Trump outrage of the day

[jim555]

Did the governor of NY actually refuse it or is this just Trump playing politics and withholding it because he did not kiss trumps ring

New Yorker's hate Trump from the 1980s that is why he hates NY.  Too smart to get fooled by Don the Con.  Seethe on orange fool.

[OtherJen]

If Trump said it, assume it is a lie. Saves a lot of time, and that statement seems like something that would play to his base off hand.

Agreed, it was just so insane hearing it that I had to do a double take and was like why would the leader of the country say such a thing.

Then I remembered it was Trump. Guess I let my guard down since it has been pretty quiet for a week or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, yeah. He isn’t humbled at all. It’s probably either a grudge for NY State’s ongoing investigation of him, or a threat (e.g., drop the suits or don’t get the vaccine).

[jim555]

Trump's Trifecta:

[OtherJen]

I can’t even make sense of this Trump Tweet from earlier today.

For years the Dems have been preaching how unsafe and rigged our elections have been. Now they are saying what a wonderful job the Trump Administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually this is true, except for what the Democrats did. Rigged Election!

(Source: @realDonaldTrump on Twitter)

[nereo]

I can’t even make sense of this Trump Tweet from earlier today.

For years the Dems have been preaching how unsafe and rigged our elections have been. Now they are saying what a wonderful job the Trump Administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually this is true, except for what the Democrats did. Rigged Election!

(Source: @realDonaldTrump on Twitter)

Remember when he called a press conference to say that Hillary had started the birther movement, but he was ending it?* Same strategy. Once he realizes he can’t win on an absurd position he accuses his opponents of having started it and walks away. Gaslighting at its most absurd.

*no really. That happened.

[teen persuasion]

Just turned on the TV and noticed there was a live Trump speech and thought let me see what this is about maybe it is his concession speech.

It was about the vaccines and operation warp speed but he said something that made me stop and rewind.

He said that it will be going out to everywhere in the US except New York because the governor has said he does not trust it and has said bad things in the press.

Did the governor of NY actually refuse it or is this just Trump playing politics and withholding it because he did not kiss trumps ring?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A while back when Trump was talking about fast-tracking whichever vaccine was ready first, Cuomo said he was skeptical that anything rammed thru was safe.  So he (Cuomo) would have a process for NY to vett the vaccine before NYers got it.  And I believe he did set up a panel/protocol/whatever to check out any proposed vaccines before release.

So Trump wasn't exactly lying, just a very pointed dig back at Cuomo.

[Omy]

I hope my representatives would be skeptical about anything trump was peddling. While he was trying to make Cuomo look bad and to piss off New Yorkers, it only made trump look like his usual vengeful self.

[wenchsenior]

I'm cautiously optimistic that the fact that Trump stopped coloring his hair this week is a tacit acknowledgement that he lost the election.  I'm actually pretty surprised he appeared in public at all without the dyed hair. (ETA: maybe he's depressed and couldn't be bothered?)

[Zamboni]

He's given up on even keeping the illusion that he does any work.

All he does now is tweet and retweet with bitching and complaining about losing the election, claiming he will still win, egging on his supporters to take to the street and and telling the police to crack down violently on counter-protests while bashing anyone who isn't loyal to him.

Without a doubt, he is the worst President of the USA by a huge margin. Counting the days to Jan. 20 while I decorate and cook for the holidays.

[Roadrunner53]

Zamboni, I am with you. January 20, 2021 is going to be a GREAT day for America!

Trump is an instigator getting his people riled up and now protesting while he sits back and acts like little Mr. Innocent. Who me??? Trump is a little baby man that gets no credit for inventing the vaccine in 6 months time. He says Biden couldn't have done it. I am sure Trump has a little laboratory in the bunker where he invented the vaccine.

January 20th is going to be a celebration for this country and I plan to have a special dinner that night!

[LennStar]

Meanwhile the Trumpidiots are going to a new echo chamber called "Parler".
Maybe they will create a virtual USA there where Trump is still president and tells them that they must own the libs if they want the China Virus to go away.

[geekette]

He's given up on even keeping the illusion that he does any work.

All he does now is tweet and retweet with bitching and complaining about losing the election, claiming he will still win, egging on his supporters to take to the street and and telling the police to crack down violently on counter-protests while bashing anyone who isn't loyal to him.

Don't forget begging for donations many times a day!  Someone used my email address to get a Tulsa rally ticket and I never unsubbed, it just gets sent to junk.  For a while, there were 10 emails a day, yesterday it was down to 7.  Claims that the money donated will be used to pay for the GA recount, mount lawsuits, etc.  Nope.  His PAC gets 60% and the RNC gets 40%.  He's a sleaze, as usual.
 

[wenchsenior]

Meanwhile the Trumpidiots are going to a new echo chamber called "Parler".
Maybe they will create a virtual USA there where Trump is still president and tells them that they must own the libs if they want the China Virus to go away.

At least the first surge of kind of scary rage, with threats of armed violence, seems to have ebbed over on RedState.com.  About half the commenters seem to be resigning themselves to the idea that Trump's lawsuits aren't going to work (they are blaming his incompetent legal team or liberal judges, rather than Trump's regular pattern of hiring incompetent people to try to do stupid or illegal things).

All of them still firmly believe that the election was stolen and Trump won, though.

But I do notice they have turned a lot of their ire on Fox, and are discussing many alternative new 'true conservative' news sources, as you note.

[WhiteTrashCash]

Meanwhile the Trumpidiots are going to a new echo chamber called "Parler".
Maybe they will create a virtual USA there where Trump is still president and tells them that they must own the libs if they want the China Virus to go away.

At least the first surge of kind of scary rage, with threats of armed violence, seems to have ebbed over on RedState.com.  About half the commenters seem to be resigning themselves to the idea that Trump's lawsuits aren't going to work (they are blaming his incompetent legal team or liberal judges, rather than Trump's regular pattern of hiring incompetent people to try to do stupid or illegal things).

All of them still firmly believe that the election was stolen and Trump won, though.

But I do notice they have turned a lot of their ire on Fox, and are discussing many alternative new 'true conservative' news sources, as you note.

Fox News was one of the first organizations to call Arizona for Biden, so despite their far right bias, they were at least dealing with reality when it came to the results of the election. Trump supporters are more like the people who follow OAN (One America News) which is basically a fascist news organization that has no interest in truth when it is in opposition to their previously held viewpoints.

[scottish]

How many of Trump's 73M voters fall into the category of Trump supporter?

[Travis]

Meanwhile the Trumpidiots are going to a new echo chamber called "Parler".
Maybe they will create a virtual USA there where Trump is still president and tells them that they must own the libs if they want the China Virus to go away.

At least the first surge of kind of scary rage, with threats of armed violence, seems to have ebbed over on RedState.com.  About half the commenters seem to be resigning themselves to the idea that Trump's lawsuits aren't going to work (they are blaming his incompetent legal team or liberal judges, rather than Trump's regular pattern of hiring incompetent people to try to do stupid or illegal things).

All of them still firmly believe that the election was stolen and Trump won, though.

But I do notice they have turned a lot of their ire on Fox, and are discussing many alternative new 'true conservative' news sources, as you note.

You mean hiring lawyers who are required by law to actually tell the truth? And a lot of the judges throwing out these cases are Republican.

Fox News is going through a bit of a reckoning/identity crisis right now. The channel as a whole is moving forward with Biden, but their key "personalities" are still beating the "stole the election" drum.  One of their anchors gave a report about the status of the election and Biden, and then broke character to say "that's what the teleprompter says, I don't agree with it." They're going to have to sort themselves out soon, especially if this anti-Fox banter gets any traction.

[lukebuz]

So, I was going to start a new thread, but decided to leave it in here.  Short and to the point:  Where are all the Trump supporters?

Is everyone in this forum smart enough to not get conned?  Just seems quite a bit of silence for such a loudmouth...where did they all go?

[Zamboni]

He's given up on even keeping the illusion that he does any work.

All he does now is tweet and retweet with bitching and complaining about losing the election, claiming he will still win, egging on his supporters to take to the street and and telling the police to crack down violently on counter-protests while bashing anyone who isn't loyal to him.

Don't forget begging for donations many times a day!  Someone used my email address to get a Tulsa rally ticket and I never unsubbed, it just gets sent to junk.  For a while, there were 10 emails a day, yesterday it was down to 7.  Claims that the money donated will be used to pay for the GA recount, mount lawsuits, etc.  Nope.  His PAC gets 60% and the RNC gets 40%.  He's a sleaze, as usual.
 

Lol, I too "signed up" for a rally and I was getting 20+ fund raising emails every single day the week after the election. My one sign up so I could throw away tix for a campaign event a couple of years ago now gets me a cycle of "gimmee money" emails from Trumpy himself, TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, Team Trump, Pence, Eric Trump, Don Trump Jr., Lara Trump (who?), Ronna McDaniel, Newt Gingrich (Newty getting in on that grift, lol!), Sarah Huckleberry, etc. It is a throwaway email account, so I haven't checked it recently, but the tenacity of his con is, in itself, impressive.

The emails are all the same: click here to send money and we'll match it 1000%! OMG 1000%! How have I not sent money already?!

Really he and his family's ability to just grift and grift and grift is the only thing they are good at.

[Montecarlo]

So, I was going to start a new thread, but decided to leave it in here.  Short and to the point:  Where are all the Trump supporters?

Is everyone in this forum smart enough to not get conned?  Just seems quite a bit of silence for such a loudmouth...where did they all go?

There are a some voices on here using phrases like MAGAtards and Trumpidiots, and the majority of the voices are vehemently anti trump, but too diplomatic to make asses of themselves.  Why would a Trump supporter want to expose themselves to the ridicule they would get here?

Kinda like being gay in a 1950s evangelical community.  Sometimes easier to keep your mouth shut.

[Montecarlo]

How many of Trump's 73M voters fall into the category of Trump supporter?

Based on my anecdotal experience, at least a large minority, if not majority.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

So, I was going to start a new thread, but decided to leave it in here.  Short and to the point:  Where are all the Trump supporters?

Is everyone in this forum smart enough to not get conned?  Just seems quite a bit of silence for such a loudmouth...where did they all go?

There are a some voices on here using phrases like MAGAtards and Trumpidiots, and the majority of the voices are vehemently anti trump, but too diplomatic to make asses of themselves.  Why would a Trump supporter want to expose themselves to the ridicule they would get here?

Kinda like being gay in a 1950s evangelical community.  Sometimes easier to keep your mouth shut.

I do not get the impression that anyone gets ridiculed here, unless they say something ridiculous or troll-ish.  Like any forum on the internet, you have to be reasonable, not get easily offended, and offer to understand the perspective others share.  Other than that, I find everyone to be tolerant and the moderators to occasionally take care of intentional, serial bad actors.  If you catch anyone calling a poster a MAGAtard or Trumpidiot, you can report the post and they will be warned or banned.  The button to do so is available on every post, if you think breaks the forum rules.

[former player]

So, I was going to start a new thread, but decided to leave it in here.  Short and to the point:  Where are all the Trump supporters?

Is everyone in this forum smart enough to not get conned?  Just seems quite a bit of silence for such a loudmouth...where did they all go?

There are a some voices on here using phrases like MAGAtards and Trumpidiots, and the majority of the voices are vehemently anti trump, but too diplomatic to make asses of themselves.  Why would a Trump supporter want to expose themselves to the ridicule they would get here?

Kinda like being gay in a 1950s evangelical community.  Sometimes easier to keep your mouth shut.

May I ask what you know about being gay in the 1950s?  In any community, or in an evangelical one in particular?

[LennStar]

So, I was going to start a new thread, but decided to leave it in here.  Short and to the point:  Where are all the Trump supporters?

Is everyone in this forum smart enough to not get conned?  Just seems quite a bit of silence for such a loudmouth...where did they all go?

I certainly wondered why the forum (at least the treads I subscribe to) were so quiet. Maybe the silent people were all shot by Rioters? We just have to figure out which side rioted ;)

btw. I think the only one who used Trumpidiots was me yesterday when saying that a certain part of his voters - those who can't accept that His Trumpiness has lost - are going to other Social Media because Trump get's the "that is not a factual statement" treatment on his lies on facebook and twitter.

[rantk81]

Kinda like being gay in a 1950s evangelical community.  Sometimes easier to keep your mouth shut.

Well, the differencing being -- choosing to be a Trump supporter is actually a 'choice'.

[Montecarlo]

Kinda like being gay in a 1950s evangelical community.  Sometimes easier to keep your mouth shut.

Well, the differencing being -- choosing to be a Trump supporter is actually a 'choice'.

One of my best friends is bi.  He prefers sex with women, but he married a man because he has better romantic relationships with me (less fighting, etc).

Is that choosing to be gay?  I don’t know.  What would the problem if someone chose being gay?  I know you didn’t mean it this way, but your comment sounds condescending and homophobic to me.

[Montecarlo]

I mean, it’s like saying “I know you weren’t meaning to sin.  You were just born a sinner and can’t help yourself, so no hard feelings.”

It’s gross and it totally belittles people’s sense of agency in this world.

[talltexan]

So, I was going to start a new thread, but decided to leave it in here.  Short and to the point:  Where are all the Trump supporters?

Is everyone in this forum smart enough to not get conned?  Just seems quite a bit of silence for such a loudmouth...where did they all go?

OP here. I never meant for this thread to be for balanced debate, and I think I was specific about this in the introductory post. Some Trump supporters have stopped through from time-to-time, but there are other threads where more balanced discourse is appropriate. Trump supporters have sometimes said that we are building an echo chamber here because we don't wish to hear dissenting views. Indeed, we have access to many in other places.

[rantk81]

One of my best friends is bi.  He prefers sex with women, but he married a man because he has better romantic relationships with me (less fighting, etc).

Is that choosing to be gay?  I don’t know.  What would the problem if someone chose being gay?  I know you didn’t mean it this way, but your comment sounds condescending and homophobic to me.

Hmm... Totally did not intend for you to take it that way.

My point being, it's not a choice, at all.  If someone is bi, then they are bi. It wasn't a choice.  If someone is gay, then they are gay.  They didn't choose to be gay.  If someone is hetero, then they are hetero.  It's just who someone is -- born that way. 

On the contrary, a person isn't born to be a Trump supporter (nor born to be homophobic, nor born to be a racist, etc.)  For those things, one chooses to be that way.

[Montecarlo]

One of my best friends is bi.  He prefers sex with women, but he married a man because he has better romantic relationships with me (less fighting, etc).

Is that choosing to be gay?  I don’t know.  What would the problem if someone chose being gay?  I know you didn’t mean it this way, but your comment sounds condescending and homophobic to me.

Hmm... Totally did not intend for you to take it that way.

My point being, it's not a choice, at all.  If someone is bi, then they are bi. It wasn't a choice.  If someone is gay, then they are gay.  They didn't choose to be gay.  If someone is hetero, then they are hetero.  It's just who someone is -- born that way. 

On the contrary, a person isn't born to be a Trump supporter (nor born to be homophobic, nor born to be a racist, etc.)  For those things, one chooses to be that way.

There’s a lot of issues here, and I won’t even touch the implication that Trump supporters are bigots.  I’ll let you have that.

1 - is it a moral failing, if someone is straight and chooses to have sex with someone of the same gender?  Say a prostitute?  If not, then why does ‘choice’ factor at all?

2 - is it excusable to vote for a serial sexual assaulted, as long as you were born with a figurative MAGA hat on your head?

3 - I’m going to assume that you feel, like I do, sexual preference is morally neutral, but racism and bigotry is morally bad.  It is odd when comparing something innate and neutral (homosexuality) to something chosen and immoral (bigotry) you point out the difference is the choice, not the inherent moral difference?

[rantk81]

One of my best friends is bi.  He prefers sex with women, but he married a man because he has better romantic relationships with me (less fighting, etc).

Is that choosing to be gay?  I don’t know.  What would the problem if someone chose being gay?  I know you didn’t mean it this way, but your comment sounds condescending and homophobic to me.

Hmm... Totally did not intend for you to take it that way.

My point being, it's not a choice, at all.  If someone is bi, then they are bi. It wasn't a choice.  If someone is gay, then they are gay.  They didn't choose to be gay.  If someone is hetero, then they are hetero.  It's just who someone is -- born that way. 

On the contrary, a person isn't born to be a Trump supporter (nor born to be homophobic, nor born to be a racist, etc.)  For those things, one chooses to be that way.

There’s a lot of issues here, and I won’t even touch the implication that Trump supporters are bigots.  I’ll let you have that.

1 - is it a moral failing, if someone is straight and chooses to have sex with someone of the same gender?  Say a prostitute?  If not, then why does ‘choice’ factor at all?

2 - is it excusable to vote for a serial sexual assaulted, as long as you were born with a figurative MAGA hat on your head?

3 - I’m going to assume that you feel, like I do, sexual preference is morally neutral, but racism and bigotry is morally bad.  It is odd when comparing something innate and neutral (homosexuality) to something chosen and immoral (bigotry) you point out the difference is the choice, not the inherent moral difference?

I really don't understand what you're getting at, so this'll probably be my last response... I didn't mention anything about morals... and for what it's worth, I'm a man who has been happily married to a man for several years.  :shrug:

[Montecarlo]

I really don't understand what you're getting at, so this'll probably be my last response... I didn't mention anything about morals... and for what it's worth, I'm a man who has been happily married to a man for several years.  :shrug:

Exactly!  That’s what I’m getting at.  You ignored the obvious moral difference while emphasizing the innate vs choice difference, which seems completely trivial to me.

[Davnasty]

One of my best friends is bi.  He prefers sex with women, but he married a man because he has better romantic relationships with me (less fighting, etc).

Is that choosing to be gay?  I don’t know.  What would the problem if someone chose being gay?  I know you didn’t mean it this way, but your comment sounds condescending and homophobic to me.

Hmm... Totally did not intend for you to take it that way.

My point being, it's not a choice, at all.  If someone is bi, then they are bi. It wasn't a choice.  If someone is gay, then they are gay.  They didn't choose to be gay.  If someone is hetero, then they are hetero.  It's just who someone is -- born that way. 

On the contrary, a person isn't born to be a Trump supporter (nor born to be homophobic, nor born to be a racist, etc.)  For those things, one chooses to be that way.

There’s a lot of issues here, and I won’t even touch the implication that Trump supporters are bigots.  I’ll let you have that.

1 - is it a moral failing, if someone is straight and chooses to have sex with someone of the same gender?  Say a prostitute?  If not, then why does ‘choice’ factor at all?

2 - is it excusable to vote for a serial sexual assaulted, as long as you were born with a figurative MAGA hat on your head?

3 - I’m going to assume that you feel, like I do, sexual preference is morally neutral, but racism and bigotry is morally bad.  It is odd when comparing something innate and neutral (homosexuality) to something chosen and immoral (bigotry) you point out the difference is the choice, not the inherent moral difference?

I really don't understand what you're getting at, so this'll probably be my last response... I didn't mention anything about morals... and for what it's worth, I'm a man who has been happily married to a man for several years.  :shrug:

You're not alone. It seems their primary goal is to argue about anything and everything. Beyond that, there's not much logic to it.

[Montecarlo]

Lol @Davnasty he’s the one who started that sidebar debate with me, not the other way around.  Check your facts next time tia.

[Davnasty]

Lol @Davnasty he’s the one who started that sidebar debate with me, not the other way around.  Check your facts next time tia.

Ya, but you say silly things and refuse to back down when people, rightly, call you out on it.

Comparing trump supporters not wanting to speak up here to homosexuals not wanting to speak up in the 1950's (or now for that matter) is offensive and deserved to be called out. They weren't just "keeping their mouth shut" they were completely hiding their identity from their community, family, and friends for fear of losing them or worse.

And of course there is the glaring difference that one is a political choice and the other is part of who a person is. How you turned that into "condescending and homophobic" is beyond me. Which is why it looks like you're just counterattacking the person who called you out, they said nothing of the sort.

[jim555]

Did the governor of NY actually refuse it or is this just Trump playing politics and withholding it because he did not kiss trumps ring?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnIlpCpoqjs

"Gov. Andrew Cuomo, D-NY, pushes back on Trump's comments on withholding a coronavirus vaccine from New York after Gov. Cuomo said he would have experts review a vaccine rather than simply take the word of the Trump WH. Aired on 11/16/2020."

[Montecarlo]

@Davnasty

Dave Ruben wrote a comparison between being politically closeted and sexually closeted in his (imo, very good) book Don't Burn this Book.  It is much better than my ham-handed rhetoric.  There is an excerpt in the link, but I recommend picking up a copy.

As someone who has never felt particularly closeted on anything, I found the first chapter immensely moving and revealing, especially this part:

I was so twisted by the closet's solitary existence that I genuinely believed 9/11 was a consequence of my coming out just a few hours earlier.  That's how fucking insane the closet makes you.  It's a depressing, solitary place where there's only room for one.  There's no light, no air, and no comfort.  Just you and your private, dysfunctional thoughts stuck in a constant feedback loop from hell.  It's a danger zone for your happiness, your relationships, and ultimately, your identity, which is why it must be vacated early on.

I doubt Ruben means to precisely equate homosexual closets with political ostracism, and I certainly don't, but my central point still stands: why would a Trump supporter want to come on here and subject themselves to the abuse?

Also, how can someone use a metaphor without being accused of equating two things precisely?  I think I will try to stay away from metaphors from now on.  They seem to be the target instead of, you know, the actual point.

[nereo]

Comparing trump supporters not wanting to speak up here to homosexuals not wanting to speak up in the 1950's (or now for that matter) is offensive and deserved to be called out. They weren't just "keeping their mouth shut" they were completely hiding their identity from their community, family, and friends for fear of losing them or worse.

And of course there is the glaring difference that one is a political choice and the other is part of who a person is. How you turned that into "condescending and homophobic" is beyond me. Which is why it looks like you're just counterattacking the person who called you out, they said nothing of the sort.

Agreed.  At best this is a severely strained and flawed analogy, and walks the line of being against the forum rules (i.e. see use of rape as hyperbole).  Homosexuals were Legally persecuted and excluded, frequently assaulted and occasionally killed. Being a homosexual was quite literally against the law.  There is no fair comparison here.

[Dicey]

So this may qualify as the Trump outrage of the last four years.  How many families are similar.  I know ours has been impacted as I argue with my brother and my parents.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/opinions/trump-tore-my-family-apart-eldredge/index.html

OMG, this is amazing! I'm feeling the same way with my family, but never could have articulated it this well.

[ixtap]

So this may qualify as the Trump outrage of the last four years.  How many families are similar.  I know ours has been impacted as I argue with my brother and my parents.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/opinions/trump-tore-my-family-apart-eldredge/index.html

OMG, this is amazing! I'm feeling the same way with my family, but never could have articulated it this well.

I am very jealous of such families. It was the blatantly racist Obama bashing that tore our family apart.

[FIPurpose]

@Davnasty

Dave Ruben wrote a comparison between being politically closeted and sexually closeted in his (imo, very good) book Don't Burn this Book.  It is much better than my ham-handed rhetoric.  There is an excerpt in the link, but I recommend picking up a copy.

As someone who has never felt particularly closeted on anything, I found the first chapter immensely moving and revealing, especially this part:

I was so twisted by the closet's solitary existence that I genuinely believed 9/11 was a consequence of my coming out just a few hours earlier.  That's how fucking insane the closet makes you.  It's a depressing, solitary place where there's only room for one.  There's no light, no air, and no comfort.  Just you and your private, dysfunctional thoughts stuck in a constant feedback loop from hell.  It's a danger zone for your happiness, your relationships, and ultimately, your identity, which is why it must be vacated early on.

I doubt Ruben means to precisely equate homosexual closets with political ostracism, and I certainly don't, but my central point still stands: why would a Trump supporter want to come on here and subject themselves to the abuse?

Also, how can someone use a metaphor without being accused of equating two things precisely?  I think I will try to stay away from metaphors from now on.  They seem to be the target instead of, you know, the actual point.

The abuse? You mean having to defend how GOP policy decisions are bad for the economy and people at large? Or what are the ramifications of having an internationally hated person as president? Or how ineffectual he's been at handling the pandemic? Or how he dismantled all of the emergency workers and safety precautions that both Bush and Obama had set up for this exact scenario? Yet still want to give him a pass and re-elect him because they believe that even one of the most conservative right-leaning Democrats in the past 40 years is still a liberal socialist who will bring about the end of the nation by making it into a socialist nightmare.

Or are we talking about the Q-anon folk? Who believe in a giant Democrat Child Pedophile ring and Pizzagate? Or believe whatever bad thing they've heard about Biden and (especially) Kamala, and believe every good thing about Trump without any proof whatsoever and will actually deny proof to the contrary. Yeah, those folks are really looking for a long-form extended conversation like this forum.

Yeah, they don't come here because they know it's rotten. These people know that it's indefensible.

There are plenty of libertarian types on this forum and they contribute regularly and have civil political discourse. The difference is that they can actually cite evidence and make reasonable arguments for their claims. Trump supporters are a different sort.

[GuitarStv]

I was so twisted by the closet's solitary existence that I genuinely believed 9/11 was a consequence of my coming out just a few hours earlier.  That's how fucking insane the closet makes you.  It's a depressing, solitary place where there's only room for one.  There's no light, no air, and no comfort.  Just you and your private, dysfunctional thoughts stuck in a constant feedback loop from hell.  It's a danger zone for your happiness, your relationships, and ultimately, your identity, which is why it must be vacated early on.

I doubt Ruben means to precisely equate homosexual closets with political ostracism

He doesn't precisely equate the two, no.  But he very explicitly says that political ostracism for being conservative is substantially worse:

"When I came out of the closet as gay there was almost no backlash.  Y'know some people were kind of surprised, I got probably what you got which is a lot of people said well you don't seem gay because they want you to have taffeta and sparkles and something.  But I didn't get like a lot of anger.  But coming out politically, coming out politically, suddenly I had friends turning on me.  I didn't have any friends that turned on me for being gay.  If anything it strengthened my friendships right because we were being more honest or at least I was being more honest with them.  But when I came out politically, just saying I was frustrated with the left - it wasn't that I had said I'm a conservative or whatever you want to call it.  Uh, but suddenly I was getting a ton of hate." - Dave Rubin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sLdCUzQvpc

[EvenSteven]

@Davnasty

Dave Ruben wrote a comparison between being politically closeted and sexually closeted in his (imo, very good) book Don't Burn this Book.  It is much better than my ham-handed rhetoric.  There is an excerpt in the link, but I recommend picking up a copy.

As someone who has never felt particularly closeted on anything, I found the first chapter immensely moving and revealing, especially this part:

I was so twisted by the closet's solitary existence that I genuinely believed 9/11 was a consequence of my coming out just a few hours earlier.  That's how fucking insane the closet makes you.  It's a depressing, solitary place where there's only room for one.  There's no light, no air, and no comfort.  Just you and your private, dysfunctional thoughts stuck in a constant feedback loop from hell.  It's a danger zone for your happiness, your relationships, and ultimately, your identity, which is why it must be vacated early on.

I doubt Ruben means to precisely equate homosexual closets with political ostracism, and I certainly don't, but my central point still stands: why would a Trump supporter want to come on here and subject themselves to the abuse?

Also, how can someone use a metaphor without being accused of equating two things precisely?  I think I will try to stay away from metaphors from now on.  They seem to be the target instead of, you know, the actual point.

I live in the states, but last year I took my yacht and spent some time vacationing in a castle outside of London. Then I cruised down and did a safari in west Africa before yachting back home. It was a lot like the triangular trade.

What? Why is everyone getting bent out of shape, I'm just saying I took a boat trip across the Atlantic, just like the slaves.


Tom Selleck is a lot like Hitler, in that they both have famous mustaches.

What? It's a metaphor, people!!

[StashingAway]

@Davnasty

Dave Ruben wrote a comparison between being politically closeted and sexually closeted in his (imo, very good) book Don't Burn this Book.  It is much better than my ham-handed rhetoric.  There is an excerpt in the link, but I recommend picking up a copy.

I used to listen to the Rubin Report a lot (still do, but used to too!). His journey has been... interesting. In my opinion he has fallen into the very trap that he was trying to avoid. He was trying to get away from identity politics. Trying to have open conversations and get a bird's eye view of the landscape.

But now his show is almost entirely defined by left vs. right. Us vs. Them. He references "the other" as though we are supposed to know what he is talking about. He has quite a few valid criticism of the media and such, but also got completely sucked into the "classical liberal" (read: conservative) culture. Spent a tour with Jordan Peterson then did some thinking on the beach and decided that he believed in a God. Read Ayn Rand and decided that the world is better with 100% free markets. Not that any of these things are bad, but watching it happen from the outside it is weird to see in real time and to such an extreme. He's using his new hammer to hit lots of nails.

I think he is genuine and that goes a long way, but I wouldn't put much into his present analysis of the current state of affairs. He's taken a big swig of the kool-aid so to speak (at least, from how I see it).

[FIPurpose]

@Davnasty

Dave Ruben wrote a comparison between being politically closeted and sexually closeted in his (imo, very good) book Don't Burn this Book.  It is much better than my ham-handed rhetoric.  There is an excerpt in the link, but I recommend picking up a copy.

I used to listen to the Rubin Report a lot (still do, but used to too!). His journey has been... interesting. In my opinion he has fallen into the very trap that he was trying to avoid. He was trying to get away from identity politics. Trying to have open conversations and get a bird's eye view of the landscape.

But now his show is almost entirely defined by left vs. right. Us vs. Them. He references "the other" as though we are supposed to know what he is talking about. He has quite a few valid criticism of the media and such, but also got completely sucked into the "classical liberal" (read: conservative) culture. Spent a tour with Jordan Peterson then did some thinking on the beach and decided that he believed in a God. Read Ayn Rand and decided that the world is better with 100% free markets. Not that any of these things are bad, but watching it happen from the outside it is weird to see in real time and to such an extreme. He's using his new hammer to hit lots of nails.

I think he is genuine and that goes a long way, but I wouldn't put much into his present analysis of the current state of affairs. He's taken a big swig of the kool-aid so to speak (at least, from how I see it).

Also, he's being paid by Glenn Beck's media group. >90% of his guests are far right-wing. He never challenges them and only expresses doubts to the few left-wing guests he brings on. If he's not a right-wing hack himself, then he's just the tool of right-wing hacks.

[Davnasty]

I doubt Ruben means to precisely equate homosexual closets with political ostracism, and I certainly don't, but my central point still stands: why would a Trump supporter want to come on here and subject themselves to the abuse?

Also, how can someone use a metaphor without being accused of equating two things precisely?  I think I will try to stay away from metaphors from now on.  They seem to be the target instead of, you know, the actual point.

That's a good idea, especially in cases like this where the analogy* doesn't really add to the point. The bolded is easy enough to understand on its own, the analogy actually distracted from your point.

[Just Joe]

So this may qualify as the Trump outrage of the last four years.  How many families are similar.  I know ours has been impacted as I argue with my brother and my parents.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/opinions/trump-tore-my-family-apart-eldredge/index.html

OMG, this is amazing! I'm feeling the same way with my family, but never could have articulated it this well.

That's the trick isn't it - being able to articulate your feelings well? Same problem with some of our family. None of us - on either side - could argue our way out of a paper sack. They parrot their favorite politicians and TV channels. We stick to fact checking. And ultimately little or no progress made... So we avoid the whole thing and wince each time we read their next Facebook post or email railing against those pesky liberals of whom we might be part of depending on the subject.

[Abe]

To be fair, we need to hear the authors' family member's point of view. Family feuds are rarely due to one person's shortcomings alone. He seems pretty upset at someone he claims to love for having opinions that haven't directly hurt him (as far as he explains).

My brother in law supports Trump for reasons I can't fathom. Neither of us are in groups that stand to significantly benefit from his overall policies. However, we've managed to not burn our relationship to the ground because we both accept each other has flaws and family is more important than a one-term president. He's not even a dictator for life! That's when it gets serious, because then you or the other family member may be disappeared!

Not to minimize the suffering all of this has caused. On the one hand it's good to know your relative's true feelings and not just the niceties they like to project. On the other, it's good to know why they feel that way about whatever reason they support Trump. On the balance, it doesn't seem to be worth the time suck. Hopefully bonds can be repaired after he fades up the golden escalator one last time.

[StashingAway]

To be fair, we need to hear the authors' family member's point of view. Family feuds are rarely due to one person's shortcomings alone. He seems pretty upset at someone he claims to love for having opinions that haven't directly hurt him (as far as he explains).

My brother in law supports Trump for reasons I can't fathom. Neither of us are in groups that stand to significantly benefit from his overall policies. However, we've managed to not burn our relationship to the ground because we both accept each other has flaws and family is more important than a one-term president. He's not even a dictator for life! That's when it gets serious, because then you or the other family member may be disappeared!

Not to minimize the suffering all of this has caused. On the one hand it's good to know your relative's true feelings and not just the niceties they like to project. On the other, it's good to know why they feel that way about whatever reason they support Trump. On the balance, it doesn't seem to be worth the time suck. Hopefully bonds can be repaired after he fades up the golden escalator one last time.

I agree, there were a lot of snide comments and lack-of-good-faith arguments in that article. The author is certainly not in the clear even by their own account. I liked the idea of the article and the opening paragraph, but didn't find it to be convincing at all (in fact rater the opposite). Most of the "disagreements" were accounts of conversations on Facebook for goodness sake. If you're concerned about being de-friended on a social media site, give that person a phone call.

[Glenstache]

Meanwhile, Trump's yes-man covid guy is giving patently bad advice. Yes, the isolation of the elderly is terrible, but this is not the solution.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/atlas-urges-people-to-spend-thanksgiving-with-elderly-despite-covid-because-they-may-die-soon

I swear their strategy is just to shake the magic 8 ball until it tells them something they like to hear.

[frugalnacho]

Meanwhile, Trump's yes-man covid guy is giving patently bad advice. Yes, the isolation of the elderly is terrible, but this is not the solution.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/atlas-urges-people-to-spend-thanksgiving-with-elderly-despite-covid-because-they-may-die-soon

I swear their strategy is just to shake the magic 8 ball until it tells them something they like to hear.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. 

The same way I urge all my motorcycle riding friends to drive drunk and not wear helmets.  I mean, you're gonna die very soon anyway, especially if you heed my advice.