Trump outrage of the day

[meghan88]

I haven't looked closely at the latest posts, but no one mentioned clemency for Roger Stone?  Isn't this the very definition of a Constitutional Crisis - The Executive Branch has bypassed the Legislative Branch (Congress being lied to on several counts of an investigation in to the Executive Branch, an individual that helped get the President elected) and Judicial Branch (individual then convicted of felonies but granted clemency by the Executive Branch, the President that was elected, in part, by said illegal behavior).

WTF is going on in this country?

It's only illegal if your party is willing to throw you under the bus.

EV202 - it was mentioned earlier in the thread on the previous page, but didn't attract much outrage, which I find surprising.  Cohen serves time because he sang; Stone kept quiet and gets a hall pass.  So much for the Rule of Law.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I haven't looked closely at the latest posts, but no one mentioned clemency for Roger Stone?  Isn't this the very definition of a Constitutional Crisis - The Executive Branch has bypassed the Legislative Branch (Congress being lied to on several counts of an investigation in to the Executive Branch, an individual that helped get the President elected) and Judicial Branch (individual then convicted of felonies but granted clemency by the Executive Branch, the President that was elected, in part, by said illegal behavior).

WTF is going on in this country?

It's only illegal if your party is willing to throw you under the bus.

EV202 - it was mentioned earlier in the thread on the previous page, but didn't attract much outrage, which I find surprising.  Cohen serves time because he sang; Stone kept quiet and gets a hall pass.  So much for the Rule of Law.

This should be a 'President must obey the law' moment - what all this has seemingly been leading up to.  If the Republicans in power and their supporters let this slide, it's a Nixon moment x10.

[MDM]

EV202 - it was mentioned earlier in the thread on the previous page, but didn't attract much outrage, which I find surprising.  Cohen serves time because he sang; Stone kept quiet and gets a hall pass.  So much for the Rule of Law.

This should be a 'President must obey the law' moment - what all this has seemingly been leading up to.  If the Republicans in power and their supporters let this slide, it's a Nixon moment x10.

One can debate the advisability, but Trump is following the same law that Clinton, Bush, Ford, Nixon, Roosevelt, et al. have followed.  See Why this Roger Stone commutation is not as controversial as some think for more.

[scottish]

Yeah, I noticed that Fox News had a similar analysis.   (Once in a while I look at Fox news to try and understand the other side.)   US presidents of both colours (red and blue!) have a long history of conflict of interest in issuing pardons.

[ctuser1]

Marc Rich pardon by Clinton was iffy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

That dude was the epitome of a shady businessmen. He was a champion of working with dictators and despots and shady regimes of all variety. He was also widely suspected/known to have engaged in money laundering activities in the past.

What's curious about the Trump pardon is that he did not do this in the lame duck session. He is doing it *now* as a way to control the news cycle by creating a distraction. So, as bad as the sneaky "I can get away with this" Clinton pardon of Mark Rich was, this seems like a much more frontal assault on democratic norms (even the "shady" norms). 

[Norioch]

The White House is now trying to discredit Dr. Fauci, possibly as a prelude to firing him.

https://twitter.com/jamiedupree/status/1282387141251784707?s=20

[Travis]

Marc Rich pardon by Clinton was iffy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

That dude was the epitome of a shady businessmen. He was a champion of working with dictators and despots and shady regimes of all variety. He was also widely suspected/known to have engaged in money laundering activities in the past.

What's curious about the Trump pardon is that he did not do this in the lame duck session. He is doing it *now* as a way to control the news cycle by creating a distraction. So, as bad as the sneaky "I can get away with this" Clinton pardon of Mark Rich was, this seems like a much more frontal assault on democratic norms (even the "shady" norms).

Most of the more "interesting" presidential pardons happen in the closing days of that administration so there's little talk about it.

[ysette9]

Back on the voting topic, I would like to see more widespread use of vote-by-mail. I’ve only voted in person once in my life, my first election after turning 18. It seemed a bit of a waste of time. Ever since then I have been permanent mail-in ballot. I can study the issues and vote with my husband from the dining room table. It works for all of Oregon, so it isn’t like it isn’t feasible.

[LennStar]

Marc Rich pardon by Clinton was iffy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

That dude was the epitome of a shady businessmen. He was a champion of working with dictators and despots and shady regimes of all variety.

In other words, he was the epitome of US foreign activities?

Sorry, I just could not let this pass go to waste :D

Back on the voting topic, I would like to see more widespread use of vote-by-mail. I’ve only voted in person once in my life, my first election after turning 18. It seemed a bit of a waste of time.

maybe we should speak a bit about what mail-in means.
Are we only speaking about "get it per post, fill out, send in"?
Because most of the "mail votes" in Germany are actually people going to the townhouse and vote there befeore voting day. (postal is only 2 weeks before and you have to mail the town first to get the paper, in-person can be up to 6 weeks before)

[RetiredAt63]

Marc Rich pardon by Clinton was iffy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich

That dude was the epitome of a shady businessmen. He was a champion of working with dictators and despots and shady regimes of all variety.

In other words, he was the epitome of US foreign activities?

Sorry, I just could not let this pass go to waste :D

Back on the voting topic, I would like to see more widespread use of vote-by-mail. I’ve only voted in person once in my life, my first election after turning 18. It seemed a bit of a waste of time.

maybe we should speak a bit about what mail-in means.
Are we only speaking about "get it per post, fill out, send in"?
Because most of the "mail votes" in Germany are actually people going to the townhouse and vote there befeore voting day. (postal is only 2 weeks before and you have to mail the town first to get the paper, in-person can be up to 6 weeks before)

Can't speak for the Americans,  but what you are describing sounds like advanced voting here.  It's meant for people who aren't sure they will be able to vote on Election day.

[Travis]

"Mail-in" in the USA means "fill out piece of paper and give it to the postal system days or weeks before Election Day"

[MasterStache]

Actually since Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives, he no longer has pardoning power. Stone's conviction still holds up. It's his sentence that was commuted.
This is an interesting read as to the debate over the origins of presidential pardoning power.
It's as if they understood and feared that someone like a Donald Trump would be elected one day.

[talltexan]

Makes old fashioned paper ballots look good.  Easy to allocate resources when they are are all low tech.

I may be biased, my federal and provincial elections are all low tech.  I voted by computer once in a rural municipal election.

We still use paper ballots in Michigan. I think the population would revolt if we lost our election paper trail.

They certainly make it easier to do recounts.

I really do think we're going to have a situation this year like Florida in 2000, but it will be in several states. There will be a lot of delay already because of the absentee votes, but we're probably going to have multiple GOP Secretaries of State trying to close the count early, and I'm expecting at least one GOP legislature--probably in Florida or GA--that will just assign their state's electors to Trump.

[talltexan]

I haven't looked closely at the latest posts, but no one mentioned clemency for Roger Stone?  Isn't this the very definition of a Constitutional Crisis - The Executive Branch has bypassed the Legislative Branch (Congress being lied to on several counts of an investigation in to the Executive Branch, an individual that helped get the President elected) and Judicial Branch (individual then convicted of felonies but granted clemency by the Executive Branch, the President that was elected, in part, by said illegal behavior).

WTF is going on in this country?

It's only illegal if your party is willing to throw you under the bus.

EV202 - it was mentioned earlier in the thread on the previous page, but didn't attract much outrage, which I find surprising.  Cohen serves time because he sang; Stone kept quiet and gets a hall pass.  So much for the Rule of Law.

The commutation of Stone's sentence is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I created this thread. I think almost everyone expected it would happen at some point. I pray that it happened this early because it's slowly dawning on Republicans that they won't win very much in November.

[Tyler durden]

I don’t think republicans will care about Stone. People look at these situations  through Their own political lenses. I bet most people in general couldn’t tell you what Stone even did unless they googled it first.

So you won’t see much outrage on the right. As you didn’t see much on the left from Clinton pardoning mark rich.

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

[economista]

We have mail in ballots in CO and it is wonderful. A few weeks before Election Day a ballot shows up at your house. You fill it out and put it in the envelope. You can choose to add a stamp and mail it back, back you have to make sure it will arrive by the designated date and time to be counted. OR, you can drop it off at a ballot box. There are secure ballot boxes at all of the voting precincts and they are available from the time the ballots get sent out. We filled out our primary ballots and then took a walk down the street to drop it in the box. If you want to vote in person, you can ignore your mailed ballot and go in person on Election Day.

You have to sign the mailed ballot and they DO compare the signatures. Every year there are number of ballots that get thrown out because the signature is wrong or missing. They also make sure you don’t send in a ballot and then vote in person - you will only be counted once. For me, this is enough to get around the claims that mail in ballots create a lot more fraud than in person voting. I think it levels the playing field and gives everyone the chance to vote, especially those who can’t go in person on Election Day.

[sherr]

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

[jrhampt]

Actually since Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives, he no longer has pardoning power. Stone's conviction still holds up. It's his sentence that was commuted.
This is an interesting read as to the debate over the origins of presidential pardoning power.
It's as if they understood and feared that someone like a Donald Trump would be elected one day.

Oh, that's interesting.  But it still has the effect of perverting justice.  To me, the reason Stone stands out is that this is a guy who committed crimes in order to get Trump elected.  So for him to not have to do any jail time seems very corrupt.  However, now that the Senate failed to convict and the election is only a few months away, I'm resigned to the fact that Trump gets to do all kinds of corrupt stuff.  We did what we could to get him removed in the House, but since the Senate refused to convict we lost our chance to get rid of him that way.  All we can do now is suck up the next few months and vote him out (hopefully).

[talltexan]

Suppose the President decides to pardon someone despite the fact that the House voted to impeach him late last year. What would be different? Would Barr decide that it somehow didn't count?

Commuting Stone's sentence keeps him out of jail (which--for a man in his 70s, in a time of COVID--is really the key). Will he not work for the Trump Campaign now? Is Roger stone so hard-up financially that he needs to work? He'll be able to earn speaking fees like Ollie North did to support himself for another fifteen years probably.

[Norioch]

Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal process. If the House impeaches someone and the Senate indicts, they just get removed from their position. They're not automatically subject to any sentence for a crime. There's nothing for the president to pardon.

[ixtap]

"Mail-in" in the USA means "fill out piece of paper and give it to the postal system days or weeks before Election Day"

In CA, you can also do a secure drop off. That is, you receive the ballot in the mail, and you can mail it back (pre paid postage) or choose to drop it off, the libraries and other county buildings have trained election staff and sealed ballot  bags there for a couple of weeks before the election.

[Tyler durden]

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

Sure. See Clinton’s pardon of Susan Mcdougal who went to jail while she covered up the white water investigation.

This doesn’t excuse trump. But a crystal clear example of a president pardoning someone so he himself could stay out of trouble.

[Glenstache]

Suppose the President decides to pardon someone despite the fact that the House voted to impeach him late last year. What would be different? Would Barr decide that it somehow didn't count?

Commuting Stone's sentence keeps him out of jail (which--for a man in his 70s, in a time of COVID--is really the key). Will he not work for the Trump Campaign now? Is Roger stone so hard-up financially that he needs to work? He'll be able to earn speaking fees like Ollie North did to support himself for another fifteen years probably.

I fully expect Stone to be paraded at a rally or two to rile up the true believers.

Yes, there is a long history of questionable pardons. Iran Contra and a handful of the Clinton pardons stick out. I think the statement from the WH house about Stone sticks out for its outrageousness. Heck, it even prompted Mueller to finally come out and  say something in public.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/11/mueller-stone-oped/?arc404=true

Let's not forget that this whole affair is really about foreign interference in our electoral process. The evidence for that is rock solid and only contested by a small handful of people who directly benefited (see WH statement, above). This will be at play in 2020 as well and the GOP has systematically blocked pretty much all attempts at shoring up the upcoming election. That alone should be enough for a patriotic American to vote the scoundrels out. 

[sherr]

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

Sure. See Clinton’s pardon of Susan Mcdougal who went to jail while she covered up the white water investigation.

This doesn’t excuse trump. But a crystal clear example of a president pardoning someone so he himself could stay out of trouble.

I don't really know much about the McDougal / Rich pardons, given that I was 15 at the time. It is clear however that Trump has led the most openly corrupt administration of my adult life, including his pardons, and I am disgusted by him. And I would be too by any Democratic equivalent, if such a thing has ever or will ever exist. And by anyone who would attempt to minimize the corruption as merely "both sides" "partisan politics".

[bacchi]

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

Sure. See Clinton’s pardon of Susan Mcdougal who went to jail while she covered up the white water investigation.

This doesn’t excuse trump. But a crystal clear example of a president pardoning someone so he himself could stay out of trouble.

I don't really know much about the McDougal / Rich pardons, given that I was 15 at the time. It is clear however that Trump has led the most openly corrupt administration of my adult life, including his pardons, and I am disgusted by him. And I would be too by any Democratic equivalent, if such a thing has ever or will ever exist. And by anyone who would attempt to minimize the corruption as merely "both sides" "partisan politics".

The reason that the McDougal pardon wasn't challenged is because the impeachment articles weren't about Whitewater.

[Kris]

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

Manning had already served 7 years in prison when Obama commuted her sentence, and Obama didn't have any personal connection to the case.

You can complain about presidential pardons / commutations in general all you want to, but this is apples-to-oranges to compare to Trump pardoning/commuting his flunkies that keep their mouths closed about him. That's not "partisan politics", it's blatant corruption.

Sure. See Clinton’s pardon of Susan Mcdougal who went to jail while she covered up the white water investigation.

This doesn’t excuse trump. But a crystal clear example of a president pardoning someone so he himself could stay out of trouble.

I don't really know much about the McDougal / Rich pardons, given that I was 15 at the time. It is clear however that Trump has led the most openly corrupt administration of my adult life, including his pardons, and I am disgusted by him. And I would be too by any Democratic equivalent, if such a thing has ever or will ever exist. And by anyone who would attempt to minimize the corruption as merely "both sides" "partisan politics".

+1

[LennStar]

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

First of all she didn't leak anthing to any enemies. If at all, that leaking was done by jourmalists that got the material. Or in legalise "was acquitted of aiding the enemy."
Second nobody could proof that soldiers were in danger because of the leaks. That is the official statement.
Third, if your country does war crimes and those endanger your soldiers, consider it bad luck.

Fourth, if you consider UN voices and international prices, it seems the whole world except the US right is of the opinion that it was very good that those leaks happened.

Yes, you are right, partisan politics.

[John Galt incarnate!]

Actually since Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives, he no longer has pardoning power. Stone's conviction still holds up. It's his sentence that was commuted.
This is an interesting read as to the debate over the origins of presidential pardoning power.
It's as if they understood and feared that someone like a Donald Trump would be elected one day.

When a president's  pardon power is discussed "plenary" is often used to describe the power.

Though the pardon power is plenary, no constitutional bar  precludes  the House of Representatives from using  its impeachment power to impeach a president for their abuse of the pardon power.

[nereo]

Though the pardon power is plenary, no constitutional bar  precludes  the House of Representatives from using  its impeachment power to impeach a president for their abuse of the pardon power.

The constitutional bar is the Constitution, which outlines that the president can be impeached for 'Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors' (Section 4, Article 2).  SCOTUS would be the constitutional check should the House draft articles which do not meet that threshold. As the constitution also gives the President the power to pardon ("...The President shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States... Article II Section 2) the pardon itself would have to have its own nefarious purpose (e.g. bribery).

To use Trump's first pardon of J. Arpaio (or Obama's granting of clemency of C. Manning) it seems unlikely that either would stand up as impeachable offenses.

[talltexan]

Indeed Trump's pardoning of Arpaio was despicable because of the senseless abuses of people, journalists, and the rule of law Arpaio has committed. But there's no question that it was lawful.

[John Galt incarnate!]

Though the pardon power is plenary, no constitutional bar  precludes  the House of Representatives from using  its impeachment power to impeach a president for their abuse of the pardon power.

The constitutional bar is the Constitution, which outlines that the president can be impeached for 'Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors' (Section 4, Article 2).  SCOTUS would be the constitutional check should the House draft articles which do not meet that threshold. .

I entirely disagree.

"High  Crimes  and Misdemeanors" could include a president's abuse of their pardon power for the reason of Gerald Ford's  sweeping description  of an impeachable offense: “An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.”

Given that impeachment is highly political, under the Political Question Doctrine the Supreme Court would decline  adjudicating the proper threshold as to what constitutes an impeachable offense. This threshold is to be determined by the House and not the Supreme Court.

There is as much chance of the Supreme Court adjudicating this aspect of the House's impeachment power as there is a unanimous Court striking down Congress' taxing power.

[Tyler durden]

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

First of all she didn't leak anthing to any enemies. If at all, that leaking was done by jourmalists that got the material. Or in legalise "was acquitted of aiding the enemy."
Second nobody could proof that soldiers were in danger because of the leaks. That is the official statement.
Third, if your country does war crimes and those endanger your soldiers, consider it bad luck.

Fourth, if you consider UN voices and international prices, it seems the whole world except the US right is of the opinion that it was very good that those leaks happened.

Yes, you are right, partisan politics.

I’m sure that 35 year sentence handed down was because she was such a good person. You make her sound like a hero. Maybe we can put her on Rushmore.

[nereo]

I entirely disagree.

I was not offering an opinion.

[GuitarStv]

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

First of all she didn't leak anthing to any enemies. If at all, that leaking was done by jourmalists that got the material. Or in legalise "was acquitted of aiding the enemy."
Second nobody could proof that soldiers were in danger because of the leaks. That is the official statement.
Third, if your country does war crimes and those endanger your soldiers, consider it bad luck.

Fourth, if you consider UN voices and international prices, it seems the whole world except the US right is of the opinion that it was very good that those leaks happened.

Yes, you are right, partisan politics.

I’m sure that 35 year sentence handed down was because she was such a good person. You make her sound like a hero. Maybe we can put her on Rushmore.

It's bizarre to see someone with the name "Tyler Durden" so pro-establishment and such an advocate of following rules/laws that don't make sense.

[Gremlin]

Or Obama’s decision to commute Chelsea Manning’s prison sentence.  Someone who leaked army intelligence to our enemies and put soldiers lives in danger. In fact the left generally cheered that decision because.... reasons. Lol

It’s partisan politics.

First of all she didn't leak anthing to any enemies. If at all, that leaking was done by jourmalists that got the material. Or in legalise "was acquitted of aiding the enemy."
Second nobody could proof that soldiers were in danger because of the leaks. That is the official statement.
Third, if your country does war crimes and those endanger your soldiers, consider it bad luck.

Fourth, if you consider UN voices and international prices, it seems the whole world except the US right is of the opinion that it was very good that those leaks happened.

Yes, you are right, partisan politics.

I’m sure that 35 year sentence handed down was because she was such a good person. You make her sound like a hero. Maybe we can put her on Rushmore.

It's bizarre to see someone with the name "Tyler Durden" so pro-establishment and such an advocate of following rules/laws that don't make sense.

Clearly you don't know the first rule, @GuitarStv.  Or rule seven, for that matter.

[Norioch]

Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

[LennStar]

Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

That is a very effective and cheap way to lower infection numbers, you have to acknoledge that!!

The orange ape is clearly in panic mode. I would not be surprised if he actually tries to sue hospitals.

[RetiredAt63]

Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

Wow, just wow. Can he do that? 

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

Jesus. And this is the same dickhead that bitched and moaned about a supposed Chinese cover up.

[PKFFW]

Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

[talltexan]

I remember during the 2001 recession, the US trade deficit was so large that the rest of the world experienced an economic downturn, and everyone said, "When the US sneezes, the world catches a cold!"

And now the US is the hub of a global pandemic.

[brandon1827]

If anyone watched that shit show in the Rose Garden yesterday afternoon and still votes for that guy, then we get what we deserve. He looked absolutely terrible and rambled incoherently. It was difficult to watch. He's either on a lot of drugs, rapidly declining with dementia, or has some underlying health problems that are causing him to deteriorate very quickly. I get that he's under a huge amount of stress trying to find a way to get his footing in the election so that he can avoid prison, but damn...dude is in rough shape

[OtherJen]

Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

Go ahead and be blunt, although you're preaching to the choir with most posters here. I've written off his supporters as hopeless. They're brainwashed, and cult deprogramming is the only hope. They aren't the majority, but if we can't get the majority out to vote then yes, we absolutely deserve 4 more years of this. At that point, we will seriously be looking for a way out of the country.

[OtherJen]

If anyone watched that shit show in the Rose Garden yesterday afternoon and still votes for that guy, then we get what we deserve. He looked absolutely terrible and rambled incoherently. It was difficult to watch. He's either on a lot of drugs, rapidly declining with dementia, or has some underlying health problems that are causing him to deteriorate very quickly. I get that he's under a huge amount of stress trying to find a way to get his footing in the election so that he can avoid prison, but damn...dude is in rough shape

This. His supporters are a cult at this point. It's the only explanation. He is Dear Leader, and they will require deprogramming before they destroy all of us.

[Dancin'Dog]

Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

Go ahead and be blunt, although you're preaching to the choir with most posters here. I've written off his supporters as hopeless. They're brainwashed, and cult deprogramming is the only hope. They aren't the majority, but if we can't get the majority out to vote then yes, we absolutely deserve 4 more years of this. At that point, we will seriously be looking for a way out of the country.

Ditto.  Us too.


Will we be considered expats or political refugees? 

[brandon1827]

Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

Go ahead and be blunt, although you're preaching to the choir with most posters here. I've written off his supporters as hopeless. They're brainwashed, and cult deprogramming is the only hope. They aren't the majority, but if we can't get the majority out to vote then yes, we absolutely deserve 4 more years of this. At that point, we will seriously be looking for a way out of the country.

Ditto.  Us too.


Will we be considered expats or political refugees?

It's funny because people say this all the time...I just think a lot of people really, truly mean it this time...myself included. My wife's birth-mother (she was adopted, long story) lives in Canada and is preparing to move here. I'm thinking we need to have her stay put because we may need to move up there instead.

[Plina]

Trump is now instructing hospitals not to report covid-19 data to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/14/trump-administration-to-hospitals-dont-send-covid-19-coronavirus-data-to-cdc/#4ad8d58f60f8

Sorry to be so blunt, and I say this as an ex-pat (parents took me with them when I was 3) with family over there and would love to visit more often, but seriously, if Trump is reelected in November you people have only yourselves to blame and I just hope the rest of the world doesn't have to pay too high a price because of your collective idiocy.

Go ahead and be blunt, although you're preaching to the choir with most posters here. I've written off his supporters as hopeless. They're brainwashed, and cult deprogramming is the only hope. They aren't the majority, but if we can't get the majority out to vote then yes, we absolutely deserve 4 more years of this. At that point, we will seriously be looking for a way out of the country.

Ditto.  Us too.


Will we be considered expats or political refugees?

If you have money you are considered expats, otherwise you are refugees. So, tell me.

[talltexan]

@GreenEggs you're with the MMM crowd, so hopefully you have a nice 'stache that can move you into the "expatriot" category, and earn you access to fancy balls, etc.

I'm envisioning something like the grand duchess' lifestyle in "Anastasia".

[Tyler durden]

I had forgotten about this part of the election cycle.

The one where celebrities claim they’ll move out of the US if orange man is re elected. Doesn’t seem many had the stones to do it last time but maybe this time will be different ...

[Just Joe]

Would be a good reason to have healthy emergency fund!

I don't worry too much about this president b/c everything he does can be undone by the next more moderate president.

However if our country elects two or three turkeys in a row - especially if each are more extreme in their ideologies - then yeah, Canadian winters here we come.