Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 500392 times)

dblaace

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6450 on: January 07, 2021, 07:49:13 AM »
Quote
Interesting perspective. Obviously the UK is very different from the US, as neither the police nor the violent mob would have guns, but police training here would say that they did the right thing. Outnumbered and confronted with a few thousand armed, violent lunatics, better to let them in and out without provoking a firefight. Prevent the members of congress and media from being killed in a shooting match. You can look at the footage later and arrest people, you can pick up the US flags that they threw on the floor, you can repair buildings. For that level of insurrection to end peaceably and with only one death is something to be pleased about, IMO.

The real question is why, when it was obvious that this was a possibility, were no security precautions taken. Presumably Trump appointees were the ones in charge of making those decisions. Maybe there's also some doubt as to whether police officers would actually have followed orders to attack a bunch of overweight, middle-aged white people?

From my trip to London in 2011, the guards I saw at Parliament, Commons and Buckingham Palace were all well armed.

MudPuppy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6451 on: January 07, 2021, 07:53:13 AM »
Interesting, @sherr. Definitely food for thought.

LaineyAZ

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6452 on: January 07, 2021, 07:53:51 AM »
MSN poll:  45% of Republican voters support storming of the Capitol.  So, yep, not everyone was "outraged." 

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6453 on: January 07, 2021, 08:06:34 AM »
An explosive device or two would have changed our conversation today.  Fortunately, none of the nutjobs made that choice.  Hundreds could have been killed and the building could be smoldering this morning. 


The lack of security allowed "anything" to happen. 


None of this can be forgotten.

MudPuppy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6454 on: January 07, 2021, 08:09:38 AM »
There were multiple IEDs found.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6455 on: January 07, 2021, 08:10:08 AM »
An explosive device or two would have changed our conversation today.  Fortunately, none of the nutjobs made that choice.  Hundreds could have been killed and the building could be smoldering this morning. 


The lack of security allowed "anything" to happen. 


None of this can be forgotten.

They had explosive devices, but luckily they didn't go off. They were also caught with a lot of molotov cocktails.

BussoV6

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6456 on: January 07, 2021, 08:13:09 AM »
Quote
Interesting perspective. Obviously the UK is very different from the US, as neither the police nor the violent mob would have guns, but police training here would say that they did the right thing. Outnumbered and confronted with a few thousand armed, violent lunatics, better to let them in and out without provoking a firefight. Prevent the members of congress and media from being killed in a shooting match. You can look at the footage later and arrest people, you can pick up the US flags that they threw on the floor, you can repair buildings. For that level of insurrection to end peaceably and with only one death is something to be pleased about, IMO.

The real question is why, when it was obvious that this was a possibility, were no security precautions taken. Presumably Trump appointees were the ones in charge of making those decisions. Maybe there's also some doubt as to whether police officers would actually have followed orders to attack a bunch of overweight, middle-aged white people?

From my trip to London in 2011, the guards I saw at Parliament, Commons and Buckingham Palace were all well armed.

I'm fairly sure if you tried to storm the UK parliament, you's get shot. They have very tight security.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6457 on: January 07, 2021, 08:21:02 AM »
Quote
Interesting perspective. Obviously the UK is very different from the US, as neither the police nor the violent mob would have guns, but police training here would say that they did the right thing. Outnumbered and confronted with a few thousand armed, violent lunatics, better to let them in and out without provoking a firefight. Prevent the members of congress and media from being killed in a shooting match. You can look at the footage later and arrest people, you can pick up the US flags that they threw on the floor, you can repair buildings. For that level of insurrection to end peaceably and with only one death is something to be pleased about, IMO.

The real question is why, when it was obvious that this was a possibility, were no security precautions taken. Presumably Trump appointees were the ones in charge of making those decisions. Maybe there's also some doubt as to whether police officers would actually have followed orders to attack a bunch of overweight, middle-aged white people?

From my trip to London in 2011, the guards I saw at Parliament, Commons and Buckingham Palace were all well armed.

I'm fairly sure if you tried to storm the UK parliament, you's get shot. They have very tight security.
Yes.  Sadly, I remember more innocent days when polite demonstrators would line up in Parliament Square to protest the issue of the day without needing prior permits.  Nowadays demonstrations all need prior permission, barriers prevent lorry bombs from being driven into the building and random terrorists are shot dead, sometimes but not always before killing one of the police on guard.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6458 on: January 07, 2021, 08:48:25 AM »
Definitely back in the day when the IRA was really active I would bet the UK police would not let a bunch of people storm into a public building.

jeninco

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6459 on: January 07, 2021, 09:02:44 AM »
Quote
Interesting perspective. Obviously the UK is very different from the US, as neither the police nor the violent mob would have guns, but police training here would say that they did the right thing. Outnumbered and confronted with a few thousand armed, violent lunatics, better to let them in and out without provoking a firefight. Prevent the members of congress and media from being killed in a shooting match. You can look at the footage later and arrest people, you can pick up the US flags that they threw on the floor, you can repair buildings. For that level of insurrection to end peaceably and with only one death is something to be pleased about, IMO.

The real question is why, when it was obvious that this was a possibility, were no security precautions taken. Presumably Trump appointees were the ones in charge of making those decisions. Maybe there's also some doubt as to whether police officers would actually have followed orders to attack a bunch of overweight, middle-aged white people?

From my trip to London in 2011, the guards I saw at Parliament, Commons and Buckingham Palace were all well armed.

I'm fairly sure if you tried to storm the UK parliament, you's get shot. They have very tight security.
Yes.  Sadly, I remember more innocent days when polite demonstrators would line up in Parliament Square to protest the issue of the day without needing prior permits.  Nowadays demonstrations all need prior permission, barriers prevent lorry bombs from being driven into the building and random terrorists are shot dead, sometimes but not always before killing one of the police on guard.

I grew up in DC, and as kids we used to be able to explore around inside the capital building, at least when Congress wasn't in session. I distinctly remember checking out some coat closets, although it was a long time ago, and I could be mis-remembering. (Also, I am not young -- this would've been around 40 years ago.)

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6460 on: January 07, 2021, 09:04:47 AM »
Lotta videos of police taking selfies with protestors as they're breaking into the buildings.  Is this going to be like most instances of police misconduct where there's no repercussion for stupid actions?

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6461 on: January 07, 2021, 09:06:32 AM »
Lotta videos of police taking selfies with protestors as they're breaking into the buildings.  Is this going to be like most instances of police misconduct where there's no repercussion for stupid actions?
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/washingtondc/news/fbi-seeking-information-related-to-violent-activity-at-the-us-capitol-building

ETA: I wonder how many people will simply send the FBI DJT's Twitter feed?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 09:15:36 AM by Glenstache »

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6462 on: January 07, 2021, 09:10:58 AM »
In the police's defense, the commander in chief basically told them that the protestors had permission to vandalize the capital.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6463 on: January 07, 2021, 10:00:44 AM »
A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

If the protesters were intent on spilling blood, they didn't seem very well prepared.  This is wild and dangerous speculation.  Also highly discredited by the fact that the protestors killed no one.

But hey, Mr. Minority Report over here has all the answers.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6464 on: January 07, 2021, 10:03:25 AM »
Would have been a scary sight in DC.

Surprised the police didn't shoot all the protestors. For all of the times that police in the states have been trigger happy, they seemed to use admirable restraint today.

Why are you surprised? These rioters were white.

They shot an unarmed woman in the chest.  How much blood do you wish to be spilled in the name of racial equality?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 10:05:03 AM by Montecarlo »

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6465 on: January 07, 2021, 10:04:51 AM »
A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

If the protesters were intent on spilling blood, they didn't seem very well prepared.  This is wild and dangerous speculation.  Also highly discredited by the fact that the protestors killed no one.

But hey, Mr. Minority Report over here has all the answers.

Really? They were breaking down the Chamber doors. They were harping all week about what they were planning.

But, yeah, maybe they wanted to have a quiet chat with the Democrats and "traitorous" Republicans.


iris lily

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6466 on: January 07, 2021, 10:06:05 AM »
In hindsight, after watching the live footage on TV here, the most surprising is problaby how little surprised I was yesterday. Not saying I expected to see some dude sitting in Pelosis' chair in her office or anything like that, but I have over the last years learnt that pretty much anything is possible. Also republican politicians contesting and dragging out the confirmation after all the mayhem happened. That's a whole different league of sad, I mean at least those should in theory be responsible adults.

I admit being quite surprised that they actually got into the building (apparantly) so easily, but the rest I guess is just the culimination of these 4 years of seer madness.

They got in because some cops let them in. There is video of them opening the barriers and letting them through.

Well, that, and the ones who bashed windows in and climbed through that way.

A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

Interesting perspective. Obviously the UK is very different from the US, as neither the police nor the violent mob would have guns, but police training here would say that they did the right thing. Outnumbered and confronted with a few thousand armed, violent lunatics, better to let them in and out without provoking a firefight. Prevent the members of congress and media from being killed in a shooting match. You can look at the footage later and arrest people, you can pick up the US flags that they threw on the floor, you can repair buildings. For that level of insurrection to end peaceably and with only one death is something to be pleased about, IMO.

The real question is why, when it was obvious that this was a possibility, were no security precautions taken. Presumably Trump appointees were the ones in charge of making those decisions. Maybe there's also some doubt as to whether police officers would actually have followed orders to attack a bunch of overweight, middle-aged white people?

The threat was that the building was full of a huge portion of the US Government, including the entire House of Representatives, the entire Senate, and the Vice President. The mob could have captured and held hostage or -- I hate to even imagine it -- murdered members of government. The Secret Service did a fantastic job of protecting people, but the police should never have allowed the mob to get into the building. Too much was at stake. In my opinion, this was a situation where deadly force was absolutely called for.

I'm not sure if there was any violence involved, but if there was any legitimate threat of violence or impending violence to congressmen then deadly force should have been used.

Not shooting them will just embolden the insurrectionists.

Iím confused, do you not understand that someone, one of the protesters apparently, was shot and killed yesterday? Does that fulfill your requirement now that you know?

iris lily

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6467 on: January 07, 2021, 10:09:28 AM »
Would have been a scary sight in DC.

Surprised the police didn't shoot all the protestors. For all of the times that police in the states have been trigger happy, they seemed to use admirable restraint today.

Why are you surprised? These rioters were white.

They shot an unarmed woman in the chest.  How much blood do you wish to be spilled in the name of racial equality?

Ah, thanks, I had not read far enough down into this thread to see that you had posted this.

Itís a pretty big deal when the cops shoot a protester/rioter/coup instigator.  I sure wish we would  take it seriously. Funny that this thread is not taking it seriously.

That is not to say that whoever shot her wasnít justified because I donít know. Facts of that case will come out later.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 10:11:06 AM by iris lily »

cerat0n1a

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6468 on: January 07, 2021, 10:09:48 AM »
A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

If the protesters were intent on spilling blood, they didn't seem very well prepared.  This is wild and dangerous speculation.  Also highly discredited by the fact that the protestors killed no one.

The DC Police chief was talking about pipe bombs, molotov cocktails and a long gun for firing those. I struggle to see an explanation for turning up in Washington with those things that doesn't involve spilling blood.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6469 on: January 07, 2021, 10:10:24 AM »
Really? They were breaking down the Chamber doors. They were harping all week about what they were planning.

But, yeah, maybe they wanted to have a quiet chat with the Democrats and "traitorous" Republicans.
So your evidence for intent to murder legislators includes property destruction and social media posts?  Try again.

Sandi_k

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6470 on: January 07, 2021, 10:13:31 AM »
Would have been a scary sight in DC.

Surprised the police didn't shoot all the protestors. For all of the times that police in the states have been trigger happy, they seemed to use admirable restraint today.

Why are you surprised? These rioters were white.

I'm sure this was the 1st order reason.

The 2nd order reason was probably because the Trumpers were in charge of the police response.

But I think there's a decent chance that it just happened to be the correct strategic response (for non-Trumpers, and therefore non-traitors). So the armed insurrectionists stormed the Capitol and searched the for Congresspeople to murder and waived their confederate flags around and accomplished... nothing. Except showing the entire world exactly WHAT they are, in high definition video. On the other hand if you mow them down you just make martyrs of them to the rest of the cultists.

No, no, no! It was Antifa, disguised as Trumpers. < insert eyeroll here >

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6471 on: January 07, 2021, 10:13:46 AM »
A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

If the protesters were intent on spilling blood, they didn't seem very well prepared.  This is wild and dangerous speculation.  Also highly discredited by the fact that the protestors killed no one.

The DC Police chief was talking about pipe bombs, molotov cocktails and a long gun for firing those. I struggle to see an explanation for turning up in Washington with those things that doesn't involve spilling blood.

And yet those weapons were not used.  Look, I am disgusted by those people in the mob, I am disgusted by Trump.  I spent four deployments on a ballistic missile submarine.  To see democracy defaced like that was beyond horrifying.  But the escalating rhetoric has got to stop.  These people got out of control.  They should be arrested and prosecuted.

The baseless speculation about murdering half of congress is inciteful nonsense.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6472 on: January 07, 2021, 10:14:24 AM »
Would have been a scary sight in DC.

Surprised the police didn't shoot all the protestors. For all of the times that police in the states have been trigger happy, they seemed to use admirable restraint today.

Why are you surprised? These rioters were white.

They shot an unarmed woman in the chest.  How much blood do you wish to be spilled in the name of racial equality?

They shot a terrorist that was actively breaching the capital building. 

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6473 on: January 07, 2021, 10:18:12 AM »
A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

If the protesters were intent on spilling blood, they didn't seem very well prepared.  This is wild and dangerous speculation.  Also highly discredited by the fact that the protestors killed no one.

The DC Police chief was talking about pipe bombs, molotov cocktails and a long gun for firing those. I struggle to see an explanation for turning up in Washington with those things that doesn't involve spilling blood.

And yet those weapons were not used.  Look, I am disgusted by those people in the mob, I am disgusted by Trump.  I spent four deployments on a ballistic missile submarine.  To see democracy defaced like that was beyond horrifying.  But the escalating rhetoric has got to stop.  These people got out of control.  They should be arrested and prosecuted.

The baseless speculation about murdering half of congress is inciteful nonsense.

I'm sure they all just wanted to give Mitch a peck on the cheek and a pat on the back.  Everyone really needs to lay off these domestic terrorists and give them the benefit of the doubt, because maybe they were storming the capital and breaking in for perfectly non-violent and benevolent reasons. 

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6474 on: January 07, 2021, 10:18:54 AM »
Really? They were breaking down the Chamber doors. They were harping all week about what they were planning.

But, yeah, maybe they wanted to have a quiet chat with the Democrats and "traitorous" Republicans.
So your evidence for intent to murder legislators includes property destruction and social media posts?  Try again.

They brought weapons, bombs, Molotov cocktails, and they wrote that they wanted to murder certain politicians. Those politicians were in the Chambers that they tried to enter by force. Police and Secret Service (Pence was in the room) were on the other side with guns drawn. I'm gonna go with "Yes."

« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 10:21:31 AM by bacchi »

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6475 on: January 07, 2021, 10:20:13 AM »
Ah, thanks, I had not read far enough down into this thread to see that you had posted this.

Itís a pretty big deal when the cops shoot a protester/rioter/coup instigator.  I sure wish we would  take it seriously. Funny that this thread is not taking it seriously.

That is not to say that whoever shot her wasnít justified because I donít know. Facts of that case will come out later.

I think you might have confused me with someone else.

Here is a video with a very clear angle of her getting shot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ9oThRuMVs&bpctr=1610041725
I have no idea what the rules of engagement are for the capitol police and if it's considered authorized use of deadly force.  I have my navy training but it's likely only partially applicable

cerat0n1a

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6476 on: January 07, 2021, 10:20:27 AM »
And yet those weapons were not used.

The bomb outside RNC headquarters was not used because the Bomb Squad detonated it. It seems insane to pretend that people planting bombs at political party buildings don't have murderous intent. Do you seriously expect police in charge of guarding your country's most senior officials to say "oh, it was only a small bomb, was only intended to injure people, not kill them"?

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6477 on: January 07, 2021, 10:22:11 AM »
And yet those weapons were not used.

The bomb outside RNC headquarters was not used because the Bomb Squad detonated it. It seems insane to pretend that people planting bombs at political party buildings don't have murderous intent. Do you seriously expect police in charge of guarding your country's most senior officials to say "oh, it was only a small bomb, was only intended to injure people, not kill them"?

So one person plants a bomb and the rest of them are attempted murderers?

You all are LITERALLY using your imagination to come up with this stuff.  Thousands of attempted murderers killed NO ONE.

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6478 on: January 07, 2021, 10:22:38 AM »
What happened to "when the looting starts the shooting starts?"

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6479 on: January 07, 2021, 10:24:11 AM »
They shot a terrorist that was actively breaching the capital building.

You say terrorist, I say vandal and miscreant.  But hey, I'm sure your precogs knew exactly what she was going to do.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6480 on: January 07, 2021, 10:24:23 AM »
IMO all of these protests that cause destruction of public property and threaten the lives of people in the buildings/area should be dealt with a heavy hand.

You don't get to storm the capital, you don't get to burn down a Wendys or occupy city blocks for weeks.

It isn't a republican or democrat thing, it is obeying the law.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6481 on: January 07, 2021, 10:24:42 AM »
What happened to "when the looting starts the shooting starts?"

Just to clarify, you supported Trump when he said that?

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6482 on: January 07, 2021, 10:26:43 AM »
IMO all of these protests that cause destruction of public property and threaten the lives of people in the buildings/area should be dealt with a heavy hand.

You don't get to storm the capital, you don't get to burn down a Wendys or occupy city blocks for weeks.

It isn't a republican or democrat thing, it is obeying the law.

Agreed 1000%

iris lily

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6483 on: January 07, 2021, 10:27:47 AM »
A lot of police officers should be fired over this. If there is ever a situation that calls for shooting people, it's when a mob storms the U.S. Capitol. If the Secret Service hadn't protected the Senators, Representatives, and Vice President Pence, it could have been an absolute bloodbath. A huge portion of the US government was gathered there with a violent mob breaking into the building.

If the protesters were intent on spilling blood, they didn't seem very well prepared.  This is wild and dangerous speculation.  Also highly discredited by the fact that the protestors killed no one.

The DC Police chief was talking about pipe bombs, molotov cocktails and a long gun for firing those. I struggle to see an explanation for turning up in Washington with those things that doesn't involve spilling blood.

And yet those weapons were not used.  Look, I am disgusted by those people in the mob, I am disgusted by Trump.  I spent four deployments on a ballistic missile submarine.  To see democracy defaced like that was beyond horrifying.  But the escalating rhetoric has got to stop.  These people got out of control.  They should be arrested and prosecuted.

The baseless speculation about murdering half of congress is inciteful nonsense.

Yes. Absolutely this.

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6484 on: January 07, 2021, 10:28:25 AM »
And yet those weapons were not used.

The bomb outside RNC headquarters was not used because the Bomb Squad detonated it. It seems insane to pretend that people planting bombs at political party buildings don't have murderous intent. Do you seriously expect police in charge of guarding your country's most senior officials to say "oh, it was only a small bomb, was only intended to injure people, not kill them"?

So one person plants a bomb and the rest of them are attempted murderers?

You all are LITERALLY using your imagination to come up with this stuff.  Thousands of attempted murderers killed NO ONE.

This is, in fact, pretty much the theory behind the felony murder rule.  So your disbelief at the idea is not comforting.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6485 on: January 07, 2021, 10:29:42 AM »
They shot a terrorist that was actively breaching the capital building.

You say terrorist, I say vandal and miscreant.  But hey, I'm sure your precogs knew exactly what she was going to do.

How is that precog? It's just regular cog. She is actively breaching the capital during a full session with a backpack on and was warned to stop.  That in and of itself warrants deadly force. 

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6486 on: January 07, 2021, 10:29:50 AM »
What happened to "when the looting starts the shooting starts?"

Just to clarify, you supported Trump when he said that?

I do think people can use deadly force to protect their property. I don't think the President should encourage vigilantism. I do think that certain areas are more important and so deadly force can be used (e.g. a mob going into the Congress, Whitehouse, any leadership area, military installation, etc.).

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6487 on: January 07, 2021, 10:30:05 AM »
IMO all of these protests that cause destruction of public property and threaten the lives of people in the buildings/area should be dealt with a heavy hand.

You don't get to storm the capital, you don't get to burn down a Wendys or occupy city blocks for weeks.

It isn't a republican or democrat thing, it is obeying the law.

Equating damage to private property with storming the seat of government of our country and, as an ancillary action, destroying some of its property, is extremely disingenuous.  Enough with the both sides-ism.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6488 on: January 07, 2021, 10:30:28 AM »
They shot a terrorist that was actively breaching the capital building.

You say terrorist, I say vandal and miscreant.  But hey, I'm sure your precogs knew exactly what she was going to do.

Keep telling yourself that she was only there to carve her initials into a bench.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6489 on: January 07, 2021, 10:31:47 AM »
What did the capital look like after the terrorists left?

This is what the streets looked like after the Floyd protest terrorists left it:


bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6490 on: January 07, 2021, 10:31:52 AM »
IMO all of these protests that cause destruction of public property and threaten the lives of people in the buildings/area should be dealt with a heavy hand.

You don't get to storm the capital, you don't get to burn down a Wendys or occupy city blocks for weeks.

It isn't a republican or democrat thing, it is obeying the law.

Equating damage to private property with storming the seat of government of our country and, as an ancillary action, destroying some of its property, is extremely disingenuous.  Enough with the both sides-ism.

It's not just storming the seat of government. It was done specifically to stop a Congressional meeting to formally choose the next President. It's an act of insurrection.


bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6491 on: January 07, 2021, 10:32:54 AM »
What did the capital look like after the terrorists left?

This is what the streets looked like after the Floyd protest terrorists left it:

We're discussing yesterday's events at the US Capitol.

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6492 on: January 07, 2021, 10:34:05 AM »
IMO all of these protests that cause destruction of public property and threaten the lives of people in the buildings/area should be dealt with a heavy hand.

You don't get to storm the capital, you don't get to burn down a Wendys or occupy city blocks for weeks.

It isn't a republican or democrat thing, it is obeying the law.

Equating damage to private property with storming the seat of government of our country and, as an ancillary action, destroying some of its property, is extremely disingenuous.  Enough with the both sides-ism.

It's not just storming the seat of government. It was done specifically to stop a Congressional meeting to formally choose the next President. It's an act of insurrection.

Absolutely.  In my attempt to be brief in that statement let me not mislead that I think this was anything but an attempted coup that happened to destroy some property.  Not in any way similar to destroying a Wendy's.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6493 on: January 07, 2021, 10:34:56 AM »
How is that precog? It's just regular cog. She is actively breaching the capital during a full session with a backpack on and was warned to stop.  That in and of itself warrants deadly force.

Hold on, do you know the rules of engagement for the Capitol Police?  I sure as hell don't.  I don't know if it was a good shooting or not.  I made no claims about the shooting.  You say terrorist, but I see no evidence she was going to harm anyone.  (I certainly see evidence she was fucking nuts).

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6494 on: January 07, 2021, 10:37:28 AM »
It was not an attempted coup.  An attempted coup is something like the bay of pigs.  This was in every way similar to the recent BLM protests in that you can incite a mob to do things that a single individual generally would not do on their own.

Mob mentality is a thing.   Trump egged it on.

A coup....lol

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6495 on: January 07, 2021, 10:38:05 AM »
How is that precog? It's just regular cog. She is actively breaching the capital during a full session with a backpack on and was warned to stop.  That in and of itself warrants deadly force.

Hold on, do you know the rules of engagement for the Capitol Police?  I sure as hell don't.  I don't know if it was a good shooting or not.  I made no claims about the shooting.  You say terrorist, but I see no evidence she was going to harm anyone.  (I certainly see evidence she was fucking nuts).

I'm confused, you thought all these people stormed the capitol to what? Have a picnic?

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6496 on: January 07, 2021, 10:38:40 AM »
I mean it's kind of a coup.  They were trying to stop Biden becoming the next president.  But it was pretty keystone cops for a coup.

Montecarlo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6497 on: January 07, 2021, 10:40:33 AM »
How is that precog? It's just regular cog. She is actively breaching the capital during a full session with a backpack on and was warned to stop.  That in and of itself warrants deadly force.

Hold on, do you know the rules of engagement for the Capitol Police?  I sure as hell don't.  I don't know if it was a good shooting or not.  I made no claims about the shooting.  You say terrorist, but I see no evidence she was going to harm anyone.  (I certainly see evidence she was fucking nuts).

I'm confused, you thought all these people stormed the capitol to what? Have a picnic?

I don't know, to do exactly what they did???  Stop the session, destroy property, make fools of themselves, get on TV, express support for Trump, express outrage about the election results.  Those are things they DID.  So, that's what I think they stormed the Capitol to do.  How is that crazy?

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6498 on: January 07, 2021, 10:41:01 AM »
I mean it's kind of a coup.  They were trying to stop Biden becoming the next president.  But it was pretty keystone cops for a coup.

OK, so if people are breaking in to the capitol, harming police and attempting a coup, what should the response be? Just let them have at it? Being stupid is not a defense.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6499 on: January 07, 2021, 10:43:51 AM »
They shot a terrorist that was actively breaching the capital building.

You say terrorist, I say vandal and miscreant.  But hey, I'm sure your precogs knew exactly what she was going to do.
I prefer seditionist in that they: 1) took over federal property, 2) attempted to prevent the lawful certification of the election of the President.

Quote
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

I am glad that there was not more loss of life. That the Capitol police were underprepared and/or supported seems pretty clear in hindsight, especially given the crystal clear messaging of what could be a worst case scenario ("It will be wild." The legions of social media posts about how to get weapons into DC, etc). Trump's response to the rioting was abhorrent, but entirely consistent with years of statements ranging from "very fine people" to "stand by and stand down" and finally to "we love you."

Falling back on whataboutism and false equivalency to the BLM protests of the summer reveals a lot about people and how they view these events. The events of Jan 6 ultimately stand on their own, and no amount of rationalization will make it okay or justifiable, or less than outright attempt to subvert the democratic process central to our nation.