Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681602 times)

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5300 on: November 06, 2020, 07:11:25 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?

It's a misdemeanor, yes, similar to jaywalking or a speeding ticket. And no this was not at all necessary, as evidenced by the fact that other presidents didn't do it. The Trump administration had to react "strongly" to boarder crossings going up in Trump's first year before the midterms because Trump had made immigration his signature issue, and this is what they came up with. The intentional cruelty was the point in order to act as a deterrent. And that's not even really an opinion, Sessions basically says as much in the original "zero tolerance" memo.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5301 on: November 06, 2020, 07:11:51 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Sure.


Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?

The children are typically placed with the other parent or family.  Unless a court finds the parent unfit, the parent incarcerated still retains rights over things that happen to the child and must be consulted and provide consent on various issues in the child's life.  Very young children of course are typically not separated, and kept with the mother in a prison nursery.

There is never any confusion about who the child belongs to, or 'forgetting' the names of the parents who are separated from infants/toddlers because there exists no excuse beyond 'evil' for that to happen in this day and age.


As has been mentioned - no other president separated children from their parents when illegal immigration took place, as the parents are not considered a risk to the children and they would all be deported together anyway.  There's no reason to do so other than to cause the families suffering.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 07:15:28 AM by GuitarStv »

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5302 on: November 06, 2020, 07:13:28 AM »
@sherr show me the opinion poll where republicans support the permanent removal of children from their mothers.

Your confusing a shitty administration doing a shitty job/ evil act (depending on how willing you are to give the benefit of the doubt) with mainstream Republican opinion.  I’m pretty sure if the Republican base was super enthused the practice would not have ended years ago.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5303 on: November 06, 2020, 07:15:22 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Sure.


Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?

The children are typically placed with the other parent or family.  Unless a court finds the parent unfit, the parent incarcerated still retains rights over things that happen to the child and must be consulted and provide consent on various issues in the child's life.  Very young children of course are typically not separated, and kept with the mother in a prison nursery.

There is never any confusion about who the child belongs to, or 'forgetting' the names of the parents who are separated from infants/toddlers because there exists no excuse beyond 'evil' for that to happen in this day and age.

Okay so we are agreed then 100%

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5304 on: November 06, 2020, 07:16:44 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Sure.


Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?

The children are typically placed with the other parent or family.  Unless a court finds the parent unfit, the parent incarcerated still retains rights over things that happen to the child and must be consulted and provide consent on various issues in the child's life.  Very young children of course are typically not separated, and kept with the mother in a prison nursery.

There is never any confusion about who the child belongs to, or 'forgetting' the names of the parents who are separated from infants/toddlers because there exists no excuse beyond 'evil' for that to happen in this day and age.

Okay so we are agreed then 100%

Seems like you missed a paragraph in GuitarStv's post.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5305 on: November 06, 2020, 07:17:25 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Sure.


Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?

The children are typically placed with the other parent or family.  Unless a court finds the parent unfit, the parent incarcerated still retains rights over things that happen to the child and must be consulted and provide consent on various issues in the child's life.  Very young children of course are typically not separated, and kept with the mother in a prison nursery.

There is never any confusion about who the child belongs to, or 'forgetting' the names of the parents who are separated from infants/toddlers because there exists no excuse beyond 'evil' for that to happen in this day and age.

Okay so we are agreed then 100%

So you agree that the separation policy enforced for illegal immigrants was both cruel and unusual (in that it regularly separated infants from their families and often failed to do the required paperwork to re-unite children with their families)?

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5306 on: November 06, 2020, 07:18:10 AM »
@bbqbonelesswing elaborate please

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5307 on: November 06, 2020, 07:19:50 AM »
@GuitarStv yes, with the caveat that I think removal of children, in and of itself, presumably it is done right (placing with a competent and not overworked foster family) is nothing cruel and unusual.  The way the administration did it is evil, imo

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5308 on: November 06, 2020, 07:21:00 AM »
@GuitarStv yes, with the caveat that I think removal of children, in and of itself, presumably it is done right (placing with a competent and not overworked foster family) is nothing cruel and unusual.  The way the administration did it is evil, imo

Then why does the US penal system not remove infants from their families?  Why do prison nurseries exist?

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5309 on: November 06, 2020, 07:21:05 AM »
@bbqbonelesswing elaborate please

You did not include his last paragraph when quoting... see above.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5310 on: November 06, 2020, 07:22:00 AM »
@bbqbonelesswing elaborate please

You did not include his last paragraph when quoting... see above.

I edited my post adding that paragraph as Montecarlo was posting his response.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5311 on: November 06, 2020, 07:29:33 AM »
@sherr show me the opinion poll where republicans support the permanent removal of children from their mothers.

Your confusing a shitty administration doing a shitty job/ evil act (depending on how willing you are to give the benefit of the doubt) with mainstream Republican opinion.  I’m pretty sure if the Republican base was super enthused the practice would not have ended years ago.



Almost 70M people voted for Trump.  Enough with the fucking bullshit, you can't continue to claim you don't support these evil shitty policies as you're actively voting for them.  Trump is a fucking monster, and anyone that supports him is a fucking monster. 

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5312 on: November 06, 2020, 07:30:31 AM »
@bbqbonelesswing elaborate please

You did not include his last paragraph when quoting... see above.

I edited my post adding that paragraph as Montecarlo was posting his response.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry, carry on :)

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5313 on: November 06, 2020, 07:34:27 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?
Apart from the unconscionable cruelty of separating these children, I don't often see people pointing out the sheer stupidity of it.  Those separated children whose parents cannot be found are now, de facto, permanent immigrants to the USA, precisely the opposite effect of what the Trump administration said it wanted.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5314 on: November 06, 2020, 07:38:23 AM »
@GuitarStv yes, with the caveat that I think removal of children, in and of itself, presumably it is done right (placing with a competent and not overworked foster family) is nothing cruel and unusual.  The way the administration did it is evil, imo

Lol, I am a foster parent and I can tell you first hand that there is zero possible way that the foster system could absorb a sudden and continuous influx of thousands of kids. And you're still missing something very vital: THE CRUELTY WAS THE POINT!

It was INTENTIONAL. They wanted this to act as a deterrent. There's a 2017 interview with John Kelly where he's saying that he's thinking about separating families as a deterrent in order to "keep people off this awful/dangerous network". Not keeping records is not "incompetence", it is intentional. The conditionals in the detention centers are not "incompetence", they are intentional. Unnecessarily tearing families apart solely to use the suffering of their children as a deterrent to others is cruel and unusual.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 07:46:09 AM by sherr »

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5315 on: November 06, 2020, 07:49:39 AM »
@GuitarStv yes, with the caveat that I think removal of children, in and of itself, presumably it is done right (placing with a competent and not overworked foster family) is nothing cruel and unusual.  The way the administration did it is evil, imo

Then why does the US penal system not remove infants from their families?  Why do prison nurseries exist?

I don’t have an issue per se with prison nurseries and I certainly don’t advocate separating children of any age from their parents when the sole crime committed is an illegal border crossing.  I was just demonstrating that it’s (it’s = separation as a concept, not the inhumane way it was implemented) not wholly inconsistent with how we treat domestic criminals.

My personal view is that we imprison people way too much as it is

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5316 on: November 06, 2020, 07:51:41 AM »
@sherr show me the opinion poll where republicans support the permanent removal of children from their mothers.

Your confusing a shitty administration doing a shitty job/ evil act (depending on how willing you are to give the benefit of the doubt) with mainstream Republican opinion.  I’m pretty sure if the Republican base was super enthused the practice would not have ended years ago.



Almost 70M people voted for Trump.  Enough with the fucking bullshit, you can't continue to claim you don't support these evil shitty policies as you're actively voting for them.  Trump is a fucking monster, and anyone that supports him is a fucking monster.

Hold on there turbo.  First, watch your pronouns.  I voted for Jorgensen, so now “you” and “you’re” there.

Second, if you really believe that 70 million Americans are evil monsters, I have an Office of War Information poster for you...

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5317 on: November 06, 2020, 07:52:51 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?

The vast majority of these cases are asylum seekers, doing things the way prescribed by law. Some others have committed the civil offense of unauthorized border crossing. Very few have been charged with a crime. That is why the previous policy was to give a court date and release them, giving them a temporary legal status.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5318 on: November 06, 2020, 07:54:41 AM »
@GuitarStv yes, with the caveat that I think removal of children, in and of itself, presumably it is done right (placing with a competent and not overworked foster family) is nothing cruel and unusual.  The way the administration did it is evil, imo

Lol, I am a foster parent and I can tell you first hand that there is zero possible way that the foster system could absorb a sudden and continuous influx of thousands of kids. And you're still missing something very vital: THE CRUELTY WAS THE POINT!

It was INTENTIONAL. They wanted this to act as a deterrent. There's a 2017 interview with John Kelly where he's saying that he's thinking about separating families as a deterrent in order to "keep people off this awful/dangerous network". Not keeping records is not "incompetence", it is intentional. The conditionals in the detention centers are not "incompetence", they are intentional. Unnecessarily tearing families apart solely to use the suffering of their children as a deterrent to others is cruel and unusual.

You don’t happen to be a Washington state Jehovah’s Witness, do you?  Perhaps you took care for me for a spell.

Again, I am not advocating for that at all.  I’m simply saying if you start with the premise these parents committed a crime, child separation is not a crazy leap to make.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5319 on: November 06, 2020, 07:58:38 AM »
@GuitarStv yes, with the caveat that I think removal of children, in and of itself, presumably it is done right (placing with a competent and not overworked foster family) is nothing cruel and unusual.  The way the administration did it is evil, imo

Lol, I am a foster parent and I can tell you first hand that there is zero possible way that the foster system could absorb a sudden and continuous influx of thousands of kids. And you're still missing something very vital: THE CRUELTY WAS THE POINT!

It was INTENTIONAL. They wanted this to act as a deterrent. There's a 2017 interview with John Kelly where he's saying that he's thinking about separating families as a deterrent in order to "keep people off this awful/dangerous network". Not keeping records is not "incompetence", it is intentional. The conditionals in the detention centers are not "incompetence", they are intentional. Unnecessarily tearing families apart solely to use the suffering of their children as a deterrent to others is cruel and unusual.

You don’t happen to be a Washington state Jehovah’s Witness, do you?  Perhaps you took care for me for a spell.

Again, I am not advocating for that at all.  I’m simply saying if you start with the premise these parents committed a crime, child separation is not a crazy leap to make.

Except they committed a civil offense, not a crime...

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5320 on: November 06, 2020, 07:58:51 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?

The vast majority of these cases are asylum seekers, doing things the way prescribed by law. Some others have committed the civil offense of unauthorized border crossing. Very few have been charged with a crime. That is why the previous policy was to give a court date and release them, giving them a temporary legal status.

Separating children from asylum seekers who show up legally at the border?  That is something I did not know.   

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5321 on: November 06, 2020, 08:00:43 AM »
@ixtap i think the poster above was right, it’s a misdemeanor crime, not a civil offense

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5322 on: November 06, 2020, 08:01:26 AM »
I don’t have an issue per se with prison nurseries and I certainly don’t advocate separating children of any age from their parents when the sole crime committed is an illegal border crossing.  I was just demonstrating that it’s (it’s = separation as a concept, not the inhumane way it was implemented) not wholly inconsistent with how we treat domestic criminals.

My personal view is that we imprison people way too much as it is

You have now backpedaled so far that your point is unintelligible. So you don't support the (intentional) cruelty of the Trump admin separation policy. And you don't support separating children being separated from their parents when the sole crime is misdemeanor boarder crossing.

But you don't think that separating children from their parents when the sole crime being committed is misdemeanor boarder crossing is "cruel and unusual"? And you don't think the 2/3ds of Republicans who said they were supporting the child separation policy were talking about the actual thing that was happening, but instead some alternate-reality version where all of the specifics were different?

Okaaaay...

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5323 on: November 06, 2020, 08:01:48 AM »
Again, I am not advocating for that at all.  I’m simply saying if you start with the premise these parents committed a crime, child separation is not a crazy leap to make.

Trespassing is a crime as well. Not ironically a misdemeanor much like illegal border crossing. I sure hope taking my kids away would be an outlandish and crazy leap for committing a low level crime. We should be a better country than this.   

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5324 on: November 06, 2020, 08:02:28 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?

Seeking asylum is completely lawful.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5325 on: November 06, 2020, 08:02:50 AM »
I don’t have an issue per se with prison nurseries and I certainly don’t advocate separating children of any age from their parents when the sole crime committed is an illegal border crossing.  I was just demonstrating that it’s (it’s = separation as a concept, not the inhumane way it was implemented) not wholly inconsistent with how we treat domestic criminals.

My personal view is that we imprison people way too much as it is

You have now backpedaled so far that your point is unintelligible. So you don't support the (intentional) cruelty of the Trump admin separation policy. And you don't support separating children being separated from their parents when the sole crime is misdemeanor boarder crossing.

But you don't think that separating children from their parents when the sole crime being committed is misdemeanor boarder crossing is "cruel and unusual"? And you don't think the 2/3ds of Republicans who said they were supporting the child separation policy were talking about the actual thing that was happening, but instead some alternate-reality version where all of the specifics were different?

Okaaaay...

Actually that about sums it up!

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5326 on: November 06, 2020, 08:05:52 AM »
@sherr show me the opinion poll where republicans support the permanent removal of children from their mothers.

Your confusing a shitty administration doing a shitty job/ evil act (depending on how willing you are to give the benefit of the doubt) with mainstream Republican opinion.  I’m pretty sure if the Republican base was super enthused the practice would not have ended years ago.



Almost 70M people voted for Trump.  Enough with the fucking bullshit, you can't continue to claim you don't support these evil shitty policies as you're actively voting for them.  Trump is a fucking monster, and anyone that supports him is a fucking monster.

Hold on there turbo.  First, watch your pronouns.  I voted for Jorgensen, so now “you” and “you’re” there.

Second, if you really believe that 70 million Americans are evil monsters, I have an Office of War Information poster for you...

First of all, quite obviously the "you" and "you're" was directed at Trump voters.  Second of all, fuck Trump voters.  I'm sick of pretending this is a normal reasonable disagreement where we can simply agree to disagree.  Trump is a fucking monster and is absolutely indefensible. 


Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5327 on: November 06, 2020, 08:09:14 AM »
“As you may know, some families seeking asylum from their home country cross the U.S. border illegally and then request asylum. In an attempt to discourage this, the Trump administration has been prosecuting the parents immediately, which means separating parents from their children. Do you support or oppose this policy?”

This is how one of the questions was phrased.  Maybe I am naive, but I assume people are answering the question asked, and I am not assuming they just watched a 60 Minutes special on the subject.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5328 on: November 06, 2020, 08:14:14 AM »
I don’t have an issue per se with prison nurseries and I certainly don’t advocate separating children of any age from their parents when the sole crime committed is an illegal border crossing.  I was just demonstrating that it’s (it’s = separation as a concept, not the inhumane way it was implemented) not wholly inconsistent with how we treat domestic criminals.

My personal view is that we imprison people way too much as it is

You have now backpedaled so far that your point is unintelligible. So you don't support the (intentional) cruelty of the Trump admin separation policy. And you don't support separating children being separated from their parents when the sole crime is misdemeanor boarder crossing.

But you don't think that separating children from their parents when the sole crime being committed is misdemeanor boarder crossing is "cruel and unusual"? And you don't think the 2/3ds of Republicans who said they were supporting the child separation policy were talking about the actual thing that was happening, but instead some alternate-reality version where all of the specifics were different?

Okaaaay...

I'm also a little confused.

We were talking about child separation at the border.  This was happening with infants, without record keeping, and for a misdemeanor.  That's what 2/3rds of Republicans indicated support for.

Are you agreeing that 2/3rds of Republicans are supporting a bad policy that you don't believe is fair?

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5329 on: November 06, 2020, 08:21:45 AM »
Aside from “backpedaling” and “unintelligible” I think @sherr summed up my position nicely.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5330 on: November 06, 2020, 08:27:44 AM »
Aside from “backpedaling” and “unintelligible” I think @sherr summed up my position nicely.

Would you agree that Trump's separation policy (that 2/3rds of Republican support) is significantly worse than just putting kids in cages?

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5331 on: November 06, 2020, 08:44:42 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5332 on: November 06, 2020, 08:54:31 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

Yet another indefensible position.  Brussel sprouts can be amazing.  Having them for lunch today.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5333 on: November 06, 2020, 08:57:56 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

Yet another indefensible position.  Brussel sprouts can be amazing.  Having them for lunch today.

I’m normally not a violent person, but I am this close to starting a civil war!

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5334 on: November 06, 2020, 09:00:07 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

Yet another indefensible position.  Brussel sprouts can be amazing.  Having them for lunch today.

I had brussel sprouts and beets for dinner last night.

Cut the brussel sprouts in half, coat in butter, sprinkle with black pepper, salt, and fresh parmesan cheese and bake at about 400 for 20-30 minutes.

Cube the beets about a half inch, then toss with balsamic vinegar, olive oil, salt, pepper, a little drizzle of honey, and rosemary.  Roast at 425 for about 40 minutes (until they get crispy).

Both recipes make pretty tasty stuff.

:P

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5335 on: November 06, 2020, 09:00:34 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

Yet another indefensible position.  Brussel sprouts can be amazing.  Having them for lunch today.

I had brussel sprouts and beets for dinner last night.

Cut the brussel sprouts in half, coat in butter, sprinkle with black pepper, salt, and fresh parmesan cheese and bake at about 400 for 20-30 minutes.

Cube the beets about a half inch, then toss with balsamic vinegar, olive oil, salt, pepper, a little drizzle of honey, and rosemary.  Roast at 425 for about 40 minutes (until they get crispy).

Both recipes make pretty tasty stuff.

:P

Now I want brussel sprouts and beets!

Samuel

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5336 on: November 06, 2020, 09:07:19 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

Fake news.

Master of None

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5337 on: November 06, 2020, 09:08:00 AM »
I did some checking, and apparently John Adams--our great and revered founding father--did not attend the inauguration of his rival successor Thomas Jefferson.

Maybe we need to be a little more discerning about our republican values?

Will we also get a set of letters that Biden and Trump will write each other on their death beds talking fondly of each other's accomplishments?

Interesting you bring that up, I'm actually working on a letter to my children (Kinder and 3rd grade) explaining my Biden vote because the issues that motivate seem...not age appropriate for them now. Part of what motivates me is the thought that they might study history years from now and wonder why all their family (apart from me it seems) voted for this man, so I want to leave a record behind.

This is one hell of a difficult balance to walk.

I live in a liberal bubble. My DD (12yo) possibly hears many things from school and asks very inquisitive questions that I struggle to find good answers for.

Last week, when pumpkin curving, she quipped - "This is our Trumpkin, orange and round and should be thrown away in November!".

The week before, we went grocery shopping and there were a few trump nuts gathered outside in a public square and making speeches! She asked me very seriously - "Dad, do these people support putting kids in cages"? I mumbled something about "different opinions" and such that sounded half a**ed even to my own ears.

If you are up to it, please share any tips on how you plan to discuss this with the kids. It is bloody difficult to discuss this topic without painting half of the country as evil!

ctuser this hits home. My 8 year old has been saying the most insane things this election cycle. We live in a Midwest Red state, Kansas. Historically I would say I was Republican. Trump and his merry band has pushed me further and further away. Example of things my son would say, "Barbara Bollier is bad for Kansas" and "she wants to take our guns like in Australia". I was floored...we don't have cable and rarely watch antenna TV. YouTube was the culprit. He must have heard that negative ad hundreds of times over the course of that last few months. Now, I don't agree with Dr. Bollier's policies and I understand the nature of political ads, but he doesn't. I tried explaining that some people care so much about winning that they will do everything in their power to win. That includes lying and manipulating the truth. I'm trying to teach him that there are always two sides to every story and he shouldn't pass judgement based on one side of the story. I just hope that over the next 10 years I can help him learn to thing for himself and remain open to differing opinions by the time he is voting.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5338 on: November 06, 2020, 09:20:42 AM »
I'm trying to teach him that there are always two sides to every story and he shouldn't pass judgement based on one side of the story. I just hope that over the next 10 years I can help him learn to thing for himself and remain open to differing opinions by the time he is voting.

My kids are younger so I haven't hit this particular problem yet, but look up some info on how to teach critical thinking and be very intentional about it (also finances). Those are not a skills that they will learn from school, at least pre-college level. And many people never learn.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5339 on: November 06, 2020, 09:23:59 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

Yet another indefensible position.  Brussel sprouts can be amazing.  Having them for lunch today.

I had brussel sprouts and beets for dinner last night.

Cut the brussel sprouts in half, coat in butter, sprinkle with black pepper, salt, and fresh parmesan cheese and bake at about 400 for 20-30 minutes.

Cube the beets about a half inch, then toss with balsamic vinegar, olive oil, salt, pepper, a little drizzle of honey, and rosemary.  Roast at 425 for about 40 minutes (until they get crispy).

Both recipes make pretty tasty stuff.

:P

We cut the brussels in half, steamed them, then fried them in a pan with butter, salt, pepper, and bacon.   

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5340 on: November 06, 2020, 09:27:00 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

Yet another indefensible position.  Brussel sprouts can be amazing.  Having them for lunch today.

I had brussel sprouts and beets for dinner last night.

Cut the brussel sprouts in half, coat in butter, sprinkle with black pepper, salt, and fresh parmesan cheese and bake at about 400 for 20-30 minutes.

Cube the beets about a half inch, then toss with balsamic vinegar, olive oil, salt, pepper, a little drizzle of honey, and rosemary.  Roast at 425 for about 40 minutes (until they get crispy).

Both recipes make pretty tasty stuff.

:P

We cut the brussels in half, steamed them, then fried them in a pan with butter, salt, pepper, and bacon.

Definitely one of our favorite sides. Or you can slice them thinly and saute them fully in the butter/bacon fat.

My favorite beet dish involves cutting the beets into bite-sized chunks, roasting them with olive oil/salt/pepper, and mixing the warm beets with orange-balsamic vinaigrette (add some juice and zest to standard balsamic vinagrette), chopped pecans or walnuts, and soft goat cheese.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5341 on: November 06, 2020, 09:32:08 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

Yet another indefensible position.  Brussel sprouts can be amazing.  Having them for lunch today.

I had brussel sprouts and beets for dinner last night.

Cut the brussel sprouts in half, coat in butter, sprinkle with black pepper, salt, and fresh parmesan cheese and bake at about 400 for 20-30 minutes.

Cube the beets about a half inch, then toss with balsamic vinegar, olive oil, salt, pepper, a little drizzle of honey, and rosemary.  Roast at 425 for about 40 minutes (until they get crispy).

Both recipes make pretty tasty stuff.

:P

We cut the brussels in half, steamed them, then fried them in a pan with butter, salt, pepper, and bacon.

Definitely one of our favorite sides. Or you can slice them thinly and saute them fully in the butter/bacon fat.

My favorite beet dish involves cutting the beets into bite-sized chunks, roasting them with olive oil/salt/pepper, and mixing the warm beets with orange-balsamic vinaigrette (add some juice and zest to standard balsamic vinagrette), chopped pecans or walnuts, and soft goat cheese.

Mmmmmm... that beet dish sounds delicious. I love both beets and Brussels sprouts.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5342 on: November 06, 2020, 10:13:11 AM »
I like brussel sprouts (now that I know how to cook them properly) but beets are too sweet for a vegetable, so I guess I'm a split ticket.

And yes the point is not that children are in cages, but that Trump changed the policy so it was ROUTINE that children even babies were separated from their parents at the border. Previously Obama administration did separate children from parents but it wasn't routine policy, was done in case of suspicion of trafficking or other situations where the child was considered at risk.

When the Trump policy of separation was discussed (Stephen Miller was an architect of it), it was framed as a being deterrent (essentially something so horrible, it would be heard about and deter both legal and illegal immigration to the border. As many others have stated, the lines to register legally are often so long, that it is essentially made impossible to legal file for amesty and legal immigrant status and these separations occurred both at illega spots on the border AND legal immigration stations.  https://www.splcenter.org/news/2020/06/17/family-separation-under-trump-administration-timeline

Because the best person to protect a child is its own parents, in cases of resettlement and refugees, the separation of children from their families is considered a UN human rights violation.
 
“The policy of some governments to separate children from their parents solely based on their immigration status and as a deterrent to irregular migration is both shocking and violates the human rights of the children with long-lasting effects on the health of the child,” stated the Chair of the Committee on the Rights of the Child (CRC) Ms. Renate Winter.  https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=23764&LangID=E
 
a timeline of Trump changing the policy at the border
https://www.splcenter.org/news/2020/06/17/family-separation-under-trump-administration-timeline
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 10:22:27 AM by partgypsy »

wenchsenior

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5343 on: November 06, 2020, 10:37:16 AM »
That’s like asking if Brussels sprouts are worse than beets.  They’re both objectively bad.

I find a lot your posts to be subjectively rather crazy, but this has to be the craziest.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5344 on: November 06, 2020, 11:23:40 AM »
Question: does an illegal border crossing constitute a crime, per the us penal code?

Follow up question: what normally happens to children when their parents are jailed and charged with a crime?
Apart from the unconscionable cruelty of separating these children, I don't often see people pointing out the sheer stupidity of it.  Those separated children whose parents cannot be found are now, de facto, permanent immigrants to the USA, precisely the opposite effect of what the Trump administration said it wanted.
And the very worst sort - the most expensive and the most likely to be criminal.

Quote
Second, if you really believe that 70 million Americans are evil monsters, I have an Office of War Information poster for you...
That's true. Some are careless, some are clueless, some have priorities that seem strange to to other people.
Really evil people are only about 2030% of the Republican voters.

Quote
I’m simply saying if you start with the premise these parents committed a crime, child separation is not a crazy leap to make.
Well, it is.
In "Socialist" states.

I had to look up Brussel sprouts and was shocked. Really? REALLY?
If you eat them the US has undoubtedly found it's end!!! shuddering so bad the neighbor hears it


Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5346 on: November 06, 2020, 05:30:07 PM »
You're all arguing that beets and brussel sprouts are delicious if you absolutely smother them in other foods and spices. How are they without all that stuff?

NotJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5347 on: November 06, 2020, 06:24:48 PM »
You're all arguing that beets and brussel sprouts are delicious if you absolutely smother them in other foods and spices. How are they without all that stuff?

I think both are great roasted with just a little olive oil, salt, and pepper.  Is that too much “stuff” for you?  I also like both raw in salads.  Home-pickled beets ... yum. 



I need to add beets to my shopping list for next week.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5348 on: November 06, 2020, 06:53:35 PM »
You're all arguing that beets and brussel sprouts are delicious if you absolutely smother them in other foods and spices. How are they without all that stuff?

No, I love both with a minimum of dressing.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #5349 on: November 06, 2020, 07:22:08 PM »
Mmm, cold sliced beets in salad. They're also good roasted with only olive oil, salt, and pepper. So are Brussels sprouts.

I just like to add bits of goat cheese and something a bit orangey to beets because the flavor combo is amazing. The beets are still very much the main flavor. Ditto for Brussels sprouts sauteed in a bit of bacon fat and topped with a bit of crumbled bacon. The bacon is the accent.