Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681516 times)

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6800 on: January 09, 2021, 09:36:22 PM »
Huh. Amazon Is Booting Parler Off Of Its Web Hosting Service (Buzzfeed News)

Google and Apple did the same. I can't remember which one it was to, but Parler said "we'll set up a task force to mitigate this temporary issue" and the response was the legal and polite version of "are you fucking kidding? Have you been paying any attention?"

MoneyGoatee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6801 on: January 09, 2021, 11:50:59 PM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6802 on: January 10, 2021, 12:16:24 AM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

Reminds me of the first couple years of the Tea Party's rise.  They show up in numbers and tell the RNC: "we're here because a growing part of your base doesn't like what you've been doing." Mainstream Republican Congress' response: "you're the enemy. We hate you as much as we hate the Democrats and we're going to do our best to marginalize you." Instead of having some meaningful internal discussions on what they're supposed to represent as a party, those fringe elements fester and get a national voice through Trump until they become the base.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6803 on: January 10, 2021, 05:33:04 AM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

Reminds me of the first couple years of the Tea Party's rise.  They show up in numbers and tell the RNC: "we're here because a growing part of your base doesn't like what you've been doing." Mainstream Republican Congress' response: "you're the enemy. We hate you as much as we hate the Democrats and we're going to do our best to marginalize you." Instead of having some meaningful internal discussions on what they're supposed to represent as a party, those fringe elements fester and get a national voice through Trump until they become the base.

Well as we’ve seen, Trump’s base alone is insufficient to win majorities, and demographic shifts aren’t doing it any favors in the years to come. More so than the progressive wing of the Democrats the ‘mainstream’ portion of the party is increasingly disgusted by Trump’s base. Events like the insurrection and Trump’s media rants rile up the base but alienate the moderates.  The GOP has to have a reckoning or risk giving Dems multiple cycles with full control over the federal government. 2022 is already a tough roadmap for the GOP in the Senate, as they have to defend twice as many seats, and a number of those the incumbent has announced retirement. Problem is, the base is getting louder and more insane.

I’m suddenly reminded of former house speaker John Boehner whistling “zippidy do dah” before starting his press conference where he announced he felt the time was right to leave politics, that he didn’t think the GOP would listen to center-right leaders like him anymore. He clearly had some insight into where his party was headed. This was 2015.  Paul Ryan, the supposed “future of the GOP” took over as speaker and lasted two years.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6804 on: January 10, 2021, 05:45:27 AM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

Reminds me of the first couple years of the Tea Party's rise.  They show up in numbers and tell the RNC: "we're here because a growing part of your base doesn't like what you've been doing." Mainstream Republican Congress' response: "you're the enemy. We hate you as much as we hate the Democrats and we're going to do our best to marginalize you." Instead of having some meaningful internal discussions on what they're supposed to represent as a party, those fringe elements fester and get a national voice through Trump until they become the base.

Well as we’ve seen, Trump’s base alone is insufficient to win majorities, and demographic shifts aren’t doing it any favors in the years to come. More so than the progressive wing of the Democrats the ‘mainstream’ portion of the party is increasingly disgusted by Trump’s base. Events like the insurrection and Trump’s media rants rile up the base but alienate the moderates.  The GOP has to have a reckoning or risk giving Dems multiple cycles with full control over the federal government. 2022 is already a tough roadmap for the GOP in the Senate, as they have to defend twice as many seats, and a number of those the incumbent has announced retirement. Problem is, the base is getting louder and more insane.

I’m suddenly reminded of former house speaker John Boehner whistling “zippidy do dah” before starting his press conference where he announced he felt the time was right to leave politics, that he didn’t think the GOP would listen to center-right leaders like him anymore. He clearly had some insight into where his party was headed. This was 2015.  Paul Ryan, the supposed “future of the GOP” took over as speaker and lasted two years.

Ryan was trying to be the energetic deal maker, but he had no experience to prepare him for what Trump threw at him.  Instead of leading the Republican Party most of us were accustomed to, the party that we saw this week was taking root instead and it ran right over him.

Found this a few minutes ago. Seemed relevant. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/01/10/tea-party-protests-trump-bob-inglis-column/6594986002/

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6805 on: January 10, 2021, 08:00:54 AM »
I do have to say like the majority of Americans I am aghast at what went down Jan 6th. I also want to know why the police in the capitol and protecting the Capitol building were so woefully undermanned and unprepared, when I as a rando on Facebook knew that Trump was planning something big on Jan 6th. This shouldn't have happened!

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6806 on: January 10, 2021, 08:17:25 AM »
I do have to say like the majority of Americans I am aghast at what went down Jan 6th. I also want to know why the police in the capitol and protecting the Capitol building were so woefully undermanned and unprepared, when I as a rando on Facebook knew that Trump was planning something big on Jan 6th. This shouldn't have happened!
The Capitol police were woefully outnumbered given the size of the crowd. My sense is, law enforcement were warned ahead of time to limit engagement after the debacle this summer when they used pepper spray and force to disburse a peaceful protest so trump could have a photo op in front of a church.

So my guess is they were told “there is going to be a protest, and we can’t get involved, so let them protest “... but then they didn’t stay on the streets and sidewalks like they were supposed to, all hell broke loose and they were caught with their pants down.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6807 on: January 10, 2021, 08:32:56 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6808 on: January 10, 2021, 09:01:04 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

Psychstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6809 on: January 10, 2021, 09:26:20 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

I just want to point out that this isn't as cut and dry as everyone constantly makes it out to be. It's not like the only people breaking into the Capitol on 1/6 were in thier 60s and 70s. People in Trump land have kids too. Kyle Rittenhouse anyone?

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6810 on: January 10, 2021, 09:53:05 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

I just want to point out that this isn't as cut and dry as everyone constantly makes it out to be. It's not like the only people breaking into the Capitol on 1/6 were in thier 60s and 70s. People in Trump land have kids too. Kyle Rittenhouse anyone?

Yes, Trump has a lot of support among the "loser kids" demographic as well.

Sandi_k

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6811 on: January 10, 2021, 10:08:46 AM »
We have friends and family in Trump's camp, aged 17-60+.

While it's true that perhaps his voting base is demographically diminishing, it's not going to go away any time soon. And that's what breaks my heart.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6812 on: January 10, 2021, 10:14:47 AM »
While Trump does have some supporters from just about any demographic group you could name, I am not sure why so many are focused on age as opposed to other factors that may have an even greater correlation?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6813 on: January 10, 2021, 11:23:46 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

I just want to point out that this isn't as cut and dry as everyone constantly makes it out to be. It's not like the only people breaking into the Capitol on 1/6 were in thier 60s and 70s. People in Trump land have kids too. Kyle Rittenhouse anyone?

Demographics are the net average across large groups.  You can find supporters of the GOP/Trump in every demographic.  e.g. there are Black Trumpers.
However, on net changes in demographics will not help the Republican party unless they can improve their support above standing within those groups considerably (and above 50%).

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6814 on: January 10, 2021, 11:41:48 AM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

markbike528CBX

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6815 on: January 10, 2021, 11:46:08 AM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

DW verifies that in 2016 I said that Trump would destroy the Republican Party.

My spin (conspiracy theory) is that Donald and Hillary got drunk and agreed that whoever won in 2016 would destroy their own Party.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6816 on: January 10, 2021, 11:55:56 AM »

My spin (conspiracy theory) is that Donald and Hillary got drunk and agreed that whoever won in 2016 would destroy their own Party.

How and why would HRC have destroyed the Democratic party?

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6817 on: January 10, 2021, 11:59:44 AM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6818 on: January 10, 2021, 12:01:45 PM »
We also have numerous friends and family members of all ages that are maga brainwashed.  It's one of the biggest brain washed cults I've ever seen, on par with a religion.  I don't know how you deprogram those people, and I don't know if everyone fully understands just how far gone they are.  Some of the things my wife is seeing posted on Facebook from family members is absolutely mind blowing.  She doesn't understand how someone can be posting pro trump propaganda as of today. 

It's hard to wrap your head around the psychology of a cult.  When you hear of people being so far gone they will commit heinous murder for them (like in the manson family) it's easy to shrug it off as him just conning some gullible and troubled idiots. Or you hear about heavens gate where 39 people committed mass suicide - well it's 39 crazy people.  But trump got 75 million votes.  I don't think all 75 million are brainwashed enough to literally kill themselves on his orders, but a disturbingly large number of them are.  It's frightening and I can't inside their heads.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6819 on: January 10, 2021, 12:04:34 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yes. I’m also confused as to why he and Ted Cruz haven’t been forced to resign. Al Franken was forced to resign because of sexual misconduct, with plenty of evidence of his awful behavior, but one might argue that attempted sedition and obstruction of a federal election are at least as bad.

Psychstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6820 on: January 10, 2021, 12:44:17 PM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

I just want to point out that this isn't as cut and dry as everyone constantly makes it out to be. It's not like the only people breaking into the Capitol on 1/6 were in thier 60s and 70s. People in Trump land have kids too. Kyle Rittenhouse anyone?

Demographics are the net average across large groups.  You can find supporters of the GOP/Trump in every demographic.  e.g. there are Black Trumpers.
However, on net changes in demographics will not help the Republican party unless they can improve their support above standing within those groups considerably (and above 50%).

Perhaps I misinterpreted the posters intent, I just know I hear a lot of people make comments along the lines of "Well soon the old people who were around during segregation will start dying off and everything will start to get better" as though we don't have tonnes of shitbags in their 20s and 30s.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6821 on: January 10, 2021, 12:56:48 PM »
1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

Jenna Ellis is a self-identified "constitutional lawyer" and she was previously handling traffic court cases.

Marc Elias, who has argued and won cases before the Supreme Court, recently tweeted: No true constitutional lawyer calls themselves a constitutional lawyer.

To put it another way, any lawyer in the US is a "constitutional lawyer."

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6822 on: January 10, 2021, 01:08:17 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yeah, unfortunately, the hitting them in the wallet part isn't going so well, as it seems they were doing some pretty good fundraising off all this.

And the courts.  Sigh.  Even though they mostly come down on the right side, it often takes sooooo long, and "justice delayed is justice denied" and certainly doesn't serve the needed deterrent effects.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6823 on: January 10, 2021, 01:44:06 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yeah, unfortunately, the hitting them in the wallet part isn't going so well, as it seems they were doing some pretty good fundraising off all this.

And the courts.  Sigh.  Even though they mostly come down on the right side, it often takes sooooo long, and "justice delayed is justice denied" and certainly doesn't serve the needed deterrent effects.

Well, everybody involved in the attack on the Capitol is being identified (thanks, anti-maskers) and they are losing their jobs. Politicians are losing book deals, TV deals, getting kicked out of office, for participating. The right-wing apps are being deplatformed and banned. The financial fallout from this situation is severe. Thousands of people will never have income again.

dang1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6824 on: January 10, 2021, 02:08:03 PM »
Pro-democracy folks just to fight harder against the fascist traitors. Speak out, stand up for democracy and justice, especially against fascist traitors that are in close proximity. Stay engaged, keep organizing. The only way for fascist traitors to win is for good, decent folks to give up and stay idle.

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6825 on: January 10, 2021, 02:33:23 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yeah, unfortunately, the hitting them in the wallet part isn't going so well, as it seems they were doing some pretty good fundraising off all this.

And the courts.  Sigh.  Even though they mostly come down on the right side, it often takes sooooo long, and "justice delayed is justice denied" and certainly doesn't serve the needed deterrent effects.

Well, everybody involved in the attack on the Capitol is being identified (thanks, anti-maskers) and they are losing their jobs. Politicians are losing book deals, TV deals, getting kicked out of office, for participating. The right-wing apps are being deplatformed and banned. The financial fallout from this situation is severe. Thousands of people will never have income again.

I'm not completely clear on how this works in the US.  Are the rioters being charged with breaking federal laws?   And if so, could Trump issue pardons for them?

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6826 on: January 10, 2021, 02:42:43 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)



1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.



Hawley ought to brush up on the fundamentals of free speech under the First Amendment.

The First Amendment protects the right to speak as well as  the right not to speak.

WRT to Hawley's  alleged   violation of the First Amendment, Simon & Schuster has the sole right to choose which books its  publishes.

Under the First Amendment the literal right not to speak (utter words)  extends to  a right of publishers to be free of Big Brother's compulsion to publish  unwanted speech in the form of a  book.

Hawley has it backwards: It would be  Orwellian if  Simon & Schuster were compelled to publish his book, a book the  publisher  has a right to reject and did.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 02:48:21 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6827 on: January 10, 2021, 02:46:13 PM »
Are the rioters being charged with breaking federal laws?   And if so, could Trump issue pardons for them?

FBI is working on this. So I'd expect federal charges.

Technically yes, Trump can pardon them. But I think he is inherently selfish and would likely understand doing so would turn things further against him. So I don't expect he will.

What happened on Wednesday was way bigger than the fate of a few (or a few thousand) people. It broke the tradition of 200+ years of peaceful transfer of power. To me, it appears to have broken, or at least eroded one of the foundational ideas that define the US.

Despite what may appear superficially, some Republicans/Conservatives do still have a sense of civic pride and do understand the gravity of the incident. Trumpers, mostly, don't! However, even if Trump is unable to understand exactly what he did, I suspect he does understand the depth of the backlash and would likely not further inflame passions. My reading is that he has a pretty strong self-preservation instinct.

But then, I have been wrong before!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 02:50:44 PM by ctuser1 »

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6828 on: January 10, 2021, 02:53:45 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yeah, unfortunately, the hitting them in the wallet part isn't going so well, as it seems they were doing some pretty good fundraising off all this.

And the courts.  Sigh.  Even though they mostly come down on the right side, it often takes sooooo long, and "justice delayed is justice denied" and certainly doesn't serve the needed deterrent effects.

Well, everybody involved in the attack on the Capitol is being identified (thanks, anti-maskers) and they are losing their jobs. Politicians are losing book deals, TV deals, getting kicked out of office, for participating. The right-wing apps are being deplatformed and banned. The financial fallout from this situation is severe. Thousands of people will never have income again.

I'm not completely clear on how this works in the US.  Are the rioters being charged with breaking federal laws?   And if so, could Trump issue pardons for them?

It's actually possible that he could do that. I don't think he will, though, because the fallout from doing that would end any slim chance of him having a political career in the future. And because there are only ten days remaining in his Presidency.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6829 on: January 10, 2021, 03:01:36 PM »
This video by Arnold Schwarzenegger was powerful, I'm sure it was personally painful for him to say this because of the memories it raised.  He has a long and consistent history as a Republican.

[/s]]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck&feature=emb_logo

American GenX

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6830 on: January 10, 2021, 03:25:14 PM »
I don't think all 75 million are brainwashed enough to literally kill themselves on his orders, but a disturbingly large number of them are.  It's frightening and I can't inside their heads.

Many who voted for Trump just prefer conservative policies despite not liking Trump personally.   Thank goodness it wasn't Bernie or one of the other more liberal democratic candidates running against Trump, or we would almost certainly be looking at 4 more years of Trump.  Thank God that Biden was the democrat candidate.  It wasn't looking too promising early on in the primary.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6831 on: January 10, 2021, 04:05:11 PM »
I don't think all 75 million are brainwashed enough to literally kill themselves on his orders, but a disturbingly large number of them are.  It's frightening and I can't inside their heads.

Many who voted for Trump just prefer conservative policies despite not liking Trump personally.   Thank goodness it wasn't Bernie or one of the other more liberal democratic candidates running against Trump, or we would almost certainly be looking at 4 more years of Trump.  Thank God that Biden was the democrat candidate.  It wasn't looking too promising early on in the primary.

It’s funny how in a parallel thread many posters were worried that Biden’s nomination would mean 4 more years of trump because people “weren’t enthusiastic about him”. Now that he is president elect I’m hearing lots of people say “thank goodness we didn’t nominate any of the other candidates!”

It’s all unprovable, of course.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6832 on: January 10, 2021, 04:32:19 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The same crowd of people who smashed their way into the Capitol with "don't tread on me" and Confederate flags were demanding that the federal government arbitrarily alter the States' election decisions. Chew on that one.

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6833 on: January 10, 2021, 04:56:49 PM »
I see that AWS is shutting down parler.com at midnight tonight.    parler says they'll be back up in a week.    Maybe we should start a pool.    Anyone here converted from AWS to another cloud?

(People in the know have suggested that Trump will relocate to grindr.   :-) ).

I also noticed that parler does not have a content network in its front end.    They will be susceptible to DDOS attacks if they do come back.   Not that I would ever advocate such a thing.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6834 on: January 10, 2021, 05:44:42 PM »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6835 on: January 10, 2021, 05:47:13 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The same crowd of people who smashed their way into the Capitol with "don't tread on me" and Confederate flags were demanding that the federal government arbitrarily alter the States' election decisions. Chew on that one.

I’ve been chewing on it for 2 months. I live in Wayne county, Michigan and served as a poll worker. Their efforts to cancel my and others’ votes have been incredibly insulting.

American GenX

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6836 on: January 10, 2021, 05:58:20 PM »
I don't think all 75 million are brainwashed enough to literally kill themselves on his orders, but a disturbingly large number of them are.  It's frightening and I can't inside their heads.

Many who voted for Trump just prefer conservative policies despite not liking Trump personally.   Thank goodness it wasn't Bernie or one of the other more liberal democratic candidates running against Trump, or we would almost certainly be looking at 4 more years of Trump.  Thank God that Biden was the democrat candidate.  It wasn't looking too promising early on in the primary.

It’s funny how in a parallel thread many posters were worried that Biden’s nomination would mean 4 more years of trump because people “weren’t enthusiastic about him”. Now that he is president elect I’m hearing lots of people say “thank goodness we didn’t nominate any of the other candidates!”

It’s all unprovable, of course.

I wasn't one of those people.  I was pulling for Biden all the way, as mentioned in the 2020 POTUS candidates thread.  Dems would most likely have done worse down ballot as well with someone like Bernie at the top of the ticket.  So many things can't be proved, but I'm pretty confident in what I stated.  I'm certain we are very fortunate not to get stuck with 4 more years of Trump, whether I can "prove" that or not.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6837 on: January 10, 2021, 05:59:46 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The same crowd of people who smashed their way into the Capitol with "don't tread on me" and Confederate flags were demanding that the federal government arbitrarily alter the States' election decisions. Chew on that one.

I’ve been chewing on it for 2 months. I live in Wayne county, Michigan and served as a poll worker. Their efforts to cancel my and others’ votes have been incredibly insulting.

I've been following the drama you've been dealing with. I just find it hilarious that the dumbasses who demand "State's Rights!" and all that now expect the federal government to violate the Constitution and rescue them and don't see the irony.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6838 on: January 10, 2021, 06:02:44 PM »
I don't think all 75 million are brainwashed enough to literally kill themselves on his orders, but a disturbingly large number of them are.  It's frightening and I can't inside their heads.

Many who voted for Trump just prefer conservative policies despite not liking Trump personally.   Thank goodness it wasn't Bernie or one of the other more liberal democratic candidates running against Trump, or we would almost certainly be looking at 4 more years of Trump.  Thank God that Biden was the democrat candidate.  It wasn't looking too promising early on in the primary.

It’s funny how in a parallel thread many posters were worried that Biden’s nomination would mean 4 more years of trump because people “weren’t enthusiastic about him”. Now that he is president elect I’m hearing lots of people say “thank goodness we didn’t nominate any of the other candidates!”

It’s all unprovable, of course.

I wasn't one of those people.  I was pulling for Biden all the way, as mentioned in the 2020 POTUS candidates thread.  Dems would most likely have done worse down ballot as well with someone like Bernie at the top of the ticket.  So many things can't be proved, but I'm pretty confident in what I stated.  I'm certain we are very fortunate not to get stuck with 4 more years of Trump, whether I can "prove" that or not.

Me, too. Regardless of my personal preferences, I have never felt that Bernie had the wide appeal to win an election. As old as Biden is, my feeling has been that he had the best chance of getting elected, and also that he was unique in having the experience of cleaning up after the shitshow that has been Trump.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6839 on: January 10, 2021, 06:07:06 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The same crowd of people who smashed their way into the Capitol with "don't tread on me" and Confederate flags were demanding that the federal government arbitrarily alter the States' election decisions. Chew on that one.

I’ve been chewing on it for 2 months. I live in Wayne county, Michigan and served as a poll worker. Their efforts to cancel my and others’ votes have been incredibly insulting.

I've been following the drama you've been dealing with. I just find it hilarious that the dumbasses who demand "State's Rights!" and all that now expect the federal government to violate the Constitution and rescue them and don't see the irony.

Exactly.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6840 on: January 10, 2021, 06:20:24 PM »
Alright, after reading up on the 25th amendment process more it looks like the main advantages are:

25th Amendment: Immediately removes the President the day of and the President must effectively win his way back in through Congress. The process is laid out to take up to 25 days to determine the President's ability before congress. So effectively, the VP can immediately remove the President for the remainder of his term without the president having any recourse.

Impeachment: This process is slow, so we'd be stuck with Trump the rest of his term, but it would mean potentially removing him from 2024 contention.

Retireatee1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6841 on: January 10, 2021, 06:41:58 PM »
Alright, after reading up on the 25th amendment process more it looks like the main advantages are:

25th Amendment: Immediately removes the President the day of and the President must effectively win his way back in through Congress. The process is laid out to take up to 25 days to determine the President's ability before congress. So effectively, the VP can immediately remove the President for the remainder of his term without the president having any recourse.

Impeachment: This process is slow, so we'd be stuck with Trump the rest of his term, but it would mean potentially removing him from 2024 contention.

The 25th seems to be poorly thought out in that the cabinet has to secretly conspire without Trump finding out and firing them.  So I don't see it.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6842 on: January 10, 2021, 06:46:49 PM »
Alright, after reading up on the 25th amendment process more it looks like the main advantages are:

25th Amendment: Immediately removes the President the day of and the President must effectively win his way back in through Congress. The process is laid out to take up to 25 days to determine the President's ability before congress. So effectively, the VP can immediately remove the President for the remainder of his term without the president having any recourse.

Impeachment: This process is slow, so we'd be stuck with Trump the rest of his term, but it would mean potentially removing him from 2024 contention.

The 25th seems to be poorly thought out in that the cabinet has to secretly conspire without Trump finding out and firing them.  So I don't see it.

On one hand, Trump and Pence haven’t spoken since Wednesday, by all accounts, so at least Pence is unlikely to rat out the process. On the other hand, so many cabinet members have jumped ship rather than do their jobs that I don’t know how feasible it would be.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6843 on: January 10, 2021, 07:09:29 PM »
Alright, after reading up on the 25th amendment process more it looks like the main advantages are:

25th Amendment: Immediately removes the President the day of and the President must effectively win his way back in through Congress. The process is laid out to take up to 25 days to determine the President's ability before congress. So effectively, the VP can immediately remove the President for the remainder of his term without the president having any recourse.

Impeachment: This process is slow, so we'd be stuck with Trump the rest of his term, but it would mean potentially removing him from 2024 contention.

The 25th seems to be poorly thought out in that the cabinet has to secretly conspire without Trump finding out and firing them.  So I don't see it.

Well I think the thought process of the amendment was more like what happens if the President goes into a permanent vegetative state or is otherwise chronically incapacitated. Using the 25th amendment for this purpose seems like a stretch of the intent, but it also seems to have been written to be purposefully vague in order to fit a multitude of circumstances.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6844 on: January 10, 2021, 07:34:41 PM »
Trump is now starting to be banned by payment processors. The first one to ban him is Stripe. Put a fork in Trump. It’s just a matter of time now.

Abe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6845 on: January 10, 2021, 07:51:23 PM »
Alright, after reading up on the 25th amendment process more it looks like the main advantages are:

25th Amendment: Immediately removes the President the day of and the President must effectively win his way back in through Congress. The process is laid out to take up to 25 days to determine the President's ability before congress. So effectively, the VP can immediately remove the President for the remainder of his term without the president having any recourse.

Impeachment: This process is slow, so we'd be stuck with Trump the rest of his term, but it would mean potentially removing him from 2024 contention.

The 25th seems to be poorly thought out in that the cabinet has to secretly conspire without Trump finding out and firing them.  So I don't see it.

Well I think the thought process of the amendment was more like what happens if the President goes into a permanent vegetative state or is otherwise chronically incapacitated. Using the 25th amendment for this purpose seems like a stretch of the intent, but it also seems to have been written to be purposefully vague in order to fit a multitude of circumstances.

Section 4 is specifically for the circumstance of disputed capacity, hence the presidents ability to declare he is fit for duty.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6846 on: January 10, 2021, 08:06:48 PM »
Trump is now starting to be banned by payment processors. The first one to ban him is Stripe. Put a fork in Trump. It’s just a matter of time now.

Payments for what?


former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6847 on: January 10, 2021, 08:09:14 PM »
Trump is now starting to be banned by payment processors. The first one to ban him is Stripe. Put a fork in Trump. It’s just a matter of time now.

Payments for what?
Method for getting donations?

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6848 on: January 10, 2021, 08:09:22 PM »
Trump is now starting to be banned by payment processors. The first one to ban him is Stripe. Put a fork in Trump. It’s just a matter of time now.

Payments for what?

MAGA gear and political donations.

GreenEggs

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6849 on: January 10, 2021, 08:11:10 PM »
Trump is now starting to be banned by payment processors. The first one to ban him is Stripe. Put a fork in Trump. It’s just a matter of time now.

Payments for what?


Pardons