Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 357622 times)

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4650 on: October 06, 2020, 11:21:54 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.

Quote
He was accused of rape and sexual assault, and hid himself away in a tiny room for years to avoid having to face the charges.
Now there is a really complicated story behind this.
However, don't you think he might have hid to not get sentenced to death in the US? (Especially since it seems that the accusations of sexual assault were mostly hot air and very convenient to the US at the time.)


Quote
In NY poll watchers are pre-selected by county Dem/Repub chairs.  You can't just show up and declare yourself a poll watcher, that is a fast way to arrest for voter intimidation.
Um.... do I get this right? A poll watcher is someone who watches that everything goes according to rules, right? Someone that does not do anything in the process of voting itself, right?

Here in Germany it is a right everyone has, and no one has to register before. Because, you know, does the police tell a suspect they are watching him??
If you can't do that in the US than the "democracy" there is even worse than.... wait, I forgot you use voting machines. You don't need a watcher for those things. Watching them does not change anything if they screw up the votes.

Germany also has a different culture around firearms.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4651 on: October 06, 2020, 11:35:08 AM »
The constitution dictates when federal elections occur, but the States decide how it is done.

 By law, federal elections are administered and overseen at the State level.  Each state sets up the voting proceedures, including rules for registration, polling locations, verification requirements, absentee voting, whether it is a state holiday etc.  These can (and are) challenged in federal courts but every state is given a lot of leeway as to how it administers the election.  Some use polling machines, though many do not.

Every polling place has Election Clerk (sometimes called an officer, judge or Official) who certifies the votes for that particular polling location.

By design it is an intentionally de-centralized operation.

SotI

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4652 on: October 06, 2020, 12:50:03 PM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Source: as reported on the extradition trial.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6649320/wikileaks-password-leaked-by-journalists/?fbclid=IwAR3k6znVREnoeLNkpFcrtm2b_V6I5XsFX1K8m4AAH8QJwIWwAGruBm4-rvw

I don't care too much about about Assange's personality but imo it's been pretty obvious that there have been consistent smear tactics deployed for years. For years, the narrative was "he's paranoid, the US is not after him". Now it's clear they plotted to get him out of the Ecuadorian embassy. And that once that they got him out, they (US) are ramping up the charges.

Unfortunately pretty much all European countries have been looking away, as it's essentially a political inconvenience for them.
As they did when the Snowden papers were published.

Anyhow, didn't mean to start a discussion on this in a Trump thread. Just figured I might make a statement when I am already insulting the mighty POTUS in all his glory.

Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4653 on: October 06, 2020, 12:59:52 PM »
Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

It's a legitimate point of public interest because if Trump dies before the election then all hell will break loose. The US is not prepared for this. There is theoretically "what's supposed to happen", but it's full of legal uncertainties. And that's before you even add in the Trumper conspiracy theorists and 3%/Boogaloo/Promise Keeper militia types who will go absolutely bonkers if their candidate dies.

Add to that the fact that we're still dealing with this pandemic, and Trump is now openly telling people not to worry about it because it's no big deal, and you get the detailed scrutiny.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4654 on: October 06, 2020, 01:05:11 PM »
Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

It's a legitimate point of public interest because if Trump dies before the election then all hell will break loose. The US is not prepared for this. There is theoretically "what's supposed to happen", but it's full of legal uncertainties. And that's before you even add in the Trumper conspiracy theorists and 3%/Boogaloo/Promise Keeper militia types who will go absolutely bonkers if their candidate dies.

Add to that the fact that we're still dealing with this pandemic, and Trump is now openly telling people not to worry about it because it's no big deal, and you get the detailed scrutiny.

Exactly this. In any previous administrations going back decades, if the president had died before the election, it would be definitely a situation of upheaval, but we would have the legal roadmap in place to guide us, and not the years-long misinformation campaigns of Trump, his backers, and right-wing media (plus successful Russian interference, etc.) to throw things into confusion.

No matter whether you like Trump or loathe him, any thinking person would have to have taken leave of his/her senses to wish for his death from Covid any time between now and inauguration day. It would be a disaster for our country.

jrhampt

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4655 on: October 06, 2020, 01:07:04 PM »
Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

It's a legitimate point of public interest because if Trump dies before the election then all hell will break loose. The US is not prepared for this. There is theoretically "what's supposed to happen", but it's full of legal uncertainties. And that's before you even add in the Trumper conspiracy theorists and 3%/Boogaloo/Promise Keeper militia types who will go absolutely bonkers if their candidate dies.

Add to that the fact that we're still dealing with this pandemic, and Trump is now openly telling people not to worry about it because it's no big deal, and you get the detailed scrutiny.

Plus, this is a White House that lies about everything, and everyone is trying to figure out if Trump and others in his orbit are still contagious, since he refuses to wear a mask and is threatening to attend campaign events in person, and who knows when he was actually first infected?  And now the Joint Chiefs of Staff are quarantining too.  It's just a huge mess compounded by lack of inability to trust the administration both to be truthful and to be careful/responsible for containing the spread.

bacchi

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4656 on: October 06, 2020, 01:08:31 PM »
And that's before you even add in the Trumper conspiracy theorists and 3%/Boogaloo/Promise Keeper militia types who will go absolutely bonkers if their candidate dies.

There was one alt-right/Q faction who thought Trump was at Reed for protection because he was about to announce the Storm. Another faction thought he was given covid intentionally by Chinese covert agents.

Either way, those people are wack.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4657 on: October 06, 2020, 01:17:02 PM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Source: as reported on the extradition trial.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6649320/wikileaks-password-leaked-by-journalists/?fbclid=IwAR3k6znVREnoeLNkpFcrtm2b_V6I5XsFX1K8m4AAH8QJwIWwAGruBm4-rvw

I don't care too much about about Assange's personality but imo it's been pretty obvious that there have been consistent smear tactics deployed for years. For years, the narrative was "he's paranoid, the US is not after him". Now it's clear they plotted to get him out of the Ecuadorian embassy. And that once that they got him out, they (US) are ramping up the charges.

Unfortunately pretty much all European countries have been looking away, as it's essentially a political inconvenience for them.
As they did when the Snowden papers were published.

The above seems like a dodgy legal argument to avoid accountability. The documents were in their possession, and then they were released.

Look, it gets pretty simple.  Assange founded Wikileaks.  From their own website: Wikileaks will accept restricted or sensored material of political, ethical, diplomatic or historical significance.

Certain privacies are sacrosanct in our society.  Doctor-patient; spousal-communication; attorney-client.  They are not limitless (for example, parties cannot conspire to break the law), but they are protected in every democratic society that I know of. Neither Law enforcement nor governments cannot obtain private communications without special legal circumstances (e.g.  a legal warrant), nor record correspondence inside one's home. 

Wikileaks and Assange in particular have repeatedly and very publicly violated people's private conversations.  They actively accept such correspondence and utterly fail to place safeguards on law-abiding citizens.  Worse, Assange has made 'total transparency' his justification.

Much of the defense of Assange (including those above) focuses on his supposed persecution by several nation-states, and ignores his actions entirely. To the credit of wikileaks they have unearthed some awful and illegal actions by various governments.  But this does not excuse their own illegal actions to obtain, archive and release troves of perfectly legitimate (though sometimes socially damning) communications.

tl;dr - the ends cannot justify the means in the eyes of the law.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4658 on: October 06, 2020, 01:32:18 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4659 on: October 06, 2020, 01:33:55 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4660 on: October 06, 2020, 01:34:48 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

It's like he's trying to tank the economy.

SotI

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4661 on: October 06, 2020, 01:36:45 PM »

tl;dr - the ends cannot justify the means in the eyes of the law.
Fair enough. It would be more convincing an argument if this standard was also applied to the US authorities, I guess.

Trump's state of health and the detailed scrutiny on every wrinkle and breath reminds me of the olden days when the Soviet leaders were under such scrutiny by the political (and military) pundits ...
Kind of farcical, tbh.

It's a legitimate point of public interest because if Trump dies before the election then all hell will break loose. The US is not prepared for this.
That would indeed be scary if US institutions were not able to peacefully adjust to such a scenario.

Mind you, another week or so should show if he survives. Can't remember the stats but I seem to remember that he's got a > 90% survival rate chance within his age bracket. So the odds are all in his favour.

In the meantime, he will keep trolling the Dems.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4662 on: October 06, 2020, 01:43:21 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This.

Trump does not want to hand the Democrats a win before the election, even if it means delaying desperately needed financial aid.  Desperate and ... well ... just plain crazy to be honest.  No one should vote Republican in this election, this is not the will of the people being carried out.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4663 on: October 06, 2020, 02:13:20 PM »

tl;dr - the ends cannot justify the means in the eyes of the law.
Fair enough. It would be more convincing an argument if this standard was also applied to the US authorities, I guess.
This is where I vehemently disagree, and have said as much above.

Assange's conduct cannot be excused simply because there are other entities who also break laws. That's  textbook example of 'whataboutism!'.  Neither party gets a pass.
What he has done is illegal and (IMO) ethically & socially wrong. 

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4664 on: October 06, 2020, 02:15:55 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This.

Trump does not want to hand the Democrats a win before the election, even if it means delaying desperately needed financial aid.  Desperate and ... well ... just plain crazy to be honest.  No one should vote Republican in this election, this is not the will of the people being carried out.

Also, he just manipulated the stock market (yet again).

Headline: “ U.S. stocks plummet after Trump says he will delay stimulus to after the election ”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/06/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/#link-AN4AJBMF4NGRJHM3MLJLQQJAUQ

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4665 on: October 06, 2020, 02:26:00 PM »
This could get ugly

More than half of US states have extended unemployment insruance to 39 weeks thanks to the CARES act.  Or those who got laid off in March when lockdowns were announced their state uninsurance payments will end in late November. BLS estimates there are still between 8-9 million people in this category.
Federal UI benifits ended in July.  Eviction protections expired last month.

A lot of people have exhausted their savings, gone into debt and are running out of options as we head towards Thanksgiving.

How might Trump's position change should he lose re-election in november?  Will he just let the economy crash and burn to spite Joe Bidden and hand him a falling knife?  I wouldn't put it past him.

wenchsenior

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4666 on: October 06, 2020, 02:59:56 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 03:02:17 PM by wenchsenior »

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4667 on: October 06, 2020, 03:06:53 PM »
You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?

I mean:
1) I don't understand how most things Trump does would rationally help his long-term strategy.
2) Trump's supporters seem to buy it all anyway.
3) There's a decent chance the GOP keeps the senate even if Biden wins.
4) He's doing exactly the same thing with healthcare. "We're going to have a big beautiful healthcare bill that fixes all the problems with everything and is far cheaper. I'll tell you about it after the election."
5) Even if Dems do retake the senate they won't be able to do anything by themselves until late January, which is an awful long way away if you need COVID relief now.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 03:08:27 PM by sherr »

sixwings

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4668 on: October 06, 2020, 03:10:16 PM »
Trump tanks the economy so he can run on the Make America Great Again campaign instead of the Keep America Great Again. That way he just reuse material from 4 years ago and save some money.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4669 on: October 06, 2020, 04:08:11 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
My take?  Trump needs votes between now and Nov 3rd.
A promise to give “big Covid paychecks!” Before November will at appeal to some struggling voters who can’t wait for the end of November for the Dems to come into the majority 2.5 months later.

Basically a ham handed threat. Re-elect me or you might wait another 10 weeks for Uncle Sam to help

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4670 on: October 06, 2020, 04:23:32 PM »
When I was little I used to thank God for getting my Irish ancestors out of Ireland.  Now I thank God that my ancestors emigrated to Canada.  Except for the ones who did emigrate to the 13 colonies, and then took refuge in New Brunswick at the end of the rebellion.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4671 on: October 06, 2020, 04:38:17 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
My take?  Trump needs votes between now and Nov 3rd.
A promise to give “big Covid paychecks!” Before November will at appeal to some struggling voters who can’t wait for the end of November for the Dems to come into the majority 2.5 months later.

Basically a ham handed threat. Re-elect me or you might wait another 10 weeks for Uncle Sam to help

And the second-string press secretary immediately said it was Pelosi's fault and Trump saying she was negotiating in bad faith.  The House passed their version days ago.  Your bestest buddy Mitch has been dragging his feet. There's nothing to negotiate at this moment.

Update: Pelosi delayed that vote. I swear I read that it happened.  Trump amended his earlier tweet that he'll sign a bill that is just stimulus checks, an airline bailout, and some paycheck protections, but nothing for those "high crime Democrat states." Apparently we have states in the country that are 100% Democrat. Who knew.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 01:36:02 AM by Travis »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4672 on: October 06, 2020, 05:44:48 PM »
So apparently Stephen Miller has tested positive for covid. I suspect the correct medical diagnosis is that the covid viruses caught a case of Stephen Miller and are not happy about the situation.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4673 on: October 06, 2020, 06:18:00 PM »
I was just reading John Scalzi's blog (https://whatever.scalzi.com/) and would recommend his October 6 post.  He had a fair bit to say about Biden and Trump, but you have to love this line.

Trump "is careening through the White House, pumped up on steroids and experimental drugs, shedding viruses like a white cat sheds on a black shirt"

No wonder his books sell so well, he has a way with words.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4674 on: October 06, 2020, 06:45:29 PM »
So apparently Stephen Miller has tested positive for covid. I suspect the correct medical diagnosis is that the covid viruses caught a case of Stephen Miller and are not happy about the situation.

I actually feel sorry for those coronavirus strands...

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4675 on: October 06, 2020, 07:22:49 PM »
I was just reading John Scalzi's blog (https://whatever.scalzi.com/) and would recommend his October 6 post.  He had a fair bit to say about Biden and Trump, but you have to love this line.

Trump "is careening through the White House, pumped up on steroids and experimental drugs, shedding viruses like a white cat sheds on a black shirt"

No wonder his books sell so well, he has a way with words.

On a more serious point though, one of the side effects of dexamethasone is that it may cause mood swings.  After all these conspiracy theories of Biden taking PED's - Trump is actually on drugs while running the country.  Pelosi also brought it up

Buckle up folks!  This week ain't over yet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4676 on: October 06, 2020, 08:15:37 PM »
So apparently Stephen Miller has tested positive for covid.

It's jumped species!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4677 on: October 06, 2020, 08:25:46 PM »
So apparently Stephen Miller has tested positive for covid.

It's jumped species!

Cats catch it, I saw someplace some cows (I think) caught it, why shouldn't Stephen Miller catch it?

Hmmm, when I typed Stephen, my spell check came up with Harper.  That is a sobering fact.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4678 on: October 06, 2020, 08:40:29 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?

I think enough time could pass that it could have a major impact.

If Trump withholds stimulus and wins they could rush to pass something right after the election

If Biden wins the republicans withhold aid and it will be after Biden takes power (plus some time to vote and get it through) before they could pass something.


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OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4679 on: October 06, 2020, 10:16:55 PM »
This thread is getting to be Trump outrage of the hour.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4680 on: October 07, 2020, 04:02:06 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Out of my head only German video from a regular TV show that so far has won every lawsuit about incorrectness/libel. (The show "Die Anstalt" is officially satire, but they are more investigative journalism than most newspaper.)

Quote
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

No, there were allegations. Charges, however, were not, according to Wikipedia. Most likely because of lack of evidence, since even the women said that the sex started in mutual agreement. What happened during it...
It is possible the accusations are correct, but the timing and irregularities around them make it highly suspicious. That is why I wrote what I did - it looks like made up to slander Assange.

And if Assange had traveled to e.g. Sweden (and yes, there has been illegal stuff been done there because of US pressure) he would have faced deportation to the US to at least lifelong sentence.
And I would not have counted on the promise of "no death sentence" from a country which has a special law allowing it to invade a EU city if an international court there dares to go after a US soldier for war crimes (the so-called Den Hague Law).

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4681 on: October 07, 2020, 04:07:15 AM »
This thread is getting to be Trump outrage of the hour.

Sadly, I think it’s just going to get worse. Trump’s MO when he’s down is to do one outrageous thing after another to keep all the focus on him, good or bad.  There’s 4 weeks left, so I expect daily tweet-storms, provocative comments, questionable legal activity and a constant barrage of false accusations.

I’ve been dead serious that I want all future presidents to be predictable and boring.  Showmen (or women) may drive news cycles but Trump’s presidency has highlighted how detrimental it can be to everything from foreign policy to people’s faith in government.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4682 on: October 07, 2020, 05:02:15 AM »
If you really want a good understanding of the state of politics consider Kentucky, where Moscow Mitch is from. They are the hardest hit states in terms of unemployment due to Covid. Yet Mitch when asked about Trump's decision to stop stimulus talks, was fully on board giving a big fat middle finger to everyone including his own state. Yet he is very likely to be elected to the Senate for the 200th year. 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 05:10:39 AM by MasterStache »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4683 on: October 07, 2020, 05:45:13 AM »

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4684 on: October 07, 2020, 06:07:02 AM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
My take?  Trump needs votes between now and Nov 3rd.
A promise to give “big Covid paychecks!” Before November will at appeal to some struggling voters who can’t wait for the end of November for the Dems to come into the majority 2.5 months later.

Basically a ham handed threat. Re-elect me or you might wait another 10 weeks for Uncle Sam to help

And the second-string press secretary immediately said it was Pelosi's fault and Trump saying she was negotiating in bad faith.  The House passed their version days ago.  Your bestest buddy Mitch has been dragging his feet. There's nothing to negotiate at this moment.

Update: Pelosi delayed that vote. I swear I read that it happened.  Trump amended his earlier tweet that he'll sign a bill that is just stimulus checks, an airline bailout, and some paycheck protections, but nothing for those "high crime Democrat states." Apparently we have states in the country that are 100% Democrat. Who knew.

What Trump is doing doesn't make sense for Trump. It makes a lot of sense for McConnell, who has to shepherd some purple state Senators through an election to keep his majority. I wonder what McConnell did to manage Trump so well here?

I believe that when historians are several decades removed, they'll refer to my lifetime as the Reagan-Gingrich-McConnell era, in which the culture of small government was refreshed by Reagan, then maintained by Gingrich and McConnell successfully thwarting Democratic Presidents when necessary, and bringing power back to their own when they could.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 06:10:38 AM by talltexan »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4685 on: October 07, 2020, 06:13:30 AM »
Here’s voter intimidation in action, folks. If you see voters in your communities being harassed by these thugs, call the Election Protection coalition hotline at 866-OUR-VOTE.

Reuters: Cellphones in hand, 'Army for Trump' readies poll watching operation

Quote
Republicans are mobilizing thousands of volunteers to watch early voting sites and ballot drop boxes leading up to November’s election, part of an effort to find evidence to back up President Donald Trump’s unsubstantiated complaints about widespread voter fraud.

——————————

Poll watching by partisan observers is a normal feature in U.S. elections that dates back to the 18th century and is subject to various state laws and local rules.

Still, this year’s operation by the Trump campaign is highly unusual, voting rights advocates say, both in its focus on early voting and in its emphasis on finding evidence to support baseless assertions by the president and his supporters that Democrats plan to flood the system with phony mail ballots to steal the election.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4686 on: October 07, 2020, 06:15:31 AM »
If you really want a good understanding of the state of politics consider Kentucky, where Moscow Mitch is from. They are the hardest hit states in terms of unemployment due to Covid. Yet Mitch when asked about Trump's decision to stop stimulus talks, was fully on board giving a big fat middle finger to everyone including his own state. Yet he is very likely to be elected to the Senate for the 200th year.
The Senate Republicans have been beyond Mitch's control on legislative matters since Trump was elected: without a President who is interested and knowledgeable in the legislative process Mitch is completely unable to marshall any sort of majority for serious legislation such as a Health Care Bill or an Infrastructure Bill.  A significant part of why he's been concentrating on judicial appointments is because that's all he can do.  The earlier Covid Bills got through on overwhelming Democratic support and the less irrational part of the Republicans, but at this point Republican senators are staring down the barrel and all bets are off.

McConnell won his last Senate race with 56% of the vote (having got only 60% in his primary) and he's currently polling 48% with McGrath 7% behind.  He's losing the love, even in Kentucky.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4687 on: October 07, 2020, 07:00:48 AM »
I think I tend to focus so much on what Trump's doing and what his impact is on the Presidential election, that I tend to forget the effect he has down ballot. There are so many reliably red states where Biden leads, and Senate candidates are in competitive races, that it seems that Trump is dragging those down-ballot races in the wrong direction. With many rank and file Republicans falling in line, it seems that they're putting their own re-election races in jeopardy and I could easily see Dems re-taking the Senate with a few key flips. The Trump ship is sinking...and he's taking everyone down with him

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4688 on: October 07, 2020, 07:24:48 AM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
My take?  Trump needs votes between now and Nov 3rd.
A promise to give “big Covid paychecks!” Before November will at appeal to some struggling voters who can’t wait for the end of November for the Dems to come into the majority 2.5 months later.

Basically a ham handed threat. Re-elect me or you might wait another 10 weeks for Uncle Sam to help

And the second-string press secretary immediately said it was Pelosi's fault and Trump saying she was negotiating in bad faith.  The House passed their version days ago.  Your bestest buddy Mitch has been dragging his feet. There's nothing to negotiate at this moment.

Update: Pelosi delayed that vote. I swear I read that it happened.  Trump amended his earlier tweet that he'll sign a bill that is just stimulus checks, an airline bailout, and some paycheck protections, but nothing for those "high crime Democrat states." Apparently we have states in the country that are 100% Democrat. Who knew.

What Trump is doing doesn't make sense for Trump. It makes a lot of sense for McConnell, who has to shepherd some purple state Senators through an election to keep his majority. I wonder what McConnell did to manage Trump so well here?

I believe that when historians are several decades removed, they'll refer to my lifetime as the Reagan-Gingrich-McConnell era, in which the culture of small government was refreshed by Reagan, then maintained by Gingrich and McConnell successfully thwarting Democratic Presidents when necessary, and bringing power back to their own when they could.

I haven't read many more articles this evening, but the headlines are all screaming "big business, stock market, and the rest of the party are livid with Trump" for possibly handing their various elections to the Dems on a platter.  I'm not predicting that'll be the outcome, but that appears to be the fear from the last 24 hours.  As others pointed out, he's had not the slightest care that his shoot first and ask questions never has put the entire party on the defensive this year, and the last week has made the situation even more precarious.  He got the White House sick, the inner circle of the DoD is on quarantine, flaunts his royal medical treatment and suggests he must be superhuman, and now is explicitly holding the economy hostage to his reelection campaign. His rhetoric was supportive of a bipartisan stimulus barely a week ago, and suddenly he wants to crash the whole thing and instructs McConnell "fuck everything else, just get me my damn judge."

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4689 on: October 07, 2020, 07:30:16 AM »
I think I tend to focus so much on what Trump's doing and what his impact is on the Presidential election, that I tend to forget the effect he has down ballot. There are so many reliably red states where Biden leads, and Senate candidates are in competitive races, that it seems that Trump is dragging those down-ballot races in the wrong direction. With many rank and file Republicans falling in line, it seems that they're putting their own re-election races in jeopardy and I could easily see Dems re-taking the Senate with a few key flips. The Trump ship is sinking...and he's taking everyone down with him

They're in a tough spot.  The majority of the country doesn't like the ideas they're selling or the person who they're supporting . . . but overwhelmingly the Republican base loves everything Trump does and stands for.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4690 on: October 07, 2020, 07:39:04 AM »
But that's by definition: the Republican party has been re-made into a smaller Republican party in which what you think about Trump has become the only criterion for membership.

That party has several structural advantages that allow it to maintain power out of proportion to its size. Perhaps that is the real outrage, not the sideshow of things Trump is doing?

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4691 on: October 07, 2020, 07:41:35 AM »
The structural problem that grants Republicans excessive power is part of what has driven the US further and further to the right over the past 50 years.  Trump certainly wouldn't be able to keep his sideshow going without it.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4692 on: October 07, 2020, 07:42:57 AM »
This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?

The GOP MIGHT pass a stimulus package while the Dems will certainly pass a stimulus package. Who in their right mind thinks a Trump promise is worth a nickel at this point?

Biden: “Make no mistake: if you are out of work, if your business is closed, if your child’s school is shut down, if you are seeing layoffs in your community, Donald Trump decided today that none of that — none of it — matters to him. There will be no help from Washington for the foreseeable future. Instead, he wants the Senate to use its time to confirm his Supreme Court Justice nominee before the election, in a mad dash to make sure that the Court takes away your health care coverage as quickly as possible.”

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4693 on: October 07, 2020, 07:48:44 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Out of my head only German video from a regular TV show that so far has won every lawsuit about incorrectness/libel. (The show "Die Anstalt" is officially satire, but they are more investigative journalism than most newspaper.)

Quote
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

No, there were allegations. Charges, however, were not, according to Wikipedia. Most likely because of lack of evidence, since even the women said that the sex started in mutual agreement. What happened during it...
It is possible the accusations are correct, but the timing and irregularities around them make it highly suspicious. That is why I wrote what I did - it looks like made up to slander Assange.

And if Assange had traveled to e.g. Sweden (and yes, there has been illegal stuff been done there because of US pressure) he would have faced deportation to the US to at least lifelong sentence.
And I would not have counted on the promise of "no death sentence" from a country which has a special law allowing it to invade a EU city if an international court there dares to go after a US soldier for war crimes (the so-called Den Hague Law).

If the US did not kill him they'd probably do to him what they did to Chelsea Manning. Stripped naked in years long solitary confinement until it makes a person want to kill them self. Also - see Gitmo.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4694 on: October 07, 2020, 08:29:22 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Out of my head only German video from a regular TV show that so far has won every lawsuit about incorrectness/libel. (The show "Die Anstalt" is officially satire, but they are more investigative journalism than most newspaper.)

Quote
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

No, there were allegations. Charges, however, were not, according to Wikipedia. Most likely because of lack of evidence, since even the women said that the sex started in mutual agreement. What happened during it...
It is possible the accusations are correct, but the timing and irregularities around them make it highly suspicious. That is why I wrote what I did - it looks like made up to slander Assange.

And if Assange had traveled to e.g. Sweden (and yes, there has been illegal stuff been done there because of US pressure) he would have faced deportation to the US to at least lifelong sentence.
And I would not have counted on the promise of "no death sentence" from a country which has a special law allowing it to invade a EU city if an international court there dares to go after a US soldier for war crimes (the so-called Den Hague Law).

If the US did not kill him they'd probably do to him what they did to Chelsea Manning. Stripped naked in years long solitary confinement until it makes a person want to kill them self. Also - see Gitmo.
If the USA did kill someone deported from Europe after promising not to do that there would never be another deportation from Europe to the USA ever again.   It would quite likely end diplomatic relationships too, at least for a while.

The fucked-up state of your judicial and prison systems is something else, of course.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4695 on: October 07, 2020, 08:36:00 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Out of my head only German video from a regular TV show that so far has won every lawsuit about incorrectness/libel. (The show "Die Anstalt" is officially satire, but they are more investigative journalism than most newspaper.)

Quote
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

No, there were allegations. Charges, however, were not, according to Wikipedia. Most likely because of lack of evidence, since even the women said that the sex started in mutual agreement. What happened during it...
It is possible the accusations are correct, but the timing and irregularities around them make it highly suspicious. That is why I wrote what I did - it looks like made up to slander Assange.

And if Assange had traveled to e.g. Sweden (and yes, there has been illegal stuff been done there because of US pressure) he would have faced deportation to the US to at least lifelong sentence.
And I would not have counted on the promise of "no death sentence" from a country which has a special law allowing it to invade a EU city if an international court there dares to go after a US soldier for war crimes (the so-called Den Hague Law).

If the US did not kill him they'd probably do to him what they did to Chelsea Manning. Stripped naked in years long solitary confinement until it makes a person want to kill them self. Also - see Gitmo.
If the USA did kill someone deported from Europe after promising not to do that there would never be another deportation from Europe to the USA ever again.   It would quite likely end diplomatic relationships too, at least for a while.

The fucked-up state of your judicial and prison systems is something else, of course.

The discussion is still conflating two different issues here.  The US's treatment of Assange and Assange's own actions and motives.
The conduct of one does not excuse the actions of the other (in whichever order you care to put it).

wenchsenior

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4696 on: October 07, 2020, 08:40:46 AM »
This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?

The GOP MIGHT pass a stimulus package while the Dems will certainly pass a stimulus package. Who in their right mind thinks a Trump promise is worth a nickel at this point?

Biden: “Make no mistake: if you are out of work, if your business is closed, if your child’s school is shut down, if you are seeing layoffs in your community, Donald Trump decided today that none of that — none of it — matters to him. There will be no help from Washington for the foreseeable future. Instead, he wants the Senate to use its time to confirm his Supreme Court Justice nominee before the election, in a mad dash to make sure that the Court takes away your health care coverage as quickly as possible.”

Never mind. Trump has apparently changed his mind again about passing a stimulus package.  Now he wants to pass something ASAP.  How awkward for McConnell.   The mood swings must have swung the other way...

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4697 on: October 07, 2020, 08:51:16 AM »
This one irks me personally...

The President  pressed unsuccessfully to work in the Oval Office and make a national address, despite spending three nights in the hospital after testing positive for the virus, and being currently infectious. He is currently 'quarantined' in the executive residence of the WH, a four-story mansion with half a dozen bedrooms, staffed kitchen and more than a dozen other private rooms.

Screw him!! Like so many of us, I've been working at my kitchen table for months, but Trump isn't ok staying put and working from the executive mansion in a socially responsible way.

There's no reason why he needs to be in the Oval office, other than for his own image and ego.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4698 on: October 07, 2020, 09:07:25 AM »
Quote
- Snip -

I haven't read many more articles this evening, but the headlines are all screaming "big business, stock market, and the rest of the party are livid with Trump" for possibly handing their various elections to the Dems on a platter.  I'm not predicting that'll be the outcome, but that appears to be the fear from the last 24 hours.  As others pointed out, he's had not the slightest care that his shoot first and ask questions never has put the entire party on the defensive this year, and the last week has made the situation even more precarious.  He got the White House sick, the inner circle of the DoD is on quarantine, flaunts his royal medical treatment and suggests he must be superhuman, and now is explicitly holding the economy hostage to his reelection campaign. His rhetoric was supportive of a bipartisan stimulus barely a week ago, and suddenly he wants to crash the whole thing and instructs McConnell "fuck everything else, just get me my damn judge."

The big irony in all of this is that many Republican supporters tell me that 'Dems just want to burn it all down'.  That is their reason for never even considering voting Democrat.  They point to the riots and looters, immigrants, and all sorts of shadowy fearmongering which has no effect on their daily life as proof.  Then they are confronted with all this crap that actually affects them and they shrug it off.  Even so far as to say, everyone's going to get the virus anyway, and, the economy would be great if it weren't for the China virus.  They just don't seem to be able to reconcile their world view with present reality.

Tucker Carlson was able to get away with lies, libel, and slander because 'he speaks in such hyperbole that no one would be expected to believe what he says'.  Um, have you met the people that watch his show?
Quote
Just read U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil's opinion, leaning heavily on the arguments of Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "

She wrote: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive(s) with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes."

Vyskocil, an appointee of President Trump's, added, "Whether the Court frames Mr. Carlson's statements as 'exaggeration,' 'non-literal commentary,' or simply bloviating for his audience, the conclusion remains the same — the statements are not actionable."

Vyskocil's ruling last week, dismissing a slander lawsuit filed against Carlson, was a win for Fox, First Amendment principles and the media more generally, as Fox News itself maintains.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4699 on: October 07, 2020, 09:51:57 AM »
This one irks me personally...

The President  pressed unsuccessfully to work in the Oval Office and make a national address, despite spending three nights in the hospital after testing positive for the virus, and being currently infectious. He is currently 'quarantined' in the executive residence of the WH, a four-story mansion with half a dozen bedrooms, staffed kitchen and more than a dozen other private rooms.

Screw him!! Like so many of us, I've been working at my kitchen table for months, but Trump isn't ok staying put and working from the executive mansion in a socially responsible way.

There's no reason why he needs to be in the Oval office, other than for his own image and ego.

Remember when Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau tested positive and the PM and his kids were in quarantine in the Rideau Hall cottage?  Food was left at the door and he did press conferences outside with a good distance between himself and the press.

I know that globally the Prime Minister of Canada is not as important as the President of the US, but for us he is our most important government person, and he led by example.  Hard to argue about self-isolation when your PM did it, was PM and Daddy.