Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 357707 times)

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4500 on: October 02, 2020, 06:43:48 AM »
What happened? I thought Hydroxychloroquine was the cure all for Covid-19? Also, Donald's buddy the My Pillow Guy has a cure for Covid-19 too.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/8/17/1970011/-Trump-is-boosting-another-miracle-COVID-19-cure-this-one-brought-to-him-by-the-My-Pillow-guy

How could Donald possibly get Covid-19 when he had the cure(s) all along?

Iím not yet convinced heís telling the truth about the COVID tests. Heís had a disastrous week in terms of PR, and apparently thereís a tell-all book about Melanie set for release. He lies about everything else, and this would be a convenient time for them to hunker down for a bit and play the victims to garner sympathy.

except.... Trump has never been one to 'hunker down' when news is bad.  His MO has always been to hit back, be aggressive, etc. 
I just don't see him agreeing to fake an illness he's spent months downplaying and avoiding.

Or - looked at another way, what kind of person is most likely to contract the virus?  One that constantly attends large gatherings of largely unmasked people and who eschews the accepted social distancing guidelines?  Does that sound like anyone who's constantly in the news?
Frankly I'm a bit surprised he's gone this long before catching Covid.

Donald may feel painted into a corner and knows he is floundering in the election. He can't file bankruptcy on the presidency so maybe this is his way of getting out of Dodge. He would rather blame an illness than admit defeat. He could just say he is too sick to carry on, resign to save face before losing the election.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4501 on: October 02, 2020, 06:47:33 AM »
Hmm when I first heard he twittered he and Melania had positive tests for Covid my first reaction is, he's lying. Just like I was extremely skeptical he took those injections. Plus he and Melania testing positive would be something that is potentially of national security concern; it's not going to be tweeted! But now it's being reported in the news. So maybe it's a peter and the wolves situation x100. Still don't know what to think. Is Trump capable of lying about something like this? Yes. Would the White house go along w the lie? I don't think so? Another part of me is wtf. Even if Trump acts irresponsible, why are other members of his team, family members walking around, interacting with people not wearing masks? 
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 08:07:34 AM by partgypsy »

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4502 on: October 02, 2020, 06:52:29 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

rantk81

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4503 on: October 02, 2020, 06:56:35 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

Well it's a product of us hearing a constant stream of lies for 4 years... what do you expect?

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4504 on: October 02, 2020, 06:58:58 AM »
Half of us wonder if it is a hoax because Donald has done nothing but lie for close to 4 years as president. So, when someone has a bad case of Pinocchio-itis, it is hard to believe a word that comes out of their mouth.

Davnasty

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4505 on: October 02, 2020, 07:00:50 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

Well it's a product of us hearing a constant stream of lies for 4 years... what do you expect?

I think it was a misdirection joke.

GreenEggs

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4506 on: October 02, 2020, 07:01:56 AM »
Of course this could easily be a Trump hoax.  But I'd rather believe it's an "act of God".  Let's all keep praying for him.  :)


MAGA!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4507 on: October 02, 2020, 07:21:38 AM »
Let's all keep praying for him.

You mean continue praying for him?  I suspect that many prayers have been answered already . . .

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4508 on: October 02, 2020, 08:31:33 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word. 

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4509 on: October 02, 2020, 08:41:35 AM »
I can see the Trump fans: Biological attack by ANTIFA!!!

Maybe Trump simply did not want to have another debate because his only available tactic failed?

And what happens if one candidate dies close to election? Is there a second in position that takes over for the Reps?

And what happens if Trump wins but has late damage from it that does theoretically not prevent him from doing his job but effectivly does? Like the fatigue syndrom?
It would likely be better for the world if he doesn't do anything, but I am wondering about the legal side. Can the senate (or has to) kick him out? What when the Reps don't do it?

The 25th amendment provides a clear path for the senate to remove the President - permanently or temporarily - should he prove mentally unable to continue his duties.  However, its on the senate to act, and to date the GOP has served as a defensive shield around DJT.  In that case Pence would become President.

Should a candidate die before the electoral college meets, the electors (remember - they actually vote for the President, not the people) can vote for whomever they wish.  This actually happened once in our history, when Grant was elected (Challenger Greenley died).

If a candidate dies before the general election, the party can nominate whomever they wish (and have rules in place for doing so).  Ballots already cast automatically (I believe) then count for the new nominee.

Should an elected president die before assuming power it becomes more complicated.  Many interpret the constitution as saying the rules of succession apply, so the VP-elect will then become the Prez-elect (e.g. Harris or Pence).  But it would almost certainly wind up in front of SCOTUS.

It's actually worse than that. The 25th amendment requires a majority of the cabinet and VP to declare the President unfit. If the President refuses to step down, then it requires a 2/3 vote of both the House and Senate.

So yeah, the 25th amendment was never happening. The President would have to have a full blown stroke and go into a vegetative state for the 25th to be invoked.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4510 on: October 02, 2020, 08:48:15 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

I still come back to Occam's razor.
Which is simpler?  that - during a pandemic - a person who forgoes social distancing and comes into contact with dozens of unmasked people every day contracts the virus?   
or that he, Hope Hicks, his doctor, the first lady and who knows how many others are lying to reverse course on a disease they have spent 8+ months publicly downplaying in the hopes of gaining sympathy from a few without alienating his base that still refuse to wear makss and think this is a hoax only to somehow emerge in a couple weeks  with a new angle on Covid, all the while keeping in mind that Trump's tendency has always been to double and triple down when confronted with evidence that contradicts his statements (here:  Covid is a grave national threat).

The former is just probability of catching a highly communicable disease during a pandemic.

The latter involves coordinated lying (in itself legally dodgy), a multi-week political plan, a complete reversal of his rhetoric on Covid and a defiance of his base who overwhelmingly downplay the seriousness of Covid.

Freedom2016

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4511 on: October 02, 2020, 08:50:29 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

I still come back to Occam's razor.
Which is simpler?  that - during a pandemic - a person who forgoes social distancing and comes into contact with dozens of unmasked people every day contracts the virus?   
or that he, Hope Hicks, his doctor, the first lady and who knows how many others are lying to reverse course on a disease they have spent 8+ months publicly downplaying in the hopes of gaining sympathy from a few without alienating his base that still refuse to wear makss and think this is a hoax only to somehow emerge in a couple weeks  with a new angle on Covid, all the while keeping in mind that Trump's tendency has always been to double and triple down when confronted with evidence that contradicts his statements (here:  Covid is a grave national threat).

The former is just probability of catching a highly communicable disease during a pandemic.

The latter involves coordinated lying (in itself legally dodgy), a multi-week political plan, a complete reversal of his rhetoric on Covid and a defiance of his base who overwhelmingly downplay the seriousness of Covid.

+1000

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4512 on: October 02, 2020, 08:59:44 AM »
I can see the Trump fans: Biological attack by ANTIFA!!!

Maybe Trump simply did not want to have another debate because his only available tactic failed?

And what happens if one candidate dies close to election? Is there a second in position that takes over for the Reps?

And what happens if Trump wins but has late damage from it that does theoretically not prevent him from doing his job but effectivly does? Like the fatigue syndrom?
It would likely be better for the world if he doesn't do anything, but I am wondering about the legal side. Can the senate (or has to) kick him out? What when the Reps don't do it?

The 25th amendment provides a clear path for the senate to remove the President - permanently or temporarily - should he prove mentally unable to continue his duties.  However, its on the senate to act, and to date the GOP has served as a defensive shield around DJT.  In that case Pence would become President.

Should a candidate die before the electoral college meets, the electors (remember - they actually vote for the President, not the people) can vote for whomever they wish.  This actually happened once in our history, when Grant was elected (Challenger Greenley died).

If a candidate dies before the general election, the party can nominate whomever they wish (and have rules in place for doing so).  Ballots already cast automatically (I believe) then count for the new nominee.

Should an elected president die before assuming power it becomes more complicated.  Many interpret the constitution as saying the rules of succession apply, so the VP-elect will then become the Prez-elect (e.g. Harris or Pence).  But it would almost certainly wind up in front of SCOTUS.

It's actually worse than that. The 25th amendment requires a majority of the cabinet and VP to declare the President unfit. If the President refuses to step down, then it requires a 2/3 vote of both the House and Senate.

So yeah, the 25th amendment was never happening. The President would have to have a full blown stroke and go into a vegetative state for the 25th to be invoked.

Agreed and thanks for the additional context.  Mostly I was answering the question about what mechanism(s) exist for removing a sitting president besides impeachment.  It's such an intentionally high bar that anything short of near or complete incapacitation is unlikely to remove an elected president from office... and that's probably how it should be.  Presently at least 14 GOP senators would need to defect to forceably remove him from office, when there miiiiiight be 4 willing to do so.
One plausable scenario might be if Trump were to wind up on a ventilator, or have a stroke severe enough that he could no longer speak.  I'm not hoping for any of those, mind  you... I wouild like him soundly defeated in a fair election, losing both the popular vote and the EC 'bigly'.  Nothing short of a convincing loss by Trump will make him and his supporters yelling about everything being 'rigged.'  I mean, they will regardless (even if he wins) - but it will kinda take the sting out of their argument if Biden gets 10MM more votes and carries FL, PA, WI, MI, OH and NC.

Samuel

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4513 on: October 02, 2020, 09:05:20 AM »
Even with his age and other elevated risk factors there's an excellent chance he shrugs this off pretty quickly. He's tested all the time so they caught it very early and he has the best medical care available.

It could go sideways, of course, but the most likely outcome is that Trump emerges before too long saying, "See, it's not that big a deal. Certainly not worth crashing our economy over with widespread lockdowns which is all a Libtard plan to hurt my re-election campaign". If it doesn't kill him he'll try to turn it to his advantage.


 

GreenEggs

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4514 on: October 02, 2020, 09:09:35 AM »
Even with his age and other elevated risk factors there's an excellent chance he shrugs this off pretty quickly. He's tested all the time so they caught it very early and he has the best medical care available.

It could go sideways, of course, but the most likely outcome is that Trump emerges before too long saying, "See, it's not that big a deal. Certainly not worth crashing our economy over with widespread lockdowns which is all a Libtard plan to hurt my re-election campaign". If it doesn't kill him he'll try to turn it to his advantage.


Let's hope he's burned enough bridges with the medical world.  I mean 95%+ of doctors realize 200,000 deaths is a big deal.

sixwings

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4515 on: October 02, 2020, 09:12:12 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

Sure, if it was february maybe he could do it. But there's 4 weeks until the election, he's out for 2 of them. He can't reinvent himself in 2 weeks.

Plus this always happens with Trump, maybe this is the time he privots!, maybe this is the time he becomes presidential, maybe this is the time he becomes sympathetic. Nah.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4516 on: October 02, 2020, 09:16:09 AM »
Even with his age and other elevated risk factors there's an excellent chance he shrugs this off pretty quickly. He's tested all the time so they caught it very early and he has the best medical care available.

I don't know how much early detection and the best medical care will matter here.  Per the CDC, there's no specific anti-viral treatment recommended for Covid, and early care is about minimizing  symptoms.  Yeah, treating symptoms early before they become complicating factors can be important... but to a first degree the virus is just going to run its course and there's not a hell of a lot that can prevent him from getting very sick, if that's how the virus reacts in his body.

Once a person is infected the virus can't be stopped (yet)

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4517 on: October 02, 2020, 09:30:30 AM »
Even with his age and other elevated risk factors there's an excellent chance he shrugs this off pretty quickly. He's tested all the time so they caught it very early and he has the best medical care available.

It could go sideways, of course, but the most likely outcome is that Trump emerges before too long saying, "See, it's not that big a deal. Certainly not worth crashing our economy over with widespread lockdowns which is all a Libtard plan to hurt my re-election campaign". If it doesn't kill him he'll try to turn it to his advantage.

Let's hope he's burned enough bridges with the medical world.  I mean 95%+ of doctors realize 200,000 deaths is a big deal.

"Ew" to this comment. Also Doctors help everyone, regardless of how evil the individual is. I too would like him to fully recover, and then receive an absolute historic body-slamming in the election.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 09:32:10 AM by sherr »

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4518 on: October 02, 2020, 09:31:28 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

I still come back to Occam's razor.
Which is simpler?  that - during a pandemic - a person who forgoes social distancing and comes into contact with dozens of unmasked people every day contracts the virus?   
or that he, Hope Hicks, his doctor, the first lady and who knows how many others are lying to reverse course on a disease they have spent 8+ months publicly downplaying in the hopes of gaining sympathy from a few without alienating his base that still refuse to wear makss and think this is a hoax only to somehow emerge in a couple weeks  with a new angle on Covid, all the while keeping in mind that Trump's tendency has always been to double and triple down when confronted with evidence that contradicts his statements (here:  Covid is a grave national threat).

The former is just probability of catching a highly communicable disease during a pandemic.

The latter involves coordinated lying (in itself legally dodgy), a multi-week political plan, a complete reversal of his rhetoric on Covid and a defiance of his base who overwhelmingly downplay the seriousness of Covid.

You could just as easily Occam the other way - Trump is losing after the first debate in almost every battleground state and after nominating his Supreme Court justice.  There really aren't any paths left to electoral college (much less popular vote) victory for the guy, just by holding rallies and only two debates left.  Parscale left, so his campaign is run by...  Trump?  Republicans might already be turning on him.

He's been living a 'risky' pandemic lifestyle (esp. not wearing masks) ever since this thing began and has maintained his bubble successfully, so it is LESS likely he caught the disease now than months ago. 

But a minor bout of Covid, maybe slowing him down for 6 days (aides are already calling it 'mild', with Trump continuing to work from the White House) will only help him re-boot his campaign.  Maybe he has to give up a few rallies with his committed base, that's about it.   

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4519 on: October 02, 2020, 09:33:29 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

hahahahahaha!!!!! at any sentence that includes both "Trump" and "humble".  The man is incapable of appearing humble.

meghan88

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4520 on: October 02, 2020, 09:41:51 AM »
It's amazing how he sucks the air out of the room, whatever he does.  He's like P.T. Barnum on steroids.  He keeps everyone off balance wondering what's next, and makes people forget about things like the tax returns, damaging tell-all memoirs, etc. etc.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4521 on: October 02, 2020, 10:11:42 AM »
It's amazing how he sucks the air out of the room, whatever he does.  He's like P.T. Barnum on steroids.  He keeps everyone off balance wondering what's next, and makes people forget about things like the tax returns, damaging tell-all memoirs, etc. etc.

There is a reason this is the Trump Outrage of the Day thread.  Last week is ancient history with him, it gets buried so fast.

shuffler

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4522 on: October 02, 2020, 10:24:10 AM »
Favorite quip I've read so far:

ďJustice Ginsberg successfully petitions God in her first appearanceĒ.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4523 on: October 02, 2020, 10:25:11 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

I still come back to Occam's razor.
Which is simpler?  that - during a pandemic - a person who forgoes social distancing and comes into contact with dozens of unmasked people every day contracts the virus?   
or that he, Hope Hicks, his doctor, the first lady and who knows how many others are lying to reverse course on a disease they have spent 8+ months publicly downplaying in the hopes of gaining sympathy from a few without alienating his base that still refuse to wear makss and think this is a hoax only to somehow emerge in a couple weeks  with a new angle on Covid, all the while keeping in mind that Trump's tendency has always been to double and triple down when confronted with evidence that contradicts his statements (here:  Covid is a grave national threat).

The former is just probability of catching a highly communicable disease during a pandemic.

The latter involves coordinated lying (in itself legally dodgy), a multi-week political plan, a complete reversal of his rhetoric on Covid and a defiance of his base who overwhelmingly downplay the seriousness of Covid.

You could just as easily Occam the other way - Trump is losing after the first debate in almost every battleground state and after nominating his Supreme Court justice.  There really aren't any paths left to electoral college (much less popular vote) victory for the guy, just by holding rallies and only two debates left.  Parscale left, so his campaign is run by...  Trump?  Republicans might already be turning on him.

He's been living a 'risky' pandemic lifestyle (esp. not wearing masks) ever since this thing began and has maintained his bubble successfully, so it is LESS likely he caught the disease now than months ago. 

But a minor bout of Covid, maybe slowing him down for 6 days (aides are already calling it 'mild', with Trump continuing to work from the White House) will only help him re-boot his campaign.  Maybe he has to give up a few rallies with his committed base, that's about it.   

I've never heard Occam used as a verb before.
Regardless, that doesn't seem simpler to me. Nor does it follow Trump's well-established nature to fight, to be the aggressor, and to show no weakness. He's routinely lied about his health and has lied about an unplanned (emergency?) medical visit to Walter Reed last November. To have open discussion among his staff about being ill is definitely not normal (for him).

The fact that his Chief of Staff has said Trump is already showing 'mild symptoms' is concerning, given he was (as best we can understand) exposed sometime in the last 72 hours.  Often it takes 10-14 days for the severity of the illness to become apparent in a patient.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4524 on: October 02, 2020, 10:32:17 AM »
Does anyone find it a bit strange that Donald tweeted he and wife had Covid-19 at 12:54 am, today, Oct. 2nd and shortly there after at 1:27 am Melania tweeted and also confirmed they had it.

Why did they feel it was necessary to announce this in the middle of the night?

When Donald went to the hospital last fall, we never found out why he went. It was a big secret. Now, he has Covid, that he has been down playing all year long as a hoax. As fast as he supposedly got the news he and she have it, they felt the need to announce it to the world.

Something seems fishy to me. This seems like a classic diversion tactic Donald would pull.

MilesTeg

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4525 on: October 02, 2020, 10:54:46 AM »
Does anyone find it a bit strange that Donald tweeted he and wife had Covid-19 at 12:54 am, today, Oct. 2nd and shortly there after at 1:27 am Melania tweeted and also confirmed they had it.

Why did they feel it was necessary to announce this in the middle of the night?

When Donald went to the hospital last fall, we never found out why he went. It was a big secret. Now, he has Covid, that he has been down playing all year long as a hoax. As fast as he supposedly got the news he and she have it, they felt the need to announce it to the world.

Something seems fishy to me. This seems like a classic diversion tactic Donald would pull.

I'm firmly in the camp that this is a ploy of some kind. I'm not machiavellin enough to figure it out, but I smell it. Perhaps a desperate attempt to boost his campaign (the Chinese virus is no biggie!); perhaps a way to excuse a loss (if only I didn't get sick...); perhaps how the GOP is orchestrating him exiting the race; etc.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4526 on: October 02, 2020, 10:59:59 AM »
To quote josh raby on Twitter this morning: I think itís really depressing that the President of the United States can contract a deadly virus and all half of you can do is wonder if itís a hoax meant to help his sagging Campaign rather than showing some humanity and simply enjoying the hell out of it like the rest of us.

This is where the sympathy ploy comes from though.  Once Trump miraculously gets better, he can re-invent himself as a sympathetic character that at least appears more humble and human and can swing some independents that see the 'evil left' as hoping for Trump's death.  It's called the 'Boris Johnson' maneuver, except Trump never actually had Covid.  And because of patient - doctor confidentiality, the American public will have to take him at his word.

I still come back to Occam's razor.
Which is simpler?  that - during a pandemic - a person who forgoes social distancing and comes into contact with dozens of unmasked people every day contracts the virus?   
or that he, Hope Hicks, his doctor, the first lady and who knows how many others are lying to reverse course on a disease they have spent 8+ months publicly downplaying in the hopes of gaining sympathy from a few without alienating his base that still refuse to wear makss and think this is a hoax only to somehow emerge in a couple weeks  with a new angle on Covid, all the while keeping in mind that Trump's tendency has always been to double and triple down when confronted with evidence that contradicts his statements (here:  Covid is a grave national threat).

The former is just probability of catching a highly communicable disease during a pandemic.

The latter involves coordinated lying (in itself legally dodgy), a multi-week political plan, a complete reversal of his rhetoric on Covid and a defiance of his base who overwhelmingly downplay the seriousness of Covid.

You could just as easily Occam the other way - Trump is losing after the first debate in almost every battleground state and after nominating his Supreme Court justice.  There really aren't any paths left to electoral college (much less popular vote) victory for the guy, just by holding rallies and only two debates left.  Parscale left, so his campaign is run by...  Trump?  Republicans might already be turning on him.

He's been living a 'risky' pandemic lifestyle (esp. not wearing masks) ever since this thing began and has maintained his bubble successfully, so it is LESS likely he caught the disease now than months ago. 

But a minor bout of Covid, maybe slowing him down for 6 days (aides are already calling it 'mild', with Trump continuing to work from the White House) will only help him re-boot his campaign.  Maybe he has to give up a few rallies with his committed base, that's about it.   

I've never heard Occam used as a verb before.
Regardless, that doesn't seem simpler to me. Nor does it follow Trump's well-established nature to fight, to be the aggressor, and to show no weakness. He's routinely lied about his health and has lied about an unplanned (emergency?) medical visit to Walter Reed last November. To have open discussion among his staff about being ill is definitely not normal (for him).

The fact that his Chief of Staff has said Trump is already showing 'mild symptoms' is concerning, given he was (as best we can understand) exposed sometime in the last 72 hours.  Often it takes 10-14 days for the severity of the illness to become apparent in a patient.

Just quickly pointing out that is not a correct time to apply Occam's Razor.  We have been told repeatedly (and shown in numerous scandals) that Trump will do anything in order to win this election.  His currently ploy to cast doubt on voting and stir up distrust in the outcome of the election, quite possibly to get it into the courts, shows that.

Occam's Razor is for when you have all of the facts and clarity around what happened / is happening.  Throw in even one lie and Occam's Razor can be especially misleading (e.g. it could contribute to the simplest explanation, although it is a lie).
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 11:02:39 AM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4527 on: October 02, 2020, 11:03:34 AM »
Here is some more food for thought. Donald has to quarantine for 2 weeks.

Biden just tested negative for Covid-19.

Does that mean because Biden was exposed to the virus, via Donald, does that mean he has to quarantine for 2 weeks as well? If so, that could be part of the ploy. Biden is supposed to be in Grand Rapids, Michigan today. I wonder if he will have to cancel.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4528 on: October 02, 2020, 11:12:55 AM »
Here is some more food for thought. Donald has to quarantine for 2 weeks.

Biden just tested negative for Covid-19.

Does that mean because Biden was exposed to the virus, via Donald, does that mean he has to quarantine for 2 weeks as well? If so, that could be part of the ploy. Biden is supposed to be in Grand Rapids, Michigan today. I wonder if he will have to cancel.

well, first, they are guidelines, not laws.  People (including Biden and Trump) are still free to do what they want, regardless of the recommendations.

Second, at least in my state ) a negative Covid test 2 days after suspected exposure can be used in lieu of a 14-day quarantine period.

Lastly, it's not even clear that Biden meets the CDC definition of what constitutes "potential exposure", which is: a close contact is anyone who was within 6 feet of an infected person for at least 15 minutes.  Other than very briefly (a few seconds), I'm not sure that Biden ever came within 6 feet of Trump.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4529 on: October 02, 2020, 11:23:59 AM »
Here is some more food for thought. Donald has to quarantine for 2 weeks.

Biden just tested negative for Covid-19.

Does that mean because Biden was exposed to the virus, via Donald, does that mean he has to quarantine for 2 weeks as well? If so, that could be part of the ploy. Biden is supposed to be in Grand Rapids, Michigan today. I wonder if he will have to cancel.

well, first, they are guidelines, not laws.  People (including Biden and Trump) are still free to do what they want, regardless of the recommendations.

Second, at least in my state ) a negative Covid test 2 days after suspected exposure can be used in lieu of a 14-day quarantine period.

Lastly, it's not even clear that Biden meets the CDC definition of what constitutes "potential exposure", which is: a close contact is anyone who was within 6 feet of an infected person for at least 15 minutes.  Other than very briefly (a few seconds), I'm not sure that Biden ever came within 6 feet of Trump.

Trump, admitting covid, also stands to lose more than Biden. They both have to sit out but Trump has been the "immune" alpha male who eschews masks.

1) If he kept it secret and continued to go to events, that would look really bad when it leaked. He would've been knowingly endangering people.
2) If he kept it secret and canceled/delayed events, it would look very suspicious. He'd either become a cowering President, afraid to go to the debates, or everyone would know he has covid. Or worse.

The only good option for Trump was to release the news and then play it off as no big deal.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4530 on: October 02, 2020, 11:25:32 AM »
On to the next outrage!

After learning that Hope Hicks had tested postive for Covid, Trump decided to go ahead with a fundraiser in NJ Wednesday evening.  This despite having spent considerable time with Ms Hicks over the previous several days.

Basically, after learning that he was potentially exposed he rejected the CDC's guidelines and 1) traveled to 2) meet with supporters while 3) not wearing a mask.

Trump the super-spreader?

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4531 on: October 02, 2020, 11:27:36 AM »
Guys, this is not some massive conspiracy/deception.  Hope Hicks got it, Trump + first lady got it, some RNC lady announced she has it, and Senator Mike Lee has just announced he has it.  It's a bunch of people hanging out together not wearing masks during a pandemic.  Totally predictable consequence, and I expect more positives to follow.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4532 on: October 02, 2020, 11:30:50 AM »
Guys, this is not some massive conspiracy/deception.  Hope Hicks got it, Trump + first lady got it, some RNC lady announced she has it, and Senator Mike Lee has just announced he has it.  It's a bunch of people hanging out together not wearing masks during a pandemic.  Totally predictable consequence, and I expect more positives to follow.

I'll believe it in 1 - 2 weeks time.  Trump has lied to me enough that I deserve the right to reserve trusting him until reality plays out.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4533 on: October 02, 2020, 11:32:55 AM »
You guys are disgusting! No empathy at all! It needs a German to help Trump with some Thoughts and Prayers!

https://twitter.com/PoLILYtik/status/1312062828514246659

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4534 on: October 02, 2020, 11:41:08 AM »
He's routinely lied about his health and has lied about an unplanned (emergency?) medical visit to Walter Reed last November. To have open discussion among his staff about being ill is definitely not normal (for him).

The fact that his Chief of Staff has said Trump is already showing 'mild symptoms' is concerning, given he was (as best we can understand) exposed sometime in the last 72 hours.  Often it takes 10-14 days for the severity of the illness to become apparent in a patient.

Not really related, but I feel it important to remind everyone that not only does Trump have a history of lying about his health, he does it in hilarious and unconvincing ways.

[Media]: We have uncovered that Trump was recently taken to Walter Reed Medical Center for unknown reasons.

[Trump]: No I did NOT just have a series of mini-strokes! The fake news media is lying about me again!

[Everyone]: ???

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4535 on: October 02, 2020, 11:42:38 AM »
You guys are disgusting! No empathy at all! It needs a German to help Trump with some Thoughts and Prayers!

https://twitter.com/PoLILYtik/status/1312062828514246659

Far from disgusting. Thoughts and prayers are given to those who deserve it.

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4536 on: October 02, 2020, 11:48:10 AM »
Guys, this is not some massive conspiracy/deception.  Hope Hicks got it, Trump + first lady got it, some RNC lady announced she has it, and Senator Mike Lee has just announced he has it.  It's a bunch of people hanging out together not wearing masks during a pandemic.  Totally predictable consequence, and I expect more positives to follow.

I'll believe it in 1 - 2 weeks time.  Trump has lied to me enough that I deserve the right to reserve trusting him until reality plays out.

Fair enough; he is an incorrigible liar.

v8rx7guy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4537 on: October 02, 2020, 11:49:39 AM »
Trump is a firm believer in "any publicity is good publicity".  I think it's a publicity stunt.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4538 on: October 02, 2020, 12:01:18 PM »
You guys are disgusting! No empathy at all! It needs a German to help Trump with some Thoughts and Prayers!

https://twitter.com/PoLILYtik/status/1312062828514246659

Far from disgusting. Thoughts and prayers are given to those who deserve it.

You missed the sarcasm. Many here see americans always  posting about thoughts and prayers as a response to any catastrophe and then not doing anything else, such as changing legislation to prevent mass shootings or giving relief help. I guess the germans have a similar view of your habits.

dandarc

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4539 on: October 02, 2020, 12:12:57 PM »
Many here in the US see that as well. Mostly the conservatives that do that, although we basically don't have a left wing in this country, let alone one that has gotten power recently.

That's conservatism in the United States today - except for cutting taxes and fucking over marginalized groups every way they can think of, "welp we can't do much".
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 12:17:10 PM by dandarc »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4540 on: October 02, 2020, 12:15:58 PM »
On to the next outrage!

After learning that Hope Hicks had tested postive for Covid, Trump decided to go ahead with a fundraiser in NJ Wednesday evening.  This despite having spent considerable time with Ms Hicks over the previous several days.

Basically, after learning that he was potentially exposed he rejected the CDC's guidelines and 1) traveled to 2) meet with supporters while 3) not wearing a mask.

Trump the super-spreader?

Yep. It seems like he was in the most contagious presymptomatic phase at Bedminster and knew he'd been directly exposed. The level of irresponsibility and disregard for others would be appalling in anyone else. In him, it's just Thursday.

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4541 on: October 02, 2020, 01:28:43 PM »
On to the next outrage!

After learning that Hope Hicks had tested postive for Covid, Trump decided to go ahead with a fundraiser in NJ Wednesday evening.  This despite having spent considerable time with Ms Hicks over the previous several days.

Basically, after learning that he was potentially exposed he rejected the CDC's guidelines and 1) traveled to 2) meet with supporters while 3) not wearing a mask.

Trump the super-spreader?

Yep. It seems like he was in the most contagious presymptomatic phase at Bedminster and knew he'd been directly exposed. The level of irresponsibility and disregard for others would be appalling in anyone else. In him, it's just Thursday.
All true, but also I suspect that it shows just how desperate for money his campaign is, that he felt he couldn't afford not to go to the fundraiser.

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4542 on: October 02, 2020, 02:22:05 PM »
I think by assuming very few actually watch the debates to learn anything we are letting our own, politically active experiences bias our views.  Most Americans simply donít pay attention to politics most of the time. Itís shocking (to us politically minded folks), but a large percentage canít name the latest Supreme Court nominee, or a single cabinet member, or even who the VP is.
I agree my own experiences would be biasing my view for sure.  I still don't think many watch the debate because they actually want to know the thoughts, views, and policy platforms of the candidates.  As you say, most Americans don't pay attention to politics most of the time.  The ones that actually do care about what the candidates have to say are the ones paying attention.  The rest are tuning in for other reasons.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4543 on: October 02, 2020, 03:05:15 PM »

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4544 on: October 02, 2020, 03:27:58 PM »
So how do the rest of us get this shot?

https://nypost.com/2020/10/02/trump-infused-with-polyclonal-antibodies-to-fight-covid-19/

You just need to be born with a multi-billionaire father, fail at every business you ever started, and then get elected president.

It's a completely fair procedure.  Everyone who meets the above qualifications gets it.

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4545 on: October 02, 2020, 03:30:10 PM »
So how do the rest of us get this shot?

https://nypost.com/2020/10/02/trump-infused-with-polyclonal-antibodies-to-fight-covid-19/

You just need to be born with a multi-billionaire father, fail at every business you ever started, and then get elected president.

It's a completely fair procedure.  Everyone who meets the above qualifications gets it.

Does he drink the bleach before or after the shot?

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4546 on: October 02, 2020, 03:31:25 PM »
So how do the rest of us get this shot?

https://nypost.com/2020/10/02/trump-infused-with-polyclonal-antibodies-to-fight-covid-19/

The President is taking a medication that has only been tested on 275 people?  I thought for sure he'd be on Remdesivir or Convalescent Plasma...

Of course, what I read about REGN-COV2 fits well with a story of Trump recovering before the end of next week in an outpatient setting.

I also particularly liked Putin's telegram to Trump -
Quote
I am certain that your inherent vitality, good spirits and optimism will help you cope with this dangerous virus
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 03:55:31 PM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4547 on: October 02, 2020, 03:45:55 PM »
Huh. Heís at Walter Reed.

dandarc

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4548 on: October 02, 2020, 03:46:57 PM »
He also stopped tweeting - it's real bad folks.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4549 on: October 02, 2020, 03:54:36 PM »
Huh. Heís at Walter Reed.

I really should hold my judgement on the veracity of this until the end of next week.  The initial details are incredibly sketchy - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/10/02/trump-tests-positive-coronavirus-reader-questions-answers/5893893002/