Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681519 times)

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7000 on: January 13, 2021, 12:41:17 PM »
I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

His Mommy said he gets sick if he doesn't eat organic.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7001 on: January 13, 2021, 12:46:55 PM »
I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

I haven't read any of the articles, but assumed that he claimed it was his religious right to follow his specific diet.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7002 on: January 13, 2021, 12:56:28 PM »
I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

I haven't read any of the articles, but assumed that he claimed it was his religious right to follow his specific diet.

So . . . if a Rastafarian guy went on a hunger strike because the prison wouldn't provide weed for religious ceremony do you think the same result would occur?

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7003 on: January 13, 2021, 12:57:58 PM »
I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

I haven't read any of the articles, but assumed that he claimed it was his religious right to follow his specific diet.

So . . . if a Rastafarian guy went on a hunger strike because the prison wouldn't provide weed for religious ceremony do you think the same result would occur?

I don't think they are required to provide for ceremonies, but they are required to accommodate religious dietary restrictions.

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7004 on: January 13, 2021, 01:09:30 PM »
I'm pretty pro prisoner rights . . . but this seems a bit odd to me:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/viking-guy-granted-all-organic-diet-in-custody-after-judge-learns-hes-not-eating/ar-BB1cH70p?ocid=st

Like, if he hunger striked for long enough would they give him lobster and caviar?

I haven't read any of the articles, but assumed that he claimed it was his religious right to follow his specific diet.

So . . . if a Rastafarian guy went on a hunger strike because the prison wouldn't provide weed for religious ceremony do you think the same result would occur?

I don't think they are required to provide for ceremonies, but they are required to accommodate religious dietary restrictions.

This is the only possible evidence I've seen yet that any of the insurrectionists might have been secret antifa/lefties :-)

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7005 on: January 13, 2021, 01:57:46 PM »
Organic isn't a right/left thing so much as it's a white people thing. https://youtu.be/j0GmfZLMRzM
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 02:00:30 PM by partgypsy »

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7006 on: January 13, 2021, 02:00:44 PM »
Counterpoint: it's a right/left thing among white people.

Just Joe

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ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7008 on: January 13, 2021, 02:11:19 PM »
Counterpoint: it's a right/left thing among white people.

I am not even sure which side you think dominates the organic movement. They do talk about it somewhat differently. Sometimes. Questions of "purity" seem to abound on both sides...

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7009 on: January 13, 2021, 02:12:48 PM »
I'm no expert, but it seems as though a certain level of coordination was going on: 
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReesusP/status/1349255972829630465

Yeah, there's more evidence that some amount of coordination was happening, potentially from sources inside the Capitol.

The FBI also stated that some of the coordinators were sharing maps of the tunnels under the Capitol ahead of the riot:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-intelligence/2021/01/12/30d12748-546b-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

Capitol Staffer Says Office Panic Buttons Were 'Torn Out' Before Riot
https://www.newsweek.com/capitol-hill-riots-panic-buttons-torn-out-staffer-1561191

Lawmakers gave groups ‘reconnaissance’ tours of the Capitol one day before riots, Democratic congresswoman says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/13/mikie-sherrill-reconnaissance-capitol-attack/
(admittedly this one doesn't have much evidence to back up the claim, at least not yet)

And a dozen Capitol police are being investigated for incompetence or complicity. This is getting more complex by the day.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7010 on: January 13, 2021, 02:24:18 PM »
I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7011 on: January 13, 2021, 02:25:49 PM »
I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7012 on: January 13, 2021, 02:29:26 PM »
Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

I wish this brought some sense of relief, but I fear that impeaching Trump is the easy part. The long lasting false-mythology of the stolen election, and deep divisions laid bare by the Trump presidency will be tough to grapple with.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7013 on: January 13, 2021, 02:36:15 PM »
Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment




That's not quite accurate: they can't "receive" the paperwork until they are in sessions, which won't happen until next week. McConnell isn't even interested in asking them to come back early, and I believe I heard that it would have to be a unanimous vote to do so.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7014 on: January 13, 2021, 02:43:08 PM »
I'm not optimistic that this impeachment will amount to anything more than the last one did.

The house democrats are a toothless chihuahua gumming Trump's ankle after he finished ransacking the home and as is taking a final glance around to see if he missed any of the silverware.  :P

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7015 on: January 13, 2021, 02:50:38 PM »
Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment




That's not quite accurate: they can't "receive" the paperwork until they are in sessions, which won't happen until next week. McConnell isn't even interested in asking them to come back early, and I believe I heard that it would have to be a unanimous vote to do so.

Thanks to half the Republicans agreeing with #stopthesteal, none of Biden's nomination hearings have even started. McConnell stated or implied this impeachment would kick that can down the road even further. We're going to spend the first month of this new administration running entirely on acting secretaries.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7016 on: January 13, 2021, 02:54:04 PM »
Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment




That's not quite accurate: they can't "receive" the paperwork until they are in sessions, which won't happen until next week. McConnell isn't even interested in asking them to come back early, and I believe I heard that it would have to be a unanimous vote to do so.

Thanks to half the Republicans agreeing with #stopthesteal, none of Biden's nomination hearings have even started. McConnell stated or implied this impeachment would kick that can down the road even further. We're going to spend the first month of this new administration running entirely on acting secretaries.
Luckily, McConnell will not be the majority leader come Jan 21.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7017 on: January 13, 2021, 02:55:08 PM »
I trust Biden's acting secretaries more than Trump's acting secretaries.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7018 on: January 13, 2021, 03:04:05 PM »
Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

I wish this brought some sense of relief, but I fear that impeaching Trump is the easy part. The long lasting false-mythology of the stolen election, and deep divisions laid bare by the Trump presidency will be tough to grapple with.

This seems like a gamble by McConnell that sentiment towards Trump will subside once he is no longer in the WH.  Problem as I see it is that - as each day goes by we learn more and more about how bad this insurrection was.  Today we have allegations that GOP members of the House helped key protesters ‘case the joint’ the day before.  What more will be known a week from now?

It also hinges on the optimistic assumption that Trump won’t attempt some mega-outrage as he heads for the exit.  Like issuing a blanket pardon for the 70+ who have had charges brought against their role. Or a self-pardon.  Or whatever. 

And finally McConnell’s got to hope his unhinged base doesn’t have any more violent insurrections in the next week — and by all accounts they are more motivated than ever right now.


ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7019 on: January 13, 2021, 03:05:22 PM »
Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment

I wish this brought some sense of relief, but I fear that impeaching Trump is the easy part. The long lasting false-mythology of the stolen election, and deep divisions laid bare by the Trump presidency will be tough to grapple with.

This seems like a gamble by McConnell that sentiment towards Trump will subside once he is no longer in the WH.  Problem as I see it is that - as each day goes by we learn more and more about how bad this insurrection was.  Today we have allegations that GOP members of the House helped key protesters ‘case the joint’ the day before.  What more will be known a week from now?

It also hinges on the optimistic assumption that Trump won’t attempt some mega-outrage as he heads for the exit.  Like issuing a blanket pardon for the 70+ who have had charges brought against their role. Or a self-pardon.  Or whatever. 

And finally McConnell’s got to hope his unhinged base doesn’t have any more violent insurrections in the next week — and by all accounts they are more motivated than ever right now.

But Trump *said* no violence, that all Americans should behave themselves!  SMH

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7020 on: January 13, 2021, 03:29:14 PM »
Impeached by the house a second time. Senate has 48 hours from receipt of the paperwork to start their trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/13/us/trump-impeachment




That's not quite accurate: they can't "receive" the paperwork until they are in sessions, which won't happen until next week. McConnell isn't even interested in asking them to come back early, and I believe I heard that it would have to be a unanimous vote to do so.

Thanks to half the Republicans agreeing with #stopthesteal, none of Biden's nomination hearings have even started. McConnell stated or implied this impeachment would kick that can down the road even further. We're going to spend the first month of this new administration running entirely on acting secretaries.
Luckily, McConnell will not be the majority leader come Jan 21.

He'll almost certainly be the minority leader, and he's nothing if not an obstructionist.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7021 on: January 13, 2021, 03:31:05 PM »
Just watched Trump's speech down by his fraction-of-the-border wall. I want to reach for a grammar textbook, an aspirin, and a bottle of bleach.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 04:10:37 PM by Travis »

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7022 on: January 13, 2021, 03:39:19 PM »
Just watched Trump's speech down by his faction-of-the-border wall. I want to reach for a grammar textbook, an aspirin, and a bottle of bleach.

Good call on the bleach. It will also protect you from Covid...

/s

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7023 on: January 13, 2021, 06:37:50 PM »
I'm no expert, but it seems as though a certain level of coordination was going on: 
https://mobile.twitter.com/ReesusP/status/1349255972829630465


I see a lot of conspiracy charges in that room, and for Ms. Bullhorn whatever it is you call it when you're considered the leader of an insurrection.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7024 on: January 13, 2021, 06:40:21 PM »
When he originally announced his candidacy, Trump finally admitted that he never really thought that Obama wasn't American, like he had been saying for the past 8 years.

Can we reduce the turn around time to 8 weeks and get him to do that again regarding his election accusations?

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7025 on: January 13, 2021, 06:56:06 PM »
When he originally announced his candidacy, Trump finally admitted that he never really thought that Obama wasn't American, like he had been saying for the past 8 years.

Can we reduce the turn around time to 8 weeks and get him to do that again regarding his election accusations?

Hmm... it was a bit different from that.  He called a press conference, where he claimed that Hillary Clinton was the one who had started the ‘birther’ conspiracy, and he was there to end it. 

Which was a rather enormous form of gaslighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D20ZMXcXNH4

Poundwise

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7026 on: January 13, 2021, 08:08:14 PM »
The FBI now has photos up of the most wanted from the Capitol riots. Peruse and share! https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/capitol-violence

Milizard

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7027 on: January 13, 2021, 08:18:49 PM »
I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).
(Quoting this as the most recent part of this conversation)

The Qanon Shamon guy, I read is an anti-vaxxer, which I guess goes along with the organic thing.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7028 on: January 13, 2021, 09:09:01 PM »
I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).
(Quoting this as the most recent part of this conversation)

The Qanon Shamon guy, I read is an anti-vaxxer, which I guess goes along with the organic thing.

Not sure the 2 go together.  I garden organically and I am a rabid pro-vaxxer. 

Makes more sense in that he listens to online nonsense for both politics and science.  Obviously an anti-masker as well.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7029 on: January 13, 2021, 09:29:19 PM »
Not sure the 2 go together.  I garden organically and I am a rabid pro-vaxxer. 

Makes more sense in that he listens to online nonsense for both politics and science.

I think there's a certain brand of nonsense that is aimed at the organic-food types. Like - all medicine is bad because it's  "chemicals" and "unnatural" and they don't really understand any of the science behind it. You know, the people who fall for the "dihydrogen monoxide" jokes because they're really just reacting to "that word sounds scary" instead of actual understanding. And they think GMO should be outlawed, not because they understand any of the nuance or science, but because they hear "there's fish DNA in your corn!" and think that sounds unnatural and scary and bad. And then they hear "there's mercury and formaldehyde in that vaccine!" or "there's a virus in that vaccine!" or whatever and they turn into anti-vaxxers because it sounds scary and they don't understand the science at all, and by now all of their news sources are complete quackery and they don't trust scientists or the government.

Obviously a lot of educated people eat organic food, too, but there is a small subset that goes down that hole.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7030 on: January 13, 2021, 11:05:22 PM »
To out myself esp if the price is not significantly different I do try to buy organic. Not because I think it's better for me, but for lower load of pesticides, additives in the environment.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 11:08:00 PM by partgypsy »

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7031 on: January 14, 2021, 04:27:15 AM »
I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).
Oh really?

In the EU it's (in nearly all cases) not allowed for "Bio", which is translated as organic.

I'm not optimistic that this impeachment will amount to anything more than the last one did.

The house democrats are a toothless chihuahua gumming Trump's ankle after he finished ransacking the home and as is taking a final glance around to see if he missed any of the silverware.  :P
Yes. And I think it would actually be better strategically for them if there was no impeachment going on.
That way you could have a splitted Rep base in 2024. Or maybe a split between base and leaders, because the heads certainly don't want to lick Trumps arse again.

EvenSteven

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7032 on: January 14, 2021, 06:52:22 AM »
I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).
Oh really?

In the EU it's (in nearly all cases) not allowed for "Bio", which is translated as organic.

I'm not optimistic that this impeachment will amount to anything more than the last one did.

The house democrats are a toothless chihuahua gumming Trump's ankle after he finished ransacking the home and as is taking a final glance around to see if he missed any of the silverware.  :P
Yes. And I think it would actually be better strategically for them if there was no impeachment going on.
That way you could have a splitted Rep base in 2024. Or maybe a split between base and leaders, because the heads certainly don't want to lick Trumps arse again.

I was under the impression that pesticide and fertilizer rules where similar in organic in the US and EU, in that "synthetic" fertilizers and pesticides are disallowed (with some exceptions), but "naturally derived" pesticides and fertilizers are used. And because "synthetic" vs "natural" is not a very good stand in for either human or environmental health, the organic label doesn't give much useful information.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7033 on: January 14, 2021, 07:00:58 AM »
I thought organic was a foodie thing.  It's political now?

I don't think it is actually a foodie thing, either. It is a trendy thing. Most don't even know what it involves (claiming no pesticides, for example, when actually they use different pesticides, many of which are more likely to leave a trace).
Oh really?

In the EU it's (in nearly all cases) not allowed for "Bio", which is translated as organic.


I'm the US, there are restrictions on pesticides ("synthetic inputs"), but many "natural" ones are still allowed. Turns out in verifying this answer, some of the worst have recently been restricted, so I do not know if it is still true that they use some that are worse than their synthetic versions.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7034 on: January 14, 2021, 07:27:05 AM »
I don't know what things are like in the US, but in Canada 'organic' is largely policed by farmers themselves.  My dad grows organic soy beans, corn, and has a small apple orchard - all organic grown.  He has been doing it for fifteen years, and has never had his crop inspected.  Last I heart there were only two inspectors in all of Ontario tasked to checking if things are organic.

I'd be very surprised if all 'organic' stuff on the shelves was actually grown in an organic manner in Canada.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7035 on: January 14, 2021, 07:42:44 AM »
I don't know what things are like in the US, but in Canada 'organic' is largely policed by farmers themselves.  My dad grows organic soy beans, corn, and has a small apple orchard - all organic grown.  He has been doing it for fifteen years, and has never had his crop inspected.  Last I heart there were only two inspectors in all of Ontario tasked to checking if things are organic.

I'd be very surprised if all 'organic' stuff on the shelves was actually grown in an organic manner in Canada.

In the US, anyhting labeled 'Organic' certified is handled through the USDA (Dept of Ag.).  We're actually going through the process and it's pretty intensive and comprehensive. Not only are you limited on the fertilizers and pest control you can use (nothing synthetically derived), but your source material (i.e. "seed") must come from a certified organic supplier, and farms that were formerly 'conventional' (read: Not 'Organic') must lay fallow or follow verifiable organic protocol for up to five years before you are eligible for an organic label.  and then there's required heavy metals and metalloid testing which is more stringent for Organic certified produce.  It's a PITA but it does give the "organic certification' real meaning and value.

Because it's so expensive, you see a lot of farms that will say they "follow organic practices" or "are applying for organic certification" as a way of boosting their green image without having done all the paperwork.  Some are just greenwashing, some are legit.  Hard to know which is which.

Watchmaker

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7036 on: January 14, 2021, 07:59:25 AM »
Because it's so expensive, you see a lot of farms that will say they "follow organic practices" or "are applying for organic certification" as a way of boosting their green image without having done all the paperwork.  Some are just greenwashing, some are legit.  Hard to know which is which.

For this reason (among others) I prefer to buy as many vegetables as possible from farmers I personally know, and farms I can visit.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 09:16:06 AM by Watchmaker »

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7037 on: January 14, 2021, 08:39:52 AM »
To out myself esp if the price is not significantly different I do try to buy organic. Not because I think it's better for me, but for lower load of pesticides, additives in the environment.

I buy organic for the top half of the dirty dozen.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7038 on: January 14, 2021, 08:54:52 AM »
To out myself esp if the price is not significantly different I do try to buy organic. Not because I think it's better for me, but for lower load of pesticides, additives in the environment.

I buy organic for the top half of the dirty dozen.

(for context)
more info.

I worked near strawberry fields and had a few friends who were employed as inspectors and as sprayers.  I will not eat non-organic strawberries.

EvenSteven

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7039 on: January 14, 2021, 09:09:58 AM »
To out myself esp if the price is not significantly different I do try to buy organic. Not because I think it's better for me, but for lower load of pesticides, additives in the environment.

I buy organic for the top half of the dirty dozen.

(for context)
more info.

I worked near strawberry fields and had a few friends who were employed as inspectors and as sprayers.  I will not eat non-organic strawberries.

Buying organic won't hurt you health, so there is nothing wrong if you want to buy it. That being said, the dirty dozen list by the EWG in a bunch of non-sense marketing from the organic industry targeting consuma suckas to buy their product.

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/wellness/why-the-dirty-dozen-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7040 on: January 14, 2021, 09:38:35 AM »
I worked near strawberry fields and had a few friends who were employed as inspectors and as sprayers.  I will not eat non-organic strawberries.
Well, it's quite easy to circumvent non-organic straberries. We've got about 20-25 plants in the garden and from spring to well into september we had about 10-15 strawberries a day. Our oldest went into the yard after dinner and started plucking his dessert himself with extra for his little brother.

No pesticides needed, only a little rinse with water.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7041 on: January 14, 2021, 09:51:00 AM »
We all saw this coming months ago, but here it is:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/14/trump-refusing-to-pay-rudy-giuliani-legal-fees-after-falling-out

Trump refusing to pay his bill with Giuliani.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7042 on: January 14, 2021, 10:24:19 AM »
We all saw this coming months ago, but here it is:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/14/trump-refusing-to-pay-rudy-giuliani-legal-fees-after-falling-out

Trump refusing to pay his bill with Giuliani.

At this point, anyone who does business with Trump and expects to get paid is a damn fool. I assumed that the people still doing business with him recently were riding his coattails for other perks and had accepted any invoices to him as a cost of business.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7043 on: January 14, 2021, 10:32:55 AM »

Buying organic won't hurt you health, so there is nothing wrong if you want to buy it. That being said, the dirty dozen list by the EWG in a bunch of non-sense marketing from the organic industry targeting consuma suckas to buy their product.

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/wellness/why-the-dirty-dozen-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/

Reasons to support organic are not limited to the pesticide load or even variety at the time of consumption - a point the article linked above completely ignores.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7044 on: January 14, 2021, 10:37:34 AM »

Buying organic won't hurt you health, so there is nothing wrong if you want to buy it. That being said, the dirty dozen list by the EWG in a bunch of non-sense marketing from the organic industry targeting consuma suckas to buy their product.

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/wellness/why-the-dirty-dozen-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/

Reasons to support organic are not limited to the pesticide load or even variety at the time of consumption - a point the article linked above completely ignores.

The article linked above is specifically referring to a report with the subtitle "Shopper's Guide to Pesticides in Produce."

EvenSteven

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7045 on: January 14, 2021, 10:41:13 AM »

Buying organic won't hurt you health, so there is nothing wrong if you want to buy it. That being said, the dirty dozen list by the EWG in a bunch of non-sense marketing from the organic industry targeting consuma suckas to buy their product.

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/wellness/why-the-dirty-dozen-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/

Reasons to support organic are not limited to the pesticide load or even variety at the time of consumption - a point the article linked above completely ignores.

I agree, and mentioned as much when I linked the article (even though I am mostly neutral on organic agriculture, so not a supporter). My point that the dirty dozen is a crap list with crap methodology remains.

Sandi_k

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7046 on: January 14, 2021, 11:12:21 AM »

I wish this brought some sense of relief, but I fear that impeaching Trump is the easy part. The long lasting false-mythology of the stolen election, and deep divisions laid bare by the Trump presidency will be tough to grapple with.

This is not a mere political issue - it's a cognitive bias issue, with deep behavioral, neurological and psychological roots.

Implicit bias is a thing - and the research shows that conservatives think in more binary ways than liberals do: it's a yes/no, good/bad/, black/white, right/wrong dynamic.

Just one example of the academic research, here:

https://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.neuropsych.16030051

"There is increasing evidence that neurobiological factors mediate where people fall on a general conservative-liberal axis that involves social, cultural, religious, economic, and other domains, as well as political ideology. Many studies now indicate that differences between extreme conservatives and extreme liberals are not entirely due to differences in socioeconomic, cultural, or other learned attributes, or rational consideration of the issues.3 Conservatism-liberalism is also associated with differences in personality, attention, memory, perception, emotional reactions, problem-solving, and response choices..."

So it's not about facts, per se. And it's not something that we can persuade them into or out of. Their brains actually interpret threat, risk, and actions differently.

Two prominent academics who do this sort of research: Dr. Jennifer Eberhardt of Stanford, and Dr. Jack Glaser at Berkeley....

« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 11:51:09 AM by Sandi_k »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7047 on: January 14, 2021, 11:32:42 AM »

I wish this brought some sense of relief, but I fear that impeaching Trump is the easy part. The long lasting false-mythology of the stolen election, and deep divisions laid bare by the Trump presidency will be tough to grapple with.

This is not a mere political issue - it's a cognitive bias issue, with deep behavioral, nuerological and psychological roots.

Implicit bias is a thing - and the research shows that conservatives think in more binary ways than liberals do: it's a yes/no, good/bad/, black/white, right/wrong dynamic.


So much of science is non-binary, and there are so many areas of in-between.  Given that research produces data all the time that makes us revise what we think, does this approach to the world make it more difficult for more binary people to flourish in the sciences?  If so, it might explain part of their mistrust of science and technology, because scientists tend to hedge their explanations because they are never 100% certain.  And if you have a binary type mind, you want a yes/no answer.  Which would also explain why they are so upset that first they were told not to wear masks for Covid and now they are told to wear masks.  They don't inherently like the flip-flop.

As a STEM person myself, who can think of all the "what-ifs" and "yes buts", I tend to mistrust binary presentations and outlooks and philosophies, because I rarely see the world as binary.

Sandi_k

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7048 on: January 14, 2021, 11:49:04 AM »

I wish this brought some sense of relief, but I fear that impeaching Trump is the easy part. The long lasting false-mythology of the stolen election, and deep divisions laid bare by the Trump presidency will be tough to grapple with.

This is not a mere political issue - it's a cognitive bias issue, with deep behavioral, nuerological and psychological roots.

Implicit bias is a thing - and the research shows that conservatives think in more binary ways than liberals do: it's a yes/no, good/bad/, black/white, right/wrong dynamic.


So much of science is non-binary, and there are so many areas of in-between.  Given that research produces data all the time that makes us revise what we think, does this approach to the world make it more difficult for more binary people to flourish in the sciences?  If so, it might explain part of their mistrust of science and technology, because scientists tend to hedge their explanations because they are never 100% certain.  And if you have a binary type mind, you want a yes/no answer.  Which would also explain why they are so upset that first they were told not to wear masks for Covid and now they are told to wear masks.  They don't inherently like the flip-flop.

As a STEM person myself, who can think of all the "what-ifs" and "yes buts", I tend to mistrust binary presentations and outlooks and philosophies, because I rarely see the world as binary.

Exactly. Scientists, academics, political scientists - we all talk about the complexities of the world; the exceptions; the difficulties. Which is, I think, why we also have a hard time shutting people out entirely - we think "if only I could explain this well enough, they'd understand!"

Neuroscience indicates that they actually CAN'T understand.

This is why I wish the Democrats would be less conciliatory. This is not about "coming together" - there is a basic wetware limitation that preserves and enhances the political divide. So Democrats should stake their claim, hold their ground, and let the consequences fall where they may.

But the Democrats aren't wired that way. So we will have an eternal stalemate. It's gonna come down to financing, demographics, and will.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 11:50:38 AM by Sandi_k »

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #7049 on: January 14, 2021, 02:29:24 PM »
Neuroscience indicates that they actually CAN'T understand.
I am not a neuroscientist and will admit that I likely didn't understand the entirety of the article but nothing I saw in your previously linked article indicated that "they actually CAN'T understand" any given topic, viewpoint or data set.  That is, perhaps, a somewhat too black/white way to phrase the situation.