Trump outrage of the day

[OtherJen]

Trump says he deserves Nobel Peace Prize

Of course he does. The blind arrogance, it burns.

[talltexan]

Honestly, if the Nobel committee saw fit to award the NPP to Trump, I'd be fine with it. The prestige of their prize is theirs to manage.

[Kris]

I've often thought that Obama--if he could have somehow found the ability--would have gone back and arranged for that Nobel Peace Prize to go to someone else. Being a President meant wealth was assured already, and his political opponents could simply hit him with that prize and the fact he didn't deserve it.

I agree. He clearly didn't deserve it, and he said that he didn't feel he deserved it in his remarks in response to receiving it.

It always makes me snicker when people on the right freak out about his NPP, as though it was something bad that he did, when in fact he had no control over it at all. 

[talltexan]

It's almost like people will choose any angle they can to attack a President, simply because they've already concluded they don't like the fact that he's the President.

[bluebelle]

Trump says he deserves Nobel Peace Prize

[nereo]

I’ve never really understood the rationale which seems to be: “Obama didn’t deserve to be a Peace Prize recipient, Therefore Trump should definitely get one as well

[GuitarStv]

I’ve never really understood the rationale which seems to be: “Obama didn’t deserve to be a Peace Prize, Therefore Trump should definitely get one

Maybe Mexico will pay for it.

[Bloop Bloop]

Trump tweets about attacking 52 Iranian cultural sites (despite this being a violation of the rules of war) and gets away with it.

An academic tweets about Iran attacking 52 American cultural sites and gets pillaged.

Americans aren't very good at taking their own medicine - I guess thinking that you the "the chosen one" must make you think like that. You have to understand that if you keep blowing up other countries, sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost.

[Glenstache]

Not a Trump outrage, but a heartbreaking consequence of military escalation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/world/middleeast/missile-iran-plane-crash.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

[nereo]

Not a Trump outrage, but a heartbreaking consequence of military escalation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/world/middleeast/missile-iran-plane-crash.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

I feel the US is at least partially responsible for the downed airliner.  We assassinated an Iranian General, putting their country on high alert. Then Trump threatened to bomb 52 culturally sensitive sites.  Every radar contact was viewed as another possible attack.  People got jumpy. A bunch of innocent people died.

[partgypsy]

Not a Trump outrage, but a heartbreaking consequence of military escalation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/world/middleeast/missile-iran-plane-crash.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

I feel the US is at least partially responsible for the downed airliner.  We assassinated an Iranian General, putting their country on high alert. Then Trump threatened to bomb 52 culturally sensitive sites.  Every radar contact was viewed as another possible attack.  People got jumpy. A bunch of innocent people died.

. It really is a terrible tragedy. The US should bear some blame. It feels like things have de escalated somewhat, given that the Pentagon did not back up trump anf said no, we will not be bombing important and cultural sites of Iran. Still, anything is possible with 45 in office given that it's before the election. Trump is the ultimate grifter.

[Roland of Gilead]

I don't feel the USA is responsible.

When we invaded Pakistan to kill Osama, we were actually sending troops into a nuclear armed country to target and kill a person.  That could easily have triggered events such as this plane being shot down, but luckily it didn't.

Trump has plenty of outrages without having to put this one at his feet.

[GuitarStv]

Agreed.  Trump isn't responsible for the plane being shot down.  That's on Iran.

[OtherJen]

Am I reading this correctly? Iraq’s parliament and prime minister have requested that the US withdraw, and the US is refusing to do so unless Iraq pays up, as per Trump (Reuters article).Washington spurns Iraqi call to remove troops

I guess since he’ll almost certainly get away with extortion in Ukraine, why not try it again?

Abdul Mahdi asked Pompeo to “send delegates to put in place the tools to carry out the parliament’s decision,” his office said in a statement, adding that the forces used in the killing had entered Iraq or used its airspace without permission.

The State Department said any U.S. delegation would not discuss the withdrawal of U.S. troops as their presence in Iraq was “appropriate.”

- - -
Trump said in the Fox News interview that if Iraq wanted the United States to leave, he would tell them: “You have to pay us for the money we put in.”

He said the United States has $35 billion of Iraq’s money “sitting in an account.”

“I think they’ll agree to pay. Otherwise we’ll stay there,” Trump said.

[GuitarStv]

Psst.  Hey buddy.  Remember how we came into your country, blew everything up, threw out your leader, destroyed your police force and military, used your country as a jailhouse to illegally rape, torture, and murder middle easterners, allowed you to have democratic elections with only US approved candidates, then fucked off to let ISIS take over?  Bill's coming due!  Don't want to pay it?  I'd hate to have to break some of your fingers cultural sites . . .

[LennStar]

Agreed.  Trump isn't responsible for the plane being shot down.  That's on Iran.

But it would not have happened without the US attack. So yes, part of it goes to the US.

When we invaded Pakistan to kill Osama, we were actually sending troops into a nuclear armed country to target and kill a person.  That could easily have triggered events such as this plane being shot down, but luckily it didn't.

The difference is, of course, that Pakistan knew about it and it wasn't one of them that was targeted, but someone they wanted to get rid off too (to a certain amount, not high enough to get into a war with Al Queda)

Am I reading this correctly? Iraq’s parliament and prime minister have requested that the US withdraw, and the US is refusing to do so unless Iraq pays up, as per Trump (Reuters article).Washington spurns Iraqi call to remove troops

Or in other words illegal occupation, worse than Putin's of the Cremea?
Who cares?

[Travis]

Agreed.  Trump isn't responsible for the plane being shot down.  That's on Iran.

But it would not have happened without the US attack. So yes, part of it goes to the US.

They shot down a passenger plane taking off from their own capital city airport. Just because we did something to make them nervous doesn't excuse incompetence like that.

[talltexan]

What's going on with this "First Snow in Washington" tweet?

Did it actually snow there?

[Omy]

What's going on with this "First Snow in Washington" tweet?

Did it actually snow there?

No. It was almost 70 degrees. It's either gaslighting or incompetence.

[FIPurpose]

I'm in Washington State and today is the first snow I've seen for the season.

[talltexan]

Clearly he must have meant Washington State, whose state-house looks almost exactly like the White House that is in the picture accompanying the tweet.

[nereo]

Clearly he must have meant Washington State, whose state-house looks almost exactly like the White House that is in the picture accompanying the tweet.

So is it the WH or the state-house of Washington State in the photo? 

Seems like another lame and unimportant distraction, TBH.

[GuitarStv]

Clearly he must have meant Washington State, whose state-house looks almost exactly like the White House that is in the picture accompanying the tweet.

So is it the WH or the state-house of Washington State in the photo? 

Seems like another lame and unimportant distraction, TBH.

It's important to show everyone that climate change is a lie every time it snows somewhere in the world.  Otherwise people might get lured into believing facts and science.

[talltexan]

Clearly he must have meant Washington State, whose state-house looks almost exactly like the White House that is in the picture accompanying the tweet.

So is it the WH or the state-house of Washington State in the photo? 

Seems like another lame and unimportant distraction, TBH.

I have to own up that I went to Bing and looked for pictures of the Washington State Assembly house and this is not accurate.

[LennStar]

They shot down a passenger plane taking off from their own capital city airport. Just because we did something to make them nervous doesn't excuse incompetence like that.

I sincerely hope you never work on anything that is even loosely connected to risk assessing and mitigation.

btw. the US kills hundreds if not thousands of civilians every year in Afghanistan alone. And by US I mean per drone strike remote controlled by soldiers 10000km away who have no reason at all to fear that a missile will kill them in less than a minute if they don't shoot back now.

Human Error? Certainly. Incompetence? Maybe. Something to be seen as a possibility? Definitely.

@Topic:

WOW! Snow in January! Certainly proof that there is no climate change!

Why didn't he twittered "Christmas. Still no snow as we used to have when I was a boy. Shame on you Coal Industry! Shame on you Obama that you didn't stop this!"

[Travis]

They shot down a passenger plane taking off from their own capital city airport. Just because we did something to make them nervous doesn't excuse incompetence like that.

I sincerely hope you never work on anything that is even loosely connected to risk assessing and mitigation.

btw. the US kills hundreds if not thousands of civilians every year in Afghanistan alone. And by US I mean per drone strike remote controlled by soldiers 10000km away who have no reason at all to fear that a missile will kill them in less than a minute if they don't shoot back now.

Human Error? Certainly. Incompetence? Maybe. Something to be seen as a possibility? Definitely.

I deal in risk management all the time.  What does that have to do with this?  I also handle firearms on a daily basis.  If I were to walk outside and accidentally shoot my kid because I was upset that somebody else was throwing rocks at my house, I don't get to assign partial blame to anybody. It was my gun in my hands.

By the way, the Iranian people are holding their government solely responsible for the shoot down.  The Iranian president announced arrests of military personnel and didn't mention the US or President Trump.

[nereo]

They shot down a passenger plane taking off from their own capital city airport. Just because we did something to make them nervous doesn't excuse incompetence like that.

I sincerely hope you never work on anything that is even loosely connected to risk assessing and mitigation.

btw. the US kills hundreds if not thousands of civilians every year in Afghanistan alone. And by US I mean per drone strike remote controlled by soldiers 10000km away who have no reason at all to fear that a missile will kill them in less than a minute if they don't shoot back now.

Human Error? Certainly. Incompetence? Maybe. Something to be seen as a possibility? Definitely.

I deal in risk management all the time.  What does that have to do with this?  I also handle firearms on a daily basis.  If I were to walk outside and accidentally shoot my kid because I was upset that somebody else was throwing rocks at my house, I don't get to assign partial blame to anybody. It was my gun in my hands.

What you are describing is the legal definition of duress, which is frequently evoked as a mitigating circumstances for violent crimes. 

[Luke Warm]

anyone else find it weird that a government is taking responsibility for something they did wrong? almost like they were mature adults.

[OtherJen]

anyone else find it weird that a government is taking responsibility for something they did wrong? almost like they were mature adults.

Yes. For comparison, the White House on Trump’s tweeting of a bigoted, Photoshopped meme of Sen. Schumer and Rep. Pelosi:

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham defended Trump’s retweet of the image, telling Fox News on Monday that the tweet was intended to show Democrats "have been parroting Iranian talking points, and almost taking the side of terrorists and those who were out to kill the Americans."

Source: Muslim groups denounce Trump retweet of fake Pelosi-Schumer photo

[Glenstache]

anyone else find it weird that a government is taking responsibility for something they did wrong? almost like they were mature adults.

Yes. For comparison, the White House on Trump’s tweeting of a bigoted, Photoshopped meme of Sen. Schumer and Rep. Pelosi:

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham defended Trump’s retweet of the image, telling Fox News on Monday that the tweet was intended to show Democrats "have been parroting Iranian talking points, and almost taking the side of terrorists and those who were out to kill the Americans."

Source: Muslim groups denounce Trump retweet of fake Pelosi-Schumer photo

They really did a nice job of doubling down there.

[nereo]

Worth noting that the Iranian people are not the same as the Iranian regime.  Unlike in democracies and republics where the populace elects their leaders, Iran is a totalitarian state.

Regardless, I see a lot of people equating civilians to terrorists based solely on their nationality.  Given that the US struck first, what would that make us?

[GuitarStv]

Worth noting that the Iranian people are not the same as the Iranian regime.  Unlike in democracies and republics where the populace elects their leaders, Iran is a totalitarian state.

Regardless, I see a lot of people equating civilians to terrorists based solely on their nationality.  Given that the US struck first, what would that make us?

The US has a long history of terrorist acts.  So far, all signs point to this being yet another one.

To put it another way . . . imagine if Iran used a drone strike to kill George W Bush (guilty of war crimes related to the actions taken place under his time in power at Abu Grahib and Guantanamo Bay) and five other people with him in Texas.  Would anyone in the US see this as a fair and legal killing of a known criminal, responsible for many civilian deaths and the planned torture of civilians?

[talltexan]

@GuitarStv your hypothetical occurs in Texas, but Suleimani was killed in Iraq at a time when US forces were legally operating there.

[Psychstache]

Worth noting that the Iranian people are not the same as the Iranian regime.  Unlike in democracies and republics where the populace elects their leaders, Iran is a totalitarian state.

Regardless, I see a lot of people equating civilians to terrorists based solely on their nationality.  Given that the US struck first, what would that make us?

The US has a long history of terrorist acts.  So far, all signs point to this being yet another one.

To put it another way . . . imagine if Iran used a drone strike to kill George W Bush (guilty of war crimes related to the actions taken place under his time in power at Abu Grahib and Guantanamo Bay) and five other people with him in Texas.  Would anyone in the US see this as a fair and legal killing of a known criminal, responsible for many civilian deaths and the planned torture of civilians?

I think Donald Rumsfeld might be the more analogous example, but the point stands.

Edit: @talltexan then make it Rumsfeld doing a speaking engagement in Venezuela.

[John Galt incarnate!]

What effect does Roberts have on the proceedings? He's faced with history watching the SC more so than any of the Congresslings.

It is well known that Chief Justice Roberts is quite concerned about the Supreme Court's institutional reputation so I think  he will  exert his authority to its maximum in the interest of conducting  a trial  that  is  scrupulously fair congressional politics notwithstanding.

 The New York Times 1/14/20

“This [impeachment trial] in particular is so poisonous,” Professor Bowman said, “that he’s   going to be concerned that any perception of partiality to either side will potentially damage the institutional legitimacy of the court.”

[John Galt incarnate!]

What effect does Roberts have on the proceedings? He's faced with history watching the SC more so than any of the Congresslings.

It is well known that Chief Justice Roberts is quite concerned about the Supreme Court's institutional reputation so I think  he will  exert his authority to its maximum in the interest of conducting  a trial  that  is  scrupulously fair congressional politics notwithstanding.

The New York Times 1/14/20

“This [impeachment trial] in particular is so poisonous,” Professor Bowman said, “that he’s going to be concerned that any perception of partiality to either side will potentially damage the institutional legitimacy of the court.”

[nereo]

What effect does Roberts have on the proceedings? He's faced with history watching the SC more so than any of the Congresslings.

It is well known that Chief Justice Roberts is quite concerned about the Supreme Court's institutional reputation so I think  he will  exert his authority to its maximum in the interest of conducting  a trial  that  is  scrupulously fair congressional politics notwithstanding.

As Chief Justice Reinquest found out during Clinton’s impeachment trial, while the Chief Justice presides over the impeachment trial, the senate (i.e. McConnell) control everything. Roberts will have very little power, and cannot determine what evidence or witnesses are presented, how they are presented, who gets to question them or for how long.
 The New York Times 1/14/20

“This [impeachment trial] in particular is so poisonous,” Professor Bowman said, “that he’s (Chief Justice Roberts)  going to be concerned that any perception of partiality to either side will potentially damage the institutional legitimacy of the court.”

[John Galt incarnate!]

What effect does Roberts have on the proceedings? He's faced with history watching the SC more so than any of the Congresslings.

It is well known that Chief Justice Roberts is quite concerned about the Supreme Court's institutional reputation so I think  he will  exert his authority to its maximum in the interest of conducting  a trial  that  is  scrupulously fair congressional politics notwithstanding.

As Chief Justice Reinquest found out during Clinton’s impeachment trial, while the Chief Justice presides over the impeachment trial, the senate (i.e. McConnell) control everything. Roberts will have very little power, and cannot determine what evidence or witnesses are presented, how they are presented, who gets to question them or for how long.
 The New York Times 1/14/20

“This [impeachment trial] in particular is so poisonous,” Professor Bowman said, “that he’s  going to be concerned that any perception of partiality to either side will potentially damage the institutional legitimacy of the court.”

 C.J. Rehnquest's book was published in 1992 so he was supremely (awful pun) prepared to preside at Clinton's  trial by the Senate.

[six-car-habit]

 A few months ago - In one of the other off topic posts, i had put in a thought about Lev Parnas , Igor Fruman , and their business dealings with Guiliani, through the company called "Fraud Guarantee" -  .

  I just wanted to say, thanks Lev Parnas, for your previous offer of disclosing info, and now the judge's ruling making your records available to the House commitees today !!

[talltexan]

The Lev Parnas records do indeed look bad for Trump.

But we already see Susan Collins ("It wasn't part of the evidence delivered by the House") workshopping a way to message her "do not remove" vote despite it.

[OtherJen]

SO much winning. As of this morning, from PBS:

White House violated law in freezing Ukraine aid, watchdog says

The Government Accountability Office says the White House Office of Management and Budget violated the law in holding up the assistance. The freeze is at center of the impeachment of President Donald Trump.

Full report linked in the article.

[talltexan]

So--within 24 hours--House managers hand deliver the articles to the Senate, we have breaking news of the President directing a plot to stalk, intimidate, and possibly assault a sitting Ambassador, AND a GAO report comes out that the President's handling of the funds was indeed a violation of the law.

[OtherJen]

So--within 24 hours--House managers hand deliver the articles to the Senate, we have breaking news of the President directing a plot to stalk, intimidate, and possibly assault a sitting Ambassador, AND a GAO report comes out that the President's handling of the funds was indeed a violation of the law.

Don't forget this gem, also from this morning: Ukraine Investigates Reports of Surveillance of Marie Yovanovitch

The police in Ukraine have opened a criminal investigation into whether allies of President Trump had the United States ambassador to the country under surveillance while she was stationed in Kyiv, the Ukrainian government said on Thursday.

[bacchi]

It won't matter.

This will be wrapped up in 2 weeks. At the end, not only will Trump be "exonerated," but the Senate Republicans will applaud him for standing against the House Democrats.

[nereo]

It won't matter.

This will be wrapped up in 2 weeks. At the end, not only will Trump be "exonerated," but the Senate Republicans will applaud him for standing against the House Democrats.

...and it will get reeeeaaaalllly uncomfortable for every Republican in a purple/blue state, and every Dem in a red state.
To me, this feels as much about putting people on record as anything.  With 45 Dems + 2 Independents even the "four possible GOP swing voters" are woefully insufficient to get to the 67 needed for removal.

The truth keeps slowly leaking out, and the defense strategy seems to be about bottling this up as quickly as possible before yet more revelations are revealed.  Then they can use the defense "it's already been litigated!" the next time some new piece of evidence comes forward.

[FIPurpose]

It won't matter.

This will be wrapped up in 2 weeks. At the end, not only will Trump be "exonerated," but the Senate Republicans will applaud him for standing against the House Democrats.

...and it will get reeeeaaaalllly uncomfortable for every Republican in a purple/blue state, and every Dem in a red state.
To me, this feels as much about putting people on record as anything.  With 45 Dems + 2 Independents even the "four possible GOP swing voters" are woefully insufficient to get to the 67 needed for removal.

The truth keeps slowly leaking out, and the defense strategy seems to be about bottling this up as quickly as possible before yet more revelations are revealed.  Then they can use the defense "it's already been litigated!" the next time some new piece of evidence comes forward.

Collins is already putting feelers out there to try and say that the latest evidence isn't believable since it's simply too convenient

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/impeachment-step-forward-and-step-back-susan-collins

“I wonder why the House did not put that into the record and it’s only now being revealed,” Collins told reporters when asked if the evidence changes her view on the need to hear from additional witnesses in the forthcoming trial.

The problem with this response, as the senator probably ought to know, is that the House “only now” produced this evidence because the House only recently received it: after Parnas was criminally charged in a campaign-finance case, the Justice Department seized his electronic devices.

She's definitely getting voted out.

[talltexan]

Maine can elect Democrats. Collins has won there several times, she'll be a tougher out than McCaskill was in Missouri.

[nereo]

Colllins is one of my state senators.  Don't discount how many Trump supporters there are in this very rural, very impoverished, oldest-in-the-nation state.  Many of them are still extremely upset that Golden "stole" his seat from Bruce Poliquin due to ranked-choice voting. Sara Gideon isn't exactly primed to win rural voters over, coming from Freeport (aka "the other Maine").

Collins will have the first close re-election of her life.  but right now I'm giving her a 50/50 shot of holding on to her seat.  Money is pouring into the races from both sides in a way we've never seen before.  It's sure to get ugly.

[SomedayStache]

Is there a web-page that I can bookmark which summarizes Trump's verified offenses and lists his associates that have been jailed? I have an email box filled with random links and news articles I've emailed myself over the last few years and it's kind of all over the place. Looking for something that puts it all in one place.

I am family/friends with Trump supporters. Some are rabid and I won't be approaching them, but others are disappointed that he hasn't 'lived up to the office'. However, they consume fox news and when I mention things (like his repaying money he stole from a charity) that I feel they should have heard, they have not heard of it.

[PathtoFIRE]

While not personally verified by me, so take that in to account, saw someone report that the did a key word search on the Fox and Friends transcript from yesterday the morning after the Parnas evidence was released, and his name was not mentioned once.