is in charge and it's too late to fire him before the election.

There are two phases to this. 1) what Trump is willing to do between now and election day. 2) What Trump will do should he lose the either election marginally or by a wider margin. Independent of the 2020 election, the long gap between the election and oath of office is problematic. In the best of cases, it is a lame duck session. In the worst, it is a question of how much BS can be squeezed into a 2.5 month period when the public is distracted by the holidays. Beyond wide-ranging pardons, I wonder what petty things he can get up to in the lacuna?

Hmm, your whole modus operandi is based on 1776 standards of communication and travel, isn't  it?  I guess we are a bit better off, we are operating on 1867 standards.  Since 1957 the longest time between the election and the swearing in of the new government was 16 days.

Yep. See also the system of measurements in the US. Why constrain yourself to base 10 units when you can have units that are in sets of 12, 8, 4, 5280, or 16?

Why not go metric, just because most of the rest of the world uses it?

Seriously, you were complaining about a 2.5 month gap between election and new swearing in.  Your constitution says you have to do this.  Can't it be amended to a shorter time period?  You already have lots of amendments. 

[jim555]

The President's term expires January 20th, election or no election.  Since Trump and Pence will be "aged out" the next in succession is Speaker of the House.   Madam President waits to be sworn in.

[sherr]

The President's term expires January 20th, election or no election.  Since Trump and Pence will be "aged out" the next in succession is Speaker of the House.   Madam President waits to be sworn in.

That's not correct, because all house members terms would also be over (and a third of the senate). Their terms actually end Jan 3rd. Next in line would be President Pro Tempore of the Senate, whoever that is given the new majority among the remaining senators.

[nereo]

Seriously, you were complaining about a 2.5 month gap between election and new swearing in.  Your constitution says you have to do this.  Can't it be amended to a shorter time period?  You already have lots of amendments.

Technically, it was shortened.  inauguration used to be March 3rd up until 1937, when the 20th amendment was ratified.   So the 'lame-duck' session was shortened from roughly 16 weeks until 10.  So your theory of it being a throwback to an older time doesn't hold water.  Our government is just cumbersome and difficult to change by design.

I'm really not sure why the amendment didn't go further, perhaps delaying the general election until December and then holding the inauguration earlier in January.  Shrug.

As for 'why not pass another amendment' - well the bar for amendments is incredibly high. The most common method requires 2/3rds of both Houses of congress  plus the approval of 75% (38) states.  It's rare that anything gets that level of support - though what the rationale would be to rejecting such a change I can't quite guess.  A lot of legislators believe our de-facto response should be to keep that Constitution unaltered.

[talltexan]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

Well there is SCOTUS.  They've handed down a number of verdicts against Trump in the last year.
Not saying they can or would here... but just a 'maybe'.  Roberts seems to have lost patience with Trump's claims that he can do whatever he wants with no oversight in various matters.

Does SCOTUS matter?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/daca-donald-trump-supreme-court.html

Yeah, SCOTUS is an institution built with clapboard thin walls that's only kept standing because the person who controls the military believes in it as well. Once we get an authoritarian in power who doesn't care what 9 octogenarians think, it's useless.

What needs to happen is vocal and clear condemnation of Trump's election delay tweet by the Republicans.

The question then is whether the military is indeed controlled by the individual DJT (instead of the  office of the President and the US Constitution- which military brass will stress is whom they serve). 

Put another way, if SCOTUS declares an action by POTUS to be unconstitutional, whom will the US Military follow?  Given the defections and bad blood which has festered between the two camps I'm not convinced they would side with Trump.  Even Esper sought to do an end-run around Trump's protection of Confederate names and symbols.

The President may be the Command-in-chief of the military, but that doesn't mean the military would follow an order from him that violated the law or the Constitution

[cliffhanger]

Election is happening Nov 3rd

Nothing the President can do about, no matter what he tweets. News organizations know this, government officials know this, but they're going to milk this fake outrage as long as possible. Gotta get those sweet, sweet rage clicks.

[sherr]

Election is happening Nov 3rd

Nothing the President can do about, no matter what he tweets. News organizations know this, government officials know this, but they're going to milk this fake outrage as long as possible. Gotta get those sweet, sweet rage clicks.

It's not "fake outrage". Just because Trump is impotent to implement this particular sabotage of democracy doesn't mean it's not outrageous that he's traitorous and stupid enough to try.

Maybe you should be a little more concerned about the fact that Trump is saying stuff like this, and not that the media is reporting on it.

[nereo]

Election is happening Nov 3rd

Nothing the President can do about, no matter what he tweets. News organizations know this, government officials know this, but they're going to milk this fake outrage as long as possible. Gotta get those sweet, sweet rage clicks.

Hmm... could it be that the President is following his normal playbook and diverting attention from something else onto him?  Let's see here...  John Lewis is being eulogized in State (including in-person appearances by Obama, Bush and Clinton).  The US hits the highest single-day death totals in two months.  The economy had the largest quarter contraction ever.  Trump campaign is being investigated for misappropriating $170MM.  All of these (and more) have popped up in the last 24 hours.

No wonder he'd rather have people discussing whether the election has to be held on November 7th or a few weeks later...

[GuitarStv]

If anyone is surprised by this, well, it must have been nice to live in a bubble completely shielded from reality for the last 4 years.

BBC: Donald Trump calls for delay to 2020 US presidential election

I'm not at all surprised that he's now stating it outright, but I'm wondering if the timing is to use it as a distraction from the GDP numbers that are coming out today. The good news is that it's not his call to delay it.

The House of Representatives is the only thing standing in his way, and thank [insert deity of choice] that it is majority Democrat because Trump's GOP lackeys in the Senate would probably allow this.

"Probably"?

Well there is SCOTUS.  They've handed down a number of verdicts against Trump in the last year.
Not saying they can or would here... but just a 'maybe'.  Roberts seems to have lost patience with Trump's claims that he can do whatever he wants with no oversight in various matters.

Does SCOTUS matter?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/daca-donald-trump-supreme-court.html

Yeah, SCOTUS is an institution built with clapboard thin walls that's only kept standing because the person who controls the military believes in it as well. Once we get an authoritarian in power who doesn't care what 9 octogenarians think, it's useless.

What needs to happen is vocal and clear condemnation of Trump's election delay tweet by the Republicans.

The question then is whether the military is indeed controlled by the individual DJT (instead of the  office of the President and the US Constitution- which military brass will stress is whom they serve). 

Put another way, if SCOTUS declares an action by POTUS to be unconstitutional, whom will the US Military follow?  Given the defections and bad blood which has festered between the two camps I'm not convinced they would side with Trump.  Even Esper sought to do an end-run around Trump's protection of Confederate names and symbols.

The President may be the Command-in-chief of the military, but that doesn't mean the military would follow an order from him that violated the law or the Constitution

Police and ICE have had no problems following orders that violate the constitution.  I'm hoping your faith in the military will turn out differently.