Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681128 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4250 on: September 23, 2020, 03:52:30 PM »
Catholic-run facilities are doing this now (not performing any procedures that could lead to an abortion, even when the motherís health is endangered). And often people have no choice to go elsewhere because the Catholic-run company has a monopoly or is the only option under their health insurance. Will try to find the article I read about it.

Isn't that infringing on the women's freedom? Surely it is if adding a "this is not a fact" to a tweet is!!
Not to mention violating the doctor's oath?
Yep, completely. Just like having entire states with no abortion providers, unreasonable regulations on places like planned parenthood, defunding planned parenthood, no federal funding for abortions, employers who can choose not to offer contraceptives in their health insurance plans, and a whole host of other ridiculous and rights-infringing bullshit that happens every day in the good olí US of A.

yes. That's why I don't wholy buy the "pro life" aspect of people who say they are pro life, because they seem very dismissive of the emotional and even physical health of the females in the equation. And I have heard many say that pregancy or birth is the "consequence" of sex. It strikes me as being very female-hating.

I've told my story before. When I was going out with my then boyfriend (now ex husband) I went to planned parenthood to get on the pill. They wouldn't give me the pill unless I had an obgyn exam, my first one. They discovered precancerous cells in the cervix and treated me. If I hadn't gone to planned parenthood, there was a very real chance that it would have progressed to cancer and either made me infertile or even killed me. Instead, I was able to be on the pill till I was READY (and healthy enough) to bear children, and had two wonderful healthy kids. So I thank planned parenthood for giving me my family. I really truly want that every single baby born on this planet is born to people who are emotionally, physically etc ready for that baby and can provide a good home. It's the best outcome for the mother, and it's the best outcome for the child. And it's not possible unless women have control over their own reproductive choices.   

Apparently, fetuses are real people. Grown women are not.

If it makes you feel better, it's only fetuses that are important.  If the unaborted babies grow up starving and impoverished with parents who hate 'em in a ghetto with no real future or way out . . . tough luck kiddo.  Should have chosen better parents.

:P

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4251 on: September 23, 2020, 04:15:02 PM »
Catholic-run facilities are doing this now (not performing any procedures that could lead to an abortion, even when the motherís health is endangered). And often people have no choice to go elsewhere because the Catholic-run company has a monopoly or is the only option under their health insurance. Will try to find the article I read about it.

Isn't that infringing on the women's freedom? Surely it is if adding a "this is not a fact" to a tweet is!!
Not to mention violating the doctor's oath?
Yep, completely. Just like having entire states with no abortion providers, unreasonable regulations on places like planned parenthood, defunding planned parenthood, no federal funding for abortions, employers who can choose not to offer contraceptives in their health insurance plans, and a whole host of other ridiculous and rights-infringing bullshit that happens every day in the good olí US of A.

yes. That's why I don't wholy buy the "pro life" aspect of people who say they are pro life, because they seem very dismissive of the emotional and even physical health of the females in the equation. And I have heard many say that pregancy or birth is the "consequence" of sex. It strikes me as being very female-hating.

I've told my story before. When I was going out with my then boyfriend (now ex husband) I went to planned parenthood to get on the pill. They wouldn't give me the pill unless I had an obgyn exam, my first one. They discovered precancerous cells in the cervix and treated me. If I hadn't gone to planned parenthood, there was a very real chance that it would have progressed to cancer and either made me infertile or even killed me. Instead, I was able to be on the pill till I was READY (and healthy enough) to bear children, and had two wonderful healthy kids. So I thank planned parenthood for giving me my family. I really truly want that every single baby born on this planet is born to people who are emotionally, physically etc ready for that baby and can provide a good home. It's the best outcome for the mother, and it's the best outcome for the child. And it's not possible unless women have control over their own reproductive choices.   

Apparently, fetuses are real people. Grown women are not.

If it makes you feel better, it's only fetuses that are important.  If the unaborted babies grow up starving and impoverished with parents who hate 'em in a ghetto with no real future or way out . . . tough luck kiddo.  Should have chosen better parents.

:P

As Sister Joan Chittister stated, it's pro-birth, not pro-life.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4252 on: September 23, 2020, 07:11:37 PM »
I've spent years trying to understand the Trump side of things by reading the output (via blog or periscope) of a famous cartoonist who has lately made his brand talking about how Trump is a master persuader.

I think he actually has a really smart policy prescription about legalized abortion: have a special referendum in which only women vote. One thing I've already noticed on my own social media is that the pro-life cause is being boosted almost exclusively by women.

PDXTabs

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Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4254 on: September 23, 2020, 07:48:10 PM »
I've spent years trying to understand the Trump side of things by reading the output (via blog or periscope) of a famous cartoonist who has lately made his brand talking about how Trump is a master persuader.

I think he actually has a really smart policy prescription about legalized abortion: have a special referendum in which only women vote. One thing I've already noticed on my own social media is that the pro-life cause is being boosted almost exclusively by women.

Interesting trends regarding that.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx


EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4256 on: September 23, 2020, 09:38:01 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/23/parsing-trumps-there-wont-be-transfer-power-comments/#comments-wrapper
BBC: US election: Trump won't commit to peaceful transfer of power

I just don't understand how any free and open-minded American can vote for a Presidential Candidate that says 'I was President for 4 years and will not cede power if I lose'.  This is a Dictator talking!  George Washington willingly gave up power even though the country overwhelmingly wanted him to continue to preside over them.  Give Trump 4 more years and our country will be unrecognizable, possibly to the point that it will be impossible to give the power back to the 'populace' (i.e. the popular vote).  A failed democracy, rules made by the minority to keep themselves in power, what a terrible legacy to leave our children. 

Abe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4257 on: September 23, 2020, 10:58:53 PM »
I'd be interested to see if that question was posed by a reporter to any other US president, ever. Part of me thinks it wasn't ever a question before, so no one thought to ask. Part of me thinks they were just poking the bear for a soundbite.

Prior farewell comments on transition of power for comparison to Trump's (if he gives one):


Harry Truman:
"My fellow Americans:

I am happy to have this opportunity to talk to you once more before I leave the White House.

Next Tuesday, General Eisenhower will be inaugurated as President of the United States. A short time after the new President takes his oath of office, I will be on the train going back home to Independence, Missouri. I will once again be a plain, private citizen of this great Republic.
That is as it should be. Inauguration Day will be a great demonstration of our democratic process. I am glad to be a part of it-glad to wish General Eisenhower all possible success, as he begins his term--glad the whole world will have a chance to see how simply and how peacefully our American system transfers the vast power of the Presidency from my hands to his. It is a good object lesson in democracy. I am very proud of it. And I know you are, too.
During the last 2 months I have done my best to make this transfer an orderly one. I have talked with my successor on the affairs of the country, both foreign and domestic, and my Cabinet officers have talked with their successors. I want to say that General Eisenhower and his associates have cooperated fully in this effort. Such an orderly transfer from one party to another has never taken place before in our history. I think a real precedent has been set."

Dwight Eisenhower:
"Three days from now, after half a century in the service of our country, I shall lay down the responsibilities of office as, in traditional and solemn ceremony, the authority of the Presidency is vested in my successor. This evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell, and to share a few final thoughts with you, my countrymen. Like every other citizen, I wish the new President, and all who will labor with him, Godspeed. I pray that the coming years will be blessed with peace and prosperity for all."

Lyndon Johnson:
"President-elect Nixon, in the days ahead, is going to need your understanding, just as I did. And he is entitled to have it. I hope every Member will remember that the burdens he will bear as our President, will be borne for all of us. Each of us should try not to increase these burdens for the sake of narrow personal or partisan advantage."

Gerald Ford:
"The people have spoken; they have chosen a new President and a new Congress to work their will. I congratulate youóparticularly the new Membersóas sincerely as I did President-elect Carter....
During the period of my own service in this Capitol and in the White House, I can recall many orderly transitions of governmental responsibilityóof problems as well as of position, of burdens as well as of power. The genius of the American system is that we do this so naturally and so normally. There are no soldiers marching in the street except in the Inaugural Parade; no public demonstrations except for some of the dancers at the Inaugural Ball; the opposition party doesn't go underground, but goes on functioning vigorously in the Congress and in the country; and our vigilant press goes right on probing and publishing our faults and our follies, confirming the wisdom of the framers of the first amendment.
Because of the transfer of authority in our form of government affects the state of the Union and of the world, I am happy to report to you that the current transition is proceeding very well. I was determined that it should; I wanted the new President to get off on an easier start than I had."

Jimmy Carter:
"During the next few days I will work hard to make sure that the transition from myself to the next President is a good one, that the American people are served well...

As I return home to the South, where I was born and raised, I look forward to the opportunity to reflect and further to assess, I hope with accuracy, the circumstances of our times. I intend to give our new President my support, and I intend to work as a citizen, as I've worked here in this office as President, for the values this Nation was founded to secure."

George HW Bush:
"...in 36 days we will have a new President. And I am confident, I am very confident that he will do his level-best to serve the cause that I have outlined here today. And he's going to have my support, and I'll stay out of his way. And I really mean that. But it is more important than my support, it is more important that he have your support. You are our future."

George W Bush:
"Five days from now, the world will witness the vitality of American democracy. In a tradition dating back to our founding, the presidency will pass to a successor chosen by you, the American people. Standing on the steps of the Capitol will be a man whose history reflects the enduring promise of our land. This is a moment of hope and pride for our whole nation. And I join all Americans in offering best wishes to President-Elect Obama, his wife Michelle, and their two beautiful girls."

Barack Obama:
"In 10 days, the world will witness a hallmark of our democracy...the peaceful transfer of power from one freely elected President to the next. I committed to President-elect Trump that my administration would ensure the smoothest possible transition, just as President Bush did for me. Because it's up to all of us to make sure our government can help us meet the many challenges we still face."



LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4258 on: September 24, 2020, 03:47:56 AM »
I guess the more you talk about how great something something has been, the less it is today.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4259 on: September 24, 2020, 06:35:30 AM »
You left out Sec. Clinton: "President Trump deserves an open mind and a chance to lead."

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4260 on: September 24, 2020, 07:06:12 AM »
You left out Sec. Clinton: "President Trump deserves an open mind and a chance to lead."

Wow, what a contrast, I love it!  What voters should expect - open-minded and hopeful vs. (well, whatever FEAR Trump's twitter is spewing).  To me, this is all crystal clear what this election exposes about Trump (starting with non-stop talk about absentee ballots being rigged and not trusting the results, etc).  He weakens our democracy and unity at every turn.

Trump knows he is facing an uphill battle, that much should be consensus. Not many Presidents win re-election while citizens are dying in record numbers from a failed pandemic response.  America could be doing much, much better in terms of social unrest, economic growth across the country, and pandemic response.  We could have risen to the challenges of 2020, instead we get knee-capped at every turn by social unrest, stupid tweets to dictators (my 'nuke' button is bigger than yours, little RocketMan), denigration of decorated servicemen (McCain) and iconic women (RBG, Christine Blasey Ford), and tiny concessions (banning bump stocks after the LV massacre)... all fomented by our Commander In Chief.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 07:07:54 AM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4261 on: September 24, 2020, 07:24:28 AM »
You left out Sec. Clinton: "President Trump deserves an open mind and a chance to lead."

I couldn't hear that over the 'lock her up' chants led by Donald Trump.  Y'know.  The demand that she be locked away for doing the exactly same thing that Trump's daughter did while he was in office.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4262 on: September 24, 2020, 09:00:47 AM »
You left out Sec. Clinton: "President Trump deserves an open mind and a chance to lead."

Wow, what a contrast, I love it!  What voters should expect - open-minded and hopeful vs. (well, whatever FEAR Trump's twitter is spewing).  To me, this is all crystal clear what this election exposes about Trump (starting with non-stop talk about absentee ballots being rigged and not trusting the results, etc).  He weakens our democracy and unity at every turn.

"Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American peopleódoes not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort."
-Trump's Secretary of Defense, General Jim Mattis

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4263 on: September 24, 2020, 10:49:30 AM »
Priceless! Turn your volume up!

I am sure Ruth was smiling down watching Trump squirm like a worm! Hahaha!

https://www.tmz.com/2020/09/24/president-trump-boos-ruth-bader-ginsburg-vote-him-out-chants/

ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4264 on: September 24, 2020, 03:05:29 PM »
Priceless! Turn your volume up!

I am sure Ruth was smiling down watching Trump squirm like a worm! Hahaha!

https://www.tmz.com/2020/09/24/president-trump-boos-ruth-bader-ginsburg-vote-him-out-chants/
Thanks for sharing

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4265 on: September 25, 2020, 03:05:36 AM »
Priceless! Turn your volume up!

I am sure Ruth was smiling down watching Trump squirm like a worm! Hahaha!

https://www.tmz.com/2020/09/24/president-trump-boos-ruth-bader-ginsburg-vote-him-out-chants/
Thanks for sharing
Lucky for him people only turn in their graves, not in their caskets.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4266 on: September 25, 2020, 07:03:25 AM »
Just was reading that Trump discarded ballots by military members into trash.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/us-attorney-battleground-pennsylvania-investigating-023800972.html


GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4267 on: September 25, 2020, 07:15:13 AM »
Just was reading that Trump discarded ballots by military members into trash.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/us-attorney-battleground-pennsylvania-investigating-023800972.html

Makes sense.  Trump has repeatedly called members of the military idiots.  Why would you want idiots voting???

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4268 on: September 25, 2020, 07:24:27 AM »

Makes sense.  Trump has repeatedly called members of the military idiots.  Why would you want idiots voting???

Right?  I mean Trump a lot of times will repeat a headline and take it as fact without investigating further to see if it is accurate.

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4269 on: September 25, 2020, 07:46:37 AM »

Makes sense.  Trump has repeatedly called members of the military idiots.  Why would you want idiots voting???

Right?  I mean Trump a lot of times will repeat a headline and take it as fact without investigating further to see if it is accurate.

This smells like something where they'll make a fuss about a handful of ballots that were discarded (note at least seven of the nine were Trump ballots) and then not make a stink later when 100,000 mail-in ballots go missing, and when it comes up they'd claim (without evidence) that they were all also Trump ballots and he would've won by even more!!!111one

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4270 on: September 25, 2020, 07:52:02 AM »
OP here.

Indeed I created this thread hoping to have one place where I could see all the terrible stuff Trump has been doing, but there have been so many hits lately that I think we've missed more than a few.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4271 on: September 25, 2020, 07:58:06 AM »

Makes sense.  Trump has repeatedly called members of the military idiots.  Why would you want idiots voting???

Right?  I mean Trump a lot of times will repeat a headline and take it as fact without investigating further to see if it is accurate.

This smells like something where they'll make a fuss about a handful of ballots that were discarded (note at least seven of the nine were Trump ballots) and then not make a stink later when 100,000 mail-in ballots go missing, and when it comes up they'd claim (without evidence) that they were all also Trump ballots and he would've won by even more!!!111one

No kidding. Plus, the sad thing is that given the way this administration and its supporters operate, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the people who "found" the ballots put them there in the first place, to manufacture an outrage story.

Sigh.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4272 on: September 25, 2020, 08:44:22 AM »
You left out Sec. Clinton: "President Trump deserves an open mind and a chance to lead."

I couldn't hear that over the 'lock her up' chants led by Donald Trump.  Y'know.  The demand that she be locked away for doing the exactly same thing that Trump's daughter did while he was in office.

I don't think either Ivanka or Hilary did the right thing. But they are definitely not "exactly the same thing".

Hilary stored highly classified emails on a home server for convenience, then deleted them when she was given a subpoena.

Ivanka used her personal gmail to send non classified government email.

Clinton also said that the deleted emails were either personal or non-classified.  She didn't 'delete them when given a subpoena', she had requested that they be deleted months before the subpoena was issued.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4273 on: September 25, 2020, 08:59:25 AM »
You left out Sec. Clinton: "President Trump deserves an open mind and a chance to lead."

I couldn't hear that over the 'lock her up' chants led by Donald Trump.  Y'know.  The demand that she be locked away for doing the exactly same thing that Trump's daughter did while he was in office.

I don't think either Ivanka or Hilary did the right thing. But they are definitely not "exactly the same thing".

Hilary stored highly classified emails on a home server for convenience, then deleted them when she was given a subpoena.

Ivanka used her personal gmail to send non classified government email.

Clinton also said that the deleted emails were either personal or non-classified.  She didn't 'delete them when given a subpoena', she had requested that they be deleted months before the subpoena was issued.

Ignoring the deleting part, Clinton's email issue was still on a whole different level than Ivanka's.

Again, not saying what Ivanka did was right.

Ivanka's emails were sent to White House aides, Cabinet members and Ivanka Trumpís assistants, many in violation of public records rules.  Can you spell out what makes it a 'whole different level'?  Both were pretty minor infractions regarding misuse of email while in office.

There were also 22 million emails sent from addresses on an RNC private email server regarding government business when the Bush administration was in power.  Weird that that doesn't get any discussion.  It's almost like . . . the Clinton thing was a manufactured scandal and Republicans don't really care about the use of email by government.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4274 on: September 25, 2020, 10:05:42 AM »
You left out Sec. Clinton: "President Trump deserves an open mind and a chance to lead."

I couldn't hear that over the 'lock her up' chants led by Donald Trump.  Y'know.  The demand that she be locked away for doing the exactly same thing that Trump's daughter did while he was in office.

I don't think either Ivanka or Hilary did the right thing. But they are definitely not "exactly the same thing".

Hilary stored highly classified emails on a home server for convenience, then deleted them when she was given a subpoena.

Ivanka used her personal gmail to send non classified government email.

Clinton also said that the deleted emails were either personal or non-classified.  She didn't 'delete them when given a subpoena', she had requested that they be deleted months before the subpoena was issued.

Ignoring the deleting part, Clinton's email issue was still on a whole different level than Ivanka's.

Again, not saying what Ivanka did was right.

Ivanka's emails were sent to White House aides, Cabinet members and Ivanka Trumpís assistants, many in violation of public records rules.  Can you spell out what makes it a 'whole different level'?  Both were pretty minor infractions regarding misuse of email while in office.

Edit: Clinton said that she did not have classified information, but the FBI investigation found that she did: "An FBI examination of Clinton's server found over 100 emails containing classified information, including 65 emails deemed "Secret" and 22 deemed "Top Secret". An additional 2,093 emails not marked classified were retroactively classified by the State Department.". It's believed she did not understand the difference.

The difference is Clinton had classified information on an unsecure home system.

As a software developer, some of the things I've read about it have made me cringe:
* "transmissions to and from the server were apparently not encrypted"
* "Clinton's server was configured to allow users to connect openly from the Internet and control it remotely using Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services."

There is no proof that she was hacked, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was. A lot of security breaches aren't known until years after the fact. It's difficult to know when hacking is occurring, since IT people usually only have log files to rely on. Especially considering Clinton only had one untrained person managing the server. Michael Hayden agrees with me: "I would lose all respect for a whole bunch of foreign intelligence agencies if they weren't sitting back, paging through the emails."

This is compounded with the facts that Clinton:
* Did not have permission to have the home server
* Had the ability to use the federal governments secure email system
* Clinton had no good reason to use a home server. Convenience is a terrible reason when you are dealing with classified information.

I have a few friends who work with classified systems and have classified emails. To access these systems, they must:
* Have a security clearance
* Access this email on a secure computer at a secure location that must be plugged into a monitored wall at all times. If they need to move it, it needs to be requested and approved by IT.
* At this secure location, they cannot bring in their phones, bluetooth devices, or anything with a microphone or camera.

I'm concerned that you think that Clinton's blatant disregard of security with classified information is a "minor infraction".

And what did the FBI investigation of Ivanka Trump's (and Jared Kushner's) emails show?  Or were Republicans so concerned about emails that no investigation took place, and we took their word at it?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 10:08:09 AM by GuitarStv »

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4275 on: September 25, 2020, 10:17:52 AM »
With the facts we know right now:
* Hilary and Ivanka both violated public record laws.
* Clinton also disregarded proper security procedures to protect classified information.

Agree?

Not GuiterStv, but jumping in because this is fun.

You ignored other things we know. Most importantly:
* Republicans showed total disregard to public record laws by ignoring to apply same standards for investigations towards Ivanca/Jared as they did for Clinton.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4276 on: September 25, 2020, 10:21:00 AM »
You left out Sec. Clinton: "President Trump deserves an open mind and a chance to lead."

I couldn't hear that over the 'lock her up' chants led by Donald Trump.  Y'know.  The demand that she be locked away for doing the exactly same thing that Trump's daughter did while he was in office.

I don't think either Ivanka or Hilary did the right thing. But they are definitely not "exactly the same thing".

Hilary stored highly classified emails on a home server for convenience, then deleted them when she was given a subpoena.

Ivanka used her personal gmail to send non classified government email.

Clinton also said that the deleted emails were either personal or non-classified.  She didn't 'delete them when given a subpoena', she had requested that they be deleted months before the subpoena was issued.

Ignoring the deleting part, Clinton's email issue was still on a whole different level than Ivanka's.

Again, not saying what Ivanka did was right.

Ivanka's emails were sent to White House aides, Cabinet members and Ivanka Trumpís assistants, many in violation of public records rules.  Can you spell out what makes it a 'whole different level'?  Both were pretty minor infractions regarding misuse of email while in office.

Edit: Clinton said that she did not have classified information, but the FBI investigation found that she did: "An FBI examination of Clinton's server found over 100 emails containing classified information, including 65 emails deemed "Secret" and 22 deemed "Top Secret". An additional 2,093 emails not marked classified were retroactively classified by the State Department.". It's believed she did not understand the difference.

The difference is Clinton had classified information on an unsecure home system.

As a software developer, some of the things I've read about it have made me cringe:
* "transmissions to and from the server were apparently not encrypted"
* "Clinton's server was configured to allow users to connect openly from the Internet and control it remotely using Microsoft's Remote Desktop Services."

There is no proof that she was hacked, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was. A lot of security breaches aren't known until years after the fact. It's difficult to know when hacking is occurring, since IT people usually only have log files to rely on. Especially considering Clinton only had one untrained person managing the server. Michael Hayden agrees with me: "I would lose all respect for a whole bunch of foreign intelligence agencies if they weren't sitting back, paging through the emails."

This is compounded with the facts that Clinton:
* Did not have permission to have the home server
* Had the ability to use the federal governments secure email system
* Clinton had no good reason to use a home server. Convenience is a terrible reason when you are dealing with classified information.

I have a few friends who work with classified systems and have classified emails. To access these systems, they must:
* Have a security clearance
* Access this email on a secure computer at a secure location that must be plugged into a monitored wall at all times. If they need to move it, it needs to be requested and approved by IT.
* At this secure location, they cannot bring in their phones, bluetooth devices, or anything with a microphone or camera.

I'm concerned that you think that Clinton's blatant disregard of security with classified information is a "minor infraction".

And what did the FBI investigation of Ivanka Trump's (and Jared Kushner's) emails show?  Or were Republicans so concerned about emails that no investigation took place, and we took their word at it?

I don't know.

With the facts we know right now:
* Hilary and Ivanka both violated public record laws.
* Clinton also disregarded proper security procedures to protect classified information.

Agree?

Sure.

As long as we also add in:
* No investigation of the email belonging to Ivanka (or Jared) so we don't know if they did the same
* The violation that Clinton made was also made by the Bush administration with the RNC private server

Because of the above two points, I have difficulty believing there's much actual concern about the acts that Clinton did or didn't commit.  It seems to have been a largely politically manufactured outrage event specifically targeted (and successful) in discrediting a presidential candidate.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4277 on: September 25, 2020, 10:54:25 AM »
With the facts we know right now:
* Hilary and Ivanka both violated public record laws.
* Clinton also disregarded proper security procedures to protect classified information.

Agree?

Not GuiterStv, but jumping in because this is fun.

You ignored other things we know. Most importantly:
* Republicans showed total disregard to public record laws by ignoring to apply same standards for investigations towards Ivanca/Jared as they did for Clinton.

I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump or Barr have some input in preventing an investigation.

As long as we give equal importance to equal infraction (e.g. if you are equally riled up about Ivanca as you are about Hillary), I think nobody will disagree that Hillary Clinton was a poor choice as the Democratic nominee. Criminal? Probably no (else she would have been in jail with so many vindictive republican's behind her). Unethical - probably yes!!

But none of these matter when the other choice is the current Republican party.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4278 on: September 25, 2020, 12:01:19 PM »
At least for presidential, republican wasn't the only choice ;) I voted green then.

<mock outrage with a tinge of sadness>
If you are in one of the swing states (which I don't know if you are or not), then a hundred thousand people like you created Trump.
</mock outrage with a tinge of sadness>

I believe it is important to differentiate between garden variety political corruption (==Clinton) and wannabe fascists.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4279 on: September 25, 2020, 12:07:01 PM »
Catholic-run facilities are doing this now (not performing any procedures that could lead to an abortion, even when the motherís health is endangered). And often people have no choice to go elsewhere because the Catholic-run company has a monopoly or is the only option under their health insurance. Will try to find the article I read about it.

Isn't that infringing on the women's freedom? Surely it is if adding a "this is not a fact" to a tweet is!!
Not to mention violating the doctor's oath?

Under the First  Amendment's Free Exercise Clause  and the RFRA  a  Catholic facility's choice to do as posted does not violate a woman's fundamental right of bodily autonomy to  choose certain medical procedures.


Religious Freedom Restoration Act | United States [1993 ...
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Religious-Freedom-Restoration-Act
Aug 29, 2020 ∑ Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), (1993), U.S. legislation that originally prohibited the federal government and the states from ďsubstantially burden[ing] a personís exercise of religionĒ unless ďapplication of the burdenÖis in furtherance of a compelling governmental interestĒ and ďis the least restrictive means of furthering thatÖinterest.Ē
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 12:35:21 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

Omy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4280 on: September 25, 2020, 12:14:22 PM »
So we can rest easy now...Trump is going to fix the healthcare system with a couple of executive orders.

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4281 on: September 25, 2020, 12:59:35 PM »
At least for presidential, republican wasn't the only choice ;) I voted green then.

<mock outrage with a tinge of sadness>
If you are in one of the swing states (which I don't know if you are or not), then a hundred thousand people like you created Trump.
</mock outrage with a tinge of sadness>

I believe it is important to differentiate between garden variety political corruption (==Clinton) and wannabe fascists.

I did live in a swing state then. I hope you can forgive me.

Where I live now is almost a guaranteed Trump win. So I'm going third party.

It was said in jest.

I have nothing against people who do things for the correct reasons.

I *know* and am friends with people who voted for Trump for reasons that are not unethical (
He argued that US needs to become a "normal" country and shed it's "manifest destiny" moorings. I don't agree with him, but I do agree Clinton definitely wan't the right candidate for that and Trump sounded like he wanted to do this.
).


LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4282 on: September 25, 2020, 01:13:24 PM »
Catholic-run facilities are doing this now (not performing any procedures that could lead to an abortion, even when the motherís health is endangered). And often people have no choice to go elsewhere because the Catholic-run company has a monopoly or is the only option under their health insurance. Will try to find the article I read about it.

Isn't that infringing on the women's freedom? Surely it is if adding a "this is not a fact" to a tweet is!!
Not to mention violating the doctor's oath?

Under the First  Amendment's Free Exercise Clause  and the RFRA  a  Catholic facility's choice to do as posted does not violate a woman's fundamental right of bodily autonomy to  choose certain medical procedures.

Well, under the hippocratic oath it does. Because the topic was not (only) bodily autonomy, but bodily health. The OP wrote  even when the motherís health is endangered

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4283 on: September 25, 2020, 10:46:30 PM »

Makes sense.  Trump has repeatedly called members of the military idiots.  Why would you want idiots voting???

Right?  I mean Trump a lot of times will repeat a headline and take it as fact without investigating further to see if it is accurate.

This smells like something where they'll make a fuss about a handful of ballots that were discarded (note at least seven of the nine were Trump ballots) and then not make a stink later when 100,000 mail-in ballots go missing, and when it comes up they'd claim (without evidence) that they were all also Trump ballots and he would've won by even more!!!111one

No kidding. Plus, the sad thing is that given the way this administration and its supporters operate, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the people who "found" the ballots put them there in the first place, to manufacture an outrage story.

Sigh.

Manufacturing crises and pointing at them is kind of his shtick.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4284 on: September 26, 2020, 06:43:41 AM »
At least for presidential, republican wasn't the only choice ;) I voted green then.

<mock outrage with a tinge of sadness>
If you are in one of the swing states (which I don't know if you are or not), then a hundred thousand people like you created Trump.
</mock outrage with a tinge of sadness>

I believe it is important to differentiate between garden variety political corruption (==Clinton) and wannabe fascists.

I did live in a swing state then. I hope you can forgive me.

Where I live now is almost a guaranteed Trump win. So I'm going third party.

It was said in jest.

I have nothing against people who do things for the correct reasons.

I *know* and am friends with people who voted for Trump for reasons that are not unethical (
He argued that US needs to become a "normal" country and shed it's "manifest destiny" moorings. I don't agree with him, but I do agree Clinton definitely wan't the right candidate for that and Trump sounded like he wanted to do this.
).

My neighbor voted third party. He hates Trump but also fed into the BS propaganda about Clinton. I said "thanks for helping Trump win." It was said partly in jest and he didn't take offense to it.  Not too long ago he was trying to tell me Biden and Trump are exactly the same. I was like wow, just wow.


marty998

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4286 on: September 26, 2020, 06:16:52 PM »
Can someone explain to me the naked ballots thing in Philadelphia I think it is(?)

Something about having to put your ballot in a privacy sleeve, before it goes in the envelope.

And if itís not in the sleeve then it gets thrown out as invalid.

If this is challenged in court... how is it going to be proven whether a ballot is in a sleeve or not when the electoral office opens the envelope?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4287 on: September 26, 2020, 06:32:23 PM »
Can someone explain to me the naked ballots thing in Philadelphia I think it is(?)

Something about having to put your ballot in a privacy sleeve, before it goes in the envelope.

And if itís not in the sleeve then it gets thrown out as invalid.

If this is challenged in court... how is it going to be proven whether a ballot is in a sleeve or not when the electoral office opens the envelope?

I think the issue of naked ballots  has something to do with the person authorized to open  the envelope containing the ballot being able to see who the voter is who filled out the ballot AND who/what  they voted for.


OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4288 on: September 26, 2020, 06:35:12 PM »
Can someone explain to me the naked ballots thing in Philadelphia I think it is(?)

Something about having to put your ballot in a privacy sleeve, before it goes in the envelope.

And if itís not in the sleeve then it gets thrown out as invalid.

If this is challenged in court... how is it going to be proven whether a ballot is in a sleeve or not when the electoral office opens the envelope?

I think the issue of naked ballots  has something to do with the person authorized to open  the envelope containing the ballot being able to see who the voter is who filled out the ballot AND who/what  they voted for.

Itís a relic from a time when humans opened the envelopes, which (I read somewhere) is now done by machines, so the rule is pointless.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4289 on: September 26, 2020, 06:38:49 PM »
Can someone explain to me the naked ballots thing in Philadelphia I think it is(?)

Something about having to put your ballot in a privacy sleeve, before it goes in the envelope.

And if itís not in the sleeve then it gets thrown out as invalid.

If this is challenged in court... how is it going to be proven whether a ballot is in a sleeve or not when the electoral office opens the envelope?

I think the issue of naked ballots  has something to do with the person authorized to open  the envelope containing the ballot being able to see who the voter is who filled out the ballot AND who/what  they voted for.

Itís a relic from a time when humans opened the envelopes, which (I read somewhere) is now done by machines, so the rule is pointless.

It's not pointless if it allows votes to be thrown out and discounted.  Anti-democratic, and detrimental to society - but not pointless.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 08:11:25 AM by GuitarStv »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4290 on: September 26, 2020, 06:44:23 PM »
Can someone explain to me the naked ballots thing in Philadelphia I think it is(?)

Something about having to put your ballot in a privacy sleeve, before it goes in the envelope.

And if itís not in the sleeve then it gets thrown out as invalid.

If this is challenged in court... how is it going to be proven whether a ballot is in a sleeve or not when the electoral office opens the envelope?

I think the issue of naked ballots  has something to do with the person authorized to open  the envelope containing the ballot being able to see who the voter is who filled out the ballot AND who/what  they voted for.

Itís a relic from a time when humans opened the envelopes, which (I read somewhere) is now done by machines, so the rule is pointless.

Noted.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4291 on: September 27, 2020, 03:54:59 AM »
Can someone explain to me the naked ballots thing in Philadelphia I think it is(?)

Something about having to put your ballot in a privacy sleeve, before it goes in the envelope.

And if itís not in the sleeve then it gets thrown out as invalid.

If this is challenged in court... how is it going to be proven whether a ballot is in a sleeve or not when the electoral office opens the envelope?

I think the issue of naked ballots  has something to do with the person authorized to open  the envelope containing the ballot being able to see who the voter is who filled out the ballot AND who/what  they voted for.

I am not sure machines are doing that (at least here).
In Germany if you mail vote or early vote, you get a numbered envelope. In that you put a blank envelope with your vote.
When the votes are counted, one person opens your numbered envelope and checks that you have voted (to prevent double voting). This person knows you have voted, but not what. And it is recountable.
Another person opens the blank envelopes and counts the votes. This person know what was voted for, but not by whom. And it is recountable.

That is an easy way to have a secret, secure voting.

And at this you can also see why a voting machine (besides being a few hours faster for a preliminary result) is useless because not compatible with a correct election. Either the computer knows both who has voted and what, or you cannot recount with trust that the machine does not change the numbers.
Not to mention the hilarious easy ways to hack them. Like "nobody watching your two hands (in the sight-blocked voting cabin ahem) for 5 seconds so you can stick in an USB stick"?

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4292 on: September 27, 2020, 05:41:06 AM »
Can someone explain to me the naked ballots thing in Philadelphia I think it is(?)

Something about having to put your ballot in a privacy sleeve, before it goes in the envelope.

And if itís not in the sleeve then it gets thrown out as invalid.

If this is challenged in court... how is it going to be proven whether a ballot is in a sleeve or not when the electoral office opens the envelope?

I think the issue of naked ballots  has something to do with the person authorized to open  the envelope containing the ballot being able to see who the voter is who filled out the ballot AND who/what  they voted for.

Itís a relic from a time when humans opened the envelopes, which (I read somewhere) is now done by machines, so the rule is pointless.

It is still done by humans in my community. It's why our local clerks hire several teams of four workers each to process absentee ballots on Election Day. It's why several nonprofits that support election rights have pushed to extend the law to allow the clerks' staff to begin removing the envelopes the day before Election Day. A relevant bill has passed the state legislature and should be signed by the governor soon. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/3518646001

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4293 on: September 27, 2020, 07:29:14 AM »
Can someone explain to me the naked ballots thing in Philadelphia I think it is(?)

Something about having to put your ballot in a privacy sleeve, before it goes in the envelope.

And if itís not in the sleeve then it gets thrown out as invalid.

If this is challenged in court... how is it going to be proven whether a ballot is in a sleeve or not when the electoral office opens the envelope?

I think the issue of naked ballots  has something to do with the person authorized to open  the envelope containing the ballot being able to see who the voter is who filled out the ballot AND who/what  they voted for.

Itís a relic from a time when humans opened the envelopes, which (I read somewhere) is now done by machines, so the rule is pointless.

It is still done by humans in my community. It's why our local clerks hire several teams of four workers each to process absentee ballots on Election Day. It's why several nonprofits that support election rights have pushed to extend the law to allow the clerks' staff to begin removing the envelopes the day before Election Day. A relevant bill has passed the state legislature and should be signed by the governor soon. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/3518646001

From an article in the Washington Post:

ď The idea behind secrecy envelopes is to ensure that an election official opening the mail to process a voterís ballot is not able to match votersí name with how they voted, thereby ensuring privacy for the voter, said Michael Thorning, associate director of governance at the Bipartisan Policy Center.
But much of that processing work is now done by machines that process high volumes of envelopes at a time, and in many states, an elections official only gets involved after the ballots have been separated from any identifiable information of voters, Thorning said.Ē

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pennsylvania-naked-ballots/2020/09/24/a559a380-fe9c-11ea-b555-4d71a9254f4b_story.html

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4294 on: September 27, 2020, 11:01:28 AM »
"Disgrace" is one of Trump's grossly overused words.

It certainly applies to him and his execrable sowing of seeds of uncertainty about the reliability and security of mail-in voting.

"Orange man bad" is a fitting disparagement.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4295 on: September 27, 2020, 04:57:55 PM »
NY Times:LONG-CONCEALED RECORDS SHOW TRUMPíS CHRONIC LOSSES AND YEARS OF TAX AVOIDANCE

Quote
Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years ó largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

Meanwhile, my husband and I paid more than that in federal taxes per quarter in 2010, when husband was unemployed thanks to the Great Recession and I was earning a $25k grad research assistant stipend, and our house had lost 80% of its value compared to what we had paid 7 years earlier.

Fuck this shit. Revolution sounds pretty fucking great right now.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 06:55:24 PM by OtherJen »

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4296 on: September 27, 2020, 05:06:23 PM »
NY Times:LONG-CONCEALED RECORDS SHOW TRUMPíS CHRONIC LOSSES AND YEARS OF TAX AVOIDANCE

Quote
Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years ó largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

Meanwhile, my husband and I paid more than that in federal taxes per quarter in 2010, when husband was unemployed thanks to the Great Recession and I was earning a $25k grad research assistant stipend, and our house had lost 80% of its value to what we had paid 7 years earlier.

Fuck this shit. Revolution sounds pretty fucking great right now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/27/donald-trump-denies-income-tax-report/3556287001/

Many times in the past, Trump bragged about paying no taxes because he had such great lawyers and accountants.  Now he wants to act like paying no taxes was a lie?  I'm so confused, but this isn't the first time.  If only hard-working, tax-paying Americans could see him for what he really is...  Not only would they not support him, they would absolutely hate him.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 05:09:53 PM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

Barbaebigode

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4297 on: September 27, 2020, 05:28:03 PM »
NY Times:LONG-CONCEALED RECORDS SHOW TRUMPíS CHRONIC LOSSES AND YEARS OF TAX AVOIDANCE

Quote
Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years ó largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

Meanwhile, my husband and I paid more than that in federal taxes per quarter in 2010, when husband was unemployed thanks to the Great Recession and I was earning a $25k grad research assistant stipend, and our house had lost 80% of its value to what we had paid 7 years earlier.

Fuck this shit. Revolution sounds pretty fucking great right now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/27/donald-trump-denies-income-tax-report/3556287001/

Many times in the past, Trump bragged about paying no taxes because he had such great lawyers and accountants.  Now he wants to act like paying no taxes was a lie?  I'm so confused, but this isn't the first time.  If only hard-working, tax-paying Americans could see him for what he really is...  Not only would they not support him, they would absolutely hate him.

That won't happen. It will be either "fake news" or "he's so smart, if I were in his shoes I would have done the same"

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4298 on: September 27, 2020, 06:36:34 PM »
NY Times:LONG-CONCEALED RECORDS SHOW TRUMPíS CHRONIC LOSSES AND YEARS OF TAX AVOIDANCE

Quote
Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years ó largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

Meanwhile, my husband and I paid more than that in federal taxes per quarter in 2010, when husband was unemployed thanks to the Great Recession and I was earning a $25k grad research assistant stipend, and our house had lost 80% of its value to what we had paid 7 years earlier.

Fuck this shit. Revolution sounds pretty fucking great right now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/27/donald-trump-denies-income-tax-report/3556287001/

Many times in the past, Trump bragged about paying no taxes because he had such great lawyers and accountants.  Now he wants to act like paying no taxes was a lie?  I'm so confused, but this isn't the first time.  If only hard-working, tax-paying Americans could see him for what he really is...  Not only would they not support him, they would absolutely hate him.

That won't happen. It will be either "fake news" or "he's so smart, if I were in his shoes I would have done the same"

I'd just love to know what would outrage a Trumper at this point!  No matter what horrible thing he does to this country that I once loved, he makes me feel like a sucker for paying hundreds of thousands in taxes, so I'm a loser and don't deserve to be here...  Little do they know, a country that lives on debt to look rich will become the next Trump Property - bankrupt!  It'll only take FOUR MORE YEARS!!  WooHoo 

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4299 on: September 27, 2020, 11:33:07 PM »
Even more outrageous though, Trump was bankrupt when he 'assumed' the Presidency, but he's comfortably solvent now!  I wonder what his tax returns will look like from 2016 onward - and if he'll report all of his emoluments and what-not...