Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 500393 times)

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6800 on: January 09, 2021, 07:57:23 AM »
Let's barricade Tucker in a room with a crowd screaming for his head outside the room and see how radical he thinks they might look...that women was very radical by all accounts. Even most of her family says she was a patriot, buy she was bizarrely obsessed with Trump and Qanon.

I'm so fucking tired of this word. A patriot loves their country and defends it. These days it's just code for "Republican nationalist." It's the new "tough on communism." I'm a patriot for waving a flag, regardless of whatever else I happen to be doing at the time.  You don't support the DoD having an unlimited budget? You're not a patriot. Those same "patriots" then chafe at the prospect of paying more taxes to fund it. That's just socialism. I'm sure everybody who smashed their way into the Congress this week and beat a cop to death thought they were patriots. A not insignificant number of them were in the streets last summer demanding the right to gun down anybody who protested police violence or attacked the police or vandalized America. Now they've caused the very violence they purported to be defending against and we're supposed to sympathize with them and their alleged patriotism.

I would argue that even 'pure' patriotism, i.e. non-corrupted patriotism, is still not much of a virtue. At best it's benign and at worst it sows seeds of something quite malignant.

We are all citizens of the world, and though we might owe our individual countries a civic duty (e.g. to vote, to pay taxes), the notion of being proud of, and identifying strongly with, a geo-political entity simply because you were born there strikes me as a bit arbitrary and irrational. Particularly in this cosmopolitan day and age where your neighbours might have been born somewhere else, and speak a different language, and practise a different religion (or no religion). Perhaps it's because I grew up in three continents and therefore have no sense of patriotism to any given place, but I think the world would be better off without patriotism.

I understand what you are saying, but patriotisim isn't limited to one's nationality, no?  One can be a patriot for a particular cause (e.g. the homeless) or another affiliation (e.g. "the church" or "BLM").  On its face I see being a patriot as putting a cause/institution/country above ones personal interests.  That can be good, or detrimental.  As with any form of 'extremism', there's the tendency for bad, despite intentions.

I've only ever understood patriot to mean in reference to nationality. There's definitely nothing wrong with being a fervent supporter of a church, charity or a cause but I've never heard 'patriot' used in that context.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6801 on: January 09, 2021, 08:31:14 AM »



I've only ever understood patriot to mean in reference to nationality.

That is my understanding as well.

There's definitely nothing wrong with being a fervent supporter of a church, charity or a cause but I've never heard 'patriot' used in that context.

Neither have I.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6802 on: January 09, 2021, 08:36:44 AM »
Patriot comes from the root of patria, generally understood to be the fatherland. That is why it is only used in referring to nationality.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6803 on: January 09, 2021, 08:38:03 AM »
Right. You can be a patron of the arts or a cause, but not a patriot of the arts.

Imma

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6804 on: January 09, 2021, 10:30:46 AM »
I always smile a little bit when Americans on the far right describe themselves as patriots. In my country patriots were a left-wing liberal movement in the late 18th century and for the past 200 years we've looked upon that period as a very bad time in history (which I personally don't agree with)

Wikipedia's description of this period sounds surprisingly familiar though: "The concentration of power in a more and more closed oligarchy frustrated the middle class, that saw its opportunity for political and social advancement blocked, also because the political patronage in regard to all kind of petty offices was concentrated in the hands of the oligarchs, who favored their own allies." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriottentijd.   It's sad we still struggle with the same things more than 2 centuries later.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 11:09:14 AM by Imma »

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6805 on: January 09, 2021, 10:33:06 AM »
I always smile a little bit when Americans on the far right describe themselves as patriots. In my country patriots were a left-wing liberal movement in the late 18th century and for the past 200 years we've looked upon that period as a very bad time in history (which I personally don't agree with)

Wikipedia's description of this period sounds surprisingly familiar though: "The concentration of power in a more and more closed oligarchy frustrated the middle class, that saw its opportunity for political and social advancement blocked, also because the political patronage in regard to all kind of petty offices was concentrated in the hands of the oligarchs, who favored their own alles." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriottentijd.   It's sad we still struggle with the same things more than 2 centuries later.

In the context of this thread, it is kind of funny that they were opposing the Orangists (yes, I realize that Orange had a specific meeting and no, I do not condone picking on even a bully for their poor make up choices, but even I fall short of my own ideals sometimes...)

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6806 on: January 09, 2021, 10:40:38 AM »
Patriot comes from the root of patria, generally understood to be the fatherland. That is why it is only used in referring to nationality.

Noted.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6807 on: January 09, 2021, 10:41:43 AM »
So any bets on how fast the interest in Trump will die off after Jan 20?

I am thinking by March we don't even have a post a week on him.

Happy days ahead!

Imma

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6808 on: January 09, 2021, 11:18:30 AM »
I always smile a little bit when Americans on the far right describe themselves as patriots. In my country patriots were a left-wing liberal movement in the late 18th century and for the past 200 years we've looked upon that period as a very bad time in history (which I personally don't agree with)

Wikipedia's description of this period sounds surprisingly familiar though: "The concentration of power in a more and more closed oligarchy frustrated the middle class, that saw its opportunity for political and social advancement blocked, also because the political patronage in regard to all kind of petty offices was concentrated in the hands of the oligarchs, who favored their own alles." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriottentijd.   It's sad we still struggle with the same things more than 2 centuries later.

In the context of this thread, it is kind of funny that they were opposing the Orangists (yes, I realize that Orange had a specific meeting and no, I do not condone picking on even a bully for their poor make up choices, but even I fall short of my own ideals sometimes...)

It seems odd looks are a thing on that side of the political spectrum, not sure why. Not just Trump, also Boris Johnson, Dutch MP Geert Wilders, I could name a few more from my country. Maybe it gets them more media attention or they look more like political outsiders that way?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6809 on: January 09, 2021, 11:40:59 AM »
So any bets on how fast the interest in Trump will die off after Jan 20?

I am thinking by March we don't even have a post a week on him.

Happy days ahead!

I  want Trump  to go away after 12 noon on Inauguration Day.

Happily, he will not attend the inauguration ceremony so we won't see him as part of it on January 20.

Ideally, he'd retire to one of his estates and live as a recluse never to be seen or heard from again.

 President Trump  incited a seditious  mob to attack the Capitol building at the very time Congress was inside it  fulfilling its constitutional duty to ensure  that President-elect Biden's victory satisfied all constitutional requisites which are at the heart  of free and fair elections, the bedrock principle that registers the "consent of the governed."


President Trump's  incitement of the attack on the Capitol building is an egregious, unforgivable  violation of his oath of office to  "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

 Donald J. Trump, the 45th president of the United States of America, is a malignant perversion of the presidency. He is an evil  degenerate and an execrable  menace to America's constitutional scheme and her polity.

The House of Representatives must impeach him forthwith.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 11:50:16 AM by John Galt incarnate! »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6810 on: January 09, 2021, 11:57:27 AM »
I'd also like to never hear from or about Trump again *except* that he's been held accountable for one or more of the (probable) crimes he has committed - at any time in his life, but ideally as president.  There has to be accountability for people to have any trust in government again.  Even with that accountability, people don't trust government and many of our other societal institutions, so we've already got an uphill battle ahead of us.  But this is an important element of rebuilding some sort of society.

Many dem/left groups are super excited, hypothesizing (or outright asserting) that the Manhattan DA has indictments ready to go for January 20 after noon.  I'm not so sure it will go down like that, but from all accounts, there are investigations in the works, so I look forward to hearing more about them....even if I really don't want to hear about Trump.  But if there are any prosecutions, you better bet he'll still be in the news.

centwise

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6811 on: January 09, 2021, 12:21:10 PM »
So any bets on how fast the interest in Trump will die off after Jan 20?

I am thinking by March we don't even have a post a week on him.

Happy days ahead!

I  want Trump  to go away after 12 noon on Inauguration Day.

Happily, he will not attend the inauguration ceremony so we won't see him as part of it on January 20.

Ideally, he'd retire to one of his estates and live as a recluse never to be seen or heard from again.


I think one of his aims in escalating the wild post-election rhetoric has been to inflame his troops into opening their wallets, and donating to his vast war-chest for future campaigns and political activities (not to mention personal enrichment). Unfortunately the tactic proved wildly successful, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't think he will fade away quietly.

dang1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6812 on: January 09, 2021, 12:56:15 PM »
trump and supporters are fascists

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6813 on: January 09, 2021, 01:01:44 PM »
Trump ain't going anywhere!

Even if he wanted to fade away, the lawsuits coming his way will keep him in the news.

Plus, I don't think the Democrat party machine wants him to fade away either. He is the best recruitment tool for the Dems.

I so wish that Trump and Trumpism just fades away so that there is a sane center-left and sane center-right coalition that bargains and compromises with each other. But I know that is not going to happen for at least the next couple of decades!

dandarc

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6814 on: January 09, 2021, 01:18:29 PM »
how can you hope for center-left and center-right in the near term when our two major parties are actually center-right and lunatic-fringe-right by any measure other than the view from the lunatic-fringe-right?

Heck republicans today are calling some policies 'radical-left' today that Richard Nixon supported not so long ago.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6815 on: January 09, 2021, 02:29:16 PM »
how can you hope for center-left and center-right in the near term when our two major parties are actually center-right and lunatic-fringe-right by any measure other than the view from the lunatic-fringe-right?

It's pretty bad right. I don't want anything like a socialist government but education and health care require some massive changes. I believe in the free market and small government but there are certain issues where the free market doesn't provide the best outcome to society. There needs to be two parties that are much more to the center but the reality is that there are too many loonies out there so that is hard. I mean fixing access to health care and education would be considered left wing which is crazy.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6816 on: January 09, 2021, 04:35:18 PM »
So any bets on how fast the interest in Trump will die off after Jan 20?

I am thinking by March we don't even have a post a week on him.

Happy days ahead!
Trump was devoted to dominating the media-cycle long before he was POTUS.  Those of us from NYC remember how he was a *constant* focus for most of the 80s and 90s.  Then he ‘went national’.

I’d love to never hear from him starting in Feb.  But I’m certain he’ll manage to be the focus until he’s dead, and then for a while after. 

...not to mention, multiple law-suits, his noisy children (a Senate run by Don Jr?!) and the fact that he has millions of followers who will do insane crap based on half-baked conspiracy theories.

OtherJen

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Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6818 on: January 09, 2021, 09:36:22 PM »
Huh. Amazon Is Booting Parler Off Of Its Web Hosting Service (Buzzfeed News)

Google and Apple did the same. I can't remember which one it was to, but Parler said "we'll set up a task force to mitigate this temporary issue" and the response was the legal and polite version of "are you fucking kidding? Have you been paying any attention?"

MoneyGoatee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6819 on: January 09, 2021, 11:50:59 PM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6820 on: January 10, 2021, 12:16:24 AM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

Reminds me of the first couple years of the Tea Party's rise.  They show up in numbers and tell the RNC: "we're here because a growing part of your base doesn't like what you've been doing." Mainstream Republican Congress' response: "you're the enemy. We hate you as much as we hate the Democrats and we're going to do our best to marginalize you." Instead of having some meaningful internal discussions on what they're supposed to represent as a party, those fringe elements fester and get a national voice through Trump until they become the base.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6821 on: January 10, 2021, 05:33:04 AM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

Reminds me of the first couple years of the Tea Party's rise.  They show up in numbers and tell the RNC: "we're here because a growing part of your base doesn't like what you've been doing." Mainstream Republican Congress' response: "you're the enemy. We hate you as much as we hate the Democrats and we're going to do our best to marginalize you." Instead of having some meaningful internal discussions on what they're supposed to represent as a party, those fringe elements fester and get a national voice through Trump until they become the base.

Well as we’ve seen, Trump’s base alone is insufficient to win majorities, and demographic shifts aren’t doing it any favors in the years to come. More so than the progressive wing of the Democrats the ‘mainstream’ portion of the party is increasingly disgusted by Trump’s base. Events like the insurrection and Trump’s media rants rile up the base but alienate the moderates.  The GOP has to have a reckoning or risk giving Dems multiple cycles with full control over the federal government. 2022 is already a tough roadmap for the GOP in the Senate, as they have to defend twice as many seats, and a number of those the incumbent has announced retirement. Problem is, the base is getting louder and more insane.

I’m suddenly reminded of former house speaker John Boehner whistling “zippidy do dah” before starting his press conference where he announced he felt the time was right to leave politics, that he didn’t think the GOP would listen to center-right leaders like him anymore. He clearly had some insight into where his party was headed. This was 2015.  Paul Ryan, the supposed “future of the GOP” took over as speaker and lasted two years.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6822 on: January 10, 2021, 05:45:27 AM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

Reminds me of the first couple years of the Tea Party's rise.  They show up in numbers and tell the RNC: "we're here because a growing part of your base doesn't like what you've been doing." Mainstream Republican Congress' response: "you're the enemy. We hate you as much as we hate the Democrats and we're going to do our best to marginalize you." Instead of having some meaningful internal discussions on what they're supposed to represent as a party, those fringe elements fester and get a national voice through Trump until they become the base.

Well as we’ve seen, Trump’s base alone is insufficient to win majorities, and demographic shifts aren’t doing it any favors in the years to come. More so than the progressive wing of the Democrats the ‘mainstream’ portion of the party is increasingly disgusted by Trump’s base. Events like the insurrection and Trump’s media rants rile up the base but alienate the moderates.  The GOP has to have a reckoning or risk giving Dems multiple cycles with full control over the federal government. 2022 is already a tough roadmap for the GOP in the Senate, as they have to defend twice as many seats, and a number of those the incumbent has announced retirement. Problem is, the base is getting louder and more insane.

I’m suddenly reminded of former house speaker John Boehner whistling “zippidy do dah” before starting his press conference where he announced he felt the time was right to leave politics, that he didn’t think the GOP would listen to center-right leaders like him anymore. He clearly had some insight into where his party was headed. This was 2015.  Paul Ryan, the supposed “future of the GOP” took over as speaker and lasted two years.

Ryan was trying to be the energetic deal maker, but he had no experience to prepare him for what Trump threw at him.  Instead of leading the Republican Party most of us were accustomed to, the party that we saw this week was taking root instead and it ran right over him.

Found this a few minutes ago. Seemed relevant. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/01/10/tea-party-protests-trump-bob-inglis-column/6594986002/

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6823 on: January 10, 2021, 08:00:54 AM »
I do have to say like the majority of Americans I am aghast at what went down Jan 6th. I also want to know why the police in the capitol and protecting the Capitol building were so woefully undermanned and unprepared, when I as a rando on Facebook knew that Trump was planning something big on Jan 6th. This shouldn't have happened!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6824 on: January 10, 2021, 08:17:25 AM »
I do have to say like the majority of Americans I am aghast at what went down Jan 6th. I also want to know why the police in the capitol and protecting the Capitol building were so woefully undermanned and unprepared, when I as a rando on Facebook knew that Trump was planning something big on Jan 6th. This shouldn't have happened!
The Capitol police were woefully outnumbered given the size of the crowd. My sense is, law enforcement were warned ahead of time to limit engagement after the debacle this summer when they used pepper spray and force to disburse a peaceful protest so trump could have a photo op in front of a church.

So my guess is they were told “there is going to be a protest, and we can’t get involved, so let them protest “... but then they didn’t stay on the streets and sidewalks like they were supposed to, all hell broke loose and they were caught with their pants down.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6825 on: January 10, 2021, 08:32:56 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6826 on: January 10, 2021, 09:01:04 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6827 on: January 10, 2021, 09:26:20 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

I just want to point out that this isn't as cut and dry as everyone constantly makes it out to be. It's not like the only people breaking into the Capitol on 1/6 were in thier 60s and 70s. People in Trump land have kids too. Kyle Rittenhouse anyone?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6828 on: January 10, 2021, 09:53:05 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

I just want to point out that this isn't as cut and dry as everyone constantly makes it out to be. It's not like the only people breaking into the Capitol on 1/6 were in thier 60s and 70s. People in Trump land have kids too. Kyle Rittenhouse anyone?

Yes, Trump has a lot of support among the "loser kids" demographic as well.

Sandi_k

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6829 on: January 10, 2021, 10:08:46 AM »
We have friends and family in Trump's camp, aged 17-60+.

While it's true that perhaps his voting base is demographically diminishing, it's not going to go away any time soon. And that's what breaks my heart.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6830 on: January 10, 2021, 10:14:47 AM »
While Trump does have some supporters from just about any demographic group you could name, I am not sure why so many are focused on age as opposed to other factors that may have an even greater correlation?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6831 on: January 10, 2021, 11:23:46 AM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

I just want to point out that this isn't as cut and dry as everyone constantly makes it out to be. It's not like the only people breaking into the Capitol on 1/6 were in thier 60s and 70s. People in Trump land have kids too. Kyle Rittenhouse anyone?

Demographics are the net average across large groups.  You can find supporters of the GOP/Trump in every demographic.  e.g. there are Black Trumpers.
However, on net changes in demographics will not help the Republican party unless they can improve their support above standing within those groups considerably (and above 50%).

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6832 on: January 10, 2021, 11:41:48 AM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

markbike528CBX

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6833 on: January 10, 2021, 11:46:08 AM »
It's funny that back in his 2016 campaigning days his wild antics actually made some think that he was sent by the Left to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party.  That latter part seems to have a funny way of coming true.  If the GOP has such destructive supporters whom the party has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, the party could only head for destruction.  Georgia turning blue in three elections in two months is the handwriting on the wall.  And this state hadn't turned blue since 1992.

DW verifies that in 2016 I said that Trump would destroy the Republican Party.

My spin (conspiracy theory) is that Donald and Hillary got drunk and agreed that whoever won in 2016 would destroy their own Party.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6834 on: January 10, 2021, 11:55:56 AM »

My spin (conspiracy theory) is that Donald and Hillary got drunk and agreed that whoever won in 2016 would destroy their own Party.

How and why would HRC have destroyed the Democratic party?

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6835 on: January 10, 2021, 11:59:44 AM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6836 on: January 10, 2021, 12:01:45 PM »
We also have numerous friends and family members of all ages that are maga brainwashed.  It's one of the biggest brain washed cults I've ever seen, on par with a religion.  I don't know how you deprogram those people, and I don't know if everyone fully understands just how far gone they are.  Some of the things my wife is seeing posted on Facebook from family members is absolutely mind blowing.  She doesn't understand how someone can be posting pro trump propaganda as of today. 

It's hard to wrap your head around the psychology of a cult.  When you hear of people being so far gone they will commit heinous murder for them (like in the manson family) it's easy to shrug it off as him just conning some gullible and troubled idiots. Or you hear about heavens gate where 39 people committed mass suicide - well it's 39 crazy people.  But trump got 75 million votes.  I don't think all 75 million are brainwashed enough to literally kill themselves on his orders, but a disturbingly large number of them are.  It's frightening and I can't inside their heads.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6837 on: January 10, 2021, 12:04:34 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yes. I’m also confused as to why he and Ted Cruz haven’t been forced to resign. Al Franken was forced to resign because of sexual misconduct, with plenty of evidence of his awful behavior, but one might argue that attempted sedition and obstruction of a federal election are at least as bad.

Psychstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6838 on: January 10, 2021, 12:44:17 PM »
That argument is so fucking absurd.  They were getting all kinds of backlash during the BLM riots and yet continued to escalate the situation, signing executive orders to punish protesters, rampant police brutality, and kidnapping protestors off the street with unmarked vans.  They even floated the idea of charging protesters and even the mayor of seattle with sedition. 

I'm not buying it. They knew these people were openly planning this.

I am reading about how maybe it's not a good idea to move ahead with impeachment because the Senate won't hold a trial until after inauguration which is going to occupy them and prevent them from moving forward with bidens cabinet picks, or anything else biden and the Dems want to move ahead with. 

I'm so disgusted with my country right now.

Don't count yourselves out yet Frugalnacho.     Incompetence is more likely than malevolence.   

Trump's defeat was a big step in the right direction, and it's not over until it's over.    I have faith the the American people will overcome this bizarre phase over time.   If nothing else, demographics will increasingly marginalize Trump's "base."

I just want to point out that this isn't as cut and dry as everyone constantly makes it out to be. It's not like the only people breaking into the Capitol on 1/6 were in thier 60s and 70s. People in Trump land have kids too. Kyle Rittenhouse anyone?

Demographics are the net average across large groups.  You can find supporters of the GOP/Trump in every demographic.  e.g. there are Black Trumpers.
However, on net changes in demographics will not help the Republican party unless they can improve their support above standing within those groups considerably (and above 50%).

Perhaps I misinterpreted the posters intent, I just know I hear a lot of people make comments along the lines of "Well soon the old people who were around during segregation will start dying off and everything will start to get better" as though we don't have tonnes of shitbags in their 20s and 30s.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6839 on: January 10, 2021, 12:56:48 PM »
1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

Jenna Ellis is a self-identified "constitutional lawyer" and she was previously handling traffic court cases.

Marc Elias, who has argued and won cases before the Supreme Court, recently tweeted: No true constitutional lawyer calls themselves a constitutional lawyer.

To put it another way, any lawyer in the US is a "constitutional lawyer."

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6840 on: January 10, 2021, 01:08:17 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yeah, unfortunately, the hitting them in the wallet part isn't going so well, as it seems they were doing some pretty good fundraising off all this.

And the courts.  Sigh.  Even though they mostly come down on the right side, it often takes sooooo long, and "justice delayed is justice denied" and certainly doesn't serve the needed deterrent effects.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6841 on: January 10, 2021, 01:44:06 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yeah, unfortunately, the hitting them in the wallet part isn't going so well, as it seems they were doing some pretty good fundraising off all this.

And the courts.  Sigh.  Even though they mostly come down on the right side, it often takes sooooo long, and "justice delayed is justice denied" and certainly doesn't serve the needed deterrent effects.

Well, everybody involved in the attack on the Capitol is being identified (thanks, anti-maskers) and they are losing their jobs. Politicians are losing book deals, TV deals, getting kicked out of office, for participating. The right-wing apps are being deplatformed and banned. The financial fallout from this situation is severe. Thousands of people will never have income again.

dang1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6842 on: January 10, 2021, 02:08:03 PM »
Pro-democracy folks just to fight harder against the fascist traitors. Speak out, stand up for democracy and justice, especially against fascist traitors that are in close proximity. Stay engaged, keep organizing. The only way for fascist traitors to win is for good, decent folks to give up and stay idle.

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6843 on: January 10, 2021, 02:33:23 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yeah, unfortunately, the hitting them in the wallet part isn't going so well, as it seems they were doing some pretty good fundraising off all this.

And the courts.  Sigh.  Even though they mostly come down on the right side, it often takes sooooo long, and "justice delayed is justice denied" and certainly doesn't serve the needed deterrent effects.

Well, everybody involved in the attack on the Capitol is being identified (thanks, anti-maskers) and they are losing their jobs. Politicians are losing book deals, TV deals, getting kicked out of office, for participating. The right-wing apps are being deplatformed and banned. The financial fallout from this situation is severe. Thousands of people will never have income again.

I'm not completely clear on how this works in the US.  Are the rioters being charged with breaking federal laws?   And if so, could Trump issue pardons for them?

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6844 on: January 10, 2021, 02:42:43 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)



1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.



Hawley ought to brush up on the fundamentals of free speech under the First Amendment.

The First Amendment protects the right to speak as well as  the right not to speak.

WRT to Hawley's  alleged   violation of the First Amendment, Simon & Schuster has the sole right to choose which books its  publishes.

Under the First Amendment the literal right not to speak (utter words)  extends to  a right of publishers to be free of Big Brother's compulsion to publish  unwanted speech in the form of a  book.

Hawley has it backwards: It would be  Orwellian if  Simon & Schuster were compelled to publish his book, a book the  publisher  has a right to reject and did.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 02:48:21 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6845 on: January 10, 2021, 02:46:13 PM »
Are the rioters being charged with breaking federal laws?   And if so, could Trump issue pardons for them?

FBI is working on this. So I'd expect federal charges.

Technically yes, Trump can pardon them. But I think he is inherently selfish and would likely understand doing so would turn things further against him. So I don't expect he will.

What happened on Wednesday was way bigger than the fate of a few (or a few thousand) people. It broke the tradition of 200+ years of peaceful transfer of power. To me, it appears to have broken, or at least eroded one of the foundational ideas that define the US.

Despite what may appear superficially, some Republicans/Conservatives do still have a sense of civic pride and do understand the gravity of the incident. Trumpers, mostly, don't! However, even if Trump is unable to understand exactly what he did, I suspect he does understand the depth of the backlash and would likely not further inflame passions. My reading is that he has a pretty strong self-preservation instinct.

But then, I have been wrong before!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 02:50:44 PM by ctuser1 »

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6846 on: January 10, 2021, 02:53:45 PM »
Quote
Soon after news broke that his book was dropped, Hawley tweeted, and tagged his comments directly to Simon & Schuster, that he was being unfairly censored and punished: “I was representing my constituents, leading a debate on the Senate floor on voter integrity, which they have now decided to redefine as sedition.

“This could not be more Orwellian … Let me be clear, this is not just a contract dispute. It’s a direct assault on the First Amendment … I will fight this cancel culture with everything I have. We’ll see you in court.”

(Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/josh-hawley-publisher-cancels-book-in-wake-of-capitol-attack)

Two thoughts:

1. Man, they sure are setting the bar low for constitutional lawyers these days. Josh Hawley doesn’t even understand the limits of the First Amendment.

2. It seems ironic that a guy who tried to cancel all the votes in several states to garner publicity and donations is now snowflaking about “cancel culture.”

The best way to hit back at these bozos is to hit them squarely in the wallet. And in court.

Yeah, unfortunately, the hitting them in the wallet part isn't going so well, as it seems they were doing some pretty good fundraising off all this.

And the courts.  Sigh.  Even though they mostly come down on the right side, it often takes sooooo long, and "justice delayed is justice denied" and certainly doesn't serve the needed deterrent effects.

Well, everybody involved in the attack on the Capitol is being identified (thanks, anti-maskers) and they are losing their jobs. Politicians are losing book deals, TV deals, getting kicked out of office, for participating. The right-wing apps are being deplatformed and banned. The financial fallout from this situation is severe. Thousands of people will never have income again.

I'm not completely clear on how this works in the US.  Are the rioters being charged with breaking federal laws?   And if so, could Trump issue pardons for them?

It's actually possible that he could do that. I don't think he will, though, because the fallout from doing that would end any slim chance of him having a political career in the future. And because there are only ten days remaining in his Presidency.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6847 on: January 10, 2021, 03:01:36 PM »
This video by Arnold Schwarzenegger was powerful, I'm sure it was personally painful for him to say this because of the memories it raised.  He has a long and consistent history as a Republican.

[/s]]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck&feature=emb_logo

American GenX

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6848 on: January 10, 2021, 03:25:14 PM »
I don't think all 75 million are brainwashed enough to literally kill themselves on his orders, but a disturbingly large number of them are.  It's frightening and I can't inside their heads.

Many who voted for Trump just prefer conservative policies despite not liking Trump personally.   Thank goodness it wasn't Bernie or one of the other more liberal democratic candidates running against Trump, or we would almost certainly be looking at 4 more years of Trump.  Thank God that Biden was the democrat candidate.  It wasn't looking too promising early on in the primary.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6849 on: January 10, 2021, 04:05:11 PM »
I don't think all 75 million are brainwashed enough to literally kill themselves on his orders, but a disturbingly large number of them are.  It's frightening and I can't inside their heads.

Many who voted for Trump just prefer conservative policies despite not liking Trump personally.   Thank goodness it wasn't Bernie or one of the other more liberal democratic candidates running against Trump, or we would almost certainly be looking at 4 more years of Trump.  Thank God that Biden was the democrat candidate.  It wasn't looking too promising early on in the primary.

It’s funny how in a parallel thread many posters were worried that Biden’s nomination would mean 4 more years of trump because people “weren’t enthusiastic about him”. Now that he is president elect I’m hearing lots of people say “thank goodness we didn’t nominate any of the other candidates!”

It’s all unprovable, of course.