Trump outrage of the day

[nereo]

Hmmm.  I was just referring to Trump's history of pussy grabbing and applying it to a person of the same gender . . . why do you assume that homosexuality somehow debases a person?

I don't see homosexuality as something insulting, sorry.

That's not what Nereo is saying. And I also found your original comment uncomfortable.

No, that is exactly what he's talking about.  He was very explicit.

Nereo first said that it is debasing to say that a person may act upon homosexual feelings.  Then he argued that even implying a person could be gay is an insult to that person.  Frankly, neither sit well with me.
 There's nothing wrong with being gay or acting in a gay manner - it's perfectly normal.  So where is the insult / debasement?

I've been thinking a lot about this.  Either being gay is something bad/wrong as Nereo argues (which would make my initial comment an insult) or it's perfectly OK to be gay and nothing I said was wrong.  You can't really have it both ways.  If we were discussing Michelle Pence, and Trump wanting to grab her in heterosexual fervor . . . then there would be no problem.  Why?  Because heterosexuality is not dirty/insulting/debasing.  But neither is homosexuality!

Really, the uncomfortable part should be the lack of consent bit - something that Trump has always been happy to brag about.

Am I out to lunch on this (I often am)?  Does treating homosexuality the same way as heterosexuality make me a homophobe as Nereo argued?

If you would like to continue this conversation, feel free to PM me. I don't want to derail this too much longer.
But No, that is not at all what I was saying.

This is a thread discussing Trump's latest outrage (inherently negative things). There is absolutely no indication of homoerotic actions occuring between Mike Pence and Donald Trump, so to combine the two (criticisms of Trump) with suggestions of homoerotic behavior comes off as gay slander.

Let's put it this way: saying "Brokeback Mountain is a story which involves the homoerotic emotion" is both true and fine.  Suggesting two leaders you don't like must be engaging in homoerotic emotion is not, because it ties an inherent dislike of two people with being gay.  It links homosexuality with a negative connotation. Does that make sense?

[GuitarStv]

Hmmm.  I was just referring to Trump's history of pussy grabbing and applying it to a person of the same gender . . . why do you assume that homosexuality somehow debases a person?

I don't see homosexuality as something insulting, sorry.

That's not what Nereo is saying. And I also found your original comment uncomfortable.

No, that is exactly what he's talking about.  He was very explicit.

Nereo first said that it is debasing to say that a person may act upon homosexual feelings.  Then he argued that even implying a person could be gay is an insult to that person.  Frankly, neither sit well with me.
 There's nothing wrong with being gay or acting in a gay manner - it's perfectly normal.  So where is the insult / debasement?

I've been thinking a lot about this.  Either being gay is something bad/wrong as Nereo argues (which would make my initial comment an insult) or it's perfectly OK to be gay and nothing I said was wrong.  You can't really have it both ways.  If we were discussing Michelle Pence, and Trump wanting to grab her in heterosexual fervor . . . then there would be no problem.  Why?  Because heterosexuality is not dirty/insulting/debasing.  But neither is homosexuality!

Really, the uncomfortable part should be the lack of consent bit - something that Trump has always been happy to brag about.

Am I out to lunch on this (I often am)?  Does treating homosexuality the same way as heterosexuality make me a homophobe as Nereo argued?

If you would like to continue this conversation, feel free to PM me. I don't want to derail this too much longer.
But No, that is not at all what I was saying.

This is a thread discussing Trump's latest outrage (inherently negative things). There is absolutely no indication of homoerotic actions occuring between Mike Pence and Donald Trump, so to combine the two (criticisms of Trump) with suggestions of homoerotic behavior comes off as gay slander.

Let's put it this way: saying "Brokeback Mountain is a story which involves the homoerotic emotion" is both true and fine.  Suggesting two leaders you don't like must be engaging in homoerotic emotion is not, because it ties an inherent dislike of two people with being gay.  It links homosexuality with a negative connotation. Does that make sense?

So the issue is not that implying someone is homosexual debases or insults the person . . . it's that Trump and Pence are so terrible that they debase and insult homosexual people when you link them?  I think I can get on board with that reasoning.

[MudPuppy]

Take the L, man. It wasn’t a good comment. Have some grace.

[GuitarStv]

Take the L, man. It wasn’t a good comment. Have some grace.

I'm fine with the 'L' for a stupid comment.  That ship appears to have sailed.  :P

I'm not OK with the assumption that being gay is bad/dirty/wrong/insulting/debasing and therefore we can't discuss and treat homosexuality in the same way we would heterosexuality in casual conversation.

[MudPuppy]

No one is calling gay bad. That’s something your defensiveness (which we all have! It’s normal!) has latched onto.

[GuitarStv]

No one is calling gay bad. That’s something your defensiveness (which we all have! It’s normal!) has latched onto.

Nereo said that implying someone might be gay debased them and that mentioning 'homoerotic emotion' in relation to someone was insulting.

Can you explain where the insult/debasement comes from if being gay is not bad?

[MudPuppy]

It’s what your post implies. You made a joke. The punchline was homoerotic behavior. Again, take the L.

[GuitarStv]

It’s what your post implies. You made a joke. The punchline was homoerotic behavior. Again, take the L.

Right.

So the thought of gay behaviour is something to be ashamed of / take offense at?  Why?

[MudPuppy]

Look dude, you’re the one who made the punchline. NO ONE has said anything negative about homosexual behavior. If you didn’t intend homosexual behavior as the punchline, please explain your joke.

[charis]

It’s what your post implies. You made a joke. The punchline was homoerotic behavior. Again, take the L.

Right.

So the thought of gay behaviour is something to be ashamed of / take offense at?  Why?

That's everyone interpreted YOUR post to suggest. You disagree. Just stop beating this poor horse.

[powersuitrecall]

I'm no expert, but it seems as though a certain level of coordination was going on: 
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReesusP/status/1349255972829630465

[ixtap]

It’s what your post implies. You made a joke. The punchline was homoerotic behavior. Again, take the L.

Right.

So the thought of gay behaviour is something to be ashamed of / take offense at?  Why?

That's everyone interpreted YOUR post to suggest. You disagree. Just stop beating this poor horse.

Evidently it is hard to understand that if you invoke this while degrading someone, it is read as degrading...

[Kris]

It’s what your post implies. You made a joke. The punchline was homoerotic behavior. Again, take the L.

Right.

So the thought of gay behaviour is something to be ashamed of / take offense at?  Why?

That's everyone interpreted YOUR post to suggest. You disagree. Just stop beating this poor horse.

Evidently it is hard to understand that if you invoke this while degrading someone, it is read as degrading...

Yep. This. If you say of someone, "He's an asshole and also gay," people are not going to assume the second remark is neutral or positive.

Sorry, Stv. Gotta go with the majority on this one.

[turketron]

I'm no expert, but it seems as though a certain level of coordination was going on: 
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReesusP/status/1349255972829630465

Yeah, there's more evidence that some amount of coordination was happening, potentially from sources inside the Capitol.

The FBI also stated that some of the coordinators were sharing maps of the tunnels under the Capitol ahead of the riot:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-intelligence/2021/01/12/30d12748-546b-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

Capitol Staffer Says Office Panic Buttons Were 'Torn Out' Before Riot
https://www.newsweek.com/capitol-hill-riots-panic-buttons-torn-out-staffer-1561191

Lawmakers gave groups ‘reconnaissance’ tours of the Capitol one day before riots, Democratic congresswoman says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/13/mikie-sherrill-reconnaissance-capitol-attack/
(admittedly this one doesn't have much evidence to back up the claim, at least not yet)

[katsiki]

Another ‘outrage’:

According to a WH source, Trump is “bothered” by the impending second impeachment, but  he is completely “gutted” by the loss of hosting the PGA tour in 2022 at the Trump Bedminister course in NJ.  It’s ‘an order of magnitude’ more severe, and he has spent more of his time and focus trying to reverse the PGA decision than with GOP lawmakers who will vote on his impeachment.

To the end he cares more about his business than he does about his Presidency.

Interesting but this should not surprise anyone.

[talltexan]

For normal Presidents, their time after the Presidency was a time to cash in.

For a President who only ever saw his position as a way to enlarge his own business interests, it may be impossible for him to do the same once it's over.

[Alfred J Quack]

“You can either go down in history as a patriot,” Mr. Trump told him, according to two people briefed on the conversation, “or you can go down in history as a pussy.”

I certainly would prefer to be called a useful pet than to be called a military-fanatic shortsighted nut.

Actually Trump reverse logiced this.  Biden would be a pussy (has Trump ever met a cat? They are not pushovers) to give in to T**** and a Patriot to do the oath-following activity of doing his job properly.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pusillanimous

Pussy as in pusillanimous, not cat ;)

[GuitarStv]

I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

[Roadrunner53]

I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

His Mommy said he gets sick if he doesn't eat organic.

[ixtap]

I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

I haven't read any of the articles, but assumed that he claimed it was his religious right to follow his specific diet.

[GuitarStv]

I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

I haven't read any of the articles, but assumed that he claimed it was his religious right to follow his specific diet.

So . . . if a Rastafarian guy went on a hunger strike because the prison wouldn't provide weed for religious ceremony do you think the same result would occur?

[ixtap]

I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

I haven't read any of the articles, but assumed that he claimed it was his religious right to follow his specific diet.

So . . . if a Rastafarian guy went on a hunger strike because the prison wouldn't provide weed for religious ceremony do you think the same result would occur?

I don't think they are required to provide for ceremonies, but they are required to accommodate religious dietary restrictions.

[jrhampt]

I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

I haven't read any of the articles, but assumed that he claimed it was his religious right to follow his specific diet.

So . . . if a Rastafarian guy went on a hunger strike because the prison wouldn't provide weed for religious ceremony do you think the same result would occur?

I don't think they are required to provide for ceremonies, but they are required to accommodate religious dietary restrictions.

This is the only possible evidence I've seen yet that any of the insurrectionists might have been secret antifa/lefties :-)

[partgypsy]

Organic isn't a right/left thing so much as it's a white people thing. https://youtu.be/j0GmfZLMRzM

[talltexan]

Counterpoint: it's a right/left thing among white people.

[Just Joe]

https://twitter.com/AynRandPaulRyan/status/1349312406804025345

[ixtap]

Counterpoint: it's a right/left thing among white people.

I am not even sure which side you think dominates the organic movement. They do talk about it somewhat differently. Sometimes. Questions of "purity" seem to abound on both sides...

[Travis]

I'm no expert, but it seems as though a certain level of coordination was going on: 
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReesusP/status/1349255972829630465

Yeah, there's more evidence that some amount of coordination was happening, potentially from sources inside the Capitol.

The FBI also stated that some of the coordinators were sharing maps of the tunnels under the Capitol ahead of the riot:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-intelligence/2021/01/12/30d12748-546b-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

Capitol Staffer Says Office Panic Buttons Were 'Torn Out' Before Riot
https://www.newsweek.com/capitol-hill-riots-panic-buttons-torn-out-staffer-1561191

Lawmakers gave groups ‘reconnaissance’ tours of the Capitol one day before riots, Democratic congresswoman says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/13/mikie-sherrill-reconnaissance-capitol-attack/
(admittedly this one doesn't have much evidence to back up the claim, at least not yet)

And a dozen Capitol police are being investigated for incompetence or complicity. This is getting more complex by the day.

[GuitarStv]

I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

[ixtap]

I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).

[Glenstache]

Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

I wish this brought some sense of relief, but I fear that impeaching Trump is the easy part. The long lasting false-mythology of the stolen election, and deep divisions laid bare by the Trump presidency will be tough to grapple with.

[ixtap]

Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

That's not quite accurate: they can't "receive" the paperwork until they are in sessions, which won't happen until next week. McConnell isn't even interested in asking them to come back early, and I believe I heard that it would have to be a unanimous vote to do so.

[GuitarStv]

I'm not optimistic that this impeachment will amount to anything more than the last one did.

The house democrats are a toothless chihuahua gumming Trump's ankle after he finished ransacking the home and as is taking a final glance around to see if he missed any of the silverware.  :P

[Travis]

Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

That's not quite accurate: they can't "receive" the paperwork until they are in sessions, which won't happen until next week. McConnell isn't even interested in asking them to come back early, and I believe I heard that it would have to be a unanimous vote to do so.

Thanks to half the Republicans agreeing with #stopthesteal, none of Biden's nomination hearings have even started. McConnell stated or implied this impeachment would kick that can down the road even further. We're going to spend the first month of this new administration running entirely on acting secretaries.

[Glenstache]

Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

That's not quite accurate: they can't "receive" the paperwork until they are in sessions, which won't happen until next week. McConnell isn't even interested in asking them to come back early, and I believe I heard that it would have to be a unanimous vote to do so.

Thanks to half the Republicans agreeing with #stopthesteal, none of Biden's nomination hearings have even started. McConnell stated or implied this impeachment would kick that can down the road even further. We're going to spend the first month of this new administration running entirely on acting secretaries.

Luckily, McConnell will not be the majority leader come Jan 21.

[Just Joe]

I trust Biden's acting secretaries more than Trump's acting secretaries.

[nereo]

Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

I wish this brought some sense of relief, but I fear that impeaching Trump is the easy part. The long lasting false-mythology of the stolen election, and deep divisions laid bare by the Trump presidency will be tough to grapple with.

This seems like a gamble by McConnell that sentiment towards Trump will subside once he is no longer in the WH.  Problem as I see it is that - as each day goes by we learn more and more about how bad this insurrection was.  Today we have allegations that GOP members of the House helped key protesters ‘case the joint’ the day before.  What more will be known a week from now?

It also hinges on the optimistic assumption that Trump won’t attempt some mega-outrage as he heads for the exit.  Like issuing a blanket pardon for the 70+ who have had charges brought against their role. Or a self-pardon.  Or whatever. 

And finally McConnell’s got to hope his unhinged base doesn’t have any more violent insurrections in the next week — and by all accounts they are more motivated than ever right now.

[ixtap]

Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

I wish this brought some sense of relief, but I fear that impeaching Trump is the easy part. The long lasting false-mythology of the stolen election, and deep divisions laid bare by the Trump presidency will be tough to grapple with.

This seems like a gamble by McConnell that sentiment towards Trump will subside once he is no longer in the WH.  Problem as I see it is that - as each day goes by we learn more and more about how bad this insurrection was.  Today we have allegations that GOP members of the House helped key protesters ‘case the joint’ the day before.  What more will be known a week from now?

It also hinges on the optimistic assumption that Trump won’t attempt some mega-outrage as he heads for the exit.  Like issuing a blanket pardon for the 70+ who have had charges brought against their role. Or a self-pardon.  Or whatever. 

And finally McConnell’s got to hope his unhinged base doesn’t have any more violent insurrections in the next week — and by all accounts they are more motivated than ever right now.

But Trump *said* no violence, that all Americans should behave themselves!  SMH

[Travis]

Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

That's not quite accurate: they can't "receive" the paperwork until they are in sessions, which won't happen until next week. McConnell isn't even interested in asking them to come back early, and I believe I heard that it would have to be a unanimous vote to do so.

Thanks to half the Republicans agreeing with #stopthesteal, none of Biden's nomination hearings have even started. McConnell stated or implied this impeachment would kick that can down the road even further. We're going to spend the first month of this new administration running entirely on acting secretaries.

Luckily, McConnell will not be the majority leader come Jan 21.

He'll almost certainly be the minority leader, and he's nothing if not an obstructionist.

[Travis]

Just watched Trump's speech down by his fraction-of-the-border wall. I want to reach for a grammar textbook, an aspirin, and a bottle of bleach.

[Taran Wanderer]

Just watched Trump's speech down by his faction-of-the-border wall. I want to reach for a grammar textbook, an aspirin, and a bottle of bleach.

Good call on the bleach. It will also protect you from Covid...

/s

[Travis]

I'm no expert, but it seems as though a certain level of coordination was going on: 
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReesusP/status/1349255972829630465

I see a lot of conspiracy charges in that room, and for Ms. Bullhorn whatever it is you call it when you're considered the leader of an insurrection.

[ixtap]

When he originally announced his candidacy, Trump finally admitted that he never really thought that Obama wasn't American, like he had been saying for the past 8 years.

Can we reduce the turn around time to 8 weeks and get him to do that again regarding his election accusations?

[nereo]

When he originally announced his candidacy, Trump finally admitted that he never really thought that Obama wasn't American, like he had been saying for the past 8 years.

Can we reduce the turn around time to 8 weeks and get him to do that again regarding his election accusations?

Hmm... it was a bit different from that.  He called a press conference, where he claimed that Hillary Clinton was the one who had started the ‘birther’ conspiracy, and he was there to end it. 

Which was a rather enormous form of gaslighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D20ZMXcXNH4

[Poundwise]

The FBI now has photos up of the most wanted from the Capitol riots. Peruse and share! https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/capitol-violence

[Milizard]

I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).

(Quoting this as the most recent part of this conversation)

The Qanon Shamon guy, I read is an anti-vaxxer, which I guess goes along with the organic thing.

[RetiredAt63]

I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).

(Quoting this as the most recent part of this conversation)

The Qanon Shamon guy, I read is an anti-vaxxer, which I guess goes along with the organic thing.

Not sure the 2 go together.  I garden organically and I am a rabid pro-vaxxer. 

Makes more sense in that he listens to online nonsense for both politics and science.  Obviously an anti-masker as well.

[Dollar Slice]

Not sure the 2 go together.  I garden organically and I am a rabid pro-vaxxer. 

Makes more sense in that he listens to online nonsense for both politics and science.

I think there's a certain brand of nonsense that is aimed at the organic-food types. Like - all medicine is bad because it's  "chemicals" and "unnatural" and they don't really understand any of the science behind it. You know, the people who fall for the "dihydrogen monoxide" jokes because they're really just reacting to "that word sounds scary" instead of actual understanding. And they think GMO should be outlawed, not because they understand any of the nuance or science, but because they hear "there's fish DNA in your corn!" and think that sounds unnatural and scary and bad. And then they hear "there's mercury and formaldehyde in that vaccine!" or "there's a virus in that vaccine!" or whatever and they turn into anti-vaxxers because it sounds scary and they don't understand the science at all, and by now all of their news sources are complete quackery and they don't trust scientists or the government.

Obviously a lot of educated people eat organic food, too, but there is a small subset that goes down that hole.

[partgypsy]

To out myself esp if the price is not significantly different I do try to buy organic. Not because I think it's better for me, but for lower load of pesticides, additives in the environment.

[LennStar]

I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).

Oh really?

In the EU it's (in nearly all cases) not allowed for "Bio", which is translated as organic.

I'm not optimistic that this impeachment will amount to anything more than the last one did.

The house democrats are a toothless chihuahua gumming Trump's ankle after he finished ransacking the home and as is taking a final glance around to see if he missed any of the silverware.  :P

Yes. And I think it would actually be better strategically for them if there was no impeachment going on.
That way you could have a splitted Rep base in 2024. Or maybe a split between base and leaders, because the heads certainly don't want to lick Trumps arse again.