Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681601 times)

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4650 on: October 06, 2020, 04:08:11 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
My take?  Trump needs votes between now and Nov 3rd.
A promise to give “big Covid paychecks!” Before November will at appeal to some struggling voters who can’t wait for the end of November for the Dems to come into the majority 2.5 months later.

Basically a ham handed threat. Re-elect me or you might wait another 10 weeks for Uncle Sam to help

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4651 on: October 06, 2020, 04:23:32 PM »
When I was little I used to thank God for getting my Irish ancestors out of Ireland.  Now I thank God that my ancestors emigrated to Canada.  Except for the ones who did emigrate to the 13 colonies, and then took refuge in New Brunswick at the end of the rebellion.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4652 on: October 06, 2020, 04:38:17 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
My take?  Trump needs votes between now and Nov 3rd.
A promise to give “big Covid paychecks!” Before November will at appeal to some struggling voters who can’t wait for the end of November for the Dems to come into the majority 2.5 months later.

Basically a ham handed threat. Re-elect me or you might wait another 10 weeks for Uncle Sam to help

And the second-string press secretary immediately said it was Pelosi's fault and Trump saying she was negotiating in bad faith.  The House passed their version days ago.  Your bestest buddy Mitch has been dragging his feet. There's nothing to negotiate at this moment.

Update: Pelosi delayed that vote. I swear I read that it happened.  Trump amended his earlier tweet that he'll sign a bill that is just stimulus checks, an airline bailout, and some paycheck protections, but nothing for those "high crime Democrat states." Apparently we have states in the country that are 100% Democrat. Who knew.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 01:36:02 AM by Travis »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4653 on: October 06, 2020, 05:44:48 PM »
So apparently Stephen Miller has tested positive for covid. I suspect the correct medical diagnosis is that the covid viruses caught a case of Stephen Miller and are not happy about the situation.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4654 on: October 06, 2020, 06:18:00 PM »
I was just reading John Scalzi's blog (https://whatever.scalzi.com/) and would recommend his October 6 post.  He had a fair bit to say about Biden and Trump, but you have to love this line.

Trump "is careening through the White House, pumped up on steroids and experimental drugs, shedding viruses like a white cat sheds on a black shirt"

No wonder his books sell so well, he has a way with words.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4655 on: October 06, 2020, 06:45:29 PM »
So apparently Stephen Miller has tested positive for covid. I suspect the correct medical diagnosis is that the covid viruses caught a case of Stephen Miller and are not happy about the situation.

I actually feel sorry for those coronavirus strands...

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4656 on: October 06, 2020, 07:22:49 PM »
I was just reading John Scalzi's blog (https://whatever.scalzi.com/) and would recommend his October 6 post.  He had a fair bit to say about Biden and Trump, but you have to love this line.

Trump "is careening through the White House, pumped up on steroids and experimental drugs, shedding viruses like a white cat sheds on a black shirt"

No wonder his books sell so well, he has a way with words.

On a more serious point though, one of the side effects of dexamethasone is that it may cause mood swings.  After all these conspiracy theories of Biden taking PED's - Trump is actually on drugs while running the country.  Pelosi also brought it up

Buckle up folks!  This week ain't over yet

turketron

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4657 on: October 06, 2020, 08:15:37 PM »
So apparently Stephen Miller has tested positive for covid.

It's jumped species!

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4658 on: October 06, 2020, 08:25:46 PM »
So apparently Stephen Miller has tested positive for covid.

It's jumped species!

Cats catch it, I saw someplace some cows (I think) caught it, why shouldn't Stephen Miller catch it?

Hmmm, when I typed Stephen, my spell check came up with Harper.  That is a sobering fact.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4659 on: October 06, 2020, 08:40:29 PM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?

I think enough time could pass that it could have a major impact.

If Trump withholds stimulus and wins they could rush to pass something right after the election

If Biden wins the republicans withhold aid and it will be after Biden takes power (plus some time to vote and get it through) before they could pass something.


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OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4660 on: October 06, 2020, 10:16:55 PM »
This thread is getting to be Trump outrage of the hour.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4661 on: October 07, 2020, 04:02:06 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Out of my head only German video from a regular TV show that so far has won every lawsuit about incorrectness/libel. (The show "Die Anstalt" is officially satire, but they are more investigative journalism than most newspaper.)

Quote
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

No, there were allegations. Charges, however, were not, according to Wikipedia. Most likely because of lack of evidence, since even the women said that the sex started in mutual agreement. What happened during it...
It is possible the accusations are correct, but the timing and irregularities around them make it highly suspicious. That is why I wrote what I did - it looks like made up to slander Assange.

And if Assange had traveled to e.g. Sweden (and yes, there has been illegal stuff been done there because of US pressure) he would have faced deportation to the US to at least lifelong sentence.
And I would not have counted on the promise of "no death sentence" from a country which has a special law allowing it to invade a EU city if an international court there dares to go after a US soldier for war crimes (the so-called Den Hague Law).

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4662 on: October 07, 2020, 04:07:15 AM »
This thread is getting to be Trump outrage of the hour.

Sadly, I think it’s just going to get worse. Trump’s MO when he’s down is to do one outrageous thing after another to keep all the focus on him, good or bad.  There’s 4 weeks left, so I expect daily tweet-storms, provocative comments, questionable legal activity and a constant barrage of false accusations.

I’ve been dead serious that I want all future presidents to be predictable and boring.  Showmen (or women) may drive news cycles but Trump’s presidency has highlighted how detrimental it can be to everything from foreign policy to people’s faith in government.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4663 on: October 07, 2020, 05:02:15 AM »
If you really want a good understanding of the state of politics consider Kentucky, where Moscow Mitch is from. They are the hardest hit states in terms of unemployment due to Covid. Yet Mitch when asked about Trump's decision to stop stimulus talks, was fully on board giving a big fat middle finger to everyone including his own state. Yet he is very likely to be elected to the Senate for the 200th year. 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 05:10:39 AM by MasterStache »

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4664 on: October 07, 2020, 05:45:13 AM »

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4665 on: October 07, 2020, 06:07:02 AM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
My take?  Trump needs votes between now and Nov 3rd.
A promise to give “big Covid paychecks!” Before November will at appeal to some struggling voters who can’t wait for the end of November for the Dems to come into the majority 2.5 months later.

Basically a ham handed threat. Re-elect me or you might wait another 10 weeks for Uncle Sam to help

And the second-string press secretary immediately said it was Pelosi's fault and Trump saying she was negotiating in bad faith.  The House passed their version days ago.  Your bestest buddy Mitch has been dragging his feet. There's nothing to negotiate at this moment.

Update: Pelosi delayed that vote. I swear I read that it happened.  Trump amended his earlier tweet that he'll sign a bill that is just stimulus checks, an airline bailout, and some paycheck protections, but nothing for those "high crime Democrat states." Apparently we have states in the country that are 100% Democrat. Who knew.

What Trump is doing doesn't make sense for Trump. It makes a lot of sense for McConnell, who has to shepherd some purple state Senators through an election to keep his majority. I wonder what McConnell did to manage Trump so well here?

I believe that when historians are several decades removed, they'll refer to my lifetime as the Reagan-Gingrich-McConnell era, in which the culture of small government was refreshed by Reagan, then maintained by Gingrich and McConnell successfully thwarting Democratic Presidents when necessary, and bringing power back to their own when they could.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 06:10:38 AM by talltexan »

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4666 on: October 07, 2020, 06:13:30 AM »
Here’s voter intimidation in action, folks. If you see voters in your communities being harassed by these thugs, call the Election Protection coalition hotline at 866-OUR-VOTE.

Reuters: Cellphones in hand, 'Army for Trump' readies poll watching operation

Quote
Republicans are mobilizing thousands of volunteers to watch early voting sites and ballot drop boxes leading up to November’s election, part of an effort to find evidence to back up President Donald Trump’s unsubstantiated complaints about widespread voter fraud.

——————————

Poll watching by partisan observers is a normal feature in U.S. elections that dates back to the 18th century and is subject to various state laws and local rules.

Still, this year’s operation by the Trump campaign is highly unusual, voting rights advocates say, both in its focus on early voting and in its emphasis on finding evidence to support baseless assertions by the president and his supporters that Democrats plan to flood the system with phony mail ballots to steal the election.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4667 on: October 07, 2020, 06:15:31 AM »
If you really want a good understanding of the state of politics consider Kentucky, where Moscow Mitch is from. They are the hardest hit states in terms of unemployment due to Covid. Yet Mitch when asked about Trump's decision to stop stimulus talks, was fully on board giving a big fat middle finger to everyone including his own state. Yet he is very likely to be elected to the Senate for the 200th year.
The Senate Republicans have been beyond Mitch's control on legislative matters since Trump was elected: without a President who is interested and knowledgeable in the legislative process Mitch is completely unable to marshall any sort of majority for serious legislation such as a Health Care Bill or an Infrastructure Bill.  A significant part of why he's been concentrating on judicial appointments is because that's all he can do.  The earlier Covid Bills got through on overwhelming Democratic support and the less irrational part of the Republicans, but at this point Republican senators are staring down the barrel and all bets are off.

McConnell won his last Senate race with 56% of the vote (having got only 60% in his primary) and he's currently polling 48% with McGrath 7% behind.  He's losing the love, even in Kentucky.

brandon1827

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4668 on: October 07, 2020, 07:00:48 AM »
I think I tend to focus so much on what Trump's doing and what his impact is on the Presidential election, that I tend to forget the effect he has down ballot. There are so many reliably red states where Biden leads, and Senate candidates are in competitive races, that it seems that Trump is dragging those down-ballot races in the wrong direction. With many rank and file Republicans falling in line, it seems that they're putting their own re-election races in jeopardy and I could easily see Dems re-taking the Senate with a few key flips. The Trump ship is sinking...and he's taking everyone down with him

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4669 on: October 07, 2020, 07:24:48 AM »
NPR News: Trump Halts Coronavirus Relief Talks Until After The Election

Quote
President Trump says he has ordered his representatives to stop talks with Democrats on a new round of COVID-19 aid until after the election.

In a series of tweets, Trump said he has rejected Democrats' latest stimulus proposal because House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "is not negotiating in good faith."

You missed the best quote:
"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

Trump is now openly holding the economy and the lives of Americans hostage in a desperate attempt to win the election.

This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?
My take?  Trump needs votes between now and Nov 3rd.
A promise to give “big Covid paychecks!” Before November will at appeal to some struggling voters who can’t wait for the end of November for the Dems to come into the majority 2.5 months later.

Basically a ham handed threat. Re-elect me or you might wait another 10 weeks for Uncle Sam to help

And the second-string press secretary immediately said it was Pelosi's fault and Trump saying she was negotiating in bad faith.  The House passed their version days ago.  Your bestest buddy Mitch has been dragging his feet. There's nothing to negotiate at this moment.

Update: Pelosi delayed that vote. I swear I read that it happened.  Trump amended his earlier tweet that he'll sign a bill that is just stimulus checks, an airline bailout, and some paycheck protections, but nothing for those "high crime Democrat states." Apparently we have states in the country that are 100% Democrat. Who knew.

What Trump is doing doesn't make sense for Trump. It makes a lot of sense for McConnell, who has to shepherd some purple state Senators through an election to keep his majority. I wonder what McConnell did to manage Trump so well here?

I believe that when historians are several decades removed, they'll refer to my lifetime as the Reagan-Gingrich-McConnell era, in which the culture of small government was refreshed by Reagan, then maintained by Gingrich and McConnell successfully thwarting Democratic Presidents when necessary, and bringing power back to their own when they could.

I haven't read many more articles this evening, but the headlines are all screaming "big business, stock market, and the rest of the party are livid with Trump" for possibly handing their various elections to the Dems on a platter.  I'm not predicting that'll be the outcome, but that appears to be the fear from the last 24 hours.  As others pointed out, he's had not the slightest care that his shoot first and ask questions never has put the entire party on the defensive this year, and the last week has made the situation even more precarious.  He got the White House sick, the inner circle of the DoD is on quarantine, flaunts his royal medical treatment and suggests he must be superhuman, and now is explicitly holding the economy hostage to his reelection campaign. His rhetoric was supportive of a bipartisan stimulus barely a week ago, and suddenly he wants to crash the whole thing and instructs McConnell "fuck everything else, just get me my damn judge."

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4670 on: October 07, 2020, 07:30:16 AM »
I think I tend to focus so much on what Trump's doing and what his impact is on the Presidential election, that I tend to forget the effect he has down ballot. There are so many reliably red states where Biden leads, and Senate candidates are in competitive races, that it seems that Trump is dragging those down-ballot races in the wrong direction. With many rank and file Republicans falling in line, it seems that they're putting their own re-election races in jeopardy and I could easily see Dems re-taking the Senate with a few key flips. The Trump ship is sinking...and he's taking everyone down with him

They're in a tough spot.  The majority of the country doesn't like the ideas they're selling or the person who they're supporting . . . but overwhelmingly the Republican base loves everything Trump does and stands for.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4671 on: October 07, 2020, 07:39:04 AM »
But that's by definition: the Republican party has been re-made into a smaller Republican party in which what you think about Trump has become the only criterion for membership.

That party has several structural advantages that allow it to maintain power out of proportion to its size. Perhaps that is the real outrage, not the sideshow of things Trump is doing?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4672 on: October 07, 2020, 07:41:35 AM »
The structural problem that grants Republicans excessive power is part of what has driven the US further and further to the right over the past 50 years.  Trump certainly wouldn't be able to keep his sideshow going without it.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4673 on: October 07, 2020, 07:42:57 AM »
This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?

The GOP MIGHT pass a stimulus package while the Dems will certainly pass a stimulus package. Who in their right mind thinks a Trump promise is worth a nickel at this point?

Biden: “Make no mistake: if you are out of work, if your business is closed, if your child’s school is shut down, if you are seeing layoffs in your community, Donald Trump decided today that none of that — none of it — matters to him. There will be no help from Washington for the foreseeable future. Instead, he wants the Senate to use its time to confirm his Supreme Court Justice nominee before the election, in a mad dash to make sure that the Court takes away your health care coverage as quickly as possible.”

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4674 on: October 07, 2020, 07:48:44 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Out of my head only German video from a regular TV show that so far has won every lawsuit about incorrectness/libel. (The show "Die Anstalt" is officially satire, but they are more investigative journalism than most newspaper.)

Quote
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

No, there were allegations. Charges, however, were not, according to Wikipedia. Most likely because of lack of evidence, since even the women said that the sex started in mutual agreement. What happened during it...
It is possible the accusations are correct, but the timing and irregularities around them make it highly suspicious. That is why I wrote what I did - it looks like made up to slander Assange.

And if Assange had traveled to e.g. Sweden (and yes, there has been illegal stuff been done there because of US pressure) he would have faced deportation to the US to at least lifelong sentence.
And I would not have counted on the promise of "no death sentence" from a country which has a special law allowing it to invade a EU city if an international court there dares to go after a US soldier for war crimes (the so-called Den Hague Law).

If the US did not kill him they'd probably do to him what they did to Chelsea Manning. Stripped naked in years long solitary confinement until it makes a person want to kill them self. Also - see Gitmo.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4675 on: October 07, 2020, 08:29:22 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Out of my head only German video from a regular TV show that so far has won every lawsuit about incorrectness/libel. (The show "Die Anstalt" is officially satire, but they are more investigative journalism than most newspaper.)

Quote
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

No, there were allegations. Charges, however, were not, according to Wikipedia. Most likely because of lack of evidence, since even the women said that the sex started in mutual agreement. What happened during it...
It is possible the accusations are correct, but the timing and irregularities around them make it highly suspicious. That is why I wrote what I did - it looks like made up to slander Assange.

And if Assange had traveled to e.g. Sweden (and yes, there has been illegal stuff been done there because of US pressure) he would have faced deportation to the US to at least lifelong sentence.
And I would not have counted on the promise of "no death sentence" from a country which has a special law allowing it to invade a EU city if an international court there dares to go after a US soldier for war crimes (the so-called Den Hague Law).

If the US did not kill him they'd probably do to him what they did to Chelsea Manning. Stripped naked in years long solitary confinement until it makes a person want to kill them self. Also - see Gitmo.
If the USA did kill someone deported from Europe after promising not to do that there would never be another deportation from Europe to the USA ever again.   It would quite likely end diplomatic relationships too, at least for a while.

The fucked-up state of your judicial and prison systems is something else, of course.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4676 on: October 07, 2020, 08:36:00 AM »
While I agree that the actions made towards Assange deplorable, how he has acted is critical as well.  Whereas Snowden did everything he could to ensure that classified and personal information was protected when revealing illegal government activity to authorities, Assange took no such precautions.
That is another smear the messenger point.
In fact it was Assange that begged to not release one of the involved jourmalists that a certain headline was the passphrase for the full file that was already out in the while.
The Journalist said he would not. And did it.
Nothing I have seen or read supports this.  Do you have some sources you care to share?
It's still not clear to me why collection release of personal and non-incriminating communications should be considered a good thing.  Nor what safeguards Assange took.
Out of my head only German video from a regular TV show that so far has won every lawsuit about incorrectness/libel. (The show "Die Anstalt" is officially satire, but they are more investigative journalism than most newspaper.)

Quote
The accusations of rape and sexual assault were "mostly hot air"?  Oh please.  I guess you think that the Swedish police and Swedish courts and UK police and UK courts all worked together to manufacture rape and assault charges to please the US goverment?  I mean, wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there on fuck all evidence.  I guess the Me Too movement has passed you by as well, so a word in your ear: credible rape and assault accusations by women against men need to be taken seriously.

No, there were allegations. Charges, however, were not, according to Wikipedia. Most likely because of lack of evidence, since even the women said that the sex started in mutual agreement. What happened during it...
It is possible the accusations are correct, but the timing and irregularities around them make it highly suspicious. That is why I wrote what I did - it looks like made up to slander Assange.

And if Assange had traveled to e.g. Sweden (and yes, there has been illegal stuff been done there because of US pressure) he would have faced deportation to the US to at least lifelong sentence.
And I would not have counted on the promise of "no death sentence" from a country which has a special law allowing it to invade a EU city if an international court there dares to go after a US soldier for war crimes (the so-called Den Hague Law).

If the US did not kill him they'd probably do to him what they did to Chelsea Manning. Stripped naked in years long solitary confinement until it makes a person want to kill them self. Also - see Gitmo.
If the USA did kill someone deported from Europe after promising not to do that there would never be another deportation from Europe to the USA ever again.   It would quite likely end diplomatic relationships too, at least for a while.

The fucked-up state of your judicial and prison systems is something else, of course.

The discussion is still conflating two different issues here.  The US's treatment of Assange and Assange's own actions and motives.
The conduct of one does not excuse the actions of the other (in whichever order you care to put it).

wenchsenior

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4677 on: October 07, 2020, 08:40:46 AM »
This makes absolutely NO SENSE b/c if the Dems take power, they will certainly ALSO pass a stimulus package...they are the ones who have been pushing for the latest one...  He seems to be trying to convey the concept of "Elect me or there will be no stimulus package!" but that's clearly wrong (unless the GOP holds the Senate, which is unlikely if Biden wins). I don't get why Trump think this tactic helps his long term strategy?

The GOP MIGHT pass a stimulus package while the Dems will certainly pass a stimulus package. Who in their right mind thinks a Trump promise is worth a nickel at this point?

Biden: “Make no mistake: if you are out of work, if your business is closed, if your child’s school is shut down, if you are seeing layoffs in your community, Donald Trump decided today that none of that — none of it — matters to him. There will be no help from Washington for the foreseeable future. Instead, he wants the Senate to use its time to confirm his Supreme Court Justice nominee before the election, in a mad dash to make sure that the Court takes away your health care coverage as quickly as possible.”

Never mind. Trump has apparently changed his mind again about passing a stimulus package.  Now he wants to pass something ASAP.  How awkward for McConnell.   The mood swings must have swung the other way...

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4678 on: October 07, 2020, 08:51:16 AM »
This one irks me personally...

The President  pressed unsuccessfully to work in the Oval Office and make a national address, despite spending three nights in the hospital after testing positive for the virus, and being currently infectious. He is currently 'quarantined' in the executive residence of the WH, a four-story mansion with half a dozen bedrooms, staffed kitchen and more than a dozen other private rooms.

Screw him!! Like so many of us, I've been working at my kitchen table for months, but Trump isn't ok staying put and working from the executive mansion in a socially responsible way.

There's no reason why he needs to be in the Oval office, other than for his own image and ego.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4679 on: October 07, 2020, 09:07:25 AM »
Quote
- Snip -

I haven't read many more articles this evening, but the headlines are all screaming "big business, stock market, and the rest of the party are livid with Trump" for possibly handing their various elections to the Dems on a platter.  I'm not predicting that'll be the outcome, but that appears to be the fear from the last 24 hours.  As others pointed out, he's had not the slightest care that his shoot first and ask questions never has put the entire party on the defensive this year, and the last week has made the situation even more precarious.  He got the White House sick, the inner circle of the DoD is on quarantine, flaunts his royal medical treatment and suggests he must be superhuman, and now is explicitly holding the economy hostage to his reelection campaign. His rhetoric was supportive of a bipartisan stimulus barely a week ago, and suddenly he wants to crash the whole thing and instructs McConnell "fuck everything else, just get me my damn judge."

The big irony in all of this is that many Republican supporters tell me that 'Dems just want to burn it all down'.  That is their reason for never even considering voting Democrat.  They point to the riots and looters, immigrants, and all sorts of shadowy fearmongering which has no effect on their daily life as proof.  Then they are confronted with all this crap that actually affects them and they shrug it off.  Even so far as to say, everyone's going to get the virus anyway, and, the economy would be great if it weren't for the China virus.  They just don't seem to be able to reconcile their world view with present reality.

Tucker Carlson was able to get away with lies, libel, and slander because 'he speaks in such hyperbole that no one would be expected to believe what he says'.  Um, have you met the people that watch his show?
Quote
Just read U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil's opinion, leaning heavily on the arguments of Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "

She wrote: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive(s) with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes."

Vyskocil, an appointee of President Trump's, added, "Whether the Court frames Mr. Carlson's statements as 'exaggeration,' 'non-literal commentary,' or simply bloviating for his audience, the conclusion remains the same — the statements are not actionable."

Vyskocil's ruling last week, dismissing a slander lawsuit filed against Carlson, was a win for Fox, First Amendment principles and the media more generally, as Fox News itself maintains.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4680 on: October 07, 2020, 09:51:57 AM »
This one irks me personally...

The President  pressed unsuccessfully to work in the Oval Office and make a national address, despite spending three nights in the hospital after testing positive for the virus, and being currently infectious. He is currently 'quarantined' in the executive residence of the WH, a four-story mansion with half a dozen bedrooms, staffed kitchen and more than a dozen other private rooms.

Screw him!! Like so many of us, I've been working at my kitchen table for months, but Trump isn't ok staying put and working from the executive mansion in a socially responsible way.

There's no reason why he needs to be in the Oval office, other than for his own image and ego.

Remember when Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau tested positive and the PM and his kids were in quarantine in the Rideau Hall cottage?  Food was left at the door and he did press conferences outside with a good distance between himself and the press.

I know that globally the Prime Minister of Canada is not as important as the President of the US, but for us he is our most important government person, and he led by example.  Hard to argue about self-isolation when your PM did it, was PM and Daddy.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4681 on: October 07, 2020, 09:53:37 AM »
I’ve been dead serious that I want all future presidents to be predictable and boring.
Sorry, Angela Merkel has already said that she won't run for an office again.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4682 on: October 07, 2020, 10:20:58 AM »
This one irks me personally...

The President  pressed unsuccessfully to work in the Oval Office and make a national address, despite spending three nights in the hospital after testing positive for the virus, and being currently infectious. He is currently 'quarantined' in the executive residence of the WH, a four-story mansion with half a dozen bedrooms, staffed kitchen and more than a dozen other private rooms.

Screw him!! Like so many of us, I've been working at my kitchen table for months, but Trump isn't ok staying put and working from the executive mansion in a socially responsible way.

There's no reason why he needs to be in the Oval office, other than for his own image and ego.

Remember when Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau tested positive and the PM and his kids were in quarantine in the Rideau Hall cottage?  Food was left at the door and he did press conferences outside with a good distance between himself and the press.

I know that globally the Prime Minister of Canada is not as important as the President of the US, but for us he is our most important government person, and he led by example.  Hard to argue about self-isolation when your PM did it, was PM and Daddy.

sigh... all the political "controversy' surrounding Justin, it seems positively more tranquil up there right now.  Even 'le bloc' seems tame in comparison.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4683 on: October 07, 2020, 10:53:22 AM »
President's doctor is on the record Monday afternoon as saying he doesn't believe he's currently shedding the virus.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4684 on: October 07, 2020, 11:02:03 AM »
The discussion is still conflating two different issues here.  The US's treatment of Assange and Assange's own actions and motives.
The conduct of one does not excuse the actions of the other (in whichever order you care to put it).

If they want to jail Assange - that's one thing. I don't know all the particulars of his crimes - just the high points.

Doing what they did to Manning was uncalled for.

Just Joe

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4685 on: October 07, 2020, 11:09:50 AM »
President's doctor is on the record Monday afternoon as saying he doesn't believe he's currently shedding the virus.

Time to test the president again? I'm not trusting these doctors at the moment. Politics seems to have replaced facts.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4686 on: October 07, 2020, 11:24:14 AM »
President's doctor is on the record Monday afternoon as saying he doesn't believe he's currently shedding the virus.
The President's doctor has made it perfectly clear that everything he says is said under orders from Trump.  So it is exactly as factual and reliable as the same words coming directly from Trump.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4687 on: October 07, 2020, 11:40:11 AM »
President's doctor is on the record Monday afternoon as saying he doesn't believe he's currently shedding the virus.

It's worth pointing out the president's doctor is an osteopath. Not a virologist.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4688 on: October 07, 2020, 11:44:49 AM »
President's doctor is on the record Monday afternoon as saying he doesn't believe he's currently shedding the virus.

As cagey as ever, Conley using words like 'believe' gives him plausible deniability if people in Trump's orbit are mysteriously falling ill because, low and behold, Trump was still contagious.  Plenty of fun stuff being written about how even Trump's doctors have become politicized - The Complicit Physician

Also, this (Kris kinda beat me to it...)
Quote
The man overseeing and explaining the president's treatment is also reportedly the first physician to a sitting president to hold a doctorate of osteopathy rather than being an MD, or Doctor of Medicine.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4689 on: October 07, 2020, 12:15:27 PM »
President's doctor is on the record Monday afternoon as saying he doesn't believe he's currently shedding the virus.
The President's doctor has made it perfectly clear that everything he says is said under orders from Trump.  So it is exactly as factual and reliable as the same words coming directly from Trump.

Suddenly the problem comes into focus.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4690 on: October 07, 2020, 12:30:23 PM »
President's doctor is on the record Monday afternoon as saying he doesn't believe he's currently shedding the virus.

It's worth pointing out the president's doctor is an osteopath. Not a virologist.

Osteopathy is steeped in pseudoscientific garbage, so it makes sense that Trump (hating both knowledge and science) would be consulting one.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4691 on: October 07, 2020, 12:55:08 PM »
Let's not forget that another ruling has said that Trump can't hide his tax returns from the DA. I suspect that the NYT story makes the prosecutor's case a bit easier to make.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4692 on: October 07, 2020, 01:12:58 PM »
Let's not forget that another ruling has said that Trump can't hide his tax returns from the DA. I suspect that the NYT story makes the prosecutor's case a bit easier to make.
On to SCOTUS

Honestly, I feel like DJT's just trying to run out the clock here.  Eventually his argument will become "well DJT is now a private citizen, so his tax returns have no bearing on potential COIs while he was president":.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4693 on: October 07, 2020, 01:31:32 PM »
President's doctor is on the record Monday afternoon as saying he doesn't believe he's currently shedding the virus.

What does this even mean? Is is based on some kind of evidence or just "belief".

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4694 on: October 07, 2020, 02:37:59 PM »
Back in 1907, 113 years ago, they were smart enough to forcefully quarantine Typhoid Mary. They understood she was a carrier of Typhoid. For her it was two different times she was quarantined and the last was for 23 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon

Trump only needs to be quarantined for a short period of time and he refuses. He is risking people's lives just as bad as if he had a weapon. Why isn't the law stepping in? They did in Typhoid Mary's case.

A person knowingly infecting others with HIV can lead to criminal prosecution.

Is Donald Trump above the law? This is very disturbing.




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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4695 on: October 07, 2020, 02:48:00 PM »
Is Donald Trump above the law? This is very disturbing.

Yes.  As long as Republicans in the senate are unwilling to discipline him, he is above the law according the the rules of the United States.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4696 on: October 07, 2020, 03:11:44 PM »
Trump's gone into a Twitter-rage today... remarkable even by his standards.

He's blathering about a debunked conspiracy theory that Obama and the 'deep state' used the intellegence agency to undermine his candidacy.


Quote
“Wow!!! NOW DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS, THE BIGGEST OF ALL POLITICAL SCANDALS (IN HISTORY)!!! BIDEN, OBAMA AND CROOKED HILLARY LED THIS TREASONOUS PLOT!!! BIDEN SHOULDN’T BE ALLOWED TO RUN - GOT CAUGHT!!!”
...
They went for a Coup. Almost destroyed our Country. You had the right President at the right moment. Current Voters, REMEMBER THIS WHEN YOU VOTE!
...
Taking too long. Media is in on it. A true scandal!
...
I have fully authorized the total Declassification of any & all documents pertaining to the single greatest political CRIME in American History, the Russia Hoax. Likewise, the Hillary Clinton Email Scandal. No redactions!
...


It goes on like this for quite a while...

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4697 on: October 07, 2020, 03:43:56 PM »
This one irks me personally...

The President  pressed unsuccessfully to work in the Oval Office and make a national address, despite spending three nights in the hospital after testing positive for the virus, and being currently infectious. He is currently 'quarantined' in the executive residence of the WH, a four-story mansion with half a dozen bedrooms, staffed kitchen and more than a dozen other private rooms.

Screw him!! Like so many of us, I've been working at my kitchen table for months, but Trump isn't ok staying put and working from the executive mansion in a socially responsible way.

There's no reason why he needs to be in the Oval office, other than for his own image and ego.

Remember when Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau tested positive and the PM and his kids were in quarantine in the Rideau Hall cottage?  Food was left at the door and he did press conferences outside with a good distance between himself and the press.

I know that globally the Prime Minister of Canada is not as important as the President of the US, but for us he is our most important government person, and he led by example.  Hard to argue about self-isolation when your PM did it, was PM and Daddy.

sigh... all the political "controversy' surrounding Justin, it seems positively more tranquil up there right now.  Even 'le bloc' seems tame in comparison.

I'll take little fusses over big fusses any day.  And he made it through the throne speech so no election for the moment.  Whew.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4698 on: October 07, 2020, 03:56:16 PM »
Just read a news story that Trump was working in the Oval Office today (he should be in quarantine) hard to imagine anyone with less regard for the health and safety of others that work there and the message it sends to the general populace.

I wish I could convince myself that it is only for a little longer but I have a bad feeling that he might win again.

Make sure you vote, call your friends / family and remind them to vote as well this has to end or we will be in for a world of hurt.


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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4699 on: October 07, 2020, 04:11:21 PM »
Just read a news story that Trump was working in the Oval Office today.

Without a mask no doubt. Every surface and the air of that room is likely covered with the virus.

President's doctor is on the record Monday afternoon as saying he doesn't believe he's currently shedding the virus.

What does this even mean? Is is based on some kind of evidence or just "belief".

Edit: 27 34 people within two degrees of separation of the President infected and counting. And the doc is dodging questions about the last time he tested negative. Him being infected up to a week before he announced it is getting more solid every day.  He lead off his brief showing a memo from the President saying "I feel great!" which apparently counts as a professional diagnosis now.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 04:29:55 AM by Travis »