Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 100045 times)

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #800 on: January 22, 2020, 09:04:30 PM »
The 9 states in 2019 that banned early abortion spring immediately to mind.

Giving Dr.'s the right to refuse to give care to someone whose lifestyle they disagree with.

What lifestyle exactly, is that?

That would be the lifestyle where the woman is not barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.   Cooking and cleaning.

When a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, she's pretty despicable right?  That's why we're punishing her by forcing her to have the baby?

Or when a woman wants a baby, but finds out that the kid has a disease that will cause death shortly after birth . . . and wants to spare the fetus a short life of intense suffering . . . what a disgusting lifestyle.

Or since no birth control method is 100% effective, she is in the failure group through no fault of her own. Or is using birth control a moral failure too?  Even if you are married, and even if you already have all the children you want?

That's a pretty accurate description of the beliefs re: birth control of the church in which I grew up.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #801 on: January 22, 2020, 10:16:56 PM »
The 9 states in 2019 that banned early abortion spring immediately to mind.

Giving Dr.'s the right to refuse to give care to someone whose lifestyle they disagree with.

What lifestyle exactly, is that?

That would be the lifestyle where the woman is not barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.   Cooking and cleaning.

When a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, she's pretty despicable right?  That's why we're punishing her by forcing her to have the baby?

Or when a woman wants a baby, but finds out that the kid has a disease that will cause death shortly after birth . . . and wants to spare the fetus a short life of intense suffering . . . what a disgusting lifestyle.

Or since no birth control method is 100% effective, she is in the failure group through no fault of her own. Or is using birth control a moral failure too?  Even if you are married, and even if you already have all the children you want?

That's a pretty accurate description of the beliefs re: birth control of the church in which I grew up.

Well, the Roman Catholic church is still there - what about Protestant groups?  I'm nominally Anglican so these issues don't arise.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #802 on: January 23, 2020, 08:20:44 AM »
It is a steep punishment. Even really wanting kids pregnancy was awful for me and little babies were even worse. I wouldn’t wish them on anyone who was less than 110% gung ho about parenthood.

But that's the point.  Women (and only women) need to be punished for having sex.  They're all vile temptresses who got us thrown out of eternal paradise.  I've totally got a book that's been written and re-written by thousands of men over thousands of years that tells me so.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #803 on: January 23, 2020, 08:43:23 AM »
Also - no one here is suggesting HRC be installed as president. The argument is that Trump is unfit fo office, having violated his oath and broken numerous laws. Ergo, Mike Pence should be president.

(Four years ago I never thought I would have uttered that last sentence).

I think the fear is that Pence is implicated in the same shenanigans and many believe that means Pelosi would be next in line. However, since Pence is not being impeached at this time, he would nominate a VP who would most likely replace him.

I've been trying to get Republican friends I have to mentally "stand down" by assuring them that Pence was a good business-friendly governor in Indiana (in addition to his faith-credentials. Every time, I get reminded that the Republican party has basically been remade as Trump's party. He owns it. They have tied themselves to him irreversibly.

They have thrown themselves behind Trump as Fighter of Corruption and Defender of American Values. You and I might see accepting impeachment as admitting they were wrong. They choose to see impeachment as the triumph of corruption and destruction of American values.

The GOP projects ALOT these days. Most everything any of them say about their rivals best applies to themselves most accurately. Drain the swamp? Trump added to the swamp. GOP talks about freedom but its their group that wants to limit everyone's freedoms to live, love and get medical care. The GOP talks about the importance of law and then reaches out and bombs other countries...

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #804 on: January 23, 2020, 09:01:51 AM »
The US, for all of it's talk of 'freedom of religion' is very much a Christian-first nation.  As talltexan mentioned, it is not possible for a person who doesn't loudly and publicly proclaim that he believes in Christ (or at a bare minimum the Christian God) to win the highest office of the land.  I suspect that it's also not possible for a gay man or woman to become president - again for the same reasons.  A great many laws are enacted based either solely or at least partly on religious reasoning - marriage/monogamy, abortion, homosexuality, transgender rights, doctor assisted suicide, cloning animals, etc.

That's why it always cracks me up when I hear Americans railing against how unfair Islamic law is in other countries.

There are religious politics in the US, though I think you're overstating a bit how much power the most extreme bloc has. This is like the undue attention that groups like the Westboro Baptists get. A group of what 40 people at most? And there name is highly well-known. But based on how often they made the news you'd believe that they were a growing denomination of thousands. You can go to a political rally and find people saying stupid stuff, but does that actually translate into actual power? I don't think so.

From my perspective as a Mexican-American atheist, I don't think the stranglehold of white prosperity gospel Evangelicalism on this country can be overstated. I think it's the greatest threat to our democracy.

As someone living south of the Mason-Dixon line, I concur...

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #805 on: January 23, 2020, 09:32:16 AM »
At Davos, Trump is back to threatening our allies with tariffs

Just another btw: Until about 100 years ago the US was a great believer in in not protecting inventors. I don't think any other country in the 19th century "stole" so much "intellectual property" as the US. Strange that is always those who are technologically behind that think protection is bullshit (or theft), and always those ahead think that protection is God's Order.

Wait, does this mean that if I look up patents, they'll all begin in the 1910's? Can you go into more detail about how you concluded this?
Having a patent system != respecting other country's systems or inventors.
And anyway, in the time of books, we are talking about illegal book printings (= knowledge) here. The US was the biggest piracy printer in the 19th century.

Ready for a very short history on copyright?

Catholic France('s church) once banned book printing to prevent anti-katholic books from printing. Just owning one of the new things called printing press would cost you your head.
The result? A boom in Germany's Rhein-area printing industry and French smugglers developing a taste for books.

And then, when even the death penalty was not harsh enough to sucessfully censor books, England's queen Anne invented the copyright to use a monopoly to outsource censoring.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne

And half a century later, the founding fathers of the USA, having experienced the results of that copyright thing, had a big fight over copyright - if it should exist or outright banned. 
They compromised on the constitutian's formula that there can be a copyright "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause), That goal-clause was (after already vamporized in reality) effectivly made obsolete by the Sonny Bono copyright term extension act (better known as Mickey Mouse act, linked in the WP entry above), thanks to which Sonny Bono got a star on the walk of fame and the rest of the world 20 years of vanished books.




GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #806 on: January 23, 2020, 09:36:53 AM »
Can someone explain how a hundred years of not allowing other people to use the likeness of Mickey Mouse has promoted the progress of Science or the Arts?  :P

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #807 on: January 23, 2020, 04:09:58 PM »
From BBC News: Trump rolls back US water pollution controls

Quote
Under the new regulations, landowners and property developers will be able to pour pesticides, fertilisers and other pollutants directly into millions of miles of the nation's waterways for the first time in decades.

So much winning. I sure am glad he's making America great again (yes this is sarcasm; I live in the freaking Great Lakes state).

scottish

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #808 on: January 23, 2020, 05:09:36 PM »
Can someone explain how a hundred years of not allowing other people to use the likeness of Mickey Mouse has promoted the progress of Science or the Arts?  :P


Errr, pretty sure Mickey Mouse is a trademark, not  a patent.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #809 on: January 23, 2020, 10:03:14 PM »
Can someone explain how a hundred years of not allowing other people to use the likeness of Mickey Mouse has promoted the progress of Science or the Arts?  :P

Errr, pretty sure Mickey Mouse is a trademark, not  a patent.

Copyright actually.

Patent: Physical and process inventions (drugs, a new form of artificial photosynthesis, a way to make diesel engines more efficient).
Trademark: This is the Mark under which I embark in Trade (eg. "Disney", the Disney castle logo). No one else may use it in business sectors that I compete in.
Copyright: I have the exclusive Right to Copy this thing I made (books, music, movies, drawings of mice).

Although to be fair I think that Disney does also have Mikey-related trademarks, like the mouse ears logo.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 10:23:07 PM by sherr »

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #810 on: January 23, 2020, 10:46:30 PM »
"Repeatedly extending things retroactively is not the same as perpetual" is about as smart an idea as "money is speech." Such comedy :)

Davnasty

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #811 on: January 24, 2020, 07:54:57 AM »
Can someone explain how a hundred years of not allowing other people to use the likeness of Mickey Mouse has promoted the progress of Science or the Arts?  :P

Errr, pretty sure Mickey Mouse is a trademark, not  a patent.

Copyright actually.

Patent: Physical and process inventions (drugs, a new form of artificial photosynthesis, a way to make diesel engines more efficient).
Trademark: This is the Mark under which I embark in Trade (eg. "Disney", the Disney castle logo). No one else may use it in business sectors that I compete in.
Copyright: I have the exclusive Right to Copy this thing I made (books, music, movies, drawings of mice).

Although to be fair I think that Disney does also have Mikey-related trademarks, like the mouse ears logo.

And this is how counterfeiters skirt those laws :)

"Look kids, It's Mikey Mouse!"

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #812 on: January 24, 2020, 08:02:21 AM »
I'm excited about this trademark stuff. Can we return to the topic at hand.

How do we expect Trump's team to move trademark policy?

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #813 on: January 24, 2020, 08:15:01 AM »
How do we expect Trump's team to move trademark policy?

In a poorly thought out way that's a disadvantage to most, a bad idea in the long term, but benefits Trump personally right now in some way.  Y'know.  Like the vast majority of their strategies.

Omy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #814 on: January 24, 2020, 08:33:51 AM »
Here's an "outrage" for you"...Alexandra Chalupa posted on FB:

"This isn’t Vlad the Impaler but the President of the United States’ team threatening U.S. Senators who are serving as jurors that if they hold Trump accountable for his crimes against the U.S., by voting against him, then their “head will be on a pike.”

Threatening U.S. officials is a felony.

Threatening jurors is a felony.

This warrants an immediate investigation to confirm these threats are being made, how widely, and who in the White House is involved in this criminal activity."

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #815 on: January 24, 2020, 08:35:51 AM »
Yeah, that's the paradox for Republicans.

Trump is good for them as long as enough of them support him. But when that support falls below some level (presumably the level that makes it difficult to collect enough states' senate seats and electoral votes), it suddenly turns toxic.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #816 on: January 24, 2020, 09:01:42 AM »
Yeah, that's the paradox for Republicans.

Trump is good for them as long as enough of them support him. But when that support falls below some level (presumably the level that makes it difficult to collect enough states' senate seats and electoral votes), it suddenly turns toxic.

Would the Senate have a better shot of remaining GOP if they keep Trump or dump him? You would lose Trump boys, but then you may also prevent the anti-Trump vote from coming out. I feel like reducing the number of voters would overall come out in GOP favor. I can't imagine most senators believe Trump has a good chance of re-election.

GreenEggs

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #817 on: January 24, 2020, 09:04:56 AM »
Assuming the Senate doesn't remove Trump from office.  Can't the House impeach him again?  Would it "just be a waste of time" to give the Senate a 2nd chance, or maybe even a 3rd chance? 


Like a clogged toilet.  You've got to keep plunging until it goes down.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #818 on: January 24, 2020, 09:16:36 AM »
Yeah, that's the paradox for Republicans.

Trump is good for them as long as enough of them support him. But when that support falls below some level (presumably the level that makes it difficult to collect enough states' senate seats and electoral votes), it suddenly turns toxic.

Would the Senate have a better shot of remaining GOP if they keep Trump or dump him? You would lose Trump boys, but then you may also prevent the anti-Trump vote from coming out. I feel like reducing the number of voters would overall come out in GOP favor. I can't imagine most senators believe Trump has a good chance of re-election.

The only way Trump doesn't get reelected is if the economy tanks between now and November.

No fact is going to sway his supporters. I had one yesterday brag about the local increase in property values and the next post on Facebook was outrage at the local COL.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #819 on: January 24, 2020, 09:20:59 AM »
I sometimes wonder if Republicans aren't planning to use Trump to win in Nov., then--early January--they replace him with Pence to get a bonus term (since Pence can run in 2024).

But whenever I listen to any GOP primary campaign, I am reminded that the whole party is basically Trump's party now. Betrayal is impossible without getting the Justin Amash treatment.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #820 on: January 24, 2020, 09:56:24 AM »
With the impeachment trial going on, Trump is working hard to shore up his base by being the first president to attend the March for Life. And accordingly, of course, the White House FB page is going crazy posting all these articles, videos, etc. crowing about how he's the most pro-life president in history.

Which makes me want to alternately laugh and vomit. Because I would bet money that Donald Trump has personally paid for more abortions than any other president in history.


LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #821 on: January 24, 2020, 10:04:41 AM »
"Repeatedly extending things retroactively is not the same as perpetual" is about as smart an idea as "money is speech." Such comedy :)

Did the WP article included the "if infinite time is unconstitutional, then let's take infinite minus one year" argument?

And ladies and gentlemen, was corporate influence on politics before Trump, who is his own lobby group just for him.

I admit the head on a pole statement had me chuckle a bit after the bewilderment. Unfortunately it is only figure of speak. I would love a public display, as in the good ol' times!

Samuel

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #822 on: January 24, 2020, 10:27:21 AM »
Here's an "outrage" for you"...Alexandra Chalupa posted on FB:

"This isn’t Vlad the Impaler but the President of the United States’ team threatening U.S. Senators who are serving as jurors that if they hold Trump accountable for his crimes against the U.S., by voting against him, then their “head will be on a pike.”

Threatening U.S. officials is a felony.

Threatening jurors is a felony.

This warrants an immediate investigation to confirm these threats are being made, how widely, and who in the White House is involved in this criminal activity."

Meh. That would be noteworthy under any other President but unfortunately that language is par for the course now.

Plus it seems pretty obvious to me they're talking about the Senators' constituents coming for them in the next election should they vote to remove, not a physical threat.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #823 on: January 24, 2020, 10:30:39 AM »

The only way Trump doesn't get reelected is if the economy tanks between now and November.

No fact is going to sway his supporters. I had one yesterday brag about the local increase in property values and the next post on Facebook was outrage at the local COL.
Numerically speaking, Trump's supporters are woefully insufficient for him to win re-election on their votes alone.  He's been sitting at or near 41% for the last 2.5 years, and very little has changed that.  Meanwhile disapproval stands above 53% and has remained around that level for almost his entire presidency.  That means there's roughly 6% of voters "in the middle" (who neither approve nor disapprove).

Trump eeked out a win with an historically unpopular Democratic candidate, and lost the popular vote by almost 3 million votes.  Trump still took home 46% of the popular vote. He will need at least 46% of the vote to win re-election (factoring in some 3rd party votes and the EC) - and probably closer to 48%.  Question is: from where does he get that additional 5-7% of voters to bring him up from his current and persistent polling of 41%?  My perspective is his only shot is to tar and feather the eventual nominee to a degree where he discourages many Dems from voting.  Given recent elections (2018 & special elections) the Dem base is as energized as ever.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #824 on: January 24, 2020, 10:56:14 AM »
Well, there had to be a tape somewhere...
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-ukraine-ambassador/story?id=68506437

Seems like Trump was discussing these things in semi-public places and someone "happened" to leave their phone on the table and recording...

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #825 on: January 24, 2020, 11:12:52 AM »
Well, there had to be a tape somewhere...
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-ukraine-ambassador/story?id=68506437

Seems like Trump was discussing these things in semi-public places and someone "happened" to leave their phone on the table and recording...

This guy must give the CIA security-induced aneurysms.
::facepalm::

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #826 on: January 24, 2020, 11:13:14 AM »
With the impeachment trial going on, Trump is working hard to shore up his base by being the first president to attend the March for Life. And accordingly, of course, the White House FB page is going crazy posting all these articles, videos, etc. crowing about how he's the most pro-life president in history.

Which makes me want to alternately laugh and vomit. Because I would bet money that Donald Trump has personally paid for more abortions than any other president in history.

Yep. This blog post sums up my opinion of the pro-fetus cult: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/suspendedinherjar/2020/01/trump-attending-the-march-for-life/

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #827 on: January 24, 2020, 11:15:07 AM »
Well, there had to be a tape somewhere...
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-ukraine-ambassador/story?id=68506437

Seems like Trump was discussing these things in semi-public places and someone "happened" to leave their phone on the table and recording...

This guy must give the CIA security-induced aneurysms.
::facepalm::
I suspect talking in public places is not the top of their list of concerns with him...

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #828 on: January 24, 2020, 11:33:37 AM »

The only way Trump doesn't get reelected is if the economy tanks between now and November.

No fact is going to sway his supporters. I had one yesterday brag about the local increase in property values and the next post on Facebook was outrage at the local COL.
Numerically speaking, Trump's supporters are woefully insufficient for him to win re-election on their votes alone.  He's been sitting at or near 41% for the last 2.5 years, and very little has changed that.  Meanwhile disapproval stands above 53% and has remained around that level for almost his entire presidency.  That means there's roughly 6% of voters "in the middle" (who neither approve nor disapprove).

Trump eeked out a win with an historically unpopular Democratic candidate, and lost the popular vote by almost 3 million votes.  Trump still took home 46% of the popular vote. He will need at least 46% of the vote to win re-election (factoring in some 3rd party votes and the EC) - and probably closer to 48%.  Question is: from where does he get that additional 5-7% of voters to bring him up from his current and persistent polling of 41%?  My perspective is his only shot is to tar and feather the eventual nominee to a degree where he discourages many Dems from voting.  Given recent elections (2018 & special elections) the Dem base is as energized as ever.

The problem with starting at 41% approval rating as your baseline is that we stand without knowing who his Democratic challenger will be. That person could scare independents as much as Trump does.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #829 on: January 24, 2020, 11:42:20 AM »
The problem with starting at 41% approval rating as your baseline is that we stand without knowing who his Democratic challenger will be. That person could scare independents as much as Trump does.

Or that candidate could offer some Trump supporters a viable alternative?

The problem isn't his relatively low support, compared to previous presidential elections in the modern era. The problem is that it's going to be close enough (again) that efforts of voter suppression, "lost" ballots, insecure ballot counting, etc. will remain an undeniable concern for those of us who will not support Trump (and to be fair, those who do support him will be able to raise similar, though in my opinion likely unfounded, arguments should he actually lose). And either way, like Schiff repeated last night, who here sincerely believes that Trump and his administration have any interest in preventing any of these problems? And they certainly have no interest in going even further to make this the most secure, free, and fair election to date.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #830 on: January 24, 2020, 11:46:31 AM »

The only way Trump doesn't get reelected is if the economy tanks between now and November.

No fact is going to sway his supporters. I had one yesterday brag about the local increase in property values and the next post on Facebook was outrage at the local COL.
Numerically speaking, Trump's supporters are woefully insufficient for him to win re-election on their votes alone.  He's been sitting at or near 41% for the last 2.5 years, and very little has changed that.  Meanwhile disapproval stands above 53% and has remained around that level for almost his entire presidency.  That means there's roughly 6% of voters "in the middle" (who neither approve nor disapprove).

Trump eeked out a win with an historically unpopular Democratic candidate, and lost the popular vote by almost 3 million votes.  Trump still took home 46% of the popular vote. He will need at least 46% of the vote to win re-election (factoring in some 3rd party votes and the EC) - and probably closer to 48%.  Question is: from where does he get that additional 5-7% of voters to bring him up from his current and persistent polling of 41%?  My perspective is his only shot is to tar and feather the eventual nominee to a degree where he discourages many Dems from voting.  Given recent elections (2018 & special elections) the Dem base is as energized as ever.

The problem with starting at 41% approval rating as your baseline is that we stand without knowing who his Democratic challenger will be. That person could scare independents as much as Trump does.

This is true, but the bigger problem IMO is the persistent 53% disapproval rating.  How does team Trump chip away at that?  Pretty certain this is going to be the most expensive re-election campaign in history, and possibly the most expensive presidential election, period.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #831 on: January 24, 2020, 11:46:38 AM »
With the impeachment trial going on, Trump is working hard to shore up his base by being the first president to attend the March for Life. And accordingly, of course, the White House FB page is going crazy posting all these articles, videos, etc. crowing about how he's the most pro-life president in history.

Which makes me want to alternately laugh and vomit. Because I would bet money that Donald Trump has personally paid for more abortions than any other president in history.

Over/under - 8 abortions he's encouraged due to his raw-dogging extra marital affairs.
Over/under - 5 abortions he has said he'd paid for
Over/under - 2 abortions he's actually paid for

Samuel

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #832 on: January 24, 2020, 11:53:08 AM »
With the impeachment trial going on, Trump is working hard to shore up his base by being the first president to attend the March for Life. And accordingly, of course, the White House FB page is going crazy posting all these articles, videos, etc. crowing about how he's the most pro-life president in history.

Which makes me want to alternately laugh and vomit. Because I would bet money that Donald Trump has personally paid for more abortions than any other president in history.

Every time I see the religious right falling all over themselves to support Trump I can't help but think of the West Wing (particularly the bolded bit):

"I don't see how we can have a separation of church and state in this government if you have to pass a religious test to get in this government. And I want to warn everyone in the press and all the voters out there if you demand expressions of religious faith from politicians, you are just begging to be lied to. They won't all lie to you but a lot of them will. And it will be the easiest lie they ever had to tell to get your votes. So, every day until the end of this campaign, I'll answer any question anyone has on government, But if you have a question on religion, please go to church. "
-Alan Alda playing California Republican Senator Arnold Vinick on The West Wing

"I'm a devout Christian too" really is the easiest lie Trump has ever told, which is saying something. He must see them as the biggest suckers in the world.

EDIT: Or, more cynically, he rightly sizes them (particularly their leaders) up as willing to accept a whole lot of hypocrisy in exchange for pro-life judges and policies.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 12:10:55 PM by Samuel »

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #833 on: January 24, 2020, 12:14:33 PM »
I'm reminded how the Framers didn't want separation of Church and State because they were worried about religion entering politics - they were worried about politics interfering with and ultimately controlling their religion (as it had with the Church of England).

The evangelicals have opened pandora's box by becoming deeper and deeper entwined with one political party.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #834 on: January 24, 2020, 12:19:09 PM »
From what I can tell the evangelical supporters don't believe he is either a Christian or a devout one. What they seem to be saying that even a flawed sinful person can be used as a tool by God. Kind of like how God used a flood to wash away all the sinners. Theoretically I mean I guess God can use the Devil or Satan to do his works too, have Hitler while we are at it? To me this argument doesn't make sense. There are many many good people in the world who are positioned to be God's instrument. Why pick a flawed instrument that could break in your hands or cause confusion about your intent, so clearly spelled out such as in the 10 commandments. Someone believing God is somehow behind Trump, would may cause you to question whether the 10 commandments are still important? This person broke almost all of them and bragged about breaking the rest, yet somehow wins God's approval? It's like he's making a punchline of his own teachings. 

And I'm not sure how they feel about the fact the person they think God "chose" to do his work (his right hand man) is obviously going to Hell. There is no unambiguity about that fact.

I'm not particularly religious but the more parsimonious answer he is like what they warned in the Bible there will be many wolves wrapped in sheep's clothing. Invoking God or God's words to trick believers. There were plenty of those in the past as there are in the present, and there will be in the future. Christians are taught to lead from love, not fear. Trump inspires by fear as well as hatred. I think for those who believe in God, reach deep down in their heart they will know the answer. I honestly think that is why Pence looks so uncomfortable. He knows what Trump is, but is in too deep. 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 12:29:01 PM by partgypsy »

Omy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #835 on: January 24, 2020, 12:36:19 PM »
A lot of the Trumpsters I know think he is an "honorable" man. They don't see his flaws, lies or transgressions - they just think the dems and the media have been out for him since day one. Poor persecuted Trump.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #836 on: January 24, 2020, 12:48:01 PM »
I think for those who believe in God, reach deep down in their heart they will know the answer. I honestly think that is why Pence looks so uncomfortable. He knows what Trump is, but is in too deep.

Evangelical support for Trump has consistently ranged between 70-80% over the course of Trump's presidency. He is the most popular president in living memory, maybe ever, according to them (maybe Reagan comes out ahead in some measurements, but not all of them). Evangelical leaders have almost universally been falling over themselves to excuse away every evil thing that he's done or said, and have been explicitly telling their followers that the "good Christian thing to do" is to vote for Trump.

The simplest explanation is usually the right one. They love Trump more than anyone else because Trump best exemplifies what they think a president should be like. That's what their actions, their votes, and their approval is shouting to the world, who are you or I to doubt them?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 12:56:13 PM by sherr »

js82

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #837 on: January 24, 2020, 04:14:16 PM »
The simplest explanation is usually the right one. They love Trump more than anyone else because Trump best exemplifies what they think a president should be like. That's what their actions, their votes, and their approval is shouting to the world, who are you or I to doubt them?

I'd frame it a little differently.  I've seen a couple Facebook friends who are devout Christians quote something to the following effect: "We don't need a good guy who upholds our principles, we need a street fighter who will kick ass and take names on our behalf".

(I don't recall the exact quote, but I believe it may have been lifted from Jerry Falwell Jr. or Franklin Graham)


...which really reinforces the point of a previous post in this thread - so long as they get an elected official who advances a certain agenda(conservative judges and laws/executive actions that grant greater power/influence to religious organizations), collateral damage simply doesn't matter to a sizeable number of voters.  It's about advancing an agenda regardless of the costs.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #838 on: January 24, 2020, 04:20:22 PM »
It is sad that so many Americans allow religion to get the better of them and dictate their political beliefs.

Most other developed countries are secular. America is not.

Private religious beliefs are one thing. Non-secularism is another.

To be fair, my country is lurching a bit towards religious influence, but not nearly as much as the U.S.

And I think it's something that Americans should be profoundly ashamed of.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #839 on: January 24, 2020, 04:43:43 PM »

And I think it's something that Americans should be profoundly ashamed of.

Many of us are. Profoundly.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #840 on: January 24, 2020, 04:49:37 PM »
It is sad that so many Americans allow religion to get the better of them and dictate their political beliefs.

Most other developed countries are secular. America is not.

Private religious beliefs are one thing. Non-secularism is another.

To be fair, my country is lurching a bit towards religious influence, but not nearly as much as the U.S.

And I think it's something that Americans should be profoundly ashamed of.

I waffle between being ashamed of this and of being ashamed of the logic in which such "Christian" beliefs only support the most draconian biblical teachings, and few to none of Christ's teachings.

Then there is the irrational fear of national healthcare that characterizes us as a nation.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #841 on: January 24, 2020, 04:53:11 PM »

The only way Trump doesn't get reelected is if the economy tanks between now and November.

No fact is going to sway his supporters. I had one yesterday brag about the local increase in property values and the next post on Facebook was outrage at the local COL.
Numerically speaking, Trump's supporters are woefully insufficient for him to win re-election on their votes alone.  He's been sitting at or near 41% for the last 2.5 years, and very little has changed that.  Meanwhile disapproval stands above 53% and has remained around that level for almost his entire presidency.  That means there's roughly 6% of voters "in the middle" (who neither approve nor disapprove).

Trump eeked out a win with an historically unpopular Democratic candidate, and lost the popular vote by almost 3 million votes.  Trump still took home 46% of the popular vote. He will need at least 46% of the vote to win re-election (factoring in some 3rd party votes and the EC) - and probably closer to 48%.  Question is: from where does he get that additional 5-7% of voters to bring him up from his current and persistent polling of 41%?  My perspective is his only shot is to tar and feather the eventual nominee to a degree where he discourages many Dems from voting.  Given recent elections (2018 & special elections) the Dem base is as energized as ever.

The problem with starting at 41% approval rating as your baseline is that we stand without knowing who his Democratic challenger will be. That person could scare independents as much as Trump does.

This is true, but the bigger problem IMO is the persistent 53% disapproval rating.  How does team Trump chip away at that?  Pretty certain this is going to be the most expensive re-election campaign in history, and possibly the most expensive presidential election, period.

All of this depends on where those disapprovals live.  One thing Candidate Trump and his team were really good at during the election was knowing which electoral votes to go for.  They figured early on they weren't getting California, and losing big there was the same as losing small.  If this increase in disapproval rating originates there, it doesn't even matter in the grand scheme.  If they live in states he had locked in, then it's another story.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #842 on: January 24, 2020, 05:04:36 PM »

And I think it's something that Americans should be profoundly ashamed of.

Many of us are. Profoundly.

Ashamed and horrified over here.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #843 on: January 24, 2020, 05:16:06 PM »

And I think it's something that Americans should be profoundly ashamed of.

Many of us are. Profoundly.

Ashamed and horrified over here.
Yep. But our country was largely founded by religious purists who were kicked out of Europe for a general pain in the ass, so it is kind of baked into our national DNA, unfortunately. One can only hope that it will eventually dilute over time.

js82

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #844 on: January 24, 2020, 05:31:46 PM »
Then there is the irrational fear of national healthcare that characterizes us as a nation.

I'd expand upon this a little - as an American, I'm ashamed of the way that many of our citizens seem to consistently find a way to assume the worst about others, and/or treat everything as a zero-sum transaction, which leads to some truly awful policy.

It takes well-known forms such as people propagating the legend of the mythical welfare cheat who drives an Escalade while subsisting on food stamps, or thinking people should be locked up for three decades for possessing a gram of marijuana as a teenager because drugs mean you're evil and people never change for the better, or refusing to consider collaborative action on environmental policies because we refuse to trust anyone enough to take these sorts of agreements seriously, or "no we don't want to let anyone build additional housing nearby because poor people might bring down our property values!".

On a macro level, this type of world view prevents us from making meaningful progress on certain issues that can only be tackled effectively by collective action.  Health care is but one of these.

ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #845 on: January 24, 2020, 05:40:26 PM »
It is almost like collectively we are childish. In some ways it can be good when it leads to the enthusiasm necessary for things like entrepreneurialism and crazy bets like going to the moon that maybe more so or and realistic nations wouldn’t do. But more often it ends up with this petty and short-sighted crap like you mention above. I grow more weary of it the older I get.

px4shooter

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #846 on: January 24, 2020, 05:45:18 PM »
Which makes me want to alternately laugh and vomit. Because I would bet money that Donald Trump has personally paid for more abortions than any other president in history.

Hillary has probably paid for more, but she wasn't and won't be President ;)

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #847 on: January 24, 2020, 06:04:16 PM »
More outrages today:

Trump Addresses Anti-Abortion March for Life
He is the first sitting president to speak in person during the annual rally.

E.P.A. Is Letting Cities Dump More Raw Sewage Into Rivers for Years to Come

The Post-ABC poll finds 44 percent of Americans approve of Trump’s overall job performance and 51 percent disapprove. While views of Trump remain negative, Trump’s approval rating is significantly improved from his 38 percent mark in late October.

President Trump is allegedly heard on an audio recording demanding the firing of then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch during a private dinner with top donors in April 2018, according to an audio file obtained by ABC News.
“Get rid of her! Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it,” Trump is heard saying, according to ABC News, which said it reviewed the tape.

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #848 on: January 24, 2020, 06:23:12 PM »
President Trump is allegedly heard on an audio recording demanding the firing of then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch during a private dinner with top donors in April 2018, according to an audio file obtained by ABC News.
“Get rid of her! Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it,” Trump is heard saying, according to ABC News, which said it reviewed the tape.

“Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) dismissed the recording as a reflection of how New Yorkers talk. “Totally different style,” Sen. Johnson said.”

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #849 on: January 24, 2020, 08:51:31 PM »
Which makes me want to alternately laugh and vomit. Because I would bet money that Donald Trump has personally paid for more abortions than any other president in history.

Hillary has probably paid for more, but she wasn't and won't be President ;)

Um...
how...

How do you figure?