Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681129 times)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4600 on: October 05, 2020, 01:06:40 PM »
The Covid outbreak among the GOP keeps growing...

WH Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany has tested positive, adding to two GOP senators (Lee -UT, Tillis - NC), RNC Chair McDaniel and at least five presidential consultants (Conway, Luna, Christie, Hicks and Stepien)

This makes me concerned for the WH Press corp, who have been listening to her gaslighting WH press briefings indoors for periods much longer than 15 minutes, during which she talks without a mask.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm betting on this outbreak ripping through the press corp over the next 5-7 days.

For sure.  Not that masks are 100% protection but one can hope at least some have been wearing them?  I'd want to sit beside an air vent (in not exhaust).

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4601 on: October 05, 2020, 01:12:47 PM »
The Covid outbreak among the GOP keeps growing...

WH Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany has tested positive, adding to two GOP senators (Lee -UT, Tillis - NC), RNC Chair McDaniel and at least five presidential consultants (Conway, Luna, Christie, Hicks and Stepien)

This makes me concerned for the WH Press corp, who have been listening to her gaslighting WH press briefings indoors for periods much longer than 15 minutes, during which she talks without a mask.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm betting on this outbreak ripping through the press corp over the next 5-7 days.

Also, two of McEnany's aides tested positive. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/05/politics/kayleigh-mcenany-coronavirus-white-house/index.html

But, of course, Trump is headed back to the White House at 6:30pm today.  Maybe to infect anyone left?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4602 on: October 05, 2020, 01:13:16 PM »
The Covid outbreak among the GOP keeps growing...

WH Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany has tested positive, adding to two GOP senators (Lee -UT, Tillis - NC), RNC Chair McDaniel and at least five presidential consultants (Conway, Luna, Christie, Hicks and Stepien)

This makes me concerned for the WH Press corp, who have been listening to her gaslighting WH press briefings indoors for periods much longer than 15 minutes, during which she talks without a mask.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm betting on this outbreak ripping through the press corp over the next 5-7 days.

For sure.  Not that masks are 100% protection but one can hope at least some have been wearing them?  I'd want to sit beside an air vent (in not exhaust).

Frankly I'm a bit shocked that they are still holding in-person press briefings at all after several within the West Wing tested positive. 

The Supreme Court continues to hear cases and deliver verdicts via teleconference.  Why in god's name are they allowing and encouraging reporters to be in close proximity to people within this outbreak??

Chief of Staff Meadows is making the lame argument that "it was only for 2:58 seconds [during the latest briefing]".  Let me ask you this - suppose I had Covid... would you feel comfortable listening to me talk maskless right in front of you even if it were only for a couple of minutes?!  Would anyone here take me up on that offer?

PDXTabs

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4603 on: October 05, 2020, 04:21:37 PM »
Chief of Staff Meadows is making the lame argument that "it was only for 2:58 seconds [during the latest briefing]".  Let me ask you this - suppose I had Covid... would you feel comfortable listening to me talk maskless right in front of you even if it were only for a couple of minutes?!  Would anyone here take me up on that offer?

Everybody knows that unprotected sex is perfectly safe as long as you finish in under three minutes.

rantk81

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4604 on: October 05, 2020, 04:24:56 PM »
Latest outrage. He apparently just tweeted: "Don't be afraid of Covid. Don't let it dominate your life."

Talk about irresponsible...

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4605 on: October 05, 2020, 04:28:01 PM »
Of course it's now a campaign stunt.

Business Insider: Trump campaign attacks Joe Biden for not having COVID-19

Quote
In a Fox News appearance on Monday, Erin Perrine, the Trump campaign's communications director, faulted Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee, for not contracting the coronavirus.

Perrine blamed Biden for not having "those firsthand experiences" of dealing with COVID-19 that President Donald Trump does.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4606 on: October 05, 2020, 04:47:57 PM »
Of course it's now a campaign stunt.

Business Insider: Trump campaign attacks Joe Biden for not having COVID-19

Quote
In a Fox News appearance on Monday, Erin Perrine, the Trump campaign's communications director, faulted Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee, for not contracting the coronavirus.

Perrine blamed Biden for not having "those firsthand experiences" of dealing with COVID-19 that President Donald Trump does.

Well, there are apparently downsides to being sensible, like staying healthy.    /S

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4607 on: October 05, 2020, 05:35:15 PM »
Chief of Staff Meadows is making the lame argument that "it was only for 2:58 seconds [during the latest briefing]".  Let me ask you this - suppose I had Covid... would you feel comfortable listening to me talk maskless right in front of you even if it were only for a couple of minutes?!  Would anyone here take me up on that offer?

Everybody knows that unprotected sex is perfectly safe as long as you finish in under three minutes.

Literally laughed out loud.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4608 on: October 05, 2020, 05:35:47 PM »
Of course it's now a campaign stunt.

Business Insider: Trump campaign attacks Joe Biden for not having COVID-19

Quote
In a Fox News appearance on Monday, Erin Perrine, the Trump campaign's communications director, faulted Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee, for not contracting the coronavirus.

Perrine blamed Biden for not having "those firsthand experiences" of dealing with COVID-19 that President Donald Trump does.

Well, there are apparently downsides to being sensible, like staying healthy.    /S

I guess it's a good thing he got half of his staff sick too, otherwise they couldn't relate.

jim555

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4609 on: October 05, 2020, 06:07:01 PM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 06:08:59 PM by jim555 »

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4610 on: October 05, 2020, 06:33:47 PM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.

Yeah, something is off. If he came down with covid late last week, he's still contagious, yet he's manly ripping his mask off and talking about getting back on the campaign trail.

Maybe he's had it for longer than 4-5 days?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4611 on: October 05, 2020, 06:50:02 PM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.

Yeah, something is off. If he came down with covid late last week, he's still contagious, yet he's manly ripping his mask off and talking about getting back on the campaign trail.

Maybe he's had it for longer than 4-5 days?

I mean, no one actually believes he cares whether he infects anyone else, do they?

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4612 on: October 05, 2020, 06:53:43 PM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.

Yeah, something is off. If he came down with covid late last week, he's still contagious, yet he's manly ripping his mask off and talking about getting back on the campaign trail.

Maybe he's had it for longer than 4-5 days?

I mean, no one actually believes he cares whether he infects anyone else, do they?

I've read a few articles suggesting he was sick when he nominated Barnett at the White House on the 27th. A number of attendees are also sick now.

Edit: He's back in the White House and making a spectacle of it with no mask, still infectious, and still having breathing difficulties. The building itself is emptying with two members of McEnany's staff sick, three Republican Senators (members of the judicial committee), Christie, Conway, and counting.  A couple members of the WH housekeeping staff got sick a few weeks ago and were told to keep quiet.  Giuliani gave a ridiculous interview to Fox News saying Biden just wants to scare people while coughing during the interview. Trump claimed he's feeling his best in 20 years and he might be immune to the virus.   Someone reminded the world on Twitter that Hermann Caine said he felt fine three days after his diagnosis, and was dead a week later.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 05:17:38 AM by Travis »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4613 on: October 06, 2020, 04:09:35 AM »

UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.
I agree that Assange is likely a person I never would like to met on personality grounds.

It is still true that he is illegally threatened and tortured and his life destroyed because he revealed war crimes and other illegal behavior of the US government.

His character has nothing to do with this fact. Don't get fooled by shoot/smear the messenger tactics!

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4614 on: October 06, 2020, 05:03:12 AM »

UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.
I agree that Assange is likely a person I never would like to met on personality grounds.

It is still true that he is illegally threatened and tortured and his life destroyed because he revealed war crimes and other illegal behavior of the US government.

His character has nothing to do with this fact. Don't get fooled by shoot/smear the messenger tactics!

While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions. His actions and motivations weren’t even motivated by legality or morality, but rather to inflict maximum damage on one specific party (the Dems).  The majority of what Assange was peddling had nothing to do with illegal activity at all, but was private conversations released to embarrass multiple parties.

One is a citizen acting out of concern for the law.  The other is a person acting selectively and vindictively to harm others. 
Their actions aren’t comparable.  Their motives are completely different. Their conduct is not the same.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4615 on: October 06, 2020, 05:16:50 AM »

UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.
I agree that Assange is likely a person I never would like to met on personality grounds.

It is still true that he is illegally threatened and tortured and his life destroyed because he revealed war crimes and other illegal behavior of the US government.

His character has nothing to do with this fact. Don't get fooled by shoot/smear the messenger tactics!
I don't understand how Assange has been "tortured".  He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.  It's an insult to people who have suffered involuntary torture to put Assange in the same class.

Feivel2000

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4616 on: October 06, 2020, 06:10:27 AM »
I don't understand how Assange has been "tortured".  He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.  It's an insult to people who have suffered involuntary torture to put Assange in the same class.

You mean it's an insult to people who have suffered torture, e.g. in Abu-Ghuraib? Who's story is only known because WikiLeaks leaked it? One of the reasons why western intelligence tried to frame, arrest, extradite and then prosecute Assange?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 06:44:03 AM by Feivel2000 »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4617 on: October 06, 2020, 06:26:30 AM »
I don't understand how Assange has been "tortured".  He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.  It's an insult to people who have suffered involuntary torture to put Assange in the same class.

You mean it's an insult to people who have suffered torture, e.g. in Abu-Ghuraib? Who's story is only known because WikiLeaks leaked it? One of the reasons why western intelligence tried to frame, arrest, extradite and then prosecute Assange?

The Abu Ghraib incidents were first described by released prisoners as early as the summer of 2003. The Army investigated the initial torture claims in Jan 2004. CBS and Seymore Hersh broke the story worldwide in April 2004. Wikileaks was started in 2006.

Feivel2000

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4618 on: October 06, 2020, 06:42:16 AM »
I don't understand how Assange has been "tortured".  He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.  It's an insult to people who have suffered involuntary torture to put Assange in the same class.

You mean it's an insult to people who have suffered torture, e.g. in Abu-Ghuraib? Who's story is only known because WikiLeaks leaked it? One of the reasons why western intelligence tried to frame, arrest, extradite and then prosecute Assange?

The Abu Ghraib incidents were first described by released prisoners as early as the summer of 2003. The Army investigated the initial torture claims in Jan 2004. CBS and Seymore Hersh broke the story worldwide in April 2004. Wikileaks was started in 2006.

You're right. I only Ctrl-F'ed "Abu-Ghuraib" in the wikileaks wikipedia article. Shame on me.

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4619 on: October 06, 2020, 06:53:10 AM »
So...The Atlantic posted an article recently about a Trump campaign scheme to appoint their own electors in battleground states (Florida, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, & North Carolina) who would go against the popular vote for their state and instead cast votes for Trump. The depths that these people will attempt to go to in order to steal this election know no bounds. The whole goal seems to be to cast as much doubt about the election as possible...cause, you know, all the "rampant fraud" with mail-in votes that may take days to count after November 3rd...so that somehow makes them fraudulent. Then with all the chaos, Trump seems to be hoping the decision gets kicked up to the courts and that his now hand-picked Supreme Court hands him another term. This shit is terrifying

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4620 on: October 06, 2020, 07:17:47 AM »
So...The Atlantic posted an article recently about a Trump campaign scheme to appoint their own electors in battleground states (Florida, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, & North Carolina) who would go against the popular vote for their state and instead cast votes for Trump. The depths that these people will attempt to go to in order to steal this election know no bounds. The whole goal seems to be to cast as much doubt about the election as possible...cause, you know, all the "rampant fraud" with mail-in votes that may take days to count after November 3rd...so that somehow makes them fraudulent. Then with all the chaos, Trump seems to be hoping the decision gets kicked up to the courts and that his now hand-picked Supreme Court hands him another term. This shit is terrifying

Yep. The campaign is also trying to recruit poll watchers to intimidate voters and election workers in these states.

I'm signed up to work as an election worker in Michigan, and our GOP-controlled state supreme court just overturned the governor's state of emergency (including all health restrictions and extended unemployment). The department of health and human services enacted another mask mandate, but this only goes through the end of October. In other words, we'll be like Wisconsin by Thanksgiving.

In summary: we'll be working the polls while faced with a double-whammy of no enforceable mask laws and an infiltration of Trump-supporting poll intimidators. We're not supposed to allow campaign literature or clothing in the polls, but I'm a 5-foot-tall (1.5 m) woman who will be working with (most likely) 4 elderly people. I don't think any of us is going up against an armed, angry, maskless, MAGA-hatted Trump-bot.

Seriously, anyone who still supports Trump and his bullshit is actively working against the best interests of our country.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4621 on: October 06, 2020, 07:20:20 AM »
I'm thinking the whole Trump has COVID-19 thing is a ploy.  I don't trust anything that comes out of this Admin.  Don the Con at it again.

Yeah, something is off. If he came down with covid late last week, he's still contagious, yet he's manly ripping his mask off and talking about getting back on the campaign trail.

Maybe he's had it for longer than 4-5 days?

I mean, no one actually believes he cares whether he infects anyone else, do they?

I've read a few articles suggesting he was sick when he nominated Barnett at the White House on the 27th. A number of attendees are also sick now.

Edit: He's back in the White House and making a spectacle of it with no mask, still infectious, and still having breathing difficulties. The building itself is emptying with two members of McEnany's staff sick, three Republican Senators (members of the judicial committee), Christie, Conway, and counting.  A couple members of the WH housekeeping staff got sick a few weeks ago and were told to keep quiet.  Giuliani gave a ridiculous interview to Fox News saying Biden just wants to scare people while coughing during the interview. Trump claimed he's feeling his best in 20 years and he might be immune to the virus.   Someone reminded the world on Twitter that Hermann Caine said he felt fine three days after his diagnosis, and was dead a week later.

Yeah nothing shows strength like struggling to breath and blatantly exposing others for your own personal agenda. 

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4622 on: October 06, 2020, 07:29:14 AM »
Serious Question: Is Trump still contagious?

From the CDC website: Available data indicate that persons with mild to moderate COVID-19 remain infectious no longer than 10 days after symptom onset. Persons with more severe to critical illness or severe immunocompromise likely remain infectious no longer than 20 days after symptom onset.

Everything I've rad and heard reports that Trump reported "mild symptoms on Thursday.  That was 5 days ago.  So... maybe/probably?  I certainly wouldn't go near someone who tested positive for Covid for at least 10 days.

turketron

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4623 on: October 06, 2020, 07:36:48 AM »
Yep. The campaign is also trying to recruit poll watchers to intimidate voters and election workers in these states.

I'm signed up to work as an election worker in Michigan, and our GOP-controlled state supreme court just overturned the governor's state of emergency (including all health restrictions and extended unemployment). The department of health and human services enacted another mask mandate, but this only goes through the end of October. In other words, we'll be like Wisconsin by Thanksgiving.

In summary: we'll be working the polls while faced with a double-whammy of no enforceable mask laws and an infiltration of Trump-supporting poll intimidators. We're not supposed to allow campaign literature or clothing in the polls, but I'm a 5-foot-tall () woman who will be working with (most likely) 4 elderly people. I don't think any of us is going up against an armed, angry, maskless, MAGA-hatted Trump-bot.

Seriously, anyone who still supports Trump and his bullshit is actively working against the best interests of our country.

Yep, my wife and I are working the polls here in WI. We're planning on self-quarantining for 2 weeks afterwards. At least we're in Madison, where people are taking it a bit more seriously than the rest of the state, and compliance with the mask mandate is pretty much universal. In Madison at least there's been a massive turnout for poll workers to replace the at-risk folks who would normally work them- they typically have ~3000 workers for a general election and have over 6000 this year.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4624 on: October 06, 2020, 07:53:26 AM »
In NY poll watchers are pre-selected by county Dem/Repub chairs.  You can't just show up and declare yourself a poll watcher, that is a fast way to arrest for voter intimidation.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4625 on: October 06, 2020, 08:26:10 AM »
In NY poll watchers are pre-selected by county Dem/Repub chairs.  You can't just show up and declare yourself a poll watcher, that is a fast way to arrest for voter intimidation.

Here in MI, election challengers have to be certified by the parties. Any yahoo off the street can be a poll watcher. The latter group has fewer rights of inspection, but Trump-bots do not seem to understand laws, rules, and regulations so I doubt that will stop them. Even a crowd of MAGA hats outside the building might be enough to intimidate the large number of minority voters in my area.

I sincerely hope that as many people as possible avail themselves of absentee voting. Unfortunately, the MAGA-hats are the ones bleating about how no one should be able to vote absentee and if you aren't willing to show up in person, you shouldn't get to vote. So I expect we'll be bombarded with unmasked, angry voters. Good times.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4626 on: October 06, 2020, 10:11:23 AM »
This photo irritates me.


Why?  There are 10 medical professionals (I'm assuming all doctors) standing around, nine of them doing f-all - all for a photo op?

I get having the lead medical professional give a press report on the status of POTUS (though it was a bit cringewortthy to watch)... but these other blokes are just a political eye-candy.  They serve no purpose here, and I'm certain they could be doing some good treating patients instead.

I'd be irritated as hell if my boss told me I was to stop what I was doing and stand outside at attention and silent for an hour in my whitest white-coat.  It's also kind of an insult to all of us that feel lucky to get 15 dedicated minutes with our one doctor when we are ill.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4627 on: October 06, 2020, 10:42:10 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.

Quote
He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.
Now there is a really complicated story behind this.
However, don't you think he might have hid to not get sentenced to death in the US? (Especially since it seems that the accusations of sexual assault were mostly hot air and very convenient to the US at the time.)


Quote
In NY poll watchers are pre-selected by county Dem/Repub chairs.  You can't just show up and declare yourself a poll watcher, that is a fast way to arrest for voter intimidation.
Um.... do I get this right? A poll watcher is someone who watches that everything goes according to rules, right? Someone that does not do anything in the process of voting itself, right?

Here in Germany it is a right everyone has, and no one has to register before. Because, you know, does the police tell a suspect they are watching him??
If you can't do that in the US than the "democracy" there is even worse than.... wait, I forgot you use voting machines. You don't need a watcher for those things. Watching them does not change anything if they screw up the votes.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4628 on: October 06, 2020, 11:04:35 AM »

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4629 on: October 06, 2020, 11:08:38 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4630 on: October 06, 2020, 11:17:02 AM »

Quote
He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.
Now there is a really complicated story behind this.
However, don't you think he might have hid to not get sentenced to death in the US? (Especially since it seems that the accusations of sexual assault were mostly hot air and very convenient to the US at the time.)
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

One other point of correction: Assange would never have been extradited from either Sweden or the UK to the USA without a guarantee from the USA government that the death penalty would not be imposed.  It's a legal obligation on European countries courtesy of the European Convention on Human Rights that they do not impose the death penalty or extradite anyone to a third country if the death penalty could be imposed.  There was, and is, zero chance of Assange getting a death sentence.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4631 on: October 06, 2020, 11:21:54 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.

Quote
He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.
Now there is a really complicated story behind this.
However, don't you think he might have hid to not get sentenced to death in the US? (Especially since it seems that the accusations of sexual assault were mostly hot air and very convenient to the US at the time.)


Quote
In NY poll watchers are pre-selected by county Dem/Repub chairs.  You can't just show up and declare yourself a poll watcher, that is a fast way to arrest for voter intimidation.
Um.... do I get this right? A poll watcher is someone who watches that everything goes according to rules, right? Someone that does not do anything in the process of voting itself, right?

Here in Germany it is a right everyone has, and no one has to register before. Because, you know, does the police tell a suspect they are watching him??
If you can't do that in the US than the "democracy" there is even worse than.... wait, I forgot you use voting machines. You don't need a watcher for those things. Watching them does not change anything if they screw up the votes.

Germany also has a different culture around firearms.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4632 on: October 06, 2020, 11:35:08 AM »
The constitution dictates when federal elections occur, but the States decide how it is done.

 By law, federal elections are administered and overseen at the State level.  Each state sets up the voting proceedures, including rules for registration, polling locations, verification requirements, absentee voting, whether it is a state holiday etc.  These can (and are) challenged in federal courts but every state is given a lot of leeway as to how it administers the election.  Some use polling machines, though many do not.

Every polling place has Election Clerk (sometimes called an officer, judge or Official) who certifies the votes for that particular polling location.

By design it is an intentionally de-centralized operation.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4633 on: October 06, 2020, 12:50:03 PM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Source: as reported on the extradition trial.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6649320/wikileaks-password-leaked-by-journalists/?fbclid=IwAR3k6znVREnoeLNkpFcrtm2b_V6I5XsFX1K8m4AAH8QJwIWwAGruBm4-rvw

I don't care too much about about Assange's personality but imo it's been pretty obvious that there have been consistent smear tactics deployed for years. For years, the narrative was "he's paranoid, the US is not after him". Now it's clear they plotted to get him out of the Ecuadorian embassy. And that once that they got him out, they (US) are ramping up the charges.

Unfortunately pretty much all European countries have been looking away, as it's essentially a political inconvenience for them.
As they did when the Snowden papers were published.

Anyhow, didn't mean to start a discussion on this in a Trump thread. Just figured I might make a statement when I am already insulting the mighty POTUS in all his glory.

Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4634 on: October 06, 2020, 12:59:52 PM »
Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

It's a legitimate point of public interest because if Trump dies before the election then all hell will break loose. The US is not prepared for this. There is theoretically "what's supposed to happen", but it's full of legal uncertainties. And that's before you even add in the Trumper conspiracy theorists and 3%/Boogaloo/Promise Keeper militia types who will go absolutely bonkers if their candidate dies.

Add to that the fact that we're still dealing with this pandemic, and Trump is now openly telling people not to worry about it because it's no big deal, and you get the detailed scrutiny.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4635 on: October 06, 2020, 01:05:11 PM »
Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

It's a legitimate point of public interest because if Trump dies before the election then all hell will break loose. The US is not prepared for this. There is theoretically "what's supposed to happen", but it's full of legal uncertainties. And that's before you even add in the Trumper conspiracy theorists and 3%/Boogaloo/Promise Keeper militia types who will go absolutely bonkers if their candidate dies.

Add to that the fact that we're still dealing with this pandemic, and Trump is now openly telling people not to worry about it because it's no big deal, and you get the detailed scrutiny.

Exactly this. In any previous administrations going back decades, if the president had died before the election, it would be definitely a situation of upheaval, but we would have the legal roadmap in place to guide us, and not the years-long misinformation campaigns of Trump, his backers, and right-wing media (plus successful Russian interference, etc.) to throw things into confusion.

No matter whether you like Trump or loathe him, any thinking person would have to have taken leave of his/her senses to wish for his death from Covid any time between now and inauguration day. It would be a disaster for our country.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4636 on: October 06, 2020, 01:07:04 PM »
Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

It's a legitimate point of public interest because if Trump dies before the election then all hell will break loose. The US is not prepared for this. There is theoretically "what's supposed to happen", but it's full of legal uncertainties. And that's before you even add in the Trumper conspiracy theorists and 3%/Boogaloo/Promise Keeper militia types who will go absolutely bonkers if their candidate dies.

Add to that the fact that we're still dealing with this pandemic, and Trump is now openly telling people not to worry about it because it's no big deal, and you get the detailed scrutiny.

Plus, this is a White House that lies about everything, and everyone is trying to figure out if Trump and others in his orbit are still contagious, since he refuses to wear a mask and is threatening to attend campaign events in person, and who knows when he was actually first infected?  And now the Joint Chiefs of Staff are quarantining too.  It's just a huge mess compounded by lack of inability to trust the administration both to be truthful and to be careful/responsible for containing the spread.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4637 on: October 06, 2020, 01:08:31 PM »
And that's before you even add in the Trumper conspiracy theorists and 3%/Boogaloo/Promise Keeper militia types who will go absolutely bonkers if their candidate dies.

There was one alt-right/Q faction who thought Trump was at Reed for protection because he was about to announce the Storm. Another faction thought he was given covid intentionally by Chinese covert agents.

Either way, those people are wack.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4638 on: October 06, 2020, 01:17:02 PM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Source: as reported on the extradition trial.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6649320/wikileaks-password-leaked-by-journalists/?fbclid=IwAR3k6znVREnoeLNkpFcrtm2b_V6I5XsFX1K8m4AAH8QJwIWwAGruBm4-rvw

I don't care too much about about Assange's personality but imo it's been pretty obvious that there have been consistent smear tactics deployed for years. For years, the narrative was "he's paranoid, the US is not after him". Now it's clear they plotted to get him out of the Ecuadorian embassy. And that once that they got him out, they (US) are ramping up the charges.

Unfortunately pretty much all European countries have been looking away, as it's essentially a political inconvenience for them.
As they did when the Snowden papers were published.

The above seems like a dodgy legal argument to avoid accountability. The documents were in their possession, and then they were released.

Look, it gets pretty simple.  Assange founded Wikileaks.  From their own website: Wikileaks will accept restricted or sensored material of political, ethical, diplomatic or historical significance.

Certain privacies are sacrosanct in our society.  Doctor-patient; spousal-communication; attorney-client.  They are not limitless (for example, parties cannot conspire to break the law), but they are protected in every democratic society that I know of. Neither Law enforcement nor governments cannot obtain private communications without special legal circumstances (e.g.  a legal warrant), nor record correspondence inside one's home. 

Wikileaks and Assange in particular have repeatedly and very publicly violated people's private conversations.  They actively accept such correspondence and utterly fail to place safeguards on law-abiding citizens.  Worse, Assange has made 'total transparency' his justification.

Much of the defense of Assange (including those above) focuses on his supposed persecution by several nation-states, and ignores his actions entirely. To the credit of wikileaks they have unearthed some awful and illegal actions by various governments.  But this does not excuse their own illegal actions to obtain, archive and release troves of perfectly legitimate (though sometimes socially damning) communications.

tl;dr - the ends cannot justify the means in the eyes of the law.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4639 on: October 06, 2020, 01:32:18 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4640 on: October 06, 2020, 01:33:55 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4641 on: October 06, 2020, 01:34:48 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

It's like he's trying to tank the economy.

SotI

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4642 on: October 06, 2020, 01:36:45 PM »

tl;dr - the ends cannot justify the means in the eyes of the law.
Fair enough. It would be more convincing an argument if this standard was also applied to the US authorities, I guess.

Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

It's a legitimate point of public interest because if Trump dies before the election then all hell will break loose. The US is not prepared for this.
That would indeed be scary if US institutions were not able to peacefully adjust to such a scenario.

Mind you, another week or so should show if he survives. Can't remember the stats but I seem to remember that he's got a > 90% survival rate chance within his age bracket. So the odds are all in his favour.

In the meantime, he will keep trolling the Dems.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4643 on: October 06, 2020, 01:43:21 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This.

Trump does not want to hand the Democrats a win before the election, even if it means delaying desperately needed financial aid.  Desperate and ... well ... just plain crazy to be honest.  No one should vote Republican in this election, this is not the will of the people being carried out.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4644 on: October 06, 2020, 02:13:20 PM »

tl;dr - the ends cannot justify the means in the eyes of the law.
Fair enough. It would be more convincing an argument if this standard was also applied to the US authorities, I guess.
This is where I vehemently disagree, and have said as much above.

Assange's conduct cannot be excused simply because there are other entities who also break laws. That's  textbook example of 'whataboutism!'.  Neither party gets a pass.
What he has done is illegal and (IMO) ethically & socially wrong. 

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4645 on: October 06, 2020, 02:15:55 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This.

Trump does not want to hand the Democrats a win before the election, even if it means delaying desperately needed financial aid.  Desperate and ... well ... just plain crazy to be honest.  No one should vote Republican in this election, this is not the will of the people being carried out.

Also, he just manipulated the stock market (yet again).

Headline: “ U.S. stocks plummet after Trump says he will delay stimulus to after the election ”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/06/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/#link-AN4AJBMF4NGRJHM3MLJLQQJAUQ

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4646 on: October 06, 2020, 02:26:00 PM »
This could get ugly

More than half of US states have extended unemployment insruance to 39 weeks thanks to the CARES act.  Or those who got laid off in March when lockdowns were announced their state uninsurance payments will end in late November. BLS estimates there are still between 8-9 million people in this category.
Federal UI benifits ended in July.  Eviction protections expired last month.

A lot of people have exhausted their savings, gone into debt and are running out of options as we head towards Thanksgiving.

How might Trump's position change should he lose re-election in november?  Will he just let the economy crash and burn to spite Joe Bidden and hand him a falling knife?  I wouldn't put it past him.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4647 on: October 06, 2020, 02:59:56 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 03:02:17 PM by wenchsenior »

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4648 on: October 06, 2020, 03:06:53 PM »
You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?

I mean:
1) I don't understand how most things Trump does would rationally help his long-term strategy.
2) Trump's supporters seem to buy it all anyway.
3) There's a decent chance the GOP keeps the senate even if Biden wins.
4) He's doing exactly the same thing with healthcare. "We're going to have a big beautiful healthcare bill that fixes all the problems with everything and is far cheaper. I'll tell you about it after the election."
5) Even if Dems do retake the senate they won't be able to do anything by themselves until late January, which is an awful long way away if you need COVID relief now.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 03:08:27 PM by sherr »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4649 on: October 06, 2020, 03:10:16 PM »
Trump tanks the economy so he can run on the Make America Great Again campaign instead of the Keep America Great Again. That way he just reuse material from 4 years ago and save some money.