Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681115 times)

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4550 on: October 03, 2020, 12:47:51 PM »
Quote
President Trump’s vital signs on Saturday were concerning as doctors mounted an aggressive effort to treat him and he was not out of danger, a person close to the situation said, even as the coronavirus infected an ever widening swath of the president’s aides and allies.

While doctors maintained during a televised briefing that Mr. Trump was “doing very well” after a night at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, they refused to provide critical details and left open the impression that the president was known to be sick a day earlier than previously reported.

Shortly after the upbeat briefing by the doctors, a person familiar with the president’s health gave a more sober assessment to reporters at Walter Reed on the condition of anonymity. “The president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care,” this person said. “We’re still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”

Two people close to the White House said in separate interviews with The New York Times that the president had trouble breathing on Friday and that his oxygen level dropped, prompting his doctors to give him supplemental oxygen while at the White House and decide to transfer him to Walter Reed where he could be monitored with better equipment and treated more rapidly in case of trouble.

It's hard to know what to believe, even now -
Quote
Moments earlier on Saturday morning, the President's physician, Navy Cmdr. Dr. Sean Conley, had offered an upbeat assessment of the President's condition stating that he was feeling well, that he had been "fever-free" for 24 hours and that his symptoms -- which included an "extremely mild cough," nasal congestion and fatigue -- "are resolving and improving." Conley was evasive about when and if Trump had received supplemental oxygen, saying, "He is not on oxygen."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-walter-reed/index.html
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 01:27:15 PM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4551 on: October 03, 2020, 12:53:50 PM »
And the question of fact vs. alternative fact remains. Seems appropriate, given the last few years.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4552 on: October 03, 2020, 01:13:12 PM »
At least we should have some peace and quiet from all the tweeting the next couple weeks. I'll take that. 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 02:35:39 PM by partgypsy »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4553 on: October 03, 2020, 02:21:52 PM »
Quote
President Trump’s vital signs on Saturday were concerning as doctors mounted an aggressive effort to treat him and he was not out of danger, a person close to the situation said, even as the coronavirus infected an ever widening swath of the president’s aides and allies.

While doctors maintained during a televised briefing that Mr. Trump was “doing very well” after a night at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, they refused to provide critical details and left open the impression that the president was known to be sick a day earlier than previously reported.

Shortly after the upbeat briefing by the doctors, a person familiar with the president’s health gave a more sober assessment to reporters at Walter Reed on the condition of anonymity. “The president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care,” this person said. “We’re still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”

Two people close to the White House said in separate interviews with The New York Times that the president had trouble breathing on Friday and that his oxygen level dropped, prompting his doctors to give him supplemental oxygen while at the White House and decide to transfer him to Walter Reed where he could be monitored with better equipment and treated more rapidly in case of trouble.

It's hard to know what to believe, even now -
Quote
Moments earlier on Saturday morning, the President's physician, Navy Cmdr. Dr. Sean Conley, had offered an upbeat assessment of the President's condition stating that he was feeling well, that he had been "fever-free" for 24 hours and that his symptoms -- which included an "extremely mild cough," nasal congestion and fatigue -- "are resolving and improving." Conley was evasive about when and if Trump had received supplemental oxygen, saying, "He is not on oxygen."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-walter-reed/index.html

Apparently the NY Times' source was Trump's chief of staff, Mark Meadows (article has been updated).

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4554 on: October 03, 2020, 02:47:29 PM »
Quote
President Trump’s vital signs on Saturday were concerning as doctors mounted an aggressive effort to treat him and he was not out of danger, a person close to the situation said, even as the coronavirus infected an ever widening swath of the president’s aides and allies.

While doctors maintained during a televised briefing that Mr. Trump was “doing very well” after a night at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, they refused to provide critical details and left open the impression that the president was known to be sick a day earlier than previously reported.

Shortly after the upbeat briefing by the doctors, a person familiar with the president’s health gave a more sober assessment to reporters at Walter Reed on the condition of anonymity. “The president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care,” this person said. “We’re still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”

Two people close to the White House said in separate interviews with The New York Times that the president had trouble breathing on Friday and that his oxygen level dropped, prompting his doctors to give him supplemental oxygen while at the White House and decide to transfer him to Walter Reed where he could be monitored with better equipment and treated more rapidly in case of trouble.

It's hard to know what to believe, even now -
Quote
Moments earlier on Saturday morning, the President's physician, Navy Cmdr. Dr. Sean Conley, had offered an upbeat assessment of the President's condition stating that he was feeling well, that he had been "fever-free" for 24 hours and that his symptoms -- which included an "extremely mild cough," nasal congestion and fatigue -- "are resolving and improving." Conley was evasive about when and if Trump had received supplemental oxygen, saying, "He is not on oxygen."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-walter-reed/index.html

Things is, regardless of who is president, I would expect public updates to be overly rosy regardless of the reality.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4555 on: October 03, 2020, 03:40:37 PM »
Quote
President Trump’s vital signs on Saturday were concerning as doctors mounted an aggressive effort to treat him and he was not out of danger, a person close to the situation said, even as the coronavirus infected an ever widening swath of the president’s aides and allies.

While doctors maintained during a televised briefing that Mr. Trump was “doing very well” after a night at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, they refused to provide critical details and left open the impression that the president was known to be sick a day earlier than previously reported.

Shortly after the upbeat briefing by the doctors, a person familiar with the president’s health gave a more sober assessment to reporters at Walter Reed on the condition of anonymity. “The president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care,” this person said. “We’re still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”

Two people close to the White House said in separate interviews with The New York Times that the president had trouble breathing on Friday and that his oxygen level dropped, prompting his doctors to give him supplemental oxygen while at the White House and decide to transfer him to Walter Reed where he could be monitored with better equipment and treated more rapidly in case of trouble.

It's hard to know what to believe, even now -
Quote
Moments earlier on Saturday morning, the President's physician, Navy Cmdr. Dr. Sean Conley, had offered an upbeat assessment of the President's condition stating that he was feeling well, that he had been "fever-free" for 24 hours and that his symptoms -- which included an "extremely mild cough," nasal congestion and fatigue -- "are resolving and improving." Conley was evasive about when and if Trump had received supplemental oxygen, saying, "He is not on oxygen."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-walter-reed/index.html

Things is, regardless of who is president, I would expect public updates to be overly rosy regardless of the reality.

Yeah, Boris Johnson was in worse shape than was revealed at the time.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4556 on: October 03, 2020, 03:56:57 PM »
Yeah, Boris Johnson was in worse shape than was revealed at the time.

I could be wrong since I don't live in the UK, but I don't recall anyone lying about Boris Johnson's condition either.  Certainly nothing like, "... feeling well, that he had been "fever-free" for 24 hours and that his symptoms -- which included an "extremely mild cough," nasal congestion and fatigue -- "are resolving and improving." and "He is not on oxygen."

I felt like I knew Johnson was struggling and didn't need more info.  With Trump, I really don't know if he's still struggling or if he is, as has been reported today, up and about...  recovering nicely...

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4557 on: October 03, 2020, 04:29:17 PM »

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4558 on: October 03, 2020, 04:35:30 PM »

jim555

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4559 on: October 03, 2020, 04:48:25 PM »
Why isn't he taking that hydroxychloroquine?  He said it was a cure all.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4560 on: October 03, 2020, 04:53:44 PM »
Same old Donny...What a joke this guy is...

https://nypost.com/2020/10/03/trump-tells-rudy-giuliani-im-going-to-beat-covid-19/

That sounds like a scripted "conversation."

Trudeau did his job quarantined at home.  One would think Trump's suite at Walter Reed would be set up to carry on work. After all, what if he broke his leg badly and was in hospital for weeks, like a friend of  mine was?  Her brain was fine, she was just stuck in bed.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4561 on: October 03, 2020, 06:37:08 PM »
Reporters are now going over last week's timeline with a fine toothed comb trying to figure out when he was exposed and who he then subsequently exposed it to.  There's a good chance he was infected before the debate (where he and Melania showed up late and didn't get tested).  We can probably attribute this latest spread to Hicks, but if she gave it to him it's tough to say when he was actually infected. He got tested the day after her results came back and except for the debate night he seems to be tested almost daily. You don't show up positive the day after exposure though. 

The White House's virus-handling procedures are a joke. They seem to be in line with the rhetoric though (half assed measures).  Hicks was quarantined on board Air Force One which is fucking preposterous.  When my soldiers are quarantined, they're escorted to an isolated building and not allowed out.  Who the fuck decided that a metal tube full of people with shared air for several hours counts as a quarantine?  Everyone on that plane should be working from home right now. 

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4562 on: October 03, 2020, 06:43:07 PM »
Does anyone reckon there's a chance that the lack of news coming out means that Trump might have deteriorated and be near death's door?

Many  people of Trump's age  have died within a few days of  becoming infected so it's not far-fetched to speculate that Trump may have been  near death prior to this morning's  reportage about his condition.

Hmm, the positive reporting about his condition seems to indicate that he is not at death's door. :-/

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4563 on: October 03, 2020, 08:19:33 PM »
Does anyone reckon there's a chance that the lack of news coming out means that Trump might have deteriorated and be near death's door?

Many  people of Trump's age  have died within a few days of  becoming infected so it's not far-fetched to speculate that Trump may have been  near death prior to this morning's  reportage about his condition.

Hmm, the positive reporting about his condition seems to indicate that he is not at death's door. :-/

They are throwing the anti-viral drugs at him.  And ending up oxygen doesn't always happen right away.  Some people get really sick really fast, some people get really sick much more slowly, and some people just don't get really sick.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4564 on: October 04, 2020, 02:36:19 AM »
Does anyone reckon there's a chance that the lack of news coming out means that Trump might have deteriorated and be near death's door?

Many  people of Trump's age  have died within a few days of  becoming infected so it's not far-fetched to speculate that Trump may have been  near death prior to this morning's  reportage about his condition.

Hmm, the positive reporting about his condition seems to indicate that he is not at death's door. :-/

They are throwing the anti-viral drugs at him.  And ending up oxygen doesn't always happen right away.  Some people get really sick really fast, some people get really sick much more slowly, and some people just don't get really sick.
We are very obviously being lied to at some level.  Was he on oxygen at the White House or not?  Sources say yes, his doctor only said "not today", meaning Saturday.  I suspect he may have been given oxygen before going to hospital on Friday so that he could look and sound better in the pre-hospital video and walking to and from the helicopter, as well as being more comfortable/safer on the journey.  But who really knows?

As to how he is now, I suspect that there are a number of obstacles to the truth.  One is the ingrained medical behaviour of not disclosing personal medical details of patients.  Another is that this particular patient will be very forceful about his doctors only disclosing upbeat information. Sources less immediately under Trump's control seem to be giving out information that things are more serious than are his doctors. 

Of what his own doctors did disclose one firm detail was his oxygen sats at 96%, so we do know the virus is affecting his lung function.  They are throwing every possible treatment at him, which might mean there are worrying signs or it might be the "abundance of caution".  Given his age and general health (apparently less good than we have previously been led to believe) they have to be worried about a cardiovascular failure of some sort, which could be one of the reasons for him going to hospital even if he's not bad enough for a normal person in his condition to be hospitalised: they will want to be close to all the best resuscitation treatments just in case.

Perhaps one of the doctors on the boards might weigh in?  @Abe maybe?  Sorry if this is out of order, no obligation implied.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4565 on: October 04, 2020, 06:53:56 AM »
Why isn't he taking that hydroxychloroquine?  He said it was a cure all.

And I hear that Mexico will pay for it!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4566 on: October 04, 2020, 07:02:20 AM »
96% oxygen saturation is fine.  When I had mine last done it wobbled between 96% and 97%.  At 90% it is concerning.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4567 on: October 04, 2020, 08:42:55 AM »
I saw a good comment on one of Stephen Colbert's online posts.  Living in Canada is like living in an apartment where the apartment below you has a meth lab on fire. 

SunnyDays

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4568 on: October 04, 2020, 10:39:30 AM »
@former player, "throwing every possible treatment at him" apparently isn't always a good idea.  A doctor from Johns Hopkins mad a point on The National last night, that bumping up the immune system can actually backfire and cause it's own problems.  So it might be a case of "damned if you do and damned if you don't."

Mariposa

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4569 on: October 04, 2020, 11:17:54 AM »
I'm a doctor, and I saw hundreds of covid patients in an outpatient setting back in April. Just watched the briefing Trump's medical team gave today (Sunday): totally agree that we're being given mixed messages. They have an upbeat tone & emphasize how he's improving, but they also report they're treating him with dexamethasone, which is reserved for patients sick enough to need oxygen support.

The medical team now reports that on Friday, he had a high fever, and an episode where his sat went below 94%, and he was on supplemental oxygen for about an hour. He apparently also had an episode where his sat went down to 93% yesterday (Saturday), and they were evasive about whether or not he received oxygen. If that second desat episode was real (more than a minute or two), of course he got oxygen again. Plus, why start him on dexamethasone, which actually showed a trend toward harm in patients not needing oxygen at time of randomization:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2021436#:~:text=The%20RECOVERY%20trial%20provides%20evidence,who%20did%20not%20require%20oxygen.

Note the CI crosses 1 for that group, so I say trend toward harm.

I do understand it's sort of a soft call, and the tendency of medical professionals is to do something rather than nothing, in case the patient later deteriorates. Still, I believe he probably had two real episodes of de-sating.

Remdesivir is an anti-viral originally designed to treat hepatitis C that has shown a statistically significant, though modest, benefit in days to recovery and a trend toward survival benefit.

The wildcard in my mind is how much the polyclonal antibody cocktail Trump received could benefit. Unlike pre-existing drugs such as dexamethasone, remdesivir, or hydroxychloroquine, this therapeutic was specifically designed to target covid (in the form of neutralizing antibodies), and has the potential to be a game-changer. We only have preliminary data on 275 patients released by the company Regeneron (not peer-reviewed) showing significantly reduced viral loads and faster time to recovery. It's a promising therapeutic with biological plausibility, but at this time the data is still being gathered, so we don't have a clear answer.

Some people have said that Trump looks pale and fatigued in videos. Lots of people with mild-moderate courses are fatigued, and that's not necessarily a warning sign. He's speaking in full sentences, and there's nothing about his appearance that's a red flag to me. What is concerning are the episodes of de-sating. The episode on Friday described by his doctors today did warrant hospitalization, especially in a 74yo man with BMI just over 30.

How are things going to play out in the next few days? I have no idea.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 12:40:53 PM by Mariposa »

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4570 on: October 04, 2020, 12:02:28 PM »
Thanks Mariposa, that's very helpful.  It's just a shame we can't rely on getting accurate information from official sources and have to read the tea leaves instead.

gaja

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4571 on: October 04, 2020, 02:27:58 PM »
My guess is that he tested positive a week or more ago, but they were hoping to hide it. But Friday he got so sick that they couldn't hide it anymore. The interesting thing will be how many republican senators will get sick, and whether any of them will die. Many of them are old enough to be at risk. And if this causes them to lose the appointment to the supreme court; will it be enough to get republican voters upset?

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4572 on: October 04, 2020, 03:10:54 PM »
gaja, I think you are 100% right and it really makes a lot of sense when you think about it. He announces he and Melania have it on Friday at midnight-ish and he is in the hospital Saturday early evening? Not too many people get that sick so quickly after a Covid-19 diagnosis.

rantk81

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4573 on: October 04, 2020, 03:50:05 PM »
gaja, I think you are 100% right and it really makes a lot of sense when you think about it. He announces he and Melania have it on Friday at midnight-ish and he is in the hospital Saturday early evening? Not too many people get that sick so quickly after a Covid-19 diagnosis.

If that's true, that's completely reckless behavior considering he attended numerous fundraising events, and not to mention the DEBATE -- where his entire family made a scene to NOT wear masks!

Abe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4574 on: October 04, 2020, 08:39:03 PM »
Appreciate the shout-out, but I’d be remiss to provide a strong opinion on what is going on with an individual with the very limited information provided on the president’s status. I will raise three general points, though:

1) it is hard to avoid over-treating a “VIP”, but efforts should be made to avoid this. In general, changes to standard practice due to a patient’s perceived importance is usually harmful. Standard practices are generally standardized to maximize efficacy.

2) providing experimental therapies outside of a clinical trial is unethical except under the most dire circumstances. Compassionate use is reserved for people with no other options. This suggests either favoritism towards the president without clear need for the antibodies, or severe illness.

3) patients with severe enough covid to be admitted tend to have unusually rocky courses, even outside of the ICU. It would not be surprising if the president’s clinical status fluctuates wildly, and would explain the mixed messages. I know from first-hand experience that you may be updating the family that the patient is ok at 3pm, and calling them in to say goodbye at 3am. This is true in all critical illness, but covid seems to kick it up a notch.

So, I think he probably is having a standard course of COVId for someone his age and health. It is appropriate for there to be limited information and temper expectations. If he’s not intubated, that’s a good sign. I don’t think any further speculation on his status or prognosis is possible.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 08:46:17 PM by Abe »

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4575 on: October 04, 2020, 08:46:20 PM »
It looks like he's trying to get back to the White House right away and pissed that Meadows was more forthright with information than the doctors briefing.  The docs admit they kept the worst news out of the brief on purpose and there's disagreement whether him going to the hospital was his idea or someone else's.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/04/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-alternate-reality/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2H0TvQc-cwyYHUWsAIGA22IjjoVhZlmsNC4iomYbPL0oStTynQS9hE8co/

gaja, I think you are 100% right and it really makes a lot of sense when you think about it. He announces he and Melania have it on Friday at midnight-ish and he is in the hospital Saturday early evening? Not too many people get that sick so quickly after a Covid-19 diagnosis.

If that's true, that's completely reckless behavior considering he attended numerous fundraising events, and not to mention the DEBATE -- where his entire family made a scene to NOT wear masks!


And thanks to this delay he may have infected dozens.  Folks from the White House staff and Congress are showing up sick and all roads point to last week's various events.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4576 on: October 04, 2020, 10:13:22 PM »
This little stunt today - making the Secret Service guys drive him around the hospital grounds so he could wave at the “patriots” - was too much! Someone needs to tell him no sometime!

From the WaPo this evening:

Quote
Current and former Secret Service agents and medical professionals were aghast Sunday night at President Trump’s Sunday evening trip outside the hospital where he is being treated for the coronavirus, saying the president endangered those inside his SUV for a publicity stunt.

As the backlash grew, multiple aides who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal deliberations also called Trump’s outing to wave at supportive crowds an unnecessary risk — but said the move was not surprising. Trump had said he was bored in the hospital, advisers said. He wanted to show strength after his chief of staff offered a grimmer assessment of his health than doctors, according to campaign and White House officials.

A growing number of Secret Service agents have been concerned about the president’s seeming indifference to the health risks they face when traveling with him in public, and a few reacted with outrage to the trip, asking how Trump’s desire to be seen outside of his hospital suite justified the jeopardy to agents protecting the president. The president’s coronavirus diagnosis has already brought new scrutiny to his lax approach to social distancing, as public health officials scramble to trace those he may have exposed at large in-person events.

“He’s not even pretending to care now,” said one agent after the president’s jaunt outside Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.

“Where are the adults?” said a former Secret Service member.

They spoke on the condition of anonymity out of fear of retribution.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/04/trump-hospital-drive-criticism/

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4577 on: October 05, 2020, 03:33:17 AM »
It looks like he is getting better, which would give him the best of two worls:
1) He could say "See, it is not that bad, even I with all my stress and my age won it after a few days".
2) I am a hero! I was hospitalized and I still won!!

For his publicity stand I actually had to laugh. That is so much an autocrat thing (remember Putin ice bathing?)!
It is a show (mostly to the own side) of "See, I am still healthy, no reasont to pick a successor and start a revolution"
(For more information about that topic read the book in my signature.)

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4578 on: October 05, 2020, 05:24:46 AM »
I personally can’t see this as anything but a net-negative for his re-election campaign.  For months team Trump has tried to talk about anything BUT Covid, and now - five weeks to go - it’s all anyone is focused on.   Three GOP senators plus a handful of high-profile aids in addition to Trump have come down from this event so far.  Even if Trump leaves the hospital today with no further symptoms or ill effects the focus will be on this ‘super-spreader’ event for the first half of October, if not longer.
Meanwhile, people are already voting in droves...

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4579 on: October 05, 2020, 05:27:34 AM »
He also very publicly put his Secret Service detail at significant risk of infection yesterday. That doesn’t seem to be playing out as well as he’d hoped across the country.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4580 on: October 05, 2020, 06:12:13 AM »
I think this is my first post in this long thread.  I find the inconsideration of the other guests of this hotel, especially doctors and families of patients of the Cleveland Clinic, monstrously selfish:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-family-aides-flouted-cleveland-hotel-mask-mandate/story?id=73409582

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4581 on: October 05, 2020, 06:16:55 AM »
I think this is my first post in this long thread.  I find the inconsideration of the other guests of this hotel, especially doctors and families of patients of the Cleveland Clinic, monstrously selfish:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-family-aides-flouted-cleveland-hotel-mask-mandate/story?id=73409582

Yep. It reminds me of when Pence refused to wear a mask at the Mayo Clinic in violation of their rules. I wish these places would enforce their own rules. It’s insane that the Trump administration gets a free pass on all their bullshit. Selfish jackasses.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4582 on: October 05, 2020, 06:58:29 AM »
...especially given their apparently poor record of preventing virus transmission among important people in our government.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4583 on: October 05, 2020, 07:15:23 AM »
I personally can’t see this as anything but a net-negative for his re-election campaign.  For months team Trump has tried to talk about anything BUT Covid, and now - five weeks to go - it’s all anyone is focused on.   Three GOP senators plus a handful of high-profile aids in addition to Trump have come down from this event so far.  Even if Trump leaves the hospital today with no further symptoms or ill effects the focus will be on this ‘super-spreader’ event for the first half of October, if not longer.
Meanwhile, people are already voting in droves...

I doubt anybody that he made sick are going to hold him responsible. To do so now would be political suicide for the party.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4584 on: October 05, 2020, 07:36:02 AM »
I think this is my first post in this long thread.  I find the inconsideration of the other guests of this hotel, especially doctors and families of patients of the Cleveland Clinic, monstrously selfish:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-family-aides-flouted-cleveland-hotel-mask-mandate/story?id=73409582

I agree that this was monstrously selfish on behalf of the Trump family. 
I also believe it was a coordinated move by Family Trump and exactly in line with the GOP campaign strategy, which goes something like this:
  • blame China for the virus ("China Virus!")
  • Downplay its danger and stress we have all but defeated it ("Rounding the corner")
  • Pivot to something else while mocking Biden's mask wearing ("our economy is roaring back" and "Biden's got the largest face mask you've ever seen!")

The Trump family wanted to stir the pot by removing their masks in full view of the cameras.  A wanted to create the impression that the virus is a non-issue so the campaign would focus on anything else.  Of course this gambit wound up backfiring spectacularly in the most predictable way imaginable.  The virus doesn't care about politics and probability damns the ill-protected.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4585 on: October 05, 2020, 07:38:28 AM »
I saw a video clip of that publicity stunt of him driving around in the car and waving. I almost wondered if it was a double. How could anyone be so stupid? But, then we are talking about the Donald, so nothing should surprise me. How anyone thinks he is fit to lead the U.S. is beyond me. What an ass!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4586 on: October 05, 2020, 07:47:51 AM »
Yes, the American Troll-in-chief is doubling down again.
I think ppl who look at him as a normal person make a mistake considering him a politician. He's actually a gambler.

I suppose this statement alone will stop me from ever being let onto US soil.
Ah well, let's make it worth it:
UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Unfortunately, neither will happen.

As to Trump winning any electoral favours with his stunts - I think a lot of his voters vote for him based on his audacity, not on his morals. Will be interesting to see (from overseas) where the election chips will fall.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4587 on: October 05, 2020, 07:53:47 AM »
I saw a source suggesting that the Trump team practice of relying on the Abbott Laboratories rapid test results to screen people coming into a safe, mask-free, zone around the President was an overreach for that particular test.

Essentially, it was a statistical inevitability that there would eventually be a false negative, and it would have this exact result. This is a chain of events that would be predictable to anyone with an understanding of epidemiology.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4588 on: October 05, 2020, 08:16:02 AM »

UK: Free Assange! EU: give asylum to Snowden!

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4589 on: October 05, 2020, 08:17:00 AM »
Appreciate the shout-out, but I’d be remiss to provide a strong opinion on what is going on with an individual with the very limited information provided on the president’s status. I will raise three general points, though:

1) it is hard to avoid over-treating a “VIP”, but efforts should be made to avoid this. In general, changes to standard practice due to a patient’s perceived importance is usually harmful. Standard practices are generally standardized to maximize efficacy.

2) providing experimental therapies outside of a clinical trial is unethical except under the most dire circumstances. Compassionate use is reserved for people with no other options. This suggests either favoritism towards the president without clear need for the antibodies, or severe illness.

3) patients with severe enough covid to be admitted tend to have unusually rocky courses, even outside of the ICU. It would not be surprising if the president’s clinical status fluctuates wildly, and would explain the mixed messages. I know from first-hand experience that you may be updating the family that the patient is ok at 3pm, and calling them in to say goodbye at 3am. This is true in all critical illness, but covid seems to kick it up a notch.

So, I think he probably is having a standard course of COVId for someone his age and health. It is appropriate for there to be limited information and temper expectations. If he’s not intubated, that’s a good sign. I don’t think any further speculation on his status or prognosis is possible.
Thanks.  Overtreating a VIP seems to be right.  I do wonder how come the White House had that experimental antibody treatment on hand for use within hours of diagnosis?  Did they have it on hand just in case?  Was this Trump himself demanding the "latest and best"?  I guess we might find out in time.

It seems to me now that the mixed/inadequate messaging is probably a direct result of Trump interfering in what is being said, wanting complete control over an upbeat message given without factual details is entirely in line with his approach over the least four years.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4590 on: October 05, 2020, 08:21:31 AM »
It's amazing how he sucks the air out of the room, whatever he does.  He's like P.T. Barnum on steroids.  He keeps everyone off balance wondering what's next, and makes people forget about things like the tax returns, damaging tell-all memoirs, etc. etc.

Surely there is an online scorecard somewhere that lists all his controversies that everyone could circulate on social media? Maybe with references?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4591 on: October 05, 2020, 08:27:07 AM »

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4592 on: October 05, 2020, 08:34:42 AM »
It's amazing how he sucks the air out of the room, whatever he does.  He's like P.T. Barnum on steroids.  He keeps everyone off balance wondering what's next, and makes people forget about things like the tax returns, damaging tell-all memoirs, etc. etc.

Surely there is an online scorecard somewhere that lists all his controversies that everyone could circulate on social media? Maybe with references?

I kinda want a comedian to do a sketch that summarizes every scandal and controversy that Trump has instigated chronologically... possibly to music.  This is right up SNL's alley.  Given that he's (by my estimation) averaged roughly one scandal per week that's 200+ scandals since he became Candidate Trump. 
Kinda like Billy Joel's 'We Didn't Start the Fire'...but instead of covering three decades of national politics it'd be three years of Trump.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4593 on: October 05, 2020, 08:41:22 AM »
Perfect.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4594 on: October 05, 2020, 09:46:19 AM »

Edward Snowden is a patriot, and history will vindicate him as someone who risked a great deal and followed the appropriate pathway to bring attention to illegal activity within the government.

Julian Assange is a political, narcissistic nutjob who's motives and methods (not to mention his own moral character) are circumspect at both and more likely corrupt from the get-go.

It's a damn shame that most Americans conflate Wikileaks/Assange with Snowden.
Agreed, and well said.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4595 on: October 05, 2020, 09:58:54 AM »
It looks like he is getting better, which would give him the best of two worls:
1) He could say "See, it is not that bad, even I with all my stress and my age won it after a few days".
2) I am a hero! I was hospitalized and I still won!!

For his publicity stand I actually had to laugh. That is so much an autocrat thing (remember Putin ice bathing?)!
It is a show (mostly to the own side) of "See, I am still healthy, no reasont to pick a successor and start a revolution"
(For more information about that topic read the book in my signature.)

It’s not at all clear he’s actually getting better. If they're really giving him a huge dose of steroids that could be giving him a burst of energy.

Isn’t a common course of this illness a mild beginning with symptoms abating and then a return of it much worse the second week? So irresponsible if they let him out to infect even more people - because no way in hell is he going to be considerate of anyone else on his own.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4596 on: October 05, 2020, 10:26:33 AM »
I saw a video clip of that publicity stunt of him driving around in the car and waving. I almost wondered if it was a double. How could anyone be so stupid? But, then we are talking about the Donald, so nothing should surprise me. How anyone thinks he is fit to lead the U.S. is beyond me. What an ass!

It's clear that Secret Service lives are expendable to this president.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4597 on: October 05, 2020, 12:09:48 PM »
I saw a video clip of that publicity stunt of him driving around in the car and waving. I almost wondered if it was a double. How could anyone be so stupid? But, then we are talking about the Donald, so nothing should surprise me. How anyone thinks he is fit to lead the U.S. is beyond me. What an ass!

It's clear that Secret Service lives are expendable to this president.

If you are a narcissist (and odds are that he is one) other people only matter in terms of what they can do for you.  I doubt he sees them as more than interchangeable safety appliances.  And really only for show, because he is The Greatest and doesn't need protection.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4598 on: October 05, 2020, 12:19:11 PM »
Then by all means send Trump out to walk the streets of America alone. Hopefully he will walk through some poorer white and minority neighborhoods along the way. Perhaps he might gain a little insight into people's lives?

Nah. The guy is unable to comprehend a different POV.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4599 on: October 05, 2020, 01:04:04 PM »
The Covid outbreak among the GOP keeps growing...

WH Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany has tested positive, adding to two GOP senators (Lee -UT, Tillis - NC), RNC Chair McDaniel and at least five presidential consultants (Conway, Luna, Christie, Hicks and Stepien)

This makes me concerned for the WH Press corp, who have been listening to her gaslighting WH press briefings indoors for periods much longer than 15 minutes, during which she talks without a mask.  Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm betting on this outbreak ripping through the press corp over the next 5-7 days.